« Another Moderate Muslim turns Radical Raghead (updated 21jul15) | Main | Sandbox - 22jul15 »

19 July 2015

Comments

Ben Emery

George,
I read a comment of yours to Jon that surprised me but at the same time pleased me. You acknowledged the reasons why Islam despises the west. What I find odd from a person who claims to have libertarian leanings is the acceptance and down right support of military empire.

Where does personal responsibility come into your world view and war on terror? Personal responsibility for your own views and the US actions. US foreign policy and military empire isn't going to happen in a vacuum. Monkeying around with foreign government control to benefit US corporate interests is eventually going to have blowback. That time has come and started in the early 90's with Islam.

George Rebane

BenE 911pm - not sure about the exact nature of your question, but I from what I can glean I would like to answer it.

But in the interval, I will repeat that I am a child, student, and defender of western civilization. And within that context I am an American still under oath to defend the Constitution of my country against all enemies foreign and domestic. I take that oath and my citizenship very seriously. When I and others were discharged from active duty, there was no ceremony that removed that oath. That is why we veterans are on the DHS list as potential subversives to the regime in Washington.

I have no idea from where you keep bringing up the shit about anyone here promoting foreign government control to benefit "US corporate interests". The best I have been able to understand in my three quarters of a century is that every collectivist of whatever stripe always accuses those who don't agree with them of being lackeys to corporate interests. It doesn't look like you are any different.

Ben Emery

George,
A couple of questions, how was/is Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Syria, and so on threatening the US Constitution?

Did you support the US going into Afghanistan and Iraq? How about the 1953 coup in Iran? Or the coups in Central and South America? Or the US/ business interests propping up Batista in Cuba?

Do you deny these actions were for corporate interests.

Gregory

"Did you support the US going into Afghanistan"

Ben, if you can't remember Afghanistan's ruling Taliban, directly involved in supporting Al Qaeda, was culpable for 9/11 there isn't much help for you.

Larry Wirth

In both Israel and Switzerland, where military training (service) is mandatory for all males, not only do they carry loaded weapons on bases, they also openly carry in all parts of the civilian world.

Switzerland hasn't been at war for 500 years, including both World Wars.

Israel has, and has won them all, as they must to survive. I can remember sharing lunch in a couple places where IDF guys and gals would come in, lay their Galils on the floor and wrap the sling around their ankle to prevent some raghead from making a grab for it.

Never felt safer in my life. Airport security was very different also. No metal detectors, no pat downs, no X-rays, just very careful interviews. Profiling at its best.

This country should adopt all of the above, immediately; leave the politics of it to the progressives.

Larry Wirth

Universal military training and a brief active duty tour for all males would improve our country immensely. It certainly did wonders for me, taught me to get up on time, tidy up my surroundings, not skip class, show up on time if you wanted to eat, etc. Military training makes better citizens and better people of all who participate.

I know George and Russ have been there and it shows on both their comments on RR.

Larry Wirth

It's called discipline, sadly lacking in most people as I look about. Getting some doesn't mean you have to re-enlist, but it does encourage soldiers to do so. And we're surely going to need more than we currently have. Think 1939...


George Rebane

BenE 1002am - This barn has been circled by me and others for years on RR. Pull out some quotes and answer your own questions.

However, my view has always been that our being the world's hegemon has been a very positive thing for the people on this planet since WW2. And while I can nitpick our foreign interventions - especially looking in the rear view mirror - I believe that we have beneficially intervened even though there was no 'clear and present danger' to our sovereignty (i.e. Constitution). With socialist controls on our economy, our ability to afford being the world's sheriff has been weakened. Nevertheless, the price for world peace that we have paid since WW2 has been relatively low. Our pulling back today has made the world a more dangerous place as seen by the adventures of Russia, China, and radical Islam. And I do know that your view of all this is 180 out.

Todd Juvinall

It is fascinating that the left is always chastising us on the right about 'think local, think global" or some such slogan, yet when it comes to safety they somehow become isolationists. I think they are confused.

Jon

"think local, think global." Todd

Right Todd. That's exactly it.

Todd Juvinall

Thanks, that is what I thought.

Bonnie McGuire

Unfortunately America has been thinking Global since 1913 with the International Banking wonderland. President Woodrow Wilson quickly acknowledged how it financed WWI. Yep...America was on the great economic road from WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam...hither and thither allegedly involved solving the problems of the world, costing thousands of American lives and rising debt. Has the world become a better place, or is it becoming more violent? I thought our government was lawfully of, by and for the American people, but illegal emigrants pour over our border. They're protected by our government even though we're seeing more killings of those in our military and policemen in a racist stirred environment. There's definitely something wrong with protecting America at home.

Todd Juvinall

GeorgeR's update on this thread. He says in part,

"In the past this denial was implemented by the lamestream not reporting illegal alien crimes."

I have been emailing request for info to reporters and Editors when I read a story about a "latino" murdering or raping or child molesting. Even out local paper. I just got back a response from the Modesto Bee where I asked if the man they captured for murdering 5 women and children in Modesto this week was a illegal alien. And some other questions. Their response was "waiting to talk to the family members"! He murdered them all! And they don't know diddly.

Anyway, I have decided to seek out the authors of these stories where they don't mention the nationality or status and ask them. If all of us do this perhaps the "lamestreams" will get it that we are interested in that information.

So be diligent fellow inquisitive people. Seek them out and email them.

Walt

I'm with Larry on his points. Military service for all isn't a bad idea, and his reasoning is dead on.

As for the Israeli military packing weapons, It's not just on base. I have seen photos and stories where the women IDF pack their issued weapons to the beach. ( DAMN that looked good.. An M4 helping hold a bikini in place.) You can find plenty of proof with a google search.

Hay "jon".. Let's hear more about the great LIB media you crow about.. Uh remember what you said about WDN? Look what jumped up and bit you in the ass. ( as predicted)

Jon

Walt, I'd love it for the right wing to propose mandatory military service. Go for it boys! Landslide for Dems will await...

World Net Daily is WND Walt, not WDN. And its bogus. Almost as bad as the Philadelphia Trumpet, the extreme of the extreme.

Jon

Hey Larry, perhaps there might be another reason no one has tried to invade Switzerland, and I am pretty sure its not because their military is armed at all times! But very creative reasoning, good for the gun-nut party line.

joe smith

Bonnie- Wow! Like a wristwatch in a car wreck, did your brain stop working at 1972? Grenada, Panama, Libya, Iraq I and II, the war on drugs, the war on terror, the war on personal information . . . Did something happen after Vietnam when suddenly our nation's biggest threat became Mexico shipping Mexicans over the border? In the war of dueling intellects, you are a Lib's best friend.

Ben Emery

George, 20 July 2015 at 08:28 AM

Thanks for the clarification on your position. These threads get so off topic and all over the place it is hard to locate previous discussion and statements.

I would argue you need to remove the libertarian part of your self described conservatarian if you believe the US military empire since WWII has been a good thing. We have abandoned the US Constitution, broke international law, and created what can be considered the US and worlds greatest enemies in the process. Also we have created the military complex Eisenhower warned us about. Over a trillion dollars a year is spent on Defense/ Offense and the Pentagon. With this spending tons of American jobs manufacturing weapons are linked to the economy and representative districts/ states, therefore rarely cancelled or discontinued because it will hurt the employment rate.

If we couple this war economy with our so called free trade agreements we have a recipe for the continuation of military complex that the financial sector, pharmaceutical industry, fossil fuel industry, and agri-business love that supply our military and our foreign aid.

Your ideology/ world view is that of power monger that is becoming obsolete due to the fact the earth has become so small for so many people to live along side each other. We only have one earth and that earth has finite resources for 7 billion people to share. The days of super powers are over and resurgence of regional and local societies are going to be the future if the human race has a chance at survival. If not we will go extinct much like all those microbes to mammals who came before us and the environment/ ecology of the planet abruptly shifted so it no longer could support them.

We are in the sixth mass extinction and what makes this extinction unique is that human beings are the primary cause not natural occurrences. Unless you want to argue we(human beings) are part of the natural occurrences. To that I will say, we have cognitive ability to observe and change our habits. To not do so is as immoral as it gets towards future generations who will have to suffer because our unwillingness to act.

Ben Emery

Greg G.,

Nobody is addressing you in this dialogue. As usual your input is off topic and irrelevant.

Thanks Have a Nice Day.

George Rebane

BenE 808pm - you need to refresh the definition of 'conservatarian'.

But all the things you mentioned are evaluated by us in diametrically opposite ways. This is not a surprise, but a main thesis of RR. We are merely delineating the chasm between us.

Bob Hobert

GR - I thought you put an end to ad hominem attacks on your blog.

Bill Tozer

It's notThe Muslin Question we should be coming together on. Nay, it's The Muslim Problem that needs to be solved, not just gabbed about. No worse than the Mogul Problem or the Nazi Problem got solved.

Don Bessee

Wow BE got promoted to site moderator! lol You don't tell us who can comment, this is a free speech zone. Blah Blah Blah. Seems my schooling had the mammals ascend after the asteroid and natural sun related weather patterns changed. So starving humans by wasting water on the smelt is going to ensure our continuation as a species? What I find interesting is how much time we spend worrying about non-competitive critters and failing to observe that the adaptable critters are thriving. So in the arrogance of science we endow ourselves with the rights of God and flush Darwin to pick and choose in our infinite wisdom which one we like best. Based on what, cuddliness? Photogenic appeal? If one was to take the so called 'sustainable' argument to its logical conclusion we would not bother immunizing or wasting recourses on Sub-Sahara Africa because they do not have the water or food to sustain their populations. In this extrapolation of your argument we should let them die off to an eco. sustainable level. SO what that it means the death 10's or 100's of millions to meet your sustainable nirvana.

Todd Juvinall

I see Joe Smith is now attacking and calling Bonnie names. What a putz. Tell us Joe Smith whta have you done for this county? My guess is nothing. Bonnie has been a stellar part of the community all her life. You libs just can't win so you start the childish namecalling.

Ben Emery

George,
Fair enough. Those chasms are becoming larger and larger the more we get to the actual foundation of your positions. My perception of your position is you believe that the US imperialism through military empire and financial/ economic coups is justified since our nation/ government is the best thing going on in the world despite all its warts and past woes. This justifies the killing of innocent civilians/ collateral damage in pursuit of the greater good. Although we only have one life here on earth their lives are our game pieces to have control over. It justifies 5% of the population using up and producing 25% of the worlds resources and pollution. Basically the US stealing more than are share of the resources therefore leaving less for others. It justifies interfering with the ability of citizens of other nations to have a say in their government.

Other than not wanting the US government taxing and putting regulations on industry how again are you libertarian leaning?

Ben Emery

Don,
As a person who has free will I have a say in who I will have discourse with or not. George is free to address Greg G. comment but since it was off topic I doubt that would be worth his time.

There is enough for 7 billion people on the planet to survive with s decent standard of living. What needs to change is the lack of access due to the insane idea that money/ profits trumps the needs of people and our co inhabitants on the planet. For Apple, Walmart, or Microsoft to have billion dollar profitability while paying workers poverty wages is the system that needs to change.

There is enough food for the planet but profits and speculation restrict access. No we are not supposed to bag our left overs and send it to africa or asia. It is changing our consumption habits. It is changing financial sector ability to speculate on commodities. It is changing trade deals that reduces developed subsidies and the added value dilemma for developing or undeveloped nations.

http://www.globalexchange.org/resources/wto/agriculture

http://www.worldfooddayusa.org/food_waste_the_facts

Bill Tozer

My Ben, you are slipping up. You failed to mention all the wars America has been involved in since The Spanish American War were for the exclusive benefit of Sam Walton and the Walton Clan. Even the Balkan Air War and Blackhawk Down. There, I filled in the blanks for ya. Thanks not necessary.

Larry Wirth

"Jon" @ 7:40p,
How about you telling the folks why Switzerland hasn't been invaded? (I already what you're going to say, but we all love conspiracy theories, don't we?) And yeah, like the Israeli's, the Swiss military also take their arms home.

The Swiss have, rather than a large standing army, "a well trained militia," and so should we; Lord knows we have much better reasons for doing so.

Let me know when you want the skinny on CA's petroleum situation. (oops! That was Frisch.)

Ben Emery

Greg G.,
If you want to talk about how the Taliban came into being and the role the US had in that development, fine. We were talking about over all worldview not specifics. That is why your comment was irrelevant.

George believes if a nation has the ability to flex its muscles it has the right to do so in violation of the natural rights we all hold as human beings. Being able to use or take the lives of others in pursuit of US dominance is justifiable. I disagree and am offended that someone as educated as George holds these beliefs and values. If we were born in one of these nations that are at the end of our sword our perception of the US greatness would change dramatically and rightfully so.

Do I believe what was set up in the United States of America was perfect, in no way, shape, or form. Do I believe for its time what the United States of America represented and its potential was an amazing feat, you better believe it. I feel the US has taken some major steps backwards since the 1970's and especially in the last 15 years.

Larry Wirth

Ben E. @ 10:28p

I don't think you have the slightest notion of what George does or doesn't believe about anything.

Dr.Rebane was, in fact, born in a nation at the "end of a sword", a Soviet sword, and one which is again facing a dire threat from the exact same sword. Are you going to stand up for the rights of that tiny nation, a member of NATO no less?

My guess is that you wouldn't.

Without the grace and goodness of the United States of America, he wouldn't be here to try and educate you on the facts of both history and human nature.

The "Pax Americana" in effect since 1945 has saved millions of lives and saved Europe trillions of dollars that would otherwise have been spent defending themselves from Russia- which they wouldn't have, since in 1945, they had nothing.

Imagine, if you are capable, what the world would look like today if the US Army had simply packed up and gone home in 1945 (as it did in 1918). You really like that scenario?

Larry Wirth

It's also likely, brother Ben, that you and I both would also not be alive but for the sacrifice that America has made for the good of humanity. You because "useless eaters" have no place in utopia, me because I don't believe in utopia. Grow up, man.

Larry Wirth

And you have the balls to come on here and spout Soviet propaganda as though the demise of the Soviet Union was of no consequence whatever, and its resurgence is something that the United States should simply ignore?

Bill Tozer

Larry, you got to cut Brothet Ben some slack. First, consider his age. He just finished his freshman year of college and Is the typical wet behind the ears know-it-all. Second, one must consider the younger Emery's state of mind. He is still hopping in the rumble seat hitching a ride to California to Liberate the Enslaved Oakies as well as stand with them in opposing the atrocities committed by Big Corporate Farm and Big Mean Head Bustin' Corporate Railroad Police.

Please consider these extenuating circumstances in responding to our younger brother. He cannot do anything about his age and we can hope our own Walter Mitty will wake from his slumber and grow out of it in due time.
Patience is a virtue.

http://m.joyreactor.com/post/444658

Bill Tozer

Visual aides for the learning impaired. Yes, this has to do with the Muslin Problem...er...the Muslin question.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/discoweasel/353466682/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/discoweasel/356485026/in/photostream/

George Boardman

Regarding the GAO report quoted in the update: What time period do the stats cover?

Don Bessee

Govt. still says no motive for TN shooting.!?!? Lets see, he watched jihadi videos before the attack on the isis targeted soft military targets, his uncle who he stayed with in Jordan is being held incommunicado, his dad was on the terror watch list and donated money to terrorists. Well I guess there are no dots to connect here if you work for 0's DHS.

Todd Juvinall

Don Bessee | 21 July 2015 at 02:27 PM

They finally did today. Of course all other Americans knew it was a terrorist attack.

Finally Obama has the flags at half mast. He is a terrible American.

George Rebane

GeorgeB 135pm - The link to the report is provided in my update.

Messrs Juvinall and Bessee, apparently you did not see today's update about which I should have posted a comment.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2015/07/another-moderate-muslim-turns-radical-raghead.html

Don Bessee

There was another headline today I was reacting to, did miss the update. The Chief of Staff of the Army who is retiring admitted that isis could have been prevented if his recommendations had been followed on Iraq stabilizing forces back a few years. Said 0 never contacted him when the Iraqi cities started falling to isis even though he had the most time in country as a serving general. Guess 0 lost his number for opposing the cut and run from Iraq by 0. Finally some truth from an admin official, wonder if they will delay his retirement to screw him over for the daring to utter the truth and not the talking points?

Todd Juvinall

Darn it GeorgeR I missed your update. Too quick for me. LOL!

Bill Tozer

Update? What update?

Larry Wirth

Rather than muck up this thread, I'll simply refer interested readers back to the "Millennial" thread of 15(?) July for an update on California's sustainability problem.

Gregory

"Greg G.,
If you want to talk about how the Taliban came into being and the role the US had in that development, fine."

No, I'd just like you to admit the Afghanistan invasion was legal and appropriate under international law, given the Taliban support and cooperation with Bin Laden and friends.

Bonnie McGuire

Thanks Todd. Joe Smiths problem is he thinks he knows it all at this point in time. Dumb and dumber's don't recognize others have experiences other than theirs in this tremendous universe. I didn't mention all the other wars, or police actions because they're to numerous and, as you noticed, a waste of time with know it all's.

Don Bessee

Well isn't that nice. 0 has decided to amend the oath immigrants take now. They will no long have to affirm that they will defend the country!!!!?? WTF is that all about, make it easier for the muslum brotherhood types? Will we be able to survive the remainder of 0's term?

Don Bessee

SPELL CHECK *$*#* make that They will no longer.

Todd Juvinall

Bonnie, it is easy to root out the bums like Joe Smith. Probably always on the dole, mad about those darn people that have accomplished things and his goal is to get even. Fortunately he is a part of a small minority of fifth columnists.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Blog powered by Typepad