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16 July 2015

Comments

Don Bessee

It was there shall be no State Religion in the context of the Church of England. For a cookie (not from maryjanes) how many times does God have a reference in the founding docs and does it acknowledge we got some things? It certainly does not say anywhere I must not eat during ramadan any more than it says I may not have public devotion. If the seiks can carry a dagger then my cross can be on my dorm room door at the Air Force Academy which now has a wicken pit out in the forest, believe it or not. So more bs and no engagement on the real issue of the dead Americans from scum that should have not been let in (much less 7 times in one case). Non-Native born residence is a privilege.

Account Deleted

from jo-jo at 6:11: "Then please share with us a fairytale where once upon a time this country was founded on Christianity."
Our nation was founded by Christians and they wove standard orthodox Christian values and understandings deeply within the underpinnings of the law and the basic tenets of our type of government. They required only that there be no 'official' religion of the country. They did not want to have any religion of any kind to be able to control the public directly with the authority and power of the federal govt. The states were free to establish an official religion.
We see today the left using the fed and state governments to advance the religion of Gaia.

Steven Frisch

"The states were free to establish an official religion."

Under the establishment clause which prohibits the favoring of one religion over another states would not be free to establish an official religion.

Ben Emery

A person doesn't have to go any further than the first treaty of the US to understand that the US is not a Christian nation. They did not want the government they set up to be corrupted by organized religion and they didn't want organized religion to be corrupted by government.

Ben Emery

Scott,
Are you trying to make a 10th amendment argument for establishing an official religion?

joe smith

Scott (and Todd) just exactly what do you NOT understand about the separation of church and state?? Coming of age in Ireland I have have a VERY distinct notion of the separation that you good old boys born and bred within the confines of a white America have nary a clue. Put a sock in it until you have actually experienced the world view. If ignorance is bliss, you must be some happy fellows indeed.

Account Deleted

"Are you trying to make a 10th amendment argument for establishing an official religion?"
No - are you trying to make haberdashery a mandatory profession?
"Scott (and Todd) just exactly what do you NOT understand about the separation of church and state??"
I dunno - probably nothing. Are you referring to the 1st amendment?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." - please point out where this separation thingie is.

Todd Juvinall

joe smith | 19 July 2015 at 09:31 PM

So let me get this straight. You came of age in Ireland where there is nary a person of a color other than white and say "white America"? Are you daft? America is all races on the planet under one roof here you cracker. Besides, White Irish plantation owners were into slavery for a long time in the south and they were democrats. Jeeze! What a load you dump Joe Smith,

Regarding history and the US Constitution. You have no idea what the "eperation" means or where it comes from. Go find out, then slap yourself more silly than you are.

Bill Tozer

Scott, the term "separation of church and state" first hit the news in the 1800's via a Supreme Court ruling. The phrase cannot be found in the founding documents.

Todd Juvinall

Darn it BillT, we wanted the lib JoeS to go find it. LOL!

joe smith

Bill 728 and Todd-
The term Separation of Church and State was first voiced in a speech by Jefferson in 1802 that was reprinted in a local newspaper. Some 80 years LATER the Supreme Court cited his words and stated that they were an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the First Amendment. If you are going to pretend to be factual, at least use facts.

George Rebane

Re 'Separation of Church and State' - there are many aspects to this phrase with regard to the Constitution and constitutional governance. The discussion above is all over the map ranging from who said what to the legality of displaying religious symbols and texts on public buildings and property. I wish the discussants would focus on one aspect so that the boundaries of their beliefs can at least be outlined.

One thing is clear from the physical evidence available in every city and town across the land - our ancestors did not consider the expressions of any one faith on public property to be the joining of church and state. But they did consider it an expression of the people's religion(s) regarding justice, morality, law, etc that intersected with government. And by doing so, it legitimized government and created a more intimate relationship between government and the governed.

Today the expunging of religious symbols and words from public properties abets the view that government is 'them over us' instead of it being the beneficial organization of 'us' to handle our collective cares.

Jon

George, you're certainly welcome to question the mayor of Seattle about any proposal specific to Muslim residents, but I would think you would tend to emulate the economic powerhouse they have going up there. The city and environs are booming with economic growth. Rather than mocking one proposal, I would more be interested in finding out their secret to success.

I'm sitting back in amazement at the rest of the dog whistle commentary on this thread. Its pretty clear many of you would prefer a Christian Theocracy within these borders.

Don Bessee

More comic stylings from the 'jon @1010- Trying to give the socialists in Seattle credit for Boeing and Microsoft is a big joke and there you go again with more straw man arguments with the Christian theocracy that no one here brought up other than you. I think the EPA needs to regulate your carbon output considering the amount of hot air you blow that has nothing to add or is related to the topics.

Todd Juvinall

joe smith | 20 July 2015 at 09:46 AM

You obviously have no knowledge on the origin of the term "separation of church and state" JoeS. It was in a letter from Jefferson to a Church. You have to be a public school graduate. There is no words like that in the Constitution. It amazes me the liberal brain thinks the Federalist Papers mean nothing yet when it comes to a issue they like, then by all means they mean what they say. Being a Irishman as you said, my guess is it is not your fault that you are ignorant, so I will overlook the lack of knowledge you possess. I would surmise your claiming I don't know about the First Amendment scope is just snark.

However, I would surmise you don't feel the same about the Second Amendment reagrding "arms" right?

George Rebane

JoeS 946am - It's hard for me to conceive the way you have ordered the world in your mind. As DonB 1213pm observes, it's a stretch to attribute the capitalistic success of the Puget Sound area to socialists. Due to the region's recent leftward course, companies (e.g. Boeing) are locating their headquarters and expansions out of state. And searching for future economic growth through the attraction of Sharia-observing Muslims boggles the mind - but, of course, not yours.

And inducing that my remarks represent yearnings for a Christian theocracy is so far beyond the pale that it truly starts bringing out the humor in these exchanges. Thanks again for illustrating that there is no middle ground left between our polarized ideologies. Perhaps a more fruitful discourse would be an attempt to identify how such widely different belief systems can beneficially coexist within common national boundaries.

Bill Tozer

Why are we even discussing church and state when the topic is moderate Muslim runs a mock, turns into raghead?? Simple. It's because of the Muslim problem. With all the churches and places of worship representing countless sects, groups, organizations, and associations of every imaginable belief from the 4 Corners of the globe, why do we have just one religion pushing the envelop??? Just one. We are not talking about the Quakers or Shakers here.
The Muslim problem is interesting because it pushes the limits of most people's tolerance level and stretches the limits of the Bill of Rights. Just one religion.

About the only poll I read of American Muslims was about 6 months or so ago. 60% of the American Muslims polled said they want Shira Law to be the law of the land.

Now, what do we do with that???????????

George Rebane

BillT 227pm - Mr Tozer, please tell me that your memory is in much better shape than that. Unless you were sleep-reading 'The Tangled Threads of Our Times', you were exposed to a more recent poll right here under which you even recorded some enthusiastic repartees ;-)
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2015/06/the-tangled-threads-of-our-times.html

Bill Tozer

Sorry good doc. I thought that thread was about liberal/progressive/totalatarian forms of iron fisted government worship. Now I see you were talking about ragheads, not far left purple lefties. It"s sooooooooooooo hard to tell them apart.

But, yes, I am busted. I only glanced at that former thread to see the pictures.

Bonnie McGuire

You're so right Scott. The environmental movement that took over our government is the ancient religion of Gaia....Mother Nature worship. Look out! You're dealing with survival of the fittest. A violent environment where the dumb and weak are preyed upon by cunning predators. Our government has made it an incredibly powerful and rich dictator. That's why our Founders wanted no state church because they saw what happened to people in Europe because of the collusion between state church....the harlot described in Revelations. Masonry came into being because if you weren't a member of the state church you couldn't get a job. As for our Constitution be inspired by Christianity....most early Americans learned to read using the Bible. Jefferson (and others) liked Jesus teaching, so published the Jefferson Bible containing only what Jesus taught....Obviously His teachings and history influenced writing our Constitutions concerns over human rights. Pretty obvious if you study what they went
through putting it together.

joe smith

Ahh yes, Bonnie being Bonnie once again. "Masonry came into being because if you weren't a member of the church state you couldn't get a job". Talk about a deep understanding of masons!!! Did you learn this from that set of "UN guide books" you so like to quote, but of which can never seem to find a source? You know absolutely NOTHING about Freemasonry. What you think you know is wrong.
You are confusing the hodgepodge of Christian religions with the teachings of Jesus. Jefferson's paradigm was shaped by Jesus Christ and NOT Christianity - that is precisely why he made his own bible.

Walt

Are you a Mason Joe?

joe smith

Walt. Compass me a riddle.

Walt

A simple yes or no will do. ( BTW,, Pops was a Potentate.)
Bonnie is right.
Being a Freemason gets you places you otherwise would never get to. Be it a job or politics.
Nope,, not playing the secret handshake game with you.

Bonnie McGuire

Joe Smith...My Uncle was a Mason. He told me it was the first labor Union in Europe and why. As for my views on religion. I studied many, and found Christ's teachings magnificent if you're looking for a better life. And yes most who love his teachings aren't motivated by the rituals, interpretations and doctrines of men. However, the Church lifts the consciousness and teaches self discipline. The choice is individual, and so are the consequences. http://www.mcguiresplace.net/Stories/The%20King%20James%20Bible/

Don Bessee

Guess the FBI didn't all get the message as FBI agent Ed Reinhold told reporters this morning that its too soon to tell if the scum bag had been radicalized and scolded the press 'to be responsible when talking about the case and not to jump to conclusions about what happened.'

Bob Hobert

Memo for Ben E: http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2015/07/22/alien-crime-wave-in-texas-611234-crimes-2993-murders/

fish

Posted by: Bob Hobert | 23 July 2015 at 08:08 AM

Expect some variation of the "No True Scotsman" argument shortly Bob.

George Rebane

BobH 808am - Lamestream outlets cover up illegal alien crimes. Unfortunately BenE is therefore misinformed.

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