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04 October 2015

Comments

Bill  Tozer

Dr. Rebane, hard to imagine any state rivaling Illinois's pension woes or just plain financial woes for that matter. Doesn't Vermont have 2 Senators that should be able to bail them out?

Meanwhile, The UN is not exactly pleased with Sweden. The UN should make them stop.
http://qz.com/516017/sweden-is-not-the-tolerant-raceless-paradise-it-claims-to-be/?utm_source=YPL

Joe Koyote

Perhaps if the wall street mavens and hedge fund goons paid their fair share of income taxes like everybody else, there wouldn't be a problem.

Bill  Tozer

Well, time to stock up on buff balls. Those wild and crazy juvenal delinquents are getting closer to our humble abodes. Note to self: Do not buy a home near any public school.

http://ipad.aol.com/article/2015/10/04/four-california-students-arrested-for-plotting-mass-shooting/21244682/

Bill  Tozer

joe K, that is exactly what The Donald is saying, without the "there would not be a problem" part. Imagine all the money that the Great State of New York could rake in. Does Vermont have state income tax? Most likely.

fish

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 05 October 2015 at 08:27 AM

Your just adorable when you're trying to be populist!

"As we go up the Pareto distribution pyramid, the concentration of wealth increases dramatically. We find that something in the range of 1% of the population owns something in the range of half of the wealth. But these 1% are being supplied with information that is significantly better than the information supplied to those in the next 19 percentage points down. They have spectacularly gifted lawyers, accountants, and other specialists who can provide information on evading taxes.

Entrepreneurs at the top rely heavily on lawyers and accountants. It is only after great fortunes are accumulated, either by individuals or corporations, that the big payoff comes from employing creative accountants and creative lawyers. The average man cannot afford this kind of legal talent. But the rich, and especially the super-rich, are perfectly capable of hiring such talent, and this talent is also extremely useful in advising the super-rich on how to persuade Congressmen to vote for certain kinds of tax adjustments. So, what we find is this: over the decades, the super-rich get richer because they can hire the very best professional talent, and this talent is concentrated on one thing above all other things: how to beat the legal system.

This means that at the highest levels of income, the government is almost impotent in collecting revenues. It can get its token revenues, but I'm talking about revenues that are consistent with the Pareto distribution of wealth. There is what we sometimes call an asymmetric distribution of power. The masses think they have power, but they don't. The Pareto distribution of wealth guarantees that the masses, who don't vote systematically, are always behind the curve. The super-rich, who concentrate their attention on the tax code, and who concentrate their donations on specific Congressmen, gain the lion's share of the power.

The masses elect somebody whose rhetoric seems to correspond with what the masses want. But rhetoric is cheap. In any case, most voters know that politicians lie, and once they are in office, they are not going to deliver the goods. That's why people in the United States vote so infrequently. This is why people don't bother to vote. They know they're being lied to, and it's too much trouble to follow all of the issues. But if you are a billionaire, or a multi-billionaire, you hire people who follow the issues. You can influence Congress to vote on some obscure amendment to the tax code, that nobody understands, other than lawyers and accountants of the super-rich. So they get the tax code they want, and the average voter knows nothing about it.

All of this has to do with the Pareto distribution. People don't seem to understand the extent to which the Pareto distribution influences legislation related to the accumulation and transfer of wealth. Those who are actually interested in this are the super-rich. The average Congressman is not interested in it, and he pays no attention. So, the tax code is revised, year after year, and the beneficiaries are people in the highest tax brackets. In fact, they don't get hit by these high tax brackets. They are in fact in lower tax brackets in the upper-middle-class.

This leads to greater concentration of wealth. Surprise, surprise.

This wealth is never going to be transferred to the federal government. These people do not hire lawyers at $500 an hour and accountants at comparable rates in order to wind up paying much money to the federal government. These massive concentrations of capital are never going to be taxed, because they're going to be transferred to nonprofit, tax-exempt foundations. The foundations will hire administrators to give away the wealth, slowly, and not to touch the capital at all.

There are certain restraints on how much capital can be accumulated. But the large foundations keep getting larger. When you think of what the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is going to be worth after Gates's death and after Buffett's death, you will have some idea of the amount of money we're talking about. It will easily be over $150 billion. It may wind up being closer to $200 billion. This money is not going to get taxed by the federal government.

Furthermore, when these organizations own stocks, they can buy and sell the stocks, and they pay nothing on capital gains. They are tax-exempt. So the usual taxation of commercial capital will not work any longer.

These people are not going to pay the 55% inheritance tax, and once the transfer is made, the foundations are not going to pay for the buying and selling of assets. Whatever profits they make on the investments will stay inside the nonprofit foundations. Federal, state, and municipal governments will not be able to tax these entities.

This is going to further the accumulation of wealth. It will be imitated around the world.

It is in the interest of the super-rich not to let governments get more than a token percentage of their capital. They can finance whatever their favorite causes are, and the government is not going to be able to interfere with the administration and allocation of this capital. From a legal standpoint, the Internal Revenue Service is almost helpless in gaining any kind of payments out of these organizations. These organizations hire lawyers that are better by far than the lawyers hired by the Internal Revenue Service. The same is true of the accountants. The IRS is outgunned and outmanned when it deals with the rich and especially the super-rich.

The welfare state is premised on the fact that the rich will pay their fair share. This has been utter poppycock from the beginning. The rich are not going to pay their fair share; they are going to pay less than whatever the upper middle class pays. In terms of percentage of expenses, they prefer to pay lawyers over IRS agents. So, this is what they do.

The welfare state is premised on the fact that all this money is going to come in at the death of each of the super-rich capitalists. I estimate that almost none of this money will ever go to the government. Only 55% of whatever is transferred to the heirs will go to the government, and the heirs will probably be compensated in a different way. They will go on to the board of directors, which will be paid, of the nonprofit foundations. They will become salaried employees. They will not live spectacular lifestyles, but the money they inherit from their parents will take care of that.

Revenues collected from the super-rich will always lag behind the growth in welfare obligations to the middle class and the poor. This is why the great default is certain. The money is not going to come in. Meanwhile, the money is going to flow out. The unfunded liabilities will overwhelm Social Security and especially Medicare.

The super-rich can put their names on their foundations and thereby gain their legacies. They can hire bureaucrats who are committed to funding the particular charitable causes of the donors. The donors are not going to fund the IRS. They are not interested in funding the political careers of Congress. Congressmen have their agendas, and they use these agendas to formulate rhetoric, which in turn is used to bamboozle the voters. The rich are going to make certain that their money never gets into this sandbox system of wealth redistribution. The nonprofit foundations were invented by Rockefeller and his lawyers before World War I. That system is going to be expanded as there are more and more millionaires and multimillionaires.

The voters figured they would make the rich pay their fair share. They were wrong. The voters figured they could vote themselves a comfortable retirement at the expense of the fat cats. They will experience something very different. Voters think they're going to use the state to extract wealth from people in the top 1%. They are incorrect.

The heirs will be the upper-middle-class bureaucrats who staff the nonprofit foundations."

George Rebane

fish 919am - your comment is a bit confusing. I can't figure out who said what, where, and when. Perhaps a bit of annotation and italics would help. If you so repost, I'll take down your current effort so as to avoid duplicates. Thanks.

Todd Juvinall

Joe Koyote | 05 October 2015 at 08:27 AM

I'll do a Paul Emery here and say "welcome aboard the Donald Trump campaign" there Joe. That hedge fund issue is part od Trump's fiscal proposals paper.

Jon

"That hedge fund issue is part od Trump's fiscal proposals paper."

Not correct, per Trump's latest, formal tax plan. But meaningless BS anyway.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 05 October 2015 at 09:26 AM

The block quoted excerpt I posted is from a guy I follow online. It addresses the ongoing carping from the Joe(s) Koyote of the world who somehow think that those who have far more influence in this world are going to let themselves be taxed into poverty by the true believers on the left! My sole editorial input was to bold the paragraph that I thought would be most relevant to his 8:27am complaint.

George Rebane

fish 1006am - Thanks for the clarification. The use of or harping on the Pareto distribution in the copied piece is more than a bit confusing. Since the Pareto maps into the Lorenz curve from which the widely cited Gini indexes of wealth and income distributions are computed for various countries, it would be better for reader to forget about Pareto and go directly to the Gini graphic that is readily understandable. I did a detailed tutorial presentation of it some time ago since it comes up often in 'inequality debates'.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/03/our-new-course-is-declared.html

Here is a Gini Index/Coefficient listing for countries compiled by the CIA -
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html

re JoeK's 827am - Have any of our progressive readers suggested what is the "fair share of taxes" that those they consider rich should pay? Have Bernie or Hillary or Lizzy stepped out there and quoted any of those figures? And I'm talking about the total share of federal income that these greedy sumbiches should pay.

Bill  Tozer

150,000 tax payers pay 45% of the total income tax in CA. That means one big hit to the market and there goes billions the CA Franchise Tax Board and the Gov count on for such programs as Laura's Law among numerous others. The greedy innovators already pay 13% CA State Income Tax rates, not to mention business and residential property taxes and, of course, Federal Income Taxes.
The way things are going here in the Golden State, that temporary tax increase on CA 1%ers which is set to sunset soon will be miracacously extended, just like that temp sales tax increase passed way back when to rebuild bridges after the Oakland Earthquake. Wonder what the libs' definition of "temporary" is.

The best we can hope for is that none of those 150,000 filers leave CA and do not retire. Maybe we should pay them to stay here or poison them to grab some inheritance tax money as a one time shot to build more low income housing. Read the average home in the Santuary City by the Bay is over a million clamshells, up 18% in just one year. That is bad for the poor and depressed. Pay the rich to stay here or the State will go under well before Climate Change finishes the job.

Jon

Gallup Poll today- Obama Job Approval/Disapproval- 48/48. UNBELIEVABLE approval numbers for last year in office!

Hey Paul, can you ever remember better numbers this late in a Presidency, in the last 50 years? Never.

Just where is all that toted mass of anger and tidal wave of momentum to sweep in a GOP President? LOL.

Todd Juvinall

With the everyday love-fest of the lamestream media and their hiding Obama's part in any bad news, Adolph would have as good a number. When Bush was the Prez it was an everyday bash of him. Remember when the press would post the day's casualties of the wars? Seen any of that with Obama? Nope. So I give the media and these polling companies no mind.

Jon

Sure Todd. Or perhaps the country heartily supports a guy who stands up for common sense gun control and concern about humans causing catastrophic warming.

Bet you the GOP strategists give those polls some mind.

Bill  Tozer

Wonder what the Screeching Squaw has to say about hedge funds. Seems she ain't walking the talk. Same ole same ole from the Left.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425063/elizabeth-warren-think-tank-billionaire-conflict-of-interest

Who cares about the half Arab's poll numbers? Just a distraction from all important stuff. Waste of time gabbing about Zero's numbers on October 4, 2015, IMHO. But, this is the Sandbox where topics of interest to anyone are submitted.

Jon

"Who cares about the half Arab's poll numbers?"

Every political academic versed in Presidential election history. Its been proven to be one of the top predictors for the upcoming National election.

Bill  Tozer

Jon might just disagree with this as he is in a fiesta mood this early afternoon.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/737517453048961/?type=3&theater

Wonder what the other Squeeching Sqaw has to say.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/737561343044572/?type=3&theater

Bill  Tozer

Well, the gun battle continues to rage over on the Obama Lip post. Take heart, we are not alone. Other blogs are shooting it out as well. The Great Divide is not unique to us here in the Berkley of the Foothills.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/737537696380270/?type=3&permPage=1

Walt

Nice post there Bill. That's one buttsore LIB. As usual,, that's how they react to a factual statement.

Walt

"O" just doesn't know when to stay away. Now he's headed for Roseburg.
From what I hear, he isn't going to get the reception he hopes for.
His presents isn't wanted.

Jon

"From what I hear, he isn't going to get the reception he hopes for.
His presents isn't wanted." Walt, the Sage.

You heard of something that hasn't happened yet? Wow Walt, that's a real gift.
Oh, and I don't think he's taking any presents with him to hand out to folks in Douglas County. Just compassion for the victims and families.

Bill  Tozer

Sure Jon, that's right. Darn, I just got to say you are one smart feller. So, no cameras and no 11 teleprompters, right? They take up a lot of cargo space anyway.

This is what will happen in Douglas County tonight. Maybe you with cable might catch a glimpse of Jeff Ackerman in the background. Boy, that would get someone over the Rainbow so mad he will spew over here for a day or two.

Picture repost: Tonight's or tomorrow's address:
https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/736643053136401/?type=3&theater

Walt

Not staying with the news curve "jon"? Obutthead has announced his arival for Fri.
Yaa.. Criticize MY spelling. Blame it on my outcome based LIB mandated education.
Compassion my ass. Since when does he speak out about Whites getting killed? But the killer was half Black. the folks up there are PRO 2ND Amendment. They have already publicly stated they want MORE armed citizens, not less, and more BS "gun control".
I know people in that town. They don't like the gun grabbers.

Account Deleted

"Just compassion for the victims and families."
As he mentions himself a couple of hundred times.
Did Obama's kids get their brains splattered on a wall? Of course not. He makes sure they are NOT in a 'gun free' zone. But jon and Frisch can't figure it out.
I'd rather have a president that shows up at a school to pin a medal on the folks that shot dead the jerk that tried to kill people.
jon likes a pres that shows up after his failure to protect innocents to make political points and talk about himself.

Walt

"O" grabbed the microphone before the bodies were even counted. Can't let a good crisis go to waste.
So some twerp gets pissed off at the world because he was a virgin, and no girl will have him, and this was his answer to the problem. And the LIBS cry "there outta be a law!"

We gotta get the guns out of the hands of LIBS!!! As everyone knows, "Liberalism is a mental disorder."

Account Deleted

Oops - missed this one.
from Joe-the-K
"Perhaps if the wall street mavens and hedge fund goons paid their fair share of income taxes like everybody else, there wouldn't be a problem."
OK joe. what is the deficit amount?
joe: "duh - I dunno"
who are these 'goons' and how much do they make and how much do they already pay in taxes?
joe: "duh - I dunno"
What plan do you propose that will increase taxes on these 'goons' that will allow them to still live in the state and yet raise enough to pay off the projected deficit?
joe: - "duh - what?"

Jon

"Since when does he speak out about Whites getting killed?" Walt

Walt, that's taking ignorance to a whole new level. Even at your high standards.

Jon

And on another note in ClownCarVille, the likely future speaker proves he's not the brightest bulb in Congress. Ever heard this guy speak? OMG....GW Bush and Rick Perry sound like members of the Harvard Debating Society.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kevin-mccarthy-hillary-clinton-benghazi_5612e53ae4b022a4ce5f1a6a

Walt

OK smart guy,, when has he? Only when he can push the anti gun crap.
Let's see.. He pipes up when Black thugs earn a dirt nap, when a Muslim kid puts together a bomb timer,(No,,, he didn't build that. Radio shack did.)
Trash talks cops when they do their jobs.
So... Find the news of his trip yet? Yup,, I "have a real gift".. reading the written word.

LOL!! Now you pull a Paul and change the subject. Poor Hillary.. Those mean old men are picking on her.
So WTF if it's "political"? All's fair in politics. It was fine for Dirty Harry to slander Mitt on the Sen. floor to screw up his Presidential run.
I don't recall Mitt doing anything underhanded that killed people, then lied about it.
(but Hillary did)

Jon

What did Hillary do Walt? Enlighten me please.

Walt

She lied. Private server. Got a guy thrown in jail for something he didn't do.
Mishandled top secret info., others have been jailed for less on.
But you don't give a rats ass about all that.

Maybe you missed it. She has legal council that has advised her to lawyer up. The shit is about to hit the fan.
http://nypost.com/2015/10/03/hillary-clintons-legal-adviser-warns-her-time-to-lawyer-up/

Naaaaaaa.... She didn't do anything wrong according to the great legal scholar "jon".

Steven Frisch

When my legal council came to my aria I had the presents of mind to listen!

Walt

Then this just happens to show up.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/05/book-three-shocking-new-interviews-reveal-hillary-doing-foundation-work-in-office/
Naaa,,, Progs will feel that was fine too.

Walt

This little ol' lady tells it like it is!
And she owns a gun store!!!
DAMN!! I bet she could neuter "jon" at 25 yards at a dead run.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/05/roseburgs-gun-store-grandma-shuts-executive-anus-obamas-gun-control-narrative/

Bill  Tozer

Oh Walt, nothing to see hear.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/labor-unions-giving-serious-thought-to-endorsing-trump/article/2573359

Had another conservation in person with a lady that graduated back when with a degree in Feminist Literature Studies. I told her over the bar-b-q last night grilling meat some of The Donald's quotes, from "you got an innie or an outie, you figure it out" to "Rosy McDonald has a dog face." She said that is so practical, so common sense, and Rosie has really trashed The Donald terribly in the past."
She replied that people are so sick of being lied to that "WE have had enough" after showing her that The Donald as even peeled away a few Black Women." Even though she does not think he will get elected, she seemed devilishly delighted someone is after too many year is finally saying it." She can overlook the Megan Kelly blood thing and had no objection to The Donald calling Rosie an ugly fat dog, just as long as it is one-offs and not all the time. Amazing. Let's hear it for all the ladies who graduated from the CA University System will degrees in Feminist Literature. Three cheers for the ladies!!

httphttp://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/02/polling-convergence-oangravis-and-reuters-show-donald-trump-surging-with-34-35-support/://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/02/polling-convergence-oangravis-and-reuters-show-donald-trump-surging-with-34-35-support/

fish

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 05 October 2015 at 09:29 AM

"By the way, I love the way you always paint your critics as intellectually deficient.

vs.

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 05 October 2015 at 08:09 PM

When my legal council came to my aria I had the presents of mind to listen

That is some first rate hypocrisy.....well done!

Bill  Tozer

fish @ 8:56 pm
They act that way when they realize they have been skating on thin ice. Makes them feel less self assured against us knuckle dragging bullies. They really start to show their filed down fangs when their believe system meets resistance. We all should be sent to Devil's Island for reeducation. Or, remain in our seats and remain silent.
Afterawhile, it seems weird when they don't respond (react) in such a manner. Predicable. "What?, you talking to me? You talking to me?" Guess us Neanderthals just don't know our place. Pisses them off when the peasants get uppity. Makes then bite their tongue as long as their little wiggly childish emotions allows them to behave, which is less than an hour..
Hey, you sweet libholes with superior intellects, you are idiots. Major nincompoops.

Jon

fish, you aren't as quick witted as you think. Thanks for showing that to us tonight.

Bill  Tozer

Us, jon? What, you and your imaginary friend? Us, like Stevie isn't any Wonder or Barney the Purple Dinasour? Boy, your A-team is batting a thousand.

Sandbox time: The Obama Economic Plan explained. If people would only do what they should be going, life would be great, eh jon. Wonder what those in the know feel about all those PSAs under the theme "Feed the Pig". So encouraging us the save is bad for "not enough consuming going on" crowd. Ah, the ole shop til you drop just ain't cutting it. There otta be a law.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/people-werent-supposed-saving-much-190950809.html

fish

Posted by: Jon | 05 October 2015 at 09:48 PM


Ah jon...I have described myself as a "mid wit" on more than one occasion here at RR.

What's your excuse?

Jon

fish, the problem with you is that things tend to fly very high over your head. A troubling pattern for a "mid wit". Downgrade may be in the works.

Jon

Tozer 10pm, that's a very interesting article. Not sure the point you're trying to make on a sharp-contrast political blog like this, but an interesting article nonetheless. While I'm a pretty balanced saver/investor, I know more than a few progressives who have no debt, decided to put all disposal income toward paying their mortgage, park money in a bank gaining ZERO interest, and have no interest in learning about some prudent alternatives. Big, big money types I come across in my line of work tend to like to spend money for show, and amazingly seem to fall for the Trump BS, the "greed is good", no new taxes thing.

Don Bessee

Great retort the 'jon', another in you own mind moment. Sounds like the same ol same ol just with frischy being wasted again. LOL

Bill  Tozer

Jon, that's all you got? My, at least you are consistent with your wine o'thirty posting. Can set your clocks to Jon's nightly "night caps". Yo, jon, it's better to be a mid-wit than a 1/4 wit. Of course it would take two of you (us) to make a half wit. Think about that tomorrow when you stagger out of the ozone again. And it's only Monday night. This is shaping up to be a fun week.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=heK8QjhWGag

Jonnie, I have just one question for you. Are you the Princess or the Bull Dike in your "us" relationship? Don't matter to me which one you are. Just like to address you properly, Lola.

Jon

"Sounds like the same ol same ol just with frischy being wasted again. LOL"

Translation please. Don, whats your drink of choice tonight?

Tozer, I have no idea what you are ranting about. I gave you sincere kudos for linking a timely article to point out the beneficiaries of the zero percent Fed policies (big money real estate and hedge fund types- ie. GOP voters).

Bill  Tozer

Sorry about that Jon. Didn't see your nice gentlemanly economic post until after I raked you over the coals. Oh, I hate it when you pick on Walt and funny Fish with that tone in your voice. It makes me feel sad.
Sometimes you sound just like some arrogant bastard doing the giggling "heeheeheeheehee" at the end. At least the FUE dropped the teehee awhile back, not the other stuff. Guess even he reads my ignored posts. Pity pot time.. So, taunt away. I will take it all with kind response (for a little while) in recompense for mean me biting your extended hand of good will. That's not how A good Conversative rolls. I am a bad example, but enough about me.
Big teacher's union backed Hillary. Not big in size (300,000 members, but with the American Federation of Teachers speak, the rest take their cue. Which is good news. Those dollars going to the multimillionaire Hillary instead of Uncle Joe. Darn, Jon, looks like you just might be stuck with Hillary. Hillary does not let go of anything without claw marks on it. So sorry....about you gal Rodham, the true Bull Dike. And sorry for calling you a 1/4 wit. Besides, I be blazing on LSD-25 right now looking at a pic of Hillary, Nancy, Ruth Baner Ginsberg sitting in a Korean bath. You really know how to pick them.

fish

Posted by: Jon | 05 October 2015 at 10:09 PM

fish, the problem with you is that things tend to fly very high over your head. A troubling pattern for a "mid wit". Downgrade may be in the works.


Why the hostility jon.......it's like you're channeling your inner jeffy.

fish

I hate html.

Bill  Tozer

Hugs and kisses sleepyhead Jon. A nice peace offering to wake up to when you have finally slept it off:

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/pb.235086849974878.-2207520000.1444143152./559731380843755/?type=3&theater

Bill  Tozer

Ah, a study of human behavior. Some of us don't handle change effortlessly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/world/europe/plastic-bag-charge-england.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-0&action=click&contentCollection=Energy%20%26%20Environment%20&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article

Bill  Tozer

Yo left wingers, far left hardcore extremists, anarchists, left of purple types, progressives, liberals, socialists, and pinkos. You better get your Hillary Tee-shirts on as all your eggs are stuck in one basket. A fate worse than a slow dead. Take heart. Hillary passed out 750 tee shirts at a recent rally. Maybe you will find one on the side of the road. Libs do litter more than the average bear.
You don't have to love her like a lot of you loved Billy Bob Clunton. You don't even have to like her, albeit you could try harder to warm up to her. Just send money and send it soon. She will need your help. A vote or dollar for Clinton is a vote or dollar for Chelsea's Foundation. Sucks to be you.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/05/krauthammer-oreilly-factor-only-two-ways-hillary-clinton-wont-win-democratic-nomination

fish

Ooooh!! Hot "democrat on democrat" action in the political theater!


NY MAG: CLINTON READIES OPPO-RESEARCH TO 'GO TO WAR' AGAINST BIDEN...


I'm all a tingle!

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/10/clinton-readies-oppo-research-against-biden.html

Todd Juvinall

Just like Gore in 1988 using the "race" card with Willie Horton.

And Biden in 2008 calling Obama "a nice cleancut negro"

And her attacks on Obama,

the Clinton's are "amoral"

Jon

Todd,
Your first line about Gore is a LIE, perpetuated by the Bush Team to deflect criticism of their own racist strategy. It worked like a charm- racists voted for Bush en masse after that BS.

Al Gore never mentioned Willie Horton, nor used any ads about Willie Horton, during the 88 camnpaign.

So while there's political infighting aplenty, lets not pass along outright lies. Thanks.

fish

WOW! Kinda puts my "President Hollow Chocolate Bunny" reference to Barry in a different light!


Ivy League professor: Award Carson 'coon of the year'


To vaporously paraphrase a certain former Union editor......and to imagine this person teaches in the Ivy League! My Stars!!


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ivy-league-professor-award-carson-coon-of-the-year/article/2573507

Todd Juvinall

But fish, the professor babe was a black. Nothing to see here, move along. And I see the denial of Gore using Willie Horton against Dukakis again. Amazing ignoramus!

George Boardman

That reminds me of the headline on a story about Clarence Thomas in Emerge, a black magazine: "Uncle Thomas: Lawn Jockey of the Radical Right."

Jon

Need citation please on where Al Gore specifically mentioned/used Willie Horton against Dukakis. I can give a hint: none exists. This is long debunked myth of the right. The record will show that Al Gore did question Dukakis at a debate about his parole/prisoner policies. He had no idea who Willie Horton was until Lee Atwater took charge for the GOP for the General Election.

George Rebane

I draw your kind attention to the 6oct15 update of 'Obama shoots from the lip ...'.

Steven Frisch

Citation? We don't need no stinking' citations!

Todd Juvinall

Do your own research you troll.

Steven Frisch

No, Please, Todd show us your citations from Newsman, Breitbart and the World Net daily!

Jon

"Do your own research you troll".

I did, we did, thousands have done so over many years. Nothing exists about Al Gore and Willie Horton. So, perhaps a simple apology will suffice for falsely passing on a long-debunked myth of the right. I'm sure just a simple oversight on your part- but sympathize with anyone trying to keep all the BS straight from Red State, Daily Caller, WND, Breitbart and Newsmax.

Thanks.

fish

Posted by: Jon | 06 October 2015 at 04:24 PM


jon let me just say that the "vaguely smug political guy" persona is so much more appealing than the "at the end of a long chardy bender and chili fry fueled Pelline like self pity session while issuing badly mumbled " Downgrade may be in the works." threats" persona.

Just thought I'd do a guy a solid!

fish

How to get trolled by the Russians!

"That just went out the window - Russia is now openly mocking Riyadh, Doha, and Washington and as if the following weren’t brazen enough as it stands, note that it emanates from the UAE... "

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-06/russian-embassy-trolls-saudi-arabia-twitter


Is it just me or is the outcome of every single foreign policy decision by this president similar to outcome of that of a retarded child in a room full of hand grenades?

Todd Juvinall

Jon | 06 October 2015 at 04:24 PM

Gore said it all. I watched the debates. I would suggest you go back and watch them. All proved. You are simply a lazy ass liberal without any brains there "jon" the troll. What a hoot!

Oh you said "we did" who is we, Pelline, Frisch any other numskull you call pal?

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 06 October 2015 at 04:50 PM


I watched the dates too!

The incident in question occurred during the 1988 New York Democratic Primary debate when Al Gore asked Michael Dukakis if he supported the Massachusetts furlough program that allowed convicted felons to go home on some weekends even though some of those people had committed violent crimes. Al Gore never mentioned Willie Horton, and since he never mentioned Horton he of course never mentioned that he was black.

Jon is correct and Todd is incorrect.

Jon

"You are simply a lazy ass liberal without any brains there "jon" the troll".

Steve, I guess that's merely Todd's way of apologizing :) Double-down, triple-down when nailed on facts. Sadly never progressing mentally past the 5th grade. Mr. Kesti is so spot on with his assessment of this cat.

Todd Juvinall

Frisch you never watched them. You are not a believable person. You prove that here every time you post your bogus information.

I am correct, Al Gore said and not George H. You and "jon" should get a room.

Quoting Kesti is quite the reach. What a hoot.

Steven Frisch

Todd look it up . Yu are 100% full of shit.

Gregory

Gore unmistakably referred to the Horton case in a primary debate with Dukakis but did not use the Horton name or likeness, just the situation of a criminal given a couple days off from prison and committing a horrible crime with Dukakis' approval. Atwater took it from there,

Jon

ie, no racist imagery or to obtain racial effect. Exactly what we said Gregory.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Jon | 06 October 2015 at 06:58 PM

Yes exactly what you said Jon, so you are correct and Todd is incorrect, which I am sure he will now politely acknowledge.

Gregory

I don't care what you said, and those claiming racist imagery are essentially saying its racist to use the likeness of a horrible criminal in a political hit piece... if they're visually threatening... and black. Had Horton been white... Jon and Stevie would be good with it.

That's racist. What they're pissed about was how well it worked.

Jon

"Had Horton been white... Jon and Stevie would be good with it." Greg

??? No idea what that means...but your logic is amusing, to say the least.

The fact remains that a former NC Supervisor is either a certified moron or certified clown. What's your pick, Greg?

Todd Juvinall

Of course these two libs call it racist. Gore took Dukakis to task for allowing murderers out on holiday. So really, I am right as Gore made the claim and it was then refined by others. Frisch is an idiot as usual. "jon" is just a troll.

Todd Juvinall

What is fascinating about the Willie Horton episodes is this. The "furlough" program in place in Massachusetts experienced the horrific escape, murder and rape by Horton and was a well known case at the time. Soon after there was the debate where Gore brought it all up. And Dukakis said the "furloughs" were now no-more because the Horton case was so horrific the state;s newspapers were taking it on. So, if the two idiot libs can't put two and two together (forgetting the Horton story prior to the debate) then of course there is no hope for them Frisch and his pal "jon" have no deductive skills or understanding. Typical of liberals.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/1999/11/did_gore_hatch_horton.html

Steven Frisch

"That's racist. What they're pissed about was how well it worked."

Posted by: Gregory | 06 October 2015 at 07:11 PM

Hey moron I never said anything about the ads run by Bush, I said that Jon was correct that Gore did not run the Horton ads.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 06 October 2015 at 07:20 PM

From the Slate article Todd posted; "Gore never mentioned that Horton was black; indeed, he never mentioned Horton by name."


Well, I think it is clear, Todd is a total fucking clown. How hard is it Todd as a 65 year old man to learn this simple words, "I was wrong"?

The furlough program was not a Dukakis program, it was put in place by Dukakis' predecessor, Republican Governor Francis Sargent.

Todd Juvinall

Steven Frisch | 06 October 2015 at 08:31 PM

Uh Oh, that Steve Frisch sure has a potty mouth. He of course has no skills in deduction as I pointed out. Just another liberal without a brain.

Todd Juvinall

I put that link in to see what deductive skills Fricsh and "jon" have. Looks like none. Idiots. What a hoot!

Don Bessee

Here is a little something for the selective racists in the collectivist cricket corps to ignore. Don't see our hypersensitive lefties denouncing the UPenn prof. who said 'give Ben Carson the coon of the year award'.

Jon

Good to see Todd quadruple-down on his obvious error. Not man enough to admit you're wrong, eh?

Run Todd Run, Supervisor 2016!

Don Bessee

Another reality check for the Frischies of the world. Eastern correctional facility debate team beat the Harvard debate team, reigning US champs who were also the 2014 world champs. Max security type felons. Topic the convicts advocated for was that public schools should be able to turn away children of illegal aliens. Do tell. So much for the citations gambit. LOL ;-)

Todd Juvinall

Why do the libnuts here fail to put two and two together. My goodness, they are truly stupid apparently.

Bill  Tozer

Well, with a name like Willy and in the slammer, anyone would have a 50/50 chance of guessing Willy Horton might be a black dude. Now, that Roseberg shooter was a hard one to guess. I figured that someone taking art classes with a hyphenated last name had to be a lib chick with hairy armpits. Who would have guessed she was a he and a black dude to boot. I sure guessed wrong on the Oregon murderer, past tense of course. Think Jon was guessing a white Christian boy. We both got it wrong. Both Willy and the she/he could have avoided their fates if they just got laid before breaking the law. Relieves the pressure and take the steam out of the savage beast.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/pb.217926015008110.-2207520000.1444194876./734137680053605/?type=3&theater

Don Bessee

Troll check, yup CCC in full effect after 90 minutes with the trolls who monitor every post speaking volumes with their silence. Not even an evasion. Very dark lord of liberal lament landish of them. LOL

Bill  Tozer

Todd @ 10:28 pm
"libnuts fail to put two and two together". Come on Todd, that is not fair. Have them start with putting one and one together. Remember who you are talking to and cut them some slack. It ain't their fault and it is not nice to make fun of those afflicted with the libnut disease/disorder/syndrome, aka, the broken thinker complex.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/pb.217926015008110.-2207520000.1444194876./734137680053605/?type=3&theater

In other news which illustrates my point about libnuts with the broken thinker complex:

http://patriotpost.us/cartoons/22502

Bill  Tozer

Hey, don't them elitists saving the world from war and hunger get diplomatic immunity or something? It's not like gobbling up other people's money is considered wrong anymore.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/07/us-usa-crime-macau-idUSKCN0S01CG20151007

Ben Emery

Pensions seem to falter when the younger workers aren't paying into the program since there are fewer and fewer union members. Not paying full pensions is theft and failure to uphold a contract. Labor was performed under agreed conditions and at the end of the day Employers didn't uphold their end of the agreement, it is theft.

Ben Emery

Please disregard last comment, time I don't have this morning is needed to correct it.

Steven Frisch


Posted by: Don Bessee | 06 October 2015 at 09:29 PM
Posted by: Don Bessee | 06 October 2015 at 10:43 PM

I seem to have missed the party last night. It's clear from the irrelevance to the topics being discussed and the incoherence of the messages that it was a doozy. don seems to have started slurring his speech at abut 8 pm.

But we do know one thing, Todd's idyllic upbringing as a son of Nevada County with good old 'American values' did not teach him to admit when he is wrong and move on. It is almost as though CARLY! is Todd in drag.

Todd Juvinall

Steve Frisch, step away from the vodka. You are once again showing your ignorance based on a odd lifestyle and upbringing.

Steven Frisch

I can see Todd in drag this Halloween as CARLY! stomping his foot and saying, "I'm right, I'm right!"

Joe Koyote

Actually the Massachusetts furlough program began in 1972 under a Republican Governor, Frank Sargent. Thirty-eight other states have similar programs. The "willie horton" ad was created by an independent PAC and ran only once generating significant bad press for Dukakis despite the fact that he had nothing to do with the program's institution. The "revolving door ad" was a spin off from the horton ad and was created and distributed by the RNC at he direction of now Fox News chief Roger Ailes (also the producer of the failed Rush Limbaugh TV show.) Very nasty but typical off the attack politics of the right based on half-truths and/or outright lies (Swift boat veterans comes to mind) put out by supposedly independent (from the official candidate and party PACs) PACs.

fish

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 07 October 2015 at 08:49 AM


Interesting. I see Pelline as this....

http://images.fandango.com/images/fandangoblog/LeguizamoSpawn725F.jpg

....stomping his foot and saying, "I'm right, I'm right!"


I'll trade you some of mine for some of yours.....maybe we'll see different things?!


Todd Juvinall

Frisch, step away from the ballet tutu. Put down the bottle. You are an embarrassment.

Jon

Steve, as you knows- even Lee Atwater as he was dying APOLOGIZED for the race baiting, horrific, unfair tactics he employed against GOP opponents.
Yet Todd is either (A)- a sincerely sad moron, or (B)- thinks its manly, just and the Christian Way (wink wink) to say moronic things such as-the GHWB campaign did not run Willie Horton ads.

Village Idiot personified. Will be fun to gauge his reaction after Heidi Hall's victory.

Jon

Looks as if the loose cannon Ben Carson has jumped the shark as well. Cross him off from the Presidency. His loony comments will surely continue. Todd style.

So down to Marco and Carly! as GOP possibles as of now, barring a miracle.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/ben-carson-explains-oregon-shooting-comment-214502

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