Sandbox - 31jan15

[OK people, I'm disappointed in you.  Here I posted a piece on what's happening in Greece that will have significant fallout on all of us in America, and no one gave a big rat's ass.  Are you guys pulling in your horns and want RR to revert to a local issues mudball fight?  Ain't gonna happen.  You've shown the moxie and the intellectual bandwidth to handle geo-strategic issues in the past.  Don't quit now.  I want to see some broadband capacity out of this bunch to handle stuff that really matters.  There are other blogs that do wine shop opening scooplets and mudball slinging at opposite ideologies in these foothills, let's keep this forum a bit above that fray.  Capice?]

Comments

[fish]

Okay!

I hope Greece stiffs the ECB and the European Union (with their idiot banker enablers) collapses into rubble.

But hey......that's just one man opinion.

[George Rebane]

fish 31jan15 - so do I. This will bring back reality into the game as the EU continues to absorb the financial peccadillos of Italy, Spain, Belgium, and Ireland. IMHO it is past time to figure out how the global community can stabilize through a structured membership of tens of peacefully competing sovereign nation states. Competing cultures and economic systems are important. Global government is anathema to the human spirit. And global cooperation is necessary only for humanity-encompassing endeavors like saving the planet from pandemics, an asteroid strike, or Man going to the stars.

[Keen Observer]

Just recently the Spanish equivalent of Syriza began to build political momentum using a similar anti-austerity platform. As of the last poll, it would seem that their message holds the majority of ears amongst the people of Spain. The compound of a Greek and Spanish default would be disastrous for the EU and global financial markets, but I digress... The main issue of the EU and ECB was the lack of central authority concerning financial policy. Thus the lackadaisical and freeloading Greek society enjoyed retirement and social benefits that were far more generous than their thrifty German counterparts. What good is it for the ECB to control the printing of money if each individual nation can still determine how careless they would be with their funds?

I am with Fish on this one, perhaps its best to let the house of debt-cards fall over...maybe only then will future policy makers see the error of their ways when everything is rebuilt from shambles. My hope is limited though, as many of the same economic policies that Stalin utilized to bolster the USSR (albeit with totalitarian enforcement) are the same sales pitches found in the ambiguous progressive doctrine that poisons our land.

[Todd Juvinall]

I just found out today from a friend in a local business a real gem. Since California has been late on paying back its debts to the Feds, the IRS requires a percentage of the payroll be added to the bottom line of the returns to pay their "share" of the state's debt! This particular biz has to pay over $3,000 this quarter! So what the hell is that?

I also did a article on the Cheryl Cook diatribe and as usual, the libs attack me personally. Too funny!

http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2015/01/cheryl-cook-another-liberal-whiner-gets.html

[George Rebane]

KeenO 456pm - That is the exact weakness of the EU and its haphazardly overlayed eurozone. The RR position has been to let it crash and burn sooner than later. It is not a sustainable structure of governance nor co-operative economy.

[fish]

Since California has been late on paying back its debts to the Feds, the IRS requires a percentage of the payroll be added to the bottom line of the returns to pay their "share" of the state's debt!

But I thought that Californias finances were the envy of the nation.......rainy day fund....free "Bullet Train"?

Surely you jest Todd.....California is the exemplar of fiscal rectitude!

[Bill Tozer]

What a bunch of hooey. They are going to raise gas taxes for projects unrelated to roads and bridges again. Now, Obama is spouting thesame tried and true mantra. 19% additional taxes on companies with foreign investments to "build roads and bridges."

When President Ronald Regean raised gas taxes, 100% of the monies went to roads and bridges. Nowadays, only 41% goes to roads and bridges. The rest goes to mass transit (which never is sustainable on its own outside the Joe Biden train to Delaware) and hiking paths and bike trails and all sorts of stuff, including renovating historical districts.
At lest here in California, we all know that the new state gas taxes will not fill one pothole and straighten one crooked lane. It's all going to the Train to the Boondoggle and low income housing. Then the Feds will jump in for a federal gas hike tax. By the time all this is settled, gas prices will shoot up again as more frackers sit on the sidelines because who is going to sell oil at 40 bucks a barrel that cost 70 bucks to extract? I say by 2016 oil will return to 80-100 bucks a barrel, plus new State and Federal gas hikes....er....taxes.
Funny how the users of mass transit don't pay the gas taxes but we sure pay for them.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-seeks-19-global-minimum-015647698.html

[Account Deleted]

"and no one gave a big rat's ass"
Actually fish and I did post about the Greeks back in the Scattershots of the 25th.
Here's a few more observations:
If they do default, don't think for a second anyone will learn anything from the experience. This sort of nonsense has been going on for eons. Countries that go into huge debt in order to pay for citizen ordered goodies that their GDP can't support in real time. It's easy to blame the politicians alone, but they're all to blame.
"This will bring back reality into the game as the EU continues to absorb the financial peccadillos of Italy, Spain, Belgium, and Ireland."
Possibly, but what history can you point to that would offer that hope? Anyone with a brain knows you can't borrow your way into prosperity - if they haven't got any sense in the first place, what lessons do you think they will learn? It will be the usual blame game. The bankers, the Jews, the rich - anyone but the fools that gobbled up cheap money with no clue as to how to repay.
Everything happening now has already happened before. Our founding fathers knew perfectly well what happens when a country doesn't have sound currency. And they knew what happens when the citizens start voting them selves 'gifts'.
The best we can hope for now is a close game tomorrow in Glendale.
I have a lot of snacks lined up, and if the game turns blow out early, it just isn't as much fun.

[George Rebane]

ScottO 805pm - what hope was I offering other than they face the reality of bankruptcy sooner than later? Your defenses are good, but they are erected on hills not attacked, at least not here.

[Russ Steele]

The new government of Greece is just thinking about the little people when it decides to shut down a major chunk of it's economy. Tourism accounts for 15-20% of GDP.

When a new Greek activist government — under pressure to look like it’s doing something — declares that they believe all-inclusive resorts are bad because tourists stay on property instead of benefiting the local town economies nearby but promise they’re only talking theoretically and you should trust them that they aren’t going to do anything about it… you should trust them as much as you do that they’ll repay all of their bonds in full.

I wonder if they have thought this decision through, as it is tourist from the UK and Germany that prefer the all inclusive vacations, and they are the only ones in the EU that have any money to spend.

Greeks's batshit crazy leaders can do serious harm to the whole country as they attempt to tranform the country's economy so it is consistent with their communist philosophy. I wonder if the Greeks catch this trasformation thing from Obama?

[Account Deleted]

I guess the line that brought on that thought was: "This will bring back reality into the game"
Reality is with us always. It seems by the quote above, that you think there will be some sort of clarity or wisdom that was missing. To me, it's like warning someone not to jump off a cliff. They ignore the obvious danger and jump. And you then state - "This will bring back reality into the game". The reality of their death due to leaping off a cliff was present from the start.
As I previously posted, once things start to fall apart in Greece, there won't be any reality. The left will summon up the usual hob goblins of blame that have nothing to do with reality.
Humans usually don't like reality. They seem to have avoided it when ever and where ever they can through the ages. Modern thought and technology has 'evolved' to where the masses can exist in a state of unreality most of the time if they desire. And the leaders of those masses play along to the point at which they start to believe they can make the unreal, real. I would love to know just how many of the major players of the world really think they can make all of this funny money, debt and financial ball juggling work out in the end. And how many know darn well it's all going to go bad in some way.

[Brad C.]

Greece needs to sell itself off. Sell the islands to the likes of Branson, Ellison, Russian oligarchs, et al. Next, sell the east coast to Russia and the west coast to the US for naval bases.
Done and done.

[Bill Tozer]

Brad C, excellent idea. I always figured Germany or some group would buy Greece and turn it into a museum or resort.
It is against the law in many parts of the U.S. to commit suicide. Is it against international law for a country to commit suicide? If so, good luck collecting the fine.

[Russ Steele]

Merk;el, no debt haircut!

BERLIN (AP) — German Chancellor Angela Merkel has underlined the refusal of Greece's European creditors to consider forgiving part of the debt-ridden country's rescue loans, though she stressed in an interview published Saturday that Berlin's aim is to keep Greece in the eurozone.

Greece's new government insists it will honor pre-election promises to seek a cut on the country's rescue debt and scrap painful budget measures that were demanded in exchange for the loans.

Merkel said in an interview with the daily Berliner Morgenpost that Europe will continue showing solidarity with Greece and other nations hit by Europe's debt crisis "if these countries undertake their own reform and saving efforts," and fended off a question about the new Greek government's moves to reverse reforms and rehire suspended workers.

"We — Germany and the other European partners — will now wait and see what concept the new Greek government comes to us with," she was quoted as saying. She was clear, however, about prospects of a debt cut.

Athens already was forgiven billions of euros by private creditors, Merkel said. "I don't see a further debt haircut."

[Bill Tozer]

Ah, a look at Greece before the recent elections. Campaign promises are easy and cost free.

http://www.tovima.gr/en/article/?aid=667748

However, all is not lost. More green sprouts. Unemployment fell in Greece in October before the elections. The Recovery Tour is being planned!

http://www.tovima.gr/en/article/?aid=672278

[George Rebane]

ScottO 1032pm - "Reality is with us always." Unfortunately, that is not true. Humans have known for millennia that perceived reality is a mental artifact that may be experienced individually or in groups (vast literature on this, for a good read see Julian Jaynes' work). And that perceived reality too often add odds with the existential reality that others experience, and often vainly try to point out to the delusional(s). Greece, as a nation-state, is in such a delusional state because they have yet to hit bottom.

A closer to home example is the delusional state of progressives when they launch unsustainable (let alone dysfunctional) social programs like Obamacare. We recall that an unsustainable social program is one which year after year continues to eat up a larger fraction of a country's GDP - reason dictates that this cannot go on, and finally reality sets in and ends or radically transforms it. But until that happens, all the progressives point the critics to their 'reality' that still there is no crisis so everything must be OK, and the program is sound. (Examples of such thinking abound in RR comment streams.)

Greece's reality may set in under many guises. History teaches one common one that includes blood in the gutters, and the arrival of 'the man on a white horse'. To the relief of all, that man will take the reins of government and establish an autocracy under the guise of 'we must all now sacrifice our selfish aims, pull together, and work for the common good' before our lives again improve. And what will be the sacrifice demanded? It is always the relinquishing of the Bastiat Triangle of rights - liberty, property, and security in your person. (see top right column for expanded explanation)

For Greece, reality will be no different, and becoming such a state is their real negotiating position with the EU which does not want to see the reprise of illiberal states in Europe that have caused everyone so much grief over the centuries. My own prediction, yet to be picked up by anyone, includes a threatened military deal with the Russians.

[Account Deleted]

George - we'll have to agree to disagree. When Greece hits bottom, the delusional state will continue. IMO. The proles will be told (and will want to believe) that "them" are now punishing Greece for daring to stand up and be free.
I totally agree with you on the subject of Greek real estate. The previous post about selling off some of their land for cash is amusing, but naval and air stations pay off the best. Ask Fidel.

[fish]

.... but naval and air stations pay off the best.

Yeah.....and they keep paying.....at least until the US finally becomes Greece writ large.

Military installations on foreign soil also serves to employ some of the locals....something I'm sure the Greeks wouldn't mind at this point.

[Joe Koyote]

And global cooperation is necessary only for humanity-encompassing endeavors like saving the planet from pandemics, an asteroid strike, or Man going to the stars. --

A vast majority of earthlings would also add climate change to this list of global humanity-encompassing endeavors. A recent study found that climate deniers tend to be old white men who believe in "free market" capitalism and individualism. Sound familiar? The study also suggested that the reason for these denial beliefs (in the face of overwhelming peer reviewed scientific evidence to the contrary) is that to recognize climate change (human based) is to reject the cause, global corporate free market capitalism; and to do that would require a restructuring of one's belief system, a near impossibility.

[Russ Steele]

JoeK@10:26

You wrote: "The study also suggested that the reason for these denial beliefs (in the face of overwhelming peer reviewed scientific evidence to the contrary). . ."

Can you please cite ten of the "overwhelming peer reviewed scientific evidence" so we can take a look at to see the peers were really independent reviewers and not pals of the study authors. We found out during climategate that much of the anthropogenic global warming papers were pal reviewed and not peer reviewed. In addition, many of the AGW papers have been subjected to extensive independent reviews, where the reviewer were unable to replicate the results from the data, or the data was missing, the authors refusing to give it up for analysis. So, we may discover that your "overwhelming peer reviewed"papers that you claim as evidence is nothing but some sham science generated by a climate change religious cult.

If you cannot cite ten papers, then cite your top five. We can start there. As your liberal comrade is prone to say, the Internet has changed the way we communicate. Now back to the real subject of this thread.

[fish]

A recent study found that climate deniers tend to be old white men who believe in "free market" capitalism and individualism.

Indeed! There is nothing more beneficial to the left than a huge mass of slow witted, easily swayed dullards!

Way to join the herd Joe!

PS: As Russ mentioned "peer reviewed" doesn't mean now nearly what it once did! Google peer review fraud, make some popcorn and prepare to be entertained! I recommend that you start with the Sokal hoax.

[George Rebane]

re JoeK 1026am - Please note that Mr Koyote totally ignored the significant back peddaling and conditional codicils that the latest IPCC report contained as to the certitude of global warming's magnitude, timing, and impact. The tactic of the true believers continues to be Al Gore's maxim - 'The debate is over.' - something that only 'faith-based science' has ever countenanced. More here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2014/03/global-warming-the-latest-official-update.html

[Account Deleted]

"global corporate free market capitalism"
Where the heck is that? Sorry - it doesn't exist. The commie countries are where you find the overwhelming ecological catastrophes. Ever hear of the Aral Sea? Eastern Germany was one big sewage dumping pit when the West took over. A clean environment needs lots of capital. And that will be another tact for the new Greek govt. They'll beg money off of the IMF and the US on the pretext of needing to become 'green'.
My belief system is based on reality, not the NYTs and their hysteria about the climate. Why doesn't Joe the K tell us again about 'the end of snow' as forecast by 'peer reviewed science'? It really sucks when reality doesn't follow the hysteria script.

[Walt]

JoeK is living proof that AGW is nothing more than a half backed religion.
Al Gore is pretty much the chief ECOvangelist with his new age collection plate passing.
( Gov grants, and rich Hollywood suckers.. And of course the likes of Joe.)

Hay Joe.. An Earth history question for ya'. ,, 10 thousand years ago, what was the sea level? ( That was last week in geologic time)
The way things are headed, the next ice age may be a'come'n. Ready for that?
The record cold around the globe is beating out the record warming.
Now your ECO excuse factory is blaming the elevated volcanic activity around the world on human activity (AGW)
Can your clan get any loonier?

[Walt]

Required reading for JoeK. Optional for everyone else.
It shows where Joe derives his BS, and exposes just how the "consensus" deck was stacked.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303480304579578462813553136

This is what Wile E. is hanging his fur on.
"One frequently cited source for the consensus is a 2004 opinion essay published in Science magazine by Naomi Oreskes, a science historian now at Harvard. She claimed to have examined abstracts of 928 articles published in scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and found that 75% supported the view that human activities are responsible for most of the observed warming over the previous 50 years while none directly dissented."

And from another book cooker,
"Another widely cited source for the consensus view is a 2009 article in "Eos, Transactions American Geophysical Union" by Maggie Kendall Zimmerman, a student at the University of Illinois, and her master's thesis adviser Peter Doran. It reported the results of a two-question online survey of selected scientists. Mr. Doran and Ms. Zimmerman claimed "97 percent of climate scientists agree" that global temperatures have risen and that humans are a significant contributing factor."

Yup, a two question "survey", of cherry picked "true believers".

[George Rebane]

Walt 309pm - Please note that JoeK and his fellow travelers were already informed of this particular reference about a year ago. This is not a new debate, but merely circling the barn with no indication that anything of this nature penetrates people afflicted with cranial densititis as Mr Koyote's 1026am clearly demonstrates. All they can do is sing another refrain from the Climate Change Consensus Chorale.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2014/05/journalisms-carpet-bombing-of-americas-public-consciousness.html

[Russ Steele]

Eurozone alarm grows over Greek bailout brinkmanship

Eurozone officials are increasingly worried that Greece’s brinkmanship over its bailout will plunge the country into financial chaos after its finance minister said on Sunday that it would take up to four months to agree a “new contract” with creditors.

Yanis Varoufakis, Greece’s newly appointed finance minister, said Athens would reject any further loans under its international rescue plan, despite Greece’s €172bn bailout expiring at the end of the month. He also said he expected the European Central Bank to prop up the country’s weakened banking system until a longer-term settlement could be reached.

More at the Financial Times HERE.

[Terry Burns]

More interesting comments Mr. Rebane.....

One of the most interesting things that I have seen is that the most successful educated people in the last 30 years always surround themselves with capable creative people that know their ass from a hole in the ground.

What give here? It seems that you're bucking this trend. I'm literally amazed that some of these people can go pee without zipping up their private parts in the zipper and they want to tell us how bad things are?

The stock market is at an all time high, the unemployment rate is dropping (yes even Walt, our local Einstein can find work!), All of you keep screaming Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi....!!!, the financial crisis should have been followed by a drastic crackdown on Wall Street abuses, and it wasn't. No important figures have gone to jail, bad banks and other financial institutions, from Citigroup to Goldman, were bailed out with few strings attached and they should have gone the way of the doo-doo bird, but Republican's would have never allowed that to happen, and there has been nothing like the wholesale restructuring and reining in of finance that took place in the 1930's. Obama deserves blame for the disappointing response and why people are not in jail as this cost everyone of us, but I hear nothing about the money that everyone of you ended up having to pay, as you got your "clear heads" so deep in the political rhetoric fog you can't see 10 feet..

If there is anything to bitch about, it was his Treasury secretary and his attorney general who chose to treat finance with kid gloves.

I really want to know why the golden boy Mitt just jumped ship after the meeting with the financiers of the next election....

If you think that Jeb Bush has a chance you must also thing that the Stay=Puff Marshmallow man is real.

[Bill Tozer]

Ms. Burns, thank you for sharing. Interesting points you brought to Dr. Rebane's attention. If laws were broken, then the pokey awaits the law breakers. I believe the reason why those Wall Street types are not sitting in the Federal Country Club lockup is because legally no laws were broken. The New York State, Federal, and SEC prosecutors came and went away empty handed. Maybe they could be charged under civil rights violations of your peace of mind.

"If you think that Jeb Bush has a chance you must also thing that the Stay=Puff Marshmallow man is real."

Don't know if Jeb has a prayer or not, but the Stay=Puff Marshmallow man definitely is real. Easy to spot as well. He is the one donned in purple garb. He is so cute and adorable when he pouts. Moderates like Jeb is not what the last election was about. Jeb will have millions of our center right country stay home in November, 2016.

[Account Deleted]

Ah - Terry, pssst - we're talking here about Greece.
Try to keep up. We have specialists that can help you with your reading skills if needed.
The stock market is pumped up with printed money and the labor participation rate with full time jobs is sinking. California just moved the needle from 7.2% to 7% on the strength of 700 net jobs gained.
That's less than a rounding error. And the debt and unfunded govt liabilities continues to grow. Record number of Americans on food stamps. And Terry thinks we're doing swell.

[Walt]

Uhhh,,, Mr. "B".. I am far from "gainfully" employed. I have yet to see a 40 hr. work week, let alone a 30. A day here or there is about it. Nice try.
The stock market is only up because of government "welfare". Again.. Nice try.
Main St. on the other hand is on life support without any gov. help. Wadges are stagnant,
more people than ever are NOT working, and more people than ever are on the dole. ( many not by choice)
That's real world.
Anyone from the Right that runs for President is better than "O", or anyone the Left trots out. Hillary? LOL. Izzy Warren? Now there is a confirmed fibber. Hay!,, Can I get some special benefits based on "family lore" like she did? Hell. Indians don't even recognize her claim.

[Bill Tozer]

Personally. I am relieved Mitt bailed out. He is a nice guy, the kind of guy who would be at a neighbor's doorstep if the neighbor's wife got sick, with Ann Roomney bringing over a casserole to help and babysit the kids.. That is one of Mitt's problems. He is a nice guy and being aggressive and going for the throat ain't in his nature. He tithes 10% of his wealth religiously to his church. As a person he is bright, capable, and ethical. But not a fighter. Mitt is not the needed shark to swim in the fish eat fish political realm.

The second problem with Mitt is he tested the waters and found his support lukewarm. Mitt is just too moderate. Sharp as a tack on foreign affairs, but too Plain Jane, too Polly Purebred for most. Mitt is just too moderate milk toast for most on the Always Right.

You can bet your last dollar that Mitt sat down with Ann and had a long conservation. The discussion ended with both agreeing it is better for Mitt Romney to step aside.

Did liked how he called out Russia as the next threat in the debates while Obama just ridiculed him saying the Cold War is over. Over, done, gone, put a fork in it. Old school thinking. Of course Mitt did not respond, even though he knew more about what is going on in the real world than the Community Organizer shakedown artist will ever know. See, Mitt is just too nice of a guy and respectful to wipe that smirk off Obama's face.

[Bill Tozer]

Ms. Burns, I believe you have fired the first salvo of the 2016 elections. Income Ineuality will be the rallying cry of the Left, the Marxists, and our own Brother Ben. You can't turn a page or click any news website without those two words Income Inequality jumping off the page at you. "II" is the new buzz word and Lizzy Borden....er...Lizzy Warren is gaining traction on that sole issue. John Edward's "Two Americas" was gaining momentum until the National Inquirer looked behind the curtail and finally got something right.

The above paragraph is to point out that because of class warfare spouted daily from the Oval Office, a rich person is now a dirty word, at least if that person is not a Leftist comrade or lacks the Marxist belief system. Mitt Romney is a 1%er, thus he is Satan incarnate, out of touch, uncaring, unable to feel your pain, greedy, and selfish. In short, Mitt Romney is The Evil One. He was wise to not put his friends and family and everyone he has ever known through guilt by association with The Evil One media frenzy.
The Right needs to nominate some poor conman with no experience outside of academia or some non-profit. It worked fine for Obama and is working fine for Lizzy Warren. The Right needs some poor schlock to lead the Free World. Mitt is too old school with his gawd awful character and morals. He needs to get with the times.

[Russ Steele]

Tyler Cowen, writing at the Marginal Revolution, I added the highlights to the text.

On Thursday, Russia announced that it would consider extending financial aid to Greece if the latter asked.

There is more here, of interest throughout, though not fundamentally surprising. Greece is seeking to auction its EU veto between the EU and Russia. And over the weekend Chris Calomiris told us that Tsipras is a longstanding admirer of Fidel Castro, and furthermore he named his youngest son “Ernesto” after [Ernesto] Che Guevara. He also has voiced his opposition to Nato in the past.
As I’ve said, these are the Not Very Serious People, enough to make you want to have the Very Serious People back. As Garett Jones has noted, Greece needs its Thatcheropoulous — strong, credible, pro-debt renegotiation, pro-capitalism, anti-corruption, pro-tax fairness, and pro-foreign investment. People, that is not what we are getting.

The best chance scenario is that this is all an elaborate bluff for a pivot toward sensible reform. The bluff I can see, the sensible reform sorry no. Is a Thatcheropoulous possible when one can read headlines such as “Death threats forced me to quit my job, says Greece’s top tax man“? How many of the cultural preconditions of successful reform are present in Greece right now?

- See more at: http://marginalrevolution.com/#sthash.DD9ULqTA.dpuf

[Joe Koyote]

13 of the last 15 years, including 2014, were the hottest on record. The odds of this not being human caused climate change are 27 million to one. Your comments fit the mold exactly.

Russ: list 10 studies that were NOT produced by Heritage, Freedom works, any Rupert Murdoch publication, or some other totally biased, oil company and billionaire funded think tank that supports your denial beliefs. Or if you can't do that, list one.

Remember that tobacco isn't related to cancer, just ask the tobacco industry. Climate change isn't related to carbon combustion, just ask the fossil fuel industry, they will surely give you the straight scoop. After all, they have nothing to lose by telling the truth.

Just look at the flimsy arguments in your defense: peer review is flawed, the UN backed off on some issues, climate change is "sham science generated by a climate change religious cult," George quotes himself as a source, yada yada yada. To quote Todd, "too funny."

Old white men, who believe in free market capitalism, and individualism. Very descriptive of the RR readership. The profile is right on the money.

[Todd Juvinall]

Hottest where? Would that be Canada and back east today? Jeeze, you people are too much. Cold temps are global warming, ice caps are AGW, sea ice increases are AGW. Do you libs grant seeking leeches realize how stupid you all look?

[Joe Koyote]

A study of the "denial" books published since the 1990's, found that 87% of the non-self published books, and 72% of all denial books were linked to right wing think tanks that either financed the "research", published the books, or both. Contrast that with the thousands of independent scientists from 195 different countries whom you all claim are colluding in this great hoax. Some famous adman once said "you can fool all of the people all the time if you have the right message and a big enough budget." Have a nice day!

[Todd Juvinall]

Your ilk thought Galileo was a apostate too. Sorry, you just believe in a hoax.

[George Rebane]

Re JoeK’s 840pm – Here we have the iconic response of ‘The debate is over’ religious Left. We first note that they do not answer or even recognize responses to their previously preposterous arguments – it’s as if they were talking to the Grand Canyon from a lonely overlook. For them the debate truly is over, because it actually never began.

The data and information that now pours in from truly scientific studies (these are the ones that are not funded for the purpose of reaching politically prescribed conclusions) is getting difficult to track. It is reported regularly in the non-lamestream media. As an example of this, consider today’s (2feb15) WSJ piece – ‘The Alarming Thing About Climate Alarmism’ – by Bjorn Lomborg. Lomborg is an internationally recognized and widely published scientist who is the director of the Copenhagen Consensus Center and a former director of the Environmental Assessment Institute in Copenhagen. He writes, “Exaggerated, worst-case claims result in bad policy and they ignore a wealth of encouraging data.” Unfortunately the details of the article are beyond the ken of most progressives, but they summarize the compelling arguments that point to an international hysteria that has reached mob proportions as innumerate liberals gather in town squares with their torches and pitchforks looking for “climate deniers”.

The claim that somehow scientific skepticism of such hysteria is limited to an aged demographic is unfounded and most interesting. But it may have some statistical bias since it does take some years to acquire wisdom that operates above the emotional hip level of the spinal cord. In any event the argument is both gratuitous and specious.

Lomborg reviews for us the significant errors that even the IPCC now admits to in both its much publicized projections and its ability to accurately model climate change. But, of course, the lamestream and its political mentors continue to ignore such results and their announcements. Mr Koyote is just an example of the local echoes of such progressive promotions across the land. We know nothing of his own qualifications to understand of what he so devoutly speaks – for example, is he even numerate?

The policies such people promote have already crossed into the insane. Consider that “alarmism has encouraged the pursuit of a one-sided climate policy of trying to cut carbon emissions by subsidizing wind farms and solar panels. Yet today, according to the International Energy Agency, only about 0.4% of global energy consumption comes from solar photovoltaics and windmills. And even with exceptionally optimistic assumptions about future deployment of wind and solar, the IEA expects that these energy forms will provide a minuscule 2.2% of the world’s energy by 2040.” Such arguments fall under an avalanche of national dumbth.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bjorn-lomborg-the-alarming-thing-about-climate-alarmism-1422832462
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2014/05/journalisms-carpet-bombing-of-americas-public-consciousness.html

[Bill Tozer]

Yep, old white men just like Curtis Walker and Terry L. Joe K, I am glad you are neither old nor white nor male. That makes you in the majority of this world's population demographics. That must get your mangina all a'twitter, We old white males in the minority on this planet simply see things differently.

You can argue that the planet is in a warming trend and I would say Okey Dokey. You can argue that this small planet has had periods of hundreds if not thousands of years when it was warmer, cooler, wetter, drier than it is now, and I would raise no eyebrows. On record? What does that mean? Since Galleo? Since Pluto? Since the origins of the predecessors of the small beginning of the Inca Empire? Since Caucasians from what is now know as France inhabited North America before the Asians became "Native Americans" here? Since most of Northern Arizona desert was covered with amber waves of grain and reeds and water as far as the eye could see?

To pharaphrase Churchill, Mr. Koyote, I am indeed mostly white and a man. Tomorrow when wake up, I will still be mostly white and a man. You, on the other hand....

[fish]

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 02 February 2015 at 08:40 AM

One would think that a man who admits to having an advanced degree in "propaganda" would be less swayed by such an obvious example! It doesn't even make any difference if you are right Joe...nothing will be done about it! Scaling back emissions in the US will be more than made up by increasing output from China, India, Brazil etc.

If you guys were serious you would be backing nuclear power....but your not!

[Bill Tozer]

I owe Joe K. a big fat apology. Sorry Mr. Koyote, you have made a valid point. I found this link which backs up what you say about Global Warming, (not the old white paleface part). Please, kind Madame, accept my heart felt apologies.

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/pb.51560645913.-2207520000.1422899428./10152783091025914/?type=3&theater

[George Rebane]

For the innumerate naïfs decrying the influence of the nation's older cohort that they expect will soon die out leaving behind a more enlightened younger cohort to rule the land, I have some news (already published many times in these pages). Today the country's 65 and older people make up over 13% of the population; by 2050 that percentage will have grown to over 20%. And as people get older, most begin to realize the follies of collectivism, and what really makes the world a worthy place to live. So better get used to it.

[Walt]

A little somth'n for JoeK. He LOVES to live in the past.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/11384287/10000-BC-It-was-much-less-stressful-than-modern-life.html

[Walt]

Where did ya' go Burns?? No wonder American workers are finding it hard to get employed.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/02/obama-quietly-adds-5-46-million-foreigners-to-economy/

[fish]

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why Apple is putting this in Arizona? Anyone......? Anyone......?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102389945

[Walt]

Well it's not Ca..

[fish]

Posted by: Walt | 02 February 2015 at 01:37 PM

On the first guess! Well done Walt!

[joe smith]

Citing Bjorn Lomborg and his CCC as "credible" is unfortunate. The CCC is a US based NGO that was established and fully funded by the Randolph Foundation, which was founded by the Koch brothers. The Randolph Foundation director is Heather Higgins who is a former WSJ editor. She is also chair of the Independent Women's Forum which is largely funded by the Koch Brother's Claude R Lambe Foundation. In 2012 Lomborg was paid $775,000.00 by the CCC. Guess where the money came from?

[George Rebane]

joes 303pm - And your point? Now you aren't sniping messengers who deliver messages you don't comprehend, are you?

[Todd Juvinall]

I am sure Joe loves the Tides Foundation. Probably the HP one as well. No bias there eh Joe?

[Walt]

How many fictitious names is this "Joe" going to show up with?
Save them for the houses of ill repute in Nev. As soon as he drives one "name" into troll status he sheds his skin and slithers back.

[Walt]

Seems Harry Reid forgot his side lost the election,, and why.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/harry-reid-senate-gop-immigration-114840.html

[Walt]

OHHH the LIBS will LOVE the latest plan to bring in revenue.
Confiscate it. ( That meas take,,, Joe)
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/02/obama-tax-plan-president-goes-all-in-on-confiscation/
But since Repubs are in the driver's seat,, that plan will go down in flames.

[fish]

“Ain’t it the truth.” For people like Barry Pruett, who mocked San Francisco values compared with Nevada County values during his unsuccessful election for clerk-recorder, it’s true!

BTW, that would have been a good “pull quote” to replace the filler text.

Since you're beating your gums about SF values again did you have any plans to provide a list and some details.....or are SF values something only the "anointed" are permitted to know?

[Don Bessee]

Did anyone notice the asa gang got their own aclu? I was disappointed to learn the asa vp failed to make the cut for the board. As expected they should be called the All Cannabis Lovers Union of Nevada City. Does anyone think they will be a benefit to Nevada City, Nevada County or an impediment to legal economic development? Given their legal team we can expect lots of motions that garner a headline and go nowhere. Just as the usual suspects always do. How will lefty jeffy deal with the inevitable clash between the asa er aah aclu and Greg Diaz? I know the County wont be bullied but we need to keep a close eye on this crew and not let them screw with our real business interests in Nevada County.

[Bill Tozer]

For those of us who remember, Dr. Rebane once penned an excellent post about the tobacco enema. A medical devise of yesterday from whose origins came the phrase "blowing smoke up one's arse." The thread of the Two Joes strangely triggered my recollection of Dr. Rebane's tobacco enema post.

As a student of primitive antiques and history, I have come to the conclusion that Blackbeard the Pirate was not only a humanitarian, he also was quite health conscious. He even offered his employees a medical plan with the best surgeons around.

http://www.newser.com/story/201809/on-blackbeards-ship-syphilis-syringe-rectal-pump.html
What puzzles me is why the confusion/uncertainty the so called "experts" have concerning purpose of the pump. The answer is plain as the nose on one's face. It was to flush out the remains of what the humanoid caused climate change folks were feeding his crew. Like the tobacco enema, it may not have helped, but it didn't hurt either.

[Todd Juvinall]

Don Bessee, I suppose the new ACLU locals will be supporting all f the bloggers since they are all about "free speech". What is your guess? Do you think they will be supporting us too? LOL!

[Todd Juvinall]

Actually, just thinking about the new ACLU here. I think they will go after Pelline since he seems to be the most adamant about shutting down free speech. I recall his positions on Western Gateway Park an others. Also, what is Pelline's position on the homosexuals and transgendered folks. Is he prejudice against them? If he is then perhaps they will take him to the woodshed? So, sometimes these things are uncontrollable and the liberals can't hack it. Since we on the right are all about free speech and Constitutional rights, then we may have a group who will fight for us?

Wouldn't that PO the local libs? LOL!

[Bill Tozer]

Fish, it amazes me you keep going over to the hard hard far left extreme Purple blog. You must have a cast iron stomach. I don't give the place the distinct pleasure of my traffic. But, to each his own. I know there exists out there in cyper space the unfornatuate Mysterious One, more commonly known as the lowly "designated reader". You must have some S&M tendencies, with a big emphasis on M. Perhaps when the designated reader cries out "No Mas", you could step in and relieve The Mysterious one of his/her agony.
Besides, as far as I can tell, that cesspool of enlightenment is full of angry white folk. Too much anger for me. Been there, done that. Nothing kills a good time like a bunch of angry hard far left extremists showing up at a civil discussion. You have a higher pain threshold than many a good fellow.

[Paul Emery]

So Romney's staying home and Pallin has been rejected.

Here's an taste of a pretty thoughtful look at the GOP Presidnedtial prospects from Bill Scher who writes for Politico. Don't respond unless you read the whole article. Since I won't vote for a Republicrat I can enjoy looking at the whole thing as some kind of sport.

"Conservative die-hards may not agree with the establishment Republicans who believe the party needs some ideological recalibration on issues like immigration. But they do seem to be getting on board with the notion that Republicans need to elevate serious presidential timber over the silly self-promoters, no matter how good they are at stirring the pot and making liberal heads explode.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/gop-establishment-114806.html#ixzz3QemMsKmY

[Bill Tozer]

Was just thinking about angry old white guys and lo and behold, Paul appears. Thank you for sharing, Mr. Emery.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 February 2015 at 09:28 PM

Don't respond unless you read the whole article.

Well okay then!

[fish]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 02 February 2015 at 09:08 PM

Yeah Toz......it confuses me too! I feel like the kid growing something unpleasant for an elementary school project....you don't really want to take the lid off and look at the fungus....but you really can't help yourself sometimes either.

[Walt]

ACLU?? Here??? As for them stomping on Jeffy's toes,, good luck. The ACLU types never
attack Progressives.

[Bill Tozer]

Well put, Mr. Fish on both your last 2 replies. No added words needed. Perfect. We both picked up on that "don't respond unless" little zinger. Hey, you ain't the boss of me. Perhaps the Royal Purple Robed One's control freak tendecies are spreading like the measles.

As far as the primary circus goes, maybe Rubio could steal the show. The Republicans could showcase the new young fresh Hispanic look of today's hip Republican party and contrast that against the aging and saging Establishment Insider Candidate Hillary Rodman Clinton.

Poor Hilary. She was standing naked in front of the mirror when Bill strolled past. She exclaimed "Bill, look at me. My stomach is sticking out my butt is sagging and my boobs are drooping. Oh, Bill, say something nice to me about my body, please, oh please."
Slick Willy paused for a second putting his hand to his chin, then joyous replied "Sugar plum, Your eyesight is still working fine!"

[MikeL]

Joe, please have a look at C3headlines.com.

[Bill Tozer]

Sharia Law on UC campuses. It's getting closer.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/hamas-on-campus/

[Russ Steele]

Local ACLU chapter formed, according Jeff Pelline's Sierra Foothills Report

This press release was emailed to the local media, including this blog:

Has any one noticed that the local lefties always send Jeff their Press Releases, with none being sent to conservative blogs? They must view his blog as friendly to their causes.

[Bill Tozer]

Even Groundhogs disagree on short term climate change and one is becoming militant.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/groundhog-day-2015-conflicting-forecasts-and-a-bitten-mayor/

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. Steele, I am indifferent to see the ACLU here. They will be here to protect our free speech rights against the thought police. If Sierra College ever tries to set up a No Speech Zone for chatter that some find disagreeable, the ACLU will be there like the Ghost Buster Squad. Heck, they even defended the Skinhead KKK White Supremanies iin some God forsaken place. Who knows, they might be defending some young lassie who pulls out a boob to breastfeed on the bench in front of the National Hotel. They will be defending searches of students lockers and all sorts of stuff, leaving no rock unturned.

Noticed Patty Smith is on the board. I have poked around and have not found one single person who actually knows Ms. Smith personally utter a single unkind word about her. Those that know her personally and even as a passing acquaintance sing her praises loudly as a kind, caring, loving person without being prompted or hesitation. That says a lot. Heard she spends much time on labors of love to help people for free. May disagree with her, but she would be a perfect fit for the ACLU.
The Barney Fife Squad has some competition and those who try to muzzle our God given rights should be watchng their backs. The pendulum swings both ways,

All in all, much ado about nothing. We need more Ben Emerys fighting the good fight, whether I agree or disagree.

[Barry Pruett]

All of my ineractions with Ms. Smith have been very positive. I found her honest and interested in doing the right thing. I do not see what the big deal is with an ACLU chapter in Nevada County. We all support civil rights. They are the foundation upon which our free society is founded. I am sure that the ACLU would be supportive of free speech rights in our local parks. It is a no brainer.

[fish]

Posted by: Barry Pruett | 03 February 2015 at 09:19 AM

But Barry.....are they aware of the internet....and how it's changing the way we communicate?

[Joe Koyote]

Todd 8:07 --Hottest where? Would that be Canada and back east today? Jeeze, you people are too much. Cold temps are global warming, --

You are mistaking "weather" for climate change. The only place on Earth that DID NOT have higher than average temperatures last year was the Northeastern US and Canada. Your rationale is invalid, it is like saying because Liberia had an ebola outbreak, the entire planet has an outbreak. Sorry, but you are wrong again.

[Russ Steele]

JoeK@10:04AM

2014: The Most Dishonest Year on Record

‘Warmest Year On Record’ Claims Falling Apart Under Scrutiny

The Nasa climate scientists who claimed 2014 set a new record for global warmth last night admitted they were only 38 per cent sure this was true. Yesterday it emerged that GISS’s analysis – based on readings from more than 3,000 measuring stations worldwide – is subject to a margin of error. Nasa admits this means it is far from certain that 2014 set a record at all. –David Rose, Mail on Sunday, 18 January 2015

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/01/20/2014-the-most-dishonest-year-on-record/

In actual fact, 2014 was the 9th warmest since 1979 in the far more accurate and non contaminated and non manipulated satellite data sets (RSS and UAH merged).

Winters have cooled for 25 years here in the United States, accelerating in the last decade and this year will continue or even increase the downtrend. The only reason that they can make the claim that every month since 1985 is warmer than average is that they cooled off the early 50 years of the century by 0.3F or more degrees with their ‘corrections’.

Thus, the satellite recored is the most accurate. Joe, perhaps you can provide some counter argument data?

[George Rebane]

For the interested reader, there has been no positive correlation between long term earth temperatures and concentration of atmospheric CO2. In fact the last 20 years is an embarrassment for climate alarmists to which they respond by ignoring the data, turning up the volume on their ludicrous claims of consensus. Here's an example of 11,000 years comparing the Greenland temperatures (for those in doubt, Greenland is on Earth).
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-temperature-correlation.htm

The bottom line is that science does not yet know the complete process for Earth's carbon cycle which includes CO2 sources and sinks, and the paths between them. The part that is known has been integrated into the various general circulation models (GCMs), with the unknown parts plastered over variously by the (government funded, agenda driven?) computer modelers. This is why the GCMs give such widely varying results, and more damnably why the aggregate uncertainty (variance) of the predictions has not decreased over the last decades.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/10/manmade-global-warming-the-smoking-gun.html

For the scientist this is a major red light indicating that we don't know what we're talking about. When science in any area progresses, the variance in its predictions shrinks - not so in predicting climate. Readers who pay attention will notice that the climate alarmists never address or respond to the science-based arguments in this debate, simply because they cannot. Their response always focuses on denigrating the sources of skeptical evidence.

[fish]

Posted by: George Rebane | 03 February 2015 at 10:52 AM

George.....shhhhhh......for the secular this is a matter of faith. Be gentle with Joe.

[Micheal Smith]

Yea, you wouldn't want the ACLU helping the NRA as they've done in the past, RIGHT???

Bessee what's your fixation with the VP of the ASA group.

Is there a man crush we don't know about?

[fish]

Sad news gentlemen......a moment of silence for Radio Shack which appears to be at its end.....

[George Rebane]

Micheal(sic) Smith?? 1154am - I don't think anyone here is opposed to the advent of ACLU in NorCal - the Left because their ideologies closely dovetail, and the Right because its ideology doesn't support silencing private sector voices, no matter their (un)reasonable basis. And there have even been times when the ACLU has worked with rightwing organizations for common ends.

But let's not start the "man crush" crap, especially if you happen to be someone's sock puppet as indicated by your facility in typing your name.

[Walt]

Hummm.... Plenty of "Smiths" have been posting lately. Just waiting for John to make his first post.

[msmith121@gmail.com]

Nope George, that's a screw up by my dad and it's spelt that way on my DL. Mom still wants to kill him....

LOL!!!

[George Rebane]

msmith121 117pm - Apologies and condolences.

[Gregory]

For the interested reader, there has been a very weak correlation between CO2 and temps over the past ~540 *million* years, while there's been a very strong correlation between temps (in this case, *OCEAN* temps as measured by oxygen isotope ratios in fossil crustaceans) and galactic cosmic rays.

I think JoKe has never seen a chart of the average correction factors given terrestrial temperature records by NASA GISS or the UAH to homogenize them... the corrections by themselves follow the claimed warming quite well, while the four major worldwide, non-terrestrial air temperature datasets (two satellite, two radiosonde/weather ballon) have sharply diverged from the IPCC-blessed computer models over the time of the "pause". The evidence is pretty clear now that the IPCC-blessed models overemphasize the role of CO2 and have missed something of critical importance.

There's nothing in concept with the homogenization of terrestrial datasets... you can't just have an average of the thermometers, because if you add five Sullivan Screens in the frozen north and remove five from equatorial regions, it will bias the result, but the warmistas seem to always find more reasons for inflating the temps and few reasons for deflating them. Is that cause to denounce them as fraudulent? No, not necessarily... they're true believers and think it is really happening. They're fooling themselves and as Feynman observed years ago, "you are the easiest one to fool".

They'll get it eventually, as will the EPA and the State of California, but not before more economic damage is done.

[joe smith]

Walt, it appears you have a thing for the names "Joe" and "Smith". For being unemployed and supposedly looking for work, you sure waste a lot of time doodling at your computer. Must be nice sucking up unemployment on our tax dollar.

[Gregory]

RIP Electrode Hut (the Radio Shack equivalent Dilbert frequents)

[Walt]

Unemployment? LOL!! I haven't got that in years. And my "income" is none of your concern.
Just because I like to work doesn't mean I need to. Unlike most LIBS I practiced what I preached, by being fiscally conservative. ( That means I didn't piss my paychecks away as fast as they came in.)
So when is your brother "John" going to chime in?
( One guy,, four names... love it.)

[Walt]

On the AGW front,, the usual gang has yet to post ANY evidence to their beliefs.

Funny thing about computers. They can be programmed to spit out anything one wants, no matter what input is fed into them. As the saying goes,, " garbage in,, garbage out".
When one is looking for a preconceived outcome, that computer is your best friend.

The AGWers here may want to explain why the recorded "highs and lows" got changed ( "adjusted") to fit the needs of the scamitists.

Now take a little look where some of these "weather stations" are located.
http://www.surfacestations.org/odd_sites.htm

Yup,, set up next to heat sources and claim things are getting hotter.

[Don Bessee]

Smith 1154- The local aclu/asa will never help the NRA! lol The point here is that we can expect the continuation of the litigious pattern of the asa gang of the last couple of years. In every move they made they always claimed imaginary civil rights violations that were just hype for the headlines. The only difference now is that it will be under the Nevada city aclu banner going forward. As to their vp, besides being an interesting case study his man boobs just give me the vapors, quick pass the smelling salts!! LOL LOL LOL LOL! ;-)

[Walt]

Well ISIS has shown their compassion once again and burned that captive alive.
( Ben and Joe may care to take note of that, since they love to defend those "peace lovers")
Jordan is set to make good on their promise. " If he is harmed, we start hanging your friends.". From what I read, that wannabe woman suicide bomber they have will go to the head of the line.
Word has it the Saudis will be doing the same. The hang man is going to be a busy guy.

[Bill Tozer]

Right on Mr. Walt. Our current Administration can call their acts irrehensible and all sorts of names, but the perpetrators of such heinous unspeakable deeds themselves are not terrorists. They be criminals and muderers, not Muslim terrorists. They are just a few and do not represent Islam, thus they are not Islamic terrorists. They may be extreme, but not Islamic extremist terrorists. Did I kinda get that right?
Good. Now that our Symantec Lesson for today is over, we all can breathe a sigh of relief. Off with your heads to anyone who does calls Islam violent. Peace be with you.

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/pb.51560645913.-2207520000.1423012685./10152783286695914/?type=3&theater

[Walt]

Good catch my friend Bill. The sooner Ben and our Smiths understand that you can't coexist with people that want to KILL you,, the better. Bumper sticker politics just doesn't work.
Visualizing world peace ( remember that one?) is just that. A good visual. It's never going to happen. ( Not until you give the bad guys a thumping the won't soon forget. Like Japan and Germany got)

[Bill Tozer]

Well, no more mamby pamby drone strikes. Time to fight fire with fire. They will be fighting ISIS harder than they fought US troops and taking no prisoners. Them Shittes with US weapons and guns and Iranian special forces have a big score to settle with the Sunnis. No more worring about pesky collateral damage either. Slaughter them all. That is how they win over there. That is what they do best and that is how it is done the Muslim way.
Who let the dogs out? ;)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/armed-with-u-s-weapons-ruthless-militia-beating-isis-in-iraq/

[joe smith]

Being burned alive is being burned alive. Get a grip. We all dislike the smell of burning hair, but the guy who torched the Jordanian pilot is no more or less evil than the drone jockey who remotely guides a missile into a house or the pilot himself who had just dropped ordinance into a urban neighborhood. At least this act was soldier upon soldier and didn't include collateral damage. Everyone can justify or condemn based on their religious or political ilk. Of course "Walt" will construe this statement as my being pro this or anti that, but that's his problem.

[Bill Tozer]

Joe Smith;
Soldiers are trained to kill. They kil and kill until the killing is stopped. That is their job, not picking up the garage spewn in the streets of Haiti. So, in that sense, I have to agree with some of what Joe Smith just said. Surprising, eh.

War is Hell. In war, you come face to face with the demons within and without, at least for those who have been close up and personal with the enemy doing the Tomahawk Chop. Nothing pretty or nice about it, period. You can only hope that your buddies make it back alive since your own fate is certain death. Until that outcome comes to fruition, you kill and kill and kill some more.

Evil? We all know Evil exists and it is not by some moral equivalencies. Evil is an absolute. Evil? What is evil. Reminds me out what Pilot replied to Jesus. "Truth? What is truth?" War is not evil. Hell is not evil. Evil is found in war and in hell.
The story of my life is God did not open the Gates of Hell to toss me in. God went to the gates of Hell to let me out. War is Hell, but not necessarily evil.

[Walt]

WOW Joe,, So much for human rights and the fair treatment of prisoners.
LIBS here won't even let us execute mass killers, let alone child molesters.
Yet "no big deal" when rabid dogs set fire to some poor bastard in a cage.
Great double standard you set.
The vermin in turbans are dreaming up the next "awesome" way to butcher someone.
Sawing someones head off with a dull knife just doesn't do it anymore. Just what will it take to get the likes of you to say enough is enough? Good ol' getting torn limb from limb?
Ropes tided to quad bikes to each appendage? They are just looking for another Westerner to have fun and games with.
I say send some bleeding heart LIBS with another apology letter. Think they will come back alive? let alone in one piece?

Hell Even Paul would rather see them start running our own streets with blood before we do anything about it. How bout you?
I guess it would take a little terrorist action in "peaceful" Nevada City before the local peaceniks would even consider fighting back. And that's exactly where they would love to pull it off. Don't ever think it can never happen.

[Bill Tozer]

Well, Jordan just executed the female suicide bomber and an Al Kadha big wig. At least Jordan kept its word, and knows how to negotiate with the Devil. Just say "noooo". Two down, more to go. ISIS might be having a bad week.

http://news.yahoo.com/jordan-executes-two-iraqi-militants-response-pilots-death-033203764.html

[Walt]

Seems my intel was good. They did mover her to the head of the line.
This is where LIBS should start to bitch. You know,, some "talk'n" should have taken place.
Now the big question.. Who will "O" gripe about?

[Bill Tozer]

Fight salvagyry with salvagyry. That nice female from the Religion of Peace only killed 60 before she got her neck stretched. Wonder if she is going to get 72 virgins or simply be one of her male counterpart's sex toy virgins for eternity.

One may be against violence, against war, against capital punishment, against all unpleasant things that no teddy bear ought ever witness, but playing nice with savages is not going to make your children safer or our world less violent. If one is against bloodshed, then thank your lucky stars that others will do the dirty work for you. You will have clean hands as savages will fight savages.

Look at it this way. The Jordanian pilot's randsom was for two held in jails in Jordan. Now, who are ISIS going to demand be released next time they do this? Don't know, but it certainly won't be those two. Jordan took the chips off the table.
You have to be brain dead to think the two Japanese non combatants would ever ever face anything but death. ISIS demanded a cool 200 million for their lives/Muslim Tax, but never set in motion any mechanism or instructions how that randsom money would be delivered and to whom and by whom. They like killing all non Sunnis and they like it a lot. They would rather fall on their own swords and sell their own children into the sex slave industry than ever receive a randsom or payment. No shock value in that. ISIS simply does not negotiate. Makes them look weak and less frightening to the faint of heart.. ISIS executes allof their fighters returning from a battlefield defeat. No middle ground. No talking, no money, nothing but complete domination of all and submission by all to them is the one and only thing that will pacify them, period.
Thank goodness there are savages in the world today who know how to fight savages. Those are the kind of boots on the ground that can defeat EVIL. No Holds Barred death match. Our hands are clean, except for stuff like abortions and Gang banging.