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16 May 2015

Comments

George Rebane

My own take on the Delta Force commando raid in Syria is that such in-and-out stealthy strikes do not count as 'boots on the ground' in any theater. Such missions are important force projections without even any short term commitments connected to them. It tells our enemies that there is literally no where you can hide and be safe if we decide to bring you or take you out.

Boots on the ground means a protracted stay in harm's way on someone else's turf. For instance, our troops training the Kurds and Iraqi military in a battle zone would be considered 'boots on the ground'. Ergo, today we have boots on the ground in Iraq.

Walt

On the subject of money loosing trains,, Just wait for the massive losses of the Brown Streak. Not counting the current losses, and not a foot of track has been laid.

George Rebane

Walt 1223pm - "Brown Streak"?! that sounds like a sanitary problem. Most certainly it will induce one when the bill comes due.

Jon

That was pretty good, Doctor.. Agree with you on your Syrian take. It was a nice, surprise strike. Need more of them.

Jon

Walt, you were talking about boarder security on the May3 box. Do you still have tenants at your property that got trashed? By your comment I assume that the locks got destroyed and need to be replaced?

Walt

Nope,, sold it at a loss, and the guy who has it now is still doing repairs.
Then the county got in on the fun when the permit was pulled. All those nice new mandates LIBS in Sac. just HAD to impose. RL did a great sketch on that discussion. Your memory failing you?
How about the MJ folks make up my loss? The damage that was done would have been allowed if "S" would have passed. ( like that would ever happen)

Walt

Doc. Funny thing about publicly funded ( at gun point actually) rail systems.
The advertised cost is never right. Hawaii is finding that out, and the natives are pissed.
That one is also 4x and counting over budget, and not even half built. The sales tax will sunset, and the "pro rail" group there now wants to keep the sales tax permanent. ( yes.. Stick it to the tourists, on top of all the other tourist taxes they already have)

No such luck here in Ca. Everyone who will never even use that train will get sodomized for it's cost.
http://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_1A,_High-Speed_Rail_Act_%282008%29

"The proposed California High Speed Rail line would be more expensive than every other active HSR proposal in the country put together. While subsidized by everyone who pays the regressive sales tax, its users would have a higher than average income, so it is a subsidy from the poor to the rich. It would cost about $600-$1000 person or $2000-$3000 per California household before a single trip is made. This money could support about 20,000 teachers or police perpetually. For every $1 spent by the passenger, it would entail $4 in public subsidy, twice the annual expenditure of the State Transportation Improvement Program"
http://nexus.umn.edu/projects/hsr/hsr-factsheet.html

But what the hell... It's only OPM....

George Rebane

Walt 0118pm - True enough, but what if, as I have discovered, we are the "other people"?

Walt

Exactly... "we" IS them..... ( fork it over)

On a different note those who push for computer controlled everything, ( yes,, even the wrecked train)
Take a gander at what happened in the air by a pissed off "smart guy".
http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/

Great! from planes, trains, and automobiles will be "automated", And ripe for hacking
by a school kid looking for shits and giggles. ( then there is Omar lurking in the shadows too. "he" was able to hack our top secret drone.)

Don Bessee

While the rescue of the hapless slave is nice the real prize will be in the computers and documents swept up in the process. Frankly we should talk less about these kind of operations because there is a window that can be exploited before everyone knows this info node is gone. Its the desperation in 0's house that drives this kind of counter productive PR. Did anyone hear the asst. press secretary's back and forth with the ABC news guy on how great things are in Iraq/Syria?

Ben Emery

George, 16 May 2015 at 11:22 AM

My usual question, reverse the circumstances and it was within US borders that a foreign military came in and shot up people? Would you consider that boots on the ground and an act of war?


Jon

Walt, any Hawaiian on Oahu who commutes around Honolulu will be pissed, whether or not they build out some mass transit. Its THE Worst auto traffic in the US relative to the size of the city. They have to figure out something mass transit related. I wouldn't go near Oahu except to change planes. Big Island primarily.

Jon

...boarder security went right over.....

Walt

Ben. How do you know that the Mossad hasn't carried out just that on U.S. soil?
Or the Russians? The media is pretty good at taking orders from our government.
There is plenty that is never in the news. Just like terrorist threats that have been neutralized right here at home that have been hushed up. Yes. Bush stopped many, yet not a peep from the press.

Walt

Now your really full of it. "jon". I didn't have any problems, and it's now worse than anywhere else. I happen to read the Hawaiian news pretty much daily. My Grand kids's boyfriend is from the Islands, and their family has a good stake in the coffee grows.

I doubt you have even read what I have posted from there, let alone the news from there in the past two years.

Don Bessee

In case you missed it ben we have been at war for the last 14years! 0 claiming victory then cutting and running has only emboldened the opposition and we have a near biblical level explosion from north Africa to Pakistan and everywhere in between. They have in fact already been shooting and blowing up a lot of places here Or has PBS failed to cover it? Wasn't there something about a federal death penalty this week? I know, workplace violence etc. etc. etc. With the 0 executive open boarder initiative its going to get worse. From letting in anyone from the middle east who claims asylum with no history checks and not even trying to stop the flow from the south you can bet we will be paying for those mistakes too.

George Rebane

BenE 402pm - Be advised that 'boots on the ground' is a foreign policy term of art that has currency in the US denoting some notion of extended military ground engagement in a foreign country. Its use is to evaluate political promises made.

If any foreign power covertly or against our wishes puts its military on US soil, it is an act of war. Fine points like 'boots on the ground' wouldn't enter the discussion. Syria is not making anything of our commando raid on its territory because 1) it can't do anything about, and 2) the raid was to the benefit of its own war with ISIS.

Walt

There have been reports of Mexican military making incursions onto U.S. soil. ( under "O"'s watch) Probably helping drug smugglers. Our Boarder patrols have come under heavy weapons fire. Yet nothing was done about it. ( Google it)
Now ISIS is reported to have camps in Mexico. What is to stop those same Mexican troops from helping them cross? No news of U.S. raids on those camps. Yes, the enemy is at the gates, and "O" and Co. can care less.

Jon

Workplace violence in the same breath as war and terror? Blame that on Obama too. Nice one Don.

Jon

Walt, with all those thousands of yahoos down there at the "boarder" as you say, why hasn't a photo emerged of Mexican troops on US soil? You guys are just amazing.

Jon

Walt, more details about the Isis camps in Mexico please. WorldNet Daily must have the specifics..

Jon

Walt, regarding Hawaii- please stop touting your supposed intimate knowledge about Hawaii. I've been going there for more years than you can count I would imagine.
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/06/18/news/story02.html

Bill Tozer

Mr. Jon: Today I stopped by the breakfast joint to get a cup of java, aka, Christian Crank. The waitress asked "Cream in your coffee, sir?" I replied "Not lately."

Walt

"jon" is really "loosen it". The next knock on the door will be from some nice men in white coats. I advise you go quietly. They will help you get back on the proper medication.
Speaking of nut jobs,, Another LIB blows a fuse.
http://www.kcra.com/news/did-rep-loretta-sanchez-make-a-questionable-comment-about-native-americans/33065344
Yup,, that will get ya' elected...

You were in Hawaii "jon"? Which one of the street urchins were ya'? They were 3 deep on the sidewalk when I was there just last year. Nevada City has nothing on Waikiki beach.
I went in the style I'm accustomed to.( 1st class) And you? ( cargo class?)

As for that new rail line,,, it's falling apart already. Nice big cracks in the prefab castings, and the construction Co. is already making excuses. They just can't make quality concrete anymore. They sure knew how back before WWII,, the big artillery bunker (which is now a museum,,Fort De Russy) couldn't be demolished no matter how much they tried. ( people went broke trying)
OK smart guy,, which local from here got elected "there"? ( and to which position)
Now no google work. That would be cheating.

Just love the history of the place. I go every chance I can get.
Gotta get back soon, because the volcano is up to something, and would like to be there when it does.

Jon

Tozer,much,much better!...

Don Bessee

The dark lord of liberal lament land can not even engage. Too sweet. Hassan terror took an act of congress to get the victims reclassified from 0's workplace violence to a terrorist event. Trollalicious of you.

Jon

Walt, sidewalks of Waikiki? I inhabit places on the Big Island you will never see. If I see the volcano erupt, I'll let you know. None of the dreaded VOG last month, and not much lava activity.

Paul Emery

CAn someone exp;ain the Constitutionality of us sending commandos to a foreign nation without Congressional approval and at least discussion?

Account Deleted

Paul - Obama is the commander in chief. The Constitution means nothing to him. And how do you know it wasn't discussed?

Todd Juvinall

I think there is a Resolution in place giving Obama Congressional approval for these things. Passed when we went into Iraq.

George Rebane

PaulE 128am - I believe one stave of constitutional backing our president has for these types of forays was established as an executive power for the federal government to provide national security when Jefferson sent the Marines to Tripoli, and TRoosevelt again sent Marines to Morocco, and Obama killed Osama (there have no doubt been other such episodes that don't come to mind now). But I believe your point is a good one, and needs to be revisited when we execute one of these strikes.

Paul Emery

Todd

there is considerable discussion among the true Conservatives about the Constitutionality of our actions in Syria. This is a typical one from Ron Paul.

"Ron Paul, America’s most outspoken libertarian and anti-mainstream politician, has slammed US military strikes in Syria and Iraq.

Not known for mincing his words or flip-flopping, Paul told RT’s Abby Martin that President Obama’s decision to use military force in Iraq and Syria against the Islamic State [IS], without approval from the UN or the US Congress, was “immoral and illegal” under US and international law.

READ MORE: Ron Paul: Imperial presidency, abuse of presidential powers have grown since Nixon

The “whole mess that we’ve been involved in in the Middle East has been technically illegal because we’ve initiated war, but we haven’t declared war,” Paul told Abby Martin in RT’s “Breaking the Set” show.

“I consider what’s going on now, specifically in these last few weeks, totally immoral,” Paul said. “I think it’s illegal under our laws and illegal under international law as well.”

http://rt.com/usa/191404-paul-obama-isis-syria/

Don Bessee

So now we have Paul Emery telling us who the true conservatives are. LOL!! SO Paul what about the continued use of weapons of mass destruction by assad? Seems the good rev al has found a way out of his 5 million dollar tax problem that will work better than having a 4th or 5th stored records spontaneously combust story. His daughter just filed a slip and fall suit against NY city for...... $5 million.

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 17 May 2015 at 11:57 AM


Bad news Paul...the constitution....the U.S. Constitution......we're not using it any longer!

Whether is waging a war....err....kinetic military action in Syria or importing big chunks of Central America and Africa in an attempt to "vote America a new people" the document is stone dead.


Sorry......

Paul Emery

Don.

Sounds like you're supporting Obama on this one Don. The question is not the wisdom of our action in Syria as much as it is the problem of following Constitutional guidelines embraced by our founding fathers. The Heritage Foundation has an thoughtful piece on the subject. Their essay includes this:

"Early in American history, in an era of limited peacetime budgets for military resources, Presidents tended to defer to Congress. In modern times, the debate over the allocation of war powers between Congress and the President is dramatically affected by the institution of a large United States peacetime military force following World War II. Starting with the Korean War, modern Presidents have been more aggressive in asserting unilateral authority to engage in war without declaration or other congressional authorization. In 1973, Congress attempted to affirm its control over war through passage, over President Richard M. Nixon's veto, of the War Powers Resolution. Presidents have generally refused to recognize the constitutional operation of the War Powers Resolution, although Presidents have often taken actions "consistent" with the War Powers Resolution to avoid unnecessary conflict with Congress."


I suggest a thorough reading. Here is the link.

http://www.heritage.org/constitution#!/articles/1/essays/49/declare-war

George Rebane

re PaulE's 1258pm - from the Heritage piece, "...the Framers were undoubtedly aware of the general rule that, as Hugo Grotius had put it, 'By the law of nature, no declaration is required when one is repelling an invasion.'" Interesting point when interpreted in light of 21st century technology instead of 18th century technology.

Back then, all invasions started at your shoreline or border, and there was no doubt as to what the constitutional response should be to keep the nation secure. That is not the case today when we must secure the nation from attacks and 'invasions' which can launch in far off lands, and be executed by literally anybody (e.g. non-state actors). Such an 'invader' may be momentarily visible to us when on foreign soil, and then becomes invisible as he departs for America. The President has to rapidly answer such threats that in many ways are constitutionally murky, and we may need either more categorical congressional guidance on such matters, or give the President his leave to interpret past guidance and act as necessary to protect the country when it doesn't require protracted military efforts.

I support President Obama in his policy of commando and drone attacks to strike back at avowed existential threats to America. It appears to be the only successful part of his foreign policy.

Don Bessee

No Thanks Emery, I don't need the cliff notes, I read the originals myself. Who was the first American President to attack an Arab Country without benefit of a congressional declaration and who also did not think one was required? For $200 Alex.

Bill Tozer

Sandbox breaking news: The fruit of the poison tree:

http://nypost.com/2015/05/17/al-sharptons-daughter-sues-city-for-5m-after-spraining-ankle/

Todd Juvinall

DonB, I don't think he read "Jefferson's War".

Walt

This is one grand experiment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/14/lanai-hotels-closed_n_7280326.html
Just think of the small business that will be taking it in the shorts.
But when one has so much money to play with,,, only time will tell.
Lets see what the new charges will be come next year, The cost of "green" is going to be a LOT MORE "green". ( as in big bucks)
Make your reservations now "jon",,

George Rebane

DonB 330pm - I think I gave the answer away in my 1042am ;-)

Ben Emery

George, 16 May 2015 at 05:43 PM

That doesn't answer the question. What would you call a covert military action of a foreign nation on US soil killing people? Would you consider an act of war? Would you consider it a military action?

This is such an open question there is no gotcha involved. Either you believe the US can do what ever it damn well pleases anywhere it wants or you don't, which is it?

Bill Tozer

Oh Ben, we can't do whatever we please in Northern Europe or Austrilia, or even Austria for that matter. They be countries of Western Culture and are full of white folk. Thus, your theory is wrong. We only can do what we please in countries full of ragheads and bush rats. You are only paranoid until proven correct.

Barry Pruett

On a side note to Ben, I spoke with Kelly last week, and he informs me that you are doing much, much better. We are very glad for you and are very pleased that you are well! Way to triumph!

George Rebane

BenE 817pm - I answered your question precisely in my 543pm, we would consider it an act of war - please reread.

Now your second point is so disconnected that I don't understand it well enough to answer it. BTW, to ease your mind as you reformulate, I don't believe in our having any symmetrical qualms with non-state actors who attempt to do us harm while operating out of a third party sovereign nation-state. We should and will pre-emptively attack them whether they be on a friendly nation's (e.g. Iraq, Yemen) soil, or within the boundaries of an unfriendly nation (e.g. Syria).

And I echo BarryP's 914pm; hang in there.

Barry Pruett

Has anyone else seen the movie Selma? Watched with the family this weekend. It was really good.

Bill Tozer

Saudia Arbia has cranked up its efforts to overthrow Assad along with its allies. Assad is Iran's ally, whose biggest trading partner is Russia. If you think Yemen is just a pawn in the Iranian-Saudi power struggle, you are correct. We will rue the day when Assad is gone and some real wingnut ragheads are running amok controling Syria, will make Syria look stable compared to his aftermath, just like what happened to Iraq when Saddam was in power and still had his head attached to his neck.

If you take your eyes off Iran for a second, you are not watching the real power play. Perhaps Obama is a genius for giving Iran Intel to bomb ISIS, Iraq bomb fight ISIS, Syria bomb ISIS, meanwhile arming Jordan and the Saudis, along with Egypt to fight Iran's allies. This Arab vs Persian, Shitte vs Sunni power play means no boots on the ground. So, Iran double crosses us and arms the Taliban. Can't blame them, they have Afganistan on one side of them and Iraq on the other.
Said it before. Bagdad will be the new capital of Iran as Iran becomes the real nuclear threat. Didn't somebody write 2,000 years ago predicting the Persian Empire will rise again? Arm both sides and may the best man win....with no boots on the ground

George Rebane

BarryP 639am - Thanks for the heads up; it's in our que.

BillT 652am - Mr Tozer, this is a good and expanded version of the long held (by some of us) notion that 1)the west is not going to sort out their problems, 2) their culture requires a solution through force, 3) then give them all the guns and grenades they need to do their own sorting, and 4) make peace with the victor(s).

Now if we could only figure out how to keep all that fighting from leaking out and biting us in the ass.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 19 May 2015 at 08:32 AM

Instead of 3) then give them all the guns and grenades they need to do their own sorting, and 4) make peace with the victor(s).


We could just save the money, let them kill each other with knives, rocks and sticks, and then, 4) make peace with the victor(s).

Now if we could only figure out how to keep all that fighting from leaking out and biting us in the ass.


Well there's the rub isn't it. I suppose we could stop importing the 3rd world into the US while we sort out our own issues.....but then that would be like...umm...wasting all those "undocumented democrats"!

Bill Tozer

Ouch, Dr. Rebane and Mr. Fish. I have been bitten on the ass, but never in the ass. Sounds unique, unusual, and perhaps deliciously and most delightfully painful. Much to ponder as I am deep in thought trying to visualize being bitten in the Guteus Maximus, a very large muscle.

Russ Steele

This one is for Steven Frisch and his fellow enviromential travelers.

With bargain gasoline prices putting more money in the pockets of Americans, owners of hybrids and electric vehicles are defecting to sport utility vehicles and other conventional models powered only by gasoline, according to Edmunds.com, an auto research firm.

There are limits, it appears, to how far consumers will go to own a car that became a rolling statement of environmental concern. In 2012, with gas prices soaring, an owner could expect a hybrid to pay back its higher upfront costs in as little as five years. Now, that oft-calculated payback period can extend to 10 years or more.

ooo

In all, 55 percent of hybrid and electric vehicle owners are defecting to a gasoline-only model at trade-in time — the lowest level of hybrid loyalty since Edmunds.com began tracking such transactions in 2011. More than one in five are switching to a conventional sport utility vehicle, nearly double the rate of three years ago.

That one-and-done syndrome coincides with tumbling sales of electric and hybrid vehicles. Through April, sales of electrified models slid to 2.7 percent of the market, down from 3.4 percent over the same period last year, Edmunds.com said. At the same time, sport utility vehicles grabbed 34.4 percent of sales, up from 31.6 percent.

- See more at: http://marginalrevolution.com/#sthash.l9KLqoOl.dpuf

This is surely a set back for Governor Brown who wants to reduce CO2 by increasing the number of EVs on California roads. This was all predictable. All my family members that experimented with hybrids are all back to reliable gas powered vehicles with roof racks, something your could not get on hybrids.

fish

Posted by: Russ Steele | 19 May 2015 at 04:07 PM

Going to interesting to see if this trend reverses itself as gas prices are climbing back up a bit?!

Bill Tozer

Good timing. AAA just announced that the average price per gallon of gasoline is $2.81 nationwide. California took the booby prize for having the highest price per gallon with an average of around $3.81. Within California, LA won the honors with a average price for a gallon of petro at $3.99, with many stations selling now over 4 bucks a gallon.

And some said we would not notice that little gas tax that went into effect this past January to fund the bullet train and low income housing, yet not fill one solitary pothole, straighten nary a crooked lane, nor even restripe the faded paint on one road.
It's all for the poor children in Tanzania who need clean drinking water and the best way to achieve this noble goal is to build low income housing and the Bullet Train. My old beat up vehicle is faster than the current speeding Bullet Train and more economical.

George Rebane

RussS 407pm - I think that Mr Frisch and his "fellow environmental travelers" have known for years that they could not sell a single item off their patent medicine wagon without the government's gun forcing people to become their customers.

Todd Juvinall

Just heard another news report (ABC Radio) on the oil "spill" in Santa Barbara. It is a pipeline rupture not an offshore but the news does not say this. I think we may have a anti-fracking eco terrorist at work/.

Jon

Sure Todd. That lovely oil industry strikes yet again down on the beautiful Santa Barbara coast. But I am sure that Plains All American will provide all sorts of assurances and remind folks of their commitment to a green future.

Todd Juvinall

Jon, my guess is your eco terrorist pals did the deed. They want to remind America of the spill way back when. You libs are so easy.

Jon

Planet Delusional Todd. Wishful thinking in your support of a dirty, greedy industry who cannot maintain their infrastructure. That spill will change the dynamic in Sacramento in regards to oil in our state.

fish

jeffpelline says:

May 20, 2015 at 11:11 am

Now Rebane is pleading with the boneheads who comment on his blog: “Substance, stick to substance!” Trouble is, there is no substance. There never has been.

Reply

Three people heard the bleat of a man to whom nobody pays any attention. I was one of the three.

jeffy haz a sad.

Todd Juvinall

Of course the knee jerk reaction liberal politicians of our state will overreact. They always do. Good press opportunities. Never let a tragedy go to waste they say. I see Jon never disavowed my statement that his pals, the eco terrorists, probably breached the pipes.

Regarding the "dirty business" of oil. My goodness you are so in oneness with the APPLE folks of Nevada City. What a hoot!

Todd Juvinall

Fish, he is lonely and he will stay that way. No one likes him. That is why he is adios from our local newspaper.

Jon

Sure Todd. Opining that terrorists of any sort are "my pals" or the pals of any progressive minded person, is why Kesti has told you what he did about your style.

Dirty Business of Oil is the accepted terms for that industry. of tens of millions of Americans. God when they screw up like this in such a big way, impacting huge amount of tourist and recreation dollars, you cannot even admit it. Its a dirty, dirty business. Just admit it and tell us the truth of how you feel- that promoting oil is worth the dirty externalities, the occasional spill. You're just not that worried about the death of thousands of birds, fish and millions of ocean dwellers? Just say it!

Todd Juvinall

Well Jon, disavow the eco terrorists then. Pretty simple it seems to me.

I don't call the oil business a "dirty" business "jon". It may be dirty as say, building a home might be, you know, in the dirt itself but the results are beautiful. No, you libs eco nuts are simply hypocrites, one and all. Oil is turned into thousands of things like, Hmmm, the plastic in your laptop, the plastic in the smog belching Volvo you drive and many more. I call oil the "savior" of the human race, well after the true savior. It has made life for humans much more bearable and has allowed even people like you, a paid for physiologist for your malaise.

Don Bessee

The sock puppet spews more party line. 'terrorists of any sort are my pals or the pals of any progressive minded person' Seems every convicted eco nut claimed to have acted on a progressive agenda for the betterment of (fill in the blank).

Jon

Todd, eco nut? Mainstream enviro oriented? Yes. My view of the oil spill is the same as most everyone else talking about it today. Also, I hate Volvos and Saabs, especially the belching ones, and have never owned a Suburu or hybrid. And I disavow any act of any eco terrorist, ever.

The entirety of your post above is very funny, I will give you that.

Todd Juvinall

Nobody like oil spills "jonny" But what I find hilarious about you libs is this. You trash the oil companies regardless if there is a spill because for some reason you have allowed yourself to be brainwashed against them and their product. You wail against a spill that might encompass 5 square lies and put some oil on some birds yet when your pals burn down thousands of acres of our forests and kill all those critters, you are silent.

Jon

Quite a stretch there Todd re: forest burning and the early eco-terrorist accusation. Par for the course. Stay tuned on the Santa Barbara spill. Its bigger than 5 square miles.

Todd Juvinall

Jonnie you missed the point. Millions of acres burn and it is your programs that make it happen. Millions of critters die and your eco terrorist groups like the Sierra Club and Earth First sue to keep the burned wood from being logged. The left could care less. But have a little spill and a couple of birds get gooey and you libs go apoplectic.

Jon

Todd, when you talk about the mainstream, moderate Sierra Club as an eco-terrorist group, you lose all credibility. Lets stop the exaggerations. Your opinion about forest management is just that, an opinion. There are many other scientists who disagree with your view.

fish

Annie Fox says:

May 21, 2015 at 7:57 am

Hearing the babble on that station I’m inclined to believe they’re bleach blondes

Reply


C'mon jeffy......how bout a fresh crop of imaginary playmates with whom you can converse for our amusement?

"Annie" is all played out.

Todd Juvinall

The Sierra Club formed a 501-c4 called "Earth Justice" and they sue just about evry tree harvest and free market business dealing with just about any product taken from the natural world. I call them terrorists since the recipients of their attacks usually leave the planet. They are the legal side of Earth First. Your opinion of them is just that "Jon", an opinion.

You are a troll anyway without credibility at all. What a hoot, the troll telling me I have no credibility.

Todd Juvinall

Fish, I think Pelline has lost his noggin. My goodness, a normal, regular man would jump on the bandwagon about the beauty of FOX babes. He must not be "normal"?

Jon

TJ,
You can call anything or anyone a terrorist, but it doesn't make them a terrorist. You just like using it to describe folks that actually value our natural world over greed and profit at any cost. Makes ya feel good, I get it.

Jon

Great example of exaggeration again when you talk about wanting to stop every timber harvest. If you don't like concerned enviro groups using their constitutional rights under our legal system, would you like to propose an alternative?

fish

You can call anything or anyone a terrorist racist, but it doesn't make them a terrorist racist.


I wonder if your progressive minded friends have been made aware of this?

Jon

Todd, serious question-
Do you honestly believe that profit seeking timber and mining outfits would voluntarily set up remediation and reclamation plans on their own, with regulation and legal system checks and balances?

Jon

..without..

Russ Steele

You can read a rebuttal of the President's Climate Speech distortions here:

http://sierrafoothillcommentary.com/2015/05/21/does-the-leader-of-the-free-world-really-know-so-little-about-climate/

fish

Todd, serious question-.......


Todd give him a serious answer in that there are multiple legal avenues to recover damages in the event that a private concern damages the commons.

Those avenues don't involve the formation of new Government Agencies that hire an army of government employees to administer the preparation and documents and all the fees associated with them.

That's probably why the left isn't thrilled with them. Remember there is a legitimate branch of historical scholarship was that the French Revolution was driven as much by the quest for government sinecures as to remedy any oppression by the French government at the time.

Why would we think that our idiot American "rank and file" brethren are any less venal?

Todd Juvinall

Jon you are a troll so I won't debate you any further after this. Terrorist is in the eye of the beholder (you are one of those that says one man's terroist is another freedom fighter). Eco terror to me is your lib ilk causing many towns in the west to become "ghosts" as your legal terrorists have successfully stopped resource extraction. (while you use its results in your computer and house) So your opinion is different than mine, good for you.

I suggest you review the Federal Organic Act of 1897.

Soper Wheeler and many other private companies do a great job of managing their forest ownerships. You can see when the fires burn the forest the fire does not burn theirs. It is profit and true concern for the environment that drives these companies. They should be given the ownership and management of what the Forest Service has and you would see a truly beautiful forest.

George Rebane

Jon, IMHO the Sierra Club is indeed a terrorist organization in that it can bring its considerable wealth and collective clout to bear through our corrupt justice system on an individual or small enterprise that does not have the financial resources to oppose such practiced onslaught - even the contemplation of such suits is terrifying. Similar types of social terror is also threatened by big corporations on smaller entities to limit competition or gain market share.

And yes, corporations that depend on harvesting natural resources for their income and survival do indeed support regulations that promote the long term sustenance of such resources. You see, it's a profit maintenance thing.

George Boardman

This is breaking the thread, but the following story makes me wonder about conservative claims that they are the true defenders of our Constitution, particularly the part about the separation of powers:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/kansas-lawmakers-budget-move-links-court-funding-to-court-decisions-1432067876?KEYWORDS=kansas+legislature

Jon

Dr. R,
I do not agree that Sierra Club has targeted individuals or small time enterprise (mom and pop) in the vision you are painting of nailing the little guy. Yes, of course the various state and federal regulators may target these people if they violate the law. The Sierra Club obviously does not have unlimited resources, and focuses its projects and actions against impactful large scale organizations who can bring equal or greater resources to bear. Chevron, ExxonMobil or Shell, with their billions and its army of lawyers are not exactly cowering under the supposed overwhelming power of the advocacy of the Sierra Club.

George Rebane

GeorgeB 1125am - Perhaps you are confusing state constitutions with our federal Constitution. In the federalism left us by the Founders, Kansas can damn well do what it wants in the cases such as you cite. Now I understand if you are no great fan of federalism which does seem to be eschewed by the Left.

Jon 1147am - While agreeing with you on the big cases, the Sierra Club has no problem acting as the 'people's enforcement arm' for federal bureaucracies like the EPA, Fish and Wildlife, ... .

Jon

Regarding public sentiment about the disastrous SB spill,
You cannot blame enviros for the fallout on this one. The vast majority of people of all political stripes are frankly pissed off about these spills, and the local business folks from the So. Central Coast region are pissed off about the impact on their business for many months to come, right as we go into the tourist season.

George Rebane

Jon 1154am - I feel your pain, but perhaps in a different part of my body. Have you and yours considered what a tremendously large, complex, and partially known infrastructure system undergirds America, and makes our quality of life possible? Does anyone understand the statistics that define the tails of natural distributions of, say, the integrity of the thousands upon thousands of miles of conduits carrying all manner fluids that pass beneath our feet and our shores? Does anyone understand what small fraction of failures we have witnessed in recent years? Are we demanding perfection and at what cost to ourselves are dunning those who fall short?

Todd Juvinall

GeorgeB, as a conservative I am PO'd that a court can toss the decisions of the voters and their legislators as they have done on homosexual marriage. Who gives them the final say? Other than the Marbury v Madison where the SCOTUS decided it was the final arbiter of "constitutionality" (yep they did Dredd Scott) I find no where in the US Constitution a "final arbiter" "right" of the court. It has actually morphed into its present form by the legislatures not taking the courts to task for what I deem their usurpation of the people's rights.

No one likes oil spills but but the left seems to like forests burning down. The left does not seem to have the same outrage when thousands of acres and its critters are toasted. Why is that I wonder? I blame the terrorist Sierra Club etal and their terrorist legal arm, the EarthJustice yapper lawyers for a lot of the destruction we see in our once national treasures called forests.

Jon

Yet another one of the inane Todd comments- the left seems to like forests burning down and toasting critters. Who is on the LEFT has said that they like these things?

There are wide varieties of opinions on forest management. For example, no problem with proportional and proper logging operations where proper studies have been done and consensus achieved. needed. The US forest service certainly has projects going. But as to issues such as logging every last remaining stump or woody particle of the Rim Fire territory, there is no clear consensus. Many scientists say that more damage than good will be achieved.

Todd Juvinall

The left has implemented policies and laws and lawsuits that have left the forests in a mess. You can't deny it. But as a lib troll you do. You need to get educated about these topics since you appear very ignorant.

Don Bessee

no problem, proportional, proper, proper.....consensus ..... which really means delay, obscure and obfuscate resulting in nothing.

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