Sandbox - 10jul15

[Hopefully the Donald Trump dust-up will work itself out in 3jul15 sandbox, and this one can expand on the new thread of illegal aliens and states rights.  But it's only a hope.  gjr]

Comments

[Todd Juvinall]

I did my own post on Campbell this morning. Is it any wonder the education system is broken? My goodness how is it people with that lack of smarts teach our kids?

[Russ Steele]

Todd, when they cannot teach they indoctrinate. The results are students ill prepred for the real world.

[Gregory]

The standards for teaching continuation students are different; besides, among teachers and especially their unions, her opinions are not out of the mainstream. One would hope that the standards for the Board of Trustees of the Nevada Joint Union High School District would be higher. Her last position working for the district was as a history/social studies teacher at the NU Technical High School (technically, it is a high school), and its principal.

BTW according to transparentcalifornia, Linda Campbell's pension is at least $51K at the moment, good for another 30 to 40 years, bankruptcy of CalSTRS notwithstanding.

I think its obvious she can't effectively serve all the people in Nevada County, nor does she want to, so I think it clear she should resign from the Board. There really isn't a chance in hell she'll win a second term in 2018.

[George Rebane]

Gentlemen, in case you have not noticed, Linda Campbell is a topic on 'Ruminations - 10jul15'.

[Don Bessee]

Guess I was not the only one to cross posts! lol

[Walt]

On the Trump front,
" This week, Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, was said to have urged Mr. Trump in a phone call on Wednesday to soften his tone on immigration."
translation: " DUDE,,, Your making us Repub apologists, and glad handers look bad."

[Don Bessee]

Now this should stir the pot. The 9th circuit court of appeals in SF just drove a stake though the heart of all the business models for pot. The federal gov. will not be allowing any IRS deductions for weed as a business expense. I have to wonder what that's going to do to the campaign contributions for the multiple pot legalization CA ballot props in work? LOL!

[Walt]

Maybe they will have better luck with the state... Uh,, nope,,, that would shoot the "tax it" excuse all full of holes.
Yes,, the FEDS want their cut of the action..
Now why would the potsters even sue for tax breaks??? They are in that "taxes a GOOD" side of things.

[Russ Steele]

Is a mini ICE AGE on the way? Scientists warn the sun will 'go to sleep' in 2030 and could cause temperatures to plummet

New study claims to have cracked predicting solar cycles Says that between 2030 and 2040 solar cycles will cancel each other out Could lead to 'Maunder Minimum' effect that saw River Thames freeze over

More details HERE.

I hope that I am still around to when the Left comes to the realization that humans cannot control the climate, regardless of how many environmental rules and regulations that push in the people of California.

[Russ Steele]

Opps should have read: "they push on the people of California."

[Bill Tozer]

Yo Walt, here's some reading to do about the Brown Streak, Cap and Trade, The Drought, The Middle East, and Da Liberal Mind all rolled into one. Nothing about outdoor bar-b-ques. Sorry.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/10/thirsty-californians-tithe-to-high-speed-rail/

[Bill Tozer]

Ok, visual aides before shut eye.

http://patriotpost.us/posts/36318

https://www.facebook.com/USAPatriots/photos/a.448370578526854.103985.133154313381817/976823175681589/?type=1&theater

[Walt]

Hell.. The Brown Streak will be obsolete before it makes it's first run.
Hover tech. will be in full swing by then. If Sac. mandates room temp superconductivity,
all the problems will be solved. Technology mandated by law has worked SO well.

It was lemon pepper chicken in the pit, and applewood for that mellow touch.
I found a chicken nearly a big as a small turkey, and HAD to fire up the smoker.

[Jon]

Hottest June in CA history, per NOAA today.

That is all.

[Gregory]

And yet, by satellite and radiosonde measurements, there has been no statistically significant atmospheric worldwide warming for 18+ years.

NOAA's NCDC doesn't have the stellar reputation earned by NOAA as a whole, so don't get your hopes up for a fiery death after all, Jon. It still looks like the next decades will be cooling.

[Todd Juvinall]

I posted this on the Union website in response to their column of "what to believe" in social media and the news. It urks me to to have to set the record straight.

"I would agree with your column except I can't in good conscience say I want to leave the press as the gatekeepers of truth and facts. On page A7 the AP story of the Confederate flag coming won is a prime example. The reporters state comments about "republicans throughout the article as not supporting it coming down until forced to more or less. Yet, the flag was put there by democrats and a democrat governor! The General they mention was a democrat! Yet not a word about any democrat. I would not know this unless I researched it and saw it on social media and talk radio. If you want us to agree with your opinion on "truth" please do a better job on the biased AP crapola. It is really a pet peeve of mine."

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 July 2015 at 08:25 AM

A pet peeve of mine is people who don't know what the "Southern Strategy" was and how it shifted the south from Democratic racists to Republican racists between 1964 and 1980...

[Walt]

LOL "jon"!! NOAA?? What's a little "adjusted numbers" to make things look the way they need to be to fit the agenda? How bout the snowy day in JULY in Tahoe?? YES!!! Nice fluffy flakes,, NOT HAIL!! I was THERE!

As for the Confederate flag coming down, when will all the places named for Sen. Bird (D) get re named? Grand wizard of the KKK.

[Jon]

Keep flailing Walt. NOAA's report will come out officially on July 15. But good catch on the old Sean Hannity right wing talking point about Byrd. Guess you missed the history lesson about the South. You missed quite a bit of schoolin' it appears.

[George Rebane]

Administrivia - I just deleted the last string of kindergarten name calling comments; didn't look like there was any substance in any of them.

[Todd Juvinall]

The "Southern Strategy" is a liberal myth. Logistically the liberals are saying that a whole region of America, all the voters in that region and their political ideology, flipped from registered democrats to registered Republicans overnight. Yep, the left has to have a boogeyman. The dogs were set on the blacks by good democrats. Republicans set them free. No rewrites of history will stand the scrutiny of the truth.

[Jon]

LOL about the liberal myth. No need to counter that nonsense with any reference, just need to laugh at it.

[Bill Tozer]

Posted by Mr. Steven Frisch @ 9:47am in the morning.

Todd is an expert in snakes? Good, that means Gopher and King snakes will live! I walked outside the other dark night and saw a snake 3 feet from me in the drive. I fired up the old pick-em-up truck and ran it over....about 17 times. In the excitement I smashed into a rock wall I just built. (Repairs to the wall is on tomorrow's agenda.) Darn, it was a king snake. Opps. Yesterday I killed my first rattler in many a year. 12 or so buttons, yet not long, just fat. This was in broad daylight and I almost stepped on it walking around w/ my head in the clouds. His warning alerted me and being quite certain it was not a King Snake, I grabbed a nearby hoe and hoed him/her death. Put the meat in the freezer. Where is St. Paddy when you need him? But, I defer to Todd on such matters, including penal codes and penile size. A whooper with cheese? :)

[George Rebane]

For those who can hold back their laughter a bit, I would recommend a tour of the Rockford Institute website.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/about/the-rockford-institute/

These people publish Chronicles ('The magazine of American culture') that maintains and promotes a unique and penetrating view of an America culture that has been abandoned by both the Right and Left on our political scene. Its essays from various contributors in academe and national commentators give no quarter and take no prisoners. Of most interest is its characterization of the origins, apogee, and decline of western culture in our land. I would be interested to hear of readers' reaction to these considerable thoughts about our times.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 11 July 2015 at 11:13 AM

Probably a good idea, of course if we really followed that 'standards' abut 80% of Todd's comments would be deleted.

So, the Southern Strategy is a myth, with no evidence to back that up, yet I could roll out 20 people who would testify to the strategy and its implementation, from the Goldwater campaign to the Reagan campaign.

But that's OK, everything that challenges the worldview is a 'myth'.

[Todd Juvinall]

Glad the Chronicles are there but in all sincerity, this blog and many others are doing the same work. They are going to have to pry my cold dead fingers from my keyboard to shut me up and I suspect, you too GeorgeR. GeorgeB is a lost cause. It is our duty to ensure the truth be made available to all. Some will never believe it but when they lose their personal freedoms we fight to preserve, perhaps then they will understand.

Just as I pointed out that the fallacy of a "southern strategy" is a bunch of hooey, the liberals won't believe it was. They always need a whipping boy or a person or institution they can blame for their failures. A good Alinsy strategy for the losers they are.

BillT, you are truly a funny fellow. Keep up the good work!

[Todd Juvinall]

I posted and then I saw theFrisch post. He just can't help himself with personal attacks. Jeeze.

Obviously he has no response on my common sense analysis on the "southern strategy". I repeat, Tell us all how a whole area of the country and all its voters switched over to the Republicans almost overnight? Please inform the readers here how that was accomplished in the real world. Come on, you can do it.

[Walt]

Not even the dead are safe. Now this is taking things too far.
This is now entering ISIS territory. Destroy anything that isn't politically correct.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/11/memphis-city-council-votes-to-dig-up-grave-of-confederate-general-sell-his-statue/

Is Robert E. Lee going to be dug up and put in an unmarked grave?

[Todd Juvinall]

The Taliban have nothing on the left in America. You are right Walt, first they came for the corpses, and later for the living. These people are flesh eating zombies on the left.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 1233pm - Don't know if I'm the only one seeing the asymmetry in your exchanges Steven. When you criticize someone's comment on an issue that is shared by many people across the country, you land on the person for his 'erroneous belief' and don't acknowledge that it is more broadly held. This in addition to the oft-stated contempt with which you hold RR, as if its sentiments were unique only to this section of the Sierra foothills.

But I see (and hopefully have always practiced myself) that your stated 'truths' are criticized on the basis of their being held by an ideological class (that may include you). You personally are not accused of being the *only one* in error and left to swing in the wind. While there may have been exceptions in such exchanges, I'm here only referring to the preponderance of the evidence.

[Steven Frisch]

jPosted by: George Rebane | 11 July 2015 at 01:41 PM

Just because a "broadly head' view is ridiculous it does not make the view being held by one individual any less ridiculous.

And I guess you are correct George that ridiculous views are not unique to your geography, they are merely in my humble opinion, more concentrated in your geography. Western Nevada County is the merely largest concentration of ridiculous views I have seen in my experience. There are probably places with higher concentrations of crazy......

[Todd Juvinall]

Good luck with logic GeorgeR. Doesn't seem to work on a liberal. The reason the readers need to know about him is simple. He lives in a glass house. He refuses to let anyone post on his "blog" and only come around here to fight and call people names. He is unworthy of posting here. If his personal venues were open to others I would say he should not be prevented from posting. But since he is a fine example of a censoring liberal maybe not. But it is your blog and you can do what you want of course. He is free to post on my blog but is too chicken I guess.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 July 2015 at 11:18 AM
Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 July 2015 at 12:42 PM

"Obviously he has no response on my common sense analysis on the "southern strategy".

When you come up with a common sense analysis let me know.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 254pm - I could expand the argument as to the nation's map of our "ridiculous views", but I see no profit in that. However, your stated opinion, to the extent that it's shared by other progressives, does again confirm that 1) America is ideologically beyond the tipping point, and 2) there are few paths forward that would not benefit from a peaceful Great Divide. Nevertheless, your constant and welcome reminders of how ridiculous at least half of RR readers are serves an extremely useful purpose.

(Am always interested to see books like Coulter's 'Adios America' make it to the Top 10 charts in the nation.)

[Todd Juvinall]

I guess he truly has no answers to the myth of a "southern strategy" What a hoot!

I read Adios America and passed it on to my 86 year old mother who doesn't have a racist bone in her body. I will let you all know what her book report says.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 11 July 2015 at 03:03 PM

George, my comment about a 'ridiculous view' referred to Todd's denial of the existence of the Southern Strategy. If you are going to comment on that issue, and take me to task for calling it out, I expect you to have done some reading on the issue and be prepared to defend his case.

You may see that as some sort of proof that America is beyond some sort of tipping point, i see it as proof that you will defend the ridiculous when advanced by someone you think of as like minded, which really just proves my case, that facts are seldom stronger than relationship and affinity.

As for your view that some sort of Great Divide could be affected peaceably and cleanly, with like minded (largely European descendent) residents creating bastions of governance whereby they defend and preserve the institutions of the Christian West as you define them: the family as you think it should be defined, the Church as you wish it to be, and the rule of law as you interpret it, private property as you believe the Constitution defines it, free enterprise as it has never existed, moral discipline based on your morals; high "western' standards of learning, art, and literature and you think learning, art and literature should be, is nothing but a separatist fantasy.

It is another example of a ridiculous world view.

You and I share a nation, a culture, and a compact. We are part of one country, and the only thing that will ever change that is the nation as we know it being torn asunder.

You may wish that, I will defend my nation, culture and heritage....:)

[Todd Juvinall]

Now that is a hoot! Defending a culture? Yeah sure, OK. A culture of perversion and anything goes eh? Yep, that is just what we need to defend. Nation? Yep, the libs want a totalitarian one so no dissent can be heard. Yep, just like the censors of speech the libs have in our little county. Yep, defend that with all your strength.

We don't share anything except non=profits take our hard warned taxpayers money and waste it. Yep, we need more of that.

Southern strategy? Prove it. You can't. It was contrived but it could never be implemented. All those democrats in the south became republicans overnight. Yep, that makes perfect sense. Jeeze, liberals are unbelievably naive.

[Steven Frisch]

I do have to admit though that I am fascinated with the constant referral to the Great Divide, and the idea that we could somehow create different states that allow different interpretations of the Constitution, which is after all, the document that governs all of us. It is an impossibility within our federal system, and there would be no mechanism for defining rights differently between different states. The only way it could be affected would be the dissolution of the Union, which is what I find really fascinating because your served our country to defend the Union, from external threats. I find it fascinating that someone could defend the nation from external enemies while simultaneously essentially advocating its dissolution from within.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 359pm - A couple of points.

1) re your 347pm - you and I do share a nation and a compact, the latter which we interpret differently. But I doubt that we share a culture. I am prepared to again list the tenets of the American culture that I embrace; I have not been able to induce a progressive to construct an equivalent list of tenets from their perspective.

2) re your 359pm - as surprising as it may seem, our Constitution provides for the dissolution of the Union. Such dissolution is not an unconstitutional concept, because our Founders were very well aware that the Republic they bequeathed us could and might well become corrupted. And they wanted those who retained the values of liberty, security, and property to have recourse to assemble again in a union to preserve and maintain those supremely important values of beneficial human governance.

Those who hold all this as an expression of the ridiculous redouble the resolve of the remainder to not submit to collective tyranny. I here preamble a future post on the 'Sustainability Movement' in higher education as now being implemented under the leadership of the Association for the Advancement of Sustainability in Higher Education. The Great Divide or wholesale tyranny are much further along than people comprehend; the Brown Shirts had nothing on what is going on to shut off liberal education in our colleges and universities.

[Jon]

Great divide is fascinating but ultimately a dreamy fantasy. Why don't you SOJ types stop wasting our time and yours, all come together, buy up property, move and set up shop up in Siskiyou and Modoc County. Plenty of acreage to spread out, and you can get popular support for your movement. Nevada County is not going anywhere, nor are any of the counties with a more educated demographic. Much better chance if you guys are all bunched up in one or two counties. Then, you will have to COLLECTIVELY figure out how to work together! So, please stop wasting time talking about the Divide- go actually do something about it.

[Jon]

More commentary on unfettered Capitalism by Pope Francis. Walt, you seem to be a good Catholic boy..this must really bother you, ha?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/world/americas/in-fiery-speeches-francis-excoriates-global-capitalism.html

[George Rebane]

Jon 532pm - so glad to see that you are still intrigued by notions like fundamental cultural and ideological differences and the Great Divide. My own response to ideas, proposals, and notions that have no chance of realization is to just ignore them, which I assiduously do with hundreds (thousands?) I consider to be in Never-Never Land. I suspect your and your compatriouts' policy about such things is the same.

[Todd Juvinall]

I too would like to see the "culture" list from a liberal. I doubt there is much agreement. For goodness sakes they are truly wrecking the country. Their "Hollywood" values and leftist ideologies have polluted just about every aspect of life. They are all "do as I say, not as I do". No one respects them at all.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 11 July 2015 at 05:30 PM

"But I doubt that we share a culture."

I think you would be shocked George. I am just as much a product of a white European, American, mid-western, Anglo-centric culture as you are. I read the Bible before I read the Gita, read Ayn Rand before I read Howard Zinn, and am enamored of the Judeo-Christian tradition. I am also well aware of the conservative tradition in western thought.

I am sure we share more than we don't.

But to some one must share ideology to be of the same culture. To me you are of my culture, simply of a different stripe.....but I note, you overlooked my previous posts about my values.....it has come out here, simply not been acknowledged.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 636pm - I will not contend your provenance or that of your values. But from my years long knowledge of your preferred social policies (well documented here), I am at a loss as to how those values must have transformed to support your sincerely held worldview for the future of humanity.

If you could point to one or two summaries of your values, maybe that would serve as a starting point for greater understanding.

[Gregory]

The Frischian value that speaks the loudest is best typified by that Chicago politician, Rahm Emmanuel, who famously stated, "We have the votes. Fuck 'em" when working in the Obama administration.

"Jon"'s dream of the opposition packing their bags and leaving Nevada County is also telling.

California being a one party state is a fairly new phenomenon and I doubt it can survive either it's foreseeable Greek Tragedy or a collapse of the Global Warming scare. Losing the SCOTUS case about union dues may also be a harbinger of doom of the status quo, as that was the engine of Democratic Party dominance of California politics.

No, the opposition won't be going away. They're waiting for you to stumble, and stumble you will.

[Jon]

I thought you were supposed to be an educated guy, Greg? CA is going from blue to red in the future? LOL. I'd love to see those numbers run!

[Jon]

Greg, another question- if the (conservative regressive) opposition in CA isn't going away, then why is it pining and planning so hard to join a mythical new State of Jefferson to separate from the State of CA and go away?

A true puzzle..:)

[Ben Emery]

Boys Boys, the Southern Strategy is very real and very well documented.

From the mouth of someone who I think is safely catergorized as a Republican insider of the time, Lee Atwater. It is called dog whistle politics. I don't doubt you guys are oblivious to the fact this is going on, you all seem to have very linear minds incapable of seeing something that is connected but just to the side not right in front or behind. I guess you guys can say the same thing about Agenda 21 and liberals. I have never heard of Agenda 21 until the last 5 years but have been talking about sustainability and environmental issues since the 1980's.

Exclusive: Lee Atwater's Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8E3ENrKrQ#t=47

Transcript

"Here's how I would approach that issue as a -- as a statistician or a political scientist -- or, no, as a psychologist, which I'm not, is -- is how abstract you -- you handle the race thing. In other words, you start out -- and now y'all aren't quoting me on this, are you?

"You start out in 1954 by saying, 'nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968, you can’t say 'nigger'; that hurts you. It backfires. So you say stuff like 'forced busing,' 'states’ rights,' and all that stuff. And you’re getting so abstract now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all of these things you’re talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously, maybe that is part of it; I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract and that coded, that we're -- we're doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me? Because obviously sitting around saying 'We want to cut taxes,' 'We want to cut this,' and 'We want' -- is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than 'nigger, nigger.' You know.

[Jon]

Ben, exactly right. Its why Reince Preibus of the Repubs had the meeting with Trump to tone down the direct racism and revert to the Republican's patented dog-whistle racism. Direct racism isn't good for the Brand.

[Gregory]

Jon's 8:12 and 8:18 are so delightfully and unselfconsciously Marxist, or at least Hegelian, bravo. No, California has not turned a corner never to come back to where it's been. Don't feel bad, Hitler didn't get his 1000 year Reich either.

The current Democratic People's Republic of California will expire normally, when other people's money runs out. With three trillion evaporating from the Chinese stock market the last few weeks, they may be less likely to buy California paper, and if the SCOTUS finds against public employee unions in the next session, the collapse could be as soon as November 2016.

Hitler had his Gestapo and SS, the Soviets had the KGB, Democrats have global warming to keep people on course. Good luck with that; there's going to be a real propaganda push into the December Climapalooza but I hear advance ticket sales are weak.

[Don Bessee]

Another supplicant snoozefest from the 'jon' and co. ccc

[Walt]

As for Ca.,, our LIBS fail to comprehend that Ca. is Greece of the West. OPM is running out faster than drinking water flowing out to sea. Unions who saw dues payers as cash cows, now see the money tit running dry.
Speaking of union work, PG&E has been paying a union construction carpetbagger outfit from the valley plenty right here in PV for a month now, doing a "repair" on a gas line.
Hell. Even the traffic control guys come from the bay. The guys I worked for when doing the same work would have had it done in half the time. At any given time, most of the crew is standing around screwing the pooch. Caltrans has nothing on these clowns.

You guys do the math. min. of 48 dollars an hour, times 8, six new company trucks that get charged to the job,( 200 a day?) one brand new Cat backhoe, ( 1000, a day) 30 water barricades, Move in-out of a asphalt grinder to cut the street,( when a saw would have done the same job for 200 bucks). and numerous other T&M charges. ( No way this is a bid job) Now times that by 30 days and counting. Not to mention the special tools and contract "expert" to actually repair what's broke. And not a PG&E truck to be seen.

They are milking this job so bad it smells like a dairy.

[Todd Juvinall]

Ben Emery | 11 July 2015 at 09:02 PM

I don't think you have made a case for your fantasy of a "southern Strategy" at all. One guy from the south causes all you libs to concoct some sort of conspiracy by one guy? Jeeze how ridiculous. But the myth becomes the reality when you are on the losing side of the debate. Tell me Ben Emery since the Truckee troll won't. How did millions of democrats instantly switch to republican in the "south"? Come on now, go find another YOUTUBE.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 11 July 2015 at 08:07 PM

Greg, of course when I think of you I think of another Rahm Emanuel quote and wonder how often you like he says "I wake up some mornings hating me too."

Todd, you are so thick; no one said it happened overnight, you just made that up, I said it took about 2 decades.

[Gregory]

Sorry, Frisch 10:52, that's a Chicago thing you probably share with Rahm, and thanks for not trying to distance yourself from Rahm's quintessential statement of majority rule by screwing the minority when you can get away with it... It's so, well, you. I don't hate anybody. Not even you. I also don't hate rattlesnakes or rabid animals.

I realize it makes it easier for you to justify your hate for me by imagining all sorts of character flaws that I must have; I suspect that's how racists of the North and the South manage to hate their targets, too.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 12 July 2015 at 12:40 AM
Posted by: Gregory | 11 July 2015 at 08:07 PM

Funny Greg I must note, I never referenced you, never responded to anything you said on this thread or addressed an issue that you were commenting on, until you weighed in with you editorial comment: "The Frischian value that speaks the loudest is best typified by that Chicago politician, Rahm Emmanuel, who famously stated, "We have the votes. Fuck 'em" when working in the Obama administration."

So once again, you show who has a hard on for busting who.

I would be happy to just ignore you Greg if you did not weigh in with attacks like this. As far as I am concerned you are actually invisible.

[Todd Juvinall]

Steven Frisch | 11 July 2015 at 10:52 PM

Not talking about anything you wrote. It was others but hubris makes one think everyone is talking about them.

Also, you just can't resist namecalling. "Thick"? Jeeze, what original name call.

[Todd Juvinall]

Gregory, I think you are really spot on with that analysis about Chicago and the slime it spews opolitically. Who here is from there? Oh yeah.

[Ben Emery]

Todd,
Are you saying the Dixicrats are a myth as well?

Please tell me you know who Lee Atwater is?

You claim nobody answers your questions and I do all the time and you ridicule me for it because they are usually accompanied with links and excerpts. I gave the transcripts and audio of a high profile Republican strategist and you brush it off like it was hearsay.

You are a very peculiar person.

Dixicrats
http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/government-politics/dixiecrats

Concluding Paragraph

"Although the Dixiecrats immediately dissolved after the 1948 election, their impact lasted much longer. Many white voters who initially cast Dixiecrat ballots gravitated back toward the Democratic Party only grudgingly, and they remained nominal Democrats at best. Ultimately, the Dixiecrat movement paved the way for the rise of the modern Republican Party in the South. Many former Dixiecrat supporters eventually became Republicans, as was highlighted by Strom Thurmond's conversion in the 1960s."

[Ben Emery]

To try and cast Emanuel as a model of those on the left is a very far stretch indeed.

Monday, Mar 23, 2015 08:13 AM PDT
Why the left hates this man: Rahm Emanuel’s sins against the progressive movement
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/23/why_the_left_hates_this_man_rahm_emanuels_sins_against_the_progressive_movement/

Rahm Emanuel is a bully piece of shit that hates any form of democracy. He is a Third Way Democrat who bows down to corporate America while telling working class America to go fuck themselves. He is a typical leadership player of either the Democrats or Republicans, the ends justify the means no matter how many people it hurts.

Sorry George for the swearing but Emanuel only speaks in violent terms so it brings out the competitive nature in me.

[Todd Juvinall]

Ben Emery, I never said a word about Dixiecrats (mostly democrats in the late 40's). You libs always put words in others mouths. And yes, I am a peculiar guy. Freedom from stupid commenters is always my goal.

Lee Atwater was one man. He is no different than Axlerod who put the Obama coalition together (everyone but white men). He was a consultant. Now we see Hillary trying to redo the Obama coalition and it is not working very good so far.
I find it fascinating the liberals hated Atwater but love Axlerod. You libs need to get better educated about politics.

[Russ Steele]

Quote of the Day: Statistics is to science as steroids are to baseball. Addictive poison. But at least baseball has attempted to remedy the problem. Science remains mostly in denial. Especially climate science.

[Ben Emery]

Todd,
You are changing the subject. I answered your question by giving an official source of a southern state, Georgia, encyclopedia entry on Dixicrats.

11 July 2015 at 09:02 PM

" How did millions of democrats instantly switch to republican in the "south"? Come on now, go find another YOUTUBE."

[Todd Juvinall]

What do the Dixiecrats have to do with Atwater's "southern strategy"? You are not understanding what your link is.

[George Boardman]

Southerners started the white flight from the Democratic Party to the Republicans after passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

The Democrats finally rejected the hypocrisy of cozing up to Southern racists to cobble together a political majority, but the party of Lincoln had no qualms about welcoming avowed racists like Strom Thurmond into the party. Lyndon Johnson, an astute politician who knew the South well, said signing the civil rights act meant the Democrats "have lost the South for a generation." Clearly, he was overly optimistic.

But there's a price to be paid when you make a deal with the Devil, and the bill will become due in the future as the GOP finds it increasingly difficult to win the presidency with just the white vote. They wrote off the black vote decades ago and seem hell-bent on alienating the Latinos, but that's what happens when you cater to the customs and prejudices of the southern whites who now constitute the base of the party.

[George Rebane]

GeorgeB 854am - "...southern whites who now constitute the base of the (Republican) party." Mr Boardman, could you please give us a substantive expansion of that proposition. Bolstering your argument with references to recognized rightwing pundits would also be appreciated. Thanks.

[Steven Frisch]

Seriously, do we really need to do this? We are discussing history with someone who has no interest in real or sourced history. It is like debating a shadow.

Mssrs. Boardman and Emery are entirely correct. Mr. Boardman is correct in his analysis of the future risk for the Republican party as well. The demographics of the country are shifting and if the Republican party gets on the wrong side of that shift they will pay a price for decades. No amount of nominating Latinos as potential candidates and supporting policies the broad range of Latino voters reject will help. California should have been the canary in the coal mine for Republican strategists.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 12 July 2015 at 09:27 AM

George: re Mr. Boardman's contention, one could start by looking at the electoral maps from 2000 to present. The Republican and Democratic majorities in each respective election have been split with the Republicans holding most of the south and the great plaines and the Democrats holding the Industrial north east and upper midwest and the west, with the intermountain west states in flux.

Polling data would back that up:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118937/republican-base-heavily-white-conservative-religious.aspx

Analysis has backed that up:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/the-gop-is-dying-off-literally-118035.html#.VaKYCnjDm6A

And conservative columnists have backed that up:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/18/can-a-republican-win-270-electoral-votes-in-2016-or-ever.html

[fish]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 12 July 2015 at 09:28 AM

...and as expected the Emmanuelish, "We have the votes. Fuck 'em" sentiment from Mr. Frisch.

So the upthread denial was what.....?

[George Rebane]

StevenF 941am - I thought when one discussed a 'party's base', the reference was to a set of tenets held by party members who would be the last to desert the party in an election, and not to a specific geographical distribution of people who voted for the party. The gallup poll upholds that view. BTW, I'm not contending that some of the Republican base doesn't live in the South, just Mr Boardman's contention that I quoted in my 927am. It seems to me that the Republican base is also distributed across the plains and western states.

[Steven Frisch]

Well I may not agree with Mr. Emanuel's (by the way, one M) "We have the votes, Fuck 'em" quote (If he ever did say that instead of Bob Woodward paraphrasing Mr. Emanuel); but I do agree with this, "We have the facts, Fuck 'em."

There are such things as facts. On the "Southern Strategy" we have the facts, which we could go into ad infinitum, but what is the point when facts are meaningless to the the reader?

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 12 July 2015 at 10:02 AM

Hmm...I agree, a 'base' can be described as both issue based and geographically based, and I would agree with you the Republican party 'base' is more heavily distributed in western and plaines states, and I would content rural regions of 'blue' states.

But if the point is that the 'base' is 'the last to desert the party in an election", then the polling (and actual post election data) would indicate, whiter, older, more religious, more male, and more rural, is the 'base' of the Republican party.

My contention is that that is a long term recipe for electoral disaster for Republicans.

Even if the Republican approach is that expanded free enterprise, family values, and being tough on immigration, is the more likely path to prosperity (which could be rationally argued) Republicans are failing to deliver that message consistently to potential party adherents who are non-white, younger, secular, female and urban. The party dialogue has been captured by more off putting debate and coded appeals to exclusion, which people are more than smart enough to see through.

To be clear, I want a vigorous two-party (or potentially multi-party) system and look forward to a Republican party that puts its nativism behind it. I think a democratic republic requires a vigorous contest to work best.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 1017am - never contended that "whiter, older, more religious, more male, and more rural" voters were in the Republican base. Agree with your characterization of "... if the Republican approach". I have always maintained that the Republican message is the harder one to deliver - it is more complex and demands much more from the listener both in comprehension and execution. The Democrats have it easy.

If your "nativism" denotes adherence to a predominantly Euro-derived culture, then it seems to me that such a cohort should also be legitimately represented in our political spectrum in order to assure "a vigorous contest to work best". But such a contest cannot occur unless the several states can specialize in their selected forms of governance as anticipated by the Founders. Today there is little chance of that as we witness the opposition to movements like SoJ.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Boardman | 12 July 2015 at 08:54 AM

By the way, looking at Mr. Boardman's 8:54 I think it is unclear whether he is defining a base as geographic, ideological, or both. I suspect both.

[fish]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 12 July 2015 at 10:04 AM

One "m"....check!

I'm not disputing your demographic projections (facts) as they retain to the Republican party. There hasn't been any doubt as to the "why" of unrestricted immigration for the past 30 years.

[fish]

The United States....always taking their cues from and a quarter century behind the shitstain that is "Cool Britannia"!

Labour has always justified immigration on economic grounds and denied it was using it to foster multiculturalism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249797/Labour-threw-open-doors-mass-migration-secret-plot-make-multicultural-UK.html

[Steven Frisch]

"...such a contest cannot occur unless the several states can specialize in their selected forms of governance"

I am not contending the states ability to experiment with different forms of governance or policies, I like that idea. I have consistently contended that the side boards of that experimentation are a compact based on a uniform interpretation of the Constitution for all Americans. Thus, if 'one-person one-vote' as interpreted under the 14th amendment prevails New York, it must prevail in Alabama and the State of Jefferson as well.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: fish | 12 July 2015 at 10:32 AM

"There hasn't been any doubt as to the "why" of unrestricted immigration for the past 30 years."

To be clear Fish, there has been no plan or strategy on the part of Democrats to be soft on illegal immigration to gain electoral advantage.

Any advantage to be gained by Democratic politicians from loosening immigration laws would be so far down the road that individual Democratic politicians would be unlikely to gain from them....it takes more than a decade before even a legal immigrant begins to vote if they seek citizenship ....and voter participation by Latinos is still amongst the lowest in the nation. In California, the most organized Latino voting bloc, still sees very low participation, with only 28% of REGISTERED Latinos showing up at the polls in 2014.

If one thing is true of all elected officials, both democrats and republicans, it is that in the moment they care most about the next election, not building some mythical and uncertain voting block for the future.

The one notable exception to this was the 'Southern Strategy' which is why it was so brilliant. I may not like the outcome but it was amongst the most forward looking strategies in American politics, and it worked for 30 years. Republicans had discipline which is why it worked. Democrats lack such strategic discipline in my humble opinion.

In an election Democrats would be much better off being tough on immigration while the majority of voters are still white and over 40...which is the case. They don't because the anti-immigrant rhetoric is against core values....

[Jon]

Gregory 9:24PM Sat,

With all due respect, you should focus on topics of engineering and college rankings, and leave finance to others. To connect the Chinese stock market with CA fiscal health and its Muni Bond market is downright silly. The Chinese own a miniscule percentage of CA "paper." Speaking of which- you think a S&P A+ Rating for CA is a problematic, Greek style scenario about to unfold? Not exactly..

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/02/sp-lifts-rating-of-california-debt-signaling-fiscal-health.html

[Gregory]

First, Frisch, you've made it clear you "hate my guts", so no trying to project the problem in my direction is a bit disingenuous.

Frisch 11:05, following existing immigration law is against Democratic Party core values? The essential visible DP core value is to be Santa Claus to as many voters and potential voters as possible. And don't worry about existing law, we'll just do what is best... for us.

Maybe we can agree on something... is ejecting criminal illegal aliens and putting them in prison for a long time if caught additional times a core value?

What about not conflating legal and illegal immigration? Or not conflating criminal tourists sans visa with a true illegal immigrant, borne of desperation and wanting a new life?

The current Democratic Party coalition will last as long as Other People's Money does, and that isn't looking good. Nor is the DP's reliance on "climate change" as the raison d'etre du jour... the GOP will look smarter to a lot of people when that flames out for good taking the remaining Solyndras with it. And it is flaming out.

[Gregory]

"if the Republican approach". I have always maintained that the Republican message is the harder one to deliver - it is more complex and demands much more from the listener both in comprehension and execution. The Democrats have it easy." GR

I think PJ O'Rourke did a nice job with that thought, from Parliament of Whores (a must read):
"I have only one firm belief about the American political system, and that is this: God is a Republican and Santa Claus is a Democrat.

God is an elderly or, at any rate, middle-aged mate, a stern fellow, patriarchal rather than paternal and a great believer in rules and regulations. He holds men strictly accountable for their actions. He has little apparent concern for the material well-being of the disadvantaged. He is politically connected, socially powerful and holds the mortgage on literally everything in the world. God is difficult. God is unsentimental. It is very hard to get into God's heavenly country club.

Santa Claus is another matter. He's cute. He's nonthreatening. He's always cheerful. And he loves animals. He may know who's been naughty and who's been nice, but he never does anything about it. He gives everyone everything they want without thought of a quid pro quo. He works hard for charities, and he's famously generous to the poor. Santa Claus is preferable to God in every way but one: There is no such thing as Santa Claus."

PJ got the last sentence wrong a couple of ways.... one of them being that one can be Santa Claus as long as the gift bag remains not empty.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 12 July 2015 at 11:30 AM

First Goodnight, your attitude and tone toward me has been one of hatred from the beginning so don't cop some sort of superior 'behavior' position with me......you demonstrate your hard on for busting me with every post you write.

Second, I sad, "ant-immigrant rhetoric" is against their core values, not following existing immigration laws. No one has deported more illegal aliens than President Obama has, so you don't have a frigging leg to stand on.

By the way the is also a perfect example of how you attempt to twist words to go down a rat hole....we are not that stupid Greg...you can't 'strawman' us.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 12 July 2015 at 04:34 AM

Must also note that on this thread I never referenced Greg until he posted his "Frischian values" post at the time listed above.

Which is I believe a violation of the rules that George laid out :)

[Todd Juvinall]

Qoq! The historical papers are under attack by the libs here. If I recall in the mid 60's it was the R's that put the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act over the top for LBJ to sign. I was th democrats like Byrd, AKA "sheets" that were opposed. Boardman once again shows us all his ignorance and laziness as a "press" person. Then we have the so-called "southern strategy" by Lee Atwater. He personally went on a voter drive to change those millions of democrats into GASP! Republicans! Wow! And Reagan won 49 states with all those "crackers" I guess. Jeeze these libs here are so lazy and uninformed is it any wonder the place is a mess.

The code here from the libs is wink wink, those Tea Party people are all racists. Nothing from the Boardmans and his ilk about the 95% voting rate of blacks for democrats. No, they are not block voting. My goodness, I just have to laugh at these saps from the left. Not a word about their left's takeover of the west coast. That is why they are not believable. We are and the country is responding by kicking them out like the British voters just did. The best these libs can come up with is a spell check.

[Jon]

Steve, I find Greg's hero - PJ O'Rourke's characterization of God as the omniscient patriarchal, elderly/middle-aged figure as perfectly telling of that entire political line of thinking. How great that this attitude is so out in the open for our diverse electorate to see!

[Jon]

I wonder where in the Bible one can find this description of God's makeup-

"He has little apparent concern for the material well-being of the disadvantaged. He is politically connected, socially powerful"

[George Rebane]

Just an observation re StevenF's 1105am. "To be clear Fish, there has been no plan or strategy on the part of Democrats to be soft on illegal immigration to gain electoral advantage."

There need never be such an overt "plan or strategy". Given the reality of like likes like, the Dems just waxing emphathetically about our egregious policy toward undocumented immigrants of the preponderantly Hispanic type gains immediate traction at the polls from Hispanic Americans. There is no "far down the road" factor involved, the benefit to the Dems is right now, today. Whatever comes to them far down the road is gravy.

[Jon]

"The code here from the libs is wink wink, those Tea Party people are all racists. Nothing from the Boardmans and his ilk about the 95% voting rate of blacks for democrats".

What code- many of us are pretty clear about how we feel. As always no need to exaggerate however, no one has ever said they are ALL racists- we are saying that its philosophy tends to attract a disproportionate share of racists and people of shared heritage. And yes, blacks vote overwhelmingly for Democrats- anywhere from 85-95%, yes. For the right reasons. Who is denying this? LOL.

[fish]

To be clear Fish, there has been no plan or strategy on the part of Democrats to be soft on illegal immigration to gain electoral advantage.

To be clear Steve, you are either a liar or complete nitwit.

You're not a nitwit......

On the other hand you may not be privy to machinations at a higher level.....outer party members certainly don't need to know much more than they need to know.

[Gregory]

Jon, PJ is funny enough to be on NPR on a regular basis, and you're not.

Frisch 11:44 It ain't hate, it's about you being wrong on a regular basis (I'd say always except for the stopped clock scenario), and not having a great track record about being open. Like when I had to keep the pressure on to get you to admit you wanted all RESIDENTIAL wells in California metered with fees paid to the state for every gallon used. It was a logical conclusion to one of your pieces but you apparently had a sense that it wouldn't be popular to admit. Like the NH2020 town hall meetings 'facilitated' by the SBC to preordained conclusions.

Frisch, 11:44 you're making stuff up again. The rules aren't "make nice". rather "no mudballs". If you want to not be a target, stop being such a DP mouthpiece.

[George Boardman]

My 8:58 AM post should have read "southern whites who constitute the majority of the base of the party." (Another example of why there are editors.)

The dynamic I described can bee seen in the current dust-up over Trump's comments on illegal aliens. While border security is a legitimate topic for discussion, there's not reason to insult a country to make your point.

Yet none of the other Republican candidates will challenge Trump on this point. Nobody wants to upset the base. How do you think Latin-Americans are going to react the next time they vote for president?

[fish]

Second, I sad, "ant-immigrant rhetoric" is against their core values, not following existing immigration laws. No one has deported more illegal aliens than President Obama has, so you don't have a frigging leg to stand on.

No.....maybe you do play fast and loose with the truth.

[Gregory]

Regarding Jon's trust in California's bond rating (11:22), according to Pew, it's the 49th worst bond rating among the 50 states. Only Illinois is worse.
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2014/06/09/sp-ratings-2014

Also, there's a difference between having a non-junk bond rating and actually finding a buyer for a bond issue. China has been a big buyer. Don't count on them financing California's debt in the future.

[Todd Juvinall]

GeorgeB at 12:03 PM. You should stick to what you know best, misinforming readers. Politics is not your forte'

The only person running that has not dissed Trump is Cruz. You must not do much reading for goodness sakes. I suggest you read Ann Coulter's latest book, Adios America. Maybe then you can jump into his discussion.

Hispanics like La Raza (the race) are not a target for votes by the Republicans. They are the Latino version of the KKK and guess who is going to go speak to these racists? Hillary! Now if GeorgeB wants to opine about that I am all ears. All the reading I do says many of the things Trump says about illegal criminal aliens is true. The "coyotes" rape and sometimes murder most of the little girls and women they sneak across the border. The Mexican government turns its head away so they are complicit. Most of the polling I have seen about "Hispanics" views on immigration mirror the white crackers. Blacks are not real happy about all these illegals coming and taking their jobs and working for less. Mostly white liberals paying these illegals chump change to mow their lawn and clean the pool.

All in all, I would say all this Trump talk will create a great discussion on these ills we are experiencing. He doesn't seem to be a PC chump like most democrats and some republicans. But right now, I am a Scott Walker guy.

I say the more we talk the more we learn and what the hell is wrong with that?

Lastly, I just laugh when liberals tell us how we need to be to win elections. Why would they do that?

[fish]

Posted by: Gregory | 12 July 2015 at 12:15 PM

Rated 44th in the latest Cato/Mercatus study.......but that's all just TeaThuggliKKKan propaganda so we can just dismiss it!

http://mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 12 July 2015 at 11:50 AM

1) The pre-New Deal Democratic Party was a party captured by racism (not to say that the pre-1930's Republican Party did not also represent racism)

2) The New Deal, followed by the rise of northern industrial state liberals like Hubert Humphrey, split the Democratic Party in 1948 after the Dem's adopted a civil rights plank at their 1948 national convention.

3) The pro-Segregation Dixiecrats temporarily bolted the Democratic Party to run a third party candidate (Strom Thurmond) in 1948.

4) The Dixiecrats rejoined the Democratic Party in 1948 after the election to fight their segregation battle in the Congress where they held seniority.

5) The Democratic Party remained split between pro-segregation and anti-segregation elements through the 1950's (as did the Republican but more under the radar since Democrats controlled the Senate and Southern Democrats controlled most of the key committee chairmanships)

6) The Civil Rights movement and the Presidency of Lyndon Johnson brought the issue to a head and anti-segregation elements of the Democratic Party won the internal fight with the gradual passage of voting rights and civil right acts.

7) Republican political operatives, starting with the Barry Goldwater campaign, saw the opportunity to finally break the Democratic lock on Congress by splitting southern voters off from Democratic party leadership, and Goldwater ran a campaign specially designed to do so, winning 5 deep south states and Arizona.

8) Nixon picked up on the trend, and other social movements of the day that threatened to change the political dynamic like the anti-war movement and fear of urban rioting, and organized his 1968 campaign around splitting the south using the law and order theme to overcome the historic Dem lock--Wallace and Nixon split the south.

9) Later Lee Atwater picked up the ball and used the Southern Strategy and was famously interviewed about its existence, which many people found revelatory, but authors close to the campaigns of 1964 through 1984 have talked quit openly abut the strategy and its deployment.

So Atwater did not create the Southern Strategy Todd, he merely deployed it and is associated with it.

And to answer your specific charge that it was Republicans who supported civil rights and Democrats who opposed it, here are the actual votes. 46-20 in the Senate and 155-95 in the House FOR the Civil Rights Act of 1964. 48-17 in the Senate and 224-65 in the House FOR the Voting Rights Act of 1965. You will note that in all cases Democrats voted in majorities for both the civil rights act of 1964 and the voting rights act of 1965.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h87

[fish]

6) The Civil Rights movement and the Presidency of Lyndon Johnson brought the issue to a head and anti-segregation elements of the Democratic Party won the internal fight with the gradual passage of voting rights and civil right acts.

Johnsons motivations in this are not in question. We know why the democrats adopted the Black community.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 12 July 2015 at 12:03 PM

You misunderstood Greg, what i said was that all wells should be metered, and you did not have to 'press' me for that I offered it. What you got when you pressed was that if I had my way your well would be metered and charged for every gallon you used...actually if I had my way you would be charged double :).......besides, the origin of that conversation was where you went wrong when you claimed that you owned the water in your well....under the state constitution you do not own the water in your well, you own the right to use the water in your well for a 'beneficial purpose', which is determined by the state.