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11 September 2014


Paul Emery


Before we try something different we have to have some kind of consensus about what the current law is then we can talk about how we things should change. Without that common ground of understanding how can we move forward? I think I offered a pretty clear picture of the current law but would welcome a factual challenge because I don't pretend to be an expert.

George Rebane

MichaelK 734pm - Many thanks Michael; they are corrected.

George Rebane

PaulE 1103pm - Actually, we don't have to know anything about current ordinances to develop a consensus on the criteria for evaluating/generating a new ordinance. In short, we don't have to start from "common ground" in such an exercise.

However, if you wish to start understanding 2349, then go to Jo Ann Rebane's piece with the comparative spreadsheet. In that post you will also find links to the full texts of 2349 and Measure S.


Watch out for the new variety of MJ to hit the market soon. " Dog Bar Red".
The wild red and green will be hard to miss. That fire retardant doesn't wash off.
That should give you a real blast.

Richard Wynn

I find Mr. Donald J Bessee's comments a bit "interesting"...... LOL!!!

Especially when you consider the following facts (there is court documentation to support the statements below.....).

1. Mr Donald J Bessee has been convicted and spent time in jail and was on probation for 1 year for leaving 30 - @ 30 minute long inappropriate (purportedly the been pornographic in nature) messages on someones phone.

2. Mr. Donald J Bessee was discharged from the Military (DD214) on a mental discharge from the Navy.

3. Mr. Donald J Bessee claims to have been a International Banker, when in fact statements from family members show that he worked at Household Finance cashing checks for 2 weeks (and he was fired).

4. Mr. Donald J Bessee moved into the home of a woman who was on mental discharge from PG&E, put himself on title of her Alta Sierra home (that she owned free and clear) and then proceeded to do a cash-out refinance to pay his back State and Federal income taxes in the purported amount of $195,000. This woman still owes @$200,000 in back child support, which went to pay Mr Donald J Bessee's taxes leins.

5. Mr. Donald J Bessee was censured by the Nevada County Court for fabrication photographic evidence, and purportedly held in contempt by Nevada County Superior Court.

6. Mr. Donald J Bessee was involved with legal action that occurred when he purportedly put a running hose into the kitchen window of his Alta Sierra next door neighbor. This was because the woman would not turn off her fountain at night.

7. Mr. Donald j Bessee has had numerous complaints as he has video cameras placed at the Elementary School bus stop across from his residence.

8. Mr. Donald J Bessee has had neighbor complaining as they purported stated that he stops and pucks up "roadkill," or he shoots small animals from the neighboring properties and then puts these into mailboxes around the neighborhood.

9. Mr. Donald J Bessee has had numerous restraining orders put on him be businesses in the Alta Sierra area.

10. Mr. Donald J Bessee purportedly had more than 8 eviction notices (in 10 years) before he was able to secure his current living space.

11. Mr. Donald J Bessee has fabricated numerous documents regarding the killing of his wife's pet cat, blaming it on her ex-husband.

The list goes on and on and on.....

George Rebane

RichardW 1138pm - And how does this relate to Measure S?

Richard Wynn

It talks about the leadership of this ordinance, and people that supported it and FABRICATED the necessary information to make this a issue for the BOS.....

Richard Wynn

I am talking about the current MMJ ordinance 2349, and it's sad that Mr. Bessee is too blind to see the FACT that Measure S will make 97% of Alta Sierra, 98% of LWW, and 98% of LOP ineligible to grow outside, but it does allow for sufficient space to provide patients with the space the require.

Richard Wynn

required to grow inside

Michael Anderson

Nice little blog ya got here, George. Will you let Richard Wynn's charges against Don Bessee reside on your blog unchallenged? Oh right, First Amendment and all that. I guess this is how they do things in Estonia.

Bill Tozer

Meanwhile, the real news about dangerous drugs is coming out of Virginia:

"Fifth-grade girl fights ChapStick ban before Virginia county school board" the headline reads. ChapStick banned cause some people might be allergic to it. The 11 year old girl sent each board member a nice letter with a tube of ChapStick included. That is how you change peoples' minds, hint, hint.
The spokesman for ChapStick said folks have been using ChapStick safely for over 100 years. The School Board has yet to render a decision.

Laura Rose McLeod

Finally the truth is revealed! How can we believe someone like Don Bessee and his rants! Thank you Richard Wynn for putting this information out there. The Sheriff and his Posse need to clean up in their own backyard!!

Bill Tozer

Mr. Walt. Just change the name from Dog Bar Red to Panama Red and we have ourselves a winner. Like changing the name of cottonwood to seasoned firewood. Let the buyer beware.

Todd Juvinall

I think Don Bessee is being attacked by the POTTERS becasue he is actually not a smoker/toker and remembers the real information correctly. When someone is attacked as some of these posters here are doing, it always indicates to me that the person being attacked is right.


He who tries to pry open the door to someone else's skeleton closet, has a much bigger one of their own.
As the good book says,, " He who is without sin, cast the first stone."

Be carful RW,, someone may publish your dirty laundry.

Just how did you obtain private military records? ( DD214) That's far from public info.

Todd Juvinall

Googling Richard Wynn, this is one that came up. Looking at his attack and list regarding Don Bessee, I would say it has to be a person who did depositions? Perhaps for a ex?



The " S.F." attitude is shining through. " I want to "do my thing ( grow dope) and screw the guy next door. Tough sh** if he doesn't like the smell.( or the riffraff that goes with dopers)

George Rebane

re MichaelA 111am - Just discovered another one of Mr Anderson's signature comments in the spam folder. Enjoy.

Bill Tozer

Such evil hate speech this fine morning. And all this time I thought marihuana made people mellow. Making it easy to tell who is smoking their non-addictive herb on a daily basis for the last 10 years, who hasn't had their non addictive daily medicine today, who is in fear that their well will run dry, and who needs a big fat MX missile hooter.

Walt, got an idea for you to kick around. Your daddy might remember when Ponderosa pine had no commerical value. Then they changed the name of our yellow pine to Monterrey Pine and it began to sell. Nobody wants yellow pine, but now they want Monterrey/Ponderosa pine.
Knew a guy who bought some land with an old mine on it in Placer County. His idea was to crush up the tailings pile with a rock crusher and sell gravel. The county stepped in and forbad him cause there were common lizards running around on the tailings and it was a declared a animal habitat. The guy argued in vain that the lizards were there solely because man created this unnatural animal habitat.
So, if you start digging for gold and the county approaches with their panties all tied in a knot, just tell them you are creating an animal habitat. Who could ever be opposed to that? Plus it will make you a good guy. Remember to wear khaki pants, a floppy gardeners hat, add more grey to your beard and you will be in like flint with the green crowd. Heck you can call it a green job.
Oh, better tie this into Measure A-Z. Just change the name of marihuana to medicine and you be part of the in crowd. Start singing one toke over the line and you be grooving down happy funny farm road. Just an idea.


Posted by: George Rebane | 14 September 2014 at 08:57 AM

I hope it's one of his proletarian hangover specials....those are fabulous!


Speaking of LWW,, This pretty much sums up the effects for those who have never partaked. ( Not quite,,, but it's close)....Enjoy...



Ah...not as thunderous as I've come to expect from Michael!

Still...he has flashed the Bat....err...Great Moderator Signal!


Let's watch him "spring" into action!


Comic book guy reminds me of someone... Just who could that be??
The resemblance is striking....


OT again but since government revenues have figured into this discussion not wholly inappropriate!

This is why we can never ever afford to cut spending.....high quality science.....first the study of obese lesbians.....now drunken monkeys!


RL Crabb

Walt 9:59AM - Comic Book Guy was modeled after a real person, a now-deceased guy named Rory Root who was a regular at the San Diego Con for years.


Vary TRUE RL.. Just like all the Simpson characters. ( Have ALWAYS enjoyed the show.)
Had one boob tube tuned into the " Every Simpsons ever" to pick up the ones I may have missed.
Heck. There is some computer program to " Simpson" your own picture. ( haven't done it yet.)


Posted by: RL Crabb | 14 September 2014 at 10:20 AM

I love stuff like that!

I always figured CBG was a composite of every guy running a comic book store that Simpsons writers had bumped into over the years!

No idea it was a single inspirational figure!

Bill Tozer

Love the Simpsons. Bart, Marge, Homer, Jessica, and OJ. Especially liked the cover of Cracked Magazine's pic of OJ with an elongated forehead donning Marge 's blue hair. Caption below said "OJ Simpson". Short and sweet.
Fish, nothing wrong with obese lesbians....unless you are a lesbian on the rebound.

Don Nelson

I am a conservative in the old-school sense where liberty is paramount. I am not a board-room style corporate Republican seeking to gut the middle class by putting profit ahead of everything.
There was a time when Republican’s had class. A minority still do. But, with the advent of the “Drug War” a new breed of “Conservative” has emerged.

This new breed likes to arrange it so that the security apparatus of the state (and the county) is permitted to intervene in the “culture war” by invading personal freedom.

What I can’t understand is how my party has embraced the security apparatus to prosecute a culture war under the guise of a “drug war.” Other states have done so at one time or another leading (in the extreme) to Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

The Tea Party is supposed to be hip to this slippery slope and chime in to prevent just this sort of abuse by the State (see Sherriff Mack and Tom Mclintock).

The biggest question I have is why the local Tea Party leadership has been mute and not even allowed “Yes on S” to make a case in front of their supposedly open-minded membership?

To me, it appears that Tea Party leadership in this county is merely a shill for the Republican social conservatives. They talk-the-talk of being against the nanny state…but when it comes time to actually be relevant in a pressing local issue…the Tea Party leadership muzzles an open debate in front of their membership.

Fortunately, it is only the local Tea Party that is behaving this way for purely local political reasons.

Message to the Tea Party: The Bill of Rights is not a Chinese take out menu. You cannot choose one from this list and one from that list. The Bill of Rights is absolute.

Again, I am very disappointed with the what is left of the local Tea Party but I do see why their membership is slowly drifting away.


Don Nelson


Fish, nothing wrong with obese lesbians....unless you are a lesbian on the rebound.

Indeed...and I've known a couple....all in aviation for some strange reason? Still don't know why we are studying them or the drinking habits of monkeys.

Posted by: Don Nelson | 14 September 2014 at 10:42 AM

Keep it up Don.......!

Paul Emery


The silence of the Tea Party is indeed intriguing in this matter since the current Ordinance allows the police to enter and search your property without even a verifiable complaint. Being a "code" inspection they do not need any evidence a crime is being committed only the possibility of a code violation from a complaint that doesn't even have to be verified.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Fish. Perhaps to save money and advance research in a more responsible manner, they should combine the two high priority projects and study drunk obese lesbian monkeys or monkeys drinking drunken obese lesbians or obese lesbians drinking monkeys. These projects is what used to be called white collar welfare, or also known as "to the victor goes the spoils".
OT will make the little woman happy. Keep up the good work.

To stay on topic, we need to study drunken monkeys smoking pot with obese lesbians. Lez be friends.....until one of them sobers up. Which one will be first to sober up and cry aloud "I will never drink tequila again."


Nice stretch Don, The TP is for LIMITED gov. Not full blown " I will do what I feel like and if you don't like it tough sh**".
Yes, I believe in "live and let live" but few abide by that.
You want to do drugs? well have at it, just as long as it doesn't affect me. Don't make me pay for your actions. Don't show up at the ER and have the taxpayers foot the bill for your overdose. Don't take tax money because you can't hold a job because of your drug usage.
Want to grow dope? then keep the smell on your side of the fence.

Your "right" shouldn't be my nuisance. I have "rights" too.


Posted by: Bill Tozer | 14 September 2014 at 11:16 AM

A little ambitious from a controlled experiment standpoint William! Too many variables.


How about smokers of Cig.s Don? we have been chased off the streets and huddle in little "leper colonies" far from those that dislike us. And WE pay taxes on what we smoke. We have been chased out of every bar and restaurant, and even the town streets. Every law written to "benefit others" imposes and curtails someone else's rights.

George Rebane

Re the silence of the NC Tea Party. As a member of that group I agree that the NCTP should have weighed in on the civil liberties aspects of 2349 and S. Their silence does not speak well of either their attentiveness to such local issues or their lack of position on the issue. This should be right up NCTP's alley since it does not involve partisan politics or candidates, but does involve principles and practice of local governance.

I am no longer involved with the leadership of the NCTP, and don't personally know the people so involved. However, I did call a friend who was recently a NCTP leader and urged him to communicate to their current leadership their unfortunate absence from this discussion.


just to show I'm not all bad,, here is a big "bong hit" for the "pro" side.


( OOppsss. just off the scanner. someone is getting a talking too about growing too close to a school. ( 1000 ft.) )

Bill Tozer

Geez Walt, we already had little Chucky B do the Gong Show, now we will have The Bong Show. No gonging people off the stage, no saying "you're fired knucklehead." Why deprive the viewer of all the enjoyment of watching someone make a complete fool of themselves or getting axed on National TV? No villains?, no primidonnas, no meanies, no public pain and humiliation? Why bother. No wonder they sticking it on the web. Heck, the viewers probably won't even notice the internet is down while watching the show. Perhaps Doritos will be the major sponsor.


Damn Bill,, Give them a call and forward those ideas. This keeps getting better and better. " Driving while stoned". ( on a closed course with PLENTY of orange barrels
to keep car replacement down.)
Don't forget the tried and true hippy chow. PB&J sandwiches. ( buy stock in peanut butter)

I await your next words of wit. Keep it up, your on a role. The stoners can't keep as it is.

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 14Sep14 11:29 AM

Yes, how about cigarette smokers?

They publicly practiced their filthy, smelly habit for years allowing the power of their addiction to blind themselves how inconsiderate they were being to others. Now they sometimes complain that they are no longer permitted to force the filthy, stinking byproduct of their practice on others as if they would be polite company while positioning their behinds inches from one's face and farting profusely. They often leave their sometimes still burning packages of poison anywhere they find convenient. Some are openly hypocritical, denying others the ability to legally enjoy their lives as they see fit while claiming that their duplicity is justified by the tax they pay on their drug of choice.

As you say, Walt, a drug is a drug. Why should using the drug to which you are powerfully addicted be legally permitted while others become criminals by using their drug of choice?


As usual the bait was taken. ( another well done "set up" if I do say so myself.)
Thanks for reinforcing MY point about the stench of MJ plants, and the militant mindset of growers. The smokers of a taxed (and heavily)product got the shaft,
yet the pro MJ den want free run, and a penny to "the man".

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 14Sep14 02:13 PM

Not even close.

I am on record here as favoring the repeal of marijuana prohibition and treating its production, distribution, consumption, and taxation in the same ways we currently do with alcohol and tobacco. This would include legal home production for personal use, just as one may legally brew beer in the home. There are laws in place regarding nuisance odors and these would apply to the odor of backyard grows in the same way they do to the odors of home brewing.

If anybody got the shaft concerning smoking tobacco it was the non-smokers who were and sometimes still are subject to the inconsideration of smokers. I understand, however, that the power of your addiction makes it impossible for you to admit that subjecting others to your disgusting habit is extremely rude.

Did you intend to say, "...and not a penny..."?


Don't feel too bad MK,, I've had plenty of experience at burying people with their own dirt.


Take a hike through Nevada City and the open dope smokers there. ( no consideration)
Playgrounds with dopers smoking around kids.

Until it's legal play by the rules. ( not bloody likely)


Bottom line... Funny how the tune changes when it's something YOU don't like...

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 14Sep14 02:54 PM

If this vague threat is your best retort (and it does appear to be both of these) then it is you who has been set up. Please do try again, though, as I would prefer to believe that you can do better.

Walt 14Sep14 03:00 PM

I typically observe far more illicit tobacco use than marijuana use but if the law is being broken then it should be enforced.

I wondered how long it would take to hear a "for the kids" rebuttal. This is often a tack take by those who cannot otherwise support their side of a debate.

Walt 14Sep14 03:03 PM

I believe that my participation in this discussion has been entirely consistent. Do tell, though, which tune it is that you feel I have changed.


Ya.. "for the kids". That's want pushed taxes on tobacco higher and higher, then any other excuse under the sun.

Yes, your tune changed, since you "dislike" cig. smoke but where the smell of weed is the issue,, " no problem". Growing weed stinks up the place 24/7. ( depending on the grow)

As I recall, you neither use nor grow, yet think it's a great idea. Me,, "been there ,,done that" and now smarter to know the difference.

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 14Sep14 03:54 PM

I never said, "No problem," concerning the odor of marijuana grows. I did say that I felt existing law would cover the issue when legalization would allow home growth for personal use.

I am amused by, "Growing weed stinks up the place 24/7. ( depending on the grow)" Which is it, Walt, always or depending?

I have never made any statements here concerning my experience using or cultivating marijuana, nor whether I feel these are great ideas. I have said that I believe that, just as with the prohibition of alcohol, the prohibition of marijuana has generated more problems than it has solved and that the only solution that makes sense is legalization and regulation in the same way alcohol and tobacco are currently legal and regulated.

I think it's wonderful that you have been there and now know the difference. I still find using that to support a demonstrably stupid prohibition to be an example of a liberal/progressive mindset.

When do you suppose you will become smart enough to kick your nicotine addiction?

Don Bessee

Programing Note! 4 P.M. Monday afternoon on Ch 3 DR. OZ will have a show on the dark side of legalization and the insidious marketing of edible pot that is clearly directed to kids. Gummy Bears, infused Soda's, chocolate kisses and so on. Big Pot takes a page from Big Tabaco, get em early and you got em for life. So what if it costs 10 or so IQ points in kids who start early. Disproportionately impacting children of color. Gotta tell ya that Oprah is a tough negotiator! :-)

Richard Wynn

Sorry Don, with the list of monkey business you've been involved with here, all I hear is the sound of flies from the BS you're trying to push!

George Rebane

RichardW 246am - OK Mr Wynn, now that you've thoroughly trashed the messenger, it would be helpful for the rest of us if you moved on to the message - else you relegate yourself for membership in a group I'm sure you want to avoid. What exactly is the BS that DonB is trying to push?

Richard Wynn

The whole issue of Mr. Bessee fabricating the Alta Sierra grow with his "photographic evidence", as well as the hundreds of issues, especially when members of the BOS have the psychological reports (which are very scary), and the court documentation supporting my statements, including reports by the Sheriff's Department that state that this person is qualified for a 5150, yet Nate Beason places this person as "the counties mediator" for the most recent Wedding land use issue.

Section 5150 is a section of the California Welfare and Institutions Code (specifically, the Lanterman–Petris–Short Act or "LPS") which allows a qualified officer or clinician to involuntarily confine a person suspected to have a mental disorder that makes him or her a danger to self, a danger to others, and/or gravely disabled. A qualified officer, which includes any California peace officer, as well as any specifically designated county clinician, can request the confinement after signing a written declaration.

Mr. Rebane knowing the education that you have, would you trust someone with the track record of this person, and would you, if you were in a leadership position in this county, be placing this person in any type of "leadership position" representing any organization you're associated with?

In fact I'm not trashing this person, if anything I'm protecting the people in our county, like you any your wife, and my kids who live near him and have found dead rodents in their mailbox, all presents from the person.

My grand-kids are not allowed to play outside anymore (if he it outside) and my daughter is so "freaked out" by Mr. Bessee, as he has numerous huge spotlights on every night, yet he wants to complain about someone who grows some pot who has light on, yet he has 12 huge spotlights on (the whole night) that you can see from the end of the block.

I find that when you have the court documentation to support your statements, and then people like Todd Juvinall make statements saying that these assertions must be a "rouse" to be interesting.

I find that people like Todd, and Walt truly cannot see the forest through the trees.....

In the next week I will forward you a complete set of these court documents and then I'll let you make up your mind for yourself. I know your address as I met your wife at your home a few years back, so I will send you a copy of these documents at that location.

Todd Juvinall

So since I don't have a clue according to Richard Wynn, perhaps he can tell us what the personal issue he has with Mr. Bessee is? Have you been molested? Robbed? Bludgeoned? I have no idea what your personal attacks have to do with the ordinance that I am not involved wth. So, tell us all so it is clear or Mr. Wynn, you will be viewed by me and the others as just a kook with some ax to grind.

Bill Tozer

Well, Mr Todd, this may be on topic since Mr. Richard discusses nuisance neighbors, although not exactly marihuana cultivating skunk weed kind of nuisance neighbors. Hey, what's wrong with being a wee bit off one's rocker anyways. I be on the crazy side, but it ain't like I am huffing on a doobie or doing something offensive like going to town naked as a jaw bird, which would be a crime against humanity and nature.

Every neighborhood has a road Nazi, but, darn, I just can't steer this on topic of growers rights versus community rights. What we need here is a community organizer to sort this out. Ooooppps strike that idea. Must be crazy to go down that road again. I have no idea where that came from. Crazier than thinking I have contributed anything to this conversation. I slink away now to back under the shrink's couch.


OK RW,, lets have your personal experience with weed. Details pal,, details.
You smoke it? How long? You grow? Inside or out or both? When is family bong night? Want your kids to have their own stash boxes and invite the friends over?

Go ahead and rent your second or third home to a grower. Enjoy the damage.
"S" gives growers the green light not to tell you they will be growing on the property you own..

Let me rent your car for a week. It's no skin off my nose if I take it boony crashing,, Good luck getting ME to pay for the damages. It's your fault you rented it to me in the first place. It's your car,, you fix it.
That's what insurance is for.. Right? Does it cover the guy you rented to?

I have plenty of experience with MJ.. How much do you have?
Spill it.

Don Bessee

oopsie! The only person in the County who has ever tried to sell the concept that the Sheriff and me lied about the abusive pot grow by the AS elementary school and that it never happened and the pictures were photo shopped is Brad Pecimer-Glasse-Richard-Wynn. Of course the real problem is the property still looks like the day the photos were taken with the abandoned whinny and fertilizer tank still there. Just drive by. Hey Brad the last time you told your story wasn't I a Marine on mental leave from the gulf war? While I love our Marines and Swabbies I am Air Force. When I go to my next D.E.A. training I will be sure to share your story with the Sacramento area FBI Special Agent in Charge. Your for profit pot farm has been abated so that should be ok, right?


Yup,, MJ is just fine and harmless...


What's wrong Wynn? No stones to answer my questions?
Come on... Let's hear the greatness from your personal experience's with MJ.

Richard Wynn

I have spoken with Brad, and he has "informed" me about your activities, and gave me the person to contact to get copies of the documents related to your activities, so what about the numerous other issues such as the claiming be be a International Banker? I guess working at a check cashing establishment is such hard work, especially when you've were only able to be employed there for 2 weeks.

Being a true conservative, I don't like the fact that you're on my mean ticket for your inability to do anything other than harass neighbors and cause trouble for my daughter neighborhood.

Especially when it appears that your nothing but a professional BS artist.

The ASPOA and other neighborhood groups want nothing to do with you, and they have asked to not tell people that they are associated with you.

Why is that?

I was able to secure some "interesting" documentation on you Don. so what about the jail charges, and your probation order for the "interesting" 30 minute messages you leave on peoples phones? Why did you spend time in jail for this?

Or the Military (DD214) on a mental discharge, and yet you still don't have to work? I saw you at the grocery store one day, so how does a mental defect give you a handicapped parking permit, please explain this one, as I saw a handicapped van pull up and you (who are physically able to move nicely, with your nice 49ers shirt and shorts going into the store) just looked at the couple who were forced to park their van away from the store and had issues disembarking and moving into the store...

How does that work?

Why you still owe your ex-wife $30K, and your wife still owe's $200K in back child support? I guess your concern for children doesn't apply when you're taking food out of your progenies mouths... It must be nice Don to find a mentally challenged woman who you can talk into getting onto the title of her home and then put yourself on title of her Alta Sierra home (that she owned free and clear) and then proceeded to do a cash-out refinance to pay your back State and Federal income taxes of @$195,000. Especially when she still owes @$200,000 in back child support, and you got to pay your taxes liens.

Why don't you tell us about your photo fabrication? See Don, when you fabricate stuff you need to be smart enough to know which foot is a size 12 and which is not...... That way the next time you'll have a chance of not being censured by the Nevada County Court for fabrication photographic evidence, and not held in contempt by Nevada County Superior Court.

Why don't you tell us about the incident, and having to go to court over putting a running hose into the kitchen window of your Alta Sierra next door neighbor.

It must be sad when you are responsible for the shooting of Blackie (ellen's / your wifes's cat) and then placing of dead animals into my daughters mailbox, as I have my daughters police reports about this too.

What about the numerous restraining orders? Can you explain why businesses in Alta Sierra have taken these out on you, forcing you to stay away from them?

I find it rather sad that your mental illness has been the primary driver in your life, and I must say that the psychological report that I have, shows that this psychologist knew you, and your condition well.

Like I sad Don, the list goes on and on and on.....

Richard Wynn

Walt, sorry that I couldn't jump right to attention and answer your questions, but I have never smoked weed, as I am a 84 year old retired military vet who is trying to get my daughter and grand kids to move back to southern California, I am here until that happens....

See I have more to do with my remaining time here than sit on the computer awaiting to answer your every question....


Love it. You don't have a clue about effects of dope, yet think it's a good idea to legalize. There has been plenty of that on this page. " Oh noooo... I'm not a user, or have used... But it's SAFE!!" It's not hard to pick out the profiteers.

I thought with age came wisdom? Where's the wisdom in setting a mind altering substance off the leash?

Michael R. Kesti

Oh, please, Walt. You're embarrassing yourself.

A pro-legalization stance, in and of itself, is not proof of profiteering. Your implication is at least rude and perhaps libelous.

One need not be an ex-user in order to have a valid opinion concerning the risks and benefits of using any more than a doctor needs to have been had all of the conditions for which he may prescribe treatment.

Have you more windmills at which you wish to tilt?

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 16Sep14 09:57 AM

I seem to have missed the questions at the end of your article.

Wisdom does not necessarily come with age.

As for, "...setting a mind altering substance off the leash," I would point out to you that alcohol and tobacco/nicotine (to which you are addicted) are mind altering substances, too, which is why they are leashed, not by the chain of criminalization but instead with the rope of regulated control. Our government now spends 10's of billions of dollars per year to enforce and prosecute marijuana laws, and to incarcerate marijuana users yet is all but completely ineffective at stopping use. This seems insane to me, and regulating marijuana in the same way we do alcohol and tobacco makes far more sense.

Paul Emery


Since you favor the criminalization of Marijuana possession and distribution what "tools" do you think law enforcement should have to bring the lawbreakers to justice and how much do you think we should spend to accomplish that task?


Watch it MK, I don't drink. And cigs. don't "alter" the mind. MJ slows reaction time. Blurs the vision. Makes one VARY drowsy. Comprehension is severely compromised. ( And makes one dumber than a box of rocks.)
Ya' think the "busted one" would like his defense att. stoned while in court?

Go try it. Think it's good stuff? Let your kids have a go at it.


It's said only 3% of the population use for med. issues.
The rest is recreational. Yes.. Profit is the end goal. Sue me.

George Rebane

MichaelK's 1148am makes the point that finally resolved the issue for me.

Now the quest is to find the right kind of 'leash' for MJ. But the forces arrayed against legalizing recreational use are formidable - it is the one thing on which the cartels and law enforcement are in complete agreement. In the meantime we nebbishes should at least do our best to have a productive conversation about it.

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 16Sep14 08:18 PM

"And cigs. don't "alter" the mind."

Thanks, Walt. You walked right into it.

Nicotine certainly does alter the mind. It doesn't get one high in the ways that alcohol and marijuana do but instead alters your mind in ways that make one crave more nicotine. And if the addict don't get more, it alters the mind in very unpleasant ways. If you don't believe that, try not smoking for next 12 hours or so. Then ask whoever you may be with whether your mood seems other than it might usually.

One of the reasons I find using tobacco to be exceedingly stupid is that it is filthy, makes one stink, ruins one’s wind, is powerfully addictive, and you don’t even catch a buzz! I know some say they find it relaxing but that’s only relief from the irritability the addiction generates!

“MJ slows reaction time. Blurs the vision. Makes one VARY drowsy. Comprehension is severely compromised. ( And makes one dumber than a box of rocks.)”

That’s a very accurate description of the effects of alcohol, too.

“Ya' think the "busted one" would like his defense att. stoned while in court?”

Of course not, but I wouldn't want him drunk either. And if he smokes, I'll pray that he gets frequent opportunities to service his addiction. Other than that, what does this have to do with anything?

“Go try it. Think it's good stuff? Let your kids have a go at it.”

How many times must I say that I favor regulating marijuana as we do alcohol and tobacco? Does it escape your logic this would include prohibiting supply to minors?

Michael R. Kesti

George Rebane 16Sep14 08:42 PM

"Now the quest is to find the right kind of 'leash' for MJ."

I believe that the same leash that we use on alcohol and tobacco would be as well suited.

"But the forces arrayed against legalizing recreational use are formidable - it is the one thing on which the cartels and law enforcement are in complete agreement."

BINGO! And the reason they are in agreement is that they both greatly profit from it. Imagine how many fewer police, correctional officers, lawyers, judges, and prisons we would need if the immense number of people we currently incarcerate only for possession and use had never been criminalized in the first place. The law enforcement community favors continuing prohibition because it would put too many of them out of work!

"In the meantime we nebbishes should at least do our best to have a productive conversation about it."

I suppose that was aimed, in part at least, at me as I know that I am often too willing to engage easy targets.


That's your idea of a "set up"? OH... It is to laugh..

Cig.s no way impair the mind. Addictive yes. There has never been a dispute over that.

Now go get yourself some and toke up, then get back to me. get yourself some first hand experience. I hear it's real easy to get. Need a pipe? They are in every smoke shop on town. Just don't mention the word pot, or MJ.. Those are all for "tobacco". Heck.. Splurge a little. Grab one of those Indian hookahs with four pipes, and invite a couple of the other "never done the stuff" and let the scientific experimentation begin.. Ya' really don't know what you have been missing! Don't forget the chips and dip. Your wife will appreciate the thorough fridg. cleaning. Just think of the great nights sleep you will get. Where you might wake up is another matter. Will you have both eyebrows? ( someone my think it would be a great improvement if they shaved one off.
Think of a bong as a time machine.. It slows it WAYYYyyy down.
One hell of a trip, and never leave the house.

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 16September14 09:38 PM

I agree that nicotine does not impair the mind, except, perhaps, that most would consider an addiction to be an impairment. We had previously been discussion altering the mind, though, and nicotine's addiction come entirely from changes, i.e., alterations, it makes to the brain. Is that not mind altering?

You would do better, Walt, to not make assumptions about that which you have no knowledge. To wit, I have neither admitted nor denied having used marijuana. Your experience is, as I have previously said, not everybody's and I can tell you that I know, for a fact, that many can use marijuana without the ruination that you espouse.

To continue the parallel, alcohol has similarly varying effects. There are those who cannot have one sip without disaster and those who can enjoy its effect with very little risk.

Please get back to me concerning how long you can abstain from smoking. At least give some thought to who is the master and who is the slave when you have to light up the next, and the next, and…

Paul Emery


You never answered my question 7:41 PM

"Since you favor the criminalization of Marijuana possession and distribution what "tools" do you think law enforcement should have to bring the lawbreakers to justice and how much do you think we should spend to accomplish that task? "


I give up... Smoke up. People DO have the right to make their own dunb assed dissentions.

From Denver.. A PSA.

The pro dope gang should hear from one of their own on the effects.
"Dowd wrote about overdosing on edibles in June. Titled Don’t Harsh Our Mellow, Dude, the column details the horrific eight hours of panic she endured after too many bites of a [caramel-chocolate] candy bar laced with weed. ... Dowd implicated the marijuana industry in the piece, condemning it for pushing the newly-legal recreational drug without safety precautions for first-time users."


Well Paul,, lets stop issuing speeding tickets. They just plug up the courts.
People are going to speed anyway. Then there are those pesky licence plate lights that go out, yet the "G: man can sight you for that too.

Let's legalize good old amphetamines. Just think of the things that would get done.( Oh..wait... they tried that already.. stupid me) REPEAL that law! The tweekers will do it anyway. More court time wasted.
Like I said. People have a right to screw up their lives. Now how do we keep them from getting welfare? Why should the taxpayers pay for their personal choice?
Let's change the law so it's illegal to discriminate against drug users. Those evil insurance companies make plenty of profits,,, right? The person who gets injured due to the "user's" actions was just in the wrong place. " Sorry for your tough luck dude,, here's a check. too bad you won't walk again. But tweeker Troy has rights."

Fit the Bill Paul? Yup,, have at it. We can always raise taxes on the rich to make up the difference for the welfare drug users, since most will be unemployable. Tweekers and MJ smokers are the perfect ones to give power tools and spinning blades to use.
Have it your way..

Paul Emery

You never answered my question Walt. Pretty simple Illegal or not

.......what "tools" do you think law enforcement should have to bring the lawbreakers to justice and how much do you think we should spend to accomplish that task? "


What? Me?? answer a question from Paul? Now that's a good one, from one only answers questions,, with questions, or changes the subject when his filibuster isn't paying off.
A taste of your own medicine is what the Dr. ordered.
What's your beef now Paul? Didn't you read the part where I give into legalization? It's all about RIGHTS!! You have the right to make stupid decisions. Now where is "my" right not to pay for it?

Michael R. Kesti

Walt 18Sep14 11:09 AM

"Now where is "my" right not to pay for it?"

I agree that we should not have to pay for others' stupid decisions, but you're already paying, Walt, for the cost of investigating, arresting, prosecuting, and incarcerating those involved. Even if those who do manage to destroy their lives with marijuana (which I know is a lower risk than you claim) become welfare recipients, I believe that the cost would be reduced. And those who can use without destroying their lives would be free to do so without having to deal with criminals and themselves become criminals.

You are further embarrassing yourself with your childish rants.


WOW I didn't know I could waive my helmet in the air and change things.
Now your upset I agree? Damn dude,, their is no pleasing you guys.
You now need to work on all those other pesky laws. Demand an end to drug testing! Force those insurance companies to cover drug using people.
Petition Eric Holder to end your persecution.
Drug user's rights supersede everyone else's. Abolish the "drug free work place" laws.. Where do I sign?

( so who's really embarrassing themselves?) It sure isn't me..

Paul Emery

Speaking of paying for stupid decisions how about the billions being spent treating childhood diabetics and obesity while the big chow multicorps warp children's minds with TV ads promoting unhealthy food.


As I was told Paul,, Take it to the sand box. Your off topic.

Paul Emery

No Walt
It expands ou your concern about paying for the bad decisions of others and your overall concern for the welfare of children. In this case it's children responding to media ads to consume food that is unhealthy for them and parents that don't exercise due diligence is their childrens habits.

Patricia Smith

Don Besse has made it a habit of speaking for individuals and organizations that is not authorized to represent. He sent me the following threatening email which was not only incorrect, he was chastised by the Coalition for a Drug Free Nevada County for speaking out of turn:

Pattie, Today martin webb posted on the Union in a comment regarding Joanne Rebanes editorial that he is a member of the Coalition for A Drug Free Nevada County Steering Committee and further that he signed the Yes on S official ballot argument as such. I have previously told him, Shelley Rodgers and Ariel Lovett have told him clearly that his just a member of the public attending these meetings and he acknowledged his misunderstanding. Further his speaking about 'our coalition' is not his place. Martin must have his dreads too tight if he thinks any Coalition conversations regarding pot policy would ever happen with him in the room. We will be checking to see if his claim to having lied about his status in the ballot statement are true. You need to determine if you filed a willful lie because you are the listed responsible party in the Yes on S papers. There are many who would have standing to formally challenge the statement and demand its removal (if he did this) that is if you do not fix it yourself as the principal responsible party of a FPPC (Fair Political Practices Commission) regulated committee. I will expect your reply in 48 hours and will take no action pending your reply. Don Bessee

Response from the Coalition:


As usual Paul, you can't stick to the subject at hand. " HAY! look over here."
BTW Moochel "O" has that well in hand. "She knows best" ( yet her own kids are exempt from those (un)healthy choices.)


And in other news,


Don Bessee

The Measure S Debate at the ROOD Center is BACK ON with both sides! Tuesday 6pm. On a related note a lawyer for the pro pot group NORMAL filed an emergency motion for a temporary restraining order on the County to stop enforcement of mmj ord. 2349. Judge Dowling denied the TRO motion today.


I'm no lawyer,, but isn't weed still regulated by the state? Last I checked this isn't Colorado or Oregon. Nice waste of time and money. But the lawyer made out good... Uh,, did he get paid in weed?

Don Bessee

Walt 5:19 If she was an out of state shark, I bet in product given the price inflation as you go east, even Colorado. The street price in Colorado has skyrocketed in the black market since legalization. Be careful what you ask for. :-) The State Supreme Court Ruled that 215 clearly gives the job of structuring the location of commercial growing as a land use issue. That's why the disparity between counties could be so damaging to Nevada County if S were to pass. That's why they lost the other law suit against the County that the County Council crushed. The lame duck liberal Judge Dowling who ruled against them today gave the pot profiteers 14k on their lawyer fee motion demanding 150k in the old law suit. We are seeing that money now in the yes on S ads and signs, not to mention its harvest season! Time for the trimagrants to clean out the food banks. What Pattie fails to understand is that there are many parties that have standing to make an FPPC complaint. The Fact is the window to amend the sample ballots was long closed when we found out. For details please refer to my recent Sandbox post on the lefty Jeffey pattie post.

Paul Emery

Don B

You jumped the gun on that, The debate will be the next week as a studio only debate Sept 30, 31, or Oct 1. That was the decision of the Union and KVMR, the hosts of the debate.

Don Bessee

Well Paul, I have an email from Pattie and the NO on S team and they will be at the ROOD CENTER at 6pm on Tuesday. We are not subject to your limits. Sorry you chose poorly when you picked the Nevada City set up and ignored the prior agreement. You have not been part of any conversation with me. I am aware of your pleadings to the Sheriff. We all on the NO on S agreed to the KNCO in studio debate this week before the ASA affirmed their earlier Rood Center commitment today. The Union and you are not the only game in town and we will bring both sides to the public on Tuesday with or without you sir. The ASA email is timed at 1:59 pm today. Did they chicken out again after that? Do I really need to post the emails? I would like to have regional media there who do not host the radio show of the growers that does not take our calls. It would be nice to just have a fact based conversation that the community has access to. Why don't you help with that and stop seeking exclusivity against KNCO?

Paul Emery

So Don who is the moderator and what is the format for your "debate" at the Rood Center?

Brad C.

The more the merrier, I guess. The "Yes on S" site says Nevada Theater, Sept. 23 at 6PM, Mr. Bessee will be at the Rood Center at the same time, and KVMR and the Union will be doing something on the air a few days later.


George Rebane

Again our Bob Crabb says it best with this graphic filched from the 20sep14 Union.



Well this keeps getting better and better. Seems we have our own little MSNBC VS FOX
on just who is going to play referee. Paul? (AKA Candy Crowley) or whoever KNCO throws to the wolves.( Bill O.)

Don states,,"I would like to have regional media there who do not host the radio show of the growers that does not take our calls."
Now how much truth is in that statement? But based on local Lefty track records ( not mentioning any names,,,) those with a contrary opinion just don't get heard.

Paul Emery

Well cartooned Crabb but missing details

The fact is KVMR and the Union arranged to have the Nevada Theatre as a venue for the debate and the no on S folks said no. It is indeed a sad commentary of our times when a treasure such as the Nevada Theatre that has hosted thousands of events in recent years is considered a unfit venue. Never in my recollection has a venue proposed by debate hosts been rejected. It is the prerogative of the hosts of such events to dictate the venue and format.


Ya' get advertisement kickbacks Paul? The same sales pitch every time for the Nevada Theater. ( An eco trophy from the miners they put on the endangered spices list. Tell it like it is... No,,, you didn't build that.)

Paul Emery

Walt I don't have a clue about what you're talking about Please translate


I don't think there is a "translation" into "old Hippie".
Good old English will do. Comprehension not working tonight? ( Or is it that Irish swill you consume?)

Paul Emery

Tell it like it is... No,,, you didn't build that."

Huh? What does that mean?
Perhaps you're a poet or perhaps you don't mean anything but feel compelled to say something


Sorry Paul if that's over your head, and too advanced. Think "historic". The mining cuture did the building, the pot culture staged a coupe.
That help you out any? Might as well paint a pot leaf on the "historic" structure.

But keep up the sales pitch. Seems the place is out of the running. Deal with it.

Bill Tozer

I just don't understand all the hubbaloo about this marihuana cigarette thing. Since the 30's, it has been illegal to possess, cultivate, smoke a marihuana cigarette...until this medicinal marihuana initiative passed in CA. So, since the 1930's, it is still illegal to possess, transport, or cultivate a marihuana cigarette unless you have a licensed doctor's recommendation. Without a prescription in your possession for medical grass, nothing has changed in four score and seven years ago.

I reckon there are some minor disagreements over how much and where an ill person with the doctor's OK can cultivate the marihuana tobacco, which is to expected. Opinions are like anal cavities, everybody has one. If you don't have a butthole, then that would make you crankier and ornerier than a wet hen. No big deal. Nothing much has changed in the grand scheme of things. Not worth throwing haymakers at each other.
However, one felony drug conviction can make most folks nowadays toxic to future employers. That is a bummer, man. Guess if nobody will hire ya cause of yer drug record, then there ain't much else to do but toss some seeds out the back window and become self employed. That has not changed much either.

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