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« A Nation in Denial | Main | Ruminations - 23sep14 »

20 September 2014



The true believers are going to be looking for this guy's head. How dare he turn on them.
But Ca. has taken the IPCC bullshit as gospel and written and passed laws because the info."said so". CARB and the waterboard swore by this crap, and we now pay the price, in more ways than one. We will all take it up the posterior hard and dry when the new carbon tax hits after the 1ST. I will let Mr. Bill finish it from here...

Russ Steele

Read Koonin's article at breakfast table this morning at the Windmill Inn in Roseburg, and was composing a response in my mind as we drove home. You exceed my mental composition by a wide margin. Well Done. More comments after the car is unloaded.


George, no one disputes that the "state of the art" view of climate science should command the day, but with so much uncertainty, as you've described, the average schlub (like me) considers Pascal's Wager. Then you move on to "quality of life" and one man's damage is another man's desire. (Anything that reduces the whiskey brown haze I used to see as I approached L.A. in the morning is OK in my book.) This is the kind of subject that should have unbiased prime time panel discussions on TV and radio where the issues and consequences are laid out in language the public can understand. The general ignorance of the public is not going away. You have to deal with what is and the emotional appeal that doomsday scenarios have on the masses watching Oprah and FoodTV. .....and since they're spending so much time on the tube, go there! What % of the population reads WSJ? (Those that do generally run everything through a "cost to business" filter as the controlling criterion.) I don't like "unnecessary" regulation any more than you do, but how do you define "necessary" when nobody knows EXACTLY the scope of what humans ARE doing or not doing to the climate? In the face of this uncertainty, is the default position to do nothing if it adds one scintilla of cost or "inconvenience"?....(leaving aside waste caused by a necessary but mismanaged program.) I have absolutely no desire to pay a penny more to a governmental agency for some program that isn't "necessary". I wish God would give a TED talk on exactly what's going on so we could end the confusion..

Bill Tozer

The Peoples Climate March is set for today in Manhattan according to the NYT. Many flowering words to be spoken. With 9 months of planning, I hope they turn their attention and actions to our pressing need: One big humongous rain dance.

Russ Steele

At a pre-People Climate March Rally last night Capitalism was in the crosshairs as Socialism was promoted at the opening event.

Socialism was praised and promoted to raucous applause by the hundreds in attendance at the People’s Climate March event on September 20, featuring organizer Bill McKibben, author Naomi Klein, socialist Seattle City Council member Kshama Sawant and socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

The event, held at the Unitarian Church of All Souls, was titled “THE CLIMATE CRISIS: WHICH WAY OUT.” The event was permeated with socialist literature with the Socialist Alternative newspaper prominently on display.

Mark Morano reports from the meeting, after the activists were warn not to talk to him:

When Kshama Sawant, a socialist who won a seat on the Seattle City Council, noted she was the first socialist elected in decades, the church erupted in applause.

“A socialist world that will deliver a high standard of living for all,” Sawant said to applause.

Sawant ripped the current economic system: “The market is God, everything is being sacrificed on the altar of profits,” Sawant declared. “We must bring giant corporations into public ownership. You cannot control what you don’t own,” she added.

Senator Bernie Sanders ripped Fox News Channel: “We all know what Fox TV does not know. Climate change is real,” he said to laughter. Sanders declared the “debate is over.” “This is the planetary crisis of our time.”

“Unless we address global warming this planet will be even more unstable than it is today.” [Sanders also faced a momentary protest from the crowd for his supporting “war.” Activists unfurled a big banner in front of Sanders while he spoke.] founder and march organizer McKibben called global warming the ‘greatest crisis.’ “This is the biggest problem that humans have ever been up against,” he declared.

McKibben warned of an apocalyptic future of human caused global warming. “The science of climate change is dark and hard,” he said and warned of 8 or 9 degree F [temperature rise] before the century is out.”

McKibben also promoted an Occupy Wall Street type climate event for Monday. (See: Climate march will feature ‘a 300-foot-long banner that reads ‘Capitalism = Climate Chaos – Flood Wall Street’) (Also see: Flashback 2013: Bill McKibben is not what he seems to be)

Also featured on the panel with McKibben was author Naomi Klein, author of the new book “This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate”. See: Warmist Naomi Klein: ‘Capitalism is irreconcilable with a livable climate’ – Facing climate change head-on means changing capitalism

& See: Warmist Naomi Klein: ‘Dealing with the climate crisis will require a completely different economic system’

During the panel discussion, Klein was asked: “Even if climate change issue did not exist, you would be calling for same structural changes. Klein responded: ‘Yeah.’

Following the panel, Climate Depot asked Klein if she would support all the same climate “solutions” even if the science was wrong.

“Yes, I would still be for social justice even if there was not climate change. Yes, you caught me Marc,” Klein answered sarcastically as she abruptly ended the interview. [Also see: EU Commissioner: Global Warming Policy Is Right Even If Science Is Wrong ]

Klein told the activists she recommended “weaving this [climate] movement into all of our movements.”

Klein also singled out Climate Depot’s Marc Morano during her panel presentation, noting that “climate deniers and Heartland Institute people like Marc Morano, who is here tonight…”

Klein noted that the “ecological clock is ticking.”
“We are dealing with an existential terror,” she added.

Now you have a view from the other side of the issue. It is not about the climate it is about Socialism. Much more HERE.

Side note: When Mrs Clinton's name was mentioned the crowd erupted in boos and cat calls.


"I don't like "unnecessary" regulation any more than you do, but how do you define "necessary" when nobody knows EXACTLY the scope of what humans ARE doing or not doing to the climate? In the face of this uncertainty, is the default position to do nothing if it adds one scintilla of cost or "inconvenience"?"

Unfortunately, it isn't an issue of "one scintilla of cost"; cause the price of energy to skyrocket and people will die.

Only 52% of the professional members of the American Meteorological Society surveyed last year think one half or more of the 20th century warming is due to mankind, all causes, not just CO2. Meaning at least 48% are "deniers"; had the question, "Are CO2 emissions dangerous to life on Earth?" been asked I've little doubt there would have been a small minority of AMS members agreeing. Why wasn't that question asked? One could easily suspect they didn't want to know.

AGW was politicized out of the gate; by and large, it's the Left that is convinced we're burning ourselves up, despite, by the satellite record, there being no statistically significant warming in 18 years.

The marchers better march hard... the end is near, but not for Gaia. The more time passes, the greater the evidence for natural temperature variations being far larger than the CO2 signal and the climate's theorized amplification of that signal AND ANY OTHER SOURCE OF WARMING.

It isn't just CO2, it's anything. The planet has been oscillating with equatorial ocean temps varying maybe 6C peak to peak, with a period of something like 160 million years... but the positive feedback event (the temperature equivalent to the screech of a badly adjusted public address system) they're scaring you with has NEVER happened over the past 500+ million years.

The *only* candidate for the main driver of ocean temps over geologic time (the average luminance from the Sun has been reasonably constant) are high energy, galactic cosmic rays, the detritus of supernovas in our galaxy. When we are bathed in them, causing more cloud condensation nuclei (CCN) to be formed, the earth gets colder; all of the great Snowball Earth ice age episodes with ice being the dominant feature of the planet are when we are bathed in them... our Sun's orbit around our galactic center brings us in and out of the four spiral arms of our galaxy and our ice ages are when we are in a spiral arm, our hottest periods are when we are smack dab inbetween.

That's geologic time... but since 2006 when Svensmark demonstrated GCR-driven CCN generation in a lab, it's also been replicated in a sophisticated apparatus at CERN, and detected in nature, with the world's cloud moisture content dipping 7% a week after a Forbush event, a solar windstorm caused by a coronal mass ejection, sweeps us clean of GCR for a short time.

And during the Little Ice Age, sunspots (indicators of the solar magnetic field strength and solar wind intensity) disappeared for years... and with less sunspots we get more ionizing GCR and more CCN... more low clouds, less sunlight reaching the ground.

Yes, I know, all the above is barely distinguishable from magic by many, but it's less magic than a tiny warming from CO2 being amplified many, many times over into a catastrophe the world has never experienced in 500+ million years of many temperature short term temperature excursions.



Well it's good that they admit that they expect the same remedies whether or not global warming actually exists!

Does anybody know if the grant whore from Truckee was in attendance with his begging bowl?


Don't forget what came out of the EPA. " It's isn't about keeping people safe and healthy..It's about furthering the agenda." Socialism is part of that agenda.

George Rebane

Fuzz 1024pm – Thank you for the considered comment. Let’s first dispense with the comparison of reducing LA smog with AGW. The constituents, sources, causes, and ‘cures’ for LA smog were well known even back to the 1940s. Its eradication/reduction was a political decision to apply the known remedies. There was no Pascal’s Wager involved.

And no Pascal’s Wager is involved with climate change and AGW because there is no evidence of an extra-ordinary existential climate problem occurring, and there is overwhelming evidence that nature is continuing the course it has taken over its geologic ages. The AGW has been latched on by people who want to remake society in their twisted image – global socialist central government organizing human life best summarized in the objective statements of Agenda21. AGW has been promoted to the great unwashed worldwide by the cynical elites of collectivist ideology in both politics and ‘science’ – the record of the supportive organizations and their ideological leanings are a matter of public record, and continue to be so today (e.g. see also RussS 658am and Gregory 707am comments).

And these central planner autocrats know that time is running out on how much longer they can expect the masses (like the ignoramuses marching in NYC) to stay ignorant in the face of readily available evidence when they turn on the TV or walk out of their houses. But before this is over, you can expect the Great Lying Machines to crank up to levels not experienced since the days of Goebbels and USSR’s Pravda. Here the outcome is not certain, there are no limits to human ignorance, especially when expertly nurtured.


George. You mention Pravda.. A few years ago, that vary publication
called the U.S. insane for allowing Socialism to goose step into our society. Especially after the real blood sweat and tears THEY went through to get out from under that jackboot. ( yet now they have allowed Putin to re-instigate it.) Go figure...

George Rebane

Walt 929am - Russia is a thugocracy cum tyranny. Its policies - domestic and foreign - are strictly opportunistic. Putin has no need to present a consistent and/or coherent story to Russians. Recalling Orwell's '1984' explains the whole thing. With lamestream support Obama is doing his best to emulate such "flexibility" in what his administration does, and his broad constituency is lapping it up (for evidence just look at the writings of our local leftwingers).

Bill Tozer

Rain dance is working. Now, let's dam it, damn it.


Well the Pravda snipe at us was pre-Putin. The saw "O" and the DEMS for what they were way back when.. But did the people here listen?? I do believe that's a no...

Brad C.

It is a waste of time to try to blame human activities, or geologic processes for GW since every process contributes in some way, some more so than others. For all I know, the AGW debate was created as a smoke screen by big business dream teams (think OJ's dream team) to confuse the issues by making the assertion that, if they can invalidate the AGW argument, they can invalidate all the good work that the environmental protection agencies do, hopefully, allowing big fossil fuel producers and consumers to get back to the business of spewing whatever they want into the environment.
The more important argument (to me) is how to get the toxins out of the CO2 generating processes. Since CO2 is present with the more poisonous toxins emitted as a result of fossil fuel combustion processes, if we could lower emissions by making the combustion process more efficient (and make better, more efficient use of the combustion process) we would be helping to do all we can do to keep CO2 emissions and the associated noxious and toxic emissions minimized.
That will benefit those who want to minimize possible AGW and keep our air and water cleaner.

George Rebane

Addendum to my 831am - The Left is trumpeting the 'fact' that 2014 is the hottest year in Earth's recorded history. Readers should understand that there is no such thing as an unambiguous 'Earth temperature', there is no single place we can stick a thermometer and measure it. Earth temperatures come in many flavors and are powered by many motivations; each temperature is the output of an algorithm that takes different sets of input data - different temperature measuring stations, different locations, different altitudes/depths, etc. The data for each is prepared in different ways - scrubbed, interpolated, smoothed, ... - before being put into its algo which then combines the data using different equations and different weights attached to the input data items before spitting out a number ('the Earth's temperature'). Given these 'production pathways' for the variously cited Earth's temperatures, one can easily see that such processes can be tailored to give a plausible explanation for any desired historical temperature profile, including the infamous 'hockey stick'(q.v.) cited by the True Believers. And the innumerate voter has no capacity to question what a politician or TV personality or movie star tells him.

George Rebane

Walt 955am - "Well the Pravda snipe at us was pre-Putin." Not on your life Walt. Pravda is alive and well, and doing its usual job now serving a new master. See for yourself -

BradC 1000am - I'm not sure that you have understood the fundamentals of greenhouse gases and, specifically, the CO2 argument. As the record shows and many have pointed out 1) atmospheric CO2 levels have been much higher than now during periods when flora and fauna flourished even more than now, and 2) there is no correlation between atmospheric CO2 levels and any measures of earth's temperatures. Your apparent blind support of CO2 emission levels seems to depend on some unidentified "toxins" that are co-emitted with CO2. There is no credible evidence for such toxins, especially in amounts claimed to also affect our health and safety. Introducing co-emitted toxins into the AGW debate appears to be a blatant diversion desperately promoted now that CO2 has lost public credibility in its ability to be the sole bearer of bad tidings for the future. Evidence please.

Russ Steele

Paid Volunteers at People's Climate March

Craigs List: Looking for volunteers to pass out flyers at Climate March (Midtown)

Years Of Living Dangerously, an Emmy Award winning television series about climate change, currently seeks a few volunteers to pass out flyers during the People's Climate March on Sunday, Sept 21st.

Time: 11:00am

Payment is $50 per volunteer.

Please send a short email about why you'd like to volunteer with the Years of Living Dangerously team during the Climate March. Confirmation and specific details will be given upon receipt of email.

Anthony Watt's writes: "That movie was such a bomb, they are reduced to “paid volunteers” handing out fliers on street corners at $50 each."

I wonder how many of the other marchers were "paid volunteers"? If you remember many of the Occupy Wall Street protesters were also paid volunteers. The left has a history of using rent a mobs for their protestes. Paid Volunteers at People's Climate March


Always good to see Chuck Schumer "walkin the walk"!


This is what I was referring to.

"Pravda, Russia’s leading news publication, pointedly asserts that while Communism has failed miserably in their country, the recent U.S. presidential election demonstrates that it has scored a victory in America. A November editorial titled “Obama’s Soviet Mistake” observes that while Vladimir Putin’s re-election signified popular determination to keep the New World Order agenda out of Russia, President Obama’s did the opposite."

George Rebane

RussS 1052am - good heads up on the Left's creativity in creating and distributing all kinds of transfer payments. I would not be surprised if they are paying the $50 'volunteers' out of some taxpayer funded grant one of their buried organizations got for 'educational purposes'.

Russ, all of us who have studied climate change know that natural sources of CO2 like volcanoes and massive wildfires put out massive amounts of all kinds of pollutant gases in addition to CO2. Amounts that often beggar man's contributions.

Many of the longstanding and butt stupid liberal eco-policies have prevented the thinning of our forests through profitable (and tax paying instead of tax costing) enterprises. We know the current forest densities are both manmade and man-maintained, the historical densities were much lower and did not support the kinds of fire like the current 90K acre Pollock Pines fire. Can you dig out how much CO2 in manmade equivalents (e.g. operating a gasoline passenger car for a year) does say an acre or a square mile of fire consumed heavy timber produces? That would be an eye-opener for our readers.

Here's something from NSF on the subject -

Brad C.

GeorgeR 1021am, CO2 is not the only thing that comes out of an exhaust pipe or smokestack. Do I really have to list the toxic soup ingredients? I will add to what I said above, "every process (solar, cosmic, human, geologic) contributes in some way (to variations we observe in climate fluctuation), some more so than others". I do not say humans can control those natural processes. But, did humans exacerbate the desertification of North Africa and the Middle East, or the Dust Bowl, or contribute to the killer fogs in London in the 1950s?
The AGW debate just polarized people and moved people's energies away from what, I think, is the more important topic of toxic, cancer-causing pollutants, and nasty smelling byproducts. Some may get upset about the smell of skunk; I am tired of the stench of diesel smoke and smog. By increasing efficiencies and reducing CO2 emissions (except during hydrogen combustion), don't we also lower the other combustion byproducts thereby improving air quality?


Brad. Checked out Iceland? The current eruption is spewing SO2 by the train load, by the hour.
I won't even venture to guess to try and compare to our own national output.
And the experts say it's not going to end anytime soon. On top of that they are waiting for a full blown catastrophic event.
Do a little history work of the land of fire and ice, and see just how what's happened historically. It's happened more than once, and can, and will happen again.

Here at home we have Mammoth lakes putting out CO2 by tonns. Even up north, Lassen Peak
puts out it's fair share. Alaska? those pop off on a regular basis.

Volcanos around the world are busy, and even if we all drive eco buggys, not a damned thing will change.

But that is never publicized or added to the equation. It's only we humans that are to blame.

George Rebane

BradC 1214pm - We may be talking past each other here. I don't understand what your point is beyond listing some tautologies - e.g. given high enough concentrations of TBD toxins, we're going to have a health problem. No kidding! But yes, you do have to make the case that sufficient amounts of certain toxins known to cause this level (e.g. mortality or morbidity per 100K) health problems are co-emitted with CO2. And also, I don't understand whether your argument intends to substantiate the Teams Gore and Obama AGW hysteria, AND you do believe that we know the science (let alone the economics) well enough to devise palliative public policies that would actually work?? Please explain yourself in a substantive manner, innuendo can only take us so far.


...and from the Mark Steyn v Dr. Michael Mann "Steel Cage Match of Climate Science Death and High Court Twitter Related Matters" ...high comedy ensues!


A sliver of info. for Brad. ( and others)

Claire Witham of the Met Office, is giving a presentation at the European Geosciences Union conference in Vienna this week about impact on the UK of such an eruption. It’s serious stuff. Last October, the British Geological Survey released a report (compiled by Sue Loughlin, Head of Volcanology) that describes what we know about such eruptions:

The 1783-84 Laki event erupted over 14 km3 of basalt lava, releasing millions of tonnes of sulphur dioxide gas that polluted the atmosphere across northwest Europe for months with sulphuric acid fog.
It’s estimated that it killed over 20,000 people in Europe at the time, and new studies suggest that if it happened again today that figure could be 140,000. Furthermore, the acid damages crops and can poison waterways.
We’ve had two Laki-sized eruptions in the past 1,000 years (Laki 1783, Eldgjá 934), and eleven smaller ones (but only two of these erupted >1 km3 magma), so another such eruption is possible in our lifetimes.
Nevertheless, the reality wasn’t exciting enough for the mainstream media, who have reported this as some kind of imminent apocalypse. In lots of science communication, there is a problem with dumbing-down of information. In volcanology, the problem is sexing up.


That's a lot of dead people in the EU from an event in little Iceland.


A graphic map of all the grouchy volcanos around the globe. Yet we humans are the scapegoats for the ills of this marble.

Russ Steele

Below is a list of active volcanos as of June 2014. However, it does not include underwater volcanoes.

  Stromboli (Eolian Islands, Italy)
  Kilauea (Hawai’i)
  Bagana (Bougainville Island, Papua New Guinea)
  Manam (Papua New Guinea)
  Yasur (Tanna Island, Vanuatu)
  Ambrym (Vanuatu)
  Colima (Western Mexico)
  Santa María / Santiaguito (Guatemala)
  Fuego (Guatemala)
  Ol Doinyo Lengai (Tanzania)
  Erta Ale (Ethiopia)
  Barren Island (Indian Ocean)
  Nyiragongo (DRCongo)
  Sinabung (Sumatra, Indonesia)
  Dukono (Halmahera, Indonesia)
  Ibu (Halmahera, Indonesia)
  Lokon-Empung (North Sulawesi, Indonesia)
  Sangeang Api (Indonesia)
  Semeru (East Java, Indonesia)
  Batu Tara (Sunda Islands, Indonesia)
  Slamet (Central Java, Indonesia)
  Marapi (Western Sumatra, Indonesia)
  Ubinas (Peru)
  Reventador (Ecuador)
  Shiveluch (Kamchatka)
  Karymsky (Kamchatka)
  Zhupanovsky (Kamchatka, Russia)
  Sakurajima (Kyushu, Japan)
  Suwanose-jima (Ryukyu Islands, Japan)
  Nishino-shima (Volcano Islands, Japan)
  Erebus (Antarctica)

This list does not include the hundreds of thousands of underwater volcanoes that no one is even monitoring. One survy by Hillier & Watts found 201,055 submarine volcanoes. It is estimated that as many as 3.5 million undersea volcanos exist and about 130,000 are active. This does not include the plethora of smoker vents on the volcanic ridge tops. We just do not know how much CO2 that volcanos produce every year. The lastest guess is about 600 millon tons per year, by Mike Burton, of the Italian National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology.

The average car in the US produces about 11,000 to 12,000 pounds per year. Or, about .5 metric tons. Or, equal to 1,200 million cars, if I got the math right.


From the streets of N.Y.

Yet the N.Y Times says nothing about the Commies.


More things blamed on AGW...


"CO2 is not the only thing that comes out of an exhaust pipe or smokestack"
-Brad C.

Absolutely right. H2O is another huge component of automobile exhaust, and, get this, it's also a greenhouse gas! And the more efficient the engine the more CO2 and H2O you get!

Neither CO2 or H2O are pollutants and ten years from now you're be trying to forget you actually believed the crap you've been told.


Why is it when confronted with facts the "true believers" scram like roaches when the lights go on? They never come back with any "facts" of their own. Just conjecture and "feelings"....( or insults...)
But Brad should be happy shelling out more money in greenhouse gas taxes to help out with that self imposed guilt trip.

Russ Steele

The link below will take you to pictures of the People's Climate March:

It was a fund raiser for Avaaz and according to this report:

Investigative reporter Cory Morningstar has connected the dots between the organizing groups, and Avaaz, the global online activist outfit modeled on MoveOn, and institutions like the World Bank and Clinton Global Initiative. Morningstar claims the secret of Avaaz’s success is its “expertise in behavioral change.”

Excerpt #1:

Here’s what seems to be going on. Avaaz found a lucrative revenue stream by warning about climate catastrophe that can be solved with the click of a donate button. To convince people to donate it says we need Occupy-style actions. When the moment comes for such a protest, Avaaz and 350.orgblocked it and then when it did get organized, they pushed it out of sight. If you go to People’s Climate March, you won’t find any mention of the Flood Wall Street action, which I fully support, but fear is being organized with too little time and resources. Nor have I seen it in an Avaaz email, nor has anyone else I’ve talked to. Bill McKibben of began promoting it this week, but that may be because there is discontent in the activist ranks about the march, which includes lots of Occupy Wall Street activists. One inside source said, “It’s a branding decision not to promote the Flood Wall Street action. These are not radical organizations.”

Excerpt #2:

Sources say Avaaz and is footing most of the bill for the People’s Climate March with millions of dollars spent. Avaaz is said to have committed a dozen full-time staff, and hired dozens of other canvassers to collect petition signatures and hand out flyers. Nearly all of’s staff is working on climate marches around the country and there is an office in New York with thirty full-time workers organizing the march. That takes a lot of cheddar. While the grassroots are being mobilized, this is not a grassroots movement. That’s why it’s a mistake to condemn it. People are joining out of genuine concern and passion and hope for an equitable, sustainable world, but the control is top down and behind closed doors. Everyone I talked to described an undemocratic process. Even staffers were not sure who was making the decisions other than to tell me to follow the money. It’s also facile to say all groups are alike. Avaaz is more cautious than, and apparently the New York chapter of, which is more radical, is at odds with the national.

Excerpt #3:

One source said the December 2013 email from Avaaz Executive Director Ricken Patel about climate change was a goldmine. It was headlined, “24 Months to Save the World.” It begins, “This may be the most important email I’ve ever written to you,” and then says the climate crisis is “beyond our worst expectations” with storms and temperatures “off the charts.” Then comes the hook from Patel, “We CAN stop this, if we act very fast, and all together. And out of this extinction nightmare, we can pull one of the most inspiring futures for our children and grandchildren. A clean, green future in balance with the earth that gave birth to us.”

Telling people there is 24 months to save the world is odious, as is implying an online donation to Avaaz can save the planet.

The same overblown rhetoric is being used for the People’s Climate March: It’s the biggest ever. There is “unprecedented collaboration” with more than 1,400 “partner” groups in New York City. Everything comes down to this one day with the “future on the line and the whole world watching, we’ll take a stand to bend the course of history.”

Just send money and we can change the climate in 24 months.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Steele. Whatever happened to Anna who always told you your house is burning? Just curious, probably off topic. Oh by the way, "Russ, your house is burning." .... Not!

Bill Tozer

Mr. Walt: enjoyed your analogy of cockroaches scrambling away when one turns the lights on. On the flip side on the same coin, turn on the lights and you will attract all sorts of bugs.
If I donate my blood money to the cause, will that stop the scourge that has threatened the existence of life on this planet as we have known it, aka, cockroach flatculence? Heard some cockroaches are really passing gas down at the Roach Motel. Them cockroaches probably have been eating too much healthy organic dried purple kelp. Wise to leave a greenie party when someone brings the bag of kelp out. Phew.
Time to get those pointed toe cowboy boots on and crush them little roaches in corners. Otherwise we will all burn up and die a horrible death by 2010. Or, was that we all would have ocean view property here in Nevada County by 2012? Save the planet and ban baked beans and dried purple kelp.

Russ Steele

Environmental activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. lamented that there were no current laws on the books to punish global warming skeptics. . “I wish there were a law you could punish them with. I don’t think there is a law that you can punish those politicians under,” Kennedy told Climate Depot in a one-on-one interview during the People’s Climate March. The interiew was conducted for the upcoming documentary Climate Hustle.

Kennedy Jr. accused skeptical politicians of “selling out the public trust.” “Those guys are doing the Koch Brothers bidding and are against all the evidence of the rational mind, saying global warming does not exit. They are contemptible human beings. I wish there were a law you could punish them with. I don’t think there is a law that you can punish those politicians under.”

Facts do not matter, if you do not believe the bad science, you could go to jail. Yea, the Pope used to put people in jail for being nonbelievers when science challenged the churches dogma.

Bill Tozer

Liberals, the defenders of the people's rights and tolerance, are always looking for another law first and foremost to justify intolerance and take away rights. Liberalism is a crime against humanity.

But, what you do expect from a politician from The Commonwealth. His uncle, the Lion of the Senate, left politics with half a brain.


Just as we all expected.

Joe Koyote

The Rockefeller family is dumping all of its fossil fuel holdings and re-investing in clean energy as a "moral imperative" for the health of the planet. What does this tell you about what is real and what isn't and who knows what and who doesn't, anything?


Posted by: Joe Koyote | 22 September 2014 at 09:51 AM

Well it certainly confirms that you are a gullible nitwit JoKe. While I'm thinking about it how goes your troubles with the "state"?

Joe Koyote

Carp-- who is the gullible nitwit, the Rockfellers or the deniers? I would think the Rockefellers have access to better information than you do. Fox news and WSJ and Rebane's ruminations aren't really pillars of journalistic integrity. Troubles with the state? You got me there. Perhaps you should stop and pick up all of the marbles on the floor that fell out of your brain. Oh yeah, have a nice day.


LOL Joe,, What make you believe they will follow through? It makes the look good at the moment. Two weeks from now it will be forgotten about.
Unless there is government money or HUGE tax breaks, big money isn't interested.
I read that too. Even the rich hate to lose money, or throw it down a rat hole.

Good ol" Gore has got rich of the hoax. " Do as I say, not as I do."


A little more in depth story for Joe. Not the boiled down version for those with attention defoliate disorder.

Try to get past just the part you crow about.


Carp-- who is the gullible nitwit, the Rockfellers or the deniers?

I thought my post showed who I thought who was the gullible nitwit. That would!

I imagine the Rockefellers make so much money from their purely financial holdings that divesting themselves of oil holdings is probably not a huge deal at this point. Walts suggestion shouldn't be discounted either...that they sell to some other entity over which they hold sway and retain control while still polishing their environmental credentials.


Troubles with the state? You got me there.

That wasn't snark Joe....rumor has it that your nom de internet was that of a certain resident who got popped for growing perhaps a bit more than he was permitted for (an activity that in my estimation should carry no sanction from the state at all).

George Rebane

JoeK 1011am - Thanks for weighing in Joe. I was hoping that someone from the Left would illustrate their arguments in this comment stream. Nothing like a home grown Exhibit A.

In his repartee the liberal can cite neither data nor data source, but the unquestionable axiom observed with tongue-in-cheek by Aleichem's Tevye, 'If you're rich they really think you know.' To our other readers I'd like to point out that this is exactly the troglodytic thinking that held back human advancement (and science) for centuries - the rich and powerful have a lock on truth and reality.

Well, let me state here and now that Dr Koonin, I, and many others trained in the sciences do, in fact, have equal and better access to the needed information than do the Rockerfellers, and moreover, we know what it means. It never occurs to the naïfs that the Rockerfellers' decision may be constrained by ideology and motivated by politics. Most certainly such investment decisions will not markedly affect their portfolio or their QoL.


If Fish is correct "he who got popped" has more to deal with than just the state. Lois Learner's ex employer will be having a nice sit down visit, and taking inventory. Then "sharing the wealth".


How Aristotelian of you, JoKe.

I know of no one named Rockefeller who has as much science knowledge than either me, my son or his late mother, though some might. Why anyone would take their investment strategies as a leading science indicator is beyond the pale.

Science information is free, JoKe, available to all, you just have to know enough to make sense of it, or, for people like you, to find a high priest who says what you want to hear and for you to follow what they tell you to think.


Just waiting for the posts from the "crazy train" return trip. Ya just KNOW some local yahoos had to be on it. That will be as trashed as the streets of N.Y.
They may need to scrap the damned thing.


"It never occurs to the naïfs that the Rockerfellers' decision may be constrained by ideology and motivated by politics." -GR

George, I think it has more to do with the social obligations of the Rockefeller heirs and the sorts of parties they want to be invited to. Not to mention the bucks they think can be made as the market coercions they want inflate the value of "clean" energy investments that are valueless without government action.

George Rebane

Gregory 1235pm - Well yes. " obligations of the Rockefeller heirs and the sorts of parties they want to be invited to." = politics. Agree about their likely investment approach. Now why can't a liberal put all that together?


Hear of Bernie Sanders? ( Elected Socialist) JoeK's hero...

OH PLEASE let him run for Prez...


Paul and Brad will need some ant-acid ( or some bong hits)

A new title for the AGW gang. "Weather pimps".


Tom McClintock called it. The King fire is as bad as it is due to runaway environmentalism.
The ECO gang got the loggers out of the forests so not even thinning could be done.

Now wait for the lawsuits to stop salvage logging.

Bill Tozer

What really matters is not the Peoples Climate Parade of Fools, not the mountains of trash, nor the ghastly carbon monoxide spewing buses bringing thousands of folks in causing massive snarled traffic and more carbon spewing idling cars. Nope, what really matters is after all the speeches and protests and vows of a Brave New World are over, what will be done in the legislative realm.
I say let them have their festivities in the concrete jungle and wish them a safe trip home. Just like Occupie Wall Street. When the party is over, have the adults clean up the kiddies' mess and turn off the lights.


And the report ended with a Democratic strategist outlining how blacks and Hispanics, who don’t usually vote, will be motivated to do so by bringing AGW to them in readily understandable “kitchen table talk” formats in which they are told that all inclement weather events are due to and direct evidence of AGW. To bring us back from the brink and have good weather again, they need to think socialism and vote Democratic.

I suppose that this is a slight improvement in the usual paternalistic interaction with blacks and browns from the progressive white SWPL/SJW cadre! It's usually "we need to give you more free shit". This is an appeal to a loftier goal.

I guess we'll have to see how it will play out?

Joe Koyote

You all can keep cherry picking all of the editorials and articles you want to support your view, but it's not going to change the outcome. To associate climate change to some political plot to destroy capitalism and institute socialism (whatever that is) is pure fiction promoted by the super wealthy because their grip on the world is beginning to slip and their power and extravagant wasteful lifestyles are being threatened by the millions of people who got out in the streets all over the world this past weekend. Spoiled rich kids don't like to be told no. The only people who still deny climate change are the uninformed, misinformed, and ideologically handicapped.

BTW- the Rockefeller decision was purely business. The reasoning behind it was simple dollars and cents. Because oil companies will never be able to pump all of the oil from the leases they hold, their stock value will decline as their assets become unrecoverable. In the face of this, the stock of alternative energy firms will correspondingly increase, Thus the switch away from fossil fuels. Some analysts compare this to the South and slavery. Vast sums of wealth were tied up in the ownership of slaves. When the slave were freed the aristocrats on their plantations lost 2/3 of their wealth. Oil is the same thing.


The only people who still deny climate change are the uninformed, misinformed, and ideologically handicapped.


Ahhh.......Whew...thanks Joe! You just made my morning.

Russ Steele


You wrote this butt stupid remark in the post above: The only people who still deny climate change are the uninformed, misinformed, and ideologically handicapped."

We are not denying that the climate is changing, it has been doing that for billions of years, since the planet was formed and humans arrived. Humans have been recording temperature changes since about 1850. On the other hand the ice core records go back about 800,000 years. In the period between 130,000 and 115,000 years ago, Earth's climate was warmer than today, and their were few humans around to influence that climate change.

The real climate change issue is that you and your fellow lefties are claiming that humans are responsible for the most recent climate change due ot CO2 emissions. A study of rising temperatures along the U.S. West Coast during the past century are almost entirely the result of natural forces — not human emissions of greenhouse gases, according to a new study released in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. More details HERE.

Recent studies have show little correlation between CO2 emissions and temperature change, even the climate models have been proven wrong by the historical record. What factual evidence can provide that humans are responsible for the most recent warming since the 1900? Can you explain the pause in climate change over the past 17 years, while CO2 emissions have continued to increase. Where are your cherry picked facts?

Todd Juvinall

Climate change? Yep, right out my door every day. Manmade global warming? Only in JoeK's mind. My goodness he is a sheeple. JoeK, jump off the cliff man, you are hopelessly brainwashed!

It is and always has been, a political movement. All the commies moved to the green movement after their herops went the way of the DoDo. Hell, even Gorbachev became a greenie!


Well if nothing else Joes argument is a solid position from which to discount the need for further regulation and "Cap and Tax" schemes offered by the presumably non-ideologically handicapped. If oil is indeed a "wasting asset" that the financially astute seek to rid themselves then it would be the gravest of policy errors to get the government addicted to this revenue stream.

I retract my earlier guffaw may have thought this through more than I have given you credit.


Poor Joe has cool-aid bonged the whole glass, and in true Berkeley LIB frat boy fashion
demands a second dose.
Let's have the hard facts there JOsephine. Indisputable numbers scientific data.
ANYTHING other than conjecture and feelings.
Sue Iceland, and demand they put out that volcano. If man can change the weather, we can surely snuff one cantankerous little lava flow and all that SO2 emissions.
A few fire hoses should do the trick,,, right Joe?
Oh silly me... AGW is responsible for the eruption. ( according ECO LIB thinking)

Todd Juvinall

Rockefeller heirs are divesting $60 million from energy of their $50 billion fortune. Now isn't that special? Too funny. Why don't they give it all away? After-all, all that money was made from oil! Oh well, the kids are spoiled I guess. Those cocktail parties are more important.

George Rebane

JoeK 1001am - You are indeed a treasure to behold.

What is hard to understand about the videos of the People's Climate March containing throngs of socialist slogans on placards, and too numerous interviews with the organizers proclaiming the need to capsize capitalism? The ongoing demonstration of how a liberal mind works is always good to see, because when we describe to a person not so exposed, they often have a hard time believing.

And your detail about the economics of an abundant resource approaching commodity pricing levels is also a useful review of liberals' understanding of economics. Most certainly all investors seeing such a future for fossil fuels will exit their long positions - Rockerfellers included. But the only reason that they would then go long on 'green energy' is the expectation of the government's gun used to mangle the markets and mandate green energy winners, much to the dismay of consumers, especially those eternally dimwitted Democrats in the lower two quintiles. The rest of us recall that after the slave owners lost their investments in cotton, that fiber still remained a world staple and demand for it grew, along with the wealth of new investors funding the growth.

The same thing will happen to oil and gas, the world demand for it will grow, and especially in the less developed world. There cheap fossil fuels will give rise to all kinds of energy intensive industries and a better QoL for the people. All this while the green socialist dominated countries that dun fossil fuels keep wondering why their jobs are going overseas, income inequality keeps rising, and their QoL is plummeting. Nevertheless, for an intellectually disadvantaged electorate on the government tit, none of this will matter. Such people will continue to believe that their socialist politicians still have a "stash", filled by taking from the remaining taxpayers and distributed to them forever. It's all on the signs carried in the People's Climate March.


When you plug in your electric car Joe,, take a moment to ponder where the other end of that power line is connected to. Dollars to donuts it's a fossil fueled power plant.


Posted by: Walt | 23 September 2014 at 11:33 AM

Not necessarily could be a lower carbon gas fired (Gas considered less offensive to those similarly non ideologically handicapped like Mr. Koyote while technically being considered a fossil fuel) combined cycle, wind powered or even electricity from a California rump nuclear plant. JoKe can even deliberately pay more by buying an indulgence of "certified" green electricity. If Joe wants to pay triple for his juice that is his right as a consumer.


Talk about Ideologically non handicapped......

I think that this particular Kennedy is missing a great opportunity to serve in the Maduro regime (Venezuela).....those cats know how to punish crimethinkers.


Well then again hydro-electric,, if he can plug right in to the substation,, but then there is your namesake to fawn over. Those evil dams.....

Russ Steele

At the UN Obama went on a non-scientific rant about the pseudoscience of manmade climate change according to a report in Breibart News.

“In America,” he said, “the past decade has been our hottest on record” – neglecting, of course, to mention that according to Christopher Booker of the UK Telegraph, “The US has actually been cooling since the Thirties, the hottest decade on record.” Obama continued with his litany of alarmism: floods, wildfire seasons getting longer, droughts, rainstorms.

“Worldwide,” Obama concluded, “this summer was the hottest ever recorded – with global carbon emissions still on the rise.” In the United States, however, better technologies are stanching the rise of carbon emissions – while 2013 saw a rise in American carbon emissions, America saw a steady decline in CO2 emissions from 2006 on, thanks in large part to recession. That process, by the way, works in reverse as well: purposefully cutting carbon emissions can destroy economies.

Reminds me of JoeK's comment: "The only people who still deny climate change are the uninformed, misinformed, and ideologically handicapped."

It appears to me that President Obama falls into the the "uninformed, misinformed, and ideologically handicapped" category.


"Gregory 1235pm - Well yes. " obligations of the Rockefeller heirs and the sorts of parties they want to be invited to." = politics." GR 22 Sep 12:48 PM

George, no, it's much deeper than Politics. It's tribalism. Friend or Foe, IFF as they say in the military biz.


I should have mentioned that JoKe's IFF is also fully functional and almost certainly would like to think he could also be invited to those sorts of parties. Imagine, being able to hobbnobb with the likes of the socially aware Rockefeller descendants, who actually can afford to employ Real Scientists to tell them what they want to hear, in black tie, while decrying the environmental destruction the soothsaying Goracles have foretold unless the peasantry can be pried out of their cars and suburbs and into high density housing close to the workhouses they have to spend all their time at because they chose the wrong parents.

George Rebane

Gregory 120pm - I just wanted to tell you that I covered the 'politics' aspect of it, but nowhere did I limit it to those factors. I'm sure it's also tribalism, and then you may even add a couple more. (BTW, thanks for the IFF heads up to a guy with decades in the combat systems biz ;-)


George, I figured if I just wrote IFF you'd be the only one to get it. Maybe also Russ.


What am I??? chopped hippie? Me git's it two...


Damn.. Joe is in for more gas...

And from a LIB rag no less.. Looking to be credible?

George Rebane

Gregory 201pm - ;-)


"I think that this particular Kennedy is missing a great opportunity to serve in the Maduro regime" -fish

I actually had the chance to shake the hand of Robert F. Kennedy Version 1.0 in '68, about a week before the tragic end of his Campaign in the California primary at the hand of Sirhan Sirhan. Compared to his alcoholic junkie progeny, RFK looks positively Republican.


George, I figured if I just wrote IFF you'd be the only one to get it. Maybe also Russ. :)

Me as well...I did my time in the "Chair Force".


Posted by: Gregory | 23 September 2014 at 04:53 PM

Republican or not... I'm sure that he wouldn't in any way resemble what clumped together in the dirty end of the Kennedy compound Gene Pool and now speaks at climate rallys.

Bill Tozer

algore said today that the drought in CA is caused by Global warming, hockey stick style, not natural variations of wind and ocean current patterns on our left coast. The LA Times and algore see the same tree differently and each paint a totally different picture. Good thing the Times went with the science on this one.

Then algore went on to say in the next breath that the dry conditions in Ca.........drumroll please.....said the dry conditions sparked the wildfires now burning in Ca. What an absolute genius he is, a regular Dickhead Tracy. There has been wildfires in Ca in September after a long hot summers every single year I have been alive. Holy Smokes, algore in brilliant.
Is it too late to get tickets to the event so I can hear more pearls of wisdom straight from the jackass's mouth, or at least straight from his massage table?


I guess Gore in his infinite wisdom forgot about the 49er fire, which as in Oct.
These huge fires are a direct result of the loggers being driven from the forests.
Now the tree huggers can inhale those tress they like so much.. "organic" air if you will.

Joe Koyote

george 11:20

"And your detail about the economics of an abundant resource approaching commodity pricing levels is also a useful review of liberals' understanding of economics." -- This was not my understanding of the situation. This is what the Rockefeller's trust fund manager said in an interview as to the logic behind the divestment of their (and a group of other billionaires) fossil fuel holdings. The last time I checked, with a few exceptions, the Rockefellers aren't your typical liberals are they? Wasn't VP Nelson Rockefeller a Republican as was Nelson Aldridge (his uncle) who introduced the federal graduated income tax bill in Congress? You see it was the Republicans who started those taxes we all complain about so much.

Bill Tozer

Yep, and both the 49er fire and the King fire were set by humans, not spontaneous combustion caused by a man made hockey stick which causes bushes all over the globe to burst into flames like magic. Tell me, algore, which way does the wind blow?
What an organic douche bag he is.

George Rebane

JoeK 810pm - blaming all the subsequent problems with the graduated income tax on its originator is kinda like blaming all the bad things a person does on the one who once saved his life.


What's the beef with taxes Joe? LIBS love them. And the steeper the tax rate the better.

Russ Steele

Climate Movements Drops Mask, Admits Communist Agenda.

Zombie writes at PJMedia:

Communists along with a few environmental groups staged a “People’s Climate Rally” in Oakland, California on Sunday, September 21, in conjunction with the larger “People’s Climate March” in New York City on the same day.

Wait — did I say communists? Isn’t that a bit of an exaggeration?


At the New York event, many people noticed that gee, there sure are a lot of communists at this march. But in Oakland — always on the cutting edge — the entire “climate change” movement at last fully, irrevocably and overtly embraced communism as its stated goal. Any concerns about “optics” or operating in “stealth mode” were abandoned.

The “climate change” “crisis” is now nothing but the latest justification for “total revolution” and getting rid of capitalism forever.

Photo evidence at the this LINK

RL Crabb

Yes, the goal of destroying capitalism has finally been revealed. It's the reason I have have been so critical of liberals and progressives, even though I consider myself to be liberal on most issues. Just don't expect me to climb on the teapot brigade. Too many religious fanatics and lunatics. And the capitalists have much of the blame on their own heads for this turn of events. You'd think they never read about the French revolution.

Russ Steele

Environmental Wackos Applying Influence

September 24, 2014 A powerful cohort of Silicon Valley firms are bolting from the American Legislative Exchange Council following a renewed spurt of public outrage over the conservative group's views on climate change.

Facebook announced late Tuesday it would likely end its affiliation with ALEC next year, joining a recent wave of tech companies seeking divorce from the controversial organization, which has drawn heated ire from left-leaning public-interest groups for years. Just a day earlier, Google Chairman Eric Schmidt announced plans to cut ties with ALEC, accusing them of "just literally lying" about climate change.

Add Yelp, Google and Microsoft to the list of companies that are supporting the warmers by not funding conservative organizations who refuse to buy into the anthropogenic global warming religion.

Would you buy products from a company that supports bad unproven science like anthropogenic global warming. Science that cannot be validated by observational science!

George Rebane

RLCrabb 808am - There is no doubt that one could ask the big corporations to behave better. But we must always recall that big corporations need the government gun to survive, and it is government that sets/enforces the rules in which opportunistic capitalists operate. Basic truth - the good thing about capitalists is that they game the system, the bad thing about capitalists is that they game the system. Government defines the system, and you never want to it to be such that capitalists are prevented from using their ingenuity to game it. (Obverse of that if you're a socialist.)


Seems it only the U.S. that gets stuck with bill for the scam of AGW.
Where is Mr. SBC?? He has connections in China. ( I recall his bragging about an informational visit a while back.) He needs to pay another visit.

Time to go to work dude,, the world needs you. Maybe they can help you out on that rent problem.

Russ Steele

Investigation: Do you know of anyone in Nevada County that attended the People's Climate March in New York, riding the special train, or the Oakland People's Climate Rally. More details the true nature of these marches HERE.


Was wondering myself Russ, I don't think one will admit to boarding that "special" train.
They are all "touched" in the head to start with.


More.... Short translation... " We don't know sh**"...

In the computer lingo,, " garbage in,, garbage out".

George Rebane

re Walt 1023am - these citations of actual science that do not corroborate any of the AGW claims are either ignored or vehemently denied. Moreover, citing specific data and analyses countering the fomented inter/national hysteria is simply turned on its head, and the person who offers specific citations is attacked. For example look at JoeK's 1001am above that denigrates the "editorial" which reports on the status of climate science and computer models. Such retorts are the sum and stuff on all liberal media including leftwing blogs - the myth must be maintained at any cost (to the taxpayer). BTW, I have no idea what JoeK's education or training is, but I can state with some certainty that his and my expertise in science and computer simulation do not overlap.

Further on how socialist economics fails on the grand scale, consider what Germany is walking back on their green energy programs given their decisions to reject nuclear power and limit fossil fuel energy production. Their energy costs are going through the roof, and now Merkel is forced to start using more coal than ever to provide Germans electricity. The country's much ballyhooed 2020 carbon reduction goals have just gone out the window big time. More here in 'Germany's Coal Binge' -

Meanwhile, a gaggle of central planners and controllers (aka useless idiots) are gathering in NYC to set plans for the 2015 climate fiasco.


How true George.. I recall posting pic.s of weeds growing over an abandoned solar power plant. The true believers couldn't even accept the visual evidence. Yes,, the Germans basically said " Screwin zee THIS!" Then there was the comment " Other people's money has run out We are going back to the cheap and reliable sources."


A little update from Iceland.

Please note the record breaking gas emissions
" Gas releases are record-breaking figures: approx 10-20,000 tons of gasses (mainly SO2) are released each day." And this has been going on for close to a month.
SO2 is far more dangerous than CO2 to "climate".

Bill Tozer

After listening to NPR, I learned a new phrase. It's called environmental racism. Catchy, is it not? Am I an environmental racist, or just a common run of the mill racist? Inquiring minds would like to know.

The other thing I learned (besides some actor name Leo is an official UN Peace Ambassador) is that if we stop the flow of oil, militaries across our Orb could not wage war cause armies wage war on oil. No oil, no fueling a war. Just think of all the money we would save by cutting off fossil fuels to war machines. Armies fight on oil, not for oil. Berry, berry interesting.

Yes, there is more. All these nations gathered together after the Global Warmer's Parade declared promises to reforest one million miles of this Orb. From Canada, down to the USA, down to the Amazon jungles of Latin America, especially the Amazon rainy forests. However, the heads of states of the rainy forests countries voted no cause they were all butt hurt big time. Seems nobody consulted them before the vote and they cross their arms and pouted and gave the ole thumbs down.

The final thing I learned was a no brainer and easier than shooting fish in a barrel. But, I learned I was correct once again to my relief. All the proclamations issuing forth from New York City are non-binding. Flowery words were like red meat the the assembled masses, yet when the rubber meets the road, it was a big pep rally and nothing to show for it. See ya next time in Lima then in Paris. Start writing more speeches and stamp out environmental racism while you are at it. Too hip, gotta go. My private jet is awaiting.


For those who missed it, an account of Koonin's WSJ piece was carried in Physics Today, a publication of the American Institute of Physics.

I hadn't made the connection, but Dr.Koonin is the guy the American Physical Society tapped to review the science for their revisit of their climate change statement, charing the workshop that reviewed the science last winter. I'd say, considering the strong language in the WJS piece, the APS may well be on the way to being the first major scientific organization to jump off the AGW bandwagon.

George Rebane

Gregory 858pm - Good catch Gregory, keep us posted.


The cool-aid drinkers are looking for a stronger brand of elixir now.
The ginned up computer models have been debunked with the garbage in, garbage out information, ( all about grant money to spend) Funny thing about silicon chips, you can make them spit out anything you want, and call it gospel. The jig is UP!
So much for that "The science is settled" crap. Seems it's the AGW kooks that are science DENIERS.

Well I'm good and ready for the coming cold, I have my supply of sequestered carbon well stacked and in plentiful supply. ( the local gas man hates me)

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