Walter Williams on the Great Divide

George Rebane

The Great Divide as a means to peaceably resolve the post-tipping point ideological polarization of the country is a major theme on RR and has its own category of related posts.  The thought of Dr Walter Williams, eminent academic, economist, and outspoken observer of the American scene, has often graced these pages.  At a recent Investors Business Daily conference Dr Williams gave his assessment (here) of where we are as a divided people and what we should do about it.  (H/T to reader)

My thoughts on the matter in a similar vein have caused some of the more rabid of the local left to call me a traitor, and for my expulsion from these shores.  The fear of the Left’s losing their meal ticket is palpable and totally understandable.  Nevertheless, Dr Williams and many people now see a negotiated partition of the country as the only reasonable and peaceful way forward which will halt the growing tyranny by the majority of the ignorant and least productive over the productive minority yearning to again enjoy the freedoms our Founders bequeathed us.

Please take time to read and reflect on the arguments presented in this short piece.

Comments

[Russ Steele]

Dr Williams lists several options.

We can like sheep submit to those who have contempt for liberty and our
Constitution. We can resist, fight and risk bloodshed and death in an
attempt to force America's tyrants to respect our liberties and
Constitution.

A superior alternative is to find a way to peaceably separate into
states whose citizens respect liberty and the Constitution.

My personal preference is a restoration of the constitutional values of
limited government that made us a great nation.

Readers, which is your personal choice? I am with the Tea Party and a smaller constitutional government, though would support the peaceful separation of the states. We cannot continue with the one big government fits all approach to governing.

[Barry Pruett]

I suppose that smaller federal government allows for people of like-minds to live in states that suit their conscience and preserves the Union. In any event, it is clear that the smaller government arguments are gaining traction among our youth. Have faith my friends as the youth of today do care deeply about freedom. They are much more libertarian than our present day politicians.

[Paul Emery]

Also Barry they are certainly much more Libertarian than the Republican Party which is holding on to the cash cow mantle of the War on Drugs and the pursuit of unconstitutional and unfunded wars. If we follow Georges desire to have multiple parties you first have to vote that way, something I'm committed to doing. Ironically George did not Boothe independent in '12 sticking with the Pubbers all the way.

Todd would call me a loser because I don't vote for a Republican or Democrat which is entirely inconsistent with the idea of the beneficial pursuit of diverse political parties dividing up the power. George refers to as: "My own wish for the political scene is to welcome a movement toward multiple parties that more closely reflect the ideologies of smaller constituencies. Today’s two big tent parties deliver everything you would expect from an oligopoly, and in my estimate wind up truly serving only about one out of ten Americans." I agree with this and am willing to put my vote where my mouth is.

[Paul Emery]

sp: Did not vote independent

[Account Deleted]

There is a big difference in our current national situation vs the issues Lincoln faced. A large segment of the poplulation in the 1850s had no education, rights or access to legal recourse. The civil war was fought for more reasons than just slavery - The vast majority of southerners never had slaves nor could own slaves. Lincoln himself said that the issue of slavery wasn't even paramount in his desire to retain the south as part of the union. He was far more concerned with the issue of the national defence. We were not the country then we are now vs other powers that existed in the world in those days. Our nation was a mere infant in historical terms in those days. Today our citizens are all able to participate and have a say in the course of our affairs. Having said all of that, dividing our nation into subsets of the USA would not do much good towards having more a unified populace. Look at Oregon. 90% of the terrain is populated by a majority of conservatives. But Salem, Portland and Eugene run the state. What to do about Texas? Everyone else in the country thinks Texas is solidly conservative. Yet there are major parts of Texas that might as well be Berkeley. The great divide is not a geographical line. The line of the great divide runs through our national psyche and has much to do with our emotional maturity. Those with unresolved issues from their childhood look to the govt as the protector or provider of nurturing that they feel was lacking in their childhood. Those of us who have matured to become self actuating and fully functioning adults have no need for a govt to provide us with a re-creation of what we felt we missed from childhood. Remember the pony tailed guy at the Clinton presidential debate? His view of govt struck a chord with most Americans. How will you hold us in your arms and smother us with big kisses and scoldings? That is not what conservatives view as the role of govt. We view govt as our servant. It is paid to be our body guard, not our nanny. This is the unresolvable issue and it will (actually IS) tearing the country apart. I will not back down and neither will my foes. I do not expect them to and they should expect no less of me. The only difference is I am honest and they are liars. They constantly advance their cause and expect me to constantly acquiesce or be labelled as a 'radical'.
Whatever. The left persists with a chimera of non violence while they amass ammo and armaments while constantly telling me I have no need for anything more than a breach-loading shotgun. Why? The same folks arming themselves with 'smart weapons' tell me I'm unbalanced for wanting to possess far lessor arms. We have only to look at history to see this is just another example of same ol' same ol'. Every time the sheep are left unarmed the wolves pounce. Every time. Ignore this at your peril.

[Walt]

What do we hear today? Once again, "O" tries to go around Congress to impose
MORE anti gun laws, at the expense of "private" medical information.
No wonder government wants total control of our health care, and all the private info that goes with it. " Can we take guns from this guy? His medical info is in question. He went to a psychologist 25 years ago... YUP!! Send in the SWAT team" ( and they have)

[Ben Emery]

George,
This is where progressives are with Obama on so many issues.

"Obama promised change, but rather than just more of the same, the picture has actually gotten worse and will continue that way with the TPP. A once-thought champion of the average American conducted backdoor deals that benefit corporations and are a detriment to the very people he promised to help and protect. Therefore, is Obama a fraud?"
http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2014/01/obama-fraud-tpp/

Mike Papantonio on Trans Pacific Partnership
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAxE6Dv4Kwc

[Account Deleted]

Hey Ben - check out Daily Kos once in a while. They are still sucking up for him big time. The left would vote Obama back into office for a third term in a heart beat. Obama is totally left wing. He is driving our health care system to what you lefties want. Of course he will destroy the middle class and the poor will suffer. That's what a left wing govt does every time.

[Bill Tozer]

"A government big enough to give you anything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have."
-Barry Goldwater-

[Gregory]

“If your government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is big enough to take away from you everything you have.”

Paul Harvey, 1952

[Bill Tozer]

"Some people claim Jefferson said it. No, me lord, he did not. Others give credit to Davy Crockett. That is not correct, me lord. We are grieved to discover this new dastardly internet machine is a wealth of inaccuracies and misquotes, Sire."

Sir Lord Baltimore while gripping the farting post, 1793.

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/government_big_enough_to_give_you_everything_you_want_is_big_enough_to_take

[Ben Emery]

George,
To tag onto my voter suppression point of my authoritarian ..... rants. Expanding voters rights is what we want to be doing not retracting them. I just found this piece from last year that talks about South Carolina and its really bad ALEC model legislation Voter ID law.

North Carolina Passes the Country’s Worst Voter Suppression Law
http://billmoyers.com/2013/07/30/north-carolina-passes-the-countrys-worst-voter-suppression-law/

excerpt

"Here are the details of everything bad about the bill, via North Carolina Policy Watch. It’s a very long list: http://www.ncpolicywatch.com/2013/07/23/the-evil-symmetry-of-the-2013-session/

- The end of pre-registration for 16 & 17 year olds
- A ban on paid voter registration drives
- Elimination of same day voter registration
- A provision allowing voters to be challenged by any registered voter of the county in which they vote rather than just their precinct
- A week sliced off Early Voting
- Elimination of straight party ticket voting
- A provision making the state’s presidential primary date a function of the primary date in South Carolina
- A provision calling for a study (rather than a mandate) of electronic candidate filing
- An increase in the maximum campaign contribution to $5,000 (the limit will continue to increase every two years with the Consumer Price Index from the Bureau of Labor Statistics)
- A provision weakening disclosure requirements for ”independent expenditure” committees
- Authorization of vigilante poll observers, lots of them, with expanded range of interference
- An expansion of the scope of who may examine registration records and challenge voters
- A repeal of out-of-precinct voting
- A repeal of the current mandate for high-school registration drives
- Elimination of flexibility in opening early voting sites at different hours within a county
- A provision making it more difficult to add satellite polling sites for the elderly or voters with disabilities
- New limits on who can assist a voter adjudicated to be incompetent by court
- The repeal of three public financing programs
- The repeal of disclosure requirements under “candidate specific communications.”

[Ben Emery]

I would consider places and organizations like Daily Kos and MoveOn arms of the Democratic Party. Here is the thing, you guys cannot stop referring to everything in a two choice scenario it is either A or B. It is not. And you are not alone a vast majority of Americans who vote have been taught to believe the same thing.

Progressives are not inline with the Democratic Party on most major issues. If you go back and look closely there was a huge progressive movement for about 50 years that set up the New Deal and the progressive era of the 1940's through the 1960's. Eugene Debbs (hero) was one of the most visible of that movement. Most liberals don't even recognize the difference. Progressives and liberals have lots of overlapping on issues but have very different ideas. I would argue the Tea Party movement and the Republican Party are just the same. The difference the Tea Party ideas have been relatively under the radar since the 70's since much of the policies of the US shifted towards the right side of the aisle but John Birch Society expanded and morphed into bunches of sub groups like the Heritage Foundation, CATO, ALEC, Heartland Institute, and many more. There also was the establishment right wing neo cons groups such as PNAC and American Enterprise Institute that got their candidate and 1% doctrine with George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby, and so on.

As all of these things developed and fell into place what happened is money became the kingmaker once again and our government is up for sale. Unfortunately for all of us extracting fossil fuels, clear cutting rainforests, and speculation on the world’s commodities pays a whole lot more than conservation and drum circles. So we have the best government money can buy.

My facebook post from today

The best investment money can buy, The Democratic and Republican Parties. Lets not forget when we are talking about the US Government we are really talking about the two major parties that control the levers and rules of our government. The government is supposed to represent our interests but it has been morphed into the interests of the two parties and their major funders.

http://www.republicreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ROI.jpg

[Ben Emery]

Finger spasm Debs not Debbs

[fish]

I would consider places and organizations like Daily Kos and MoveOn arms of the Democratic Party. Here is the thing, you guys cannot stop referring to everything in a two choice scenario it is either A or B. It is not. And you are not alone a vast majority of Americans who vote have been taught to believe the same thing.

Sorry Ben.....you're a progressive so they (Daily Kos, MoveOn, MSNBC, Soros et al) are on your side....your "tar baby" if you will. You never miss on opportunity to staple the likes of FAUX News, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, TEAM AUTHORITARIAN etc...to your "opponents"! If they even hint at being aligned with your "faith" you're stuck with them.

Enjoy!

PS: How bout Sister Melitha's racist rant on MSNBC the other day.....I mean really....how embarrassing for one of the flock to tarnish the progressive brand like that.....You'd think she was a cast member of some demented proglodyte version of Duck Dynasty!

[Todd Juvinall]

fish, thanks for putting BenE in his place with his pals. I am amazed that he, a self described, "smarter than the average bear" would align himself with those people and organizations. If he only paid attention.

[Account Deleted]

Ben - the folks at Daily Kos would be amused to find they are just a bunch Tea Partiers according to you. Ben is the party of one. It would be helpful if you could enlighten us with actual concrete platforms you stand for. Not just "I want world peace". And please no plans such as "getting the money out of politics". Something doable and Constitutional, please.
Having to show ID when you vote is hardly voter suppression. Would it be too big a deal for you? Why? If a person can't be bothered to get a free ID card, I would say they are in no position to claim they really want to vote. If I have to open the door at the polling place, is that voter suppression? After all - it is an obstruction to my access to the polling place.

[fish]

I now expect a patented "Ben Emery Link Ladened Post" about something completely off topic...........

[George Rebane]

BenE 819am - Ah yes, "Expanding voters rights is what we want to be doing not retracting them.", and your quoted list says it all - voting for the American progressive is ever a kumbayah enterprise for all who can be cajoled into voting, no matter how, where, or when.

As made clear in these pages, my support is for increasing the number of informed certifiable citizens who would vote. The obverse of that is to not encourage the informationally empty and/or cognitively disabled to unwittingly leverage the ballot box objectives of the clever demagogues and the unscrupulous.

[Account Deleted]

Oh - sorry I missed this one in the first reading - "An expansion of the scope of who may examine registration records and challenge voters". Yes, we only want a secret cabal of the "powers that be" to see what's going on. So - Ben is for less transparency and more secrecy at the polls. The party bosses love useful tools like you, Ben. Hard for more voter fraud when just any old citizen can ask to see what is going on. Can't have that. A good citizen just does what he's told and doesn't start poking his nose into what is actually going on.

[fish]

- voting for the American progressive is ever a kumbayah enterprise for all who can be cajoled into voting, no matter how, where, or when.

That's because for progressives voting is an act of worship....an acknowledgement their supreme being (the state) as it were!

Always gotta expand the flock, eh Ben?

[Ben Emery]

Scott and Fish,
The party of one, funny. Actually I put the Tea Party and progressives in the same boat not Daily Kos/ MoveOn.

Talk about Sheeple, you guys are so far up the ass of the Republican Party you don't even realize it. That is why we are generally speaking totally different languages. I don't automatically speak the spoon fed Democratic or Republican bs. One day the light will shine on you and when that day happens you will never be able to view the world the same way. Until that day happens I will continue to separate the sheeple political views from the independent political views.

"Free" is a matter of interpretation. When a person works a low wage job with little ability to leave during business hours and transportation obtaining a "free" id is much more difficult than you think. True poverty is lost on you, which is one of the big influences on your worldview.

As far as the off topic links and issues, get the host of this blog to have a place to expand topics. Or do we just wait for George to post something on voter id again?

[fish]

Right back to doing what you you accuse others of doing.

I'm not a republican Ben...not for years! Yet for the temerity of disagreeing with "Young Ben Emery - Political Theoretician", I have to be lumped into this category for the narrative to work!

As Todd would say....too funny!

[fish]

As far as the off topic links and issues, get the host of this blog to have a place to expand topics. Or do we just wait for George to post something on voter id again?

My observation is that when you get realllly spun up about an issue and the opinion of the board seems to in opposition to your position this is how you attempt to spin out of it.

Just sayin.....

[fish]

Until that day happens I will continue to separate the sheeple political views from the independent political views.

"Blessed" with the final revelation, eh Ben?! What a special responsibility!

[Walt]

Speaking of vote suppression, Our troops sure got hosed. Most of those votes never saw the light of day. That's even IF they got a ballot in the first place.
I guess "voting" in the military falls under the law of the UCMJ about " no enlisted, or officer can speak ill of the commander in chief, or civilian authority" (Or something close to that) It's been a while...
Yes, our troops give up many a right when they sign on the bottom line.
Voting shouldn't be one of them. Their vote should be encouraged, and counted first ( if at all possible) They are the ones dying for "our rights, and freedoms".

[Account Deleted]

Ben - Poverty has nothing to do with it. Please show me an actual example of a person who can not register to vote because they are in poverty. ONE. I used to live in poverty Ben. That's right - I lived below the poverty line. And I had to work. I do know what I'm talking about. The only difference was attitude. You can't buy it and you can't get it from a govt program. My attitude was that I would somehow get things done and get a better job. I can assure you the high powers in the Republican Party would throw me out in a heart beat. Please show me an example of how I am more for the Rs and not more in line with the Tea Party.
"One day the light will shine on you" - you mean you might actually give us some proof of all the blather you go on about.
There is no voter suppression. Unless you mean voter fraud suppression.

[fish]

"One day the light will shine on you" - you mean you might actually give us some proof of all the blather you go on about.

I think it really has to be the religious epiphany that I alluded to in an earlier comment......think Moses in "The Ten Commandments" after climbing Mt. Ararat!

[Account Deleted]

Good point about the troops, Walt. I guess I have take back the statement about no voter suppression. The Dems actively suppress the votes of our men and women in uniform every chance they get. The Dems openly tried to have the ballots from naval ships thrown out because there was no post office on board and hence no post mark for the ballots. That is voter suppression.

[Bill Tozer]

Gentlemen and lady: For those of you who are not enlightened like our esteemed Brother Ben from Mount Emery, but are still stumbling and fumbling about about in the darkness, I bring tiding of good cheer. I saw the light. That blessed day has broken forth upon us and spread its wings of joy and healing. The day we, too, saw the light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZakSRqZow8A

[fish]

Bill I envisioned it more like this......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUm6rC0o7Po

[Ben Emery]

You guys keep patting yourselves on the back for keeping those toes on the line and most likely your lives will be comfortable but very unfulfilling.

“Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.”
-Jack Kerouac

“I wore black because I liked it. I still do, and wearing it still means something to me. It's still my symbol of rebellion -- against a stagnant status quo, against our hypocritical houses of God, against people whose minds are closed to others' ideas.”
― Johnny Cash

[fish]

You guys keep patting yourselves on the back for keeping those toes on the line and most likely your lives will be comfortable but very unfulfilling.

Whatever Ben...that only back patting I see here is your routinely patting your own back for any number of positions you see as morally superior. If status signaling to others of like mind is what gets you off...well who am I to judge?

If converting the heathen was your goal I'd say you've failed.

[Ben Emery]

Fish,
Conversion had nothing to do with it. My being here is to expose how morally empty the positions of the four of five minions of Mr Rebane, which I have done quite successfully. I might have been somewhat of a smug asshole in the process but as the saying goes "when in rome do as the romans do"

[Gregory]

While Kerouac was a great novelist, one probably shouldn't take one's lessons on life, the universe and everything from a schizoid alcoholic who died of that malady, helped along by a lingering injury from a bar fight.

Cash wasn't an example to live by, either.

I do see why our resident scrapper Ben disagrees.

[Gregory]

"I might have been somewhat of a smug asshole in the process" -Ben

"Might"?

[fish]

Fish,
Conversion had nothing to do with it. My being here is to expose how morally empty the positions of the four of five minions of Mr Rebane, which I have done quite successfully. I might have been somewhat of a smug asshole in the process but as the saying goes "when in rome do as the romans do"

Conversion has everything to do with it as modern progressivism is merely an extension of the early puritan notion of "bringing heaven down to earth" (You might want to look up Moldbug...he's a terrible writer but a remarkably canny historian..if you can slog through his prose you might learn why your political positions are such a compulsion). "Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? And where is the place of my rest?”

....which I have done quite successfully.

The Dunning-Kreuger effect in full flower. You never disappoint!

I see nothing morally superior about using the force of government to appropriate the property of others so you can feel better about yourself Ben. But I understand the self congratulations...if I had put forth as many feeble, empty arguments as you have I'd pat myself on the back, declare myself victorious and depart the field too!

[Todd Juvinall]

OK, I have been gone all day consuming. Whole lot of consuming goin on as that old Senator from South Carolina used to say. (democrat too)

So, I read the comments and I must say thanks to Ben Emery. Without his constant vigilance and critiques of we four or five on the RR blog, the whole world would be in jeopardy. Thanks BenE for keeping me in line and obedient.

Regarding voter suppression. Al Gore tried it big in 2000. He cherry picked, or requested the Florida Supremes to allow him to cherry pick, counties he actually won! He wanted to find some missing boxes of democrat ballots in just a few counties. He suppressed all the rest of the Florida counties voters in the process. Al Gore wand John Kennedy two peas in a pod. BenE thinks a person in poverty is less smart and capable of obtaining a ID I pay for for them then someone with more spendable cash. I say BRAVO BenE, you are the plantation master. Those poor folks just can't succeed unless you, their massa, allows them to. I would suggest you are the most patronizing racist on these blogs for that attitude. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Bill Tozer]

I feel bad for my Brother Ben. Its like he saw a color out his window nobody has seen before. He patiently and sometimes a wee bit irritably tries to explain to us the wonders of this new color, over and over again. The problem is only he can see it. Must be quite frustrating for my Brother Ben.

At least the cloak of pretense has be removed. Brother Ben comes here not to describe this wondrous color he has seen nor draw us a picture of its splendid hue, but rather to cast stones at us morally bankrupt ones who cannot see this fabulous color. (Once you have had this color, there is no turning back). I hear it is marvelous, simply marvelous.

Brother Ben, we who are so cursed with blindness are the ones most in need of your understanding, not your righteous indignation. Those who are well do not need the physician.

I guess until we see what Ben saw out his window, all we have are simpletons like Dr. Walter Williams.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1463681_10151811117700911_388722801_n.jpg

[Account Deleted]

Bad boy Ben (the rebel)pops up here and fabricates all sorts of stories. When I ask for proof he comes back with this -"You guys keep patting yourselves on the back for keeping those toes on the line and most likely your lives will be comfortable but very unfulfilling."
What do know about my life Ben? Nothing, obviously. But not knowing anything doesn't stop small minded bigots like you that judge everyone by whether or not they follow your delusions.
Keep posting here. You tell us funny stories.

[Todd Juvinall]

ScottO, you hit the nail on the head. BenE is a man of privileged. He was a silver spooner. Hell, I was so poor when I was 20, had a daughter and a wife, living in a hotel room, that we had to eat escargot from the lawn outside. Hell, we were so poor I had to steal milk for my daughter from the neighbors cow that I milked at 3AM. Hell, we were so poor....

Point being, BenE never experiences even that but we are all privileged becasue we are WHITE. He is simply a bone headed liberal know-it-all liberal whiner.