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18 September 2015

Comments

Jon

What did I tell you guys nearly 2 months ago now...? Spot on piece.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2015/09/18/nbc-trump-doing-long-term-damage-republican-brand

fish

I thought we would get a token quarter point......just to show "resolve". Things must be worse than we know.

Todd Juvinall

The clown car full of democrats and socialists is becoming so funny! Hillary does not know if Obama is a Muslim? What a hoot! Bernies "depends" are leaking!

Jon

Yup, but I'd take Depends over senility like Old Ronnie.
Hell, Bernie is robust and working a FT job at 74, around 17 hrs/day. What happened to you Todd?

Don Bessee

So the 'jon' says Hillary consented to bills bimbos AND the blow jobs from an intern under the color of authority as a supervisor. LOL How nice for the 'jon' that on obscure blogger, even more obscure than he whos name we will not utter agrees with him. ;-)

Walt

But "O" says the economy is doing great! Unemployment is in the 5's! Didn't the FED say they would make an interest hike a when U.P. was in the 6's? And now the stock market tanks again.

On another note, See the news today? unlicensed "contractors" get busted.. But what caught my eye was the use of the term "underground economy". The same words the dopers have been using. The dopers were proud to claim that the "underground economy" is what's kept the county afloat.
Too bad Doug K. didn't get caught. He may care to read that story, since the rules are printed in simple English. ( Not quite the way he said they were).

Todd Juvinall

Bernie is working? And what job is that? Clown car driver? No, he is too old and in the past. No one except loonie libnuts will vote for him. Hill-Billy the team of clowns will not even get to the nomination. Jail time. Besides, she has never apologized toi the family of the Benghazi victims. She is a tramp.

Paul Emery

I can't wait to see what the Republican platform will be after Trump and Cruz drag them over the cliff. Oh well, support from Women, Blacks, Latinos Gays and people under 25 is not very important. There are enough old white guys to win the election.

By the way what ever happen to Palin and Bachmann, the last two Republican sweet hearts? Carly should enjoy her little winning streak before being sent home by the Big Boys. As to those who support the good doctor, that crowd apparently doesn't think that some kind of administrative experience is necessary to be President.

It will be Biden and Warren in 2016 almost for sure. The only question, and it's a big one, is if Warren can stomach the TPP which is medicine candidates from both partys will have to take or they'll be squashed. I'm sure Biden will sign on. The Bush and Clinton clans have been bought and sold for 30 years so they are in. Nobody asked the question at the Pubs debate. I can't imagine Trump being into it since it's Obama and the Republican mainstream in the same chorus line on this one. The last thing the Big Boys want is some kind of independent Populist movement gaining too much momentum. Bernie is the only major candidate in either party who has stated his opposition to TPP which is much to his credit.

Todd Juvinall

So who are you supporting Paul Emery?

Paul Emery

Don't know yet. I'm hoping Gary Johnson runs again as a Libertarian. I like him. It will be third party for sure. I won't buy into this lesser of two evils thing. Evil is evil.

fish

I won't buy into this lesser of two evils thing. Evil is evil.

Ah Paul, since you won't buy into the "lesser of two evils thing"....good call incidentally.... you really need to consider my political organization. We're new but we have interesting ideas and what we feel is a likely wellspring of potential support! Of course, for numerous arcane, nefarious, and unseemly reasons we are supporting...as I'm sure you are aware...Hillary Clinton.

Hillary 2016: This time why not vote for the Greatest Evil

Just let me know and I'll get some lawn signs and stickers out to you!

So how much can I count on you to send us?

George Rebane

PaulE 1125am - You might be interested to know that Dr Carson has had extensive administrative experience in his career as a leading pediatric neurosurgeon (My familiarity of his duties comes from having lost a granddaughter to brain cancer after a 9-year-long battle which was managed by another world famous pediatric neurosurgeon).

However, your "As to those who support the good doctor, that crowd apparently doesn't think that some kind of administrative experience is necessary to be President." The gruberized crowd that twice voted in Obama very definitely did not think that "some kind of administrative experience" was necessary for their candidate to become president. But as you demonstrate, the Left is blind to such factors on their own side of the aisle.

fish

I have to agree with George on this one.....that crowd apparently doesn't think that some kind of administrative experience is necessary to be President.


Administrative Experience: It's what got the United States to where it is today!

Bill  Tozer

sight detour to the Fed. Food for thought:

The last time the privately owned Fed Reserve raised interest rates, the I-Pad was yet to be on the market.

Todd Juvinall

Gary Johnson is now loony. Too much Ganga! I listened to him numerous times and a person has to be stoned to want that nut as our leader.

Bill  Tozer

A Biden-Warren would generate much enthusiasm from the usual suspects no doubt. It would solve the current Lefty dilemma of "I would like to see a woman as President, but not that woman."
Warren as VP one heartbeat from Shotgun Joe would really bring out the white women in droves. And it's a two-fer-one. Image having the first female as Vice President in the history of the USofA, and having the first female of color as being the VP of the greatest country on earth.

Biden is no spring chicken, but his deep insights from his vast experience is what we really need in these troubling pessimistic times.
https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.254420818025296.63999.217926015008110/730517963748910/?type=1&theater

Bill  Tozer

Paul, Gary Johnson would be a good pic for you. What puzzles me and I can't quite wrap my head around is this:
After reading numerous postings from you about the Repubicrats and both parties are two sides of the same coin, is this really Paul speaking, or has someone stolen our Paul and replaced him with a professional politician from the Demopubican Party?
Paul, good grief man, get a grip on yourself. Biden? He is everything you have stood opposed to for years. He is the embodiment of everything you declare wrong with our political system. At least check your temperature to see if ya have a fever, which would explain everything. Hang in there Paul, I am sure this will pass.

Jon

I didn't hear Paul supporting Biden (and Warren) as his pick, just as the likely nominee and likely President. Which I agree with. I would have to hear Biden 2016 on the issues as well, but at this point, I would certainly pick him over any of the clowns on the Repub side, save POSSIBLY John Kasich, who I could consider if it came down to Kasich vs. Hillary. Obviously the center/right, experienced Kasich is not going anywhere within that Clown Car which is a damn shame.

Jon

Prediction 9/18/14: unless something very unexpected happens, your Republican nominee is going to be either Jeb!, Fiorina or Carson. The Big Money has already narrowed this down and will start imposing their will very soon as the other candidates start to financially starve. Trump peaked 2 weeks ago and the slow descent is beginning.

Jon

Uh oh, the Repubs mired in low single digits are seeing their staff throwing punches at each other. Nice job Trump! A real benefit to the GOP!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/18/top-rand-paul-aide-accuses-top-rubio-aide-of-punching-him-in-the-face/

fish

Posted by: Jon | 18 September 2015 at 01:37 PM

Nice job Trump! A real benefit to the GOP!


Why would republican election staffers throwing punches at each other trouble you at all?

fish

Like him or hate him he's saying good things on most of the issues........


https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights


I appreciate his "common sense" gun control proposals!

Jon

fish, you're occasionally cute with your quips but absolutely terrible with picking up sarcasm. And generally when you put exclamation points after something, it means you aren't particularly troubled. Amused- definitely, surprised at the Royal Rumblings within the GOP- not in the least. Not since the Entertainer, the Stand Up Act from the Catskills joined the group.

Todd Juvinall

Hillary excoriates Trump on not booting the planted questioner on Obama and guess what? She started the "truther" stuff herself in 2008! You just can't make this stuff up.

fish

fish, you're occasionally cute with your quips but absolutely terrible with picking up sarcasm.

Thank you (Exclamation Point) I'd say that I pick up on decent sarcasm....feel free to interpret that any way you like.


And generally when you put exclamation points after something, it means you aren't particularly troubled.

Uh okay! What would trouble me in the post you reference?


Amused- definitely, surprised at the Royal Rumblings within the GOP- not in the least. Not since the Entertainer, the Stand Up Act from the Catskills joined the group.

Ah...another reference to your attempt at sarcasm. Good..... got it now.

Jon

Good fish, glad neither of us is troubled at this point.

Bill  Tozer

Jon @ 1:23 in the pm:
Holy Delta Smelt!!! Jon is speaking to us from the past. Boy, a major breakthrough for those with homemade time machines:: "Prediction 9/18/14:". Or is he speaking to us from 2114 or 1814? Or from his usual other dimension? It's does not matter. What matters most is that I am so excited I am going to build me a clock without any housing and go show the Sheriffs my wonderful invention/ contraption. Sure, it won't be as cool as jon's time machine invention, but I am so excited anywhose.

Bill  Tozer

Yo Jon, was that being cute or clever? Fish, welcome to the C Club. Hey, gimme my style another Ccccccritique, will ya Jon. Please o pretty pwease. This is fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tanks Jon, tanks a rocket. You wok.

Bill  Tozer

Fish @ 1:46 pm in The Year of our Lord Two Thousand Fifteen:
Yo Fish The Cutie pie. Read the whole link but can't find the donate now button. Whatz up with dat? Help a brother out. Where is the button??

Paul Emery

George

Would you hire someone with no administrative experience to be CEO of one of your businesses?

Bill

My speculations about the elections have no connection to my own preference. I view it the same as sports handicapping. My guess right now is 80-20 for the Dems in the Presidential. The Repub team is going to beat themselves up pretty good in the next year. Jons 1:37 is just one example. It looks like the campaign boys are on steroids. Also there was the incident last week between Huckabay's goon boy and Cruz where he was given a firm body block to keep him out of the action at the staged Kim Davis ascendancy. Go to about 1:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpozrKp7AmU

Bill  Tozer

Well, that all makes sense. At this stage of the game, we are all handicappers. It does not bother me in the least that the Republicans will lose the gay vote. Like, Trump or no Trump, kiss their behinds or not, do you really think the Right will ever ever ever grab that 1.2 % of the voters. Yes, 1.2 percent to 2%. Now, off the top of my head, I would say maybe the gays and lesbos and queens would make up 5% of the population. But study after long term study I have drilled into shows it as around 1.2% in total, when you add both the male and female homosexuals together. One gender's % is usually higher than the other gender. Ah, make it 2.5% just to error on the side of caution, but it is really 1.2%. :)

What gets me is that 8 out of 10 Blacks have an unavorable view of The Trump. Holy Smokes! 20% don't ???? Unbelievable. Never thought that figure would ever be under 99% of the blacks having an unfavorable view of The Donald. Numbers are great for the Hispanic/Lation community as well. 1 out of 4 don't hate his guts?? Now look at women. They keep steadily and slowly breaking away and sneak of the Rez to support Trump. A few at a time, a tiny dribble at first, then a small artesian well steady small trickle leak.

Bottom line; it is even hard to handicap next year's Super Bowl Winner and place your bets today unless you are a bookie running numbers. I wish we had some Dem debates under our belts to get a pulse of the Demos and the general electret after their hours on Primetime. I expect big shifts right to left then right again for the next year. I will air on the side of caution and say 53-42-5 Dems. That should put an unbiased smile on yer mug.

Bill  Tozer

Oops. A link. Don't know if it is the right link, but a link just the same.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/18/meet-a-latino-supporter-of-donald-trump/

Bill  Tozer

This is for Jon. Here is a special treat for you, from Fox no less. It's what you have been trying to vocalize all along and what Dr. Rebane hints at. Doom, massive doom. I love it. tear it down or let it die. It is nature's way since your kind crawled out of the primordial ooze. My kind were born, but I digress. A peace offering if you will.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/08/31/america-youre-watching-beginning-end-republican-party.html?intcmp=sem_outloud

George Rebane

PaulE 420pm - No. That's one of the reasons I didn't vote for Obama.

On the migrant matter. If you decide to migrate from Turkey or Lebanon or Iraq, then you are an economic migrant and illegally enter EU countries under false pretenses.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/at-seas-edge-a-migrant-family-hesitates-1442618874

Paul Emery

So Bill the votes of Gays,Women, Blacks and Latinos are insignificant.

Paul Emery

George

Do Rubio and Cruz have the essential administrative backgrounds for the job?

Walt

I f Hell freezes over, and Sanders gets elected, will our military learn the goose step?
We would then be an official Commie nation.

George Rebane

PaulE 527pm - Accomplished senators usually do, so I assume so. But I may be wrong.

Walt

Hillary sure didn't.

Bill  Tozer

Mr. Paul @ 5:13
Paul, the total number of gay voters is insignificant in election returns. Not that any human or any voter in and of themselves are insignificant. Like, they are people too, dude. That was to avoid the trap. I reckon the majority of the gay and lesbo populations are in blue states overall, which just adds to the overwhelming majority of Democrats already solidly Dem in the electoral college. That is what I am spouting in general terms.
Having maybe 10% of the black vote at least open minded and maybe 15% of the Latino Salsa vote as a starting point ain't a bad place to start. From here, we just keep peeling away a few at a time through the Holidays and wait to see what hats and whose hats are tossed in the ring by Feb.
The rest just causes butt hurt feelings.

Bill  Tozer

Oh Paul. The votes on women are indeed sufficient. Like, they are people, too. Women are Hillary's base, period. That base is starting to get show stress cracks in it. The idea is when the rats are first the leave a sinking ship, it is best to have a net at the ready to bring them on over. Drip, drip, drip.

Bill  Tozer

Oh Paul, it's me. People under age 25? They are in the Dem camp historically. In fact, if a young buck votes straight Republican, it makes the news,
The old campus joke, "Everybody on campus is a liberal, except the accounting majors. They are libertarians." Nothing new under the sun except if Bernie does not survive Debbi's Convention, will the young lads and lassies bother to show up and vote for Biden. He is an unknown to them after all these years. joe who? Nothing new under the sun...except free college on a stick dangling before the young minds of oatmeal.

Ben Emery

Another example of systemic racism in law enforcement. More big brother for you guys to defend.

Kamilah Brock: Woman held in mental health facility because police didn't believe BMW was hers
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-woman-held-in-mental-hospital-because-police-didnt-believe-bmw-was-hers-10498704.html

Bill  Tozer

Old news, but thanks for sharing.

Todd Juvinall

Hey Ben Emery, did you attend any of those white cops murdered by black perps this year? You are a real turd sucker.

Paul Emery

"Turd sucker" Todd? You are a real class act. Haven't used language like that since Jr High in Oklahoma.

Bill  Tozer

My, this is going swell. Oh Todd, you really know how to get folks to pick on ya. At least you didn't say turd burglar, which really would have rocked the boat. Always a silver lining.

Bill  Tozer

And while we sleep, the EU is playing the hot potato toss.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/19/world/europe-migrant-crisis/

Good to see the Swiss belly up to the bar and say "Ah shucks, we'll take 1,500 if ....if..."

Bill  Tozer

And while the Ismaiic Fighters try to sleep, the Syrians act like Arabs. Too funny.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/18/rule-no-1-of-islamic-state-etiquette-dont-bogart-cellphone-chargers/?tid=hybrid_collaborative_3_na

Todd Juvinall

The lamestreams are trying to make Trump responsible for a loony tune guy at his townhall. This morning the local lames in Sacramento TV were at it too. Why is it that a person has to be personally responsible for a "question" asked by a unknown person at a gathering free to attend? Only if it is a Republican as usual.

Trump says he on;y heard the end of the question. I think the guy was probably a Hillary or DNC plant.

fish

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 19 September 2015 at 08:33 AM

Why is it that a person has to be personally responsible for a "question" asked by a unknown person at a gathering free to attend? Only if it is a Republican as usual.

I think the guy was probably a Hillary or DNC plant.


Not exactly.....a fundamental tenet of progressivism is that you must always publicly demonstrate that you practice "goodthinkfulness".

That Trump chooses not to do so confuses them.

Todd Juvinall

Well I posted on Channel 13's FB just now. Of course they will never respond. All I mentioned was why don't they treat the D's the same way? They are more concerned with the non-response of Trump than they are with the lack of leadership by Hillary on the Benghazi murders. Amazing!

fish

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 19 September 2015 at 09:01 AM

They are more concerned with the non-response of Trump than they are with the lack of leadership by Hillary on the Benghazi murders.

Well that certainly seems to be true.

Steven Frisch

"A mother from another country is almost nine months pregnant and sneaks across the border to pop the kid and that kid is an American? Not in my book. Let's keep those illegal families together though. We will rent a minivan and take that family south or back to any other country. China too has a "anchor baby" scam on the west coast. What do people expect? Do you want America to be overrun? Do you want to water down the intelligence of the country? It is happening all over."--Todd Juvinall, Sierra Dragon's Breathe [sic]

Yeah, so let's leave Trump alone. We don't need to look to Trump we have Todd :)

Todd, do you believe that people from China and Latin America are inherently less 'intelligent' than Americans?

fish

Todd rather than answer Steves "bait" question why don't you counter by asking what population number he considers sustainable in the United States to main the most favorable set of conditions for a healthy economy, a healthy environment, the overall health of the governments social safety net, etc. and how the mass importation of south and central Americans fits into this?

Steven Frisch

Posted by: fish | 19 September 2015 at 09:30 AM

What an interesting question Fish.

To answer the question I will have to do so in two parts.

The first part is dispelling the notion that what we are seeing today in immigration constitutes a relative "mass importation" of new Americans.

The percentage of foreign born residents of the United States today is roughly 13%, approximately just under 50% of them naturalized citizens, and just over 50% non citizens. Of the foreign born population 53% are latin american of which 29% are from Mexico. If one were to measure both first and second generation immigrants in 1900, 34.5 percent of the US population was first or second generation; in 2012 it was 24.5 percent.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acs-19.pdf

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0707/Immigration-Assimilation-and-the-measure-of-an-American

The numbers of asian and latin American migrants to the US in the last 40 years as a percentage of our overall population is actually a smaller migration of people to the country than we have experienced at several other times in US history. Our percentages of foreign born residents was higher, in the 15% range, several times between the 1850's and 1920's. In general the US has hovered between a low of 6% and a high of 15% since roughly 1850 so we are within the historic average range.

But another way to measure immigration is the rate of assimilation. Once again citing Vigor from the CSM:

"In his most recent index, this year, Vigdor found that immigrants to the US today were more assimilated than at any time in the past decade. He attributes this primarily to demographic shifts in post-recession America – new Mexican migrants, who typically score lower on his index, are down in numbers; while Asian migrants, who tend to be from a higher socioeconomic level and score higher on his assimilation index, have increased."

There is a substantial body of evidence that shows that assimilation of recent immigrant populations actually occurs at a much faster rate today than assimilation of other populations did in the past. But it is also true that measuring assimilation by modern standards is a bit unfair, the rates of cultural, cvivi and economic assimilation in the modern world are much more higher because they are driven by access to education and communications. Regardless statistics show that the rate of english language proficiency, homeownership [which is good pray for economic stake in a society] and educational completion are much higher today than they were in the past, even relative to societal norms. If there is an area of slower assimilation for some populations is it in geographic distribution, but then geographic distribution in the 19th century was more driven by access to agricultural land than it is today.

https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2010/09/pdf/immigrant_assimilation.pdf

Bill  Tozer

Steve @ 9:20an

Great question, Mr. Frisch. That has always been the crux of many a gentleman's exchange I have had with Brother Ben until I recently figured out that he should f the heck off with his constant race baiting posts.
Is one culture or ethnicity more or less inherently more intelligent or less intelligent than another? We talk about good ole Yankee ingenuity or precision German engineering, or the Chinese ability to copy and replicate items, but what about just plain intelligence of one race over another as measured by some uniform standard. There may be a race of folks with higher inate intelligence or capacity for learning, but I have not researched the topic, thus I plead ignorance of the the premise.
Ok, let's get down to brass tacks. I believe we are all created unequal due to some are quicker on their feet, have more smarts, better stronger teeth at birth, natural abilities, taller, stronger or weaker, swifter, better sight and hearing, brighter, dumber, etc. That applies for any individual within a group. But, that is not the question posed.
I feel the Liberal wing of the Democrat Party believes that Americans of color are less able, less naturally equipped if you will, and are in effect, lesser intelligent than "normal" people. Putting aside the affects of environment and looking solely at heredity, the question is why do I arrive at this conclusion??

Answer: through simple unplanned observation. Why else does the Left believe strongly that brown people need extra attention and help before, at. and after the starting line. Are they any less industrious, creative, intelligent, or able than you or me? Never! However, even suggesting someone obtain an ID becomes a Herculanian effort and emotionally charged political football. They need help, they need to be shown this or that, this help or that door just to do what most people here do little effort. They apparently to the Lefties cannot complete on a level playing field without special assistance for their special needs. HOGWASH.
Any individual can do what another has done. Sure, we all will not be Einsteins and I ain't talking about the exceptions to the rule.
It does not take anything more than average intelligence to become a millionaire if one intuitively understands how to play the game or can be mentored from others, assuming that is one's goal.
The kind of thinking that a person of color is less able, is less talented than Brother Ben or me or you (thus requiring the special bus to get them through the school of life) is nonsense and at its very core racist. Telling an individual they cannot do what others do with impunity without bending the rules or Uncle Joe Liberal's guiding hand is telling the individual they are less than "normal people."
Heck, Dr. Carson was raised in the slums of Detriot by a poverty stricken single mother. No dad, no money, in and out of fights as a troubled youth, and lost in this world until he put all the blame and responsibitly on the guy in the mirror. We all know he became a pioneer in his field as well as serving on the Board of several corporations.
Go tell Dr. Carson or that C student Colin Powell that they cannot make it without special assistance and bending the rules because of their race or ethnicity. Tell that to our President (albeit he never had the Black Experience growing up). That would be racist, yet that is exactly what the Liberals believe by their deeds and actions and speech.

Even if one group or tribe was found to be less intelligent than another per some future research, any individual from Timbuctu can excell or waste away, without excuses.

My favorite saying along this topic is one I heard from a Lousianna cop. "Up North, they love the race but hate the man. Down here, we hate the race, but love the man."
Which one of the two practices racism?

Steven Frisch

Posted by: fish | 19 September 2015 at 09:30 AM

"...what population number he considers sustainable in the United States to main the most favorable set of conditions for a healthy economy, a healthy environment, the overall health of the governments social safety net, etc."

The second part of the answer is more complicated. To answer in a sentence I would say I don;t believe there is a 'sustainable' number per se, because other factors need to be taken into account. You are actually asking one of the most difficult questions to answer in ecological economics.

The sustainable population is based not just on access to resources that sustain a population, but in the case of human populations, the efficiency of the use of the resources available to them. The relative wealth of a society dramatically affects efficiency of use--the more wealthy a society is the more efficient the use of resources tends to be-- because innovation and technology are constantly increasing the efficient use of resources and wealthy countries diffuse innovation faster than poorer ones do. Also included in the mix is the consumption rate of resources and consumption rates vary with culture. A good example of this would be that Californians are now using approximately 60% of the water on a per capita basis that we did just 4 years ago due to drought; scarcity and surplus affect cultural norms for what is socially acceptable consumption, and that is a 'moving' number as well.

So the question becomes one of the balance between population impact and the efficient use of resources. There is a classic formula describing this called the I=PAT formula: impact equals population times affluence times technology, I = PAT. I'm not sure I buy the formula because the externalities affecting sustainable use are also affected by culture and the I:PAT formula uses affluence and technology as proxies for culture.

Another way to look at sustainable population might be relative density of population compared to access to resources. The US has a relatively low population density [32 people per square kilometer] compared to Europe and Asia and is resource rich, which would make a pretty strong argument for thinking we could increase our population significantly, perhaps over 1 billion people in the US, and still be 'sustainable'.

Finally I think it is important to note that there are certainly things we could to to fuck up the 'formula'; for example if pollution, resource depletion, climate change, and mass extinction limit resources and the ecological services we depend upon we start pushing on the other side of the ballon while our population is increasing, magnifying the effect of un-sustainable practices. Our goal should be ever increasing wealth combined with cultural affinity for stable consumption while maintaining natural resources. That is why I am a capitalist--because even though flawed and in need of reform, it is to date by far the most efficient system devised to allocate resources.


Bill  Tozer

Steve @ 10:28 am.

Your research is good. However to address Fish's inquiry, the mass immigration during the Industrial Revolution was needed to build our cities, factories, libraries, railroads, etc. Today's domestic economy is not going through a building boom of hundreds of dams and big projects. We have a declining workforce, lowest participation rate since...what, 40 years?
Another apples to oranges comparison is higher (and lower) education. Prior to World War 2, even the U of Michigan was considered akin to an Ivy League School only for those born with a silver spoon in their months. Education in the 1800's was not as mandatory in the middle grades thru high school as it is now. Minor points.

So, what SPECIFIC skills must an immigrate posses that our country needs desperately today to address our Nation's current and future needs? If immigrants cannot fill a void, why in the heck would anyone allow them to stay beyond their visas? Are you gently advocating diversity for diversity's sake as opposed to immigration that will strengthen our economy and build our future and fulfill present needs?

Walt

That hit job on Trump sure has grown legs. CNN busted again, and by another LIB news outfit no less.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/09/19/fact-check-wapo-blasts-cnn-for-lying-about-trump-and-muslims/
"The left-wing CNN was taken to task Saturday by no less than the left-wing Washington Post after CNN anchor Anderson Cooper was caught red-handed lying about Donald Trump. On his show Friday night, the increasingly shrill Cooper claimed that Trump said, “[W]e’re going to be looking at that, we’re going to be looking at the Muslims in America.”

That’s a lie.

Trump said no such thing.

Not even close. "

Bill  Tozer

Walt, ever since Anderson publicly came out of the closet, he has become too emotional and has lost whatever objectivity he had. They should have him doing an opinion show like O' Riley or Mr. Ed, not In a news broadcast role. His producers show be fired if he was reading script. If he was ad libbing, he should control himself and just deliver the news. What was his profession role when he spouted lies? Broadcaster or opinion show? He gets paid to read news. Read the news. If he gets paid to spout his wisdom, then let him spout. I don't even watch him, so I do not know his duties at CNN. Ted Turner would probably cheer him if Ted still had his finger in the pie.

George Rebane

In the US our system of free enterprise allows the most facile replacement of labor with technology (capital). This means that GDP can keep increasing with fewer workers in the workforce, resulting in an increase in systemic unemployment which is already well underway. This evolution of our economy also promotes greater wealth and income inequality, even though everyone’s QoL still keeps increasing (trickle down and all that). But to keep blood from the gutters, we must redistribute wealth prudently so as not to kill the golden goose.

So, since the progressives are constantly carping about our already resident ‘poor’ needing more redistributed wealth, why would we IN THESE TIMES invite more foreigners to immigrate or permit them to illegally enter unless it can be shown that they in the aggregate can contribute to social stability and the wealth that government will distribute to others?

And is an ethnic group in America really assimilated when they overwhelmingly foster policies that continue to support illegal entry and subsequent amnesty of their ethnic compatriots into our country? We are not here talking about immigration – which is a two-party legal contract.

Todd Juvinall

Why on earth would we want to import more poor people? My goodness our caring sociopaths like Frisch can't even take care of our homeless veterans. But he is stumped now by Fish. What is the ideal population number? Frisch can't answer it. No surprise there. Just a blowhard.

Anyone been to Mexico over the years? Notice all the crap on the sides of the roads, vacant lots and even parking lots? Trash everywhere. The Mexicans are littler bugs in their own country. You want that here? Along with diseases we have defeated and thought were gone? You want those Mexican cartels moving north? Chopped off heads of our young people on pikes on the freeways?

We have a different culture. We have a better culture. We are modern and most of the world is not. We are a generous people and we have allowed many less than reliable people to come here. I could care less if the percentages are less than ever with immigrants. We are now 320 million people. When WW2 started we were 130 million and there was a moratorium on immigrants. The country wanted assimilation to take place. It worked until LBJ and Teddy Kennedy wrecked the laws.

We need a moratorium on entrance of other people. Say for 25 years or so. When they are assimilated then open the gates. We also must disallow the system of bringing in all your relatives. What is that all about? That is ridiculous. You come here alone and your relatives stay in their country.

No anchor babies either. If Frisch likes them let him take them into his home and he can pay for them.

Steven Frisch

"But to keep blood from the gutters, we must redistribute wealth prudently so as not to kill the golden goose."

On this George and I agree....I just wish you kept it in mind a little more often when you rail against any redistribution.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 19 September 2015 at 12:09 PM

I totally answered the question....you just can't stand the fact that some questions have complex answers that your feeble little mind can't embrace.

George Rebane

StevenF 102pm - Have never railed "against any distribution", and am on record on these pages for acknowledging the need for wealth redistribution in these pre-Singularity years. In my talks to conservatives I include this requirement and sometimes have to talk them down from apoplexy after I first present the case for it.

The problem is that the reasonable recognition of the need for wealth redistribution in an economy goes hand-in-hand with population reduction. According Rebane Doctrine it is a form of societal insanity to promote population growth in an economic order by adding people who cannot produce sufficient excess wealth to improve the QoL of those ALREADY RESIDENT AND ON THE DOLE in the economy.

Paul Emery

RE Todd 833 AM

Todd writes:

" The lamestreams are trying to make Trump responsible for a loony tune guy at his townhall."

Well Todd thanks for agreeing with me that a high percentage of Repubs are looney. Here's the numbers:

"Twenty-nine percent of Americans and 43 percent of Republicans believe President Obama is a Muslim, according to a CNN/ORC poll released on Sunday. And 20 percent of Americans think he was born outside the United States."

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/09/14/facts-figures-43-percent-of-republicans-think-obama-is-muslim/

Account Deleted

S.F. at 1:01 "On this George and I agree....I just wish you kept it in mind a little more often when you rail against any redistribution."

'Any' redistribution? Yes, we certainly need to have the tax paying proles support billionaires with handouts and tax breaks. At least Steven is honest about his desire to use the govt gun to take money from me to give to folks with a far higher income.
The info you will never get from Frisch is the limit to how much we tax and spend to support eaters and lay-abouts. And the lefties will never acknowledge that a swell lifestyle handed to folks to free will just encourage more and more folks that see no need to work or better themselves.

Paul Emery

George

How do you propose population be "reduced" re your 1:15. China tried to do that with strict birth limits. Is something like that what you have in mind? Would that be a State mandated and enforced program?

Russ

Paul@02:10PM

Mother Nature is going to take care of the population problem aided by the progressives preparing the population for global warming. Warming that is not happening now and will not happen over the next 20-30 years as the earth grows colder.

The current growing seasons in the earth's breadbaskets will grow shorter and shorter, with late spring killing frosts and early fall storms damaging the crops. The result will be starvation around the world, and hunger and cold will take there toll on the current population. Especially a population which is being told the real danger is global warming, they will be unprepared for the next mini ice age. Oh, and yes a cooling Pacific produces extended droughts in the Western US that will also have an impact on crop production. Read the West With Out Water, we have been living in a benign period for 200 year between periods of climate chaos.

Hopefully the population loss will not exceed more than a few billion.

Todd Juvinall

Steve Frisch never answers questions because I see he is not too smart to attempt them
Is Frisch really that stupid? Looks like it to me.

Paul Emery, so you have the proof the guy at the Trump meeting was a Republican? You seem to love to put words in other peoples mouths. Answer my questions first and then a true "conversation" may take place.

Paul Emery

Doesn't matter what party he was. You called him looney for stating Obama was a Muslim ahd I noted that 43% of Republicans have the same view according to recent polls, therefore they must be looney as well. What is your view Todd? Is Obama a Muslim?

Bill  Tozer

Well, that was a nice long thang to avoid Fish's question of 9:30am.

Let's try this again, perhaps starting with the bottom question and working our way up to see if the results change.

Todd rather than answer Steves "bait" question why don't you counter by asking what population number he considers sustainable in the United States to main the most favorable set of conditions for a healthy economy, a healthy environment, the overall health of the governments social safety net, etc. and how the mass importation of south and central Americans fits into this?

George Rebane

PaulE 307pm - You really have to read ALL of my 115pm. If the GDP of an economy can be made to grow fast enough with ever fewer people creating the wealth, then we see that population may not have to be reduced at all with a proper redistribution scheme that does not disincentivize the workers. If the systemically unemployed increase and workers are disincentivized, as is happening in the EU now and has already happened in almost all third world countries, then we will have riots, revolution, and ruin (RRR). QoL will dive into the mud.

So it's all about GDP growth vs population growth. And the schemes to keep things on an even keel and avoid RRR are many and have been studied in capitalist and free market academies for generations. Bottom line is that economic growth is the salve that needs to be liberally applied so that we can figure out new and better redistribution programs.

One approach that may stabilize population growth is to establish strict controls on the dole franchise. New technologies may make that very workable. A tenet of such franchise would be that more babies do not bring in more dole. And the progressives will have to learn that freedom and free stuff sit on opposite ends of a see-saw. The 2-digit IQ types will need to be taught that. Tough problems, none of which can be solved without growth.

And growth requires an educated people with minimally regulated markets, incentivizing tax rates, security of self and property, and most of all liberty. That spells pretty much a 180 turn from the direction we are heading.

Bill  Tozer

Well, I will ever so gently change gears to QofL issues. Ok, how many.....er....never mind. The Gov't stopped tracking this kind of stuff when Obama became President.

http://patriotpost.us/posts/37691

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 19 September 2015 at 03:24 PM

OK so let me restate this in a way everyone will understand.....and it is where George and I seem to agree...it is not about A number, it is about the equation of population, wealth, and economic efficiency. And its not just about a US population, its about a global population, at least until technology takes us to the stars.


Bill  Tozer

And the reasoning behind letting in unnumbered hordes of people without skills from Central and South America fits into the balance of our safety nets and economy and protection/wise stewards of our resources is exactly what?

Speaking of complicated questions with complicated answers, this reminds me of what Debbi answered when Chris Matthews asked her twice point blank what is the difference between a Democrat and a socialist? Today she was asked about debates. Same answer both times! She said instead of focusing on that, we should be focusing on the extreme Republican blah, blah, blah, silly boy. She is consistent I tell ya.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/revolt-dems-heckle-debbie-asking-more-debates_1033266.html#!

Don Bessee

There is an old story about a guy who would tell people he was in show business. No one really questioned it as he played the part as an affectation. When a vapid girl who was hanging out asked what exactly did he do in show business he replied with a straight face that he scooped up elephant shit at Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bayley Circus. Can someone please call the show business guy who follows Frischy around please? ;-) Smoke em if you got em.

George Rebane

StevenF 710pm - Well, I am not prepared to expand immediately into a global economy and the global population. That requires more hubris than I have to spare. We have yet to discover the transfer function of even a small economy that reacts kindly to central planning. Therefore we should proceed as a community of nations each trying their own brand of economic management and growth, and each learning from those whose system works better.

We have made some strides toward such a natural distributed solution (Nature abhors central control, and has ALWAYS robustly sustained itself with distributed control and distributed knowledge), and should wait until we are much wiser as a species before we risk joining in a global world order.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 19 September 2015 at 08:05 PM

What I find amazing is that Fish asked me a question, I answered it in detail with sources, and the demons dancing on the head of a pin here just can't seem to accept the fact that I thoroughly answered the question.

Don, I can't help it if you are too dense to understand the answer.

Todd, I expect you to be too stupid to understand the answer.

George, I am amazed that you waste your time with these people. You know as well as I do that economies and resources are global, so an equation including national population has to take that into account.

Let me answer the question in an even simpler way; it is a stupid fucking question. The question itself shows just how shallow the pool of intellect here is.

George Rebane

StevenF 949pm - I think you missed my point about the loci of planning and control. Even though world trade connects the several economies - each under their own planning and control agency/schema - such trade does not make the economies into one centrally planned and controlled economy. And an even approximately reliable "equation" (the math model or transfer function) for an economy of which you speak is not known, as the appalling history of planned economies demonstrates.

To promote global government that plans and controls the world economy, you have to explicitly explain away 1) the absence of such a knowledge base for such planning and control, and 2) if such central planning and control would have had any benefits (e.g. efficiency, sustainability, survival value), then it would have evolved naturally into cohorts of critters, eco-systems, even earth's tectonics that had loci of central planning and control.

Since that has not been observed, and the exact opposite (i.e. distributed planning/control) is known to have brought us this far, it seems (at least to those of us who have studied these things in great technical detail) to require more than a bit of hubris to forcefully take control of a people and their economy so that we can start planning and controlling the betterment of their lives.

The best solution we have found so far is a form of minimally regulated capitalism and free markets all operating in a liberal society of free people.

This is the essential difference between conservatarian (Bastiat, von Mises, Hayek, Hazlett, Friedman, ...) and collectivist (Marx/Engels, Lenin, Hitler, Mao, ...) world views.

Don Bessee

Well that response was special in a little bus way. LOL

Account Deleted

"Let me answer the question in an even simpler way; it is a stupid fucking question."

Oh, good - the F bomb. C'mon Steve - just admit you can't answer the question.
The left is adamant that we not try to control other countries but insist we can't solve our current national problems until we solve the world's problems. In other words - it ain't gonna happen. But we should feel real guilty about everything not being all fair and equal.

fish

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 19 September 2015 at 09:49 PM

George, I am amazed that you waste your time with these people. You know as well as I do that economies and resources are global, so an equation including national population has to take that into account.

Let me answer the question in an even simpler way; it is a stupid fucking question. The question itself shows just how shallow the pool of intellect here is.

Yeah pretty stupid.....yet you typed for 45 minutes plus research.

Almost as stupid as asking Todd if he thinks Chinese and Latins are dumber than Americans. Almost as stupid as engaging with Baron Fatkonnen over freedom of speech issues in his cat box of ignorance. Certainly every bit as stupid as you trying to discuss science with George or Greg with anything other than an expression of rapt wonder on your face.

Yep...stupid.

Paul Emery

George

You must have some modern examples of governments going in the direction you prefer. You paint such a stark picture of the upcoming collapse of most of the world. Can you provide us with a few examples of countries going in the right direction that perhaps are worth emulating? Please, nothing 19th Century since we've already covered that .

Don Bessee

Watching 0's administration trying to explain why the scum bag Russians are building up in Syria is worse than you can keep your insurance. Ok well lets look at that. A flight of interceptors not ground attack air goes to Syria. The latest anti air run by ruskies. Air base ground defense and all starting off after the Iranians head of the revolutionary guard visited Moscow. That was in gross violation of existing UN sanctions on the terrorist. Why would they want an air defense base in a country that has no air threats? Gee they could use it to check any Israeli air strikes in Syria or even passing by on the way to Iran or they could even accidently hit us or the turks if we don't play nice. How's that red line working frischy?

Account Deleted

Paul - pretty strange post. You are saying that we always have to follow and never lead. If there is nothing better in front of us we just what? Give up?
America has always been the leader since our inception.
There is nothing better - we are the leaders. The rest of the world looks to us to lead. But we can do much more. We need to uphold the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. George speaks of world history. We know what leads to mass slaughter and barbarism. What is coming has happened time and time again in the past. If you can not learn from history, you will repeat it.
The idea that it can not happen again is folly.

fish

Somebody needs to tell the soccer mom with the stick figure family on the back of the beat up Subaru that -

"........TAKE BACK "OUR COUNTRY", ARE CODE WORDS SPREAD BY THE RACIST RIGHT-WING"

They're on Bernie Sanders campaign bumper stickers. Probably a custom one though....I checked the campaign website and didn't see them there.


sigh.....that would have been thuper!

Bill  Tozer

Oh Steve, it's a new day. You are off the hook as I borrowed Hillary's Reset Button she used on the Russian Foreign Minister. Boy, that made the Ruskie smile. :)
I do not expect you to be an expert on all things under the sun. In the case of how illegal aliens fit into overall economic efficiency, safety nets, wealth, use of natural resources, pollution, etc, you and I are just plain 'o statisticians at this point. Yes, our opinions matter, but only matter to us. Note: Not to be confused with Plaino, TX where Lays potato chips and makers of carbonated beverages in aluminum cans are headquartered.

It's a new day! So, what's on your plate today? A little R&R, meditation, and perhaps some pestering the good old rednecks and inbred hillbillies? I hope so.
Have you noticed the Trump effect? I have. Frees me up from dancing around words so I can get to the point quicker. Liked your short description of the question posed. Short and sweet and direct. It's a f-bomb stupid question says it all, does it not? See, the Trump effect is catching on. Big hugs and kisses. Stay warm up there in them thar hills.

Bill  Tozer

Ok, "The dawn is breaking, it's early morn. Taxi is waiting, he's blowing his horn. Already I am so lonesome I could cry." Written by John Denver. How come nobody plays his country boy songs anymore?? He was not by favorite anyway. He looked like he was ready to cry at any moment and he hoarded petro during the gas shortage in buried tanks in the virgin Rocky Mountains. What a Putz.
Hmm. Well, time to get into the real topics, the real important stuff. Let's talk about the elephant in the room shall we?

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/731541900313183/?type=1&theater

Poor Hiilary, the next president of The United States of America. She, for one, will never stop working day and night for the working families of America fa sha. It's so unfair.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.254420818025296.63999.217926015008110/731325233668183/?type=1&theater


Bill  Tozer

Oh boy, my man almost stepped in it....not!!

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-candidate-carson-muslims-shouldnt-elected-president-130119296--election.html

I guess this means that my man is for free speech, the current law of the land, and saving lives. He is too radical for most.

Bill  Tozer

Yo Hilary...Obama needs to borrow your Reset Button as well.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/devil-made-obamas-foreign-policy-141602608.html

The buck stops with the devil.

Bill  Tozer

At airport, one for the road

http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Family/2013/0812/1912-eighth-grade-exam-Could-you-make-it-to-high-school-in-1912/Arithmetic

George Rebane

PaulE 1038pm - This barn has been circled before. No, I can't show another country to follow. As ScottO points out in his 1055pm, we have been the leaders for over two centuries in setting the example of governance for both economic and personal freedoms (slavery excepted). As dumbth has grown, some smaller countries more educated and with cohesive cultures pulled ahead of us. We cannot follow in their footsteps because today we are too large, diverse, unassimilated, and hell bent on the road to socialism. Our return to leadership requires the kind of reformation that I and other readers here have espoused.

Bill  Tozer

I lied. Another one for the road. See ya on the flip side. God Bless Tiny Tim,

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/pb.217926015008110.-2207520000.1442763798./732316190235754/?type=1&theater

Gregory

"Can you provide us with a few examples of countries going in the right direction that perhaps are worth emulating? Please, nothing 19th Century since we've already covered that"
-Paul Emery

With that time restriction, I'd suggest the United States circa 1791 (18th century), the year the Bill of Rights was fully ratified.

Todd Juvinall

Worthy of emulation? Jeeze, shortchanging America like every good lib. Does that make you feel special? Do your toes tingle when you ask those ridiculous questions? America is the greatest country conceived and put into practice and you ask where else is a country we should emulate? Amazing. I expect that from a fat ass like Frisch but not from a member of the military Paul. Where does that kind of question come from?

Bill  Tozer

Worthy of emulation?, he asks. Ah, just throw some bleach on the walls and it's good as new. Been awhile since fresh faces were used for various groundbreaking experiments. Ah, they will do just fine. Emulation, he asks.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150913/1026945359/germany-asylum-seekers-buchenwald.html

Todd Juvinall

Looks like Nate Beason is not going to run for another term.

Todd Juvinall

How come scoopy missed it?

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