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10 August 2014

Comments

fish

I believe I’m not the only one in America who wants the president to act forcefully against an enemy that is the modern equivalent of the Mongol hordes in its ferocity, terror, and determination – an enemy that shares not a shred of our values. However, if any deem me to be some lonely outlier (a constant theme among our litely read progressive brethren), then I’ll gladly wear the mantle with the embroidered ‘Rebane Doctrine’ on its back.

Maybe time for the Chinese or the Europeans (although their finances are even worse than ours) to step up as "World Police".....not our backyard, not our problem anymore!

George Rebane

fish 536pm - a good point. My only concern is that back yards today are more than a bit larger than those of yesteryear.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 10 August 2014 at 05:58 PM

It doesn't matter. We don't have the money, the time, or the moral authority to intervene in every hotspot that crops up in the world. Not any more!

It was a mistake removing Hussein...he was a murderous thug but he kept that area of the mid east stable and he kept his aspirations confined to his own backyard. We screwed up when we decided to "democratize" the place. ISIS or ISIL or whatever the psychopaths who are presently running amuck over there probably would have come into being had we not lit the tinder.

We've done more harm than good there at tremendous cost in American blood, treasure and reputation.

George Rebane

fish 610pm - If we admit that sunk costs don't count, and take the world as it is today - i.e. the risk of an expanded Caliphate wreaking havoc on the west and the US - do we stand on the fine points of "moral authority" before selectively intervening with those who promise to destroy us, or do we react before they again cross our borders? Or do we prepare to stand in the debris of some American city and explain to the survivors about how our lack of moral authority kept us from preventing the next catastrophe that has enveloped us?

Now you can easily take this discussion thread into a new arena by claiming that the withstanding and professed risk assessments are overblown to the extent that my recommended prophylaxis is unwarranted and unneeded.

Account Deleted

fish at 6:10 - "he was a murderous thug but he kept that area of the mid east stable and he kept his aspirations confined to his own backyard."
Whatever your views are on what to do now - S Hussein absolutely did not keep the place stable. He invaded Iran and they fought a bloody war,
including an attack on the Stark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stark_incident
Then he invaded Kuwait, with other countries in his sights bringing on Desert Storm. He openly supported terrorism by paying rewards to the families of suicide bombers. Some of them killed American citizens. He committed genocide by using poison gas against whole villages.
"he kept his aspirations confined to his own backyard"
I guess if you consider the entire mid-east to be Iraq's backyard, you can make that astonishing statement. The modern fuse was lit in 1946 when we backed Israel's establishment. And we finance the whole mess with petro-dollars by the trillions. We don't need the House of Saud's oil, but Europe does and we need Europe to stay semi-afloat, financially. Until the oil money is cut off to the Islamist terrorists, we can expect things to continue to get worse no matter what else we do.

Russ Steele

Scott, nice recap. The left is always trying to re-write history so it matches their vision of what it should have been.

As for Obama, he is not a leader. He has not led anything, including the US for the last six years. Leadership comes naturally to some and for other it needs to be taught, honed and practiced. When has Obama ever had this opportunity beyond failing in his current position. He cannot make decisions. Voters should have recognized this when he kept voting present, rather than support or reject legislation. This was one of my first clues, that he was not going to make a great leader. Our past past Presidents have led organizations and/or had military leadership training. Even natural leaders need to competent advisors and WH the Obama team is is just JV political hacks in big boy t-shirts.

fish

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 10 August 2014 at 06:50 PM

So as an American citizen and more importantly an American taxpayer I'm supposed to keep footing the bill because we never learned to make our enemies fight each other like the Romans did. Hussein has a restive Shia minority that he's concerned about and decides to take on the Iranians for most of a decade. Sounds like a win/win for America to me! What the fuck do I care if he gases whole villages? Unpleasant but not my village!

Biut assuming you're right Scott what's the next move for America...spend another 5 trillion in the desert shithole so we can mint another crop of muslim ISIS screwballs? Europe is importing the mideast just as fast as it can....they're fucked...and they did it to themselves! Sucks to be them!

Why is it up to us to "fix" things in shitholeistan very time?

Russ Steele

Fish

"Why is it up to us to "fix" things in shitholeistan very time?" Because real soon now the religious zealots will be in your back yard. if we do not fix the problem where the root of the poison is, it will come to a city near you. What will be the cost then?

fish

Russ Steele | 10 August 2014 at 08:54 PM

Yes...the "We're going to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" doctrine.....was that before or after the "Mission Accomplished" banner went up?

So what do you recommend (and how much will you budget) to "fix the problem"?

Joe Koyote

It is up to the US to fix everything because we are the thugs for the multinational corporations and, therefore, have to protect their bad investments in politically shaky countries. It's really all about securing natural resources for further exploitation. Something that many of the residents of these countries resent. Of course if a country nationalizes their resources to protect them from foreign exploitation they are labeled "socialist or communist" and thus evil and worthy of military intervention to "spread democracy" which is code for "take over and install a pro-corporation goon government which will sell out their fellow countrymen to the highest bidder."

Joe Koyote

"Because real soon now the religious zealots will be in your back yard. if we do not fix the problem where the root of the poison is, it will come to a city near you."

Right-- just like the waves of communists who invaded our backyards in the 1950's. This is the same old BS rhetoric applied to the new enemy "religious terrorists". The West always seems to need an enemy which needs to be democratized, which is code for taking the wealth of our nation and transferring it to the corporate owners of the military-industrial complex so they can blow crap up and then pretend to rebuilt it all at taxpayer cost.

fish

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 11 August 2014 at 09:12 AM

Then I'll pose the question to you as well Joe.

What do you recommend that the "thug" government do in this instance? Please bear in mind that for the purpose of this exercise that minimizing the cost is important.

Walt

This is priceless.. Yet SO dead on.

"Past Obama is Present Obama’s greatest enemy. Over and over again, Past Obama’s words and actions keep tripping up his future self. Obama says what he means, and he means what he says. And what he means, what he always means, is that he needs to get through the next five minutes. Anything he says at any particular moment is in service of that one and only goal. If it directly contradicts anything he’s said before, or anything he says after, that’s your problem.It’s George Bush’s fault. Everything is.

So what if President Barack Obama takes all the credit when he thinks something is working, but accepts none of the blame when it fails? Objective reality is racist. Leave him alone, teabagger."

From
http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/11/its-not-present-obamas-fault-that-past-obama-pulled-the-u-s-out-of-iraq/

Walt

Look at the bright side Joe,, You live in a country where your religious beliefs
(or lack there of) won't cause you to lose your head at the hands of another who just doesn't agree with you. But we do have PLENTY of "religious terrorists" right here.
They use the courts and the cry " Freedom FROM religion". ( Nevada Co. Socialist Democrat party) HELL!! They even held a sign stating that fact in a Constitution day parade. The vary same that took issue with a cross on a billboard supporting our troops..( remember that?)
Which religion here in the U.S. has demanded " convert or DIE"?
Yet The LIBS in this nation keep appeasing, and making excuses for tyrannical Muslims. ( that peaceful religion ya' know)

George Rebane

fish 931am - I take it that my 633pm was not worthy of a response.

For others worried about the cost of dealing with ISIS in situ, I offer the notion of the savings in US lives and property should the caliphate be allowed to come into being and consolidate in what is now Iraq, Syria, and Jordan (with maybe Kuwait and a few gulf states thrown in). Let us face it (Codebreaker JoeK's views notwithstanding) the policy of containment worked to throughout the Cold War to bring it to a successful conclusion. But only naïfs in extremis believe that there will come a time when peace and love will rule the world. The realworld will always require factions (call them 'good' and 'bad') to contend with one another either commercially or militarily - we recall that if goods don't cross borders, then armies will.

Brad Croul

Let's do the math. Isis is maybe at military division strength, or less, about 7,000 strong. Operation Barbarossa was the largest military operation in world history in both manpower and casualties. Germany attacked Russia. No one is attacking us. Moral equivalent? Isis is just one more band of barbarian religious freaks roaming the desert trying to impose their favorite flavor if Islam.
I saw a picture of an Isis convoy of pickups and SUVs on some desert road. An A-10 Warthog could have easily rained on that parade.
Maybe the chickens**t Iraqi army needs training in IED manufacture.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 11 August 2014 at 10:13 AM

Not at all George.....I confess that I am, on occasion, not the reader I once was.


I'm not terribly concerned about, "the risk of an expanded Caliphate wreaking havoc on the west and the US". Yes they have sworn to destroy us and fly the flag of Islam over the White House….so what….bluster and bullshit is the coin of the realm in the middle east. These morons are much like dogs chasing cars. Once they've succeeded they really have idea what to do next. Running the "caliphate" is not nearly as easy as proclaiming the caliphate.

I’m not sure that significant intervention on the part of the United States through a return to Iraq will in any way prevent your having to, “stand in the debris of some American city and explain to the survivors about how our lack of moral authority kept us from preventing the next catastrophe that has enveloped us?”

I’ve posed the question to Russ and JoKe and I’ll now pose it to you what will bring this situation to a conclusion favorable to the United States and how much are you willing to spend to achieve it?

Bill Tozer

We are going back into Iraq just as soon as the mid-terms have passed or a few months after. Boots on the ground Mr. Koyote. Our beloved forked tongued President feels the pressure to the max. Sure, it's all Bush's fault and blame Chamberlain as well. Obama lied again in the last hours when he said how our intelligence underestimated the blitzkrieg of the ISS from Syria to the outskirts of Bagdad. Bull pucky. We have intelligence on the ground all over that area that has been warning repeatedly this is happening.

With our Narcissist in Chief's big oversized ears, one would think he hears the rolling thunder. But nooooo, he hears but does not listen. He read the polls and ordered the airstrikes the next day, for humanitarian purposes of course. Now the question is can air power alone hold off the ISS juggernaut until the 1st week in November? Amateur Hour on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Hilary just was quoted saying that not working with the moderates in Syria by arming them in the overthrow of Syria's Bad Boy, we "left a vacuum". The Yobama Doctrine has failed again. I know, I know, he is just like Trevon Martin, aka, toast. Now even the Prez of Turkey REFUSES to speak directlyi with Yobama via phone or in person and has delegated that sour task to his foreign minister.

Yo Joe K, sure the commie bastards did not invade our shores. That was then, this is now. Can you name one group of Baptists, Lutherans, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Quakers, Jehovah Witnesses, Amish, or Catholics that are flying planes into buildings filled with civilians. The alphabet soup of Ragheads desires you think they way you do.

Read Dr. Rebanes words and thought of you, Mr. Koyote:
"America’s progressives continue believing that the US and the free world had nothing to fear from international communism, and the Cold War was all a ruse carefully concocted to transfer wealth from America’s middle class to the military-industrial complex during....."

George Rebane

BradC 1143am - You've effectively made the point between Barbarossa and ISIS in Iraq - they are not attacking us now, but promise to in the future. Fewer ragheads from a smaller Al Quada took down the Towers et al. The numbers they currently have is almost immaterial when compared to their successes. The mullahs of Iran were fewer. It is all a matter of how rapidly they can attract followers and compliant supporters within a consolidated working economy. And there are enough countries out there who already support ISIS financially, and more will do so as the consolidate what they have conquered. Our job is to deny such consolidation with whatever it takes.

fish 1145am - As I have described for years (and recently in a comment), there will be no permanent "successful conclusion" if that means that radical Islam withdraws from its war against western civilization - they simply cannot peacefully coexist with us no more than could totalitarian communism. That means that we will be 'forever' fighting a containment campaign against them or their successors. Tyranny and terror have always been and will always be trying to mount the bastions of more liberal and tolerant civilizations. We need to get used to having to spend to maintain a military and strong allies internationally as we need to spend to keep a local constabulary in our counties, cities, and towns. Criminals of all orders have been a permanent threat to civil societies and will continue to do so. Look at it as a maintenance cost for a civilization that perpetuates our liberties, values, and mores. And due to the advances in the technologies of transportation, weapons, and communications, all of Earth is proximal to our borders.

Go look at our Cold War military budgets and their fraction of GDP to get an idea of what we may need to spend. And yes, unless we again permit growth at bygone rates, we will have to sacrifice our QoL to some degree to keep the ragheads (and their successors) out. Were it only to be otherwise.

Walt

Looks like our current lefty posters need to get their info from other sources.
Comedy Central "news" and HBO are leaving them at a real disadvantage.

Maybe if they read about the Muslim prayer rugs and "informational" paperwork that's being found along the Southern boarder. Think the Mexican drug cartels give a rats ass if they help smuggle a few jihadists El Norte? A buck is a buck. Drugs will still be in demand, terror attack or not.
Hell! Boarder patrol is getting heavy machinegun fire from Mexico all the time now.
( cover fire to get something, or someone across the boarder)

Walt

No matter what, this "war" isn't going to stop anytime soon. Just because "O" said " The war,, is over!.. I said so". Well the jihadist's apparently didn't get the memo.

Take Hamas for example. They have been getting their ass handed to them by Israel, yet keep right on firing rockets from schools, and from the middle of civilian crowds.
( Then cry bloody murder)
To the Muslims "holy war" is the national sport. They have no wish for peace.

LIBS and jihadist's do have one thing in common.. " It's our way, or the highway".

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 11 August 2014 at 12:35 PM

Go look at our Cold War military budgets and their fraction of GDP to get an idea of what we may need to spend. And yes, unless we again permit growth at bygone rates, we will have to sacrifice our QoL to some degree to keep the ragheads (and their successors) out. Were it only to be otherwise.

Then we've lost already.....which I think was Bin Ladens hope and plan all along....that we would bleed ourselves dry trying to "fix" the middle east. Going to be interesting to see repeats of the antics in St. Louis when the EBT cards stop working across the country because we pissed away all those trillions in the mid east.

And then we will lose the mid east to ISIS or an ISIS successor anyway.

Walt

Here is something else the " I see nothing" Left cover's their eyes over.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/11/Seven-Year-Old-Jihadi-Poses-With-Severed-Head

You know,,, that "religion of peace" we keep hearing about.

George Rebane

fish 101pm - You are (almost) right if we hamper our GDP growth rate as per progressive policies. With 2% growth rate we will not be able to afford both 'guns and butter' given the current levels of debt (really debt service) and entitlement spending. This is why I have long maintained that we are beyond the tipping point - something must give if we cannot grow at close to 4% (higher when interest rates become real again). I covered this extensively here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/09/the-real-jobs-problem-shhh.html

We are a consumer economy, and consumers stop spending when the country comes under attack (vs when we are doing the attacking elsewhere), then GDP growth plummets. But as I said in my 1235pm, we must accustom ourselves to "bleed" (your term) or maintain (my term) at some sustainable rate in both American lives and treasure, that is the cost of keeping our civilization. Without that commitment we will succumb to the ragheads or some other horde that covets what we have.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 11 August 2014 at 01:30 PM

Civilization requires some measure of discipline...a quality that we seem to be relentlessly eradicating from each succeeding generation. This whole thesis in a broader sense is why I don't have much interest in the State of Jefferson issue. In 10 to 15 years it won't be necessary to split states into smaller entities the real chore will be keeping this nation resembling any of the maps currently in existence today.

I think we're done as a nation...my only solace is that I think it will hit our delicate lefty brethren harder than us!

e.g.

Another episode of urban Olympics: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-ferguson-protesters-attack-police-cars-loot-quicktrip-following-teen-killing-video/

(although I confess to being sympathetic to the spark of this one soemwhat)

and at the risk of descending into soft headed Ben Emery territory and going link crazy....the latest offering from Fred Reed. It is particularly germane to this subject.

http://www.fredoneverything.net/Unstable.shtml

Joe Koyote

Fish - 9:31

In my opinion, the US gov.t for the above stated purposes (previous posts) is sticking its nose, once again, where it really doesn't belong. The religious animosities playing out in the middle east and elsewhere have been going on for centuries. The only reason they are playing out now is because many of the colonial umbrella governments (Russia/soviet union, Britain, France and others) and the local thugs like Saddam that prevented the religious zealots from killing each other have either relinquished control or been eliminated from the picture.

My solution is to let them settle their own affairs and support those, like the kurds, who want autonomy. We don't need their oil, which seemed to provide the previous rationale for intervention. The more the West meddles in mid-eastern affairs the better the "Great Satan" argument sells to the downtrodden. Those evil Chinese Commies are now our biggest trade partner. Give it time and it will all settle down without American intervention and all those evil rag heads will be our bestest trade buddies just like the commies.

Walt

Joe. as far as oil is concerned, we do "need" it. Thanks to our own current government who sees fit to curb production right here at home. If it wasn't for oil and gas found on private property we would be pretty much "dry".
Still no pipeline from Canada either which we could really use.
We are FAR from self sufficient.

Brad

The Ebola Saracensis is coming to get us! Loose the drones!

George Rebane

Brad 311pm - "Saracensis", what a great term you have coined. Bravo!

Now given the incipient Ebola Sarancensis, pray what would be the role of the drones? ;-)

Brad

Haha, I thought that was a cute touch. Glad you got it! Fuel air bomb a la "Outbreak" (the movie)?

fish

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 11 August 2014 at 02:01 PM

So we are largely in agreement then?

Brad Croul

Fish, I don't know. I have not heard ISIS declare war on the "Great Satan". They seem content, for the moment, to keep working on creating an Islamist state of their liking. Al Queda does not seem to be completely aligned with ISIS.
Something that may work in our favor- hate the U.S or not, there is plenty of recent anecdotal evidence in Iraq to show how we can F%@k up a place when we are pissed off.
They must know that if they piss us off again, it will not go well for them. And we might not fix the place up, and choose to just leave them in the stone age.

Walt

" I have not heard ISIS declare war on the "Great Satan".
Just the other day, there was a video released where their spokes goon says "they want to attack us and fly their flag over the White House."

“I say to America that the Islamic Caliphate has been established and we will not stop."

He called for America to halt "cowardly" drone attacks and instead to send soldiers.

“We will raise the flag of Allah in the White House,” he said.

Video here...
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/08/08/new-isis-video-%E2%80%98we-will-raise-black-flag-over-white-house%E2%80%99

"O" and Co. have been proven to be the cowards they are. Thugs and goons like these feed on that.
Good thing we didn't have the likes of "O" in WWII. Russia "talked" with Hitler too.

"O" has been on the wrong side of everything. Recall when he was "all for" the Muslim Bro.hood? Those guys were bad news from the start. Al-Qaida was down and out and " no one to fear". Well, how did that work out?

Nope, "O's Middle East policy has gone up in flames right with the Middle East.
In the mean time "O" and Co. is gutting our military.

Remember when Glenn Beck was still on FOX News? He sure called it, and was right on the mark in his predictions.

Bonnie McGuire

James O'Keefe did it again revealing what needed to be exposed. Here's his revelation regarding our homeland security. It's funny when you think about how easy it's been for us to be deceived by those we're supposed to trust.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/bin-Laden-Obama-border-security/2014/08/11/id/588072/?ns_mail_uid=38327707&ns_mail_job=1581113_08112014&promo_code=b5rj8exw

fish

Posted by: Brad Croul | 11 August 2014 at 05:16 PM

There was a specific post to which you were referring Brad?

La

You nativist, xenophobic, nationalists should be ashamed of your thoughts. President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. Al Gore did, too. Harry Reid should be our next President with Ms. Napolitano as his Vice President. You hicks in your small hillbilly pond should show some respect for their love of our democratic system. For a hundred years democrats have done nothing but improve our country. Repent I say unto you; REPENT!

Account Deleted

fish at 8:25 -
"I'm supposed to keep footing the bill because we never learned to make our enemies fight each other like the Romans did."
I never said anything of the kind. You just made that up. Your version of the recent history of Iraq was baloney and I called you on it.
Just like you, I'm furious that our country keeps footing the bill for these wars. I think we should tell all the oil wealthy nations to pay up or else. We should tell Europe to get their soldiers down there to fight.

Best line from fish - "What the fuck do I care if he gases whole villages?"
Well, I guess no more than I care if some one barges into your house and starts trouble. But maybe you are more important than other human beings.

Joe Koyote

Fish 4:11 -- I think we agree that the middle east is really none of America's concern anymore. The area was far more stable before America moved into Iraq. At the same time, historically speaking, oppressed majorities sometimes rise up against the power structure (South Africa for example) and perhaps recent events are a reflection of the Sunni/Shia disparities that are common in certain countries. I don't think it is in the best interests of the American people as a nation to have its military be the cops, and in many eyes, the bullies of the world. Our treasury has/is being drained by misguided foreign adventures that more often than not, create more enemies than friends. I would, however, support aid and some air/drone strikes to groups like the Kurds to help them fend off the radicals and establish free states and self government. I think the larger question is where and how does ISIS and other "fighters" get the money to purchase arms and supplies and who benefits the most if they are successful. The answer to both questions will be the same.

Todd Juvinall

If we want to stay oput of the Middle East mess, start more fracking.

Larry Wirth

Right on, Todd. Who in the real world is La? Dems have spent most of the last half century attempting to destroy the US, but he/she(likely)/it is your prototypical lo-info voter.
Good Grief!

L

fish

Posted by: La | 11 August 2014 at 07:02 PM

An acceptable first attempt: C+ for quality/A- for the faux crazy indignance.


Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 11 August 2014 at 07:28 PM

I never said that you said, "I'm supposed to keep footing the bill because we never learned to make our enemies fight each other like the Romans did." How on earth did you draw that conclusion?

Best line from fish - "What the fuck do I care if he gases whole villages?"

Well, I guess no more than I care if some one barges into your house and starts trouble. But maybe you are more important than other human beings.

I wouldn't expect you to care if somebody barged into my house and started trouble. Nor would I expect you to shell up trillions of dollars to remedy the situation.

George Rebane

re fish 657am and his ScottO dialogue - I believe we care about each other in proportion to how the other's wellbeing affects our own. So the closer our world lines entwine with another, the more we are concerned if something bad befalls him. Assuming Mr fish lives near me, I am very concerned if someone barged into his house without permission. And I'm much more concerned about that than a foreign dictator gassing his people, because there are a number of insulating factors between me and the dictator, factors that are absent between Mr fish's intruder and me. It's all about my ability to readily picture 'there but for the grace of God go I.'

re La 702pm - I think La has visited here before with equal anonymity. La's exhortation sounds to me like its delivered with tongue firmly in cheek, at least I sincerely hope so.

Churchill's borders of Syria, Iraq, and Jordan will continue to vex us until we wind up with a new Sunnistan, Kurdistan, and Shiiastan. While this will not solve all problems, it should provide the adherents to the Religion of Peace a little peace. A concern would be that Shiiastan would then join with Iran to reinvigorate a greater Persia that will vie with Turkey to become the region's hegemon.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 12 August 2014 at 08:09 AM


I know the sentiment comes across as callous. Believe it or not I am a pretty good neighbor.

Account Deleted

I would see the problem with a vicious dictator murdering his citizens the same way I would see my neighbor beating his dog to death. I do feel badly for the dog, but I'm far more worried about what else this sick person would be up to in the future.
There is no more 'way over there" - bad folks can make bad things happen anywhere in the world. To ignore genocide anywhere in the world invites, ultimately, your own destruction. What we do about it is pretty complex and depends a whole lot on what we can do and who's willing to help. This country went way overboard on trying to be the cop, nursemaid and welfare office for the mideast.
We should never go into another war with any less resolve than we went into WWII with. Starting with Korea, we have let the world know we just aren't in it to win and if the enemy can rope-a-dope us for a few years, we'll get bored and broke and give up. If we are going to defeat Islamist extremist groups we will have to make it known we will cut off their funding and go after them no matter what country they hide in. Since we don't seem to have that resolve, most of the rhetoric from Washington about defeating terrorism is just hot air and our enemies of all stripes know it.

fish

I would see the problem with a vicious dictator murdering his citizens the same way I would see my neighbor beating his dog to death. I do feel badly for the dog, but I'm far more worried about what else this sick person would be up to in the future.

You would worry. Would you in every case intervene?

We should never go into another war with any less resolve than we went into WWII with. Starting with Korea, we have let the world know we just aren't in it to win and if the enemy can rope-a-dope us for a few years, we'll get bored and broke and give up.

Which is precisely what was done in Iraq.

Since we don't seem to have that resolve, most of the rhetoric from Washington about defeating terrorism is just hot air and our enemies of all stripes know it.

I wouldn't overlook the benefit to the political class of having the "perpetual" enemy either.

Russ Steele

Quote of the day:

In many cases, the only effective way to deal with aggression is with a strong and decisive response. Our overly intellectual President has failed to deliver one. He sees himself as a deep thinker who sees issues that lesser minds just miss. He would do a lot better in international affairs if he would stop his philosophical musings and start being the President of the United States and the leader of the free world.

Walt

One thing is now certain. Thanks to the bafoonery of LIBS, from the melt down of the Middle East, to the flood of illegals, plenty of political real-estate is going to be repossessed by the Right. What seats the Right doesn't take, old school Dems ( yes, a few still exist) are giving the high hard one to their fellow Progressives.
The new EX Gov. of Hawaii is finding that out. He was one of those "bait and switch" Lefty's. " I'm an environmentalist! Now watch me approve developments on sensitive lands." The islanders didn't buy his half hearted "investigation" of the birth cert. brouhaha. ( You can learn plenty when you go and ask around, like I did.)
The natives sure don't like liars.

So just who are the LIBS going to blame come Nov.? Who will be the "dissed" voters?
Get the excuse machine fired up now! ( This is going to be good.)

Bill Tozer

Lol La. Sometimes we need a chuckle while discussing serious matters. La is short for LaLa Land? Good one, but I am personally rooting for the Shotgun Joe Biden/Harry Palms Reid ticket with Nancy Pelosi as Minister of Propaganda or Transportation.

Interesting thread on what our country's role should be concerning foreign affairs in the far flung corners of this orb.
I don't see it as one country we are dealing with, nor even just a region, although the Caliphate stretches from the Mediterranean to the Gulf.

Yes, the ISIL or whatever their new name is a bunch of blood thirsty murderers. I thought is was rather brutal when the Taliban gathered all the villagers together to watch a soccer match, only to find the balls being kicked around were the heads of the villagers's friends, family, and leaders who did not toe the line. But the Taliban pale in comparison to this Sunni bunch.

These ragheads are searching out and destroying all infidels wherever they may be. Too many videos on the web with graphic warnings showing the ragheads hunting down Christian babies and burying them alive to even list here. Shrines of all religions destroyed and even the ethnic Assyrians (3% of the Iraqi population) know their own days are numbered and warn of dark clouds of death and extermination of all Christians awaits them when the ragheads arrive. We have not seen such a premeditated genocide of a religious minority since the Hollocaust. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

They have been funded to the tune of over a billion dollars and rule by terror. It puzzled me that group of ragheads numbering only a thousand militant extremists in Toyota pickup trucks could capture a city of 600,000 without a fight. Now I know why. They simply rule by terror, line up all the males and execute them on the spot then rape the woman. Keeps the bulldozers busy digging the mass graves. Surrendering to them is not an realistic option as it does no good. Very reminiscent of the Kamier Rouge with their killing fields. Best to flee for your lives.
Now them ragheads are crying for us to stop the drone strikes as they pursue fleeing ethnic groups who are dying of thirst. This is a regional enemy that has us in their sights. A band of jihadists, Muslim Extremists, Al Jaheda , Hamas, bloodthirsty Sunnis all under the heading of Obama's "moderate" favored group, aka, The Muslim Brotherhood.

The Holy War is upon us and has been for awhile. Like Pancho Villa, they take no prisoners. We have no where to flee to so in this case we are like Israel where surrender is not an option

Walt

But Bill! These guys are the religion of peace! ( they keep emphasizing that)
Our local anti-Semites also buy into that and chastise us for backing Israel.
( just look at the opinion page of the Union)
Hell! Some have said Israel should have shared their "iron dome" with Hamas!
( Just what are the nut jobs thinking?) The killing of Jews should be more equal.
( nope, not making this up)
Kerry go to Israel and demands that the destruction of the tunnels must stop. Really? Just who's side is he on? The stupidity of "O" and Co. is never ending. It wasn't long ago that "O" had the ragheads to the W.H. for dinner. I'm sure more than one were well known and wanted terrorists.( guest list still top secret) Gotta love more of that "talk'n with our enemies, and giving in to terrorist demands. Another first "O" can hang his hat on. ( GITMO psychopaths traded for a deserter. Great trade in the book of LIB)

Walt

A little desperation from our Northern state. " See? A RINO and I agree most of the time! Don't split us up and keep me in office"
( personally I think they both need to go)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/12/alaska-gop-senator-to-dem-counterpart-stop-using-my-name-in-ads/

Bill Tozer

Non intervention is my first reaction, but that is only the first reaction and not a response.

Let's play with numbers, shall we?
In June, Iraq released its official death counts. 1,922 of which 1,393 were civilians, 380 were soldiers and 149 were police officers.

3 million dollars/day. The amount of oil and gas revenues the Islamic State receives from seizing land.

Zero: the number of Christians alive in Mosul.

500,000: the number of Iraqi who would perish (2011 Water and Power report) IF the dam outside Mosul was shut down. The IS has captured the dam.
67 feet: the wall of water that would hit population centers if the dam was blown up.

500: number of ethnic Yantizes killed. 300: number of them taken as slaves.

20,000: the number of Christians and ethic minorities rescued by Kurdish rebels surrounded up on Mt No Food or Water. The number still stranded: 20,000.

Sure dwarfs the Gaza numbers. For fun, number of Palestinians from the Gaza region living in Israel: 1,500,000. Numbers of Jews living in Gaza: 0. All Jewish settlements in Gaza were torn down in 2006 by the Israeli government and the land given to the PLA.

Would it not be something with all the oil we have in the ground that the ragheads attacked us for our oil.

fish

Offered in support of your thesis William....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-12/real-reason-new-us-and-french-military-involvement-iraq

Walt

Bill. You can't trust the numbers of how many killed. Especially of so-called noncombatants. I don't care which Islamic aria is sited. They put guns in the hands of kids to shoot at our people. Think those dead kids are counted as "enemy combatants"? ( Nope, just take the gun and leave the body in the street for anti West reporters to find.)
No one over there wears a uniform.. Instant civilian death to blame on our forces.

Don't give LIBS any ideas. They love giving our stuff away. If they think they could turn over all rights to oil within our boarders to the Mullahs,( in reparations of course) they would. ( They might run out of oil to sell to us)
Just like taking our water from these here hills, and selling it to the big city golf courses, so big LIB donors can play cow pasture pool. Those links are more important than crops.

Walt

I would say "bring it",, but "O" has beat the kid to it, and a fine job at that.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/12/isis-members-threaten-to-attack-america/

So Brad,,, What do ya' think?
Lefys in general... Where should the shooting be? In their streets, or ours?
Don't ever say.. " It can't and won't happen here". We were one trigger pull away from civil war thanks to an over zealous EPA and BLM. ( and just who controls them?)

Account Deleted

"You would worry. Would you in every case intervene?"
Any one with an IQ over 50 would. In every case I would do something.
I wouldn't go over to his place and offer to pay to upgrade his house, that's for sure. That's what we seem to do with all of America's enemies. "Hey - can we pour a few hundred billion into your military and infrastructure so you can hand it over to folks that want to kill us?"

Barry Pruett

So the Obama administration has stated in the past that the government is too big for one person to manage. Well if my business was too big to manage, you bet your ass that I would not be on vacation and golfing my brains out. I would be at my desk and working to effectively manage my duties and responsibilties. 2016 cannot come soon enough.

Bill Tozer

Thinking about La's delightful post. Maybe the Pelosi/Biden in 2016 would be one hot ticket

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tkmHQW-KITc/TEseeWAPAjI/AAAAAAAAD44/WYgbAE4UrVc/s1600/Nancy_Pelosi_by_tattooedaquaman.jpg

Don't think she will endear herself to the military after saying ALL veterans are mentally ill, but she sure as heck couldn't do worse than our current community organizer going on the Apologizer-in-Chief tour which started the ball rolling. Nature abhors a vacuum.

fish

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 12 August 2014 at 06:11 PM

Well let me know how that works out for you.

fish

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 12 August 2014 at 10:46 PM

William....seeing that picture of Photoshopped Nancys fake cans almost makes me hate her less.....almost.

fish

Hey Scott....looks like I might be on the wrong side of the issue....il papa offers his blessing.

http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/1cd4dc20-b132-4524-a9b2-85d9990bf96e

Russ Steele

TWEET OF THE WEEK: John Kerry said that if you didn’t study or were stupid, you would get stuck in Iraq. Today, John Kerry is stuck in Iraq.

Brad Croul

Fish, seems it is a religious war, after all.
Would Papa say the same thing if it was a Christian militia on the prowl?

Walt

The last "Christian militia" I recall were back in the days of the crusades.
Does the Swiss Guard count?
I still haven't found any calls from the Christian side " convert or DIE".
A little Christian bashing there Brad?

Todd Juvinall

"Christian militia"? I think Clinton would be the last President on that one. Seems the Serbs versus the Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovinia might be an example. And Clinton bombed the crap out of those "Christians"!

fish

Posted by: Brad Croul | 13 August 2014 at 07:49 AM

One would hope if it were a Christian militia on the prowl he could talk them out of any nasty business they were involved with. At the very least one would hope that he would be consistent in his condemnation.

Brad Croul

Walt, here is a random reference to recent Christian militias.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/central-african-republic-christian-militias-revenge

Walt

I stand corrected. At least one group of Christians finally had enough and started fighting back. Read the full story Brad? Mussys getting a taste of their own Jihad, and now cry foul? Goons hate it when their victims fight back.
Even Israel is catching flack for defending itself. Maybe they should allow more of their people to be killed just to make it fair..( LIB logic)

Brad Croul

Walt, whatever. Killing children sucks, I don't care whose side you are on.

Walt

You can do better than that Brad. Your taking "O"'s way out.
Miss the video I posted of the "children" of ISIS ?
Hamas loves that civilian body count. " stay above ground and in your homes! Be martyrs to our cause."
The Mussys put children on the front lines, yet Christians are painted as the "bad guys" because they are sick and tired of waking up dead just because of their beliefs.
BTW,, How bout those Christians ( and children) trapped on a mountain top in Iraq, dying of starvation and no water? Maybe they should just walk down the hill and be shot on site by the other children of ISIS. They need more Christian heads to use as soccer balls.

Ya.... " Whatever ".

fish

Not just an inept foreign policy…..President Empty Suit seems to be having difficulty domestically as well.

In a statement on Tuesday, Barack Obama described Brown's death as "heartbreaking". Noting the FBI investigation, the president appealed for calm. "I know the events of the past few days have prompted strong passions, but as details unfold, I urge everyone in Ferguson, Missouri, and across the country to remember this young man through reflection and understanding. We should comfort each other and talk with one another in a way that heals, not in a way that wounds."

The official response to Brown's death has been rejected as insultingly inadequate by many African American residents of Ferguson, a city of about 21,000 people where 67% of the population is black, yet 94% of the police force – and prominent figures in local government, such as the mayor – are white.

Inner city blacks simply don't know how important the tee shot on the 4th hole at the Vineyard Golf Club in Marthas Vineyard is to the president.

Wealthy whites found out what it was like to be frisked for no reason though!

http://pagesix.com/2014/08/12/golfers-frisked-as-obama-unexpectedly-arrives-at-marthas-vineyard-club/

fish

OT - jeffy making the story about himself yet again.

If it wasn’t for my blog, these guys wouldn’t have anything to write about.

Interesting thought jeffy…but as usual….wrong. We chat about the issues routinely….when a comedic palate cleanser is required that's when we refer to you or your blog.

Props jeffy…you're the 7-11 of comedy relief…..always open!

fish

Hey George....how about a new sandbox? We seem to be approaching stall speed here.

George Rebane

fish 1133am - astute observation, and your slightest whim is also my wish, or something like that ;-)

fish

[13aug14 update] Schadenfreude!

Schadenfreude indeed!

Ironically I feel safest when Barry is on the links.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 13 August 2014 at 11:37 AM


Thank you sir!

Walt

If you happen to watch " Storage wars", Jeffy is akin to "Dave Hester".
There is always "one in every crowd".
Ya' gotta love Jeffy's 'self importance".

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