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31 December 2013

Comments

Joe Koyote

What do you think of parliamentary style legislatures? They seem to be able to accommodate the multiple political parties that exist in Europe and the people can call for a new election whenever they don't like what is going on. Because of the multiple parties coalitions and compromise seem to rule the day rather than standoffs and filibusters.

George Rebane

JoeK 422pm - we've discussed that approach on these pages, and there is a lot to learn from that multi-party parliamentary system. I'm sure that if/when we give it a try, we'll come up with a purely American version of it. I even believe that it can be and should be done within our current constitutional framework. Thoughts?

Bill Tozer

Well, is a new year approaching. And as Dr. Rebane said, "that doesn’t mean that the domestic silly season will end any time soon."

I see 2014 as being more focused on foreign affairs. This Iran situation may just be the biggest game changer since WW2 and much more destabilizing and the biggest threat to world peace in centuries. Armageddon? A weakening US and a rising crop of Ayatollahs...what could go wrong with this picture being played out as we speak?

I don't see anything being done to fix the current mess as our current officials have not been able to fix any mess in the past 5 years. They are little children in a grownup's game. Sad.

Here is a opinion from one of my favorite and most respected (revered) women I know. What she says, I listen. Only a fool would not.

The problem with people who live in a world of speeches and books and theories is they don’t know how to fix things in the real world when they go wrong.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/12/30/after-obamacare-nsa-benghazi-scandals-could-2014-bring-course-correction-for/

I am not even cautiously optimistic. Oh, Happy New Year.

Walt

A HAPPY NEW YEAR to all. May we all have as much fun griping, sniping, and rubbing one's nose in it,,GREAT time this new year as we did this last year.

A good night to all..

Todd Juvinall

Happy New Year! Obama will be neutralized politically, the R's will get the Senate and hold the House and here in California the people will realize their past folly electing democrats and give us the legislature. (well I try to be positive, LOL!)

Account Deleted

Happy New Year, one and all! No politics for now. Having the first cup of joe and watching the dogs scour the yard for the scent of whatever critters intruded on their territory last night. The coming year will bring it's joys and challenges. Cheers!

Bill Tozer

Well said Mr. Obermuller. All the joys and challenges of 2014 will be waiting for us at the appointed time.

Joe Koyote

While parliamentary style system might be good for the U.S., I don’t see that happening anytime soon. First, our system of government was designed to preserve the status quo (defined as little or no change in the laws). And, as the recent Congress has proven, the House can stifle the Senate and vise-versa, and the President can veto any of it. The result is any great changes in the day to day operations of the country are slow in coming and often watered down beyond usefulness. Those elected officials and the special interests who are behind them are not going to let the system change.

The only feasible way to change our system of representation would be through a constitutional amendment coming up through the states. This would require a groundswell of public support in enough states to ratify it; not an easy task given the great political division in our society today and the influence of mass media on public opinion. This, of course, favors those in power (big corps. and their owners) because they have the resources to pour into election campaigns.

Another problem I see with implementing a Parliamentary style system in America is our culture. For such a system to truly be more democratic there has to be room, as in Italy for example, for each and every political party who can win a seat. This means the neo-nazis, the communists, the social democrats, the regular democrats, the republicans, the vulcans, and every other imaginable sort of political persuasion will have to sit down at the table together and work out a deal. Given our current ideological divisions and the level of animosity that currently exists between them I wonder if any real change is even possible. I think the lemmings of all political persuasions are being led to the cliff.

George Rebane

JoeK 932am - the current administration has publicly promised and openly delivered on extra-legal changes in government programs and enforcements through the action of executive branch controlled agencies. I wonder, would such execution of governance be abetted or hindered in a coalition government comprised of, say, four significant parties?

And off what cliff do you see which lemmings being led?

Joe Koyote

Edward Bernais, the founder of modern propaganda wrote that the two party system was perfect because it is easier to control the ideology of the populace with two parties rather than multiple ones. So I think multiple parties would put more pressure on an executive from more people and thus help to curb excessive executive power. As for lemmings, I think both left and right are being manipulated by the globalists. The chasm between left and right is pretty much BS and predicated on blowing minor issues way out of proportion to divide and control the populace. Many of the differences between the two are ideologically based and, thus, just emotional rhetoric without much substance but able to capitalize on people's emotions and pit us against each other. WWII and the cold war are long over yet American disdain for nazis and communists cultivated during those epochs continues to be used to divide the public as left and right accuse each other of being one or the other often with hate and vitriol as the pages of this blog can attest to. Until the American people realize who the real enemy is (and its not each other) things will not change much.

George Rebane

JoeK 1028am - According to your lights, was the "disdain for nazis and communists" misplaced? Should we continue such disdain today?

You also imply that since the "differences between the (Right and Left) are ideologically based and, thus, just emotional rhetoric without much substance", there really are no substantive differences between the two sides." Given the extensive literature (academic, journalistic, popular, ...) on our polarization, that is a remarkable statement.

In these pages 'ideology' has been productively referred to as a structured and communicable belief system, usually about governance and the organization of civil society. Or more simply "a system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy. 'the ideology of republicanism', synonyms: beliefs, ideas, ideals, principles, ethics, morals;"

The less informed, pejorative, yet popular definition of ideology seems to be a collection of unreasonable ideas that are not supported by facts. Are you using it in that sense? If so, what would you label the formal definition?

Paul Emery

George

What have you done to encourage the creation of more political parties other than talk about it. Talk is cheap. You seem like a reliable Pubber that never leaves the reservation.

George Rebane

PaulE 155pm - Well, about as much as someone at my stage of life can do about it. I continue to give numerous talks to community groups (including the Repub Central Committee) about the weaknesses of our two party system. I have joined the Tea Party, and been active in its formation and continuance in the NorCal region. I have broadcast my views on the topic, as you know, on KVMR, and now on NCTV. I'm into my seventh year on RR promoting these ideas to thousands of visitors. I communicate regularly with my congressional representatives about the problem. And we financially support several important institutions and advocacy groups that take both Repubs and Dems to task with ideas that promote 'out of the box' thought. Fianlly, I continue to be constantly accused of being a political radical not fitting into the moderate Republican mainstream.

Yet most leftists, as these pages attest, still don't know jack shit about what I believe and advocate. How cheap is your talk?

Todd Juvinall

I detect some sort of snobbery from PaulE regarding his association with the loser political party he is affiliated with. Is that hubris?

This is based on his comments denigrating the major parties.

Gregory

"Yet most leftists, as these pages attest, still don't know jack shit about what I believe and advocate."

George, I've come to conclude the average person walking around in a parody of sentient life listens only long enough to decide if you are in their tribe or the one they are at war against, and if you are the Enemy, you become the caricature they believe you must be.

Paul is more sentient than most. ;)

George Rebane

Gregory 320pm - There is much merit in your conclusion.

Walt

Joe is going off the Leftist deep end. ( lay off the bath salts)
Defending Nazis's place at the table?,, Really??? ? So today's Nazis ( skin heads, and "White power",,and the dudes in sheets)Commies too? Lucky your not
Kin Jun Un's Uncle. Getting fed to hungry dogs alive by your own nephew would really suck.
Even the socialist states believe "O" and Co. have gone too far. ( and that was a long time ago.)

Paul Emery

So Todd I take it you have no respect for anyone who is not a Republican or Democrat since they don't win elections. I am very much in support of our hosts desire to see more viable political parties. Where do you stand on the issue?

Todd Juvinall

I have a lot of respect for people PaulE, even you. I am talking about getting things done. You want a bridge built, a dam or a new social program? Then you better get on board one or the other. You can languish in your tiny little world of "nothing gets done" to better yourself, your state and your country by belonging to a third party like the P and F's. I am not talking about hope and change from the third party, I am talking about getting reality accomplished.

Walt

"More viable political parties",, Let's see. What happened to the Ross P. Party of decades past? The Green party is still around. I guess the independents are chopped liver?
It's not like D and R's give out licenses for others to join the club.
The way things are going, the Tea Party has the makings to be the next real contender. Despite the dirty tricks from Liberal minions within the IRS, the TP
has picked up steam. LIBS may care to prepare for the second coming of the last
mid term blood bath.

Joe Koyote

George: 11:27 -- You misunderstood. No, the disdain for these extreme forms of government/society was not out of place, then or now. My point is that it seems as if the right and left in America today hold each other with much the same disdain as was held for the Nazis and Communists. I think this type of disdain has been carefully cultivated within the U.S. by the globalists to keep the country so divided that it is unable to solve its problems, which, of course, plays right into their plans to weaken America. Just look at the how much this recent Congress accomplished; next to nothing. If anything they did more damage than good. The last two presidential administrations have been total disasters.

The responses to the threads on this blog alone should be an indication of that disdain. It can get rude and nasty and that is my point. The national political discussion between left and right in America is counter-productive by design. Until the rank and file voters realize that the real enemy is not the person standing next to them in the voting line but small groups of people in cigar smoke filled rooms all over the world, life in the colonies is just going to continue to go downhill as the propaganda machine makes mountains out of molehills and the people bicker over which view of the mountain, North or South (forgetting East or West is also a possibility) is correct. Drawing lines in the sand and digging in is not the answer but that is the cliff we are being led toward. And as things continue to deteriorate it will only get worse, more and more divided. Once some civility has returned to the national and local discussion, people will find that they all mostly have about the same goals. The rest can then be worked out.

Bill Tozer

Besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy...."

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1464008_10151774472555911_252864643_n.jpg

Gregory

"Once some civility has returned to the national and local discussion, people will find that they all mostly have about the same goals."

Koyote, do you think the Holocaust-inspired term "climate denier" has any place in this civil discussion you are envisioning?

Joe Koyote

The same place in the discussion as environmental wackos and lefties.

fish

The same place in the discussion as environmental wackos and lefties.

Fair enough Joe.

Gregory

So, how is "environmental wacko" (a term I don't use) or "lefty" (just short for left wing) equivalent to rhetoric used for Nazi sympathizers?

Gregory

Or, more to the point, how is "environmental wacko" (a term I don't use) or "lefty" (just short for left wing) equivalent to rhetoric used for Nazi sympathizers who refuse to acknowledge the piles of dead bodies and human lampshades?

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