A Conservetarian Credo (updated 17dec16)

George Rebane

From time to time readers ask me questions about my ideology concerning this issue or that.  I believe I have answered almost all of those questions either in the 2,000+ posts on RR and/or marbled in the 42K+ comments that this forum has garnered.  However, since this is a place that attempts to dissect some pretty hairy issues, and we do try to hold each other’s feet to the fire when it comes to being consistent, if not coherent, during our debates, therefore it may be convenient if your host’s socio-political ideology, or structured belief system, or simply credo were to be found in one place.

I have perused my writings and a lengthier personal credo to assemble a first rough cut at what I call a ‘conservetarian credo’.  I know of no other commentator who has presented such a structured and explicit compendium of their ideology.  You can download the pdf here - Download A Conservetarian Credo_161217 .  As witnessed by its version date, this will be a living document added to and amended as new data becomes available, as I learn more, and as the error of my ways are made apparent to me.  I have maintained a written credo for some considerable time now (with more categories than socio-political), and have been very interested to see how it has evolved with the years.  I believe it to be a profitable undertaking and recommend it to others.

Also over the years, and specifically during the life of RR, I have made the strong statement that collectivists (especially our American collectivists) of whatever stripe always shun invitations to openly publish a document outlining their comprehensive socio-political beliefs.  I base this conclusion on experience and the simple reason that such collectivist tenets will inevitably be drawn from embarrassingly banal ‘motherhood and apple pie’ platitudes, or alternatively that their specificity will  prematurely expose things better left unsaid until a time when most collectivist goals are fait accompli.  In any event, my invitation to publish the credo of any of our left-leaning readers stands, and more strongly I remain forever intrigued with what a self-proclaimed middle-roader might fill such pages now that 40% of country claims to be so situated.

Comments

[Al]

Reb Bane - You writings always give a received radar reflection to two favored books " Earth Abides" by George R. Stewart and "Ecotopia" by Ernest Callenbach.

May you continue to be a constructive force of nature.

[fish]

See Paul...property owners do have a few remaining rights!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/18/sc-pub-sparks-outrage-sign-calling-gun-owners-lose/

[Walt]

Fish.. I went to Texas a while back. There are signs posted on every business
if a weapon is allowed or not. I don't recall see many " no guns allowed".
Even the hotel we stayed at was "gun friendly".
But LIBs sure got brave going after small children who made the mistake of
just pointing a finger. Or eating their pop tart into the shape of a hand gun
just as the jack booted teacher walked by.

[fish]

If I recall correctly Paul was concerned that the right to carry would trump the right of a property owner to disallow weapons on their property. In the end common sense prevailed.....

[Walt]

Can't argue with that.. If a shop owner doesn't want patrons to "pack", I do believe that's his/her right, and most would honor that without gripe. ( there is always some that would complain)
It's the thugs and goons that are out to rob the joint business owners need to worry about. A lot of good a sign would do.

[fish]

Hell Walt in a civilized world you oughta be able to check a firearm like checking a hat! Unfortunately though, a suggestion like this would undoubtedly lead to undies wedging ever so tightly in ass cracks among some of our societies more delicate and sensitive members!

[Walt]

Funny you mention " checking it at the door".
Grand Dad did that all the time when living in Mariposa Co.
Going to town hall meetings, or large public events. They DID have
a weapon depository at times. Back then there was no question if you had one or not,
Even Grandma packed a "lady's" Colt. ( what I would give to have that gun in family custody.)

Nope,, I don't think that would work today, Like you said, someone would have "kittens"..
There are SO many "maybes"," ifs" "could" "might" "possibly" that happen.
Not that they ever would. Those reasons alone justify " NO! "
( Kinda like allowing mining.)

[Joe Koyote]

In a civilized world, a person wouldn't need to pack a firearm in the first place. Our world is technologically advanced but hardly civilized.

[Walt]

Good try Joe, good try. "man" has kept the peace WITH arms. That goes back to the days of throwing rocks. History has also shown that the " pacifists" of those vary same times were enslaved or killed.
So conceder yourself lucky in today's age of being un civilized.
No unicorn utopia is ever going to exist. Time to face the facts.

And "O" has done SO well with that pesky Russian problem. WOW! a select few of Ruskys get their money frozen as "sanctions".. YA!,, That'll show'm!
So what does Putin do just for fun? " Right back at ya' Comrade...ha ha...."
Putin "sanctions" Warren Buffet, George Soros, Gates, Clintons, and a more!
All "O" and LIB "big money" and "big politics".
Putin has "O" by the short and curlys, and kicking the U.S. around and making us look like fools to the world. And where does "O" go? Golfing, and the big Mooch is off on vacation abroad again, and on our buck. ( China is it?)

[fish]

In a civilized world, a person wouldn't need to pack a firearm in the first place. Our world is technologically advanced but hardly civilized.

Perhaps your side could pass some more legislation requiring everything "to be just dandy".

[Todd Juvinall]

JoeK, Ukraine unilaterally disarmed back during the dissolution of the USSR. In exchange they were guaranteed sovereignty and non aggression by the Russian Federation. They also demilitarized their country and gave up their arms (including their nukes) in exchange for non aggression. Do you think that was a wise move now that Russia has annexed their province of Crimea?

[Joe Koyote]

Just what exactly is "my side"? Once again you are politicizing a politically neutral statement. Given the war, violence, and greed on the front pages everyday, how can anyone claim earthlings are civilized? That people say they are arming themselves for protection seems to tell the whole story. Why would a person need protection in a civilized society?

[fish]

Just what exactly is "my side"? Once again you are politicizing a politically neutral statement. Given the war, violence, and greed on the front pages everyday, how can anyone claim earthlings are civilized? That people say they are arming themselves for protection seems to tell the whole story. Why would a person need protection in a civilized society?

Mea Culpa Joe.....I seem to be reading more into your statements then is actually there again.

[Todd Juvinall]

OK JoeK, just checking. Could you give us all a definition of a civilized society and tell us if there are any people's or countries you believe are "civilized"?

[Walt]

Joe.. Take stock in UFOs? They must be more advanced in civility too... Right?
What's a human or two getting probed now and then..? Up for the examination?

Speaking of getting probed,, see the word out of the EPA? ( and Joe's hero)
A know nothing gov. employee wrote many an EPA reg.,, and followed "the end justifies the means" philosophy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/19/author-epa-playbook-report-claims-notorious-fraudster-was-behind-costly-epa/

Funny.. it's the same guy who passed himself off as an undercover CIA guy.
Yup,, good ol' Beale is the hero of all ECO nutjobs. Just like the fake scientist our own CARB hired because he "played ball" in the Lefty's favor.

Bogus laws written by fraudsters to push an agenda. Facts be damned when the end justifies the means. Right Joe??

[Joe Koyote]

Todd-- Do you think we live in a civilized world? If so, please name a civilized country or people.

[Account Deleted]

We certainly don't have a 'civilized' fed govt.
http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/17/feds-raid-gun-parts-stores-despite-court-order/#ixzz2wPQ98hGv
How does a govt expect us to obey a court order when they obviously won't?
Not the first time, either. Most citizens don't seem to care, though.
In line with George's theme for this post, perhaps Joe the K can enlighten us as to how we become 'civilized'? My first thought is that we honor and obey our country's supreme law - the Constitution.

[Todd Juvinall]

JoeK, answer mine first. I will answer your points not your question of a question. Is it that you cannot answer because you have no answer? Come on JoeK, it should be easy for you since you are so adamant about the point.

[Walt]

Scott points out one more "right" LIBS decided to resend.
The " right" to build a weapon out of pieces.
Here we go again with the Liberal backed law "enforcers" breaking the law.
Another case of "we deem it illegal". How does that fit in with your "civilized society" Joe?

[Gregory]

"In a civilized world, a person wouldn't need to pack a firearm in the first place. Our world is technologically advanced but hardly civilized." -Koyote

Ah, yes. A world where a strapping 20-something with a rock or a blade is king, and the aged or infirm are at their mercy. In other words, for the theists out there:
"God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal".

Koyote might proceed by letting fly with what country they think is "civilized".

[Walt]

Joe.. Seen the fine upstanding individuals of the "civilized" society in the local paper? From the "perv" in the tree up in San Juan,, to the home invaders who beat up our elders. All to feed their "needs". Ever read the police blotter?
Naaaa... We shouldn't have guns. One of those break-in specialists might get hurt. That's what insurance is for... Right Joe? To replace what those "pillars of the communities" take from us. Just a little " Robin Hood" action right?
Think they rob the same places twice? ( only if they know there is no gun on the premises.) Ya' better hope your not next on their list.
Maybe the sign on my gate that reads " Beware of gun totting redneck" has kept me safe all this time.
Put up a sign that states that your anti gun Joe for all to see. Let's see who gets robbed first. Why not? I'm sure you have good insurance to cover the loss, and you got Obamacare to cover the possible beat down you may get when they come to steal your stuff. ( You know,, those civilized degenerates Lefy's love to defend.)

[Walt]

How is that "civility" going to work out when water and food get rationed in the cities this summer? A good portion of our farmers won't get water to grow crops.
( plenty of water for dope growers I hear)
That Dearly loved Delta Smelt is more important than starving children who will also go thirsty. "Critters" over children... Only in a Liberal "civilized" world. Let that fresh water flow out to sea.
Too bad S.F. didn't tear down Hetch Hetchy when they had the chance... Just a few votes short. Remember. That was all for "pretty". Only LIBS can dream up taking an asset, and turning it into a liability. ( the billions it would take to "restore" little Yosemite into another park.)

You sure stepped in "it" this time Joe. Your going to be busy scrapping your Birkenstocks for a while.

[Joe Koyote]

My my.. It doesn't take much to set off the peanut gallery does it. All I said was that I don't think humanity is all that civilized and you each go off on some tangent that makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever and is completely irrelevant. Good job boys. Do you feel better now that you have vented your anger?

[Brad Croul]

Can you freeze fish? I heard that some fish freeze in lakes during winter and then thaw out the next spring. We could just scoop up a bunch of delta smelt and put them on ice - then start pumping. After the drought is over, thaw the little critters out and we are good to go. I know, that would make too much sense for our legislators.

I really think the better idea would be to follow Amsterdam's example and construct a giant lock under the Golden Gate Bridge. Turn the SF Bay into a freshwater lake.
Bam - problem solved!

[Todd Juvinall]

No anger JoeK. You make statements then dodge answering questions to back them up. Than you use the childhood track of answering questions with questions. It would appear to me you have no answers but a lot of bloviation.

[George Rebane]

Humanity is never a gathering of people of homogeneous attitudes and proclivities. And civilization is equally distributed across a spectrum of well to poorly behaving people. Civilization is maintained by constantly battling the hooligans in the tail of the distribution. Doing so by whatever means - including an armed citizenry - does not mean that we have foregone being civilized, but merely that we continue to value civilization and defend it against eternal assault by the forces of darkness.

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. Koyote: I have said a time or two before that the first male born on this orb known as Earth murdered the second man born, his brother. No, we haven't "come a long way, baby." Don't think his parents had navels.

Seeing all the young people in our Urban Jungles do one of those flash mob stealing frenzies at convenience store and even Box Stores makes me wonder if civilization has become less civilized. When Hitchcock's Dial M For Murder hit the screens people were fainting and passing out in terror in the movie houses. It might appear that the Ozzie and Harriet era was more civilized and it if was, we have become more uncivilized.

Lord of the Flies says it all. Take away authority and you have mankind returning to his primitive nature. As Dr. Rebane pointed out, society always has had scum at the bottom of the barrel. I wholeheartedly agree with you there, Mr. Koyote, "that I don't think humanity is all that civilized." Human nature is what it is and it hasn't changed, just controlled by internal self discipline or external nudges by the judges. Its just one big Skinner Box with too many rats in the cage.

[Michael Anderson]

George wrote: "(C)ivilization is equally distributed across a spectrum of well to poorly behaving people. Civilization is maintained by constantly battling the hooligans in the tail of the distribution. Doing so by whatever means - including an armed citizenry - does not mean that we have foregone being civilized, but merely that we continue to value civilization and defend it against eternal assault by the forces of darkness."

These forces of darkness feed off of your paranoia, ennui, and your relentless search for hooligans at every turn. You are their food. The only thing you have yet to supply to them is the fork and knife. But I'm sure that is coming soon. Tis a pity...

[fish]

These forces of darkness feed off of your paranoia, ennui, and your relentless search for hooligans at every turn. You are their food. The only thing you have yet to supply to them is the fork and knife. But I'm sure that is coming soon. Tis a pity...

This is no way to open the busy commenting season Michael......that reads like a bad Clive Barker (and that's saying something given the quality of his work) passage!

[Gregory]

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Heinlein

Anderson *is* a force of darkness.

[Joe Koyote]

Todd 6:15 -- To be blunt Todd, your question was stupid at best and didn't deserve an answer. I stated that humanity was uncivilized and you asked me to name a civilized country. Duh.. there aren't any.

[Gregory]

" you asked me to name a civilized country. Duh.. there aren't any."

Not even Switzerland?

[Walt]

Seen the "winners" in the paper today? Kidnapping of all things... HERE!!
Seems a certain part of society forgot how to teach their young right from wrong. ( lack of discipline at home and at school) Religion has been vilified by the Left. So much for the fear of God that kept our forbearers on the somewhat straight and narrow.
We can't lock up those that do us harm, we installed revolving doors in our jails.
LIBS made it perfectly clear. " Go ahead and do the crime.. WE will make sure you don't do the time." Great message Lefty's. Thank the LIB judges who turn the criminals loose upon us. Prison has turned into adult "daycare". Cable TV, Internet, " prisoner's bill of rights".
Allowed to sue for any reason under the Sun.
LIBS should watch more episodes of " COPS " to view their handiwork.

HELL!!! We have government enforcers who disregard the rules of law, and even court orders. ( The FEDS raid gun stores for customer records even after a judge said NO!)

So our kids grow up seeing laws broken and little is done about it.
No wonder they get the idea they can go do that too and "get away with it".

If things have become less "civilized",, we can point the fingers at Progressive Liberalism. This is THEIR doing.

[Todd Juvinall]

Golly JoeK, I was always taught there were no dumb questions so I guess you are stumped about mine and had to dodge it. If I were you I would check off the planet since there is no "civilized "people left, not even you apparently.

[Joe Koyote]

Not even Switzerland? --You mean the country that specializes in hiding and laundering illegal money, stashing treasure the Nazis stole from the Jews and other financial misdeeds?

[Joe Koyote]

" If I were you I would check off the planet" Todd, are you suggesting I kill myself? Pretty uncivilized of a retort.
And yes, I am stumped at your question. Please explain what you meant and what you were looking for in a response? Was this some kind of clever word trap where if I named a country then you could attack my premise that humanity is uncivilized and if I didn't answer then you could attack me for not answering? Either way you win.. good one Todd.

[Gregory]

The country of Switzerland doesn't do that, JK (11:45), and from all accounts it's a very pleasant and low crime place to live.

Now, is that despite all the machine guns in private hands, or is that one of the reasons for the public civility?

[Walt]

Joe.. I can find many a LIB right here in the U.S. that fit your "description" of the Swiss. Clean up your own house before pointing fingers at others. George Soros ( a BIG Lefty) is right in the middle of that. We have state government agencies that have stashed "illegal" funds.
Hell... Who needs the Swiss when we have Ca. doing the same thing?
Then when someone finds "treasure" ( just in the news) the state and Feds demand their cut. ( if the "finder" is lucky he/she may retain 30%)
Yaa... Gripe about the Swiss. Never mind "O" and Co. and their Wall St. pals. They make the Swiss look like armatures.
BTW.. The American Nazi Party backs Democrats.

[Todd Juvinall]

Sorry JoeK, if you can't figure it out I will let you drift. Amazing!

[Walt]

Gregory.. JoKe doesn't realize that the Swiss mandate ownership of automatic weapons by their citizens. It is commonplace to see young adults peddling around on bikes with an M4 or like weapon on their back.
They have NEVER trusted Germany or the Russians. And that includes today.

[Michael Anderson]

That all ya got Greggy? You can do better than that. Come on, dredge up some of the darkest bile in your Bitter Bucket and really have at it.

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. Anderson, so nice of you to come back here and I must add in such fine form. So, where did you stash that Mayalsian Airplane? Inquiring minds want to know :)

Mr. Walt (11:26am): Concerning the revolving door of society's misbehaved, I am beginning to realize that it is the bleeding heart judges that are the real repeat offenders.

I can be civil and even civilized at times, but my strong self discipline and extrordinary will power prevents me from becoming at slave to it.

[Bill Tozer]

Ok, let's bash the Swiss. If the Swiss are so civilized, why did they need to invent the Swiss Army knife? Hmmmm.

I once picked up a girl while galavanting across Euroland back in the day who I thought was Swedish. Got all excited. Then later after I drunk myself sober, I realized she said she was Swiss not Swedish. Then it all made sense. Wound tighter than a Swiss watch.

[Gregory]

Mike, I'm just looking forward to your meltdown when Obamacare flames out.

You never did answer that sticky question... do you have Republican clients? If so, how do you compartmentalize that hostility of yours?

[Michael Anderson]

There you go again Greg, just can't help yourself trying to bring my personal business into the blogs. But without having any of your own personal business worth mentioning, I understand why you do this.

Well, I guess my time is up once again on the most unmediated blog on planet Earth. I'll be sure to check in every now and then to see how your echo chamber is getting along. Have a great year fellas.

[Todd Juvinall]

Greg, Michael was asking personal information from fish on my blog. I guess he forgot.

[Michael Anderson]

Todd, that was personal information from fish regarding his employment that he has previously offered to discuss many times. I doubt you missed those conversations--it's the very reason why he is "fish" instead of using a real name.

That's the difference: I sign my real name and have made it abundantly clear that slurring my personal affairs, unless I have offered them up for discussion myself, is off limits. It's the same thing you guys do to Jeff Pelline over here. It's just plain bad manners. It also makes you look like creeps.

But believe whatever you want, Todd. I realize how hard it is to keep all of this straight when you have a head full of rocks.

[fish]

Greg, Michael was asking personal information from fish on my blog. I guess he forgot.

Nahhh....he was just trying to score cheap indignance points because I have and will likely continue to post from work. If only he knew that those moments are the least expensive I have during my day.....pointless high dollar phone calls.....multiple useless meetings (and rest assured...we routinely stuff multiple millions worth of salary and benefits into meetings that are little more than time killing reruns) ...all more onerous to the taxpayer than me dropping a blog comment while on hold for the deputy yahoo from the State Department of Blah Blah Blah!

My guess was that Michael just woke up from his winter hibernation fully loaded with a combination of Scandinavian angst and poorly directly lefty "I've suddenly discovered I'm a taxpayer" syndrome.

I'm sure his mood will improve once spring training is finished and the regualr season starts....I know mine will!

Speaking of paying taxes....anybody else writing a check this year instead of getting a refund with no change in financial status?

[Todd Juvinall]

It cracks me up that the Burning Man nut gets all upset when anyone talks about him and his proclivities but we would not know any of that if he did not tell us. I posted a very polite comment up a couple from here yet the BM-P had to attack me and the rest. What does that say about him? My guess is he gets his money from taxpayer grants and loans so FISH, [pay those taxes man so he can survive. LOL!

[Joe Koyote]

I stand corrected. The country of Switzerland does not engage in financial misdeeds, it just passes laws that allows banks to engage in financial misdeeds. That makes them civil. So do machine guns. How you folks turned this into a discussion of gun ownership is beyond me. There is more to civility than owning guns or not. Just so some of you don't waste your time going off again, I am not questioning your right to own guns (I own a couple of shotguns myself). The fact that people need guns for reasons other than hunting food, to me, is highly uncivil. That's all.

[Todd Juvinall]

So JoeK, tell us your criteria for civility and where you think we can find it.

[Gregory]

mandersonation, you've been getting down and dirty since you first started trying to smear me as a climate brownshirt at the late The Union blogs, back when Pelline was running that show, as has Jeff's attack poodle from NSJ. Don't ask for it and then whine when you get it.

It also remains a fair question; how do you compartmentalize your periodic call to jihad against some facet of what you think of as the right wing against your business of tech support? IT services for everyone? Really?

Pelline's fantasies of persecution are just that. He needs that fantasy for the victim status he wraps himself with; cheaply bought sympathy and absolution from having thrown the first stone.

[Gregory]

"How you folks turned this into a discussion of gun ownership is beyond me"-Koyote

Maybe it was how you started it:
"In a civilized world, a person wouldn't need to pack a firearm in the first place."

Some people only act in a civil manner when they expect there would be swift retribution were they to be uncivil, so it is more likely in any civilized world some significant portion of the population will be "packing".

[Gregory]

" The country of Switzerland does not engage in financial misdeeds, it just passes laws that allows banks to engage in financial misdeeds."

The Swiss think financial information is as private as that of patient-doctor or client-lawyer communications. Is that so bad? It should take a court order for anyone, including a government bureaucrat, to get at any of those files.

[Walt]

Now to really light a fire under the likes of Joe and Mike. ( A new morning zoo radio pair?)
A few of us "money bags" Conservatives need to pool our money and buy the Empire mine from the state. I know a guy who knows a guy who can get the mineral rights back from Newmont.
A meeting or two with our broke state, even reopening in record time could be bought for a few extra bucks.
Seems selling a state park or two to finance the retiree pensions is the "new answer".

But when you hear the Calif. Left talk, they say the "state has turned around, and is doing SO much better".
Really? Then explain why selling state parks to rake in a buck.

[Joe Koyote]

Todd -- How about "do unto others" as a starter for civil behavior. We find that in ourselves. Governments and religions do not create nor dictate civility. In fact more often than not they condone and engage in incivility. How many wars have been fought for political and religious reasons? If you have no no soldiers you will have no wars and the theologians, politicians and generals who so readily send other people's kids off to die will have to go out on the battlefield themselves. Then see how many wars there are. All people have to do is "just say no!"

Gregory- I am not disputing the need for personal protection. Once again, all I am saying is that the need for protection indicates humanity, as a whole, in 2014 is still uncivilized. Nowhere did I say you couldn't have your guns only that in a civilized world we shouldn't need them. I don't understand why that is even debatable other than I am perceived as a "lefty" and therefore everything I say is subject to dispute "just because" "righty" ideology demands it.

[Todd Juvinall]

JoeK, of course "do unto others" is a times old saying which I agree with. My question is where do we find it? You did not answer that part.

Regarding religion and wars/ Yes all religions were guilty and some still are in using their beliefs to gain control. Christianity seems to have let up a couple of centuries ago and Islam now is the culprit. But, what about atheists? Putin seems to be making war on his neighbors and he does not believe in any GOD. Same for Hugo when he was alive. How about the midget in North Korea? Please tell us where we can find your hope for civility in a country on the planet.

[Walt]

Joe has spent too much time with the Unicorns.
Everything must be daisy's and lollypops in "his" world.

The world is a dangerous place. It has been since it started spinning.
It's kill or be killed. Just ask the Lions in Africa.
Joe needs to understand " peace through strength" Threaten me with harm, and suffer the consequences. LIBS need to understand that needs to be backed up by overwhelming, swift action. Jesse Jackson must have actually
cut off "O"'s boys,, since "O" is ALL talk and NO action.( except run and hide) "O" really showed Putin... Didn't he??

Maybe Joe can really tell us why the Japanese didn't invade the U.S.
( according to the captured high command of the imperial army, GUN OWNERSHIP in just about every home was a great deterrent in that decision)
Yet they swept over every poorly armed civilization and turned them into slaves. Do a little reading of history Joe, and not the LIB "revised" editions.

[Gregory]

Koyote, we obviously have incompatible definitions of "civilized". I think yours requires some species besides homo sapiens as the basis.

I'm no "righty", but your apparent idealism, that were we only sufficiently civilized people would be nicer than they have shown a capability for in the past, is a peculiarly lefty position. New Progressive Man?

[Walt]

Joe. Sign up for the Mars colony. I don't think you will need to worry
about that pesky gun ownership thing you take issue with.
A new world where everyone is "equal". ( except the one calling the shots)
The "new age" commune if you will. Everyone gets an equal share, no matter how little they contribute to the grand scheme.( Like suffer boy who doesn't work, but buys lobster tail with food stamps..." why work when I can get it for free?")

So here is your chance for the "no conflict" utopia.
I hope you like the indoors. I hear that "cabin fever" can be a real bich.

Remember not to " P.O." the people of Earth. WE will be the ones supplying your every need.

Oh,,, Wait a minute,, mining will need to take place on Mars. Will that be "green mining"? At least permits will not be needed. ( for the moment)
Nope,, the ECO crew that wants to be part of that mission will have none of that.. Mars must stay "pristine".

Ya,, thinks may be rough up there. How to get what you need without messing up the beauty of a dead planet.

[Gregory]

"That's the difference: I sign my real name and have made it abundantly clear that slurring my personal affairs, unless I have offered them up for discussion myself, is off limits." -Michael P. Anderson

That wasn't a slur of your "personal affairs", Mike, that was asking how your personal affairs might intrude into your customers personal affairs.

Michael has been defaming me personally for years, I've always used my real name, and why he seems to think anything Gregory is fair game while his life is off limits is beyond me. Asking him if he has GOP clients after he announces a search and harass mission against Bush II supporters (thank goodness that isn't me or I'd be quaking in my boots-not) seems not a slur but a valid and reasonable follow up question. Someone who is in the business of managing the computers of individuals and companies should be able to rationally defend their hostility to Republicans while making a case their customer's information and privacy is secure no matter his hate for them. It's also nothing new; he wrote an ugly and threatening screed to the Chronicle columnist Debra Saunders that was eerily similar to the ugly and threatening screed aimed at me that he posted to The Union a few years later. That is who Michael Anderson seems to be; palpably hostile towards people who he disagrees with.

If "That all ya got Greggy? You can do better than that. Come on, dredge up some of the darkest bile in your Bitter Bucket and really have at it" isn't a sincere invitation to get just as personal, what is?

[fish]

.....as has Jeff's attack poodle from NSJ.

Attack poodle?

[Michael Anderson]

Greg wrote: "Someone who is in the business of managing the computers of individuals and companies should be able to rationally defend their hostility to Republicans while making a case their customer's information and privacy is secure no matter his hate for them."

Have I once divulged anything about what you do for a living, or my perceptions regarding this? No, of course not. That would be bad manners. And your query is not really seeking an answer, is it? It's a statement posing as a question--you are accusing me and my employees of not being able provide excellent service to Republicans, a subject about which you know absolutely nothing since I've never met you nor have you ever come to my place of business. It's defamation, pure and simple.

As I've said before the, I long ago investigated the need to use the civil court to end your relentless Quixote-like tilting at whatever your psychopathy warranted. Once I learned that nobody of importance in Nevada County takes you seriously, or cares what you think, well...let's just say that this knowledge saved me a lot of money.

Your poisonous soul doesn't discriminate. Just ask Scott O., who is just the latest victim in the GG-Is-The-Smartest-Boy-In-The-Neighborhood contest. I work hard to have empathy for your unrelenting sadness, Greg. I really do hope someday that happiness and light come your way.

The much larger issue is that George Rebane continues to allow you and others to spew malignant and defamatory hate on this blog. I'm pretty sure that someday the American legal system will put a stop to it. Until then, have at it George. Enjoy your infamy while the sun shines.

[Gregory]

No sadness here, Mike. I'm just good at hitting back and not going overboard. Your manners are atrocious, so stop patting yourself on the back.

"It's a statement posing as a question--you are accusing me and my employees of not being able provide excellent service to Republicans, a subject about which you know absolutely nothing since I've never met you nor have you ever come to my place of business. It's defamation, pure and simple"

No, it was far from defamation. YOU are the one who was making the case that supporters of Bush II needed to be rooted out and made to pay; asking how far YOU would go to do that was a reasonable question. People with good manners don't seek the sorts of retribution you write about, Mike. Give it a rest.

Enjoy.

[Michael Anderson]

Goodnight Greggy. Let's do it all again real soon.

[Russ Steele]

FBI RELEASES LATEST STATISTICS . . . The FBI's release of preliminary Uniform Crime Statistics for the first half of 2013 demonstrates the continuing 30-year downward trend in violent crime is not over, even as firearms production and sales set records. In fact, the crime reductions correspond with a steady increase in the legal demand for firearms as law-abiding American people have sought to exercise their Second Amendment rights and enjoy recreational shooting. The latest ATF figures demonstrate how manufacturers responded to this demand. Read NSSF President Steve Sanetti's blog post HERE: http://www.nssfblog.com/fbi-preliminary-2013-numbers-show-violent-crime-continues-to-drop/

[Gregory]

I slept well, looks like I was in Mike's head as he tried to slumber.

Mike, your continued defamations of me as a sociopath (psychopathy and sociopathy are synonyms) are noted with the observation that it takes a special kind of recklessness to write such things about people who you have never met. Your big problem with me seems to be that I generally only debate topics that I believe my opinion is on solid ground, and I prevail more often than not.

Scott O will probably get over our last exchange, and with luck he won't try to paint me as a Harry Reid sympathizer again. While you showed some growth on the climate change debate (I don't see you ranting about climate brownshirts anymore), I'm looking forward to your meltdown over Obamacare's slide.

[Todd Juvinall]

Russ, with Obama and John Kerry's destruction of the Monroe Doctrine, it is a good thing that the Second Amendment exists and is used by so many Americans. Since the Rooskies are now flexing their muscles and European countries are puss's I would expect that we may see a new "The Russians are Coming, the Russians are Coning" movie again. Inviting the Rooskies to Cuba and Venezuela is not in our countries best interest.

[Walt]

The accusations of "micro-aggression" are next Gregory. ( some needle bending Lefty's demand prosecution of this "new" supposed crime.)

And speaking of crime, Russ points out indisputable facts than MORE GUNS
equates to less crime. ( shoots the LIB stance and fear mongering full of holes.)
Here in Ca. LIBS used excuse after excuse to restrict gun purchases all in the name of "reducing crime". Waiting periods were supposed to do that. ( guess not) Then RINO Arnold banned the .50 BMG. Yet no crime that I can find was ever committed with one.( except the mere possession of one)
Then came the real attack here on the 2ND. Outlawing OPEN CARRY.

More unarmed people have been getting shot by cops lately, yet no prosecution of those trigger happy cops. ( heck.. they don't even get fired.)

[Walt]

Lefty's love to preach " tolerance". ( even thou they are the least tolerant of all.)
THIS LIB (ha) "teacher" show the true colors of Leftyism.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/22/charges-for-prof-who-claimed-moral-right-to-censor-batter-16-year-old-abortion-foe/

Civil rights charges need to be leveled as well. I hope the kid's parents don't settle out of court. It's time radical Liberalism is put on public display, and dragged through the mud, which it rightly deserves.

"Miller-Young, feminist studies professor who specializes in queer theory and pornography"...
And she is PAID for this garbage? Students can find all they like for free on the Internet.
I guess the classes are "filler" for LIB arts credits.

[Walt]

It test time. Which is the real "2ND" Amendment?

"This amendment states that people have the right to certain weapons, providing that they register them and have not been in prison. The founding fathers included the amendment to prevent the United States from acting like the British who had tried to take weapons away from the colonists."

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

I'll give you a guess as to which one is being "taught" in LIB infested schools.
What's a little fib to school children?... What's a little "revisionism" going to hurt, as long as the Progressive agenda gets greased?
" Common core".. History book style.

[Russ Steele]

The Silence Of The Liberals

As conservative we have had many political and scientific discussions with liberal family members, neighbors and friends. They were very vocal when liberal leaders were doing the things they supported, but they all fell silent once these heroic leaders stated to fail. Now Roger Simon writing at PJ Media, noting this is a national trend.

“They [liberals] are bewildered and embarrassed. Some are even ashamed of themselves, not that they will readily admit it. The man who was their hero has now been unmasked in every direction as the worst president since the Civil War and possibly earlier. Not only is he a cheesy liar, everything he has done, domestic and foreign, has failed, sometimes to extraordinary degrees. . . . Hence the silence.”

We have noted a similar silence among our liberal family, neighbors and friends on the success of the President.

[George Rebane]

In case my sentiments about Islam have somehow been misplaced, apropos to this piece on a conservetarian credo it would do well to welcome back one of my favorite Brits.
http://dotsub.com/media/b5ee5ada-5b37-4b0b-9916-e0896337ec4b/embed/eng