Sandbox - 25jun15

[The last sandbox seemed to have exhausted its old threads and its ability to launch new threads.  One can always tell that a sandbox is overfilled when the mudball density goes up.  I very much enjoyed the exchange on national healthcare issues and alternatives.  Although, I still didn't see any appreciation from the Left that their vaunted EU healthcare programs continue to eat up a greater fraction of GDP year after year while existing services are being rationed and/or cut - the litmus test for unsustainability.  But then, that news never reaches the lamestream, and therefore it really is not happening. 

Regarding the GDP figure, please see my comment below. gjr]

Comments

[George Rebane]

PaulE 357pm - Our healthcare costs gone down under Obamacare??!! Don't believe a word of it. The real costs of SCROTUMscare have yet to be tallied. I look forward to including in there a conservatarian's view of externalities which is such a progressives' favorite. BTW, the World Bank has about as much ability to compute US healthcare costs as does the Fed our GDP and unemployment, and OMB's or CBO's ability to predict federal revenues and deficits. The pain from the real costs are already being experienced, the actual numbers will come much later.

[Todd Juvinall]

Healthcare on the whole may be a tad lower (not that I believe that) because the government subsidizes the poor but it has risen enormously for the dumb taxpayer who had his own before Ocare. Sorry Paul Emery, you can't put lipstick on that pig and call it a gal.

The World Bank? Jeeze, you libs wrecked Seattle because you hate that entity. Now it is gospel? What a world, what a world.

[Todd Juvinall]

Great Britain is going BK from their NHS. People just don't learn.

[Don Bessee]

Why are the all the people of color running for President in the Republican Party?

[George Rebane]

Administrivia = Pelline came back and started a whole new line of crap that got regular readers riled. The entire thread has been removed. I will now investigate how to remove him permanently; the man really is a worthless piece of ...

[Steven Frisch]

I see how this works.....dig up dirt on George's friends and you're out of here :)

Let's be clear here, if the point I once owed a big back tax bill 20 years ago but paid it back is relevant, then the point that George Boardman and Todd Juvinall are currently behind on their property taxes, that Todd defaulted on home mortgage[s] and has been involved in more than 20 legal actions over the last 25 years, that Greg crashed his plane, and that Don is an alleged serial harasser with a criminal record, are fair game.

You know George, despite your occasionally passive aggressive comments, you might actually be able to have a decent conversation with people who have a wide variety of views here, if it were not for people like Don, Fish, Greg and Todd constantly sniping and holding you back.

[Todd Juvinall]

Hey Steve Frisch, at least we are a bunch of interesting people. You are truly a boar.

[George Rebane]

What a concept, I have a preference for some people and not others. Kinda like SCOTUS unconstitutionally favoring some laws over others. But then, things do change.

[Todd Juvinall]

GeorgeR, within two minutes Pelline copy pasted your comment at 5:38 at his diss piece on you and Boardman. Now that is real journalism. LOL! The internet is changing the way we get our news.

[fish]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 26 June 2015 at 05:30 PM

I'm not going to quibble with most of your analysis other than to say "House Rules". And after yesterdays Supreme Court ruling I'm no longer sure that you even cheated on your taxes.....since it seems like everybody is just making it up as they go along.

Despite being on the wrong side of just about everything here you are still about the only guy in the "opposition" that I can stomach!

Arrivederci!

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 26 June 2015 at 05:38 PM

Yeah, well you have pretty bad taste George, even on my worst day I am way more interesting that Todd, Fish and Greg.

Note, I don't include Mr. Boardman in that list.

[Don Bessee]

Frischy- Who cares what some dead site by people who lost a lawsuit and are connected with the disgruntled growers like the asa vp blather & rant? Sure has slowed me down. They lost the suit and everything at the elections last year with measure S being a total slaughter. I was reelected to the executive committee of the County assoc. in the first quarter of this year and in the second quarter was appointed the Exec Director of SAM (Smart Approaches to Marijuana) of Northern California. I expect 'them' to get more virulent as the primary approaches, to say nothing of the general next year! lol

[Todd Juvinall]

DonB, don't engage Frisch. Many people who did what he did with his employees withheld taxes are in the hoosegow! I don't give a hoot about his criticism. Like an old pal of mine used to say "what are they going to do? Send me to Vietnam?" What a hoot. Besides he is the biggest boar!

[Don Bessee]

SF@ 606 - Well that's no surprise as a response from the j/s/j crew, you love yourself, you really love yourself! Has/does the sbc get donations that were connected to CEQA offsets?

[Jon]

I love this piece! The majority of the nation celebrates the Supreme decision on equal rights today. But oh no, no, not the very astute Repubs! Wouldn't want to irritate that base..whatever that is.. These right wingers are advocates of going down with the ship apparently. Honorable people...LOL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/us/gop-hopefuls-denounce-marriage-equality-ruling.html

[Joe Koyote]

"Steve Frisch, my blog is unmoderated. You are simply wrong."
"Thanks for the compliment Barry. You are correct and my blog allows all to post."

NOT TRUE, Todd either forgets or manufactures reality to suit his needs--but….. A couple of months ago I was blogging at Todd's anonymously and without profanity and Todd said that he would block me if I didn't use my name..I don't recall the issue but he didn't like my comments. I figured he let others post anonymously with way more vile crap than I was posting, so I kept posting anonymously, AND HE DID BLOCK ME and I haven't been back since to see if the block has been lifted.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 26 June 2015 at 07:50 PM

Wow, big surprise, Todd is a lying sack.

[Russ Steele]

A new take on the Lord’s Prayer, designed to encapsulate Pope Francis’s message:

Our Gaia, Who art in danger,
Sustainable be thy name,
Thy renewable energy resources come,
Thy Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s will be done
On Earth as it is in the upper atmosphere
Give us this day our daily organic ciabatta
Forgive us our carbon emissions
Though we can’t forgive those multinationals who emit against us
Lead us not into excessive plane travel
Deliver us from genetically modified crops
For thine is the moral high ground
The onshore wind farms and the subsidies
For as long as the taxes can be raised. Amen.

[Jon]

Joe and Steve,
Todd serves his function here. He is the Toadie in A Christmas Story.

[Don Bessee]

CCC

[Todd Juvinall]

JoeK I don;t block anyone. I will delete posts that use profanity or sexual content. I recall having to delete one from an anonymous poster about weird fantasies of me. So that was you eh?

Jonnie is now the resident liberal "useful idiot" here. What a hoot.

Steve Frisch is simply a tax cheat.

[Bill Tozer]

Well

https://www.facebook.com/Protectingourconstitution/photos/pb.123123377842466.-2207520000.1435384662./457512854403515/?type=3&theater

[Ben Emery]

George,
Well my brother must be out in the villages and he can be there for a two to three weeks at a time. Village = no power, no running water, no roads just paths

This goes to the discussion of GDP/ Externalities

How can we measure the value of an ecosystem when we don't understand the full extent of its positive attributes?

To extract/ withdrawal natural resources that took anywhere from thousands to tens of millions of years to develop the environmental equilibrium account becomes negative.

When we cut down an old growth forest we can measure the matter that is extracted but not much else. The fact of the matter is that forest took hundreds if not thousands of years to grow. In that time those tree have sequestered who knows how many tons of carbon, created top soil, gave birds that spread seeds a home and brought bugs for them to feed on, ect......

There is so much to this subject but I will give you a link that will probably do a better job of explaining than myself.

http://www.ecosystemvaluation.org/1-02.htm

[George Rebane]

BenE 839am - Not to worry Ben, we'll wait until your brother emerges, and then maybe he can weigh in himself on the matter of externalities.

BTW, just so we don't lose focus, we all understand what externalities are and also the ideological basis for certain externalities, but the real objective here is to meld externalities into Gross National Income, and then show how GNI relates to GDP.

On a related matter of your ecological proclivities (which I am aware of and we don't need to rehash here), your notion of nature taking "thousands to tens of millions of years to develop the environmental equilibrium" is not supported by any science I am aware of. The environment is not in equilibrium - never was, never will be, world without end, Amen.

[Joe Koyote]

Todd -." I recall having to delete one from an anonymous poster about weird fantasies of me. So that was you eh?"

No Todd, are you making that up also? That wasn't me and I was blocked not deleted. I tried posting for three days and none of my posts would show up. Perhaps that was a "blogspot" error?

[Greg]

"Let's be clear here, if the point I once owed a big back tax bill 20 years ago but paid it back is relevant, then the point that George Boardman and Todd Juvinall are currently behind on their property taxes, that Todd defaulted on home mortgage[s] and has been involved in more than 20 legal actions over the last 25 years, that Greg crashed his plane, and that Don is an alleged serial harasser with a criminal record, are fair game." -Frisch

Well, isn't that special.

Let's remember Frisch's Big Tax Bill was because of his fraudulent practices of misappropriating payroll tax accounts in an illegal attempt to keep a failed business afloat, and let's also remember his drunk driving conviction (misdemeanor or felony, Steve?). I've never even been handcuffed. How did that feel?

In contrast, because the rough landing after a failed takeoff caused some damage to the firewall my accident was investigated by the FAA and the NTSB. No fire truck rolled, no LEA appeared, John Hart didn't take pics for The Union. No one was injured. I didn't have to appear for an Inquisition, and the NTSB made no finding of pilot error. It was vapor lock. In nearly 1400 hours of logged flight time I have had zero actions from the FAA or NTSB. In fact, outside of a few minutes of phone calls and a couple of emails after my mishap, I've had no communications with them at all.

If this makes it easier for you to understand, Steve, this is kind of like being hit by a drunk driver and then having someone say you crashed your car.

Girly men Pelline, Frisch and "Jon" are apparently frightened by the prospect of bending a little aluminum, but when you take off in a single engine airplane and there's an engine problem, you're coming back down. It's a risk you take. If you keep your wits, it should be survivable and I still have those wits.

Oh, and the insurance underwriter that paid off the declared value of that Piper Cherokee (a simple 4 place 160HP fixed prop, fixed gear plane typical for personal aircraft and for training) when they determined it was uneconomically repairable? They're insuring my current faster, complex (meaning controllable pitch prop and retractable gear) high performance (meaning over 200 horsepower) and more valuable airplane... so they must be more blasé abut the reality of aircraft operations than the usual suspects here.

I've written about this before, on open public blogs. There's no there, there.

[Todd Juvinall]

JoeK 9:58 AM. So you posted as anonymous and perved me and you were booted? I suggest you start your own blog JoeK and you can post whatever you want. However I don't let pervert anon's post on my blog.

[Jon]

Gregory clearly doth protest waaaaaaaaay too much.

[Steven Frisch]

Greg, take some Haldol and calm down. No one gives a shit about what you say about me anymore. You have jumped the shark.

[Greg]

"[the] notion of nature taking "thousands to tens of millions of years to develop the environmental equilibrium" is not supported by any science I am aware of. The environment is not in equilibrium - never was, never will be, world without end, Amen."-GR

George, I think it's well established that naive environmentalists have determined the natural state of the environment is what they think the weather was when they were 10 years old, and they want it back.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 27 June 2015 at 09:18 AM

"BTW, just so we don't lose focus, we all understand what externalities are and also the ideological basis for certain externalities, but the real objective here is to meld externalities into Gross National Income, and then show how GNI relates to GDP."

Just to be clear George if it comes up in the future I am not advocating including externalities in either GNI or GDP either. I think the calculations are too complicated for the quick down and dirty number those two measures represent.

I do advocate gradually including life cycle analysis into the production and consumption of goods and services which would effect GNI and GDP, but only to the extent that they become a part of the set of data that those indicators measure.

[Greg]

"Yeah, well you have pretty bad taste George, even on my worst day I am way more interesting that Todd, Fish and Greg." -Frisch

Steve, might I suggest Narcissists Anonymous? Pelline should have the contact info.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 27 June 2015 at 10:04 AM

So Todd is a big fat liar....and he admits it. But not completely yet, because he has not yet admitted that he has blocked people who have posted under their real names and used valid e-mail addresses, whom I also know.

Todd, why can't I post on your bog?

Big fat liar....big fat liar....

[Steven Frisch]

Let's get a list going of people Todd has blocked...me, Joe, Michael, anyone else? Come on down one and all.....speak up if Todd either blocked you or delated your comments just because he did not like them...

Big fat liar.

[Steven Frisch]

Yeah, I might meet you there with your great big stack of diplomas, and Todd with in imaginary ordinarily large penis.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 27 June 2015 at 10:27 AM

Ooops...that was clearly directed at Greg :)

[George Boardman]

Steve Frisch is wrong when he claims I'm delinquent on my property taxes. My wife and her sister are behind on the taxes on a house they own that has been sold and will close escrow July 7.

Even if Frisch's claim was true, how is that "fair game?" I have never discussed Frisch's tax problems or any other personal information about him. I prefer to stick to the issues. Is it too much to expect the same consideration from others?

[Greg]

No, Steve, I met Todd a couple of times. He ain't fat.

Now, given I know for a fact you have lied (for example, to your former employees, to the IRS and on this blog), and you are fat. so... Big fat certified liar, meet weight appropriate accused liar.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Boardman | 27 June 2015 at 10:29 AM

It was an example, and topical because the unsubstantiated allegation was recently made here; in reality I think ALL of this stuff is irrelevant and was merely pointing out that George determines the relevance prejudicially.

I am sorry if I ruffled your feathers. Perhaps the next time allegations are made against others you might apply the same standard you would prefer to have applied to yourself.

[Steven Frisch]

Greg I can't help it I am really worried about you.

It is clear from your uncommon hours that you MAY suffer from insomnia. It is also clear from your passive aggressive behavior on this blog that you MAY suffer from either severe depression or schizophrenia. It is also clear from your repeated threats against me that you MAY suffer from some kind of paranoia. It is also clear that you MAY have quite a bit of time on your hands to blog--and appear not to have a job--thus you MAY have a lot of opportunity to....

My concern is that with your stated proclivity for the 2nd amendment, coupled with your access to an airplane, you MAY pose a threat to public safety, especially under the influence of the types of drugs people who regularly suffer from insomnia, depression, schizophrenia and delusional paranoia consume.

I just hope your aim is as flawed as you logic!

[Steven Frisch]

Hey George, perhaps you could use your editorial prerogative and delete all this type of nonsense when people post it, since we know you can do that and did just recently, then people might be able to focus on a substantive issue like your post from 9:18 am and mine from 10:22 am, which are the only actually interesting ones since Ben's 8:39.

[Greg]

Steve, I have one diploma, from high school. The whole "Greg thinks he's so smart" meme was started by Keachie when I suggested that his BA Sociology (or was it Anthro?) might be inadequate both for understanding the climate debate or to teach computer science in public schools.

Keach believed pasting reams from the Wiki was an adequate substitute for rational thought. You think wonky minutia are interesting. You are the lesser evil, but interesting? Less than you imagine.

[Greg]

"Greg I can't help it I am really worried about you."

Obsessive-Compulsiveness can be treated, and don't worry, my small arsenal has never been used in anger.

Steve, you really seem to have severe problems when people stand up to your bullying.

[Todd Juvinall]

I have never "blocked" anyone from my blog Steve Frisch. I delete pervy comments, some of which you may have made a few years ago along with anonymous commenters. If you were respectful and not so full of hate and odd behavior on the blogs, then perhaps someone would like you.

Now Mr. Boardman is your target. Is there anyone that you don't attack? Well, yes, Pelline. The facts are the facts, Steve Frisch comes here as a self proclaimed genius on every topic and when confronted, he goes personal. He does opposition research to come up with things he thinks will embarrass and then shut-up his opposition. If he had not bankrupted his own business, taken the employees $250,000 in payroll taxed and was not liened by the local, state and federal governments for non payment of a lot of ,omey, I would probably not care less. But when someone is a total hypocrite like Steve Frisch, he must be exposed as such.

One last question for Steve Frisch. Did you cut a deal with the government on your taxes? You say you paid them off so was it for the full amount or some negotiated discounted amout? My guess it was a discount since it appears the liens were only released around 2009. Started all of your shenanigans about taxes in what? 1993?

[Todd Juvinall]

oops, and the "liar, liar" mantra Steve Frisch? Jeeze, my 11 year old niece is better than that. What a hoot!

[George Rebane]

StevenF 1022am & 1041am - OK, your point is well made, and I think we do agree on the difficulty of accounting externalities due to their causality and size being subjective attributes often swayed by ideology. But let me see if I can discover a reasonable connection, if only conceptually, that relates externalities to GNI to GDP. We both are aware how negative externalities are argued and included in public policy analyses by the Left.

Re going through the comment streams on various posts and extracting the 'mudball threads', that is hard work through TypePad's UI. I keep hoping that all RR commenters will one day see the futility of such exchanges. I firmly believe that other readers are not interested and 'fast forward' through such exchanges, even at the risk of losing an interstitial comment that is topical.

While I appreciate the growth and size of RR, it is getting harder to deal with the mudballs, and I find myself going through 'What if I just ...?' thoughts more frequently these days. Given your oft stated sentiments about RR, I'm not sure you want to help, but in the off chance that you do, I'll try to pitch in from my side. Discounting the message because of the messenger's long past sins - real or fabricated - is really sophomoric and shouldn't play well with RR readers. However, I do think that pointing out a commenter's current status or activities that bear on the topic is fair game in order to argue conflict of interest, prejudice, or some other relationship may impact on the argument - e.g. Reagan's famous remark on age during a debate, or even my belonging to the Sportsmen's Club when I foment about the Second Amendment.

[Todd Juvinall]

Do the liberals in charge of our country understand why 93 million Americans are not working? What are the reasons they are not working? Are they all taking a check from the government to survive? How does that money figure into the GNP? If they were working and are now not working, where did that job go? Is it gone because it became to expensive to produce a product? Is that job in China, Bangladesh, India? Why is it there. As long as the left refuse to see the results of all their good intentions, laws and regulations,(Federal Registers) and not address the real world results of same, America will be a third world country pretty fast. With illegal immigration and the SCOTUS rulings this week, we are on our way!

[Greg]

Let's revisit Stephen Frisch's entry into this thread:
"Must be nice to be able to just make shit up and pretend it is real based on your own view of the world."

Frisch, you reap what you sew. I'd wager most of the posts you have made on this thread contain "shit you made up and pretended it is real based on your own view of the world", including the disturbing attempt at painting me as a danger to society at 10:37AM.

Frisch, you must be the Apple of your Board's eye.

[George Boardman]

Re GeorgeR at 11:08 AM:

Think of this as basic training in case you decide to pursue a second career as head master of a school for juvenile delinquents.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Greg | 27 June 2015 at 11:26 AM

That would be "sow" Greg.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George " | 27 June 2015 at 11:08 AM

"Re going through the comment streams on various posts and extracting the 'mudball threads', that is hard work through TypePad's UI. I keep hoping that all RR commenters will one day see the futility of such exchanges. I firmly believe that other readers are not interested and 'fast forward' through such exchanges, even at the risk of losing an interstitial comment that is topical."

"While I appreciate the growth and size of RR, it is getting harder to deal with the mudballs, and I find myself going through 'What if I just ...?' thoughts more frequently these days. "

George, I actually feel for you there. But if we looked at this purely from your desires for your blog I would be willing to bet you are primarily interested in two things: sharing with people the articles and items of interest you find interesting in contemporary society, and, having your customers discuss those items so that they can understand them more fully and you can gain perspective from their knowledge.

IF those are your goals, as the visits to your blog grow you are going to increasingly have trouble with separating the wheat from the chaff.

One way to do that would be, as I have suggested several times, the establishment of ground rules. This is after all your blog, as you pointed out above, and you own it, so to meet your goals you can adapt to new situations. The new situation is potentially hundreds of entries a day.

This blog is no where near my primary on line presence. My FB page is my primary presence and it reaches hundreds of people a day and receives at least dozens of comments a day. I have rules. The rule are 1) stick relatively close to the original topic posted, 2) make your case cogently, 3) counter another persons perspective, but it should be related to the topic, the information presented, or present new information, 4) you are not allowed to personally attack other posters or bring into the conversation extraneous or personal information that is unrelated to the original post, 5) no spam or porn.

IN 5 years on FB I have had to bounce a grand total of three people, ironically two of them up until recently of the liberal persuasion (and I simply blocked Todd). By the way my rules are almost unstated, only once or twice have I had to actually state them to clarify. Instead I use the instant message function to ask people to either remove their comment or go back and edit to remove nonsense. That almost never happens.

The truth is probably 80% of what gets posted on your blog is chaff (extraneous unrelated nonsense) and I don't believe that is what you originally envisioned. I also must point out that the percentage of chaff is directly proportional to the rules you set. If you allow chaff people who like to post chaff will be attracted to your blog. But you control the outcome. If your goals are similar to what I stated above, you control the outcome and you could use a simple set of rules to meet your personal goals for the blog.

I have offered 'truce' several times here....but I will be damned if I am going to unilaterally disarm...but you call a 'truce' and enforce it...and we could talk about science, economics, technology, the singularity, wild fire, whatever comes up that interests you.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 27 June 2015 at 11:06 AM

Mr. Boardman is not a 'target'. I actually usually enjoy Mr. Boardman's comments and find most of what he posts interesting (although I occasionally shake my head and ask myself, "I wonder what his source is.") Note I intentionally excluded Mr. Boardman form the list of the 'uninteresting'.

I used his case as an example, cognizant of the fact that the tax delinquency roll that Mr. Pelline posted was ambiguous.

So let me set an example here: George I am sorry. My comment was inaccurate and I sincerely apologize for any hurt feelings or anxiety they caused.

[Greg]

"I have offered 'truce' several times here....but I will be damned if I am going to unilaterally disarm...but you call a 'truce' and enforce it...and we could talk about science, economics, technology, the singularity, wild fire, whatever comes up that interests you."

Steve, I can't remember any of your truces being anything other than self serving declarations". The deal is, stop the defamations, just grin and bear the inevitable truthful arrows that come your way, and things will settle down.

I have suggested to George to implement a 'no personal attack at all' policy, just snip them when they first pop up without much fanfare and the mudball avalanches will stop. It's been his choice to allow a free for all and you are, in my estimation, one of the worst offenders, with your 10:37 an instant classic.

[Greg]

" I actually usually enjoy Mr. Boardman's comments and find most of what he posts interesting"

You're very tribal, Steve, and Boardman usually makes left of center comments here which are remarkably similar to yours. Keeping that in mind, The Union letter writers that paint him as a right wing kook are put in stark relief.

I gather George Boardman feels attacked by your false statements labeling him a tax delinquent. How about a real apology, Steve?

[Todd Juvinall]

Honestly, I truly think Steve Frisch is off his noggin. It is so bad now I don't even read his comments of more than a sentence. Read his comments accusing me of "blocking" anonymous attackers on my blog and the refusal to believe I don't"block" with his tortured Facebook explanation of how he blocks commenters. He blocked my comment and banned me for asking him how much taxpayers money he spent traveling to Red China. He really is a goofy person.

Regarding Boardman, I don't really care if he is left or right and like all of us he has his opinion. If he is a tax scofflaw as Frisch accuses him of being, I am sure he can defend himself as he is a "wordsmith" and never makes my kind of spelling errors.

Overall, this blog along with others that do not moderate are always subject to nuts like Frisch, Jon, MA and JoeK types. But my experience with these kinds of people is you cannot let them hog the ether with their psychotic views and they must be responded too. Our culture is now populated with the spewings of those people and we need to meet them with the truth and common sense whenever they rear their ugly personalities.

[Barry Pruett]

"My facebook feed looks like a battle broke out between the Confederates and a Skittles factory." LOL. Too much fun...be happy.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 1157am - Thanks for the extended comment and advice. Yes, I do have to do something differently, and setting up comment rules is a good place to start, and hopefully end ;-)

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Greg | 27 June 2015 at 12:18 PM

Seriously Greg, you started it, years ago, and I consider falsely claiming I committed a tax crime (never charged with a crime, you raging asshole) and serially defaming me, and regularly threatening to sue me or call my mom or whatever he hell you think you can to to hurt me, is enough for me to only agree to a truce that is multilateral and enforced. Until then I will call you the asshole you are every time you snark, or mention my name, or attack my business.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Greg | 27 June 2015 at 12:27 PM

I apologize:"So let me set an example here: George I am sorry. My comment was inaccurate and I sincerely apologize for any hurt feelings or anxiety they caused."

Greg the raging prick says: "How about a real apology, Steve?"

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 27 June 2015 at 12:41 PM

Todd is a total complete liar. A full on liar. Such a hopelessly delusional liar that I think he may even believe the stuff he says.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 27 June 2015 at 05:09 PM

So, as of 4 pm when I came back from going to Reno to see a movie, I am no longer blocked from Todd's insane web site. This delusional piece of work probably thinks that means he can claim I (and others) were never blocked; and that somehow the point that I am not blocked now means it was never true.

Todd, you really are one of the stupidest people I've ever met in my life.

[George Rebane]

Wow! I guess the rules and their enforcement really will be a necessary condition for peace in this part of cyberspace.

[George Rebane]

As a change of pace, here is something that might bring a smile on your face or a tear to your eye, or both. For our liberal friends it may just be something unreal that only exists in the minds of the Right. Limbaugh has observed that under Obama the following words have been totally redefined or completely ignored, or redefined then ignored - marriage, taxes, GDP, employed, recession, full-time job, recovery. And even more have been reclassified as being racist, sexist, bigoted, and homophobic. Whuda thunk? Answers here -
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/26/rush-limbaugh-outlines-seven-words-and-phrases-he-says-have-been-totally-redefined-in-the-age-of-obama/

[Todd Juvinall]

Wow, I go do some fun things and come back to all this high anxiety and namecalling by Steve Frisch. Yikes, honestly he has lost his noggin. And I have never met him!

Anyway the only people that block are Steve Frisch and Jeff Pelline. My blog accepts any comments. I have as I stated before, tossed anonymous personal attacks on me and perverted ones from JoeK it appears. Steve Frisch is just fantasying it looks like.

As far as me telling the truth, I do yell the truth. But that is only me. What a hoot!

[Jon]

Exactly Todd. You telling the truth- What a freaking HOOT!

[Todd Juvinall]

Jon, you are a anonymous troll, I am a real person. What a hoot!

[Jon]

Todd, I saw where you were voted the single dumbest elected official in CA history. Not a surprise there, Toadie.
Yes Todd, I am a real person and the name is Jon. Sorry to disappoint you.

[Todd Juvinall]

No Jon you are a troll. Your supposed screen name is phony. Tell us who you really are. And I was the second dumbest elected official. Dianne Feinstein beat me for the top prize. Oh, and "toadie" was the name my four sisters teased me with when I was a kid. Still warms the cockles of my heart. Thanks for the reminder Jonnie Troll. What a hoot!

[Jon]

Hey Todd, Toadie is not a description to be proud of. Perhaps you didn't know it, and still don't, but your sisters were very astute even back then. You were an unoriginal, ass kissing follower even as a kid!

[Don Bessee]

Well, I see the shining intellectual lights of the left in Nevada County are still flickering!

[Todd Juvinall]

DonB, jonnie is a hoot!

[Jon]

Did you guys (Don and Toadie) ever cross paths at the NC Courthouse? Holy Toledo.

[Todd Juvinall]

No jonnie but I was there for your trial gor libel. What a hoot!

[Jon]

Todd,
With you always needing the last word, it totally explains your divorce record!

[Larry Wirth]

Doesn't seem like the cease-fire is holding very well...

Try a little harder folks?

[Bonnie McGuire]

All this stupid blathering on Mr. Rebanes wonderful discussion page is the technique those who undermine use to distract a useful, knowledgable discussion. Don't be distracted by foolishness and stick to interesting discussion. Ignore dumb insults. If you compare Mr. Rebanes site with others that have few participants you'll realize what's happening here now. Get out of this destructive rut.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Bonnie McGuire | 28 June 2015 at 10:46 AM

Actually Bonnie I could not agree with you more.....but the technique is being used multi-laterally so it will require multi-lateral agreement :)

And Larry.....I would welcome a truce with real rules and fair enforcement. Of course I might cease commenting because the only thing that really brings me back here is the chaff. The wheat is usually available elsewhere. I am more of a Nevada County Scooper fan.

But I will concede to Todd that he may be only the second dumbest elected official ever.

[Gregory]

"Seriously Greg, you started it, years ago, and I consider falsely claiming I committed a tax crime (never charged with a crime, you raging asshole) and serially defaming me, and regularly threatening to sue me or call my mom or whatever he hell you think you can to to hurt me, is enough for me to only agree to a truce that is multilateral and enforced. Until then I will call you the asshole you are every time you snark, or mention my name, or attack my business.

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 27 June 2015 at 05:05 PM"

Seriously Steve, you started it and have shown no small talent for making it worse.

The IRS identifies what got you into trouble as a "fraudulent practice"... yes or no?

[Todd Juvinall]

Bonnie, you see we try to be civil and usually are until the trolls Frisch, Jon and a couple of others come here to pick a fight. Look at Frisch's comment above at 11:15 AM. Now he could have left out the part attacking me but he can't resist so he does. GeorgeR allows Frisch's comments to stand and so I and others have to respond with the truth since this blog is available to 7 billion people.

So there it is. Liberals come here, lie and pick a fight, heck, Jon even calls me "Toadie" instead of my name as some sort of diss (I was called that as a little kid by my sisters). The left is like this on every issue and we who treasure the truth cannot let them hog the discourse.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 28 June 2015 at 11:28 AM

See Bonnie, I told you so.

Todd, at the same time you are busting me for quoting your own words you were on another thread posting this. "Looks to me like the only losers in America are the white middle class. Those family oriented people working two jobs and trying to live their lives without all the interference from people like jonnie and Frisch."

[Todd Juvinall]

Golly you read my blog and come here to argue. What a guy. Well what is untrue Steve Frisch? You tell us all how you are helping the taxpaying middle class families. Doing their dishes for them? Mowing their lawns? No, you are deriving your living by taking so called and qquestionable " nonprofit" money and placing it into your accounts. They are paying your salary. Tell us what you are doing for those people.

[Todd Juvinall]

Oops that wasmy comment on this blog.

[Gregory]

Here we have a classic Frischian lying by omission. Fraudulent practice... yes or no?

[Gregory]

While the Jeopardy! theme plays, let's explore the logic of "no charges were filed therefore no crime was committed".

Dear to the heart to many of the OWS crowd are the crimes committed by Small Street financiers looting the country, and I do not turn a deaf ear to that situation... but no charges have been filed and it's been years with no charges filed. Does that mean no crimes were committed, or that criminality is a wave function with criminality and innocence coexisting, like Schroedinger's cat being both dead and alive in a box until someone opens the box to look?

Then there is Nixon, who was pardoned for the crimes before anyone opened the box.

Curious.

[Todd Juvinall]

I think there was a "deal" about the money owed to all the agencies. It was probably a 10% on the dollar deal. Taxpayers robbed twice.

[Gregory]

Pyramiding, diverting money withheld for payroll taxes into your pockets is a fraudulent practice... yes or no?

This question is for everyone but especially that one someone who thinks not being charged means no crime was committed.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 28 June 2015 at 02:18 PM

I seek a clarification George. Do the rules apply to the Sandbox? The way i read them they do since all 10 rules are in place.

If so, I respectfully request the removal of Greg's 2:18 since it is violation of the rules, implies illegal activity, and in the context of this thread is clearly referring to me.

I suggest you close this Sandox and open a new one.

Also, since clearly your loyal readers are intent on finding ways to circumvent the rules I suggest you add one....no hyperlinking back to previous content that violates the rules. I suspect that would stop happening shortly.

Thank you.

[Todd Juvinall]

Yes or no Frisch. Answer the question truthfully and then we can move on. But alas you cannot.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 230pm - Greg's 218pm asks a topical question of particularly no one, seeking answer to a general question the answer to which you may simply ignore if you wish. And let's see how that hyperlinking to previously posted mudballs works out. Readers, of course, are not required to follow any URLs included in comments.

As requested, a new sandbox is being opened.

[Gregory]

Thank you George, I did think it sufficiently Churchillian to pass muster, and once again, crickets on an answer just bluster regarding the appropriateness of the question from that special someone who really does not want to answer.

Steve seems to think a yes implies a criminal act on his part. Perhaps, but then such deals are made regularly. No big deal, unless my truthful statement of IRS regulations are used to justify defamation of my character by that special someone.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 28 June 2015 at 02:30 PM

Thank you George. Perhaps, you could answer the other part of my comment....do the rules as stated apply to the Sandox? The way I read the rules they do.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 28 June 2015 at 02:34 PM

Todd, you may have noticed that the new rules as applied to a question like this are to address the topic not individuals.

[Gregory]

Frisch 3:48

I'm happy to answer that for you only because I think George was crystal clear... yes they do apply to the sandbox!

Perhaps you're confusing argumentum ad hominem with inconvenient truths.

[George Rebane]

Gregory 302pm - I have not been party to the debates, charges, and counter-charges about the legality, morality, or fattening properties of other readers' pasts. Readers can answer each other's questions or send crickets. In short, answers to questions are optional not mandatory. Third party readers will make up their own minds regarding an answer or its absence - the original question need not become an irritating drumbeat.

SteveF 348pm - I'm not sure what particularity you are referencing, but save for welcoming all topics in a sandbox, the rules should apply across the board. But I do admonish commenters to avoid directed questions on gratuitous 'general topics' such as about having sex with a sheep.

Bottom line - no need to answer or engage when it doesn't suit you.

[Steven Frisch]

5. ‘Praise publicly and punish privately.’ Don’t launch personal attacks on other commenters or me. Most certainly don’t publish other people’s personal information that is unrelated to the posted topic(s).

My question is what constitutes a personal attack? And what do you mean by admonish?

If I say, I think someone 'whose name rhymes with odd' has sex with sheep is that a personal attack? Is it necessary for me to say, "I think Todd has sex with sheep?"

My case would be that if having sex with sheep is not relevant to the topic, or a subsequent topic that comes up in a thread, or is not brought up by the individual in question, it is a personal attack, whoever behind the fig leaf of 'odd' or clearly stated as Todd.

If I am free to say "Todd has sex with sheep" and his recourse is to not 'engage' then there really is no proscription against personal attacks.

By the way the same is true of personal information. If I say, "Todd is being sued" and it is a matter of public record, but it is not relevant to the topic if the thread, is it personal or business.

[Todd Juvinall]

GeorgeR, as you can see the left will harass you until you say uncle. It is their stock and trade. Mr. Frisch is doing this and all I can say is good luck. Until he gets his way and all others are run off (which is the strategy) he will be undaunted.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 506pm - Let's just give it a try and not try to immediately generate copy for some arcane law journal somewhere.