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07 June 2015

Comments

Barry Pruett

Yes. Good thoughts. Happy Sunday!

Todd Juvinall

Steven Frisch | 07 June 2015 at 08:58 AM

Well dear readers, you can read for yourself the level of intelligence, or lack thereof, of Steve Frisch (noted liberal and failed businessman). He claims I am a liar by referencing Jorge Ramos, famous Mexican illegal immigrant supporter (an open borders advocate) and commentator on Telemundo. Then he says go watch the video, now he says here is a Breitbart article. But Frisch doesn't watch the whole interview and he doesn't quote the entire article from Breitbart in an attempt to fool the readers. He is lacking in integrity regarding this issue and I believe he has mentioned he supports amnesty for the millions of illegals.

The readers can decide for themselves who is telling the true story but in reading Frisch's childish profanity against m position, I would say he is the fool and everyone knows it.

At church today they satrted a series on men and are doing so by using Samsom as the example. So far it would appear to me that self proclaimed atheists like Mr. Frisch might want to read about Samson. But, then he may harm himself since he could never be a Samson-like man.

Account Deleted

How many millions of illegals isn't even the point. Why do we even allow one person to skate based on skin color? We were promised they wouldn't be given the right to vote or freebies. That lie (which I never believed) didn't last very long. Now it's special 'rights' and all manner of billions to house and feed them. They were supposed to be a big boon for economy. What a laugh. The American tax payer is paying to support a Democrat voter registration drive like we've never seen. You may not like Ann Coulter, but she is completely correct on this issue. We will pay for this for decades to come, and a lot of the victims will be the pawns of the Dems. Sad.

Todd Juvinall

Moratorium, assimilate those here legally then install 'Bracero" type work programs. Solved!

Paul Emery

Todd

Since you continue to go after Steve F work history as the only message you have it is again appropriate to comment on your recent "work" record. My sources tell me (yes, there is more than one) that one of the reasons you were "let go" at CABPRO was because, of all things, overspending and extravagance. You live in a glass house Todd and your short term re-employment (a few months) at an organization you founded) is a legitimate topic of conversation according to your terms. I wonder if you collected unemployment after your severing?

George Rebane

ScottO 1242pm - glad you reinvigorated the amnesty and maintenance issues relating to illegal aliens (no matter their number). It is a point that so far has been addressed by the Collectivists' Cricket Corps (CCC, in memory of FDR's alphabet soup agencies that failed to stop the Great Depression). The CCC has also been the only response to my 1148am in the 4jun15 sandbox.

Walt

Great turnout for the PV run this morning. Officially and "unofficial" international
participation. One runner from Can. and one from S.Africa.
Got to watch the show from my driveway. Just backed up the redneck bleachers and dropped the tailgate. We cheered on all the runners as they jogged on by. My own kid placed 6th in her division. She did the full run.( half marathon)

George Rebane

Walt 112pm - Congrats Walt, and thanks for sharing that little bit of Americana with us.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery | 07 June 2015 at 12:51 PM

Paul I have no idea what you are talking about. Please tell the readers here who gave you your information. Of course you claim to be a "press" person so you will dodge the question as "confidential". Too funny.

Also, since we are at it, what about you? I have heard some very interesting stories about you and your finances. So, glass house eh?

Paul Emery

Todd

My sources you'll never know. You can straighten this out by answering three simple questions.

1 How long did your "employment at CABPRO last in 2012

2 Why did your employment end

3 Did you collect unemployment after leaving

Fire away on my finances. My banker knows

Gregory

Paul, if your sources are solid regarding Todd's "employment" you should (or should have) run it on KVMR's "news". If not, silence is a virtue; considering the CABPRO machinations before, during and since, it's hard to imagine who could be considered a disinterested observer and boards remove CEOs for disagreements over spending decisions all the time.

Frisch came here, as usual, to beat people up and Todd is a favored target. So am I. I see in the end Frisch decided not to dispute the IRS document that describes his particular tax misdeed being fraudulent without actually retracting his claim I lied when I called it tax fraud.

No, Frisch, I don't don't "revel in hurting people" as you claimed in your 06 June 2015 at 09:09 PM, but as you have learned I do hit back when attacked, and, once again, you were on the attack.

Todd, please don't take me as a fan of your rhetoric; I am pained by the jovial manner in which you fling crap hither and yon.

Paul Emery

Gregory

The circumstances regarding Todds early exit from CABPRO were being looked at by several local media outlets but was not run because it was considered insignificant. No crimes were committed so it was just regarded as an obscure palace scuffle.

Gregory

So, Paul, it wasn't "news" then, and it isn't "news" now? So what is it besides a snipe hunt that isn't any of your business other than you have a thing against Todd and vice versa? Your style of boxing... find a weak point and just keep jabbing at it even if it is below the belt?

Paul Emery

Gregory

If you knew anything about boxing you would know that it's virtually impossible jab below the belt. You would be better served to use uppercut instead of jab.

Todd Juvinall

Gregory, of course you are spot on about theFrisch. My rhetoric is just plain fun for me to spit out. So, I do. It is not my goal to be liked.

Paul Emery really has nothing because there is nothing. His sources are bogus as I said they would be. He simply is obsessed with me and that is truly creepy. Maybe he should pursue Jenner to accommodate his taste. I hear his financial situation is rather odd.

Bill Tozer

All right, time out. Multiple fouls, not all offsetting. Flags are being thrown everywhere.. Unneccary roughness, encroachment, unsportsmanlike conduct, roughing the kicker, the passer, Ref, and charging the stands to kick some spectators butts to Kingdom Come.
it is time for some of you to spend some time in the penalty box or perhaps back to the practice squad.

George Rebane

BillT 256pm - Thank you Mr Tozer.

Gregory

George, a stitch in time saves nine, and you're the only one with needle and thread.

Don Bessee

Ahhh fresh kitty litter, troll poop free so far! Barry- and a wonderful day to your family too sir! I see the fur ball is in fine form already with some snot and mud ball flinging. ;-) Good one Tozer.

George Rebane

Seems like we're somewhat agreed here. And since it takes at least two to tango, I would appreciate it if our stalwarts wouldn't mind holding themselves back, and watching a solo or two before jumping into ballroom dancing.

Todd Juvinall

That Samson was quite a guy. He was picked by GOD to be a Judge and then he strayed and came back later. There is a lesson there somewhere. LOL!

Paul Emery

I'm off to see John McCutchen do a musical and theatrical interpretation of the life of Joe Hill, great song writer.

Hill wrote in 1909. Not much has changed.

We will sing one song of the meek and humble slave,
The horn-handed son of the soil,
He's toiling hard from the cradle to the grave,
But his master reaps the profits from his toil.
Then we'll sing one song of the greedy master class,
They're vagrants in broadcloth, indeed,
They live by robbing the ever-toiling mass,
Human blood they spill to satisfy their greed.

Don Bessee

Well here are a couple of news items that may generate some conversations. The Turks have finally pulled their Prez Erdogan's fangs by dealing his party a massive blow by taking away their parliamentary majority. He can not now become dictator president as he had hoped to with undoing the existing constitution. He had been stretching the constitution by campaigning as a sitting president for a 60% share of parliament that would have given him total control, his gang got 40% so not even a majority anymore. This could present many benefits in the long term. ==== On another front, the head of Davis and Shriners burn centers has stated that about 10% of major burn cases are from Butane Honey Oil explosions. More than home fires and car wrecks combined!

fish

File under "Progressives Ruin Everything"!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-07/professor-speaks-out-how-coddled-hyper-sensitive-undergrads-are-ruining-college-lear

Bob Hobert

Al at 06:05 PM

You made me laugh! Thanks, as this group is so disagreeable they would stop arguing if told they must argue.

Don Bessee

Al at 6:05PM ??

Walt

I have been watching the usual news sources in Hawaii, and at least the ones I peruse,
have yet to tell of the state's pulling the lifer support plug on Obummercare.
I guess no one will really notice, since hardly a soul signed up for it. And "O"'s (uh?) home state*.

Account Deleted

Paul at 5:02 - hilarious. "He's toiling hard from the cradle to the grave"
The lay-abouts with their free cell phones, food stamps, section 8 vouchers, free health care, etc? Toiling? We know the govt steals from hard workers, please let us in on the 'robbers'. Since you can ID them and name their crimes, why haven't you turned them in? Crickets.

Account Deleted

Everyone should pay attention to this:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nra-gun-blogs-videos-web-forums-threatened-by-new-obama-regulation/article/2565762
It doesn't matter what you think of guns or gun control. The rule covers what is considered 'public information'. There is an ever tightening noose on free speach. It appears that they are trying to separate published information (hard copy) from digital info. Very dangerous.

Bob Hobert

Sorry Don - I was clumsily referring to a link from a link in this dialogue. Goes back to our dams, or lack thereof conversation. Here it is. -Bob H

"For the greater and progressive good, an earth friendly dam will be erected about a half mile below Nevada City.
Said dam will be 500 feet-tall, which would contribute two-trillion acre feet of wanted product in these dire dusty despondent times.

As a result, Ecotourism would also bring green to our area; imagine diving twixt the unreinforced manifest destiny contructs 'mongst the
happy fishes. It's a green-grow gold mine, I tell ya.

As the Climate Chaos worsens, an offstream impound would thence be sensitively-sited just below Grass Valley to be fair to the Queen.

Once the phased mitigated projects are approved, the new County Seat is projected to be The Five Mile House since they have demonstrated their multicultural leans and elevated elevation.

At Master Plan, the San Francisco-Golden Gate Dam, as currently centrally-planned, would enhance the environs from from Redding to Bakersfield. This friendly scheme would ensure the wants of the "just" Capitol, Los Angeles, and Mexico, I mean, SoCal.

You can trust that the voluntaries will be amply provided for in new lands and ample safe high green pedestrian-friendly abodes while groking with like-minded folks.

The future belongs for those of vision and you, my friend."

Posted by: Al | 29 August 2014 at 06:05 PM

Paul Emery

re Scot

If you would have read my post you would have easily noted that the Joe Hill song I quoted was written in 1909. Are you prepared to talk about the conditions of the working class in those days and how they compare to today?

Paul Emery

In case no one has noticed Obama's job rating has jumped 8 points in the Fox Poll in the last couple months.

http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_job.htm

Bill Tozer

Paul, I for one, did not notice. Thankyou for bringing this to my attention. Finally President Obama is getting some credit for all the wonderful things he has done to pull us closer together in this post racial era. Thankyou again. It's about time. BTY, I did notice last week that George W Bush's favorable ratings currently are now are higher than Obama's. A snapshot in time.

But, the real news is that the Yucca Moth is being threatened. This is too big for just California or a few states to handle on tts own. We need to divert water ASAP to the Mohave Desert like now. If we ever needed one of those Presidential Executive Orders it is today!! I am making my banner that reads Save the Night Lizard and plan to hang it over the overpass by Wednesday. Local media and even Channel 3, 10, and 13 news has been notified. The Kangaroo Rat needs water too. Water the desert now I say.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/drought-speeds-decline-beloved-california-desert-species-31599421

Account Deleted

re Paul at 11:12: "If you would have read my post you would have easily noted that the Joe Hill song I quoted was written in 1909."
Duh - "Hill wrote in 1909. Not much has changed."
Apparently Paul couldn't even remember what he had written.
I'll ask again, Paul - who are these 'toilers' and who are the 'robbers'? You're the one who said not much has changed.

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 08 June 2015 at 12:09 AM

Yeah....and all it took was continuing in the footsteps of GWB in the middle east, losing in court on amnesty and continuing to pursue your favorite treaty Paul.


I imagine that when it passes he'll be up 12 points.

Gregory

George (4:38PM) It's your blog and while it may take two to tango, it only takes one to start a war. If you're going to allow blog vistors to libel other blog visitors (in the past you've not always tolerated blog visitors defaming you), there will be fights.

In a recent discussion of local politics, I once again ran into someone who thought the Sierra Business Council was (get this) a council of business owners, in essence a sort of chamber of commerce of the Sierra. I can't blame them, that's what I thought at one time; it's what one might expect from the name.

It might be an interesting exercise to propose a name for the "Sierra Business Council" that is more descriptive, faithful to the truth yet not fall into caricature. A real, alternate name that, had they decided not to obfuscate their mission, they might have chosen themselves. I've tried, but my efforts tend to devolve into a sort of "Environmental Coercives R Us" trap.

fish

Posted by: Gregory | 08 June 2015 at 08:46 AM

It might be an interesting exercise to propose a name for the "Sierra Business Council" that is more descriptive, faithful to the truth yet not fall into caricature. A real, alternate name that, had they decided not to obfuscate their mission, they might have chosen themselves. I've tried, but my efforts tend to devolve into a sort of "Environmental Coercives R Us" trap.

Perhaps something along the lines of: "Purveyors of Fine Environmental and Regulatory Indulgences"?


Too much....?

Gregory

Fish, that's a byline not a business name, and I think you're falling into that trap I was warning against...

I am sort of serious... what would an honestly descriptive name be for an SBC?

fish

Posted by: Gregory | 08 June 2015 at 09:16 AM

I don't know.

From Steves description and some of the SBC press releases I think the "byline" is a facetious but not unreasonable description. Mr. Frisches description of comparison shopping for electrical components to keep the money local and various and sundry local "improvement" projects don't seem like activities that really require third party involvement between a business and business activity/project. "Climate Action Plan" preparation falls squarely into the "indulgence" category.

They do apparently do specific item business reports and projections so perhaps "Sierra Business Consultants" would suffice.

Sierra Business Council seems, as you stated earlier, something more along the lines of a chamber of commerce.

I guess I got nothing.

Paul Emery

OK Scott

First assignment study these charts so we can have some common ground as to the nature of the beast.

http://datatools.urban.org/Features/wealth-inequality-charts/

Fish, how Bush or Obama can even reach double digit support is beyond me. We need to dump the Republicratic party by voting third party.

Todd Juvinall

Lazy ass people want the working people to "spread the wealth". Am I hallucinating or are we really in the USSR?

George Rebane

Kudos to our George Boardman for his 8jun15 Union column. He again raises the fiscal cancer of unfunded pension liabilities that our county and city governments have (a problem long heralded and outlined in these pages); this is an issue that cannot be brought up too often these days. We recall that these cancerous pensions were installed by past supervisors and council members who knew absolutely nothing about how their handiwork would eventually metastasize. At the time those dummies just wanted peace and tranquility with their public employees so that the voters’ feathers would not be ruffled by inconvenient public employee strikes of slowdowns. In the final analysis it was, or course, we sheeple who elected the dummies and then paid no attention to what they were doing.

Mr Boardman’s recounting of his rejection by Nevada County Peeps brings a smile to my face. Here is a website that purports to be knowledgeable about Nevada County and local issues, and then has no idea of who prominent columnist George Boardman is because the man doesn’t maintain a Facebook page with a sufficiently informative profile. Boardman’s retort to his rejection revived Groucho Marx’s famous reply about his club memberships. My own takeaway is that it looks like Peeps may not be the all-knowing site on things local that it claims to be, and therefore Mr Boardman’s rejection will really make no never-mind to folks who pay attention to local happenings.

Anyway, the Boardman column is paywalled here –
http://www.theunion.com/opinion/16704168-113/george-boardman-pension-burden-threatens-to-crowd-out

PaulE 948am – Interesting site you cite as a basis for discussing income and wealth inequalities. I’d recommend that your discussants also look at some causal factors and familiarize themselves with the widely used Gini Index.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/03/our-new-course-is-declared.html

If you’re not careful, this discussion will become just another tiresome lap around ‘the rich are taking away what belongs to the poor’ zero-sum barn. Developing some objective causal factors for these inequalities that include culture, education, and government programs would help.

Paul Emery

George

I'm not looking for a solution here just pointing out the rather startling realities of income inequality and how it breaks down racially. The causes are deep, the solutions so far not effective.

Todd

There are many poor people who work very hard and find it impossible to get ahead because their earnings even if they work 80 hours a week will not support them or their families. These people are the opposite of "lazy ass".

Account Deleted

OK - so Paul says in 1909 there were 'toilers' and robbers' and since then not much has changed. I asked who the toilers and robbers are today and he can't do it. You brought it up, Paul. If you can't explain your own post, just admit it. I know folks have different incomes and wealth accumulation. Always have, always will. The facts are that as the govt increases intrusion and regulation into the market, the greater the wealth difference. That's what govt does. Happened in the 30's and it's happened again.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery 11:00 am
Then they are poor managers of their money. Jeeze, can you libs make any more excuses for people that just don't have the smarts? Besides, I sure would like to know what you libs mean by "income inequality" Do you want the poor to be handed enough money to be "equal" with Warren Buffet? Or George Soros? You see Paul Emery, you really have no idea what you are talking about or even what the solution to your make-believe problem might be.

The history of the world was changed by the birth of America and this country has afforded all an equal opportunity to succeed. Hell, we even pay for a free K-12 education and only half the urchins finish that freebie!

My guess is the libs such as yourself are just financial failures and want others to pick up their slack. No more excuses for their condition in this free and wonderful country. Stop the whining and get to work. Hell the "makers" transferred 20 trillion to the slackers and they are still in the same boat!

Paul Emery

"urchins" really Todd

Account Deleted

"There are many poor people who work very hard and find it impossible to get ahead because their earnings even if they work 80 hours a week will not support them or their families."
Yes - 'many'. But what percentage of the population? .0002%? How about we lower the cost of living? Why is the answer always hand out more money? I'm well aware of folks that pump out kids and then expect that some how magically, they are owed more and more money from society. How about graduating from at least high school and getting married and earn a good living and then having kids? That has nothing to do with how rich or poor you are, just what decisions you make. Poor people make poor decisions. Of course you can't raise a family flipping burgers. It's no different than expecting a horse to pull a freight train. The laws of physics are just the same as the laws of finance. There's nothing in the Bill Of Rights that says I can just do whatever and society owes me.

Paul Emery

Todd

"My guess is the libs such as yourself are just financial failures"

Since you are again resorting to personal attacks I again have to ask you how long did you collect unemployment insurance after your short tenure at CABPRO?

Account Deleted

Paul - can you contribute anything to the conversation?
Or discuss your original post?

Account Deleted

I guess Paul really doesn't want to discuss his original post. Just another troll, eh Paul?

Paul Emery

Sure Scott

Here's one example of the "robbers", the banksters. Lets start with this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/the-two-documents-everyon_b_169813.html

Bill Tozer

There are more excuses excusing bad behavior by the Enlightened Ones than a RX has Ritalin pills. Just like a bus, another excuse will be by shortly. Yet, excuses are not like anal cavities (which everyone has a least one), but in contrast, not everyone carries around excuses wherever they go.

There comes a time for the the intelligent ones in life at sundry and various ages when they realize there are no more victims, only volunteers.

You play real great music foot tapping barn burnin' music Paul and are a great event organizer. Perhaps you should stick to what you do best. Also, maybe you could lower the concert prices at the door on those events you have control over. You would not want to be accused of taking food out on the mouths of children of poor parents, now would you? Better still, you could pay them handsomely to attend.

Imagine Seth and Alexis sneaking off on a weekend night spending the last two nickels they have to rub together to attend one of your promotions with all that K Street hype and targeted advertising. They leave the kids at home without proper supervision, in an unhealthy environment, and with no nurishment to satisfy the little adorable ones' stomach growls.. It's Scandalous that you don't reach into your back pocket and pay them to attend. They need more money, Paul, and waving them in for free does not count. They want to be shown the green.

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 08 June 2015 at 11:30 AM


Paul at the height of the crisis the democrats, presumably the party of the "working man" and little people everywhere held the executive and legislative branches as well as the whip hand as whether or not to rein in the banking sector by letting banks fail or saving them through the granting of taxpayer largesse. Laws were on the books that would have allowed prosecution of the banks and their directors where evidence of fraud and malfeasance existed.

Why didn't they pursue a single significant prosecution?

Todd Juvinall

Pail Emery, I have never been on unemployment insurance. You have though eh? Try harder. Now, answer my points about "income inequality" solutions you support. But you won't, you are just a troll bloviator. No solutions from the left for anything but a lot of envy. I am personal;ly tired of the whining and complaining by people like you regarding money. If those poor would stop having so many out of wedlock kids, get a diploma from our free education system and get married, perhaps they would "succeed" what ever that means to a liberal like you.

My goodness, we already spend 12,000 bucks a year to educate the urchins and they still can't get a diploma.

George Rebane

PaulE 1130am - this debate is proceeding as predicted (cf my 1030am), and you are promoting its progress in a most sophomoric manner since there will be nothing new introduced. From your citation the FBI contended that "nonprime lenders are overwhelmingly responsible for the (default) epidemic". But then who were those nonprime lenders goaded by Congress to make loans to people who demonstrably could or would not service the loans? None other than the government's own Fannie and Freddie.

These considerations are added to the fact that both Congress were then and government agencies are still run by overwhelmingly liberal managers hewing to the Democrat party line (make home ownership affordable to those who cannot afford it). Putting a Republican president into office and expecting him to also mind that level of detail with his temporary staff is not only unrealistic, but also a specious argument on its face. That is one of the prime reasons we are way beyond the tipping point of corralling Leviathan - the tens of thousands of progressive bureaucratic sinecures simply will not have it. As Koskinen and Lerner of the IRS have made it clear, 'Fuck the people!'

Walt

If one is not "well off", it's their own fault. There is no conspiracy to keep someone from doing well. One achieves only when works to get there. yup, sometimes they fail.
But some people think it should be given to them. ( Uh,, NOT going to happen) Take from "Mr. Rich" and just hand it over. I say "F" U!
Sitting on the couch whining and smoking a bong will get you nowhere.

Those OWS idiots are funny. Piss and moan about the 1%, but isn't that why they got collage degrees? To make the big bucks? Who's fault was it to get degrees in things there are no real jobs for? ( yet they bitch)

Bill Tozer

Somewhere on a galaxy far, far away:
"I know, I know the answer!!!!" The young freshman gleefully exclaimed as he waved his hand high so the professor would notice the beaming proud student.
"And what is your answer?" the professor finally responded. Yes, it seemed like an eternity to the student, especially having to hold back such hot off the press delicious breaking news.
"We should tax the rich, raise the FICA tax limit on the rich, tax what they own in addition to taxing what they earn, make the, pay addition taxes to fund homeles shelters, create special taxes to.."
The good professor interrupted "And, who are the rich?"
"I know, I know the answer!!", the student shot back almost jumping out of his chair. "The rich are those who make more than me!!"
"You mean like your parents and older siblings?", the professor pressed.
"No, not like them" the freshman replied with his head down hiding a big lower lip.

Account Deleted

Hilarious, Paul. I can see why you really didn't want to talk about your post. You come up with a jay walking type of crime. How about the guy at the top?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Raines
The govt set in motion the whole home loan fraud business by telling banks to make more loans to folks who couldn't afford them or face all kinds of govt wrath. It was the Dems that told the regulators to back off any investigations. The Dems openly protected F Raines and the other fraudsters, including the millions of citizens that colluded with the banks in perpetuating the frauds. Instead the govt called the perps victims and gave them money to bail them out.
I'm well aware of the fact there are 'robbers' and it's usually the govt or govt abetted robbers. This is old news. If you want to start putting folks in jail for fraud, let's start at the top and get to the root of the problem. The California govt is one big fraud. Illegal taxes, taxes on top of other taxes, illegal diversion of funds from dedicated acounts, bait and switch bond propositions and on and on. I can avoid private enterprise crooks, but I can't avoid the crooked govt gun.
Now, who are the toilers? Please don't tell me it's the over weight idiots that have never worked a day in their life walking around with protest signs complaining that the govt hasn't given them enough of my money.

Paul Emery

George

Scott wanted an example of "robbers" and I provided one, nothing more. George, a simple historical note is that the Repubs held both houses of Congress from 1994 to 2006 and the Presidency from 2000-2008, plenty of time for them to make their mark to prevent this from happening. Why in your opinion were they unable to do that?

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 08 June 2015 at 12:54 PM


If they were "robbers" why weren't they prosecuted?

Paul Emery

Fish 11:59

I cannot agree with you more when you wrote

"Why didn't they (Dems) pursue a single significant prosecution?" Do you think the Repubs would have had they been in control? Not one "bankster" has been indicted in this whole mess. Fines against banks? Sure, not amounting to much more than a parking ticket and besides they are tax deductible.

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 08 June 2015 at 01:00 PM

Your default position is that the Republicans, or "Pubbers" as you quaintly label them, are wholly owned by business interests. I'll not dispute that point. As I said, the democrats as the "party of the people/little guy/downtrodden" had a window in which they could have corrected many of the problems in the banking sector. Why didn't they?

You linked to the article by Bill Black. Back when he was involved with the S&L mess they sent people to prison, they forced businesses into receivership? Why wasn't this done when "most progressive administration in history™" was in control of all the levers of power?

I was just curious as to why the "most progressive administration in history™" handled scofflaws and bad actors with such kid gloves? Guy who doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding receives the full brunt of government force.....Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon meet, dine and are warmly received by this the "most progressive administration in history™"?

Walt

Paul forgets that many banks didn't want to take those loans. The "G" man said " OH yes you are!
Banks didn't want to take bailout money. Again they were forced to.

Funny.. paul trying to pin LIB failures on repubs.. That's never going to fly here.

Walt

Fish.. LIB donors don't go to jail. ( yup, that includes the bank boys)
Hell! look at the FED reserve. Just who is running that show? yup,, LIBS.

Paul Emery

Walt

Are you contending that the crash of 08 would not have happened had the Repubs been in control of
Congress?

Paul Emery

Fish writes "I was just curious as to why the "most progressive administration in history™" handled scofflaws and bad actors with such kid gloves? "

Once again I agree with you. In your view would the Repubs handled it differently?

Paul Emery

Expanding on: "Your default position is that the Republicans, or "Pubbers" as you quaintly label them, are wholly owned by business interests."

My "default" position is that both parties are wholly owned by business interests. Best example being Obama and the Republican mainstream marching together carrying the flag of the TPP. No differences there. Only the true conservatives and progressives stand in their way which is not enough to stop the parade.

Ben Emery

The financial sector owns the leadership of both the Democratic and Republican Party's. That is why Hillary is the favorite of 2016 Presidential race. That is why Obama had the money to easily defeat both McCain and Romney. That is why under the Obama administration the banks have gotten more concentrated, more powerful, and a hell of a lot more wealthier.

Clinton and the Republican Party pushed through the deregulation of the financial sector and Bush and the Republican Party let the remaining regulations go unchecked for 8 years exacerbating the crisis to the heights it came to be. While opening up more and more loopholes for big business to stash their profits offshore without penalties.

These companies are as anti American as it gets are just a small taste of what a real Free Market would feel and look like.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/top-10-corporate-tax-avoiders

"1. General Electric

From 2008 to 2013, while GE made over $33.9 billion in United States profits, it received a total tax refund of more than $2.9 billion from the Internal Revenue Service.

G.E.’s effective U.S. corporate income tax rate over this six year period was -9 percent.

In 2012, GE stashed $108 billion in offshore tax havens to avoid paying income taxes. If this practice were outlawed, GE would have paid $37.8 billion in federal income taxes that year.

During the financial crisis, the Federal Reserve provided GE with $16 billion in financial assistance, at a time when its CEO Jeffrey Immelt was a director of the New York Federal Reserve.

GE has been a leader in outsourcing decent paying jobs to China, Mexico and other low-wage countries.

Mr. Immelt has a retirement account at General Electric worth an estimated $59 million and made $19 million in total compensation last year.

He is a member of the Business Roundtable, a group that wants to raise the eligibility age for Medicare and Social Security to 70, cut Social Security and veterans’ benefits, increase taxes on working families, and cut corporate taxes even further....... "

fish

In your view would the Repubs handled it differently?

Don't know....not a republican?

Paul Emery

Fish

You're not a Democrat either but they fall under your harsh scrutiny. I'm wondering why not the Republicans?

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 08 June 2015 at 02:22 PM

Indeed.....you as a non-democrat can reliably be depended on to go after the republicans and I as a non-republican can be reliably depended on to go after the democrats.

A lovely example of the "balance of nature".

Gregory

I know college graduates handed diplomas they can't read. Well known institutions. But they were also handed translations from the Latin.

Without the Government Sponsored Entities Fannie and Freddie, there probably would have not been a crash in 2008. Without the push to make more loans to folks who would otherwise not have access to such large loans (because on the face of it, no one in their right mind would make the loan with their own money if they cared it got paid back), the crash would not have happened. While the GOP are no angels, they aren't the devils who engineered Fannie, Freddie or subprime loans, those were all Democratic Party sacred cows with Fannie dating from the New Deal.

Walt

Paul.. Just who's bright idea was it to loan people money just because they had a pulse?
Who was it that said "home ownership is a right."?
You can lay the problem at the feet of Dodd/Frank.
You wanna play the Blame Bush game? He gave the LIBS everything they wanted. LIBS had both houses. Good GOD man. read some unrevised history for a change.

And why in Hell are we dragging this dead horse through the brush again?

There is better things still with meat on the bone. Like the sky high cost of health care thanks to "O" and Co. and it keeps going up. Not quite what was advertized.

Paul Emery

Walt

The "libs" had both houses only for the last two years of his run. He controlled it all for the first six. Are you saying bush had no responsibility for the crash?

Walt

How come you hold the LIBS blameless Paul? Dodd/ Frank Paul,,, Dodd/Frank.

Paul Emery

You must not read what I write Walt! I hold the Republicratic Party responsible. That's the whole friggin mess we call government that we are inflicted with. You seem to be a genetic Republican like Todd that thinks if the Repub wing of the fat bird were in control everything would be hooray. How you as a so called Conservative can support those that will soon inflict the TPP upon us is beyond my comprehension.

George Boardman

There's plenty of blame to go around here.

While Clinton started the ball rolling, the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress in the first six years of the reign of Bush II. So why didn't they remove the punch bowl from the party? Because their Wall Street buddies were making too much money packaging toxic mortgages into financial instruments that could be sold to gullible and/or careless investors.

And it was Bush II who started the bailouts after the collapse of Lehman Brothers, a policy that continued after Obama took office. (I hate to break the news to those of you who opposed them, but the bailouts prevented a far worse debacle and actually made a profit for the taxpayers.)

Why didn't Obama prosecute the worst actors? Certainly the CEOs of outfits like Countrywide Mortgage and Washington Mutual were candidates for long stretches in a federal prison. When you looks at the settlements, fines, penalties and legal fees JP Morgan Chase has paid over the last seven years, you can make the case it's a criminal enterprise and that it's CEO, Jamie Dimon, should be prosecuted under the RICO Act.

But as we all know, you can get away with just about anything if have enough money and the right connections.

George Rebane

The crash of 2008 was baked in by the beginning of the Bush2 administration when Congress led by Barney Frank et al demogauged the granting and guaranteeing mortgages for the poor, and fulfillment of the longstanding liberal flagship Community Reinvestment Act. Under this aegis Fannie, Freddie, and the FHA all became co-conspirators to abandon standard measures of prudent lending risk, and, with a nod and wink from liberals in Congress, transfer that risk to the taxpayer.

With such guarantees in place, banks were urged to fulfill the CRA and begin lending. Being good capitalists with such guarantees backing them up, they leaped in as the 'government sponsored enterprises' Freddie and Fannie gleefully bought up all the sub-prime mortgages they could handle. Then started the repackaging and resale of these mortgages in an environment in which no one knew the risk or value of anything, save that the GSEs would take care of any hiccups. The most plausible explanation of what happened (covered here before) can be revisited at
http://spectator.org/articles/42211/true-origins-financial-crisis

However, I don't think people of the Left will deviate from their now well-worn 'greedy banks' narratives. With such a simple explanation, no one there wants to take a look at the complete sequence of events.

And to show what power Congress has over the federal bureaucracies, consider what a Republican Congress has demanded and received from the IRS (Tea Party scandal) and State (Benghazi scandal). The Leviathan is under different management and out of control - see Murray's 'By the People'.

fish

(I hate to break the news to those of you who opposed them, but the bailouts prevented a far worse debacle and actually made a profit for the taxpayers.)


Yes....by all means keep deluding yourself about how much better we all are because the financial system was saved by the government!

Jeez....somebody check Georges meds!

fish

In which both a reporter and presidential candidate demonstrate that they're clueless about economics....


Describing a scene that took place during a short Q&A with reporters after his Saturday speech, the WSJ reported on what it considered the "unorthodox" style of Sanders as he engaged with the press corps in ways most candidates do not:

A Swedish reporter, Anne-Sofie Naslund, asked him a question, and Mr. Sanders—who has long praised the type of social democracy practiced in Scandinavian countries, turned the tables and began interviewing her.

He asked her what it cost for people to get health care in Sweden.

“Like nothing,” Ms. Naslund said.

And what does it cost to go to college? Mr. Sanders asked.

“Nothing,” she said.

Child care? “It’s almost free,” she said.

“That’s pretty good!” Mr. Sanders exclaimed.

Though well-known in New England, Sanders' latest stop in the early-primary state signaled his campaigns desire to prove he can be competitive against Hillary Clinton, who retains a commanding lead in national polls. Towards the end of his remarks, a large cheer echoed through the hall when Sanders leaned in and said he had a secret to tell: "We are going to win New Hampshire."


Yeah.....healthcare...child care....college........all freeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Walt

Goes to show, in Paul's eyes LIBS can do now wrong. " Bush did it". All by himself.
Gov. guaranteed loans to those, that any other time, lenders would give the bums rush too, and for good reason. "G" man: " Ya,, we know plenty really don't have the ability to pay it back,, but make the loan anyway. "WE"(the taxpayer) got you covered."
Then the defaults came in by the train load.. Bank bailouts anyone? I guess that was the Repubs fault too. " TOO BIG TO FAIL".
How bout GM? Do tell Paul,, how bad did the taxpayers take it in the shorts? Not to mention private bond holders? Stock holders? "O" and Co. decided who got repaid. ( and mostly LIB friends) Our family got the shaft with NO recourse.( thousands in prefered stocks... GONE)
Only Obummer donors who had dealerships got to stay open. Funny how that worked.

The list of crony Obummer shenanigans is far to long to list.

All the way up to today. the unemployment number has been slow cooked professionally in the BBQ pit. Nice and tender. The American worker has been shitcanned and replaced by cheap illegal labor.(ooppsss "amnestied") More people than ever on food satmps, and PLENTY not by choice.
More people than in the great depression are out of work. But UP is stated at 5.5.
I guess Bush is responsible for that too. Speaking of Bush,, seems the people want him back. Bush has a higher approval rating the "O". ( published last week by CNN of all places)

Paul Emery

George

Are you saying that despite controlling Congress from 1994-2006 and the Presidency from 2000-2008 the Republicans were HELPLESS to do anything about the coming crisis?

Walt

It doesn't matter Paul, You can play the "IF" game all you like. LIBS have systematically
trashed the U.S.
That's LIBS have lost elections hand over fist. The people really HATE the "fundamental transformation of America". Yup,, "O" sure kept THAT campaign promise.

If "O" likes it, it is bad for America.

Bill Tozer

OMG, gag me with a spoon. Here we go again, exactly as Dr. Rebane predicted. Somebody throw Paul a bone for Heaven's sake. Day after day, month after month, year after year Paul is tortured, haunted, and lives in constant frustration because some of us will not come down on the Right as hard as we do on recent or current news (which being current usually means the current Administration and current events and current posts by Dr. Rebane).

Obama just did this or that. Paul's reply always is Bush did it too. Public education doing down the tubes, income inequality growing wider, climate change, what have you and we all can count on Paul to pound his spoon and throw his food and dump his cereal all over the high chair until someone says "Yes, Paul, Bush did it too and the Republican legislatures have blood on their hands as well on every topic from the Whiskey Rebellion, to the Tea Pot Dome Scandal, to Monica's DNA stained blue dress. In sum, we ignore history by not coming down on the Right and especially not coming down of President George W Bush on a daily basis.
Well, at least Paul is consistent, I must give him that. Must be rough living in constant frustration spinning that same broken record for eternity. Some might call that a living hell. His head is becoming a bad neighborhood.
Dr. Rebane, Mr. Boardman, somebody pleazzzzzzee toss Paul some red meat or pull out Granny's old peacemaker and put that rabid dog out of its misery. It would be the merciful thing to do. May God have mercy on his tortured soul.

George Rebane

PaulE 439pm - Responding to you in light of Mr Tozer's 539pm, it would be ingenuous to claim that had Bush2 and Congress suddenly focused preemptively on the housing market, then they could have done something to divert ('stop' is too strong a term) the fiscal train wreck. But any effort to do that would have generated howls of elitism from the Left accusing Republicans of denying the little guy an opportunity to live the American dream - you have to judge things by what was happening then, not in what you see in your rear view mirror now.

Most certainly any overt action to intervene in a booming market putting so many of the poor into positions to benefit from the real estate boom like the big guys would have launched a thousand law suits, and possibly street demonstrations. And finally, you have to acknowledge that Bush2 was also more than tinged by progressivism, he believed his own press clippings when reading in the paper of how he had pulled the country out of the Clinton recession (and global jihadism) when he walked into the Oval Office in 2001.

We had and still have the same thing going on with Obamacare, an easily presaged disaster for the nation that continues to get worse by the week no matter how much the Dems and lamestream keep saluting it, and Obama keeps up his unconstitutional re-legislation of the law as each new bombshell goes off. Question - why doesn't Obama just allow the plug to be pulled on Obamacare and let the country find a workable solution to the nation's healthcare problems as have been countlessly detailed over the last four years? Bet that question will be handled by the CCC (Collectivists' Cricket Corps).

Account Deleted

from G Boardman - "There's plenty of blame to go around here."
Hey - that's my line, word for word from several years ago. OK - still true.
Look - it was the govt that decided to push banks to make stupid loans. I think you'll find that there were quite a bit more Dems than Rs to think that was a good idea. And when it became clear that things were getting out of hand, it was the Dems that said quite firmly that anyone trying to stop it was a racist. Raines was firmly in bed (financially, you dirty minded creeps) with quite a few Dems, including B Frank. The Dems protected Raines to the end and only Rs were trying to stop the mess.
Why didn't Bush try to do something? Simple. Right from the top on down to the thousands of crooked home owners, at least 1/2 of the ones indicted would be black. Every network and all of the Dems would be screaming that Bush was destroying black home owners and was afraid of powerful black men. It would have been incessent. The drum beat would have been daily that Bush was trying to put all of black America in jail. Bush didn't need that. He could never have won the issue. The Dems would have driven the issue to rioting and mayhem. The TV news would have had daily video of blacks being kicked out of their homes and some off to jail.
So, yes, I blame the govt. No bank said: "Hey, let's make stupid loans". That was the govts bright idea. Once it got going, there were plenty of 'banks' that were started up to do nothing more than than home loan fraud. And plenty of idiot and greedy folks to line up for their shot at the get rich quick schemes involved with interest-only balloon payment due in 2 or 3 years loans. I watched it unfold. I watched the interviews with greedy lawyers that had cashed out their retirements to buy crappy condos in Las Vegas because in 2 years they would sell for 50% more than whatever they paid for them that day. I watched interviews with folks that couldn't read and had no idea what they were doing who had signed contracts to buy a home because "it was their last chance" to get a home. Anyone who signs a contract and doesn't understand it sets themselves up for ruin. Plenty of blame, but it all started with the fed govt. It would never have happened if the govt had just stayed out of it.
And finally: "Clinton and the Republican Party pushed through the deregulation of the financial sector and Bush and the Republican Party let the remaining regulations go unchecked for 8 years exacerbating the crisis to the heights it came to be."
The only problem is there was no 'deregulation' of the financial sector.
But like all big lies, the left just can't let go and loves to repeat it endlessly. I'm not saying Ben is lying - he has repeated it so often he thinks it's true. In fact, he admits there were 'remaining' regulations. If there are no regulations, how can any remain? So, there were no regulations except the ones mysteriously remained and then there was no enforcement of anything. Got that?

Walt

Ah yes.. The building boom. I was THERE!! ( literally) We couldn't build house pads, roads and infrastructure fast enough. 12 hour days, six days a week. The houses were getting slapped together the minute the pad was level. Then came the prospective buyers, before the asphalt was put down. Many in cars crappyer than mine. That's when I knew there was a problem. Just how can someone afford "that" house, yet drive an escapee from the wrecking yard? Back then us equipment operators didn't have radios to listen to during the day.
(a safety hazard they say) I was ready to drop dead at the end of the day and didn't pay that much attention. But I did hear the ads for those wild ass loans. Being the money watcher I am, I knew better than to get suckered into deferred payments and whatever
other money tricks they were playing.
Back to the questionable people looking at 300,000 dollar homes. I saw the writing on the
wall.. THIS will not end well. Save every penny possible and buy gold while it was cheap.
(about 275 bucks or so back then.)
Yup,, The shit hit the fan. It didn't take a genius to see it coming.
But it did take a LIB to say,, 'What just happened?"

Walt

As for Obummercare,,, this is where the Tea Party says,,, " WE told you so..."

Paul Emery

So George you are saying that Bush didn't have the leadership abilities to withstand the "howls" from the left to exercise his better judgement and at least warn the American people of what was to come. In 2006 President Bush named Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson to be the Treasury Secretary, succeeding John Snow.He was a gem for sure. Goldman Sachs received 12.9 billion AIG money -- where then-Treasury Secretary Paulson had previously worked as chief executive. Comeone George, this was under Bushes watch. You can't make thos stuff up.

Robbers, theives crooks and none were ever brought to justice bu EITHER administration.

I am not a supporter of Obamacare so don't look at me to defend it.

Walt

Damn Paul,, you think really highly of thy self. Your not the only LIB on these here pages.

Funny thing about the FED. "O" and Co. talk trash about Wall St. and banks, yet that the first place they go whoring for money at election time.
Yet you only harp on Bush. Bush can't hold a candle to what "O" has done.

Account Deleted

Paul and the lefties consistantly ignore the fact that this was the govt sticking it's nose into a place it shouldn't have. We had a perfectly good system that asked for a sensible down to make sure you had skin in the game and loan requirements that mandated a good chance you could come up with the monthly payment and still keep your nose above water.
But. Not enough folks could afford a home to suit the govt. So. We lower the price... strike that. We just tell the banks to make stupid loans.
And ACORN made sure everyone with a pulse knew you could wander into a bank and demand a loan or you'd go to the local activist office and scream racism or whatever. I heard the ads. I saw the wind up. I saw the incredible prices and stupid pitches. I saw it coming and held my head. Are they nuts? Yep. They're nuts, and now you're paying for it.
Raines didn't go to jail. He walked away with 10s of millions. He defrauded the American taxpayers. The left won't speak his name. We had geniuses in govt such as Maxine Waters saying that home prices never go down. We had B Frank telling the Rs to lay off of Raines and yes, the lynching term was thrown out. And what about that fellow that used to be a gov of New Jersey? No one on the left even knows his name or what he did. Oh, yes. You don't support the Dems or the Rs but strangely only R names are mentioned. Never any Dems. And the American public is never called to the carpet. Only Bush and a few folks from Wall Street are named by the left. There was no deregulation. There were stupid govt regulations. And then B Frank who helped bring about this disaster got to 'fix' it with more regulations. It's putting the smaller banks out of business and helping the largest banks make money than ever.
Keep it up, nit wits. And the next time the big banks need money, the taxpayers will bail them out again.

Walt

No offence to our good Doc. ( got to get the disclaimer out early on this one.)

Seems some scientists need to take closer looks before jumping to conclusions.
I'll just figure these are the same kind that believe in AGW .

Just because it looks like a bullet hole doesn't make it so.
It seems it took some low tech cops to figure this one out.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/29269829/hole-in-door-at-mauna-kea-telescope-not-from-bullet

Paul Emery

I guess you're right Scott. Bush hires Paulson to be our financial chief (Treasure Secretary) then two years later bails out the company he worked for for 15 Billion of taxpayers money . Not a big deal. Thanks for assuring me.

Gregory

Boardman 3:45, Paul Emery multiple cites

Such superficial reasoning, you both should be ashamed of yourselves.

Here's a handy chart showing the House and Senate majority party, their margin, and what party held the Presidency:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress#/media/File:Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png

Gingrich did a bang up job over four years considering he had to get Clinton to sign any legislation and he barely had a majority but after Gingrich was hounded out of office, Hastert saw the handwriting on the wall. The new normal was the GOP would vote for Dem spending and vice versa, and Dem sacred cows included Fannie, Freddie and easy qualification for home loans by low income Democrats. The last Century was a story of domination by Democrats with the GOP not having 60% of the Senate since the early 1920's.

In my entire lifetime, a GOP president has had a *bare* majority in the House and the Senate for only six years: two years under Eisenhower, and four years of Bush II (the last half of his first term and the first half of his second) but the 2008 crash had Pelosi & Reid in full control of the legislature for nearly two years before the collapse.

I am pained to have to stand up for the GOP here: I've never registered GOP and remain more of a Scoop Jackson, Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Clean Gene McCarthyite at my core. But Dems are so bloody adept at trying to bring the GOP in to take blame for Democratic garbage.

Walt

Save your breath Gregory, Paul only cares about what evils he thinks the Right has done. That's all that matters.
His LIBS can do no wrong. Hay Paul. your working off Reagan's own commandment. ( highjacked if it were) " Thou shalt not speak ill of another LIB". ( Reagan said Republican)

Ben Emery

To end this stupid debate, both parties are owned by the banks/ financial sector. The D's got the nod because it was very obvious who was going to control the federal government and create the so called "reform" that was going to put the reins back on the backs. It didn't happen. We do not have any form of democracy we have a corporatocracy or a form of oligarchy at this point. Not a bad return on investment $143 million and some change and the received back in return QE one, two, and three. In 2009 the banks in the US gave themselves a record $150 billion in bonuses.
http://ourfinancialsecurity.org/2009/12/wall-street-bonuses-could-fund-an-economic-recovery-for-millions-of-americans/

The Financial Sector topped contribution in 2008 with

Finance, Insurance & Real Estate
Total- $143,339,258

Democrats-$78,280,080

Republicans- $64,905,817

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/sectorall.php?cycle=2008

Bill Tozer

Ok, I will have mercy upon my fellow traveler who is a spiritual being having a human experience, the one and only Mr. Paul Emery. Paul, here is a clip to watch. Mr. Bill Moyers no less. Keep in mind this is only one angle of the diamond, but it is very informative. Also, if you can find Paulson's own words on his insights, it is lile being a fly on the wall in the infamous smoked filled room of the inner circle, but I digress.

Too Big to Fail, a link I once posted, now has a sequel, Too Big To Fail and Getting Bigger., FYI

Think it says 1/2 hr, but it ain't that long for sure. Maybe 19 minutes. Why has no one gone to jail, explained by the man who put 1,000 bankers of US bankers in jail. Peace.

http://billmoyers.com/episode/too-big-to-jail/

Gregory

Ben Emery, don't you get ever get tired of repeating your discoveries that everyone else figured out decades ago? The golden rule has always been those with the gold make the rules.

Bill Tozer

Ben, pity we agree on so much and are unable to communicate that effectively. Now let me see if I understand both Emerys precisely.

A). The Republican suck because there the party of the rich overlords.
B). The Democratics continue the policies of the Republicans when they hold power and vise versa, leading us to the term.....
C). Republcrats. Both are bedfellows of big money donors and the whole shebang is corrupted beyond imagination.
D). Solution is 3rd Party.

Gee Wally, this is like playing Marco Polo. Am I getting hotter or colder? Marco.

First, Ben, it is not really a stupid argument of who farted first because facts are being presented. I like that. But, yes, a new socially conscience 3rd Party would make this whole enchilada seem like a stupid argument. We know assuredly that under this new people first party, these banking scandals and trickery will never happen.

I am all for a new party. A lot of posters here are. But, what you envision and what I daydream about concerning this new political party are miles apart. It's not just about voting 3rd Party is send a stupid message. Nay, it is all about what kind of 3rd Party? Bull Moose, George Wallace, Raplh Nader, Ross Perot, Jesse Jackson, commie pinkos, greens, ???????? The Emery Party does have a nice ring to it.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present the other half of The Dynamic Duo, Mr. Ben Emery.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d3RlIjj8l-Q

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