Sandbox - 1jun15

[New month, new sandbox.  The 30may15 sandbox seems to have turned into a kitty litter box with all the congealed poop balls flying back and forth.  Perhaps the participants there will want to retain that venue for continuing those enthusiastic labors and use this new one for more edifying discourse.  I for one am interested in what readers think about the Patriot Act's renewal and the trade-offs between our liberties and security.  gjr]

Comments

[George Rebane]

Administrivia - Dear readers, I invite your attention to the 2jun15 update to the latest Ruminations. Time to get worried?
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2015/05/ruminations-30may15.html

[Walt]

WOW!! "O" now claims to be Jewish!(??) " I'm the closest thing to a Jew that's ever held the office"
Yup,, Bill called it. Alfred E. Newman is right.

[Paul Emery]

My contention is aimed at anyone who thinks there is a significant difference in either political party when it comes to the big issues. My overall belief that historically government is not the friends of the people but rather the agent of the ruling class. Political parties are just an ornamental display to make people think there is a difference.

[Ben Emery]

Let the Patriot Act and all other civil liberty destroying DHS associated policies be ended. DHS is nothing but a cronyism give away to military complex with the facade of security attached to it.

[fish]

Posted by: Ben Emery | 02 June 2015 at 03:47 PM

2 for 2 this week Ben!

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 June 2015 at 03:45 PM

...and yet you still seem to think the "single payer health care" is a good idea!

That's some absolutely first rate cognitive dissonance there Paul!

[Don Bessee]

I think much of those bible tales all hocus pocus anyway. @2:33 How literate.

[Account Deleted]

from jon - "Not sure I see where he separated good rich people from bad rich people."
You've got it backwards, jon. He doesn't care how much or how little money you have. He does care whether you are good or bad. Period. The poor have the same exact responsiblity to honor God and follow the 10 Commandments as the wealthy. The entire point Jesus made was that you are personally responsible to do right no matter what the circumstances of your life. No grading on the curve. No sliding scale for income differences. Free market capitalism is perfectly in line with the teachings of Christ. There are many examples.
I really am fascinated by the hatred you have for the Koch bros. What laws have they broken? What have they done to you?

[fish]

Progressive faction on progressive faction cannibalism......good day for me to be a misanthrope!

"But already we're moving on. Personally, if I were to undergo "gender reassignment", I would wish to emerge as a beautiful, desirable womanly woman. But Marc Lamont Hill, Distinguished Professor of African-American Studies at Morehouse College and host of "Our World with Black Enterprise", will have no truck with that:

Between the Vanity Fair spread and "she's so pretty" convos, we've smuggled in the same old cis/Eurocentric narratives about womanhood.

Scaramouche's trans poster girl may be more to Professor Lamont Hill's taste. But, for what it's worth, Gabriel Paul agreed with him:

@Jewles@marclamonthill Well now we need to have a conversation on respectability &white privilege in the framing of TransLives in that case

Miss Ann Thrope (possibly not her real name) responded:

@marclamonthill so true. Money bought that beauty - plain and simple. It's not that way for less advantaged trans ppl.

So ObamaCare ought to cover Vanity Fair-level industrial-strength airbrushing by mandating not just gender reassignment but totally smokin' gender reassignment. But wait a minute, isn't referring to "less advantaged trans ppl" buying into the cis/Eurocentric white-privilege narrative of denying transpeople the right to transition into dumpy unattractive women?

Fortunately, Juliana showed up to point out that the African-American Studies guy had committed the ultimate act of cisgenderist sexism:

@marclamonthill She chose to do the spread. Sorry, we cis folks don't get to tell trans people how to present themselves to the world.

You can get whiplash trying to follow the strictures of identity politics. Like I said, the GOP should nominate Miss Jenner, just to mess with Democrat heads."

http://www.steynonline.com/6988/deathbed-eurocentrism-and-rampant-ciscentrism

[fish]

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 02 June 2015 at 04:02 PM

I really am fascinated by the hatred you have for the Koch bros. What laws have they broken? What have they done to you?

They serve the same role as "Emmanuel Goldstein" did in "1984" a focus for progressive hate and exemplar of evil in the progressive political narrative!

[fish]

Wow...we are all "Emmanuel Goldstein" when the government desperately needs revenue!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/sen-whitehouse-d-ri-suggests-using-rico-laws-global-warming-skeptics_963007.html

[Jon]

Scott,
And that's exactly why there is a progressive/liberal branch of Christianity that totally disagrees with you and the conservative wing as they read the same book. Ah, religion.

The Kochs and other billionaires have done plenty to corrupt the electoral process in the USA, more than it has ever been corrupted in the history of our nation. Millions of others agree.

[Don Bessee]

With the reports from some states of 30-40% increases in obama care premiums being proposed to ensure solvency the last of the big lies will be clearly exposed. Keep your plan (no not really, just kidding), keep your doctor (oopsie didn't really mean that), I will lower your premiums, (for a little bit anyway). Now if the Supremes come down on 0care we will see some fancy footwork to try and make us forget the promises. Pelosi was right, it just took a few years to really know what was in the bill. Any prognostications on how the Supremes are going rule and how it will play next Nov.?

[Todd Juvinall]

Jonnie never answers our questions. Must be a Paul Emery troll/puppet.

The Koch brothers are really great patriotic Americans and they put their money where their mouth id. To protect the individual liberties of all. I guess jonnie is against liberty and those that actually try to maintain it. My guess is he is a "commissar" in his soul (oops, I mean if he has one).

The Bible is a sacred book and both Christians and Jews believe in it as the WORD of GOD. You can liberalize I suppose but the bottom line is faith. jonnie has none and Paul Emery prays to the Stonehenge Druids. To each their own.

[Paul Emery]

Fish

Single payer is the best system currently in use in many parts of the world. It is way better than the mess we have now and the nothingness that came before. What "system" do you propose or should we just let people without medical means suffer and die? ? Romney just believed we should send everyone without insurance to the emergency room. That's the best the pubbers came up with. What's your best idea?

[Don Bessee]

Well that is just so convincing- 'Millions of other agree' LOL!

[George Rebane]

Wow, the wait for a liberal to answer substance with substance gives new meaning to 'eternity' - for an example see jon's 427pm.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 June 2015 at 05:02 PM

I have no solution. Neither do you. Nevertheless I'm endlessly entertained at your railing at those aspects of government that you hate, corruption, cronyism, etc. but when it comes to the prospect of government run health care those concerns simply flit away....conditions impossible to imagine and blissfully forgotten in the glow of some Paul Emery conceived Frank Capra film branded American version of the NHS.

I'll make to you the same suggestion I did when you were crowing about your trip to Portland, "....a well managed, very progressive city".....move to where the food is.

If you want GovCare emigrate.

[Todd Juvinall]

So single payer is just dandy eh? Britain is now in the throes of an overhaul becasue it is BKing them. Paul Emery, for a guy that dislikes political parties (in which a person is free to join or not)you want every single American to be forced join the "single payer boogie"! Wow, now that is truly a cognitive imbalance!

[George Rebane]

PaulE 502pm - For some years in these pages I have tried to educate liberals (and you) about the travails of European single payer health care systems. The response to factual attributes about such systems has been answered by the usual progressive cricket platoons. You never answer substance with substance. For the nth time, please google 'status of Scandinavian single payer health care systems' and respond to what you read there about 1) the quality of service they deliver, 2) their current financial travails, and 3) their long term sustainability. Our under-informed liberals continue to sing the socialist song of guaranteed fiscal disaster - and 'they haven't hit bottom yet' is not a viable policy proposition.

[Bill Tozer]

Dr. Rebane. Might I suggest you gently nudge readers to the excellent post "Medicaid, the Growing Morass" since we are on single payer once again. Medicaid is indeed single payer and it is not the recipient that is paying. The reader will also be delighted to find excellent comments.

Mr. Walt, can't remember or say what kind of trail it was that fateful night. It was bright, the object much much bigger than an airplane, smaller than the moon, slower that a asteroid, faster and brighter than a big ole jetliner coming to carry me away., About the size of your middle fingernail held up 2 feet away. What kind of gas? Silent but deadly? Well, it didn't have a blue flame when lit with a match if that is what you be inquiring about. Gotta wait for camping trips to play that game. Happened too quick, yet moved slowly. I was star struck. Maybe it was just NASA working on the Muslim World's self esteem. Priorities you know.

[Account Deleted]

"The Kochs and other billionaires have done plenty to corrupt the electoral process in the USA, more than it has ever been corrupted in the history of our nation."
Oh - for the good ol' days of Tammany Hall. All was clean as the driven snow.
You have said absolutely nothing, jon.
Last time I checked, folks of all stripes can run and I can vote for anyone I want. Specifics, please. Laws broken? What and whom have been corrupted? Are you saying the Kochs elected Obama?
I never tire of asking this question. Since you claim they buy votes, how much did you get? Always crickets. To paraphrase Lenny Bruce - 'I didn't get a nickel'!
As far as some Christians who 'read the same book' - I would say they need to read the whole book. You don't get to pick and choose. If you do that, you're just making it up. Please tell me where in the Bible free market capitalism is denounced.

[Account Deleted]

George at 5:45 - Let's not forget the part lawyers play in the Euro health care system. As in - nowhere. Cut the wrong leg off? Ach - vell, mistakes happen ya know! Here's a free wheelchair and a voucher for a free sh*t-box in the ghetto to live in for life! By-ee!
How much do Euro-docs pay for insurance? Crickets, crickets and more crickets.
You want Euro-care? First - start paying a lot more taxes. Now. It's all part of B Sanders lifting up of the middle class. Just think - the unemployed guy next door pouring alcohol down his throat daily gives you the big thumbs up for the liver transplant you just paid for. Pretty cool!
And the kiosks in Mexico City to sign up the next wave of illegals for American free health care when they hit the sands of Huntington Beach will have Dem party sign-ups to boot! No wonder the Army is practicing hitching rides in horse trailers. How many countries have a plethora of horse trailers?

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. fish. I cannot believe my eyes when I read that Caitlyn came out of the closet as a....a....Republican and was forgiven!!! Say it is not true. Sure, money bought that beauty, but being forgiven for committing the unforgivable sin is plum unheard of in the open minded circles of progressivism A Republican (and a nice firm smoking one at that) is Forgiven! for her political preferences by libholes. How big of them.. Fact is stranger than fiction.

[Walt]

Well now. Seems Ca. is now filthy rich!
Health care for illegals is now moving right along.
http://www.californiahealthline.org/articles/2015/4/16/calif-senate-committee-oks-bill-for-undocumented-health-coverage
What happened to the law against that, we the people of the state passed? ( yup,, just write another)

[Bill Tozer]

Well, this raghead won't cost us a dime in Medicaid expenses no mo. One down, a truckload more to go. It's for the children. Dead ragheads also leave no carbon footprint...or at the very least, reduce their carbon footprint for a long long time. That is a good thing.

http://news.yahoo.com/boston-police-officer-shoots-kills-possible-terror-suspect-175503467--abc-news-topstories.html;_ylt=A0SO8z6dXG5VzZQAP07BGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTEyM3RxajlxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAxNzZfMQRzZWMDc2M-

[George Rebane]

ScottO 627pm - Good point about our lawyers and corrupt tort system. I should have also mentioned that as I have before. But you are right, trying to build single payer healthcare on our current legal system is like ordering the Titanic to flank speed as it heads for the iceberg.

[Walt]

Good story Bill,, but I also saw the story on the six legged chicken on that page.
The first person to get me one of those, I will BBQ to your liking. It will just fit my cooker. Now there is a GMO I can sink my teeth into. KFC should be proud. Not sueing.

[Walt]

Hay Todd!! Do you ever go by Zack? No wonder that car with the tripod on top turned around.
http://www.ncscooper.com/area-man-stalks-bing-streetside-camera-carexposes-himself/

[Todd Juvinall]

Hay Walt, nope that wasn't me. Maybe Pelline's sock puppet? Could be Jon or Joe though they seem to be more the kind. LOL!

[Walt]

OK ,,, just check'n. I didn't know if you needed a witness in court.

[Jon]

Hay Don,
Yes, millions of Americans oppose the Koch Brothers and their attempt to sway legislation to their benefit.

[Walt]

But they are more than happy with Warren buffet and George Soros doing just that.
Right "jon"? It's fine and dandy. So... How many oil trains owned by Buffet have fallen off the tracks? It's because of HIS influence that tank car standards have not been raised.. " Just TOO expensive, and would cut into his profits". ( Yaa.. look into that)
In the mean time, what's a few towns getting fried in oil fires?

[George Rebane]

Jon 744pm - I can't believe that you think citing "millions of Americans oppose the Koch Brothers" is any kind of substantial reply to the question of what things illegal, immoral, or fattening have those two extremely generous capitalists done to deserve your opprobrium. But I suppose the liberal mind is what it is.

[Todd Juvinall]

Jonnie, please supply us the proof of your last statement. Millions hate the Koch Brothers? Wow! Or is that just liberal hyperbole? You people are too funny! Prepare yourselves for a Rep blowout in 2016.

[Jon]

Todd, can you read? Millions OPPOSE the Koch Brothers and their money used in elections. Where is the word HATE?
300 million people in this country. I stick with my comment. But best of luck with your pick in 2016 as well! Your track record appears stellar.
LOL.

[George Rebane]

re Jon 821pm - for the more even-handed reader I draw their attention to Jon's crickets replying to my 808pm. It was much more important to divert by pointing out ToddJ's 811pm misquote, than to tackle the toughie that would deposit egg-on-face. And so goes the conversation between the poles.

[Don Bessee]

So a million morons agree and we should all just agree too because your ilk say so??? Go tell it to 0, harry reid and peolosi, they love smoke being blown up their rear. Your trolling is on par with the chili fry fueled fue. What ever you are. Talking points and no demonstrable knowledge is always a formula for failure as you keep finding out.

[Walt]

And totally ignore the facts (yes facts) about the Lefty billionaires.
Millions? Got a poll you can reference? It right up there with "FOX LIES!!" ( but can't name one lie) Come on "joe",, I'm sure you can find SOME manufactured data,, Try Mother Jones?
But some good news for ya',, Old man Sanders is beating Hillary with her broom in the polls. But the bad news is anyone on the Right running is leaving him in the dust.
LIBS got nothing without the independent vote. I have yet to see many Independents bowing to Socialism. They are not to hip with Sanders and his 80% taxation idea.
You care to cough up 80% of your taxable income? DO tell...

[Walt]

Uh,,, "jon"... Sorry to pee on your leg,, but you asked for it.
I did a search on your claim,, " million oppose the Koch bros." and,,,, Nuttn.. ZILCH,Nadda, Nyet. In plain English,, Bullshit.
Better luck next time.

[Don Bessee]

Its a sad day for the jon-joe-jeffys of the world. Since Verizon is buying AOL who is the parent for HuffPo it is being reported that Queen Huff is heading into the sunset. Poor babies, first it was Al 'the sky has fallen' Gore's TV channel and now the Queen Huff, where will they go for drivel, distortion and disinformation? I know there are plenty of other deluded dunderheads who can parrot the party line but how many icons can they afford to loose from an emotional and self-esteem standpoint? ;-)

[Paul Emery]

George, Fish
My friends in Denmark have no complaints about their health care system. In Denmark health care facilities are part of the infrastructure like highways and bridges. The system is maintained and updated as necessary. That's just one example. George, the tort system in Denmark virtually eliminates malpractice lawsuits as is the case in most national health care systems..

We have a fundamental difference in values here which I can accept as irreparable. I believe adequate health care is the responsibility of a modern culture and you believe it should be a natural part of capitalist economy. What happens to those not insured or financially enabled to purchase necessary health care under your vision is anybody's guess. As I said, Romney, the last Repub offering said let them go to the emergency rooms. Is that shat you consider a solution?

George, your draconian predictions as to the ultimate economic devastation for those states that have national health care is just that, your opinion. So far history has shown that not to be true. That prediction would include EVERY country in the modern world because all countries have national health care of some kind except the most poor and desperate. You speak of it as a fact but it is not, it is only your theory and nothing else since it has yet to happen. Even contemporary Conservative leaders such as Tony Abbott of Australia embrace and support their national health care system never once saying it should be scrapped or abandoned though he recommends some changes that have provento be unpopular

Here's a list of all the countries in the world that George believes are going to go bankrupt soon.

Contents

1 Africa
2 Asia
2.1 Bhutan
2.2 Hong Kong
2.3 India
2.4 Israel
2.5 Macau
2.6 People's Republic of China
2.7 Singapore
2.8 Taiwan
2.9 Thailand
3 Europe
3.1 Austria
3.2 Denmark
3.3 Finland
3.4 France
3.5 Germany
3.6 Greece
3.7 Guernsey / Jersey
3.8 Iceland
3.9 Ireland
3.10 Isle of Man
3.11 Italy
3.12 Luxembourg
3.13 Netherlands
3.14 Norway
3.15 Romania
3.16 Russia and Soviet Union
3.17 Serbia
3.18 Sweden
3.19 Switzerland
3.20 United Kingdom
3.20.1 England
3.20.2 Northern Ireland
3.20.3 Scotland
3.20.4 Wales
4 North America
4.1 Canada
4.2 Cuba
4.3 Mexico
4.4 Trinidad and Tobago
4.5 United States
5 South America
5.1 Argentina
5.2 Brazil
5.3 Chile
5.4 Colombia
5.5 Peru
6 Oceania
6.1 Australia
6.2 New Zealand
.

[Walt]

"Jon".. Taking notes on BS from Geraldo?
"Geraldo later denied that guns are used by law-abiding citizens to stop crimes. He asked fellow host Eric Bolling, “When was the last time you heard of a civilian stopping a crime with a gun?”
The full story here.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/02/geraldo-vince-vaughn-sounds-like-timothy-mcveigh-defending-gun-rights/

Actually,, there is a story I read today about a citizen with a gun stopping a crime YESTERDAY. ( and the day before,, and the day before that,,,)

[Don Bessee]

PE- Based on balance sheets many are already or just one hiccup away.

[Todd Juvinall]

Actually "jonnie" millions love the Koch brothers. My goodness you certainly are a dufus troll. LOL!

[Paul Emery]

Let me know when it happens Don (the hicckup). For most nations health care is a much smaller part of their GDP. We top them all at 17.1% which it has been for years. Here are the numbers if you want to check them out. Looks like we'll be the first to go. Denmark is 10.6 for example

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS

[Paul Emery]

This is beyond hilarious. You cannot invent someone like Santorum, Talking about the Pope he says:

"Santorum described himself as a "huge fan" of the pope and said he appreciates the pontiff's commitment to family issues, but he wants the church to stay out of science.

“The church has gotten it wrong a few times on science, and I think that we probably are better off leaving science to the scientists and focusing on what we're really good at, which is theology and morality,” Santorum said. "When we get involved with political and controversial scientific theories, I think the church is not as forceful and credible."

I mean give me a break! Catholics believe the Pope has a direct line to the guy in the sky and Santorum says bug out of it I know more than you do. Unreal hypocrisy!!!

[Paul Emery]

link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/02/rick-santorum-pope-climat_n_7498768.html

[Don Bessee]

Back to the original point, our costs are inflated by sharks and insurance costs. Thanks for the confirmation. Your distraction to that factoid evades the larger issue. Which one of those countries you are pointing to have a budget surplus? We collect more taxes in the US than ever and like CA just look for more ways to spend it. That's not Sustainable.

[Bill Tozer]

Paul, I just glanced at the first two countries on your list of countries that have some form of national healthcare.
What is up with #1?? And what is up with progressives calling Africa a country lately? Must be something in the bottled water. #2 on the list of countries is Asia. Hmmm.
Oh, I get it now. It took a moment to get your joke. See, you do have a sense of humor. Good one. Almost had me fooled. Africa and Asia are countries. Funny man. Maybe a Common Core question in the future. Where is the country of Africa? Paul, you got me rolling with that one.

[fish]

I mean give me a break! Catholics believe the Pope has a direct line to the guy in the sky and Santorum says bug out of it I know more than you do. Unreal hypocrisy!!!

Oh Paul.....I'm sure that if the Pope said, "Be not concerned with the material world" in reference to the climate change hoax you would have said something to the effect, "I mean give me a break! Catholics believe the Pope has a direct line to the guy in the sky so think they know more than scientists do. Now were letting a corrupt religious institution set public policy for the world? Unreal hypocrisy!!!

[fish]

I might be wrong about government run health care Paul.....I mean the federal school lunch programs have been having an unbroken string of successes since Michelle Obama involved herself! A testament as to just what one woman can accomplish when she sets her mind to it!

http://eagnews.org/its-heartbreaking-denver-school-board-members-get-a-taste-of-michelle-o-lunches/

[fish]

Was there really ever any doubt as to why President Bunny was so determined to import the needy, unskilled and unproductive to America?

Lever pullers for Team Democrat....!

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/the-supreme-courts-big-data-problem-118568.html#.VW8QI2DscXA

[Ben Emery]

Fish,
Let me push it and try to get the streak to 3.

Phasing out of the federal income tax by abolishing the Federal Reserve.

[fish]

Posted by: Ben Emery | 03 June 2015 at 07:39 AM

How do you square this attempt at extending our "agreement streak" with your earlier statement that during the last financial crisis the "too big to fail" banks needed to be bailed out? The primary reason for the existence of the Federal Reserve is to protect the banking cartel.

No Federal Reserve no financial protection for the big banks.

[Account Deleted]

We have national health care - ever hear of the VA? They have a marvelous track record. Don't they, Paul? And Medicare? What a wonderful single payer system - if you can find a doctor.
Paul claims nationalised health care is wonderful because his friends say so. Well - my friends from Canada and England don't think so.
That's because they have sampled both systems.
We do need to make quite a few changes in health care. Get the lawyers out. Make the govt pay docs and hospitals full freight for the services it mandates on them. Make the govt reimburse private employers for the time and trouble of tax collecting for health care. End the waste and fraud in workmans comp and govt run health care systems. As long as the public doesn't see that they have any skin in the game, most will abuse the system - hey, it's free, who cares!

[fish]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 02 June 2015 at 06:33 PM

Mr. fish. I cannot believe my eyes when I read that Caitlyn came out of the closet as a....a....Republican and was forgiven!!!

Tells you just where "she" sits in the progressive hierarchy of victimology. It's funny too.....once you scratch the surface he/she is "just another privileged white guy" with a really expensive hobby!

[Ben Emery]

Fish,
I have never said in any company that the banks should have been bailed out.

[George Rebane]

re PaulE's 937pm - This continues a well-circled barn. The list presented is ludicrous when comparing the availability and quality of healthcare in the US. But the socialists (here PaulE is definitely a socialist) are ever pointing out the northern EU countries as implementing their heartthrob healthcare systems.

Unfortunately, a closer examination reveals that all them have problems in that they are lowering the quality and range of services provided, and all of them are unsustainable. A government program is unsustainable when its funding makes up an increasing percentage of the national budget - a truth obvious to all but the most determined of progressives. For an example of single payer healthcare we need look no further than our own Medicare and Medicaid programs as was covered here.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2015/06/medicaid-the-growing-morass.html

[Ben Emery]

I am 100% against the big banks and believe they need to be broken up and we need to reinsert Glass Steagall.

Here was my position in 2010 and is basically the same today but possibly with more emphasis on holding big banks accountable and breaking them up.

On October 3, 2008, President George W. Bush signed into law the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008. Also known as the Bank Bailout Bill, the president and the lobbyists from the financial sector pushed hard to get this bill passed, and quickly.

In the fall of 2008 our financial sector brought the United States of America and the world economies to the brink of collapse. We still haven’t recovered. The U.S. taxpayers bailed out the major banks in hope of preventing a total collapse and so the lending banks would start investing in the productive economy, to fuel an economic recovery. Instead these banks are receiving taxpayer-financed 0% interest loans through the Federal Reserve and investing in Government Bonds that have a 3% return on investment. In the process they have given themselves billions of dollars in bonuses. In 2009 the 40 largest banks, a few thousand individuals, gave themselves $148,000,000,000 (billion) in bonuses.
Both the Republican and Democratic Parties receive huge amounts of bribe/campaign contributions from the financial industry and have failed to pass any meaningful legislation to get this reckless behavior in check. In fact, the banks that were bailed out are now even bigger than before the crisis began. Why aren’t people being charged and convicted of crimes throughout this whole ordeal? It is because the lobbying efforts and the corruption of our government officials have made everything they are doing legal.
Some numbers
Wells Fargo
JP Morgan Chase
Bank of America
Citigroup
These four banks manage and control:
§ 50% of mortgages in America
§ 66% of credit cards in America
An accumulated $7,400,000,000,000 (trillion) in assets, which is around half of the U.S. gross domestic product (GDP)
Since no structural reform has been applied to our financial sector, these banks will fail again and the United States will not have the ability to bail them out, AGAIN.
What happens to our country then?
The largest six banks in our economy went from having 17% of GDP in total assets in the mid 1990s to having 63% of GDP in total assets in 2010.
Solutions for the short term and long term
• Enforcement of Sherman Anti-Trust Laws upon banks that are “too big to fail”
• Interest rate credit card cap
• Open the books up to the Federal Reserve
• Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, separating lending banks and investment banks. FDIC insured money can no longer be gambled with investment banks
• Repealing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act 1999
• Repeal the Commodities and Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (so called Enron loophole)
Proposed Legislation That I Support
• S. 2746. This bill addresses the concept of "Too Big to Fail" with respect to certain financial entities and would help enforce the Sherman Anti-Trust Laws.
• H.R. 2424. The Federal Reserve Credit Facility Act of 2009 would authorize the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to audit the Federal Reserve
• H.R. 4191. Let Wall Street Pay for the Restoration of Main Street Act of 2009 (STET tax of 0.25% transaction fee on Wall Street to help control speculation and bubble economies)
• S.2914. United States Employer Ownership Bank Act (this would begin to create federal incentives for employer-owned banks or state-owned banks)
S. 582 Interest Rate Reduction Act ( A bill to amend the Truth in Lending Act to protect consumers from usury or in other words high interest rates and for other purposes)

[fish]

From an exchange we had last October.

It really is business shooting themselves in the foot over the long run due to workers not earning enough money to sustain our economy and the ability to borrow against future wages this economy will sputter and fizzle out.

Agree with the first part of your statement....disagree with the second part (partially). This will be a bigger factor going forward especially with the trend towards automation.

We are in the sputtering stages at the moment and the next crash with be the fizzle out stage since we as a country no longer have the ability to bail ourselves out with more debt. We had the perfect scenario to do so in 2008 but we decided to bail out irresponsible banking/ financial industry and then gave out huge tax breaks with the stimulus package that was about 1/3 of the size needed to get our outdated and failing infrastructure up to 21st century standards.

Again...agree with the first part of your statement....disagree with the second part. The next time will be worse....I suspect much worse. But let's be honest Ben, you yourself argued for this bailout!

From RL's Blog

fish says:

September 28, 2014 at 9:19 am

But Ben it’s the disagreements that are so much more interesting. If I wanted that I could have joined “jeffys furious affirmation society”….no thanks!

You posted something once at Rebanes that always puzzled me….a Nader quote that said, in essence.

“Capitalism will never fail because Socialism will always rescue it”

Why would socialism bail out a system that it considers so egregiously flawed?

Reply

Ben Emery says:

September 28, 2014 at 10:02 am

Fish,

Because everyday people will suffer if it does not act.

Ben Emery says:

September 28, 2014 at 10:08 am

oops it should have read

Fish,

“Why would socialism bail out a system that it considers so egregiously flawed?”

-Because everyday people will unduly suffer if it does not act.-

I will add, the predatory form of capitalism we find ourselves in today understands this fully. This is why big industry will take such huge risks. I believe we need to remove the security of limited liability from those who sit atop large institutions/ industry. In a 24 month period BP killed over two dozen people with their negligence and nobody went to jail, this is not justice in any way shape of form.

fish says:

September 28, 2014 at 10:20 am

So your argument is that we must sustain a flawed system that leftist social theorists say must fail eventually because “people will unduly suffer if it doesn’t act”.

I find your argument circular….if this is how it must be so people don’t suffer unduly then how can you criticize it? The predatory capitalist system is in ascendence. Enabled and maintained by progressive politicians and social policies. I don’t recall any of this coming to pass in what little leftist political literature I’ve read?

So you say that these bailouts needed to happen to mitigate "suffering"

Now I won't lump you in with those who identify as "progressive" who support the democrats since you self identify as a Green/Socialist. But socialist theory requires that a critical phase like the one presented to the democrats in 2007-2008 is necessary to usher in change and yet with a fully democratic legislature and with control of the executive branch and with the whip hand (the ability to bail out these financial institutions...or not) we didn't do so and find ourselves back in a similar set of conditions as those in place nearly eight years ago.

How exactly do you plan on getting to socialism if you won't accept a little suffering? I was all for letting the banks fail, liquidating their assets and arresting and prosecuting the bankers for their criminal activity. Letting the "chips fall where they may" as it were.

Remind me again why you consider me a fascist.

Posted by: fish | 19 October 2014 at 03:52 AM

[Ben Emery]

George, 03 June 2015 at 08:22 AM

What you are doing is taking a page from the two major parties and confusing the issues we are talking about.

Paul is talking about health care system and you're talking health care. Big difference between the two.

1) Access to health care no matter how primitive is better than having no access to the best health care in the world.

2) It is very debatable whether health care in Scandinavian countries is inferior to the US health care. Possibly in specialty medical fields but for overall treatment it is very comparable.

3) Every human being on the planet will get hurt or ill at some point making health care a basic human necessity.

4) In my case I had full insurance and ability to pay deductibles/ copays but still was put on a 8 week wait list for a colonoscopy. After 5 weeks of not eating since my colon was 90% plus blocked by a tumor I finally got a emergency/ urgent colonoscopy, which lasted less than 5 minutes because the scope could not get passed the tumor.

5) What makes you think our health care SYSTEM is sustainable or functional?

[Walt]

Hay Paul. I got shoved into the VA system by Ca. because I was a VET at some point in my life. The last time I needed to see a doc, it took me 3.5 months "to wait in line".
On top of that I have to go to Reno.
Needed to have a surgical procedure done, and was on the table of 3 hours. When they were done, gave me a handful of tylenol 3 and sent me home. Anywhere else, I would have stayed in the hospital for observation at least. Call it a step above civil war surgery.
I was better off with the insurance I had prior to government meddling. Now I even scare little kids with the scares that are left. Hence the face hair.
My advice to you is, keep your trap shut on matters you don't have a clue about.
Now the state is going to give illegals better care than I get.

[Ben Emery]

Jesus Fish,
In no way was I advocating the bailout of the big banks, you really have to stretch what was being said into something you want to believe. Calling for action doesn't mean supporting TARP or the Bail Outs.

- What should have happened is the banks should have been broken up and allowed to fail.

- US federal government and state governments across the US should have started public owned banks with low interest rates so people could stay in their primary residents. 80% of sub prime loans were predatory and a majority of those loans were given to people who qualified for prime loans but were sold a bag of goods from the banks, who are supposed to be the experts. Secondary properties should have been left to the sharks to feast on.

[Ben Emery]

George,
To clarify my 8 week wait list, all the tests trying to figure out what was going on came back negative for cancer. All the doc's were certain it was Ulcerative Colitis(UC). I kept telling them I could feel something internally on the left side pretty low in the digestive tract and they kept lumping it in UC camp and I was told not to worry about it. I was denied a CT Scan for weeks that would have determined it to be something much more serious than UC. Every step of the way the doctors offices and surgeon's had to look up my insurance coverage to determine what strategies and treatments they would offer me. Once the strategy based on economics not outcomes was put in place the fights with the insurance company's started to actually cover the treatments. Sometimes we got what the doctors ordered but more times than not it would have to be modified and some times just outright denied.

Our system is the most complex and about twice as expensive as the next developed nation on the list because of it. The Public/ Private relationship works in some cases but is the recipe for corruption and fraud that plagues our health care system.

[George Boardman]

Industrialized nations with single-payer health care spend less of their GDP on medical care than we do, and their citizens live longer lives than we do.

All of the medical advances pioneered in the U. S. are terrific, but only if you can afford to get access to them.

[Paul Emery]

George

Once again our fundamental difference is that I believe health care for all should be part of our infrastructure, you believe it can be handled by the capitalist free enterprise system. Again I ask you provide me one example of a non subsidized free enterprise health care system anywhere in the world to illustrate your viewpoint.

Your view does condemn all of the countries in my 9:37 to bankruptcy, quite a scope I must add. (ignore the Continent listings)

Fish writes

"Now were letting a corrupt religious institution set public policy for the world? Unreal hypocrisy!!!

You completely miss the point of what I wrote. Santorum claims and campaigns as a Catholic yet wants to dictate the Popes agenda. That about does it for the Catholic vote which will dip him below 2% in the polls. Talking about Santorum as a serious candidate is just comic relief anyway so who cares.

[George Rebane]

BenE 902am - First, I have never maintained that our polyglot healthcare system combining public/private providers under hideous tort laws and insurance companies trying to make a profit is sustainable. We do need to reform our healthcare markets, but not through a demonstrably more unsustainable socialist single-payer system.

The travails you describe on your encounters with our healthcare are not unique to the US. In single-payer countries the state places very definite and often byzantine rules on who, under what circumstances, get which tests and subsequent care. Why do you think the well off travel to second world countries for their 'healthcare vacations', a lucrative and rapidly growing global industry?

[Jon]

Ben's tale about his own experience with the Economic decision tree of healthcare treatment should be enough to outrage any person with an ethical or moral bone in his body. How can anyone calling themselves a Christian support economic discrimination over a basic human need? Something is very, very wrong there, and its an issue that combined with the coming Supreme Court decision on ACA will play a massive role in 2016. Bernie Sanders and the progressive position on healthcare will come out of that one looking really good.

Paul, I saw the Santorum piece as well regarding his lecturing of the Pope. Perhaps the single most idiotic statement yet in the 2016 campaign. Surely won't be his last idiotic statement. From a guy absolutely despised by the residents of his own state. Go Rick!

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 June 2015 at 09:34 AM

Talking about Santorum as a serious candidate is just comic relief anyway so who cares.

You were the one who raised the topic....apparently you cared.

[fish]

Posted by: Ben Emery | 03 June 2015 at 08:48 AM

Ben....I don't have to stretch it at all.....the Nader reference was specifically in reference to bailing out the banks!

A position that you yourself endorsed.

[Paul Emery]

Come on Fish, don't you appreciate a little comic relief? Santorum ha ha ha

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 June 2015 at 10:22 AM.

I do......was that what that was?

[Walt]

LOL! Socialists, If you think state run health care is great, try dealing with Ca. worker's comp. They own my injury, and are doing everything they can NOT to pay a dime, or cover meds. The fight is on. Some Ahole sitting in front of a computer decides what need or don't need. The more they deny, the bigger the "cut" of the "savings". ( third party review... a private business) Someone who isn't a Dr.,, just someone with a "certificate" of GOD knows what. There is Socialized medicine for you.
Thank You Jerry Brown. 2 million illegals in the state do to.

[Gregory]

So many targets, so little time.

Paul, 10:49PM 2 June, regarding Santorum's urging the Pope to stay away from climate encyclicals. Good advice, even a stopped clock like Santorum can be right twice a day.

You need to stop taking HuffPo's word for anything, and they need to not take a SciAm blog's word in passing for anything. Following your links, the claim is that The Pope has a master's degree in chemistry. No, he has a technical certificate in chemistry from a high school not unlike Ghidotti, only without the same selectivity (I'm currently NOT a fan of the Ghidotti model). He then worked as a chemistry technician in a food lab for a couple of years, where I assume he did lab work like checking temperatures, pH, sugar content, etc using standard lab equipment. When he entered college, he studied humanities, earning philosophy degrees. Not physics, chemistry or math.

I've a bro-in-law who went to a similar Salesian Don Bosco high school in SoCal. One of the better parochial boy's high school education traditions continued by Catholics, but CalTech it ain't.

No, Santorum is no climate expert but neither is the Pope, if he takes the expected course, will eventually be up there with Pope Paul V, the fellow who subjected Galileo to the Inquisition and again present the whole 'papal infallibility' doctrine as another laughing stock of history. There is a danger in accepting "consensus" as truth, just ask Paul V.

[Gregory]

Fish did the italic thing a'gin

Fixed?

[Todd Juvinall]

90% of Americans were happy with their health care and it delivery system. Paul and the complainers in the 10% have screwed it up royal.

[Paul Emery]

Gregory

The Catholic believe the Pope is the direct word from Christ passed on when Peter was appointed by Christ which not only made him leader, but also made him infallible when he acted or spoke as Christ’s representative on earth. They believe Pope Francis and all Popes are direct descendents of Peter.

Not my cup of religion but it's what Catholics subscribe to.

[Paul Emery]

Gregory

You're wrong about Pope Francis, at least according to Forbes:

"When Jorge Mario Bergoglio was a young man, he graduated from technical school as a Chemical Technician. He then earned his Masters Degree in chemistry from the University of Buenos Aries. It was only after that that he decided to become a priest."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/03/12/pope-francis-scientist-2/

[Gregory]

No, "Jon" and Ben, being human and alive in the USA in the 21st century does not give you the right to demand the health care the Koch's can afford to buy for themselves.

I've had gold plated insurance, and it made my first wife's bout with cancer easier to bear. With access to every treatment available she lived 18 months, had she only the simplest chemotherapy, it might have been as short as a year and a half.

The #1 reform in the wretchedly misnamed PPACA was taxing health benefits, and it still is in the future. Unions and government workers are balking at having what are in essence prepaid health care, tax free. It's unlimited amounts of other peoples money that fund many of the most bloated systems in the USA, health care and education. Now that we have young people indebted to the tune of over a trillion dollars of debt to the federal government, we now have calls for the government to just pay all tuition. Free education for as long as a college will let you be a student. Wahoo!

How is everyone here spending their $2500 a year health care savings?

[Walt]

Polls now say, " Give us back George Bush!" And CNN no less!!!
( I guess CNN needs to do something to get ratings up)

Good Morning Gregory,, remember what you were saying about that plane?
The odds are even better in my favor. Not a military bird, but FBI. ( even though it's registered as "privately owned".
Today it's staying within Beale's airspace. ( just checked)

[Gregory]

No Paul, Forbes isn't infallible either, it was just a technical degree from a high school not unlike Ghiddoti. Here's his official biography:
http://www.news.va/en/news/biography-who-is-jorge-mario-bergoglio

He isn't a scientist.

Here's a link to an Argentine paper's mention (via google translate) of his technical high school diploma
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lanacion.com.ar%2F1562738-bergoglio-un-sacerdote-jesuita-de-carrera&edit-text=&act=url

[Gregory]

Yes, Walt, by all accounts the Beale plane is a USAF MC-12 Liberty on a training mission, not the FBI.

There are single engine planes being operated by both the DEA and Fish & Game that are occasionally flying in Nevada County but as yet there ain't been anything seen like the single engine Cessnas bristling with antennae like the FBI is said to be flying. They don't fly in circles all day.

[Paul Emery]

Gregory

IBTimes (International Business Times) also confirms his degree. There are endless others if you choose to look.

"Pope Francis, Master of Chemistry, Another Example Of Catholicism's Long Association With Science"

http://www.ibtimes.com/

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 June 2015 at 11:36 AM

Looks like IBT is confusing their headline writing with the title from a credential. Master of Chemistry probably isn't the same as "Masters degree in Chemistry". But hey....if you think that the Catholic Church will make your fever dreams come true regarding Global Warming maybe you should look into converting.

[Walt]

I must disagree. the one I reference is registered "private owner", and is operated out of Beale. Yes, news reports single engine aircraft, but can only confirm some, not all, are.

If it was a military bird, it wouldn't even show up on flighttrader.

[Gregory]

Paul, you're looking only as far as you need to find someone to confirm what you want to believe. The IBTimes article (you blew the link but I found it) pointed to what may be the original source of the misinformation.

"Jorge Bergoglio was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina’s capital city, Dec. 17, 1936.

He studied and received a master’s degree in chemistry at the University of Buenos Aires, but later decided to become a Jesuit priest and studied at the Jesuit seminary of Villa Devoto.

He studied liberal arts in Santiago, Chile, and in 1960 earned a degree in philosophy from the Catholic University of Buenos Aires."
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/03/13/cardinal-bergoglio-profile/

So, AFTER the "masters degree", he then studied philosophy, earning a degree in philosophy in 1960. At the ripe old age of 24, about the age you'd expect for someone who worked for a couple of years after high school and then entered college.

Either he was a prodigy in chemistry whipping through a BS and MS Chemistry by the time he was 20 or so in time to study philosophy, or the official biography is correct and it was a technician's certificate. The UK Catholic Herald seems to have made a booboo, but then, they might be passing on someone else's mistake by not going back to more original sources.

Here's a Facebook page with photos... there's a great shot of those college students in the 2nd to last row for 2012:
https://www.facebook.com/etn27/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

Sure look like high school kids, don't they? It's a Universitu of Buenos Aires in the same way Ghidotti is Sierra College.

[Gregory]

So, Paul, has KVMR been reporting the Pope to be a chemist with a master's degree in the subject? If so, perhaps it's time for the News Director to issue a retraction?

[Gregory]

Walt, perhaps you could cite the tail numbers of your suspected FBI flights to make this a bit less open ended.

If the private company that owns the plane you're worried about is The Rockhill Group, they're the ones who were awarded the contract to provide the training MC-12 at Beale AFB.

[Ben Emery]

Fish,
You must be a yoga teacher if you don't think that is a stretch.

Here is Nader in his own words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbm6xYsJ-5s
Minute 1:50 he addresses his position on the bailouts

[Ben Emery]

Todd, 03 June 2015 at 10:46 AM
You must have gone pretty deep into your ass to pull out the 90% of Americans were happy with the health care system prior to what I assume you're talking about with the ACA and 10% complainers.

Here is the opening to a comprehensive 2006 paper and polls on US Health Care System.

Health Care in America by ABC News, the Kaiser Family Foundation and USA Today.

Health care in America, 2006: Concerns Focus on Cost.
http://kff.org/health-costs/poll-finding/summary-and-chartpack-health-care-in-america/

• Most Americans are not satisfied with the nation’s health care system. At the root of this dissatisfaction: its price tag.
• An overwhelming 80 percent of the public is dissatisfied with the total cost of care in the nation, including six in ten (58
percent) who are very dissatisfied with costs.
• Slightly more than half --54 percent --are dissatisfied with the quality of care in the nation.
• At the same time, most people are satisfied with their own health insurance coverage (88 percent of the insured rate their coverage
as excellent or good) and with various aspects of their medical care (for example, 89 percent are satisfied with the quality of care
they receive.) Even in the personal realm, costs are the area of least satisfaction, with four in ten saying they are very (19 percent)
or somewhat (22 percent) dissatisfied with their own health carecosts.
• There’s a precariousness to Americans’contentment with their own health insurance coverage. Among theinsured, six in ten are
at least somewhat worried about being able to afford the cost oftheir health insurance over the next few years, and nearly as many
(56 percent) say they worry that by losing a job, they or their family might be left without coverage. Among the uninsured, more
than eight in ten (85 percent) say they are worried about affording the cost of their health care over the next few years, including
63 percent who are very worried.
• Furthermore, problems paying for care are on the rise. The new ABC/KFF/USA Today survey found that the percentage of people
who have had difficulty paying for health care in the last year, or had to put off needed care because of its price, are at new highs.
• One in four Americans say their family has had a problem paying for care sometime during the past year, up 7 percentage
points over the past nine years.
• This rises to 40 percent among young people (aged 18 to 29), and 42 percent among households making less
than $35,000 a year. Among the uninsured, a significant majority (59 percent) report having struggled to pay
for health care.
• Slightly more, 28 percent, say someone in their family has delayed care in the past year, a new high in the ABC and Gallup
trend (compared with between 14 and 25 percent from 1991 through2003). Most in this group said the condition they were
hoping to treat was at least somewhat serious
• Among the uninsured, 68 percent had delayed care in the same period.
• Though the uninsured are the most vulnerable to problems financing care, the majority of Americans who reported having a
problem paying for their care actually have health insurance (69percent of those with problems had insurance coverage.)
• And the cost of purchasing insurance is the major barrier for those who don’t currently have coverage. Slightly more than half (54
percent) of the uninsured say the main reason they don’t have insurance is that they can’t afford it. Another 15 percent have been
refused due to poor health or age. Only 4 percent said the reason they didn’t have insurance was that they didn’t need it.

[fish]

Posted by: Ben Emery | 03 June 2015 at 12:46 PM

The bailout of Wall Street was the "collapse of corporate capitalist ideology" and was clearly a case of socialism bailing out capitalism, independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader said Thursday in an interview with The Denver Post.

"The bailout was so frantic, so ultimatum-laced, so open-ended, so absent of criteria or standards . . . that it was clearly socialism bailing out capitalism," said Nader, a lawyer, author and longtime consumer advocate.

"I emphasize 'corporate' because the only capitalism left now is small business. They are the only ones free to go bankrupt," added Nader.

But we weren't speaking about what Nader said Ben....the exchange above was your response to my question about letting the banks fail as opposed to bailing them out.

“Why would socialism bail out a system that it considers so egregiously flawed?”

-Because everyday people will unduly suffer if it does not act.-

You answer every question except the one that is asked.

But OK....the next time the banks get into trouble, and that time is coming, you are on the record as being in favor of letting the whole thing implode regardless of any "suffering" that that event might cause?

[Gregory]

From Ben's latest missive:
"89 percent [were] satisfied with the quality of care they receive"

I'd give Todd a pass on that 90% satisfied, Ben.

[Gregory]

While the Final Jeopardy! theme is playing awaiting Paul's return, there's an interesting Wiki article on the biochemist who was the Pope's boss at that food laboratory after he graduated from that high school with the "masters in chemistry". A Marxist, she died in a skydiving accident when the Argentine military forgot to give her a parachute:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther_Ballestrino

[Account Deleted]

"The bailout of Wall Street was the "collapse of corporate capitalist ideology" and was clearly a case of socialism bailing out capitalism, independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader said Thursday in an interview with The Denver Post."
Correct - note that he said 'corporate capitalism'. Basically fascism.
He did not blame free market capitalism because because we don't have that. The govt and some of the banks and a whole lot of idiot greedy American home owners were to blame. And they took others down with them because of socialism. That's 'shared misery'. And it will happen again and the govt will bail out some of the favored ones again, because if they don't, what are we left with? Just the financially healthy folks and companies with cash and we would make the killing of all time in asset acquisition. And we're the 'wrong' folks to hold power. So, yes, it's coming and we'll all find out who's too big to fail. Because in socialism the intelligent and industrious are always bailing out the lazy, greedy and stupid.

[Gregory]

Paul, here's something else to chew on, complete with a twitter statement by the Pope's biographer:

http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2015/05/pope-francis-does-not-have-masters.html

It was some sort of food chemistry diploma, which explains why he got a job at a food chemistry lab after high school.

[Todd Juvinall]

Sorry Ben Emery, I was wrong it was 89% not 90%, mea culpa.

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh and Ben Emery, I didn't have to pull it out, you are just a hootless hoot!

[Walt]

Gregory. Note the info on the plane.
This is live.
http://www.flightradar24.com/66d9ed4

This is the same "turkey vulcher" spotted over PV and GV off and on for the past year.
today it's over it's roost.