Sandbox - 6oct14

[I'd like to start this fresh sandbox with a bit of an admonition to those (self-centered?) readers who jump into the middle of a comment stream with a notion or a question that they think is unique, original, and not seen before either in the current comment stream, or in a multi-post treatment of the same subject (like currently Measure S).  They do this without perusing the discussion which has been ongoing, perhaps, for several hundred comments, and then demand that their rehash of something long answered and dispensed with deserves a whole new treatment for their self-centered hubris.  Many of us tire of this game, and not all take such forays as kindly as do I.  My opinions are here for all to read as is my socio-political credo.  If you want to make progress, reference what I have said and then demonstrate how it is weak or in error.  That I will gladly defend, or if you are compelling, I will change my mind.  Barn circling is not my favorite dance.  As I requested of one commenter, 'Do your homework.'']

Comments

[Bill Tozer]

Oh goodie, a new sandbox for this cat to bury something in. Let's get ready to rumble!

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-thousands-of-undersea-volanoes-revealed-in-new-ocean-map-20141003-story.html

[Bill Tozer]

Speaking to Dr. Rebane's admonishment to do your homework and with all due respect to the good Doctor, it ain't as easy to do one's homework as it once was. Taking from Mr. Steele's blog, it might be time to count on fingers and toes, make those hash marks we see in stranded folk on deserted island movies or using knots tied on string. Now I can't even do 38 minus 2 except in my head.

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/20/5625086/the-common-core-makes-simple-math-more-complicated-heres-why

[George Rebane]

BillT 749pm - If that is true Mr Tozer, then how are the climate alarmist going to believe that ocean temperatures are driven by the atmospheric green house effect? Now there's another aspect of reality that Team Gore and the feds have to sweep under the rug. 'Oh what tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive'.

[Gregory]

Some may have missed the latest... all that heat that was said to have been hiding in the deep oceans (mainly because the warmists needed a place for it to be, and that was the only candidate) isn't there... the deep oceans, rather than heating, got a bit cooler.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4321

To make it easy for Jeffie and the Lickspittles to understand, if the missing heat doesn't exist anywhere, the alarmist argument fails.

Enjoy.

[Bill Tozer]

Well, it's approaching that time of year again:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/06/columbus-day-will-now-be-indigenous-peoples-day-in-seattle/?intcmp=latestnews

Let me be the first to start this ball rolling a week early. Just who are the indigenous peoples, or the First Nations as they say in Canada? Certainly not the Apaches cause they only been here in what is now the US for only 400 years after migrating North. Not the Navaho cause the Hopi were before them, about 1,500 years ago. Before them it was another people. How about this for an answer: The French. Yep, could be.
There is good evidence that the people from the area known today as France traveled the Trans Atlantic ice to North America and followed the herds south as far to around the current US-Canadian border. Blue eyed people and DNA supports this 100%. Even when the pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock, they were greeted by a "Native American" with blue eye and fair skin. Hundreds of accounts of this same Native Peoples fills explorers' journals, some understanding English.
Now, of course, there is the debate whether peoples from Asia crossed the Trans-Pacific ice first or whether the peoples from what became France crossed the Trans-Atlantic ice first or simultaneously. Hmmmmm.

Next time I see my ex the Cherokee Princess I might tell her that the French were here before her peoples and my peoples. She has a bad temper as it is, but considering that she has a bit of German in her blood as well, she will probably flip her wig and put on the war paint. Germans, like most peoples, don't care for the French. It is possible that Mr. R L Crabb and his frogleg eating ancestors are why we celebrate Indigenous Peoples Day. Go figure.

[Bill Tozer]

Addendum to last post. Ahh, I said within myself. The blue eyed people were left behind by Eric the Red and his gang of merry plunderers, no doubt. Wrong. DNA predates the Vikings. Hmm. What about the local "savages" along the Eastern Seaboard and the tribes inland? Nope, DNA predates them too. Gives new meaning to the French and Indian Wars. Not all the blue eyed natives had fair skin. Did they breed with the Asians in a East meets West 3 week long love feast?
Another post to be filed in the Encyclopedia of Worthless Information.... Unless it was those darn aliens messing with us again. Prehistoric crop circles and all that jazz.

[fish]

Barry Pruett would be taken more seriously if he know how to spell: “Much has been written about Measure S already, but one thing that has been largely overlooked is the conduct of our elected officials and County employees (whose salaries are paid for by taxpayers’s) during the process.”

What is a “taxpayers’s”? I wonder what this guy’s legal briefs look like. LOL.

“taxpayers’s”...that would be a typo jeffy.....rumor has it that before you founded "Food Porn of the Sierra Foothills" you used to work in print journalism. I find it interesting that you are surprised by it.

I find the occasional typo far less disturbing than a man in his late forties or early fifties who swoons over a politician liking a Facebook post....

jeffpelline says:

October 4, 2014 at 9:20 pm

“San Francisco values.” BTW, I posted this on Facebook and Art Moore (who’s running against Tom McClintock) “liked” it. I guess he’s OK with “S.F. values.” Don’t tell others. LOL.

That's just sad.

....and as always LOL.

[Russ Steele]

The terrible truth about cannabis: Expert's devastating 20-year study finally demolishes claims that smoking pot is harmless

• One in six teenagers who regularly smoke the drug become dependent
• It doubles risk of developing psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia
• Heavy use in adolescence appears to impair intellectual development
• Driving after smoking cannabis doubles risk of having a car crash
• Study's author said: 'If cannabis is not addictive then neither is heroin'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2782906/The-terrible-truth-cannabis-British-expert-s-devastating-20-year-study-finally-demolishes-claims-smoking-pot-harmless.html#ixzz3FSvBBJu7

[RL Crabb]

Mr. Tozer 10/6 11:40pm - Don't lecture me about those damn Cherokee princesses, I got scalped by one. My definition of "indigenous people" is them who happened to be there when you arrived. Us white people get a little nervous when there's talk of the American Holocaust, better known as the Trail of Tears. Even an old Indian fighter like Davy Crockett thought Andy Jackson was the devil. Someday they'll kick that asshole off the twenty dollar bill.

[fish]

The terrible truth about cannabis: Expert's devastating 20-year study finally demolishes claims that smoking pot is harmless

• One in six teenagers who regularly smoke the drug become dependent
• It doubles risk of developing psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia
• Heavy use in adolescence appears to impair intellectual development
• Driving after smoking cannabis doubles risk of having a car crash
• Study's author said: 'If cannabis is not addictive then neither is heroin'

You could easily get away with substituting "alcohol" for cannabis in the above Russ.....society has managed to deal with those costs. It really doesn't matter though....the "evil weed" is here to stay.

[Barry Pruett]

Jeff Pelline wonders what my briefs look like? That is private. Only my wife gets to see my briefs.

[Michael R. Kesti]

Russ Steele 07Oct14 06:30 AM

The referenced article does not define "become dependent." Does "doubles the risk" mean the a statistically insignificant rise from, for example, from 0.00001% to 0.00002? What is "heavy use"? Why is no link to the article's referenced study provided?

In my opinion, anybody who would claim that marijuana and heroin are similarly addictive does not qualify as expert on the topic.

fish 07Oct14 07:08 AM

"Tobacco" would make an even better substitution.

[fish]

Posted by: Michael R. Kesti | 07 October 2014 at 07:17 AM

Except the three middle bullet points would have to be removed. Tobacco generally sharpens attention and mental acuity and there is no link of which I am aware to schizophrenia......it's pretty well established that schizophrenics benefit from tobacco consumption.

[fish]

Noted social scientist jeffy Pelline pHD has puzzled out that you...."THE HARD RIGHT™"....that your intransigence regarding common core really is little more than crypto-racism.

He'll be watching you!!!!! Always watching.........

Editor’s note: This is an excerpt from the CABPRO newsletter for September. It is an article titled the “New, New Math.” It offers real insight into what CABPRO and the local extreme right is really about: not protecting private property rights, not being a champion for education; just fighting back against the slow death of “White America.” It’s a tough pill for them to swallow. The CABPRO’ers ought to be teaching their grandkids to embrace non-white culture. Heck, even pot is going to be legal in California one day.

Fortunately though "Fat Shaming" will still be perfectly acceptable in "NEW AMERICA™"!

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. Crabb. No lectures here you friggin frog leg eating Frenchie. :)

So, you got scalped by a Cherokee Princess, eh? Well, I have had bigger scratches on my eyeballs than a little head wound. Try this one on for size. The little Cherokee Princess with German Shoulders and I got into a heated argument. Told her I am leaving and headed to the door to go get good and drunk. She said "you aren't going anywhere" and pulled out a 22 and shot me in the leg! Just a flesh wound I confess that hit the outer skin of my calf. Undeterred by that little incident, I headed out the door and hopped in my vehicle. Just as I was ready to pull out, I see in the darkness a baseball ball crashing through the window with the little woman on the other end of the bat. Yep, I did not go anywhere than quiet evening. She threw her arms around me and told me she loved me. She somehow always got the last word in. Yep, all is fair in love and war.

I miss that little lady on occasion. I do find high spirited women strangely attractive and am drawn to them. You can put 12 women against the wall and I will pick the crazy one every time. At least the Cherokee Princess was not as crazy or wild as the last two. Best to stay single nowadays since I have a broken picker. Don't need to get scalped. Might make me late for work.
PS: Mr Crabb, have I told you lately that I love you. :)

[RL Crabb]

I'm blushing, Mr. T. Sounds like you need to check into a monastery to keep out of trouble. Their food is full of salt peter.

[George Rebane]

Regular readers will be happy to know that RR got its moment in the sun about our coverage and voluminous debate over the Measure S initiative. We are prominently featured in the 7oct14 Union’s lead article on page one (here). For readers new to RR wishing to read the entire series on Measure S, I have collected the post titles below, the links to these articles may be found in the right column of this page under ‘Recent Posts’.

[George Rebane]

Former SecDef and Dir CIA Leon Panetta is the latest prominent personage to recognize that we are engaged in a war between civilizations that he likens to the 30-Year War and expects the current one to continue at least that much longer. (See also his new book Worthy Fights After my study of history and looking at the events since the mid-80s, I concluded some years back that Islam was indeed in a civilizational war with the west, and I made my case to RR readers at the time.

The pushback from the progressives was immediate and has been constant since then. However, as of late they have called in the Cricket Corps to deliver their counter arguments as the evidence for such a war has become overwhelming.

Even the severely intellectually disabled today can appreciate that Islam, starting with its more fundamental sects, cannot survive in a world in which the trappings and ideas of western civilization are dominant. And one does not have to dig down to the Wahabi levels of fundamentalism to see how primitive and out of step with the times that religion is. The major sects of Sunni and Shia give daily testimony to ideologies and thinking that has nothing to offer the world but a global dystopia.

Starting with the Obama administration, I do not expect the progressives to grok this phenomenon any time soon.

[Bill Tozer]

Uhuh, Dr Rebane. This good news will set in motion a flurry of posts from Bubbabubba. The Union has gone hard right! and all that stuff from the soft flaccid one. He'll hath no fury like a magina scorned.

[fish]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 07 October 2014 at 10:41 AM

Yeah...it's been a ghost town over there which is why he appears to be "spicing" things up a bit recently.

PS: You guys are all obviously racist! ;-)

[A. Patriot]

Another perspective for the sanbox http://marijuana.com/news/2014/10/carl-sagans-long-lost-deep-thoughts-on-the-war-on-drugs/

[Account Deleted]

From the good Dr. Crabb - "My definition of "indigenous people" is them who happened to be there when you arrived."
Uh - that would be Sutter Memorial, 1951. Kollyfornya was mostly all Euro white folks then as I remember.
Notice how grievance groups always trace year zero back to when the white folks arrived? Slavery, torture, genocide, infanticide and (ahem) wars on wimins could already be in full swing, but as soon as the white guys show up - IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT!
And why do the lefty types love to tell us about how evil the feds are in regards to their dishonesty and underhandedness with some folks but when the conservatives point out the same activities now, we are called all sorts of bad names?

[George Rebane]

I call your kind attention to the 8oct14 update to 'Measure S - The Numbers Please'
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2014/10/measure-s-the-numbers-please.html

[RL Crabb]

Herr Obermuller 6:14pm - I assume you are aware of the history surrounding Jackson's betrayal of the Indians. While it may be true that he was only doing what the majority of Americans wanted, it doesn't forgive the atrocity. I suppose the Germans used the same justification in the 30's.

[Bill Tozer]

It is important to understand that everyone was an opinion, a point of view, and an agenda.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/serial-killer-makes-impassioned-case-for-protectin,37099/

[fish]

DANGER: Fat Man Whining again!

Look at the people who are lining up to support Meckler and the Union’s decision to publish this kind of letter: tea-party activist Barry Pruett (“those pesky ‘San Francisco values’ do not fly in this conservative county”) who lost his race for clerk-recorder in every precinct; George Rebane (“I wasn’t aware the letter from Meckler was toxic or divisive”), the one-time planning commissioner for Drew Bedwell; or CABPRO founder Todd Juvinall or “fish,” an anonymous commentator on the hard right blogs who doesn’t even live in our community but writes shrill political letters to The Chronicle defending gun ownership rights.

Shrill?? Moi?

The psychological projection.......IT BURNS! I rather enjoyed participating in a mock fest of a another whiny putz displaying his "SF values".

The sentence that compelled me to respond: The guns don't teach children, provide clean drinking water or help a senior across the street.

The original article:

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Glock-handguns-appeal-unabated-after-Tucson-2478397.php

My letter in response:

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2011/tle603-20110116-02.html

Don't you think you're really better suited to doing puff pieces about your love of food and Avril Lavigne?

[fish]

“fish,” an anonymous commentator on the hard right blogs who doesn’t even live in our community but writes shrill political letters to The Chronicle defending gun ownership rights.

Also Mr. Logic Challenged.....why would me not living in your "community™" have any impact on me writing a letter to the Chronicle (which much like you didn't publish it......can't be be scaring the "SF values" with thoughtcrime now can we).

Now how about some more Avril Lavigne chat......?

[Account Deleted]

Bob - You make my point. All my life I was only told about the atrocities committed by Euro-whites. I'm not trying to excuse any atrocity. Folks all over the world do really bad things to each other. But that's not the narrative the left wants us to hear. It's a human problem, not just certain groups. Why do only Euro-whites have to cough up 'reparations'? I'm part Slavic - that's where the word 'slave' came from. Where are my peoples' reparations? The only victim group I care about are the folks seeking freedom from oppressive govts. National origin, skin color, income and religion have nothing to do with it.

[George Boardman]

How can you call Stan Meckler divisive when he's willing to reach across the political chasm and break bread with Ms. Reinette? (To her credit, she broke bread with him a Lumberjacks, a place she probably wouldn't be caught dead in otherwise.)

Isn't this the kind of kumbaya moment Mr. Bubba claims conservatives are always trying to thwart? It just goes to show you can't please some of the people any of the time.

As for Bruce Levy, I'll bet he got marked down in elementary school because he didn't play well with others.

[George Rebane]

Re FUE’s latest use of my name in vain and continuing attack on The Union viz Stan Meckler’s letter opposing Jim Firth. Our designated reader of the FUE’s blog emailed me his latest screed that is so full of … of …, oh hell, you know what it’s full of. I don’t want to waste ink on the details. Nothing has changed since I posted these some years back –
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/06/re-jeff-pelline-for-the-record.html
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/09/journalist-fue-sleazebag.html

But I do want to dampen one bit of happy dancing that is a constant theme in his ‘reportage’, that the retirees demographic is shrinking. There is no evidence to support that the percentage of our older citizens, now around 20% of the county’s population, is dropping. He fails to recognize that, yes, older people die in greater numbers, but new cadres of retirees also continue moving into these foothills to enjoy our lifestyle in their sunset years. And they do bring with them the wisdom and experience that comes with years (especially years that still antedate the cold grip of The Great Society on our country).

[Russ Steele]

Is the Sheriff Royal giving up his MRAP? This is a resolution on the BOS Calendar for next week, or is this yet again another armored vehicle.

Resolution declaring Vehicle No. 56101, the 1990 Ford F700 Armored Vehicle, as surplus, and authorizing the donation of surplus property to the City of Long Beach. (Purchasing) (4/5 affirmative vote required.)

[George Rebane]

RussS 1249pm - No, this is not regarding the 'new' MRAP. The sheriff has had a lesser model of an urban assault vehicle for some years that was basically a version of a Brink's armored car. This is the one I was told that they are getting rid of now that the MRAP is here.

[fish]

George,

Be honest. Without allowing "sackheads" to comment on your blog, you would hardly have any commentary. Why do so few people in the community want to post on your blog to stick up for you? It's so sad. Much sadder than the "sad tale of Anna Haynes" that you wrote about earlier.

Posted by: Jeff Pellne | 14 June 2010 at 09:40 PM

Yeah George.......and you can't go to jeffys party....and there's going to be a pony.....and cake......and a clown (other than the guest of honor)...cause nobody likes you! Yeah! That'll show ya!

jeez jeffy......you're a middle aged, 400 lb. man with a snotty 8 year old boy pulling all the levers inside your noggin!

[Gregory]

Wow, an all time record!

Checking just now, a full 9 of the last 10 comments at Pelline's blog are by Jeffie himself and the family sock puppet, "Annie Fox".

A slow day for Scoopy.

[Bill Tozer]

"Wow, an all time record!

Checking just now, a full 9 of the last 10 comments at Pelline's blog are by Jeffie himself and the family sock puppet, "Annie Fox".

A slow day for "Scoopy".

Oh, BubbaBubba is just tired of getting sloppy seconds and thirds and fourths. The Pillsbury Doughboy keeps trying to be relevant. Gotta give The Dynamic Duo an A for effort yet he has earned his spot at the back of the line eating our dust. He needs a bigger Pooper Scooper. Pathetic.

Annie Fox? I once knew a stripper known as Annie Fox. Can't be the same one. Heck, what are the chances? Fine dancer and great personality. Last I heard she was hitting the circuit under the names Barbie Doll and Annie Ample, but I digress.

[Account Deleted]

As a teen, I always wondered how adults would allow folks like Hitler and Stalin come to power. Now - I sadly know.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/09/famous-actress-on-obama-it-would-be-wonderful-if-we-were-able-to-give-this-man-all-of-the-power-that-he-needs/
Can't humans learn anything?

[Patricia Smith]

The posts by Russ Steele and Fish outlining the horrors of marijuana reek of Reefer Madness. The study they refer to is a sham and every point has been disproven in thousands of medical studies. (Please see our website for a partial list of over 4,000 studies, www.asa-nc.com)

The claim that marijuana leads to schizophrenia was proven to be false in the 90's. To equate marijuana "addiction" with heroin or meth is just irresponsible and has lead many young people to harder drugs because once they see that marijuana is not the killer drug they were lead to believe, they stop believing the claims made against heroin or meth. A VERY dangerous proposition.

The Dept of Transportation has stated that traffic fatalities in states that have legalized medical marijuana are 8% lower than states that have not legalized marijuana. So much for "doubling the risk of an accident." It's OK if you don't like marijuana (medical or otherwise), but it's not OK to make up "facts" to support your beliefs.

[Russ Steele]

Dear Patricia,

I gave readers a link to the 20 year study report. I did not make any claims one way of the other, just provided the highlights to 20 years of research. How long were the no harm studies? Perhaps you can produce some specific links to refute the claims in the study. I do not have time to read all 4,000 studies looking for evidence. One link for each claim will do the job. Looking forward to reading your rely.

[fish]

The posts by Russ Steele and Fish outlining the horrors of marijuana reek of Reefer Madness.

Maybe you need to put the bong down and come down for awhile! I'm the completely legalize, no regulation, grow as much as you want in your backyard guy!

[Todd Juvinall]

I think the "reefer madness" is an actual malady of those that smoke the weed. I know too many people who have smoked it incessantly since their youth and still have no pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. The nation is not better off with either all those "potheads" or drunks. The ultimate freedom to abuse your own body and mind under our Constitution has not made America a better place. But it has allowed the self abuse of oneself which the YES folks want to codify in law. The nation will be stoned and happy as those that wish us harm and demise look on. What a great country!

[Paul Emery]

Russ

Since you are obviously opposed to the legalization of MJ let me ask you this simple question. How should the law be enforced and how much money are you willing to spend for enforcement and incarceration? Should States have the right to determine their own destiny in this matter?

[fish]

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 09 October 2014 at 10:51 PM

Yes Scott....Ms. Paltrow has added another entry to the collective lexicon...."Mona Lisa Smile"....."jeffy Pelline Ass"....Gwyneth Paltrow Stupid!

[Russ Steele]

Paul Emory @ 10:37

I am not against legal MJ, I am against a pot farm next door to the west of my house, just like I would be opposed to a pig farm or chicken farm next door. I do not want to smell pig or chicken shit, or pot on the easterly breezes. I say legalize it, tax it and grow it on approve agricultural land. Get the illegal grows out of the forest, get the illegal grows out of private neighborhoods and let professional farmers grow the stuff just like tobacco and sell it to all the pot heads that can afford it, Restrict welfare so it cannot be used to buy pot, just like ti cannot be used to buy booze and cigarettes now.

That said, I support the opposition to Measure S it a poorly written proposition that has more loop holes in it than our county roads have pot holes. No pun intended.

[Patricia Smith]

Since Russ doesn't have the time to read 4,000 studies about MJ (who does), I am providing him one link to each of the points he posted about the dangers of medical marijuana: Have fun reading!

• One in six teenagers who regularly smoke the drug become dependent
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/10/harvard-marijuana-doesnt-cause-schizophrenia/63148.html
• It doubles risk of developing psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/10/harvard-marijuana-doesnt-cause-schizophrenia/63148.html
• Heavy use in adolescence appears to impair intellectual development
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/03/your-government-lying-you-again-about-marijuana
• Driving after smoking cannabis doubles risk of having a car crash
http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/why-medical-marijuana-laws-reduce-traffic-deaths/
• Study's author said: 'If cannabis is not addictive then neither is heroin'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/09/no-marijuana-is-not-actually-as-addictive-as-heroin/

[Bill the skunk smeller Tozer]

Golly Snerd, I come to the Sandbox to get away from all this Toke of the Town crap. Shit, Pot Talk on every post. Nowhere to hide. We have hundreds of comments on Measure S and dope all over this fine blog. The whole blog now reeks of skunk, just like shopping at the Briar Patch or the Fur Trader. Get a life. There is more to living than getting high and demanding access instead of ownership.

Well, if you can't beat em, then join em.
http://www.ncscooper.com/local-farmerband-leader-chooses-fedex-for-all-his-shipping-needs/#.VDpuvmK9KK0

[Al]

Throw this into the Pot of Alternative Analysis:

https://news.yahoo.com/grow-cheap-marijuana-italy-calls-army-095026545--finance.html

[George Rebane]

AI 736am - Happy soldiers indeed! While the Italian military has not amounted to much for at least the last 100 years, I'm not in favor of bestowing an equivalent favor on my alma mater, the US Army ;-) But large commercial grows right here in the western ag areas of NC should be looked at as a low cost alternative to everyone having to 'grow their own medicine' (love that phrase).

[Bill Tozer]

This is my last comment on cultivation. This topic got me doing my own research and talking to trustworthy sources working in the industry. I have been out of the game for 30 years and what I found/saw shocked even me. Having a 64 plant garden I though of as a normal small garden, but that does not even come close. The traffickers here are some big boys rivaling the Mexican cartels. ALL are corporations that own hundreds if not thousands of acres. Even the East Coast mafia has set up shop with very well run clean smooth operations out in open. All I choose to say is with my new perspective, this whole mom and pop and teenager cultivation ordinances seems rather petty and silly. Cottage industries? Surely you jest. It ain't about sick patients or the guy next door. Paul E was closest when he said it was about delivery (systems), Prop 215 was a wee bit too late to the party and Measure S can't hold a candle to the corporations. Cottage industries? What a joke. Like comparing TeeBall to the majors. Had no clue. Monsanto coming to a farm near you is no longer just a tongue in cheek retort.

[RL Crabb]

To Brad Croul - I see you've been schooled by Scoopy in How To Do You Job as a Planning Commissioner and outed as a pawn of the Good Ol' Boys. After you've passed the initiation ceremony by spending the night at the bottom of the Idaho-Maryland Mine, the Clampers will be by to tattoo Ronald Reagan's face on your chest with a rusty square nail. Welcome to the club!

[Todd Juvinall]

Brad Croul, so you are a "good ol' boy eh? Only Pelline could say that and believe it I guess. Welcome to our group of men and women who have made this county work! LOL!

Maybe you will get a cartoon as I did from Mr. Crabb. He made me the devil! Too funny!

[Brad C.]

Lol! Well, I consider myself a "good" person, I am a "boy" and I am getting "old" ... so, if the shoe fits...I wonder if I could ask for a different tatoo though...Ronald Reagan is not nefarious enough... maybe Mr. Potter (It's a Wonderful Life)?

[Ben Emery]

Sorry Brad,
You were not inducted into the good old boy network by Jeff as some here are suggesting. It was Steve Dodge that started that meme and Jeff gave an explanation of why it could be perceived as a gobn decision. I don't know Ronald Reagan has the honor of defunding the UC system, stereotyping welfare recipients as driving Cadillac's, dealing arms to terrorists, empowering both Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, and having the blood of tens of thousands of people on his hands with Iran/ Contra as the commander in chief to name a few things. But I do like the rusty nail part of the tattooing.

Steve Dodge says:
October 11, 2014 at 9:04 pm

Well, it looks like the good old boy/insider network is at it again. Approval of this project will be a slam dunk with the applicant the chairman of the Planning Commission and a member of the City Council part of the family. Since this is a “scoop” and the general public is just hearing about it I am amazed there are 13 letters in favor of it, one dated September 7, Insider information?

The public hearing will be Oct. 16 at 1:30pm when a large segment of the public will be working. What ever happened to 6:30pm meetings to accommodate public participation? Maybe the city does not want the public at these meetings.

[Brad C.]

Oh, shit! I just realized that I converse with you guys, and you guys are part of the subversive GOB group, so, guilty as charged - case closed!

[Todd Juvinall]

Ben Emery, as you always tell us and everyone else, "you fail to see the big picture". Not only are we GOB's extremists reprobates, we are recruiting and growing in number. Soon we will take over the world! Psst! Don't tell anyone that we allow a few babes into our ranks. No one knows.

[Bill Tozer]

Well Brad, you do appear to be a good person from here in the nose bleed seats. Conversing with the enemy may be hazardous to your health, reputation, and livelihood. Hope your mate does not leave you for this act of treason. Better button down the hatches cause a storm is a brewing and coming your way from the intolerant and intolerable thought police.

Reagen tattoo? You mean it's not a Che tattoo? Better shower in the dark and avoid the river. I just wish Obama hated terrorists the way he hates Fox News and I wish the enlightened ones hated censorship of different views as much as they hate Bush. Will never happen, but I remain cautiously optimistic. Calling you boy is quite racist and I am deeply offended.

On the topic of boys, Yesterday afternoon I saw a great sticker on the back window of a jacked up off road pickup complete with roll bar on the bed and another inside the cab. The sticker read "Silly boys, trucks are for girls". Don't think that young lady realizes the importance of being PC nor is aware of "the struggle" against racism, sexists, and the good old boys club that has brought us to where we find ourselves today.

[RL Crabb]

That's right, Brad! You talk to the wrong people. You have been co-opted and tainted by association. Maybe you've been wondering what that noise in your head means. It's the dog whistle, man! Your only hope is to start wearing a hat, like me, with tin foil lining. It's the only thing that keeps Barry Pruett from making me vote Republican.

[Walt]

Went through Placerville today and a NIXON is running for office! ( The name alone would get my vote alone... Tricky Dick is owed an apology for what "O" has gotten away with.)

Now I see my cat is also up for election as well! I see " Bronson" signs all over our little valley. Now how did he manage that? ( My pilfer one of those signs and take a picture of him in front of it. Another "fat cat" looking at an elected position.
And probably do a better job.)

[Bill Tozer]

Just as I predicted. The hospital in Texas where one of the staff caring for the ebola patient has caught the virus is turning away patients because their staff is overwhelmed. Not due to concerns of the virus spreading within the hospital, but merely that the staff is overrun with the two cases.
It takes 21 health care folks to care for one Ebola patient and that hospital now has two patients, thus no one available for the ER and other patients that need to be hospitalized..

Considering we in the USA have all the state of the art equipment and protective wear, I find it puzzling that if we can barely handle just 2 cases at a major US hospital, why did Obama override the CDC and say no need for travel bans? Nothing to see here.
Having better clinics and more rubber gloves in Africa just ain't gonna cut it Mr. President, as you told the leaders of the African nations just a few weeks ago. They asked for the newest latest experimental unapproved drugs to fight this outbreak and you told them they need a better Heathcare delivery system. Sad but true. What, me worry?

Perhaps a beer summit will fix everything. Meanwhile, the TB outbreak near the border in San Diego among children had moved north up to Orange County. Nothing to see here, another beer summit is in order.

[Gregory]

In the "tilting at windmills" category, I see now the DoD is at "full tilt" against both Ebola and Global Warming. How can we lose?

PS nice wiki entry on that sort of tilting ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_at_windmills

[Bill Tozer]

Global Warming is the real threat to the existence of Blessed Mother Earth, dirty little satanic humanoids and Mother Goose, so why worry about little tiny itty bitty irritants like ISIS or some African virus. Glad we got our priorities right and our ducks in a row.
BTW, is it just me and my pathetic warped mind or do other people who when they hear the word Ebola, the sound of Heidi's papa in the Alps singing out "Ricotta" reverberates through their heads? Probably just me and an ominous warning to others if you do too many drugs, you too will be singing Ricotta from the mountain tops.

Yep, Global Warming is ready to fry us like snails on hot asphalt, then drown us all like kittens in a gunny sack tossed over the Tallahassee Bridge. Meanwhile, can the DoD kindly tell us what will happen to our few hundred boots on ground soldiers....er...advisors when ISIS comes marching into Bagdad? They already have a clear shot to the Bagdad Airport. What will we have them do then? Have them say Beam Me Up Scottie or will it be another "what difference does it make" moment?

Guess with Global Warming runnin' amok from polar cap to polar cap, little problems like Ebola and ISIS will be relegated to their rightful place on the Itty Bitty Molehill Committee.

[Gregory]

Say it ain't so!
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/ebola-chocolate-industry-africa-effects-111809.html

Watch for a presidential address before the election to promise potential female voters that troops are being deployed to all West African cocoa producers to protect choco workers from Ebola so there will not be a chocolate gap.

[Ben Emery]

Why do you guy think it is the job of the US to try and straighten out Middle East regional strife? I know it is because you guys put "jobs" and "economy" over people. Basically convincing us that American Interests are at stake and US energy industry fossil fuels somehow got under their soil.

What do you claim is the reason the US military should be used in conflicts thousands of miles from home creating more enemies by the day?

If your answer is because they might or want to hurt us here, then answer the question "Why" would they want to hurt us here?

Could it possibly be our military interventions in their governments/ public policies assuring private energy industry profits for a century?

If this is true isn't that an endless cycle that perpetuates permanent state of war?

Can we as a nation sustain such a war? Hasn't every military empire in the past crumbled under the weight of that same policy?

[fish]

Posted by: Ben Emery | 13 October 2014 at 03:20 PM

Told you we were pretty much in lockstep on foreign policy! I have high hopes for overcoming your other political heresies!

[Bill Tozer]

My my,Brother Ben, the answer to one of your many questions is "no". They want to hurt us here cause we ain't converts to Islam. We must convert or die, exactly as written by the Prophet himself. This is not some bastardized version of Islam. It is what the Koran teaches and preaches, you infidel you. Of course you can pay a kingly ransom and not convert and not die. Money talks and raghead walks. It's the way the world turns since the oldest profession.

[Bill Tozer]

Ooooppps, my Brother Ben. Me bad, berry berry bad. I was not very PC. I should have wrote The Holy Koran, not Koran as our military and TSA personnel are now instructed to say to civilians like you. No offense meant to be directed your way. It's the Holy Koran.

To further answer your questions, I will make it short and sweet:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08

[Walt]

Maybe those pro "S" kooks should put those signs in their own yards, and property.( No balls?)
Don't bitch when the one on my bosses property gets yanked. A paving Co. isn't pro dope.

[Ben Emery]

Comrade Bill,
Why now? Why not in 1900 or after WWII when the western powers were all used up? Why now? Who funds these Jihad schools? Why don't we hold those who fund the Jihad schools accountable?

The politically correct version wouldn't be Holy Koran it would be Qur'an.

I say lets use the energy source that created all that fossil fuel and leave the middle east countries to work things out themselves. It seems every time we help one sect over another we alienate an ally by arming their enemies and giving them support in other ways. We have never understood the middle east, don't understand their religion and definitely don't understand their culture. So why on earth do we think we can intervene without screwing things up even more? Why does the US think it has the authority to do such actions in the first place?

[Bill Tozer]

Brother Ben. That we agree on. I would love it if we could shake the Middle East dust off our shoes, then take off our shoes at throw it at them in a kinda Islamic middle finger cultural gesture. That would nice but it ain't gonna happen.

Yeah, we arm one side and the next month or two, they are pointing their new toys at us. I think President Obama is naive to think there are any moderates in the Arab countries we can play nice with....at least in today's World. What are we going to do with that mess besides wash our hands of the whole matter? No need to bomb them back to the Stone Age cause they are heading there all on their own and in record time.
So, we side with Syria to fight ISIS? We got rid of Saddam and the country imploded. At least Saddam was just a street thug who walked up to the former President and shot him in the head point blank. And the former President was driving a station wagon of all things. At least Saddam was a secularists and the Middle East seems to love their strongmen. We helped dispose of Col. Kadafy and that country is worse off than ever.

But, this IsIs thang is a whole new playground. It's an idea we are fighting now. The idea that a unified Muslin Region without borders will recapture its former glory and spread throughout the entire region and beyond (much much beyond) to have a one world authoritarian government run by Shira law. It's an idea that must tickle every Muslim's imagination whether they voice it or not, whether they support or oppose ISIS. They have one big insecurity chip on their shoulders.
Brother Ben, I know you oppose the tenets of Sharia Law; the codifying of making women permanent 2nd class citizens, the trampling of human rights, the legal taking of slaves and 9 year old wives, etc, not to mention their gawd awful goat and camel porn. But, despite your beliefs and fighting for Justice, fairness, world peace, goodwill to mankind, and helping the less fortunate, you are the enemy to them. They don't give a rat's ass about your good intentions and they could care less about your loved ones. You are The Great Satan to them. Not the US government, but you and me and any non convert that reads this. And they will coming after your family to kill them.
It's an East versus West thang. We have our ideas and ideals which makes us the enemy, the Great Satan with its blasphemy of democracy ways. Neither the twain shall met. We can leave and postpone the bloodshed for awhile, but we are fighting an Islamic idea. How do you fight an idea? What, say we are not The Great Satan? Them ragheads will be coming alright unless the Free World knocks them down first. Their idea we are fighting is "infidel, surrender or die." More than just shaking their dust off our shoes.

It's late and almost my beddy-bye time. Hope you enjoyed my nighty-night bedtime story. Here is something else for you to chew on, Brother Ben:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qnMaroAlfvI

[Gregory]

Ben and Tozer both apparently missed the message that, with technology improvements, the US is on the cusp of actually producing a surplus of fossil fuels and that the middle east share is now down to about 19% of a much smaller net importation... and that's with the Feds slow walking development of energy development on Federal leaseholds.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTNTUS2&f=M

Ben, you need a sense of proportion... "In the twelve months through July 2014, utility scale solar power generated 14.84 million megawatt-hours, 0.36% of total US electricity".

1/300 of the total. Double solar capacity and you're up to 1/150. Woo-woo. And you're never going to get solar cells that operate at night or be very productive in the dead of winter.

[Bill tozer]

What the Sam Hill is going on? First birds attacking drones. That I can understand cause of all the wind turbines that have turned into bird Shedders and those solar mirrors in the desert that have fried many of our fowl feathered friends. An act of revenge if you will.
But now even Greenpeace is under attack by our friends under the deep blue sea. Another act of revenge? Are all the little critters really our furry or furless friends? Who is the real enemy here?
http://www.cnet.com/news/jumbo-squid-attacks-greenpeace-submarine/#ftag=YHF65cbda0

[Ben Emery]

Bill,
Again Why Islam? The country my brother lives is run by a tyrant but no intervention. Genocide happening in Darfur but no intervention. Atrocities on huge levels are happening in Sudan but we are absent. Why?

Our government or really the Democratic and Republican leadership and then by default the entire political parties and government are controlled by special interests who have very strange business partners in Saudi Arabia, United Emirates, Iran, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, ect... Those business relationships are the very reason why we interfere in the middle east. These fascistic relationships have caused the US to support brutal regimes that gain huge amounts of wealth while keeping the people poor. It is these conditions that cause average people who are Muslim but not radical to turn to the Jihad schools because those who run the schools will give food, shelter, transportation, and money to their families. This is how terrorist are created not Islam. Our policies in the interests of big industry help create the conditions that promote terrorism. All of these things are connected and is one of the reasons why I am so opposed for large industry to be able to fund D's and R's to the point that they control our government that has no mention of political parties in its founding document. We have had a fascist/ corporatist state for the last 25 years at least. The liberals in congress won't fight the system but rather advocate for more food stamps, welfare, unemployment, health care for the former middle class and the working poor. These are all symptoms of a our blue collar manufacturing leaving the country and a government that actually has perfected Orwell's doublespeak. Large corporations have never seen profits so high, executives have never seen compensation so high, and our government is controlled by easy big money perpetuating the problem of no representation of you or I in DC or Sacramento.

[Bill tozer]

You are correct, my Brother Ben, when you point out that not every single Muslin country has joined the jihadists movement nor have we invaded them. Indonesia does not seem to seek to dominate the world, but Osama tee shirts sell like hot cakes there. Iran does not want to invade other countries, but they don't need to. They just control other countries like Lebanon, the Syrian government, Hamas, and other proxy states. We don't invade Iran either, maybe cause they are Persians not Ahab the Arabs, or maybe because Russia is their largest trading partner.
We have military bases in Saudi Arabia so we play nice with them, even though the Saudis fund most of the most radical schools. We don't invade every Muslim country cause many like where your bro resides see ISIS as a threat to their control on power and a threat to their Sheikdom dictatorships. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

You laid out why the disenchanted and disenfranchised become terrorists. The masses are taught radicalism in the schools, are given food, shelter, and money.....Hey wait just one cotton pickin second Brother Ben!! That is exactly what the libholes are doing here. Teach them radical nonsense in schools and give them free stuff. You just summed up the Left to a tee. Ben, are you becoming a terrorist?? Careful my Brother. It's a slippery slope you are embarking on.

[Ben Emery]

Bill,
Very insightful, I guarantee you I am on a number of terror lists since peace and environmental groups are considered terrorist threat in the US today. Also I used the term "revolution" in my first public comment of our campaign in 2010. What I described is exactly how Hamas works in Palestine, Communists worked in the countries they got a foothold in, how Jesus worked when looking for converts, ect... from the bottom up. We are in this together, or one of George's favorite terms "collectivism". The way fascism or right wing works is the opposite, from the top down. Join our club and you will be taken care of because we control things don't join and you will be crushed.

I cannot speak for any organized religion since I don't really trust or believe in any large institutions, including government. I was raised in the Catholic Church along with Catechism so I have a good understanding of Christianity from a Catholic point of view. For the record I don't subscribe to that particular sect of Christianity for the reasons mentioned before. I believe all religions are telling their stories to the universal truths but with the downfall of many of them claiming their institutional version is the correct one.

Here is a man much more qualified than I addressing your position on Islam. Take 15 minutes and listen to what he has to say.
I have seen this video clip titled a couple different ways.

Mehdi Hasan Islam Is A Peaceful Religion Oxford Union
also
Islam a Religion of Violence Oxford Union
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfiHHuO_-P0

[George Rebane]

BenE 1042am - "fascism or right wing" illustrates you don't understand that fascism is yet another form of collectivism which always works from top down because the individual derives his worth only from belonging to a specific collective. Identifying the American right as holding any of the tenets of fascism is utterly false since we adhere to exactly the opposite ideals that celebrate individualism, freedom, and enterprise, most succinctly summarized by the Bastiat Triangle and enshrined in our founding documents.

But making the accusation as you do is a great illustration of the Left's long-ensconced tactic of accusing the opposition of the exact tenets that you are trying to hide - another implementation of Saul Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals'. Fascists do not believe in limited government, a prudent fisc, and minimal regulations - all countered by collectivists of the Left.

I have yet to see any of you pick up my gauntlet and offer your own socio-political credo for all to see. I will gladly publish it, and then we can compare notes and actions.

Re Mehdi Hasan - His words would ring true were the claimed moderate millions of Muslims in Europe assimilating with the cultures into which they immigrated, instead of remaining in insular communities and demanding that their host countries bend to their twisted views of how society should be structured. The 'golden age of Islam' was real yet extremely brief, and the Indians claim co-invention of both algebra and the notion of algorithm that was literally the only celebrated issue from that golden age.

[Ben Emery]

George,
Sorry big guy, it is your inability to understand the difference a government of and for the people vs. a government of and for big business. A government that is intertwined with the interests of the people is a left wing style government. A government that is intertwined with corporate/ big business interests is a right wing style of government. Just because you falsely believe that a true free market, which cannot exist in reality, would be absent of government doesn't mean it is true. In fact the market itself would become the government through the inevitable monopolistic nature of capitalism. We in essence would become a series of 21st century version company towns across America via strip malls. This has slowly been happening since the Reagan Revolution. Go into any town larger than 50,000 people, hell just look at Grass Valley Brunswick Basin. Safeway, McDonalds, Burger King, Staples, Wells Fargo, BofA, CVS, Walgreens, RiteAid, Shell, Quizno's, Starbucks, True Value, and proposed Target and Olive Garden coming soon. I bet you would like to see a Home Depot and a Walmart come to town. Literally this could be any town in America and there is nothing that would indicate that it is Grass Valley in this specific zone/ district. This is why we have become a fascist/ corporatist state that is increasing turning into a surveillance state through private sector spying for the government. That is only one example of many where our government has been captured by big business interests. Monied special interest have taken control of the two parties that are our only choices to run our government. This is why neither party will allow an expansion of ideas and democracy they are actually limiting the ideas and the participation of the people.

[fish]

Posted by: Ben Emery | 15 October 2014 at 11:51 AM

...and a pony!

[Ben Emery]

George,
A simple question for you

Can you really not see the difference between the style of governments we had from 1932-1972 and 1972-2012?

FDR vs Reagan style of governments.

FDR style brought us representation of the people over big business. Strong oversight of big industry, especially the financial sector. This didn't mean Goldman Sachs, General Electric, or General Motors didn't exist but the existed within the boundaries that benefit society as a whole. This style of government created the largest middle class and standard of living in world history. Top Marginal Tax Rates in 90%. Until Reagan Revolution happened our national debt was less around 1 trillion, not bad for a nation and economy as large of the US and fought two world wars, Korea, and decades in Vietnam. The funny part of the Tea Party is when asked "to what time frame do you want to take us back?" their answer 9 times out of 10 is the middle of this era.

Reagan style government increased that debt to $4 trillion in 8 years and now has reached $16 trillion. We have stayed on Reagan pace with our national debt and size/ scope increasing of the federal government of intertwining big business/ government. Yes, Obama administration is a Third Way or Corporate Democrat. Also Reagan dramatically increased the size of the Federal government as did George W Bush/ Obama administrations. Decreased Top Marginal Tax Rates down into 28% along with tons of tax loopholes for big business. Big business has never been as profitable, middle class hasn't been so small since the great depression with the loss of living waged blue collar manufacturing jobs, standard of living is decreasing, private debt has never been higher on average for Americans, government has never been so intrusive and intertwined with big business, and social programs haven't been so important to so many Americans since the last time we had a Reagan style of governance during the Roaring Twenties. These programs are actually subsides for big business by covering food and health care among other things for the working poor.

[fish]

Careful George.....I see plenty of "No True Scotsman" arguments flying towards you in the very near future.

[George Rebane]

BenE 1232pm - On these pages we have dissected the differences and circled these barns more times than I can count. The fundamental difference between us is that we live in separate worlds with different histories and widely diverse sets of human and cultural values. Since none of you on the Left want to divulge your basic beliefs, which include social utilities, we wind up with 'yes it was - no it wasn't' discussions that lead nowhere. If you insist on abiding in the collectivist fear of their real ends being prematurely discovered, then at least take my published credo and pick it apart, tenet by tenet.