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13 August 2014

Comments

Walt

Speaking of evil, Required reading for Brad.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/12/isis-shocking-barbarity-prompts-calls-for-world-to-act/

"Australia was recently sickened when one if its own became an ISIS jihadist, traveled to Syria and then posted a photo on Twitter of his son holding a severed head with the inscription: "That's my boy!" "

Gregory

Yes on 1.

You start to lose me on 2. Even pulling the wings off flies, generally not thought of as sentient beings, for the fun of it is evil. Evil in a very small way, but one doesn't start at the top.

A guy I thought I knew committed suicide, he was a respected teacher and a performer... Bright, educated, old enough to know better. Perhaps on the eccentric side of normal, but I think most everyone who knew him would consider him "normal". A mutual friend who discovered his body also discovered remains of small animals he had tortured and killed, an evil act despite being animals that are thought not to be sentient by some. While I would have preferred he get professional help to control his daemons, I can only be thankful he killed himself rather than graduate to torturing and killing people, assuming he had not already.

Was he evil? I think that is debatable, though he was certainly capable of evil actions.

fish

On the topic of evil….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724271/When-people-dying-come-vacation-French-foreign-minister-slams-Obama-golfing-Iraq-burns.html

Does this qualify? Not the upbraiding by the French Foreign Minister….but the fact that president Hope-n-Change seemed unaware of his responsibilities as a "statesman".

Al

Dear Curious George,

You used the word "evil" in one of your essays last week.
This pique led me to sequentially Binging "evil, sin, wickedness,
heaven, hell, moral, mores, devil and satan".
Upon reflection of these readings and reviews of experience and history,
I currently think that 'evil' is

George Rebane

fish 327pm - See #5.

Al 533pm - "evil is" is a tautology. But what is it, and what is it not?

Bonnie McGuire

Human beings are powerful creatures capable of being very creative or destructive. Some suffer from the misguided idealism their wisdom is superior, and that those who disagree with them deserve to die. Earths history is pretty bloody. The golden rule that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us teaches self restraint for good....and a better world.

La

Guns are evil!

George Rebane

La 921pm - Welcome back. Here is a test of your understanding of evil, tell us how you conclude that guns are evil. If this conclusion is just an unsupported emotion, then you need say nothing more.

Russ Steele

La,

Are knives evil? Ball bats? golf clubs? Cars? All have been used to kill people. Why is a gun more evil that a knife, a bat, a club, a car?

Think!

La

Guns are more than Cain's rock.

Larry Wirth

La, a rock lacks the capacity for evil, that is a property of the wielder of said rock. Likewise for guns, or do you claim to have a better analysis? Let's hear it. L

La

orge - The unworthy Europeans perverted the Chinese powder gala to tools of oppression, which is typical, especially for the Germans.

fish

Yeah "orge" La is right....

I kid!


La for the love of all things holy at least try to bring more to the table than the vague lefty ennui powered random word generator effort you've shown in this thread.

Walt

Guns evil? Now there is a stretch. Not one of mine has hurt anyone. Even the "scary looking" ones.
If my history of the gun serves correctly, China made the first guns.( hand cannons if you will)Not the Europeans. They just made them better.

There is another "evil" that is fairly easy to overcome. Stupidity.
@ La... This isn't twitter. Can you make it past one or two sentences?

Joe Koyote

Evil isn't necessarily about the use of weapons and killing. Slavery is obviously evil, the keeping of an individual without their consent. Would, for example, knowingly polluting or poisoning water or food by a manufacturing process that causes some of those exposed to the toxicity to become ill be considered evil or good business because it's cheaper? Is invading a country until false pretenses evil? Is torture evil when it's "for a good reason"? Are governments evil, or is it the people in government who are evil? Is it evil to defraud. Is it evil to cheat? Are there varying degrees of evil, some acceptable and some not? Is posing your seven year old son with a severed head evil? Who gets to define evil? Because one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, which one is evil? Evil is in the eye of the beholder.

George Rebane

JoeK 919am - Did you read my post? Did you understand it?

Paul Emery

George

Would you consider execs from the Tobacco industry evil when they knowingly were making a profit of of selling a substance that was killing people?

George Rebane

PaulE 930am - If you rephrase your question to read "... when they were making a profit of selling a substance THAT THEY KNEW was killing people?", then definitely they were agents of evil that I can ascribe as a witness (see #4 above). It is more complex from the point of the targets/victims of evil. Not all of them would agree that they were victims and suffered unjust pain (see #3).

Good question Paul.

Todd Juvinall

I would suggest the government is evil regarding tobacco as they know it kills (they require a statement saying so on every pack) and yet have not outlawed it. The government gets billions in taxes a year as they yse the money for children's health programs. So should those who vote for these things be arrested and tried as murderers?

Ironically the press release that tobacco plants contain a cure for ebola has been released. Kind of a conundrum for the "evil" tobacco executives I guess.

George Rebane

ToddJ 1006am - given the explicit warning labels and the decades of anti-tobacco ads/literature/studies/..., who in the tobacco consumer community are the targets/victims perceiving that they have unjustly suffered pain?

Todd Juvinall

George I guess there is enough hypocrisy on the issue to go around. In a little twist of irony, marijuana smoking is used by people to treat the lung cancer pain from tobacco smoking. Amazing! Of course we must really hole the American Indians to task for this killer passtime. LOL!

Gregory

Paul, is it evil to manufacture and sell alcohol knowing some will die from it? If so, assuming the people consuming the alcohol do so with knowledge of the risk to them or their unborn children (if pregnant), is the evil in the making or the rate of consumption?

Paul, do you think smoking pot is risk free? If not, is it evil to produce it for sale?

Joe Koyote

George 9:27 -- yes and yes.. you are speaking in generalities and I am asking for opinions on specific instances as judged by your criteria.

Walt

What is truly evil, is knowingly driving a wedge between us citizens. The Left is more than guilty of that. Look what they have done to the "race" issue. Ever since "O" and Co. took over, the Left has seen fit to drive white VS black even farther apart. Pitting the "haves" VS "have not's" ( class warfare) Inventing "fairness". Sorry pal, NOTHING is "fair".. Taking from one, to give to another? Who thinks that's such a great idea?
The fake "war on women". More division for political gain. Then of course, making the masses suffer over needed water so it can flow out to sea, all for an inedible refugee from a fish bowl. Choosing a critter over your fellow human is truly evil, no matter the "good intentions" ( people go to Hell for good intentions)

Now Lefty's,, on the other hand,,,, Feel Conservatives are the EEEVVILLLLL ones...! How dare we believe one should take personal responsibility for anything one does. Pay one's own way. Blasphemy! Keeping what one earns.. " How dare you."
I can't even put in print how the Left feels about self defense and preservation. They have spent millions trying to curb that right.

George Rebane

JoeK 229pm - FYI, I did intend to give an operational definition of evil against which specific scenarios could evaluated as to their 'content of evil' and from which perspective such evil was apparent. I know that people of a certain persuasion - e.g. progressives - are not comfortable with such synoptic approaches and yet feel very comfortable cherry picking certain topical scenarios as strawmen, and then making very general, far reaching, and encroaching public policies from those.

I assume that you cannot apply my definition and do the analysis on the long laundry list of scenarios in your 919am. Since such a list can be countless, please pick one that you would like me to work up for you. Perhaps that would teach you to fish, rather than have me (and others) feed you such fish one by one.

Keen Observer

Walt, that was a solid point to discuss the "wedge" being driven amongst citizens. In times past, politicians of all stripes and the general public sought to unite Americans of many backgrounds, knowing that unison would breed the highest productivity amongst citizens. It is because of this vision that America was able to become a world superpower in less than 150 years, rivaling the influence (both socially and militarily) and economic power of other European nations whom had a head start of greater than a 1000 years.

Now, politicians seek to divide us by race, socioeconomic class, and other metrics, because it is certainly easier to win the votes of a smaller number of larger subgroups when you encourage "groupthink" amongst these different classes. There shouldn't be a difference amongst people, and I firmly believe that the majority of American CITIZENS still long for economic and social prosperity. The division amongst citizens only grows larger as we discourage a uniform moral code, and continue to add gray areas to what used to be black and white issues.

In regards to the militarization of police, here is an excellent article that is properly sourced:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/14/militarization-u-s-police-dragged-light-horrors-ferguson/

Although I personally don't own higher level firepower (AR style weaponry), it is because of instances like the Ferguson incident that make it difficult to argue against even the most extreme pro-2nd amendment viewpoints. Today it is "only" Ferguson, but in the wrong hands, our police force is already armed to lethally quell American citizens, regardless if the citizens are in the right or wrong. The older I get, the more I feel that Orwell had it right. The pieces of the puzzle are already made for a full scale dictatorship to occur right here in America, it's only a matter of time until the right person comes along to create the dictatorship, promising hope and change for the better of all citizens (sound familiar?).

There are those that would claim this as being in the realm of "tin-foil" hat talk, just like there were those that claimed some Jews were conspiracy theorists prior to Hitler making his move to cleanse his country. In the end, the true motive will always come out, and one man's "hope and change" is another man's dictatorship.

Walt

Keen Observer,,... I acquired my " firepower", because some Yahoo with a title did his best to take my right away just to own one. It made a nice addition
to my "collection". as to the militarization of the cop force, your right.
Seems that county got plenty from the Pentagon not long ago. Armored trucks to fully automatic weapons. ( the things us surfs should never possess in "their" opinion.) Yet the cops are more inclined to pull the trigger.
Yes, we are already out gunned by the "law man". But when and if the excrement hits the fan some of us will at least have the ability to take a few tyrants, or their minions with us. One person that's a "good shot" can pin down dozens.
A force multiplier if you will.

Our current admin. has been Hell bent on tearing apart this nation, and has done a bang up job of it. Why some ask? What did "O" say he was going to do? " Fundamentally transform America".
And the ONLY way to accomplish that, is to destroy and tear down, what is already there. Well some of us liked it just the way it was, and are willing to "defy" that "fundamental transformation".
That reminds me. I'm overdue at the range.

Bonnie McGuire

Received a book gift in the mail today from a friend who claims most people don't read anymore. Prior to the introduction it quotes John 3:20-21. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to light, lest his deeds be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deed may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

The book is "American Betrayal, The Secret Assault on Our Nation's Character" by Diana West. She shakes the historical record so we can understand the past, our present, and how we became a nation unable to know truth from lies.

George Rebane

BonnieM 402pm - sounds like an interesting book. I invite you to write a book report on it when you've read it. I'm sure other RR readers would enjoy reading your report.

Bill Tozer

Some would call hard street drugs evil, and alcohol evil to an alcoholic. Yet there is no one drop of compassion in a bottle and not one gram of understanding in a narcotic, neither is there to be found a drop or grain of hatred. A rock used for murder is not evil. It feels no hatred or love, no malice, no sympathy. Same with a hunk of steel fashioned into a firearm.

Evil abounds. Evil desires to hurt, nay, destroy, cause pain, anguish, disheartenment, and divide. Evil is very patience and seeks only make one miserable. Evil comes in many faces and hates the light as Miss Bonnie pointed out, yet only has one father, the father of lies. Evil desires to set on the throne and control everyone. Evil is the great deceiver.

Patty Haley

Evil is militant ignorance

Bill Tozer

Evil is always personified as well it should be. Poison oak is not evil, neither is ignorance, mistakes, or the absence of malice.
All humans have or will do evil things, but few humans are truly evil. Former Secretary of State Madalien Albright (sp?) said in a speech at her daughter's college that pro-life folks were evil doers. She said it over 6 times as I heard the address myself. I listened dumbfounded as recalled a passage somewhere about evil times ahead and good would be called evil and evil would be called good. We are in those times.
But evil is not a place or object. It is expressed by and through human beings who have a propensity to do evil deeds.

Dr. Rebane referenced the prayer used by many non Christian groups in a variety of settings. Protect us from evil. The proper translation of that phrase has Evil personified. Thus to quote it in its literal meaning of the word would be "protect us from the Evil One"

This is not some moral equivalency thing. This is a personified absolute.

Bill Tozer

Or deliver us from the Evil One which I like better. I needed deliverance from evil and deliverance from the Evil One more than one could imagine.

fish

Evil is militant ignorance

Posted by: Patty Haley | 16 August 2014 at 09:45 PM

C'mon Patty don't hit and run.......elaborate on this a bit.

Bill Tozer

Oh Fish, Miss Patty was just looking in the mirror and her thoughts just popped out. Simply externalizing her internalies. It be the new psychobabble fad.
Elaboration not necessary as silence is golden and duct tape is silver. Sometimes it is better to take the cotton out of one's ears and put it in one's mouth. That is definitely not evil.

fish

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 17 August 2014 at 08:20 AM

Is Ms. Haley a real person or is she one of jeffys "imaginary friends"?

I tell you I need a program....or maybe a phone book to tell the players these days.

Patty Haley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FikZwgj89HI

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