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11 December 2013

Comments

Gregory

Life in the real world isn't Disneyland, Ben. Buy California chicken rather than Georgia imports, CalOSHA is all over the locals, but meatcutting has always been a nasty business and it may always be so.

Someday there could be robots to do it and there will be one more thing the underclasses won't be able to do to earn a living. The faster you increase labor costs, the faster that will happen. Would that make you happy?

Ben Emery

It seemed like when workers earned a living wage with benefits companies did fairly well so what makes you think labor accounts for more of the over cost today than it did 50 years ago? If it does, why?

fish

Don't worry George I have plenty more examples of fascist/ corporatist and authoritarian leanings and positions. I will try and post one a day for awhile until the idea hits home that outside of the American Revolution you take the side of authority almost every time.

George....I'd just admit that you're an "authoritarian" (your definition certainly isn't the same as Bens and I doubt Bens is within hand grenade range of Websters) so Ben can stand promethean, before the denizens of Nevada City and claim rhetorical victory over the vile authoritarian and his hated band of crime thinking minions!

It'll be a nice Christmas present.

Gregory

"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

Just because Ben thinks "authoritarian" means "ant-Ben" doesn't mean anyone should agree with him. One dictionary says it's
"favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, esp. that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom" and I don't see anyone making that case here, except maybe Ben.

Ben Emery

Greg and Fish,
Two sorry sacks indeed. Defending such policies that you would have lawsuits filed in a matter of minutes of the incident happening to yourselves. Greg threatens people with legal action if they hurt his feelings. And Fish is so courageous he doesn't use his real name. Imagine being talked to by law enforcement like this for no valid reason other than they can do without recourse. What would you do? According to your ridiculous defense of George's positions it sounds like you would thank the officer and encourage them to continue harassing you in the future if it meant your "safety".

excerpt from "Hunted and Hated"
"In the course of the two-minute recording, the officers give no legally valid reason for the stop, use racially charged language and threaten Alvin with violence. Early in the stop, one of the officers asks, “You want me to smack you?” When Alvin asks why he is being threatened with arrest, the other officer responds, “For being a fucking mutt.” Later in the stop, while holding Alvin’s arm behind his back, the first officer says, “Dude, I’m gonna break your fuckin’ arm, then I’m gonna punch you in the fuckin’ face.”

Gregory

Lawsuits from citizen to citizen is how torts are resolved, Ben, and a defamation is far more than "hurt feelings"; it's a lie that damages another person or persons. What you are asking for, over and over, is for some law to be put into place to criminalize what you don't like, everywhere you look.

That's authoritarianism, Ben style.

fish

Whose defending anything Ben? That I don't get as overwrought over these things as Nevada City's preeminent concern troll is your problem not mine. How bout it Ben....didja unpack your Invisble Knapsack today paleface?

What a ween!


Look Ben....yeah...over there in the corner....it's climate change...go get it!

fish

And Fish is so courageous he doesn't use his real name.

A student of history like the oh so intellectual Ben Emery should know that anonymous blogging/writing/commenting is a well established tradition. I mean if authoritarianism reigns I shouldn't have any fear of losing a job or having my home vandalized, or my family threatened by posting unpopular opinions and yet that's the lefts stock in trade. Just look at your fellow lefty Michael ....always cataloguing...always documenting....always threatening. Just as soon as I shed my current employment I'll be brave Ben....pinkie swear!

Until I can establish my own mountain lair I need to stay employed and let's be honest Ben, it's not easy to score a kush gig like driving the manure spreader......you ol 1 percenter you.

Gregory

Let's look at Ben logic

Here's audio of a stop and frisk from some activists that sure sounds like a couple of racist cops going way over the line....

Therefore, the whole stop and frisk program is racist and therefore must stop. After all, 9 of 10 murders are by people of color, and only one of ten people stopped and frisked are people of pallor. Must be racist.

That reminds me a bit of an old Dilbert cartoon my wife used teaching that Sierra College competency math course... the pointy haired boss was up in arms about 40% of his engineer's sick days being called in for Monday and Friday. Her question... "Why is that funny?"

Ben, when cops do bad things, that's a job for the courts that use the rules of evidence and the rights of the accused to get at the truth, and seek redress if the *FACTS* support it.

George Rebane

BenE 647pm - I was moot on Nelson Mandela's imprisonment during the Reagan years. All I knew then was that he was a self-avowed communist who was convicted for plotting the destruction of South Africa's infrastructure.

But that you consider support of federal border violation laws by illegal aliens a far rightwing excess will stand as a matter of record on these pages. Please do give us more such examples.

fish

....meanwhile on planet Emery....a world much like our own

A British sandwich shop owner offered this remark on Twitter: "My PC takes so long to shut down I've decided to call it Nelson Mandela." Poor taste? Yes. Illegal? The police thought so.

This is what happened next. The police came. They arrested him. They confiscated his computer. They fingerprinted him. They ran a DNA test. He was held at the police station for eight hours.

"Where is freedom of speech?" he asked. Missing in action. But it is a wonderful memory. It provided comfort for so many people in the West.

When British police arrest a man for a politically incorrect one-liner, the land of the Magna Carta, trial by jury, and common law has entered the Twilight Zone.

This illustrates North's law of bureaucracy: "Some bureaucrat will inevitably enforce an official rule to the point of imbecility."

Bill Tozer

Lawsuits, lawsuits, everywhere a lawsuit. Do this, don't do that, hey, can't you read the sign?

No, can't read cause it ain't in Spanish or Mong and I am a product of our public education system.

Lawsuits, lawsuits.

http://www.judicialhellholes.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/JudicialHellholes-2013.pdf

Ben Emery

George advocates disenfranchisement for those who do not meet his values of intelligence and reasoning for voting. Wanting others to live under the rule of law they do not participate in creating. Basically when coupled with other ideas he advocates only those who can afford education would be eligible to vote, we tried a defacto version of these ideas before and it produced human beings as property, women included as property for all intents and purposes. Why is it the right wing ideologues on this blog have a tendency to fall right in line with US South on so many issues? It is another example of authoritarian tendency of this blog.

http://www.umich.edu/~lawrace/disenfranchise1.htm

Techniques of Direct Disenfranchisement, 1880-1965

"Direct" disenfranchisement refers to actions that explicitly prevent people from voting or having their votes counted, as opposed to "indirect" techniques, which attempt to prevent people's votes from having an impact on political outcomes (e.g., gerrymandering, ballot box stuffing, stripping elected officials of their powers).

The 15th Amendment prohibited explicit disenfranchisement on the basis of race or prior enslavement. So Southern states devised an array of alternative techniques designed to disenfranchise blacks and, to a lesser extent, poor whites. There were three broad, overlapping phases of the disenfranchisement process. From 1868-1888, the principal techniques of disenfranchisement were illegal, based on violence and massive fraud in the vote counting process. Starting in 1877, when Georgia passed the cumulative poll tax, states implemented statutory methods of disenfranchisement. From 1888-1908, states entrenched these legal techniques in their constitutions. Here we explore the principal means of direct disenfranchisement, and the attempts to use Federal law to prevent disenfranchisement, through 1965, when the Voting Rights Act was passed. For the most part, until the advent of the Civil Rights Movement in the 20th c., the Supreme Court acquiesced in the methods used to disenfranchise blacks by gutting the Federal laws enacted to protect blacks. Whenever it resisted, the Southern states followed the motto "if at first you don't succeed. . . ."

fish

Why is it the right wing ideologues on this blog have a tendency to fall right in line with US South on so many issues? It is another example of authoritarian tendency of this blog.


So what are you going to do about it Ben? This blog I mean....

That's right...nothing!

My but you are a tedious little boy.

Todd Juvinall

No fish, BenE will do his best to deny all who disagree with him the right to have their opinion. He is a tyrant. He is probably happy about the fellow in England who was shu up, arrested and booked for his utterance this week. The left are the true fascists.

fish

BenE will do his best to deny all who disagree with him the right to have their opinion.

Whatever....!

I was only half kidding when I suggested that George should just give Ben the catharsis that he seems to need so desperately by admitting to .....oooh......AUTHORITARIANISM.

Todd Juvinall

I agree fish but the scary thing is people like BenE get elected and implement their terror on opponents.

Regarding AUTHORITARIANISM. I admit I did discipline my children by sending them to their corner wjile misbehaving. I do recall as well that I fully funded the Sheriff's Office so he could get the bad guys. I guess I am. Darn! I have lost the respect of Mr. BenE. Oh whoa is me.

George Rebane

re BenE's 619am - the careful reader will note that BenE continues with his allegations of my purported 'authoritarianism' and 'disenfranchising' without presenting anything that I have written - i.e. sans any evidence whatsoever. This is a typical leftwing tactic that dates back to the days of Lenin, the Stalinist show trials, and most recently Kim's killing of his uncle. The condemning words of the accused are supplied by the prosecution. The liberal at his best uses the 'we know what you really meant/thought/said' approach I have described here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/08/we-know-what-you-really-saidthoughtmeant.html

They really never get tired of it because its the only tool they have for anything ranging from debate to a court of law.

fish

George 8:31

That was a pretty good thread.

Bill Tozer

That evil greedy bastard David Koch is donating too much money to cancer research and foolishly gave 35 million to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History and 100 million to preserve and restore the humble digs of the New York City Ballet and the New York City Opera. He even went so far to fund the long running PBS series "Nova". A despicable right winger he is. Somebody stop him. There oughta be a law.

http://www.kochfamilyfoundations.org/FoundationsDHK.asp

Gregory

George, I think it's an issue of rationality and literacy, not left vs. right. Empty headed right wingers obsessed with the caricature of leftists they carry around in their heads seem to have the same basic affliction.

A case in point... An anarchist of sorts; I can't remember the kook's name, but the fellow who took over the local Libertarian Party a decade ago (Lance something? Google to the rescue... Lance Brown) was a dead ringer for Ben's style of argument but with a different set of delusions. Had a grand scheme to be the LIB presidential candidate that he eventually abandoned.

I'm still waiting for Ben to support his "algebra is a useless subject" claim.

fish

A case in point... An anarchist of sorts; I can't remember the kook's name, but the fellow who took over the local Libertarian Party a decade ago (Lance something? Google to the rescue... Lance Brown) was a dead ringer for Ben's style of argument but with a different set of delusions. Had a grand scheme to be the LIB presidential candidate that he eventually abandoned.

Maybe there's a nice cage into which they can both be thrown....the survivor still gets no respect.

Bill Tozer

Geez, talk about 'authoritarianism' and 'disenfranchising'. There is a perfect example that needs no further explaination.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/union-turmoil-could-force-boeing-to-move-production/article/2540381?utm_campaign=Fox%20News&utm_source=foxnews.com&utm_medium=feed

He who owns the gold makes the golden rules'

Ben Emery

George,
You know what has been said but here you go. What all my examples will add up to is a nation and government run by a small few people who suppress and oppress those who oppose their policies.

"To undertake an exercise in fashioning a ‘better’ voting system I would like to proceed by first framing such an effort in a reasonable manner, and then see where that would take us. And the starting point should be to get a common understanding of ‘better’, or to define a voting franchise utility (VFU) function. I’ll offer that a VFU will highly rate –

• Adherence to the Constitution as amended, specifically excluding strictures based on race, religion, gender, political persuasion, sexual preference, ethnicity, previous condition of servitude, etc.
• Maximize the expected number of franchised voters, but err in the direction of minimizing unqualified voters,
• Pareto-optimality (see below),
• Require some demonstration of minimum cognitive function and relevant knowledge base."

Right Wing Ideologue Paul Weyrich in 1980 who was one of the founders of Heritage, ALEC, and worked for the Reagan campaign/ administration. He his speaking to a Christian group about politics and voting, which is against the intent of Constitution and the law.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw

fish

George....I think Ben wants you to take a look at his school project...I think he was assigned something about voting. You know how important praise from a father figure can be to an impressionable youngster!

Bill Tozer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntbInwqsqAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=191

George Rebane

BenE 738pm - Excellent Ben! And I stand by everything that you quoted. Now you connect that to your charges and demonstrate your own understanding of the written word.

Ben Emery

George,
I know you stand by wanting to force people to vote according your ideology. Since this is a blog lets make it simple. According to your VFU standards or function.

Lets say a person thinks the US Constitution is bogus or is just wrong.

Would they be a qualified voter?
Shouldn't they as a human being have a say in the laws that they have to live under?

Lets say a person was raised in a poor area and went to lousy schools and couldn't read. Both of their parents could barely read. When finished with school this person works a job that allowed them to live but enough to seek higher education.

Would they be a qualified voter?
Shouldn't they as a human being have a say in the laws that they have to live under?


Ben Emery

George and his followers believe if a nation has the military force to back up aggressive policies they have the right to use aggressive military actions. Might is Right. This is stripping the civil liberties of those who live in those nations who are on the receiving end of our aggressive policies.

"George,
What you essentially said in your Feb 5 responses was that if a country has the ability to be the aggressors it is a viable option. This is the reality but it is the antithesis of individual liberty, natural or legal rights. I understand it is the working paradigm but outside of when I was around 14 years old haven't accepted it as the moral or correct paradigm. It appears you seem to be fine with it as long as you are on the aggressor side of the action. When violence is answered with violence it is a genocide pact or perpetual violence. When violence is answered with due process and legal consequences violence can be stopped."

"BenE 937am - Didn't mean to say anything "essentially". The ability to be an aggressor is a "viable option" for a country. It has been so forever, and will continue to be so. That is why countries develop weapons, field militaries, and sign hopeful treaties. Whether we believe in it or not, 'might is right' is the operating paradigm of nation-states."

George Rebane

BenE 554++am - Your reasoning continues to be deficient and demonstrably fearsome if/when you and yours come to power.

Nowhere have I argued for 'forcing people' to vote my ideology. As is most people's, my belief system is also imperfect. That is why I run RR and we have these debates. That you equate 'force' with the defense of one's beliefs with reason is a remarkable declaration.

I have already detailed my beliefs about the Constitution, its legitimate modification, and the minimum qualifications to exercise the vote.

'Might is right' has been and continues to be the reality in international relations. I believe that the US has been the most moral, generous, and beneficent-to-mankind superpower in history. (Ben, the operational word here is 'most'.) Can we be better at wielding our power? You bet. But it is our wielding of power over most of the last hundred years that has provided and maintained what you call 'civil rights' for those in the world that have them.

Ben Emery

George,
Do you want to reduce the eligible voting pool from virtually all citizens in our nation over the age of 18 to only those who meet your criteria?

George Rebane

BenE 921am - I will stand with what I wrote in my Union column as addended.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/09/who-can-work-who-may-vote.html

Ben Emery

George,
So yes you want some kind of test for people to have the privilege to vote thus reducing the voting populace to those who could pass such a test. I am not trying to play gotcha and am verifying.

George Rebane

BenE 936am - My goodness, there may be hope yet. Yes Ben, that indeed should be the takeaway from the piece cited in my 1124am.

Ben Emery

George and his 4 or 5 cohorts continuously defend the authority to use force in Afghanistan and Iraq (among other places) despite the people or governments of those nations posed no imminent threat to the United States. Millions of people have either been displaced, injured, PTSD, or killed due to this policy that might is right. Everyone of those millions have family and friends or just acquaintances that now hate the US or at least its government/ military. We went from maybe a few hundred disillusioned terrorists to who knows the number today.

-19 hijackers
-15 Saudi
-Major Financiers of 9/11 and al Qaeda Saudi
-Osama bin Laden Saudi (never charged with 9/11)

US goes into Afghanistan and Iraq. We round up without charges thousand Muslims. Jail them, torture them, and refuse to all them any sort of due process. I think only one conviction in over a decade of this immoral and war criminal behavior.

-US tortures (my opinion with contractors in charge not US military trained commanders)
-US destroys the country with military action
-US occupies and sets marshal law
-US puts up walls
-US uses chemical weapons (white phosphorus and depleted uranium)
-US carves up Iraq Oil Fields in 2001 prior to 9/11
-US spies on Americans in 2001 prior to 9/11

But you guys continually defend this actions. I could go on and on but we get the point; if the rights and lives that are being destroyed aren't yours or you loved ones your are at least indifferent and worst supportive.

fish

I could go on and on.......


and on and on and on and on............

Gregory

Ben Ben Ben

The US went into Afghanistan after Afghani-based terrorists flew airliners into a couple buildings in NYC.

The US sent troops to fight Iraq when Iraq's dictator invaded a neighbor who we'd rather have bought our oil from. The US later invaded Iraq when we got tired of them violating the cease fire shooting at our (and British) planes keeping them from killing their least favored minority groups while we were wrestling with the Afghani tar baby.

The UN subscribes to a "you broke it, you bought it and have to fix it" model. I think we should have countered with a "they broke themselves and if they can't fix themselves with some help, we'll let their neighbors take them over" model. In fact, the latter still works for me.

Ben Emery

Greg,
Why do you think the US has the authority to do such things?

19 terrorists hijacked planes and did horrific acts not the people or the government of any other nation. If there is a nation that had the most to do with 9/11 it was Saudi Arabia but we have a President who has long family ties with one of the most brutal dictatorships on the planet so Saudi Arabia gets a pass. I wouldn't of supported an invasion of Saudi Arabia either since 9/11 was not a state action it was a criminal action perpetrated by individuals. Investigate and go after legally those who trained and funded the plan. Instead we get into a holy war, which George and his 4 or 5 followers at least agree with enough to stay quiet on RR or aggressively support.

Gregory

Ben, it's basic international law; you can hit back.

Ben Emery

Greg,
No need to try and debate. You agree with policies that go against liberty and freedom of others. It's alright you're just solidifying my position.

Todd Juvinall

BenE, I never realized you are a warmongering man. Thanks for letting us know.

Gregory

"You agree with policies that go against liberty and freedom of others."

To the contrary, as a libertarian on the fairly radical side, I believe in freedom of choice on everything and the smallest government possible, but no smaller. In the case of military adventurism from GHW Bush to Clinton to GW Bush to Obama, the Congress granted the war powers being exercised. IIRC even Hillary Clinton voted for them.

Aided and abetted by what passed for a government in Afghanistan, Al Qaida destroyed a major piece of New York City and killed thousands of people in an act of war. That Ben Emery apparently thinks the FBI should have been sent in to solve the crime and apprehend the perps cannot be helped by anyone but Ben Emery.

Had my presidential pick in '88 been elected the precursors to 9/11 would not have been in place but as Hell did not freeze over, it was Bush I not Ron Paul in the Oval Office when Iraq overran its neighbor.

The Constitution isn't a suicide pact, Ben.

George Rebane

I wonder what "liberties and freedom of others" BenE is referring to in his 1038am.

Ben Emery

Guys,
I repeat, no need to try and debate the issue. There is nothing we haven't said before.

George,
Would you say a foreign nation that we posed no threat to invading, occupying, overthrowing the government, marshal law, all the while displacing, destroying, injuring mentally/ physically, and killing innocent civilians would be violating our liberties and freedoms? You don't see it you are blinder than I thought.

Ben Emery

George,
I am talking about a foreign nation doing those things to the USA.

fish

Gentlemen, gentlemen, .....gentlemen!

We're not getting anywhere here.....Ben has has smoked out a den of crimethinkers...your protestations to the contrary will not sway his judgements.

...and Ben, a future congressman and all round "A" student should recall that the term "marshal" has nought to do with war little to do with war in this context.

marshal

märSHəl/verb

1. arrange or assemble (a group of people, esp. soldiers) in order.

"the general marshaled his troops" (don't let this sentence throw you...marshal really addresses the organization of things)

synonyms: assemble, gather (together), collect, muster, call together, draw up, line up, align, array, organize, group, arrange, deploy, position, order, dispose

the term for which I believe you search is..."martial".... pertaining to matters of war and soldiery.

martial

märSHəl/adjective

1.of or appropriate to war; warlike.
"martial bravery"

synonyms:military, soldierly, soldier-like, army, naval

My best to President Camacho when you see him in D.C.!

Ben Emery

Fish,
You are correct, my bad. Martial Law. Most of the corrections that are pointed out are trivial but this one is legit. When you are typing in the back of barn trying to get back to work a person makes many mistakes. No way to contact me outside of online at work. One and done is all the time I have for many of these comments.

Have a very Merry Christmas and I will send out a prayer for you tomorrow night when I will be burning a yule log in the great outdoors.

Ben Emery

Lets move back to voter id disenfranchisement. The only place where a poor person has a say in their government is through their vote. So make laws that target the poor, elderly, college students, and especially people of color. The way to actually have the governed dictate to the government what their needs and wants are is through the vote. Restrict poor peoples ability to vote and make outcomes of elections solely upon spending money and we get what we currently have. Over 9 out of 10 candidates who spend the most money in their campaign win. Tomorrow I will get into money in politics.

Despite years of investigations, tens of millions of dollars, the push back and eventual dismissal of US attorney's, and voter fraud convictions of something like 0.0001% you guys support voter id disenfranchisement laws. Most voter fraud convictions are a mistake like voting in the wrong district or trying to vote while being a felon in a state that denies felons the ability to vote despite serving their time.

These new voter id disenfranchisement laws are specifically targeted at those who generally vote for the democratic party and are easiest to spot. You guessed it the color of a persons skin is the key indicator that they are going to be challenged. This goes back to the inequality and the long history of oppression and suppression of people of color.

This is a great summary of the new ALEC model legislation voter id disenfranchisement laws.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830

fish

Right back at you Ben! Merry Christmas!

Paul Emery

Anyone who thinks that the whole push to make voting more difficult is not politically motivated to discourage voting by those inclined to lean Democratic is hopelessly naive. It's so obvious and in reality quite a potentially successful strategy. It's like those who blast California pro Democratic reapportionment and ignore what the Republicans have done nationally to lock in the House majority. Jeez guys, it's POLITICS !!! Don't you get it? I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of innocent children sometimes. Grow up.

fish

That passage was directed at Ben I assume Paul?

Paul Emery

Fish

No Ben writes:

"These new voter id disenfranchisement laws are specifically targeted at those who generally vote for the democratic party and are easiest to spot."

I agree with Ben on that. It's so obvious that even those desirous of the outcome has to agree even though they won't admit it.

Todd Juvinall

Voter ID is a necessary thing to keep the left from stealing any more elections. Too many dead democrats voting throw things into turmoil. So, get real, spend the twenty cents and show your face at the polls. Amazing.

Paul Emery

Todd

It may be too much for you but can you show me some documentation to back up your 3:52?

Todd Juvinall

That seems to be the opinions I hear. You just don't have it man. Give it up.

Paul Emery

So Todd you've given up all pretense of credibility. By the way, opinions aren't facts especially when you talk about criminal activity.

Paul Emery

Todd

By the way Nancy Garcia's response to Joe Koyote's allegations was appropriate and documented. With that thought in mind I am going to plagiarize Ms Garcia with this modified statement:

If Todd Juvinal is going to grace this blog with comments about the Democratic Party, it would indeed be appreciated if he took the time to verify his suspicions with facts - and then present these facts in his comments. Instead he chooses, like a malfunctioning cannon , to shoot in all directions, hoping to land a blow - and missing wildly!


fish

No Ben writes:

"These new voter id disenfranchisement laws are specifically targeted at those who generally vote for the democratic party and are easiest to spot."

I agree with Ben on that. It's so obvious that even those desirous of the outcome has to agree even though they won't admit it.


Yeah but up thread your statement was; "Jeez guys, it's POLITICS !!! Don't you get it? I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of innocent children sometimes. Grow up. Since Ben seems to be the one most concerned about getting the "Free Shit Army" to the polls it just looked like you were scolding him for being so naive.

My bad.

fish

Eeeew!

...and Ben, a future congressman and all round "A" student should recall that the term "marshal" has nought to do with war little to do with war in this context.

I need an editor!

Todd Juvinall

It's OK PaulE, you are past your prime now and it is fully out in the open that your talents (whatever they were) in music and other things), are done. I would suggest you not embarrass yourself publicly anymore. Public ridicule of your attempts at talent are no fun to take. So, keep trying but your are no longer viewed as any good in the entertainment circles.

Todd Juvinall

Anyway, as for me, I am not attempting anything along the lines of looking for some pats on the back like you PaulE. So, you can dodge and weave but you are dried up man. Accept it. Too funny!

George Rebane

There is no evidence that voter ID and other verification processes have reduced the minority vote; in fact, the evidence is to the contrary. Legitimate voters in America, no matter their economic or ethnic status, do not see our desire to approach voting prerequisites, similar to those in Mexico, Canada, and the EU, as being in any way restrictive.

However it is more than humorous to see liberals argue about the high cognitive standards of the poor on one hand (making them impervious to voter ID et al), and then switch sides of the mouth to argue that such legitimizing protocols are somehow beyond the ken of and cause an injustice to the very same people. (Exhibit A is PaulE's 250pm.)

Todd Juvinall

I'll take that point another step further George. I submit that the liberal crying about the voter id is a racist. I know, I know, how can that be? Well, in my view, all Americans are equal in the eyes of the law and whether economically poor or not, able to perceive a modicum of educational ability. The liberal and the race hustlers are telling the poor and the non-whites that they are not capable to even find and/or purchase a ID! They are calling these people stupid. They are saying that if you are a poor and/or non-white (even a white Hispanics) you are unable to make the grade. Class division.

I say they are fully capable and fully equal in the ability to secure a ID. But of course, up is down and black is white for the liberal hypocrites.

Bill Tozer

States that have enacted some sort of Constitutional Voter ID laws have seen voter participation by minorities INCREASE. Those in make believe land think otherwise or simply dismiss the premise out of hand. Contempt prior to investigation and all that jazz. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Merry Christmas, one and all.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/12/19/war-on-christmas-it-more-like-war-on-christians-in-many-parts-world/

Ben Emery

Once again, I am done debating these issues with you guys. The numbers have been done six ways to Sunday and all come in relatively close to each other. All I can say is your lack of understanding of the plight of the working poor and poverty stricken folks is unbelievable. As I am pointing out on just about every anti democratic issue you guys side with authority, power, and the elite.

Ben Emery

This one is for tomorrow since it got ignored.

Nelson Mandela was literally one of the most impressive humans beings to walk the earth in the last century. Not because of his superior intellect or ability to gain power but because he had no price to his convictions and he did not reciprocate the treatment he endured to others. Just remember Reagan vetoed the sanctions on oppressive South Africa policy of apartheid or in other words took the side of the oppressors. Reagan and many republicans thought Mandela was a terrorist and labelled him a communist to smear his character.

In this show they mentioned multiple times that the ending of Apartheid was a collective movement. Tell me how sweet Tavis Smiley, Cornel West, Ron Dellums, and Maxine Waters stories about their experiences with Nelson Mandela?

I encourage all of you to listen to this show in its entirety.

http://stream.publicbroadcasting.net/production/mp3/tavis/local-tavis-1030567.mp3

Paul Emery

George

Can you show me some of the "evidence" you refer to in your 6:53

I accept that you seem to truly believe that there is no political motivation in the Republican moves to make voting more difficult for a certain group of people so there's not much else to talk about in this thread.

RE Todd 4:48

" Public ridicule of your attempts at talent are no fun to take."

Now you become a music critic. When was the last time (if ever) that you heard me play? If you really wanted to judge the declining of my musical talents that you claim have caused me public ridicule you could have been one of the 200 that paid $20 a ticket to see my show at the Nevada Theatre a couple of weeks ago. You could have witnessed my embarrassment first hand along with the others in the house that gave me and my band a standing ovation.

Perhaps I have declined a bit since my band was chosen to play for the Queen of England in 1983 but hey, I haven't seen your name on any construction sites for about 20 years and your recent employment record is rather spotty as I am told.

Ben Emery

Paul,
I was asked to prove or give examples of my claims that Rebane's Rumination is authoritarian fascist/ corporatist blog. So I am going through pointing out all the issues that shows where I get the idea that Rebane's Ruminations is an authoritarian fascist/ corporatist blog. As I have said here before many times on a daily level I guess George and his four or five followers are decent people but their politics are off the charts on the right side of the aisle.

fish

Paul,

I was asked to prove or give examples of my claims that Rebane's Rumination is authoritarian fascist/ corporatist blog. So I am going through pointing out all the issues that shows where I get the idea that Rebane's Ruminations is an authoritarian fascist/ corporatist blog. As I have said here before many times on a daily level I guess George and his four or five followers are decent people but their politics are off the charts on the right side of the aisle.

So I guess we're done with your "proof"?

(Please, Oh please, oh please......)

Ben Emery

Sorry Fish,
There is plenty more. Sorry if the truth is so painful for you. Just think I had to endure a couple years of this right wing bs to gather such information.

fish

Sorry if the truth is so painful for you.

I don't think you would know the "truth" if it was clamped firmly to your ass.

Just think I had to endure a couple years of this right wing bs to gather such information.

Ah Ben Emery, intrepid reporter...here to save us from wrong thinking!

Todd Juvinall

I truly am sorry PaulE that you are now the subject of ridicule about you music ("reporting"). Nothing personal. But we all should know our limitations. Some people like you believe they are a lot more than they really are. You need to realize you have lost your edge (if you really had one) and if you have any talent left, perhaps go to the big city instead of a one horse town and a couple of hundred people. Whoop de doo. They were really not impressed some have said, but they were courteous.

No, I realize our skills diminish and you and I are no different. I don't build any more, you should really consider retirement, you just don't have it any more. People are talking.

fish

Reagan and many republicans thought Mandela was a terrorist and labelled him a communist to smear his character.

One mans freedom fighter and all that.....

I encourage all of you to listen to this show in its entirety.

Sorry...not when the web provides so many high quality cat videos for our viewing pleasure.

Todd Juvinall

BenE, Mandela was a communist. A self proclaimed one. You need to do more homework. His ANC organization did blow things up and kill innocent people. They used terror to influence the demise of apartheid. His value a a man was later seen as he then practiced peace and reconciliation. He probably used Lincoln and then Johnson's strategies after the Civil War to keep South Africa from being destroyed in race wars.

We see though that the transition to black rule has left the country in tough economic condition. Change is tough.

Gregory

"Tell me how sweet Tavis Smiley, Cornel West, Ron Dellums, and Maxine Waters stories about their experiences with Nelson Mandela?" -Ben

Can someone translate this in a proper grammatic form that is faithful to Ben's intent?

Ben, please, tell us again why you dropped out of that community college despite all those A's.

fish

Can someone translate this in a proper grammatic form that is faithful to Ben's intent?

Tough to form coherent thoughts in mid swoon!

Ben Emery

George and is his fellow fascists are against living wages for all workers who work full time hours, in fact would like to see minimum wage laws abolished. While at the same time justify CEO's making tens of millions up to hundreds of millions a year in compensation.

fish

George and is his fellow fascists are against living wages for all workers who work full time hours, in fact would like to see minimum wage laws abolished. While at the same time justify CEO's making tens of millions up to hundreds of millions a year in compensation.

You're simultaneously projecting while changing the subject!

Sorry Ben I saw little artistic merit in your routine, only a 7.0 on the creative side.

Stuck the landing though.

George Rebane

re PaulE's 1240am - Voter turnout rates in the aftermath of stricter verification requirements for the voter’s franchise have ranged from flat through increasing to, now, “surging”. Legitimate voters tend to vote in greater numbers when they feel that their votes will not be diluted by illegal votes. Why would anyone expect otherwise? Data on this has been available in recent years as more and more states have implemented voter ID laws.

Despite this, the lamestream and their lackies continue to spread the word that confirming lawful voters is both discriminatory and racist. Well, racist it isn’t by any rational definition and/or measure of racism. But it is discriminatory since it discriminates against the illegal voter.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/357449/politico-surprised-discover-facts-voter-id-patrick-brennan

RR has long maintained the belief that voters for progressive causes and policies are in the large terminally ignorant. As has been reported in these pages, these aggregate metrics come from both the statistical and clinical fields. My own thoughts on the voter franchise are a matter of record throughout this blog's archive, and perhaps best summarized in these posts.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/09/who-can-work-who-may-vote.html
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/12/who-should-not-vote.html

fish

Wow...the 2011/09 post had some top notch Keachie channeling Ben..or Ben channeling Keachie. A regular ouroboros of proglodyte whining!

Todd Juvinall

Posted by: Ben Emery | 21 December 2013 at 09:20 AM

Ben Emery, other than your consistently tiresome allegations that RR posters are fascists, do you have some undeniable proof? I think not. We posters here are all freedom loving people who cherish the rights of the individual and then the compilation of them into the America we love. ( I am excluding you and your liberal pals from this acclamation)

I see you however as that which you claim we are. You want to take the fruits of hardworking middle class, well, all classes, and give it to others without even a modicum of guilt. To me that is communism, the "joined at the hip" equivalent to fascism. I have read the Constitution and cannot find anywhere in it that says you have the right to take my property without due process of the law. I also read in the document that the government cannot interfere with contracts between the citizens. So I agree the minimum wage is actually an illegal act by the government.

Before you call we freedom loving people here names, I would suggest a long look in the mirror, a few sessions with a shrink and a few classes on the Constitution. You are simply an ignorant man.

Ben Emery

Todd,
Don't worry your fascist little head that is coming soon. I am building my case for an authoritarian fascist/ corporatist blog. So far we have established you guys are in support for limiting eligible voters (targets poor), stop and frisk (targets people of color), eliminating minimum wage (targets poor), dropping bombs on innocent people (wrong religion and mostly people of color), invading/ occupying sovereign nations (Muslim and strategic resources), stripping civil liberties, torture, indefinite detention, extraordinary rendition, and are in support of Reagan's veto of the sanctions on the oppressive South Africa regime while calling Mandela communist terrorist.

You need to look up Mandela's record as a sitting President.
http://qz.com/155310/nelson-mandela-was-also-a-huge-champion-of-free-markets/

Todd Juvinall

I must BenE you certainly are creative, but don't worry that little communist heart of yours for us. Too funny.

Paul Emery

Thanks Todd for the review of my music. I am going to use this in my promo material

"Todd Juvinal says Paul Emery is no longer viewed as any good in the entertainment circles."

It will greatly enhance my draw since you are held in such high esteem in the Arts world and people will be interested in witnessing my decline. Thanks for the break.

By the way did you pick up that tasty bit of information while dangling your worm for liberal women at Friar Tucks where you seem to be a regular? You do like chasing those hippie women in their 50's I'm told. Try a peace symbol tattoo on your neck. It will greatly enhance your chances in those circles. You can tell stories about you and Mario Savio and the Free Speech Movement and about how you avoided the draft and rode motorcycles. Also dig up your leathers and tell stories about how you and your biker brothers once rode the backroads of California peeing on trees to mark your territory. I'm giving you some good tips brother to return the favor for the juicy quote about my music.

Ben Emery

Sorry big guy I don't believe the government should own all property and abolishing private property.

"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property." Karl Marx

I don't mind investors and executives making more compensation just not 350 times the average worker, which is the current national average for CEO to worker. In some industries it gets up to 5000 times over workers.Currently Walmart CEO one year compensation is equal to 800 employees if averaged out, $17 million. It should be at maximum 30 to 1, which would be $660k a year. The President of the United States of America has an annual compensation $520k.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery. I am sad to have to bear the bad news for you. Your music is viewed as pretty atrocious by many people and they just didn't have the courage to tell you. Even some local artists I know have told me you are not talented anymore. Your talent has expired yet you refuse to accept it. Like an old washed up quarterback.

I did not serve in the military PaulE and for some reason you just think you have some sort of moral advantage by being a reservist during the Vietnam War. As I mentioned before, you complained that Geoirge Bush was a reservist to avoid VietNam yet you did the same thing. Don't you see your hypocrisy on that?

Regading Friar Tucks. Yes, I have dinner there sometimes, and I chose to spend my money on a local bistro. Helps those middle income kids working there. I don't sneak into the woods and toke like most of your ilk. Just not my style. And, you met a date I had in Nevada City a few weeks ago and I could see you slobbering all over her. She was definetly someone who would not give you the time of day. I have many of those kinds of dates. I tried a local hippie woman for a date and I'll leave them to you. Your style is not mine.

So, there you have it Paul Emery. Your music is now derided by your fellow compatriots who say these things behind your back. I am sorry for your loss.

fish

The President of the United States of America has an annual compensation $520k.

Indeed. I thought given his level of competence Barack was overpaid as well.

See Ben we don't always disagree.

George Rebane

Gentlemen, since this comment stream has now sought and discovered new dimensions from the field of music critique - ours here being strictly conveyed by an exchange of mudballs of various size and shape, I therefore would like to draw it to a close with my own offering.

Jo Ann and I are fans of Paul Emery's musical offerings, be they productions of third party ensembles, participatory affairs with old friends, or even solo performances. That older gentleman with balding pate, scraggly ponytail, and some tracks from years past still visible on his back has a way of delivering pleasurable comfort as he stands there, occasionally stamping out the beat with his good foot while picking his trusty gitfiddle, and belting out another tune whose lyrics he has tattooed inside his eyelids.

Ahh, but his socio-political arrangements and interpretations, now that's another matter ...

Todd Juvinall

George I knew you would intervene to stop the madness. Thanks.

What I don't ascribe to anymore with anyone, PaulE being one of the worst, is their ability to come and trash me or others in ways they feel they can get away with, with impunity. For instance, I was a builder, so PaulE attacks that. Now that is my way of making my living, building, and I am proud of that as he is of his music.. He and others, Fedor, Frisch etal, smear my way of making a living. So, does it stand to say what is good for the goose? If they trash my politics, so be it (like Ben Emery). But they always attack things we like (or our friends or policians we like) and we are simply supposed to take it without retort. Why is PaulE's music, which he makes his living from, any different for criticism than my building a hoiuse based on PaulE's rules? In my view it is not. As evidenced by his doubling sown on his trashing me, even where I eat and the women I date. So I would say, you should delete his stuff as you should mine when we get into it. He is welcome to come duke it out on my site.

Bill Tozer

Ben: stop and frisk (criminals), not people of color. Most of the world is inhabited by poor people of color. Heck, you can't even throw a dart at the globe without hitting a person of color who is poor. You should toss and turn tonight grieving over the fact that most of the world does not have indoor plumbing and you do. Beat yourself with chains.

Ok, I will give you what you want, what you are crying endlessly for. Here it comes, your heart's desire: I am a facist. There, you happy now? You can quote me and publish my name. Bill Tozer says he is a facist. Now, as a bigoted authoritain facist, I feel you are a friggin control freak. I have a good bull pucky detector and yes, it takes one to know one. See, we are facists, you and me. You and me, Brother Ben, against this white man's oppressor world where the filthy rich and privledged enjoy public drinking fountains and 3 hots and a cot.

Because I am a facist, let me pose to you (my facist Brother from another mother) a question:

Why do the happy people who have a few dollars in their pocket see a car with its windows down and a wallet sitting on the front seat...just keep on walking by? And why does a cockroach lowlive piece of human debris see the same thing and steal the wallet? Or even smash the window if it is locked? Its it because they are black? Is it Brother Ben? Or is it cause they are criminals?

You saying stop and frish is people of color and I say it is criminals. Go ahead, make excuses. Like they are pressing guns against people's temples (leaving that cute adorable gun barrel imprint)...sticking guns in folks like you faces because they plan to buy a package of baloney to take home to the little starving ones? Its it because they are stuck in the barrior and don't know any better? Its it cause of 500 zillion years of oppression and slavery? Is it cause they don't get enough food stamps or they are poorly educated or they are dumb? Maybe the CIA planted crack cocaine in the barrio to keep em dumb and oppressed. Or, is it that they are fuking shit for brains criminals. Stop and frisk catches criminals, the ones who prey on vulernable moral decent poor people of color. Your bright ideas and methods brings hardship TO the black community. You would rather have the black community preyed upon live in fear than help them sweep their streets of undesirables. You are worse than Uncle Tom. You put snakes under the beds of former slaves. You bring harm to the most vulerable, comforting yourself with what you believe are good intentions. Your good mintentions leave people dead and bloodied and hopeless. You disgust me. I need to vomit.

fish

You saying stop and frish is people of color and I say it is criminals.

Steve....rebuttal?

Bill Tozer

Oh, I forgot to say Merry Christmas, Peace on Earth and Goodwill to MAN. Peace out bros, dig your fros.

Ben Emery

I cannot speak to everybody on this issue but I can take a guess that a majority of my fascist five support government authority over women's reproductive rights while at the same time opposing government offered social programs to help raise that child in a functional manner that will benefit society and the individual as a whole. In fact my guess a government mandate that women get paid equal pay for equal work doesn't sit well with you guys. On average women only make $0.78 to every $1.00 a man makes for the same work. How is it women make up around 50% of the population but in US House and US Senate of the 112th congress they only held 17% of the seats? In the private sector the fortune 1000 only 4.5% of the CEO's are women. By law women much like people of color have been kept out of opportunities and access to equality with white men.

Ben Emery

Boys,
Next topic equality for women. Women in the US are just over 50% of the population. That's right I am a feminist as well. I believe equality for all not just some.

I cannot say for sure with the fascist five but have a good feeling that having government authority over women's reproductive rights is supported. At the same time opposing government assistance programs for women to raise that child in a functional manner that benefits society as a whole and the individual. Opposition of government mandate for equal pay for equal work, right now women get paid $0.80 to a man's $1.00 for equal work. In fortune 1000 women make up 4.5% of the CEO's. In the 112th US Congress women made up 17% of both chambers. Only 40 women in US history have held US Cabinet positions.

By law women much like people of color have been prevented access and opportunities to have equality with white men.

Ben Emery

Bill,
In the millions of stops 97% of the people are not convicted of any crime. 90% of the people who are stopped are people of color and a majority of those are young black men.

fish

Next topic equality for women

Well you have a good time handing out your promotional literature Ben.

George Rebane

BenE 302am - Most interesting, since the long understood position of conservatives is to get government completely out of "women's reproductive rights" (aka socialist speak for government sponsored abortion clinics). On your planet, this apparently is viewed in the Orwellian newspeak fashion where absence of government involvement means the exertion of "government authority". Another example of massive cognitive dissonance recommending the Great Divide.

Bill Tozer

Brother Ben is correct when he cites "In the 112th US Congress women made up 17% of both chambers."

Who to blame, oh, who to blame??

Easy answer: The American voter, the people of the United States of America. Elections have consequences. Blame "the voter" in all 50 States and every district across the amber waves of grain (including Seward's Folly and the Sandwich Islands) for the 17% figure.

Next question please.

Ben Emery

Bill,
Have you thought of it this way before.

Less than 100 years that number was zero with no chance of increasing. The laws in place preventing women from voting and running for federal public office in most states. The laws passed by white males prevented all others to advance and prosper equally with themselves, that is the whole point. So by the time all others were allowed to participate in the governance of our nation the foundation was so secure we are still left with the legacy of it. The proof is 17% of the 112th US Congress were women despite being 50% of the population. Then we get to the private sector where 4.5% of CEO of the fortune 500 are women. Yet every step of the way those trying to gain some equality and justice were met with strong resistance from those who sat in a position of power both in private and public sectors and still do today.

Will continue tomorrow with more examples

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