The Millennials have Sustainably Tipped Us (updated 16jul15)

George Rebane

[This is the addended transcript of my regular KVMR commentary aired on 15 July 2015.]

You’ve all heard of generational groupings like the so-called Greatest Generation, Baby Boomers, and Gen Xers.  Well, the latest are the Millennials, those born between 1980 and 1997.  This cohort is now in their young adult years, and they have arrived on the scene with a markedly different worldview and priorities than their predecessors.  For openers, none of them lived through or understood the Cold War.

Their view of the United States is not so much tempered by our exceptionalism, patriotism, capitalism, or even our beneficent role serving as the world’s sheriff.  They do not see Russia, China, and even Iran as geo-strategic competitors or possible foes of America, but as peer nations on the global scene doing pretty much normal stuff to serve their national interests without seeking hegemony over their neighbors.  And for the first time the new demographic cohort contains more self-declared liberals than conservatives – 30% to 28%.  Given the recorded sentiments of the so-called Moderates at 40%, I would conclude that during the last decade the country has swung markedly toward the Left.

The Cato Institute has published an informative compendium of recent polls and studies of the Millennials which concludes they are “more liberal, more ethnically and racially diverse, more technology centered, more supportive of government action to solve problems, and the best-educated generation in US history.” - the latter at least when counting the number of issued high school diplomas and college degrees.

Millenials see the US and the world heading toward a global order.  While not quite trusting human nature and individualism, Millennials hold that bigger and more comprehensive governments will be able to calm and control man’s animal spirits.  In such an environment Millennials see the world as a less threatening place than do their predecessors.  And without perceiving sharp outlines of global threats, Millennials don’t see the need for America to project power.  Today only 2% of Millenials have served in the military, and to them talk of the Cold War and how the world was then is a turn-off.  Their schooling has given them a distinctly counter-image of what it was like when the US and the USSR maintained peace through the threat of mutual assured destruction.  But that was then, and this is now.

When we look at the recent focus in higher education, we see a great emphasis on the inclusion of ‘sustainability’ as the driving constant now incorporated into all areas of college curriculum.  This is the new Agenda21-compatible watchword that unites all subjects, and in which today one can earn a college degree.  The unifying idea of ‘sustainability’ is that “curtailing economic, political, and intellectual liberty is the price that must be paid to ensure the welfare of future generations.” (more here)  That tenet alone explains why Millennials have come to accept curtailment of campus speech as the new norm.  They believe that such curtailment should spread into general society and cause no problems, especially to the “best-educated generation in US history.”

Today, according to the Association for the Advancement of Sustainability in Higher Education, there exist 1,438 academic sustainability programs at 475 colleges which recognize completion with degrees up to and including doctorates.  But the question remains - who in the private sector would hire people with such skill sets if they were not under a state mandate to do so?  The answer is obvious when the employer is a government agency.  And that may explain why so many Millennials are proponents of big and bigger government. 

So there we have it dear listener.  The new Millennials have been sustainably educated, are established in our midst, and by their growing presence have already tipped the scales to a new future that continues to throw off the ideas and values of the exiting Silent Generation and the soon to exit Boomers.  The die is being recast for ‘Peace in Our Time’, while no one remembers what happened in 1938.

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on georgerebane.com where the addended transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and where such issues are debated extensively.  However my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

[Addendum]  By coincidence the 15jul15 WSJ contains a report by former Indiana governor Mitch Daniels on James Pierson’s new book Shattered Consensus: The Rise and Decline of America’s Post-war Political Order.  Pierson makes the compelling case that America is on the threshold of a new and dark revolution of the magnitude of three previous ones which shook and determined new directions for our country – “…the Jeffersonian revolution, which ushered in a long period of dominance of a new anti-Federalist party; the Civil War, which vanquished slavery and set off the ascendancy of northern Republicanism; and the New Deal, which dramatically expanded the size and intrusiveness of the federal government in Americans’ lives.”

The consensus, which “assigned the national government responsibility for maintaining full employment and for policing the world in the interests of democracy, trade, and national security”, began to weaken in the 1960s and accelerated in the 1970s.  But it has been with the Millenials during Obama’s administration that the actual collapse has started.  Pierson argues that such a consensus, which “is required in order for a polity to meet its major challenges, no longer exists in the United States. That being so, the problems will mount to a point where either they will be addressed through a ‘fourth revolution’ or the polity will begin to disintegrate for lack of fundamental agreement.”  In these pages we have referred to this epoch as the beginning of the Great Divide.

Pierson asks his readers to question certain aspects of the veered political course taken by our country, for example “how will the contemporary left resolve the original progressive contradiction, which persists today: Affecting to be tribunes of ‘the people’ and advocates for democracy, in practice so-called progressives demonstrate a dismissive impatience with democracy in favor of rule by the diktats of our benevolent betters, namely them.”

He also points out that the “massive programs” envisioned by the progressives all require the rich to get much richer while at the same time allowing an ever greater share of the fruits of their risky labors to be taxed away.  Contemplating Pierson’s warnings, we recall that there is no solution to this conundrum in the growth of the government-corporate complex, because the result is inevitably an even larger bureaucracy that cuts the risk/reward feedback paths and mangles the management of the enterprises through usually insane partitions of authority and accountability.  And the carefully filled heads of the new Millennials are innocent of such considerations.

[16jul15 update]  The comment stream under this post is heartening, especially in the enthusiastic and voluminous participation by our liberal readers.  The alert reader will discount the obviously limited scope of their studies as they continue to accuse their ideological opposites of being small in number and uniquely holed up and isolated here in these foothills.  Given their information sources, such mistakes are understandable.

One progressive commenter’s contribution stands out as a posterchild proxy for many of the others as he addresses me who might also serve as a proxy for those of my generation and background.  For openers, the gentleman is completely unfamiliar with the bespoke literature documenting chapter and verse of free speech on college campuses, and he apparently does not know many current students nor has visited today’s college campuses.  He states with some assurance –

“…no George, it's just your antiquated 19th century world view that has proscribed progress, change, and the evolution of society. Slavery was once thought to be an acceptable economic model, no longer. Communism was once thought to be a threat, no longer. Polluting and ransacking the planet's resources for profit was once thought to be the engine of progress, no longer. It's not that the millennials (I have two) are naive, uneducated, or stupid, in fact, it is quite the opposite. They have much broader view of the world because the world has changed, something you and your cohorts don't seem to understand. It is time to pass the baton to those who understand the present and don't dwell in a past that no longer exists. Like it or not.. things they are a changin' and the world view you adhere to is no longer relevant in the 21st century.”

For the reader new to these pages, I am a technologist (with posted vitae), teacher, and entrepreneur (also a grandfather and great-grandfather).  In working at the cutting edge of knowledge I and others like me have always been in the minority, have always had our ideas initially rejected by the establishment.  But it is people like me and of my generation and professional background who in their life’s work have given us the blessings of the world we now live in.  It has been our forward looking ideas and creativity that have provided the technical advances, new systems and services, novel organizational structures, and jobs that propelled this nation into the computer and space ages, and then developed the businesses that understood the technologies and greatly contributed to the country’s wealth during the last half century.

I challenge anyone with a smidgeon of 19th century history under their belt to produce evidence from these pages that characterizes me as having an “antiquated 19th century worldview” – clearly the above commenter does not qualify.  And to put a bow on it, I am proud of the prescience that RR and many of its commenters have shown in foretelling the (sad) course of events that have put us on our current national trek to authoritarianism, a path on which our newest adults have been taught that a sustainable future requires “curtailing economic, political, and intellectual liberty (as) the price that must be paid to ensure the welfare of future generations.”  This is what the Left considers forward looking 21st century thought?!  However tragic, they may actually be right, but they err greatly in the nature of the “welfare” they will bequeath future generations.

In my seventies I am active in a wide range of organizations, I have the good fortune to exchange ideas directly and personally with my political leaders and intellectual fellow travelers, I remain an active and productive developer of new technology, and I am blessed to be in association with, yes, Millennials with whom we have created yet another technology based enterprise that is now a major employer in our area.  Did I mention that I also have five grandchildren in college?

So I wonder how in touch are my liberal critics, are they keeping up with what is happening in technology, economics, youth, and the geo-political roilings of the world; and how then are they contributing to its progress?  But I do know why they read RR, constantly disparage it, and yet continue to participate in this blog’s extensive debates.  Somewhere deep inside they know that the ideas promoted in these pages are real and have a real audience.  They know that these ideas comport with human nature and have made this world an acceptable place in which to live and raise families.  More importantly they feel that it is these same ideas that will carry the day with a free and informed citizenry, and in doing so will give lie to the worldview they were taught and have cherished through the years.  So it is important for them to come and contend, and it is important also for the rest of us to have them do that with the greatest acumen they can muster.

No matter which way the current gale blows, we in the minority – especially in the realm of ideas – continue to express our hope for the future by passing on the values and mores of liberty, individualism, and enterprise.  We will not go quietly into the dark night that awaits us all.  

Comments

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 17 July 2015 at 01:42 PM

Point remains, the 'spike' is not caused by AB 32 or the RFS, it is caused by constrained refinery capacity. The base price may have been increased by AB 32, but there is not one singe analysis of pricing that actually shows that the RFS has increased prices, there are only models that show the RFS COULD increase prices. And I know how much you dislike computer models as opposed to real measurement---so show me the real measurement that shows the RFS has increased prices. It does not exist.

[Gregory]

And the constrained refinery capacity is because over decades, since the days of Jerry Brown v.1.0, more than half of the refineries in California have closed. AB32 has done nothing but make a bad situation worse; I think computer models are fine, Steve, but they don't take the place of reality.

Which bean on your plate last night was the one that made you fart this morning, Steve? AB32 has both direct and indirect costs built into it, and when a business, whether mineral extraction, refining or fuel retailing, decides to spend billions into the future their gut of the future business climate has a big say as to whether or not to invest.

Be honest, Steve, AB32 is all about making energy increasingly expensive to the consumer and to Sacramento the only problem is that the prices are ahead of schedule; can't successfully boil the frog if the water gets hot too quickly.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 17 July 2015 at 02:16 PM

100% backward Greg, AB 32 is about reducing emissions; one of the ways to reduce emissions is to make clean energy so cheap it replaces dirty energy, and it will. Utility scale solar is almost as cheap as natural gas now even without subsidy, and this is while natural gas is in a glut.

Of course we could always go back to half the state population not being able to see the mountains that surround them like it was in 1972....but you would lose that fight hands down.

By the way, I support a solution to the gas issue....California refiners are dependent on largely Alaskan oil coming in by tanker....build a southwest pipeline for refined gasoline and California refiners are forced to compete with Texas...and guess what, price goes down. Who opposes a southwest pipeline for gasoline.....you guessed it...California refiners.

[Todd Juvinall]

Gregory is totally right about AB32. The readers here should discount anything Mr. Frisch says about "climate change" and AB32 since his non-profit gets money from the proceeds of your tax dollars. Clearly a conflict of interest and he is simply padding his bed.

[Gregory]

100% backwards, Steve. Clean energy isn't being made cheap, it's being mandated no matter what the price and if one needs a terawatt capacity, one has to have a terawatt of conventional capacity since the wind doesn't blow all the time and the sun shines enough to produce enough energy less than half the time. And be honest, the visibility issues in 1972, before catalytic converters, weren't from CO2; the Spanish explorer Cabrillo, when he first sailed into what is now Santa Monica, named it the Bay of Smokes just from the native's campfires. Atmospherically, it's a lousy place to put a city.

If Chinese PV and wind turbine production stops selling below cost, there goes your economic argument.

[Gregory]

To understand Frisch's view of AB32, one has to understand the underpants business from the Gnome's point of view...
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/151040/the-underpants-business

For AB32, phase 1 is ... mandate electrical power producers use an increasing amount of alternative energy sources for power delivered to homes, no matter the cost, and levy an increasing tax on fossil fuel energies of all sources.

Phase 3 is abundant and cheap clean energy.

What's phase 2?

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 17 July 2015 at 02:49 PM

Let's see, yet solar can be just as cheap as natural gas and is getting cheaper every day:

http://ecowatch.com/2015/07/15/cheapest-electricity-solar/

And yes grid stability is an issue but energy storage is also growing in leaps and bounds:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/13/8033691/why-teslas-battery-for-your-home-should-terrify-utilities

There are many American solar PV companies that are price competitive with China...sounds like a good business and job creation idea to me :)

And whether its a lousy place for a city or not the problem exists in the central valley too and we ain't moving 30 million people.

[Gregory]

Steve, name a competitive US PV company that doesn't rely on Chinese mining and/or manufacturing.

Tesla's batteries are old technology in a flashy wrapper with massive subsidies.

[Bill Tozer]

One reason for the gas spike can be laid directly at the Yapping Libbies door. Here in Ca, we have a special blend of petro that nobody else makes. Gee, we are so special we cannot even import that crap that gives us less miles per gallon at a higher price. We be sooo special. We be the one and only one here that refine it. Nobody else makes that special blend that rots out small engines and metal gas cans.
Is that the meaning of sustainable, is it Wally? "Gee Beave, I don't know. Sounds kinda creepy."
In the depths of the primordial ooze contained within the Liberal cranium, is more less or is less more? Yes kiddies, fact is stranger than fiction.

[Todd Juvinall]

The solar panels are all made in China, subsidized by our government now there is a great strategy for success.

[joe smith]

Todd 6:53. "solar panels are all made in China." Did you just wake up and figure you should start the day with another lie? Heck, why not. Solar World in Oregon has been building panels since 1975 (at least). They are huge. They supply homes, business, industry as well as the military. They export their panels around the world. And no Todd, Oregon isn't a Chinese province.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 17 July 2015 at 06:53 PM

Here is a list of American solar panel manufacturers.

http://www.enfsolar.com/directory/panel/United%20States

But even more important what difference does it make if solar panels are made in China or Mexico? I am assuming Todd supports fair trade and probably buys dozens of products made in China. It is not like he fights Red China buy not buying other products made in China.

What matters is that the rapid rise of solar technology is making solar price competitive with natural gas (even in a glutted natural gas market) and when that happens none of these guys will give a damn about the reason, they will buy cheaper power from whatever the source.

And Greg really misses the point by repeating the oft drilled home anti-renewable energy canard that every MW of renewables require a MW of fossil fuels power. That simply is not true.

Power use spikes for example in California at the very time wind and solar are most productive, in the late afternoon, and diminishes when the "sun goes down" because demand for air conditioning goes down.

The solution in the long term is storage of energy. The thing that Greg misses is that if we can use renewables at peak production to store 2 days worth of power, which is exactly what the Tesla home battery (and others) do, we overcome the problem of peak power usage at certain times of the day governing our power mix (at the same time we decentralize the system making it more reliable in an emergency).

[Larry Wirth]

Steven F. @ 2:06p, 17 Jul:

There already is a 24" gasoline pipeline from Texas to LA; it runs through Tucson, giving us the lowest gas prices in AZ. I know this 'cause it broke about 10yrs. ago and made a mess.

Interestingly, a few months ago they installed a 10" branch off which passed through my area out in the desert on its way to Hermosillo, Sonora. That probably won't help CA prices very much, but maybe Cali was refusing its allotment for Green reasons...

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 18 July 2015 at 10:41 AM

I think you are talking about a smaller Kinder-Morgan pipeline, which has a limited capacity much of which is taken up by Arizona and Las Vegas (and which moves other pertroeum products like jet fuel for the defense department) Capacity on that pipeline is maxed.

We have a small Kinder-Morgan pipeline going right past my house in Truckee going up and over Donner Summit as well, which is maxed.

The project I am talking about is the "Freedom Pipeline" which would ship 250,000 bpd from Texas to California which would really help stabilize prices in California. It would convert a NG pipeline to a crude and refined products pipeline.

https://rbnenergy.com/the-kinder-morgan-texas-california-crude-pipeline

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Larry Wirth | 18 July 2015 at 10:44 AM

Oops...my apologies, my last post should have had the time stamp from Larry Wirth

[George Rebane]

StevenF 1101am - "Posted by: George Rebane | 18 July 2015 at 10:41 AM" ??

[Steven Frisch]

See above, I think I apologized and corrected my mistake. It was a legacy copy.

[Steven Frisch]

Another example of energy storage being installed

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/ipl-breaks-ground-on-20mw-storage-facility-for-miso-ancillary-services/402206/

[Larry Wirth]

Mr. Frisch 11:03 18 Jul:

I'm talking about nothing of the sort. The 10" branch to Hermosillo takes off from Marana, just north of Tucson proper, heads south along Sandario Rd, swings west along Ajo way and turns south at Three Points along the Altar wash and crosses into Mexico at Sasabe. I watched many miles of it being layed out along the ground and then watched it being buried. Yes, its a 10" pipe, hard to miss.

The source for this gasoline is the 24" main in use for many years. You're talking about local nickel-dime branches in your neighborhood, I suppose.

[Larry Wirth]

And how was your "Freedom Pipeline" help if California can't even use the gasoline? Do they re-refine to make it compliant?
The "big guy" may have other branches to Phoenix and Las Vegas, but Hermosillo is a larger city than either Tucson or Las Vegas and is taking about 16% of capacity. There are no other large cities in Arizona or Nevada, so it figures some is still available for Cali...

And what is the daily capacity of a 24" gasoline capacity in bbls?

[Larry Wirth]

Steven, Google "Pipeline 101" to see the extent and distribution of this 24" line, then get back to us.

[Gregory]

LW, I love using the Marana airport with the mothballed Beech Starship turboprop pushers. Then there's that other airport north of it that's the old CIA facility.

What Frisch misses is that the battery technology is still not cost effective especially for home use and including maintenance, we probably don't want everyone having that much electrochemical energy stored in dry cells (they burn reeeallll goooood) and the last time I checked the last primary lead smelter in the US was closed down a few years ago. Not that having lots of low energy density chemical storage is all that great, either.

All of the problems are solvable, but they ain't been solved yet for all the folks who want to flip a switch for the lights to home on and to call SGE (Somewhere Gas and Electric) when it doesn't, and have it at a comparable price. A Tesla battery in every garage is not the solution to anything except Musk's cash flow and debt service.

Those batteries burn good when in cars, too.
http://fleetsafetyinstitute.com/Media/2014/09/fleet-vehicles-fire-extinguishers-electric-vehicle-challenge/

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Larry Wirth | 18 July 2015 at 02:58 PM

I love it Larry, is your only motivation in coming here and commenting is basically to play "gotcha"? I am not disputing that you say a pipeline built, where it goes, or anything else. What I said at the beginning was that one of the issues with California pricing is dependence on Alaskan oil and that increasing supply would help stabilize and reduce prices. Pretty basic economics. I also don;t dispute that we have a refining capacity issue--that is one of the problems.

I am however familiar with the pipeline network and do quite a bit of reading on energy policy, including refining issues and supply issues. I even meet with the Western States Petroleum Association on a relatively regular basis to discuss these issues. It is from them directly that I have heard concerns about the proposed Kinder Morgan pipeline and from their analysts that they fear lower refined prices because they have a higher profit margin the higher the price is. That is pretty basic price gouging if you ask me.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 18 July 2015 at 03:22 PM

Seriously, while you guys suck at the teat of big oil and coal, we are going to solve these problems. You're on the porch and we're in the arena, which must chap your hide.

There are hundreds of examples of storage projects going on and not just batteries, but compressed air, chemical storage, hydrogen, and others.
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/san-diego-gas-electric-proposes-unique-customer-sited-energy-storage-rate/402279/

[Larry Wirth]

No "gotcha," Steven. Just keeping your eyes on the road you and your fellow travelers have foisted on your innocent fellow citizens.

Ca has super high gas prices, courtesy of progressives:

1. CARB, brought to you by eco-nuts

2. No supply 'cause of no drilling, no-fracking, brought to you courtesy of Lib nimbys.

3. Not enough refinery capacity brought to you by Ca EPA types.

4. Looming water shortage, brought to you by Dems who welcomed in 15 million new resident, most illegal, without allowing any infrastructure improvement.

5. Looming power shortage, ditto. If Ca couldn't purchase huge amounts of electricity from other states, the grid would already be kaput. And now the usual suspects are attempting to close down 4-Corners, twenty years ahead of schedule.

Good luck covering that with wind and solar.

[Larry Wirth]

And before you question my knowledge of the late-great Ca, let me assure that at 50+ years, I lived there far longer than you
have, or probably longer than you ever will.

Why do you think taxpayers leave Ca while illegals pour in?

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Larry Wirth | 18 July 2015 at 07:41 PM

All I can say is I'm glad you're in Arizona Larry and I can't wait until the Hispanic voting block become the majority in Arizona in about 10 years and you need to move to Montana.

[George Rebane]

StevenF 845pm - Again thank you for clarifying those sentiments about the continued fundamental transformation of America.

[Todd Juvinall]

How many latinos working at SBC? Blacks? Republicans?

[Larry Wirth]

Frisch @8:45, where did say I have a problem with Hispanics? They already a majority in Tucson and that's ok with me. The problem is illegal aliens and, while they pass through my back yard, they don't stay in Arizona, they go to Ca. If AZ is to have a Hispanic majority overall, it will come through natural population increase. And virtually all Mexican-Americans hereabouts speak English, often better than the Anglos.

So how about addressing the portion of my remarks that were under discussion? Or did you hear a "dog-whistle"?

[Joe Koyote]

Todd, how many blacks, latinos, muslims, gays, or democrats did you hire when you were a building contractor? And you never answered my question about recycling the other day. That must mean you don't recycle, right?

[Joe Koyote]

New research from Columbia University and the University of Pennsylvania has found that "Hospitalizations for heart conditions, neurological illness, and other conditions were higher among people who live near unconventional gas and oil drilling (hydraulic fracturing)…" in the Marcellus shale region. The study went on to say that the increase in health problems coincides with the increase in fracking in the area. The more wells, the more health problems, go figure.

[Larry Wirth]

Penn and Columbia! My favorite, down-the-middle, snot-nosed Ivy League Universities. And I should trust their research exactly why, again? Go figure.

[Steven Frisch]

I din't say you had a problem with Hispanics Larry, I said you are going to have a problem with how they vote.

[fish]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 19 July 2015 at 12:26 AM

Excellent point!

"It is said that if the democratic party thought that illegal Mexican and Central American immigrants were going to be republican voters there would be a 50 ft high fence topped with barbed wire, shards of broken glass, and gun towers. The fence would end a 1/2 mile into the pacific on one end and mile into the Gulf of Mexico."

It's good to have functionary from the Outer Party offer tacit admission that this is why the US has decided to import a significant fraction of the 3rd world.

[fish]

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 18 July 2015 at 04:12 PM

Seriously, while you guys suck at the teat of big oil and coal, we are going to solve these problems. You're on the porch and we're in the arena, which must chap your hide.

Oh come now Steve.....really...."the arena"!

While I seriously hope that human ingenuity solves the myriad problems with which the world currently contends I hardly think that the image of the doughy middle aged white guy mounting his valiant steed (Big Oil fueled, company provided Subaru) while charging off on a harrowing journey to his desk job on the mean streets of Truckee California is the one you want to leave following these little chats.

"the arena".......?!? Puhleeze!

[Todd Juvinall]

JoeK, ask Steve Frisch to answer my question as you seem to be joined at the hip.

Fish, 6:26AM, that is a reality. Look at all the ways the left has tried to boost their voter numbers. Shorter registration periods, motor voter, registration forms attached to many government documents, no ID's, slip operatives into polling places, ACORN registering Mickey Mouse thousands of times, dead people in major cities voting numerous times, and more. Once we root out all their illegal ways of gaming the system we will see quite a squealing as they all become back-brenchers. There was UN-purseued voter fraud here for many years but a democrat was in charge so nothing was done.

[Bill Tozer]

Now that they have their stinkin' papers, they can vote (fraudulently) Funny, illegals can manage to get ID's, but not lame American nationals without any semblance of an ID who may wish to vote sometime down the road in a galaxy far far away. Bet your bottom dollar our fellow Americans manage to come up with SSNs and some form of ID when signing up for the handouts. But they can't manage to get a Voter ID?? Beam me up, Scottie.
It's them evil Republicans that want to suppress the lazy and shiftless from voting. A conspiracy to keep the Negros under Whitey's thumb I tell ya. Please show your stinkin' papers.
Yep, the Demos have cornered the voter fraud market. Nuff said.

http://www.dailynews.com/government-and-politics/20150718/nearly-400000-undocumented-immigrants-get-california-drivers-licenses

[Paul Emery]

Todd

Can you outline for me the efforts that Bush made to correct voter "fraud" during his tenure?

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery, not interested in doing your homework eh?

[Gregory]

"Seriously, while you guys suck at the teat of big oil and coal, we are going to solve these problems."

You have no role in solving those problems, Steven Frisch, you're just a mindless rent-seeking cheerleader on the side.

"You're on the porch and we're in the arena, which must chap your hide."

I relish the day you are in the arena, so do the lions.

"There are hundreds of examples of storage projects going on and not just batteries, but compressed air, chemical storage, hydrogen, and others."

OK, so you've given up on making everyone buy a few thousand bucks worth of batteries from Musk. I suppose that's a good thing. Compressed air is a loser (there's a reason the Tata compressed air car isn't happening) but without you having a clue about thermodynamics there's not much point in explaining it to you since you really don't want to know. Hydrogen is chemical storage, and there's conversion losses there, too, not to mention the problems of storing hydrogen gas known since the Hindenberg. Imagine utility scale hydrogen storage... all that eats into the margins.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/san-diego-gas-electric-proposes-unique-customer-sited-energy-storage-rate/402279/

The money quote in that piece cited by Frisch regards the problem of "reaching the right arrangement with companies like SolarCity and Tesla that will offer no upfront cost, third-party-funded batteries to customers as part of California’s new aggregated DER program." Ahh, someone else's money once again. Massive sweeteners in the tax code.

Now we're back to throwing business to Tesla, with tax advantaged lease arrangements to get others to buy and install the batteries for PG&E where they can tap them at will. Sweet. Smoke and mirrors, anyone? Place your bets regarding the number of homes that burn while the bugs are being worked out.

Steve, if and when the technology is viable, coercion won't be necessary. This ain't Chicago. And, for the time being, the technology isn't viable. The Germans have figured this out, so has Spain. California hasn't gotten the attitude adjustment yet.

[Joe Koyote]

array 9:16 -- "Penn and Columbia! My favorite, down-the-middle, snot-nosed Ivy League Universities. And I should trust their research exactly why, again? Go figure."

I suppose you prefer the academic excellence of Fox news and the Heritage Foundation?

[fish]

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 19 July 2015 at 09:01 AM

Hey Larry....watch me scare JoKe....

KOCH BROTHERS!

Yeah......that'll get your heart started!

[Joe Koyote]

Hey Larry watch me scare Carp -- DEMOCRACY not Plutocracy

[George Rebane]

JoeK 925am - I too am very scared of democracy in the form to which collectivists aspire. For it is indeed a scary thing as our Founders were well aware and did their best not to bequeath it to us.

[fish]

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 19 July 2015 at 09:25 AM

Hey Larry watch me scare Carp -- DEMOCRACY not Plutocracy

Democracy leads to Plutocracy. I don't endorse it JoKe I merely note it.

[Larry Wirth]

To All:

Since this conversation is supposed to be about "sustainability," I took a look (didn't take long) at the source of California's electricity. Very interesting.

Seems that approximately 32% of the supply is directly imported from neighbors, some hydro from Washington and Oregon, but the largest proportion from Arizona (Four Corners)in the form of coal fired generation. Don't know if CA still gets any power from Hoover Dam.

Seems 60% of the power is from nat gas plants in-state, but 90% of the gas in imported. 6x9= 54%.

So 54% + 32% = 86% of Cali's electricity is imported, either directly or indirectly! Turning the existing Kinder Mort gas line into petro product might put a dent in the 54%.

Of the remaining electric supply of 14%, 10% is hydro, leaving a whopping 4% for nuclear, wind, solar, biomass, geothermal.

And of those, the largest is nuclear (with just 2 plants vs. hundreds and thousands of bird choppers and burners.

Is this anyone's idea of sustainability.

[Larry Wirth]

Next up, a look at "transportation" fuels. Expect a similar pattern of sustainability.

[Larry Wirth]

Now add in a few hundred thousand Teslas and you having a looming disaster of first magnitude. But our progressives are worried about CAGW?

[Todd Juvinall]

FISH, the Koch brothers want more individual freedom while the JoeK libs want more government. Do you think JoeK will resist the government when they come for him/her?

[George Rebane]

Administrivia - just discovered and rescued Gregory's 834am from the spam folder. If your comment doesn't publish, please enter another short one asking me to check the spam folder. Have no idea what TypePad's algo is for putting stuff in there.

[Gregory]

Ain't never had one stuck before, and I've been out most of the day. Thanks for finding it, George.

[Paul Emery]

Todd

I did my research of Bush era efforts to correct voter fraud and it appears there wasn't any.

[Todd Juvinall]

So?

[Larry Wirth]

Mr. Frisch seems to have left the building. Sure hope it wasn't something I said...

[Larry Wirth]

To All:

Mr. Frisch doesn't want to further discuss sustainability, and I can understand why. Let's take a quick look at petroleum.

First, the good news. CA has the fourth largest reserves of all US states, and is the third largest producer @ ca. 6.4% of the US total. Surprisingly, every state in the union, except Hawaii, produces at least some crude. Only two are dropping in production: Alaska and California. Coincidence?

The bad news is that most of CA's oil reserves are offshore on state lands and drilling there is under a "permanent" moratorium.

And even with its large production, CA only produces 37.4% of what it uses. The other 62.4% is imported. And contra Mr. Frish, only 10% is imported from Alaska, the balance from OPEC, specifically Saudi Arabia, Ecuador and Iraq. Why from there? Because California's clean fuel mandate discriminates against heavier crude stock, including its own. CA doesn't have a refinery shortage per se, it has a supply problem.

In 2007, CA spent $60 billion on oil imports. Sustainable?

[Larry Wirth]

And now I (and all of you) know why they would build a 10" gasoline pipeline to Hermosillo- California can't (won't)use the gasoline because it doesn't meet state standards.

This also kills Steven's notion of converting an existing gas pipeline to "petroleum products". It could only be used to ship crude and I doubt Texas is particularly looking to do that. Maybe a branch off the Keystone XL would do the trick, though.