Sandbox - 16feb15

[Boy, do these sandboxes fill up fast!  Has anybody read the just published 'The Great Divide - Why Liberals and Conservatives will never, ever agree' by William D. Gairdner?  It seems that others are beginning to realize that we are beyond the tipping point and our polarization is irredeemable.  But then, longtime RR readers are aware of that observation of our body politic.  Nevertheless, it's always heartening to welcome more people who have come to understand and share the perception.]

Comments

[Bill Tozer]

Ok, here is one that I have been sitting on for months.

While listening to NPR one night, I was much impressed by a female Latino advocate for immigration. I was awed by her articulate well informed arguments and her eloquent debating style. She knew all the ins and outs of the Obama immigration plan, many of which she pointed out as window dressing and some as smoke and mirrors. Fair enough.
When the topic moved to deportation of criminal immigrants, her argument left me slack jawed. She asked who are those convicted of criminal offenses? "They are our brothers, our sisters, our sons, our cousins, our neighbors".

Wow, she is using the criminal deportation clause as a rallying cry about breaking apart families. And you know what, I bet that clause will be left out in the final bill (if there is one) in the name of compassion and keeping the family intact. One stroke of the Executive Order pen would order non compliance of deporting criminal aliens if they have friends or family here. Just wait and see.

Remember when Obamacare was being rammed down the public's throat....er....being debated? They threw the conservatives a bone by saying that illegal aliens would not be eligible to participate in the Affordable Care Act. I laughed. Sure, anything you libs say. Yeah right. Guess they did not ask Jerry Brown when he recently extended Covered California to illegal aliens.
The libs have thrown the conservatives a bone by saying criminal aliens will be deported. Yeah, right.

[Bill Tozer]

Has it occurred to more than just a few readers that the only religion Obama has defended 100% is Islam? Not one word of critism. Guess it is wise not to burn bridges because someday he might need to sleep under one.

Has it occurred to anyone that Obama has yet to refer to those beheaded on the sun kissed beaches of Libya as Christians? A massacre has happened (again), yet the carefully chosen words of the White House spin omitted the word Christian (again).

Why can't anybody call a spade a spade, besides Egypt and Jordan? We are in a Religious War. Period. A Holy War or Unholy War depending on your preference.

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/pb.51560645913.-2207520000.1424177361./10152807507985914/?type=3&theater

[Barry Pruett]

Watch as the national immigration debate changes shape with the recent court ruling that Obama's immigration executive orders are unconstitutional. How can Congress fund an illegal act?

[Todd Juvinall]

My guess is the court will put on hold their action. I have no confidence in this.

[Russ Steele]

I am currently reading The Great Divide and find the Where Do You Stand side by side charts, comparing liberal and conservative views on issues, helpful in summarizing the authors points. As I read, I see some of the authors points being played out in the news and on this blog. I recommend the book to all blog readers. It is available in Kindle and hard copy from Amazon.

The author has a webpage at www.williamgairdner.com where he has an article on the Paris shooting: Charlie Hebdo - It's a War of the Gods!

Concluding: It is time to recognize that we are in the midst of a war of opposing gods just as dramatic, and theologically-rooted on both sides as any of the ancient wars of the gods depicted by historians, or, more to the point at hand -- by the historians of the Crusades. Recommended.

[George Rebane]

BarryP 644am - That the WH is appealing the ruling, what impact does that have on Congress until the appeal is adjudicated?

re RussS 804am - I too am into 'The Great Divide', thanks to Russ giving it to me for my birthday. It is indeed an even-handed and comprehensive analysis of the liberal and conservative belief tenets, and what impact the resulting polarization is having on rending western societies. RR readers will find few discrepancies between what I have written in these pages (and my extensive Credo) and Gairdner's essay. I also strongly recommend this volume to readers of all socio-political persuasions.

[Barry Pruett]

I have not read the 100-plas page ruling. My understanding is that the judge's order is a temporary restraining order ("TRO") enjoining the administration from implementing the executive orders. A TRO stays in place until the permanent injunction is adjudicated by a trial. The administration can certainly appeal the permanent injunction, but that injunction has not gone to trial and has not been issued. I would have to do some research, but I think that the administration may be able to do an interlocutory appeal (an appeal before the trial), but I am not 100%. Something in my brain is telling me that the TRO is appealable prior to trial, but it would be kind of stupid to appeal the TRO and then go to trial and then possibly lose and appeal again. In the civil realm, it would likely be a waste of resources, but in the government realm resources are infinite...at least in their minds.

As far as Congress is concerned, the TRO is a political advantage. "Why in the world would Congress fund an executive order that cannot even be executed by virtue of a TRO?" A federal judge as ruled that the executive orders are likely illegal. Congress should not fund the executive order until this case has a final verdict or at least until the TRO is lifted.

[George Rebane]

BarryP 937am - The media is reporting that the DoJ is seeking an injunction against the TRO, and the expect a ruling this afternoon. Have no idea how all this fits into the overall legal wrangling about the constitutionality (i.e. legality) of Obama's "executive action" Is that even a concept used in the Constitution? I am aware of 'executive order' being described in the Constitution.

Here is a pretty thorough description of Executive Orders.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Executive+Order

From there we read -
"Executive orders also may be authorized by the president's independent constitutional authority (Cunningham v. Neagle, 135 U.S. 1, 10S. Ct. 658, 34 L. Ed. 55 [1890]). Various clauses of the U.S. Constitution have been cited to support the issuance of executive orders. Among them are the Vestiture Clause, which states, "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America" (art. II, § 1, cl. 1); the Take Care Clause, which states that the president "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" (art. II, § 3); and the Commander in Chief Clause, which states that the president "shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States" (art. II, § 2, cl. 1)."

[Barry Pruett]

Executive orders are simply the method the president uses to execute the laws enacted by Congress and signed by the President. The problem is that his executive orders have the force of law in that they are granting something to someone that the law forbids...hence the fight.

So the administration is seeking a TRO against the TRO? Interesting. The opinion is 100 pages for a reason. The judge wanted the reasoning sound so that it cannot be overturned. What little that I have read, it appears to be a very compelling opinion. I will talk to you more about it this afternoon.

[George Rebane]

The travesty of Obama's nationalized healthcare marches on, and the progressives of the land remain totally clueless -

WASHINGTON (AP) - The official sign-up season for President Barack Obama's health care law may be over, but leading congressional Democrats say millions of Americans facing new tax penalties deserve a second chance.

Three senior House members strongly urged the administration Monday to grant a special sign-up opportunity for uninsured taxpayers who will be facing fines under the law for the first time this year.

[George Boardman]

Conservatives keep demanding that all illegals be rounded up and deported. How, exactly, would that be done?

For starters, it would probably involve a unprecedented intrusion into the houses of millions of Americans, something conservatives claim to abhor. After all, that's why a lot of them bought all those guns.

In areas where there are heavy concentrations of illegals, we'd need a dragnet to make sure they didn't escape. We could probably utilize the techniques employed by the Nazis when they were rounding up Jews in Europe.

Or maybe we could try something more sensible, like granting amnesty to the law-abiding illegals already here--you know, like President Ronald Reagan did.

Then we could deport the criminals, tighten up border security with greater use of drones and other sophisticated technology, and crack down hard on the businesses that employ these people, which is the main incentive for them to come here in the first place.

[Todd Juvinall]

Self deportation works. Look at the Muslims headed back home now that jobs and freebies are drying up. The answer is border first, deal with the people once the border is secure. My guess is all those that think like Boardman will change their minds once a "jihadi" blows up something they like here.

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. Boardman. The consenses here has always been NOT to go around busting down 8 million plus illegall's front doors, dragging them down the street by their hair as female social workers hold the babies. Ain't practical and it ain't gonna happen.
I have always proposed more effort to clamp down at our ports of entry and the southern border. At least turn the screws tighter at the aforementioned places. Less illegal entry as well as less overstayed visas means less future problems.

Then deal with the illegal residents here by green cards, path to citizenship, serving in our Armed Forces (as many do) and kicking out the law breakers. Or do it all simultaneously.
No need to raid homes. When a illegal alien commits a violent crime and is caught whether he/she serves jail time or not, they should be deported after facing the judge and doing time (if any). If that causes a hardship for the criminal's family, the family can always join up with their beloved family member in their country of orgin. Maybe a 2-3 strikes and you are out of here knucklehead for repeat petty offenders.
All the talk in the world and good ideas of how to handle all the known and unknown illegal aliens currently here is a mute point until the floodgates are closed. We can discuss humane treatment of our undocumented residents and migrates after the dam has been repaired. No use talking about farming the flood plain when the dam is being breeched.

[Gregory]

"Conservatives keep demanding that all illegals be rounded up and deported" G Boardman

That's not what I've heard. Romney (a conservative when he thought he needed to be) wanted to just make it less than cushy so they'd self deport. Others just wanted illegals to be deported when they did something criminally illegal, like driving a car without a license and committing fraud by giving a LEO a false name and someone else's driver's license when stopped.

That isn't a round up, that's just SOP.

[Todd Juvinall]

It would be interesting to challenge Boardman to give us the list of those R's and Conservatives (the one's with the power only) that stated they wanted to round them up. Maybe he has some we don't know about? Or maybe he is an affecianto of the DailyKos?

[George Rebane]

GeorgeB 1123am - Mr Boardman, you have a profound misunderstanding of what the conservative view is toward illegal aliens already in-country. Some readers have already taken you to task on your assertion that "Conservatives keep demanding that all illegals be rounded up and deported." I know of no conservatives or conservative outlets that promote such a policy. All reasonable people know that to attempt such deportations to save our country would be tantamount to destroying it. As a voice in our community you should do your best to stifle the trumpeting of such patently false allegations of the far Left.

The solution to our illegal alien problem has several parts, all of them being fairly obvious. And all such policies start with 'sealing' our borders as described here for years. However, our greatest foes, when it comes to conserving America as a sovereign nation-state within its current borders, are the globalist progressives who overwhelmingly wear the Democrat mantle. As you might know, they prefer to hide their stripes in the public forums.

Please don't take any of this as a denigration of you or your character, I am among those who only push back on what appear to be items in your knowledge base and, perhaps, tenets of your ideology. By all means, you are more than welcome to publish your thoughts and debate them here on RR, or even write a byline on something you feel strongly about.

[Don Bessee]

Boardmans misunderstood reference to the Reagan immigration try is why were here. RR made a good faith deal to fix imigration with the dems and did his part and fully expected them to do theirs. They never sealed the boarders as promised. Then we basically did the same under Bush and here we are 5million latter still begging the government to do its job and seal the boarder as repeatedly promised and this time we are at war. Nothing at all for illegals until the boarders are sealed. Wouldn't it be more fair to put those who applied and followed the rules at the front of the pack? Any criminal convictions should be an automatic disqualification - deportation and yes their families too. Seems that would be an excellent incentive to behave. What about the alice in wonderland rules for refugees, so if your a jhihadi in your country of origin and would get entangled with the law back home that's enough under the rules for asylum!?!?! Can we say Boston bombers family ties tell the story?

[George Boardman]

The Republican Party is starting to remind me of Will Rogers' description of that other party: "I'm not a member of an organized party. I am a Democrat."

McConnell and Boehner are blaming each other for defunding Homeland Security, while some Senate Republicans joined the Democrats to pass an immigration reform bill, only to have the House GOP declare it dead on arrival.

John McCain joined Ted Kennedy to sponsor a bill that would provide a path to citizenship, then reversed his position on securing the borders and said he would oppose the bill if it came up for a vote.

Who am I to believe in the Republican Party? Louie Gohmert? Duncan Hunter? Ted Cruz? Or Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush?

How about the party rank-and-file? According to a Reuters/Ipsos poll cited by Rasmussen, 75 percent of Republicans think all/most illegal immigrants should be deported.

Then there's Shaun Kenney, executive director of the Virginia Republican Party, who said he would like to "deport" all Republicans who support deportation.

Get back to me when the GOP stops talking out of both sides of its mouth.

[Don Bessee]

Nice bob n weave on the history GB. The real issue is the shredding of the rule of law. For example the Feds telling DHS boarder agents that it is good to just let drunk drivers go on their way. This is in the super busy Tucson sector, much of which is barren desert. This means few and far between LE of any kind. They normally work under the comity legal theory where they share responsibility with the local LE. So ignore illegal immigrants, ignore those attacking the boarder agents and don't shoot them. Now its ignore the drunk drivers! Act on the bills already passed on boarder security, enforce the rule of law and then lets talk concessions. Homeland Security workers are nearly all classified essential and would still go to work without a funding bill so there is no diminution of security. Let's also remember that most immigration plans were hatched in of good financial times. There is no pie to share with illegal newcomers. What say you GB about the issue of giving retroactive earned income tax credits to illegals who never filed or paid fed taxes?

[Russ Steele]

Mr Boardman

As President once said, "Elections have consequences." Yes they do. All across America voters elected Republican Governors and Attorney Generals. These newly elected Republicans are busy protecting the rights of the citizens in their states. We cannot say the same here in California, our leaders roll over and whimper when the feds bark.

Under Texas leadership, 26 Attorney General have moved forward to challenge the President on his immigration executive order. There will be more challenges as these feisty Republican's seek to protect the citizens in their states from federal over reach.

Stay tuned.

[Todd Juvinall]

Boardman does the ropa-dope dodge. No quotes from anyone to back up his points. Nothing new there. The R's have maintained border security first then deal with those here. Sure he can find some outlier that will say deport. But I want Boardman to go read the PLATFORM and then tell us where it says what he says.

Regarding Reagan. The action of amenety was accomplished by the Executive in conjunction with the Congress. Not by Executive acition. Perhaps a history lesson would assist Boardman in his yapping. But, he represents the laziness of the press I have seen all my politcial life. The people get shortchanged.

[Bill Tozer]

How about a novel idea that has been floating around for years. The idea, which is radical in nature, is to enforce the laws on the books. Sure, it sounds crazy, but the laws were passed by Congress, signed into law by the President, and promptly defunded by the Democrats who controlled the purse strings at the time.
Remember when Congress held the purse strings and Congress made laws? I read about it somewhere. I think it was called legislating if not mistaken. I know, I am just a greenhorn still wet behind the ears and naively wide eyed and bushy tailed. I be full over radical pie in the sky ideals.

[Bill Tozer]

X
http://www.vox.com/2015/2/17/8052457/immigration-lawsuit-opinion

[Bill Tozer]

Topic change. Ah, those silly university students and their lib professors are fomenting a hot bed of radical ideas. Nothing worse than a bunch of 19 year olds not towing the line. Such name calling, such intolerance.

http://news.yahoo.com/commie-loving-mainlanders-targeted-hong-kongs-top-university-210540201--sector.html

[Gregory]

"Get back to me when the GOP stops talking out of both sides of its mouth."-G Boardman

I am flabbergasted to hear an adult expecting a group of 55 million Americans to all have the same opinions.

For all their failings, being pod people isn't one of them, and the national elections are where both parties decide on what they can all pretend are their organizing principles over the next four years.

[Bill Tozer]

Too sweet. The Judge referenced Obam's statement when the current President. announced his new immigration policy to the nation. Something like "I created a new law" will come back to bite his defiant behind.
Despite today's liberal outrage declaring the law, history, justice and "the good" is on their side, Obama cannot simply create new laws out of thin air. Non enforcement of existing law is one thing. Making a new law is another. It is illegal, unconstitutional, and shreds the separation of powers. In a way, it has less to do with immigration and everything to do with the prohibitions contained so clearly in the Constitution.

http://cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/indiscretion-obama-admits-personally-changing-immigration-law

[Todd Juvinall]

When the next Prez does an executive order outlawing democrats, I wonder if the left will agree?

[Bill Tozer]

Todd, are you saying that when Democrats are outlawed, only outlaws will be Democrats?

I envision Whorled Peas on Earth, a place where Democrats rule everything, and a land where Executive Orders go unchallenged.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EV4N2dk0cMk

[Joe Koyote]

Another quote from a corporate CEO about climate change-- this time from Google CEO Eric Schmidt on why his company dropped its membership in ALEC. Many other large corporation including Yahoo, Facebook, Yelp, Coca-Cola, General Motors, Walmart, Wendy's, Kraft Foods, McDonald's, Amazon.com, Apple, Procter & Gamble, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the medical insurance group Blue Cross and Blue Shield dropped their memberships because of ALEC's radical viewpoints and legislative agendas on a multitude of issues.

“The facts of climate change are not in question anymore. The people who oppose it are really hurting our children and our grandchildren and making the world a much worse place. And we should not be aligned with such people. They're just — they’re just literally lying.”

Note: ALEC was started by Heritage co-founder, Paul Weyrich.

[Todd Juvinall]

Soe JoeK your hero is the company that spies on everyone? You crack me up. ALEC is not radical, they are effective in the public policy arena of common sense.

[Bill Tozer]

Joe k, the Global climate is always in flux over time. They just found the bones of an intact extinct marine reptile in Colombia 100 miles from the Caribbean. Guess that means the sea levels have shrunk during the last tens of thousands of years. They don't farm the coast of Greenland like they did just less than a thousand years ago, nor is there remaining an ice bridge across the North Alantic from Northern Europe to Northern America that adventurous people once walked across.
Our planet has a documented history of mega droughts, ice ages, warm periods, you name it....since man has been around and prior to the first footprints in the sand. And the surface of the planet remains 70% oceans, seas, and bodies of water.
Bottom line. How much of climate change is caused by humans that inhabit 30% of the Earth's surface, including sparsely populated vast regions of forest, jungles, and deserts found on every continent? That is the unsettled question in my mind.
If we all stopped burning all fossil fuels this instant and shut down everything for the next 200 years while dwelling in caves with not fires, that would not reduce any carbon percentage I n our atmosphere by any statistically minuscule measurement we have.
How much climate change is caused by humans today? How much was caused by humans during the Stone Age, the Bronze Age, the Renaissance, the Industrial Revolution, not to mention the Wooly Mammaths?
What is the human impact and what can modern man do to chane the climate???????

[Brad C.]

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization... Just another rent seeking non-profit?

[Todd Juvinall]

Depends on whose ox is being gored.

[George Rebane]

BradC 1200pm - Are you aware of what the IRS requires of an organization to qualify for 501c3 status?

'Rent-Seeking'- When a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation.

[Gregory]

JoKe, do you really organize your life around what billionaire CEO's tell you to do and believe?

In the "sun so hot I froze to death" department, according to the Washington Post, "Chicago set a new record low for the date [this AM] of minus 8 degrees, breaking the old record of minus 7 set in 1936. Cincinnati, Nashville and Springfield, Mo., also broke record lows for the date, among dozens of other cities".

Please, ask Eric Schmidt (he's not on my Christmas Card list) where it was in the AGW scientific rhetoric ten years ago that the hotter it got, the colder it would be? Gore was claiming Arctic ice would be gone in 7 years but that was 8 years ago.

I'm happy my son's current Boston area (it's frigid there, too) gigs include free room and board, all utilities, with underground hallways to get from building to building in the dorm complex. Sweet. If it wasn't for school he could stay indoors until it warms up.

[Account Deleted]

"The facts of climate change are not in question anymore."
What facts? How about the "end of snow"?
Seen the photos out of Boston lately?
I'd love to debate the 'facts' of climate change, but golly - it seems the other side's 'facts' just keep changing all of the time.
NOAH and climatologists have declared the drought in California to be part of a cyclical pattern that could extent for decades as it has in the recent past. They further declared it had nothing to do with AGW.
So where is Eric Schmidt on that one? The pols in California are still trying to whip up the AGW boogie man with the current drought.
Of course, I'm not a billionaire, so Joe won't respond to 'the facts'.

[Bill Tozer]

Maybe this should be under the category of Those Left Behind.

http://fortune.com/2015/02/19/germany-greece-euro-zone/?xid=yahoo_fortune

[Account Deleted]

Greece wants to borrow more money and plans to repay it with more borrowing. Hey - it works for US!
Back at home - your tax dollars hard at work.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/feds-america-should-adopt-plant-based-diet/
You have to wonder where they find these people. If you had predicted these 'guidelines' from the feds, the left would call you crazy.
The govt really does want to control your entire life.

[Joe Koyote]

Gregory: "JoKe, do you really organize your life around what billionaire CEO's tell you to do and believe?"
Scott: "Of course, I'm not a billionaire, so Joe won't respond to 'the facts'."

Wonderful responses boys… very thoughtful duh!..same old same old. Is that your best shot?

In fact I don't trust the corporate types at all.. which lends even more credence when they come out on the side of the truth. You see the billionaire/CEO types have way more to lose than you two goofs if they are wrong. So when they "come out" as it were, against climate denial or some other radical rightwing cause, that should signal to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that the gig is up, the handwriting is on the wall, the issue is settled.. in this case human caused climate change is real and the CEO types are changing their position in droves because they can no longer hide behind the lies.. not because they actually give a damn, but because their monetary futures depend on making correct interpretations and decisions. Unlike you boys, they don't depend upon blogs and corporate sponsored think tanks for their information because they know that information is bogus and they can no longer hide behind the, as the CEO of Google puts it, "lies." It is in their vested interests and future financial well being to make the right choices for their stockholders. People like you are just pawns (sheeple if you prefer) who are easily manipulated into supporting their schemes and scams and now that they can no longer "deny" reality you and your ilk are being dumped like a hot potato left trying to hold an umbrella in hundred mile an hour winds. How does it feel to have been conned by your heroes, the capitains of industry?

[George Rebane]

ScottO 846am - On the mark. The advance of these federal dietary guidelines is just the latest of many obaminations on the road to A21. "A panel of nutrition experts recruited by the Obama administration to help craft the next set of guidelines, to be issued this year, said in long-awaited recommendations Thursday that the government should consider the environment when deciding what people should eat." More here -
http://www.wsj.com/articles/diet-experts-push-more-plants-less-meat-in-nod-to-environment-1424368897

[Bill Tozer]

Scott, wow. Imagine being overweight and worksite interventionalis show up and pull you out of the welding booth to have a intervention. Boy, that would be humiliating. Or pull some poor working mom aside while her coworkers start the vicious whisper campaign. Are you sure this article wasn't originally written for The Onion? Wow.

[George Rebane]

Haven't thrown out anything in a while on gun control and the 2nd Amendment to pull the chains of our "moral superiors". Well, here's a video by Bill Whittle that's sure to cause a bit of consternation in certain circles. Then again, maybe crickets would be the best responders.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/pELwCqz2JfE

[Russ Steele]

George,

I like the new header. Who did the graphics for you?

[Account Deleted]

Hey Joe - I'm not getting my AGW 'facts' from blogs or righty think tanks. I'm getting them from the folks you say you trust.
The end of snow. From the NYT. Care to comment?
The drought in California is not from AGW - according to NOAH and climatologists. These are the true believers of AGW and they are saying our drought is not from AGW. Care to comment?
As far as the wealthy being more believable because they "have way more to lose than you two goofs if they are wrong."
They are making their money off of this AGW BS. They have nothing to loose. The typical 'solutions' to AGW always call for more govt controls and higher costs. But these controls and costs mean nothing to the personal lives of the wealthy, with the exception of more money making opportunities.
Would you please address the points I bring up, or will you continue to just call me names?

[George Rebane]

RussS 338pm - A friend of our daughter (Southern Tribe) who is a professional graphics designer. He sent them to me as a birthday present after getting tired of looking at the one I concocted from canned elements ;-) Thanks for the kind words.

[Walt]

OK,,, one for the solar freaks. Even over in the islands, the solar business isn't all that sunny. (400 jobs bite the dust)
Now look what one of the "pro solar" guys pops off with.
"We know specifically that a lot of people who want to install solar can't install solar and there's companies that actively want to sell a product but can't”.

That can be taken two different ways. Are there people who want it installed, and can't?
Or is it the installer business that wants to, just can't find the jobs?
I believe,, he believes there is a conspiracy to stop solar..( too much Maui Waui is my guess)
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/28163938/report-400-solar-jobs-lost-in-hawaii

[Bill Tozer]

Abandon hope all ye who scroll further.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/383905/great-lakes-surface-frozen-second-straight-year

[Joe Koyote]

some FRACKING news: The non-profit Public Accountability Initiative reviewed 130 documents given to Congress by industry reps and found that the "Fracking Industry distorts science to deceive the public and policymakers" about the safety of fracking.

In related news: Oklahoma is now the earthquake capital of America, surpassing California's number of 3.0 or greater quakes last year by almost double. Over the last ten years, the rise in earthquakes is in direct proportion to the number of fracking operations approved in Oklahoma. The Oklahoma legislature is reviewing (industry provided) research to determine whether or not to limit or ban fracking.

Just another coincidence like climate change, GMOs, tobacco, prescription drugs, or any number of other controversial issues that effect the public health and well being on one side and corporate profits on the other. The corporations lie about everything. Legal precedent requires CEOs to maximize shareholder returns under penalty of law even if it means screwing the public. What a great system we have.

[Brad C.]

Walt, Hawaii solar project slack could have somrhing to do with this,

http://allianceforsolarchoice.com/new-poll-shows-hawaiian-electric-fails-meet-customer-appetite-solar/

[Brad C.]

I got your solar freaks right here...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/02/20/solar-energys-new-best-friend-is-the-christian-coalition/

[George Rebane]

JoeK 843am - Methinks fracking is one of those processes the collateral effects of which can be unambiguously measured. And yes, the land will settle if you remove some of its supporting structures (here fluids).

[Todd Juvinall]

JoeK, why are there so many earthquakes in the Yellowstone area? There is no fracking there.

Since my Brother-in-law is a geologist from Colorado and is working in North Dakota I asked him about all these claims by the libs that fracking is bad. He says nope. The earths crust is really really thick and this fracking is like a little scratch at the surface. It really is all about fossil fuels for the left and the science gas nothing to do with it. Sort of the same for "global warming" nuts. The science is not there but the computer models may be. What a hoot! Anyway, JoeK please send me to the scientific links with peer reviewed data on the "sea level rise". Oh, can't find any? LOL!

[Russ Steele]

JoeK@08:43

What about the quakes in NW Nevada, about 40 miles south of Lakeview Oregon. No fracking there, yet the area is having a swarm of earthquakes. Is fracking on OK causing these quakes?

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/01/8_earthquakes_in_24_hours_ratt.html

http://www.kptv.com/story/27299568/scientists-monitoring-earthquake-swarm-near-lakeview

[George Rebane]

Gentlemen, I don't think listing all the various locations of earthquakes is going to resolve 'fracking also causes earthquakes'. As we know, earthquakes are the result of a spectrum of precursors ranging from plate tectonics, abnormal magma bubbles, nuclear explosions, and possibly fracking. If the latter cause is established, then one can argue that fracking near established fault lines that have been locked for a long time (i.e. stored up a lot of energy) will impose a risk for a larger quake along the fault, since these big ones can be set off by nearby small ones. It's an area of science not settled since even our plate tectonics earthquake models are highly unreliable (i.e. have wide variances for when and how large will be the next fault line earthquake).

[Todd Juvinall]

After the movie "Gaslands" came out and was reviewed for veracity we all got to see what crap these libs spew. The water faucet on fire had nothing to do with fracking yet that was the movies claim. Since that movie was proved bogus, the left is now using this earthquake stuff. It is one more step in their disinformation campaign. Many of us saw the same beginning for AGW way back and look how that went. Billions of tax dollars to bogus science. So I would suggest that every time a JoeK or JoeSmith rear their heads and claim some evil from these things, we have to debunk them every time so their crapola does not take root.

[Account Deleted]

Good old Joe. Says I get all my info from the right wing blogs and when I point out that I don't, he changes the subject to something else.
Then he comes up with this:
"The corporations lie about everything."
Now, normally I'd ask for some proof of this breathtakingly idiot remark, but I know that Joe would rather just change the subject again.
With an attitude like that, no wonder he has the opinions he holds.
Let's see, many corps that make money off of gov mandated AGW BS are all in with everything that Joe says about AGW. But Joe says they are liars. How does Joe square that little conundrum? Oh, I know, change the subject!

[Russ Steele]

Quote of the week, Mark Steyn:

Marie Harf, star of the hilarious new comedy Geopolitically Blonde, explaining her jobs-for-jihadis program.

[Bill Tozer]

O
https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10152823601265914/?type=1&theater

[Joe Koyote]

From the National Geographic Society on the climate change hoax-- "The idea that hundreds of scientist from all over the world would collaborate on such a vast hoax is laughable--scientists love to debunk one another. It's very clear, however, that organizations funded in part by the fossil fuel industry have deliberately tried to undermine the public's understanding of the scientific consensus by promoting a few skeptics."

In related news--Noted skeptic, Dr. Willie Soon of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, has failed to mention that he has received over $1.2 million from the fossil fuel industry. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals that published his work.

Leaked documents show that Dr. Soon, in correspondence with his corporate funders, described many of his scientific papers as “deliverables” that he completed in exchange for their money. He used the same term to describe testimony he prepared for Congress.

[George Rebane]

JoeK 925am - There is no need for hundreds of scientists to "collaborate on such a vast hoax", as I've pointed out numerous times. The vast majority of the included scientists are narrow specialists with not a clue on how their work fits into or impacts the general circulation models used to generate those dire scenarios.

But how is that 'clarity' substantiated "that organizations funded in part by the fossil fuel industry have deliberately tried to undermine the public's understanding of the scientific consensus by promoting a few skeptics"?

The number of skeptics are anything but the "few" that climate alarmist tell us are the loners howling in the wilderness. Their ranks today are legion and growing. And please see the walk back that the last IPCC report has not included.

BTW, 'deliverables' is the standard term used to describe a project's end-products, especially if they result from contracted work and/or are listed in a proposal. Apparently you are not familiar with the usage and feel you have unearthed a pejorative here. Not to worry, it is just the standard lexicon, especially in research and development.

[fish]

Noted climatologist/astrophysicist Ben Emery rouses himself from his sickbed to enlighten the lumproletariat....

No Surprise. Actually the solar constant is just that, constant. I don’t have my notes in front of me but there are many factors in in measuring global warming/ climate change and only one of the major factoring measurements is not accounted for, emissions from carbon. When all other factors are measured the temperature increase is only a fraction of what we are experiencing. So the conclusion is the emissions of carbon account for the remaining increases. Of course there are compounding factors and they are accounted for in the models. I think a 10% increase in the solar constant takes hundreds of millions of years and maybe even a billion years.

So why are we seeing such a spike in the last century? The burning of fossil fuels and totally distorting the carbon cycle with our ever increasing global life of comfort and the pursuit of profit.

...and from the dimmer corner of your quaint little hamlet a freelance village idiot weighs in.

In related news--Noted skeptic, Dr. Willie Soon of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, has failed to mention that he has received over $1.2 million from the fossil fuel industry. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals that published his work.

Time to just get used to it JoKe.....even if we cut back our carbon emissions China and India will more than make up for us.

It hardly matters though you're probably going to get your carbon tax eventually.....enjoy poverty.....I think it will suit you.

[L]

JoKe, please instruct us on why the energy giants would prefer not to maximize the value of their reserves so as to keep gas and gasoline prices high? The environmentalists are very useful idiots in this respect and probably explains while big oil hands out so much money to the warmunist side, as opposed to the occasional tip in the jar for the skeptic side. L

[Ben Emery]

Fish,
Recovering from my last surgery and thought I would pop onto the local food fight to see what is happening. Global Warming/ Climate Change is the most serious issue of the day but to try and talk solutions when all major and up/ coming governments are controlled by the unaccountable WTO, World Bank, IMF, and the dozens of Free Trade agreements makes talking solutions a waste of time if those solutions get in the way of profits.

[Michael R. Kesti]

This morning, on his blog Sierra Foothills Report, the FUE reports that former Nevada County Superintendent of Schools, Terry McAteer, is under investigation by the Inyo County Grand Jury. In support of that story the FUE includes an image of The Inyo Register's report of the investigation. That report includes a picture of a vehicle with a caption that begins with the sentence, "The 2013 Ford Escape Titanium that the Inyo County Board of Education gave Superintendent of Schools permission to by [sic] for business purposes."

So you suppose the FUE will ridicule The Inyo Register for its error in construction as he has repeatedly derided The Union for similar flaws?

I don't either.

[George Rebane]

MichaelK 904am - I suppose from that pinnacle of moral certitude it is easy to apply different strokes to different folks.

[fish]

Posted by: Michael R. Kesti | 24 February 2015 at 09:04 AM

Ultimately jeffy sees himself as the "editor......I imagine right now he's stuffing the electronic "memory hole" with his mistakes.

You should bill him for your services Michael....you seem a far more capable proofreader/editor than Nevada Citys professional wordsmith!

[Michael R. Kesti]

fish 24Feb15 11:17 AM

Your comment is short two commas, one before "jeffy" (which, being a proper noun, should be capitalized) and another before "Michael", is short a closing quote following "editor," and twice includes inappropriate and improperly formed ellipses.

No charge this time, fish!

[fish]

Your comment is short two commas, one before "jeffy" (which, being a proper noun, should be capitalized) and another before "Michael", is short a closing quote following "editor," and twice includes inappropriate and improperly formed ellipses.

You are good....

1) "jeffy" doesn't merit capitalization. After all it's jeffy.

2) is short a closing quote following "editor," Yeah I saw that after I posted....bummer.

3) and twice includes inappropriate and improperly formed ellipses. Meant to substitute for pauses. An affectation.

[fish]

CURSE THOSE FOUL PROFIT MONGERING PLANET RAPING CORPORATIONS THEY WILL BE THE DEATH OF US ALL!!!!!

By the way, did you know that the launch party for Dr Pachauri's sustainable-growth romp was paid for by BP? Hold that thought.

http://www.steynonline.com/6826/fake-nobel-laureate-facing-sex-arrest-for

Mark Steyn must think it's Christmas nearly every day recently.

[Michael R. Kesti]

fish 24Feb15 01:57 PM

After my 1:24 I noticed that I had missed one and decided to see if you would call me on it.

You omitted an apostrophe in "Nevada Citys."

[fish]

After my 1:24 I noticed that I had missed one and decided to see if you would call me on it.

Nope....I bow before your grammar skilz!

[Don Bessee]

Bag ban repeal ballot prop has qualified and the State bag ban is on hold to 11/16 for a vote. Kesti if I ever need a new secretary I will keep you in mind. lol

[Michael R. Kesti]

Don Bessee 24Feb15 03:16 PM

Thanks, Don, but I doubt you could afford to hire me.

Note that initialisms are properly expressed in capital letters.

LOL, indeed!

[George Rebane]

Well, now that we have ample evidence of his bona fides, I'd like to acknowledge and welcome RR's very own Grammarian Laureate. Boys and girls, henceforth watch your Ps and Qs ;-)

[Don Bessee]

You get a cookie kresti.

[Walt]

So.. We have a badge pack'n spell'n police now?
What gives? Thanks to LIB outcome based edumication,, close is good nuff.

[Bill Tozer]

At least Fish knows how to type in cursive. I am impressed. Walt, no worries. The spelling police never stopped the Rolling Stones. "I ain't got no satisfaction" includes a double negative, thus they got satisfaction. Either way, no one cared as the song soared to #1 in 1966? and is probably their greatest hit. Alas, people gave the Stones' a thumbs up and the grammar police the one finger salute. Well, them music types get away with artistic license everyday. Yet, there is hope for us knuckledraggers which burns eternal in the breast of mankind. Like the old saying, "yesterday I could not spell contractor, today I r one."

[Walt]

"yesterday I could not spell contractor, today I r one."
So you wound up at Holiday express last night? So who is the "contract" on?

[Ben Emery]

Don,
And why do you want single use plastic bags back in circulation?

Did you know plastic leach PCB's, which effect reproduction, disrupt endocrine system, and decrease the size of penises to name a few issues?

[L]

Ben, you've only to stop "doing" plastic shopping bags to solve that last drawback. Are they that good?

[Ben Emery]

Here you go L.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/dec/29/plastic-bags-pacific-waste-revulsion

"As the Guardian reported at the time: "Instead of finding some prelapsarian wilderness, she and a colleague were confronted with the horror of hundreds of albatrosses lying on the sand. The great birds' stomachs had been split open by the heat and bits of plastic were spewing out between the feathers and the bones. All kinds of plastic – toys, shopping bags, asthma inhalers, pens, cigarette lighters, toothbrushes, combs, bottle tops. The birds had swallowed them and choked to death."

Later, Hosking and her colleagues found humpback whales, seals and turtles, "all dead or dying from the plastic", which rolled in on every tide."

[fish]

Hey?!? Question for the ardent democrats on the panel.....has crypto-republican Joe Biden infiltrated your ranks? Every time he opens his mouth he drives people into the arms of TEAM STUPID!

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/black-history-biden-veep-calls-for-emancipation-of-peoples-wealth/article/2560680

[fish]

Well of course she does......it would have made her first White House stay so much more pleasant!

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/25/hillary-clinton-endorses-fccs-title-ii-designation-for-the-internet/

[L]

Ben at 615a, As we drive west out of Tucson, I'm amazed at the huge number of discarded shopping bags with numbers decreasing the further from "civilization" we get. Still, they somehow don't seem to increase in numbers over the years- probably sun and rain degrade them and probably some just blow deeper into the desert where they can't be seen.

However, the bags themselves aren't the culprits, it's the lo grade morons who don't dispose of them properly. Kinda like with guns, they aren't the problem, people are.

Bonus question: What demographic is most likely to produce the largest number of litterers. Hint, the bag density is highest on the Res. L

[Todd Juvinall]

I love to reuse the plastic bags here at my place. Cat crap gets put in them and tossed into the garbage. I could wrap it in paper but then more trees would have to be cut down. Well, maybe I'll wrap it up in saran wrap and give it to Ben Emery for his organic garden. There, all better now.

[George Rebane]

L 1003am - Surely you must be mistaken about "the bag density is highest on the Res." How could the heritors of such impeccable genes, those that have always been at one and communed with nature, be accused of desecrating Gaya herself under the watchful eye of the Great Spirit. Unimaginable.

[Walt]

OH Shit... Now someone has crapped on Mr Bill's war path. He will be out for scalps to hang on his 20th century wigwam. You should know how he gets when Natives get "dissed".

In the distant past, it was the ECO clan that led the push for plastic this and that.
SAVE THE TREES!!! ( remember that?) From the Big Mac containers to shopping bags.
"plastic was more friendly". Now the 180. Back to paper.."Plastic bad!!!"
When we shopped, I went with "save a logger" when asked " paper or plastic?"

[Walt]

Well get ready for Ca to ask for even more handouts, and raise our taxes.
If this goes down, the money will have to come from somewhere. ( namely our pockets)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/25/california-lawmakers-push-to-repeal-welfare-queen-law/
Then of course, a few million illegals getting in on the game, since LIBS want to give them welfare too.

So Lefies,,, where is the money going to come from? DO tell... Another "tax the rich" scam?

[Bill Tozer]

I would like to take this moment to say "Happy Birthday Fish". 94 years young and still kicking.

https://www.facebook.com/TheRiverNEPA/photos/a.446237695389101.108790.444698605543010/962428040436728/?type=1&theater

As for my firewater drinking lazy ass litterbug peyote smoking brothers back home on the Rez, the Great Spirit tells me time to sharpen the tomahawk and scalping knife. Not for the honor of my people, but just for fun. Always prefer to put paleface hair pieces in plastic bags. Darn blood soaks throught the paper bags and....plop!....bigum mess on ground. How unsightly.
Talk about unsightly, them squaws in the Arizona and New Mexico put the ug in ugly. But they do indeed keep my wig wam.

[Walt]

Called that one... "L" might want to shave his head.

[fish]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 25 February 2015 at 08:11 PM

I can assure you William that I don't look nearly as good as the Fish in that photo!

[Brad C.]

Problems associated with giving big corporate tax breaks in Nevada.

http://news.yahoo.com/reno-handle-challenges-economic-successes-120943236--business.html

[fish]

This would make me very very happy! Delicious delicious Schadenfraude!

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/February-2015/Jesse-Sharkey-Election/

[fish]

Posted by: Brad C. | 26 February 2015 at 08:28 AM

The wear and tear is noticeable, said Andrea Hughs-Baird, a 20-year Reno resident and mother of three. She says her children’s schools have fraying carpets, broken sinks and aging heating systems.

So what's the prob?

The existing model is broken and much of it is going away! Ms Hughs-Baird will likely be educating one or two of her children at home via the internet (assuming the FCC doesn't completely fuck it up over the next few years) and fraying carpets will no longer be a concern.

[Brad C.]

L 1003am - nice racial innuendo. How about a link to this data?

You sure it is not Texans driving through the Navajo nation?

"Perhaps the most telling result of the study is that 52% of Texans either participated in, or condoned, littering behavior in the past three years. That means that more than one half of all Texas residents reported involvement in littering behavior, or being tolerant of the littering behavior of their peers."

http://www.dontmesswithtexas.org/research/1998-Litter-Attitudes-and-Behaviors-Study_Fact-Sheet.php

[George Rebane]

BradC 1229pm - Well there's a stretch, Texans driving out to the western reaches of Tucson, AZ to wantonly deposit their litter on Indian reservations. Whouda thought?

But so we can penetrate any "racial innuendos" that L may have floated, let me be less ambiguous. There is no evidence that North American Indians were any more sensitive to the preservation of their environment than were the later settlers who arrived on these shores and spread across the continent. Granted that the Indians' impact on the environment was lower than that of the successive waves of whites and Asians, but that was because they were a painfully backward race of people, both culturally and technically.

Because of their culture(s) they never figured out how to grow their populations because of their ruthless internal practices and traditions, and their constant internecine warfare over the millennia. Living on arguably the richest continent on God's green earth, they never figured out the civilizational basics such as the wheel, smelting iron (useful metals), pack animals, and writing. And everything they made and consumed was of natural materials that either bio-degraded or reassumed their natural place in the scenery - and this was not because they rejected opportunities to advance in favor of environmental high mindedness. When encountered by explorers and settlers, they were more than 5,000 years behind humans in Europe and Asia.

Granted, that their conquerors did them a disservice by immediately putting them on the dole when their survivors demanded to continue living according to their old ways. But even with those disadvantages, today they exceed by far numbers that they could not achieve in the pristine practice of their own cultures.

(Their southern cousins were a bit more advanced in their technologies and therefore more impactive on their environments. But they also were culturally deprived through their incessant warfare with and enslavement of their neighbors as required by their religions and traditions. How else could 50 guys on horses knock over the biggest empire in the entire western hemisphere.)

And since all that correlates with 'race', you can put these observations down into your racist column. No innuendos implied or needed.

[Walt]

OK,, here is a real winner.. Just how in hell do you steal a whole house?
http://kobi5.com/news/item/missing-house-in-klamath-falls.html#.VO-iXvnF_74

One big ass helicopter? ( but I'm sure someone would see that.)

Now... would that be covered by homeowners insurance?

[Brad C.]

George 0123pm We don't even know where the sockpuppet known as "L" got his info from, or which "rez" he was referring to.

If 50% of Texans are litterbugs, why couldn't 50% of New Mexicans and Arizonans also be litterbugs. Most of the bags I saw last time I was out there were of the blue, Walmart variety.
Might want to blame the great floating bag gyre on working (or otherwise) poor, undereducated, Walmart shoppers who can't afford a Waste Management subscription.

Or, could just be a case of poor landfill management practices. The bags might make it to the dump only to blow away before the cover fill could be placed.

[George Rebane]

BradC 403pm - I do know L and where he lives. He is an astute and accurate observer of the human condition. His report indicated a differential density of plastic bags on the nearby Indian reservation in the Arizona desert. A lesson in inference - when a differential density is so indicated, it is highly unlikely that people even as nearby as Tucson, let alone Texas, would drive out there to create such differential density just out of spite. In short, to what end??

In the overview, my own experience corroborates L's report. Have driven across many a reservation and noticed a marked increase in roadside detritus - everything from booze bottles to pieces of broken furniture. It's a matter of culture.