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18 January 2016

Comments

Russ Steele

Culture and religion are twisted threads on a single spool. These are both very emotional issues not easily resolved in logical discussions. Emotions often overcome logic, and the only remaining recourse becomes a physical conflict. It has been that way for 1,000s of years, and little is going to change except for the lethality of our weapons.

jon smith

I live in a rural section of western Nevada County where parcels run from ten to 120 acres. Many of these parcels have neither power, water or habitation. A few of these parcels have large greenhouses or Visqueen tents where pot is grown. The parcel next to mine is owned by a retired couple in their early 70's and they grow 4-5 marijuana plants in their very large vegetable garden. I don't ask why they grow it and would never have known they did unless they showed them to me. Nevada County starts at nearly the valley floor, runs over the Sierra and bumps into the state of Nevada. I find it wildly ludicrous that one single law can affect every person and every parcel in this widely diverse county and that law say you cannot grow a single marijuana plant in your garden - even if the state says it is legal. Mission creep is hardly the word for Royal's action, his is a premeditated act of governance to smother the entire county with his singular world view and prejudice. The word that describes this type of governance is fascism. If it isn't please provide another.

George Rebane

re RussS 152pm - Culture, in the sense used on RR (see Glossary), subsumes religion as one of its attributes along with, say, language, traditions, values, behavioral norms,...

jonS 200pm - I'm not sure how the definitions of "prejudice" and "fascism" jibe with Sheriff Royal's MJ ordnance proposal to the BoS. He is an elected official with a long history of contending with the MJ issue which has disposed him to a certain set of beliefs in how the county should deal with it. He cannot pass ordnances nor generate regulations, but has to take his case to the Supervisors who can. This is what he did in an open public forum; hardly what would be considered as either practicing fascism or pre-judging an MJ policy.

jon smith

GR 13:52
In the strictest sense you are correct, yet this sheriff has been personally lobbying the supervisors to pass his ordinance since early December. The vote was pre destined due to his persistant urging. Not one supervisor's mind was changed when they attended the "open public forum". During the forum Mr Miller told the audience if they didn't like the outcome of the BOS meeting they could overturn it by a vote on the June ballot (pre written, but unreleased for review). As it turned out the measure was nowhere near to matching the implied words of Mr. Miller or Mr Royal.

Account Deleted

"a premeditated act of governance to smother the entire county with his singular world view and prejudice." Substitute country for county.
The fed govt does this all day long every day of the week.
Those of us that are against it are called fascist by the left.
Go figure.

George Rebane

jons 314pm - I'm also confused about the June initiative which, whatever its outcome, is not supposed affect what the emergency ordnance prescribes. Can you shed light on that?

Barry Pruett

Thank you George. Very thought provoking.

jon smith

Miller said the voters could overturn the board's action via a ballot written by the County (but not released until the meeting).
The comparison between the board's action and the actual ballot are here (scroll down four paragraphs):

http://yubanet.com/regional/Marijuana-Cultivation-Measure-will-not-reverse-outdoor-growing-ban-even-if-voters-reject-it.php#.Vp2e8zajnEs

George Rebane

jons 630pm - At a meeting with an ASA principal last week I was advised that the ballot measure is intended to mollify the voters, but regardless of that vote the current emergency measure is essentially bulletproof. Your cited YubaNet analysis seems to confirm that understanding.

Don Blanscet

When Nancy Pelosi shoved obamacare down our throats , she said "we have to pass it to read it" We conservatives including myself railed at this irresponsible form of legislation.
Now it appears (read George Boardmans col. in the Union) that our own conservatives are doing exactly what we claim to find offensive. Passing legislation without reading or understanding. See union article re: confusion re: ballot measure. I predict the Tea Party of Nevada County will silently agree with Sheriff Royal and the BOS. They will not speak against that which they dislike when us conservatives use those same tactics to further our goals. (do it to Suzy but not me?)Tea Party hypocrites are no different than Black lives Matter hypocrites, just another shade of hypocrisy . Pun intended.
72,000 dollars for an election?! why don't we spend more time on consensus and less time on oppression??

Bill Tozer

Oh, Mr. Blanscet. Blaming the Tea Party for a local law enforcement issue you disagree with? Perhaps your anger should be directed at the BOS, who voted 4-1 for the emergency ordinance. 4-1 (to be repetitious).
FYI, I remain neutral and thus silent on the issue. Rather than throwing stones, I will wait until the clarification in Feburary and the yet to see seen Ballot Measure in its final draft. Besides, it's the wrong time of year to be planting pot outside. Interesting issue and sure to draw various opinions.

If I was apt to blame someone or group of persons at this developing stage, I would be inclined to blame those many who were growing Marihuana for purposes other than medical uses. The old "one bad apple" thang. In this specific issue, it appears that there is a whole barrel of bad apples who are growing the annual for intents other than medicinal compassion. Exciting times, my troubled brother. Wait and see.
My name is Bill Tozer and I endorse this message.

Gary Smith

Dr. Rebane - One of your best articles. The MJ culture clash here in Nevada County is right on the mark. The BOS (Board of Supervisors) is very conservative and reflects the will of the voters, not the people. Just look at our voter registration. Republican 35%, Dem 32%, Decline to State 24%, only 80% of eligible voters registered. The right conservatives are very organized and the left progressives are not. To the victor goes the spoils. The ballot measure is just to give political cover to the BOS. I don't understand why the think they need political cover? The ballot language and impartial analysis will be written by County Counsel who is an At Will employee that can be fired any BOS meeting by 3 Supervisors. You can bet that she has gotten direction. The timing is important also. The pro MJ group will not have time to gather signatures for their own ballot measure in June, by design. The outdoor ban could have been passed a long time ago but that would have given the pro MJ group time to gather sigs for their own competing ballot measure in June. I love it when the subject is local issues.

Paul Emery

It is ironic that the so called Conservatives are using civil code (mj cultivation ban) as a hammer to enhance their self perceived cultural majority. I'm not sure where the Tea Paty stands onthis.

George Boardman

Jeffy seems to have a problem with some of the statistics I used in the column. The same numbers didn't concern him when I used them several months ago, and this is a guy who apparently has nothing better to do on Sunday night than comb through my column as soon as it appears on TheUnion.com.

Perhaps he should tend to his own garden. He writes in a recent post that his "magazine" is "distributed throughout Northern California." Really? Where can I find it in Yreka or Crescent City? He claims to have qualms about growing marijuana outdoors, but has no problem promoting America's favorite drug on the cover of his "magazine."

Then there's Tesla's gigafactory in Nevada, which Jeffy has been touting as a stimulus for eastern Nevada County. The Reno Gazette Journal reports the factory is generating a lot fewer jobs than Elon Musk promised.

LOL, as they say.

George Rebane

PaulE 934am - Interesting. What means, other than legal, should "so called Conservatives", libertarians, progressives, liberals, socialists, ... use to "enhance" or promote their "self perceived cultural majority"? To my knowledge no such cohort has sworn off using the law per se to promote their aims.

Upon reflection, are you (like so many leftists) implying that somehow groups that argue for smaller government should then not appeal to government in the course of their political affairs?

GeorgeB 948am - Mr Boardman, I've heard that spillover stimulus notion argued before, but can't quite see how it works for Nevada County in any measurable way? Why come up the hill to spend your dollars on the high-tax side of the border?? Any insight about what's on the minds of people like the FUE? Or is it another example of bad luck when they try to think?

jon smith

GR 9:43
Judging by the "rush hour" traffic between Reno and Truckee, there are quite a few workers in the Silver state who choose to live in the Golden state. When Clear Capital moved from Truckee to Reno, the feared exodus of Truckee employees failed to materialize. For many years the bulk of my work was in Nevada but it never crossed my mind to actually live there (unless, I could afford to live in Incline Village). Don't under estimate the lifestyle quotient, particularly for upper level employees of Tesla who can afford the commute, but would suffer the most from a higher tax rate. Will this be an appreciable number? I don't know.

George Rebane

jons 1038am - Point well taken. My interest is in the marginal contribution from Tesla employees. It is no secret that having a big city like Reno across the border from Truckee will allow some workers who like the high altitude life style to live in CA; that has been going on for years. One can also argue for a similar benefit provided by Las Vegas, however much smaller because CA is a bleak desert within commuting distance of the city, explaining why no community has grown and blossomed on our side of the border.

Paul Emery

George

What the so called Conservatives are actually doing is denying economic opportunity for Nevada County families who could peruse legal enterprise as Cannabis cultivators under the new State guidelines. To deny economic opportunity doesn't sound like a "Conservative" value to me. They are the ones complaining about government regulations that hamper free enterprise. The results are profoundly ironic.

Are you are proposing such action as a justifiable tactic to preserve Conservative values? It doesn't matter what the"libs" do. Values are what they are and should not be justified by claiming "they did it first".

Bill Tozer

Excuse me if I am wrong, but don't each one of us have the right to address grievances in a court of law? Heard an interesting take on the US Constitution. Beyond the phrase "We the people" there is no mention of individual rights per se. The document lays out government's rights (and prohibitions) given to it by we the people. Those are government rights mentioned and after that it's none of their business and they are not to tread there. It up to the States, but we all know that. Still, an interesting take, but off topic again.

Our State put medicinal marihuana enforcement policies and even the right to ban cultivation in any municipality with local control. Our local control is with the BOS. Remember when Yuba County was praised on local blogs for its generous and lax interpretation of the grow your own law? I recall people quoting real estate agents that Nevada County was doomed and Yuba County was attracting large volumes of people and money looking to buy up land. Well, we all know last year that Yuba County all of a sudden banned outdoor cultivation. Sucks to be you if you went down across the county line to buy parcels with sugar plums and dreams of riches in your eyes.
Too much blaming going on.
I get it. When folks get angry, they need something to blame. Blame conservatives till the cows come home if it makes you feel better. Blame the NIMBYs as well. Blame, blame , blame won't change a thing. Be proactive. If you do not get regress in a court of law, change the law. Heck, most growers are practicing civil disobedience anyway. Stomp your feet or change the law. It took MADD 20 years, but drunk drivers are no long given a slap on the wrist and a ride home. It takes time.
Whatz da hurry? Word has it that the "medicinal" marihuana market is flooded and nobody can find buyers or a fair price this month.. Just wait until the Big Boys get their way. Tobacco companies already bought up trademark names like Panama Red, Accupolco(?) Gold, Hawaiian, Maudi Wowie, etc 25 years ago! The Big Boys will kill the local market ASAP.
In CO, small growers can sell (with a very strict limited amount of permits) up to 20 plants a year. Wow. That is quite generous, is it not? Live off that (and food stamps). The Big Boys get the vast amount of the licenses and very very few are allowed for small greenhouses...mostly granted when there is a temporary shortage of product..
Blame away. I still remain neutral all in all, but be careful what you wish for. When a State wide Prop comes up on the ballot, remember the Big Boys have very deep pockets and can fly in 20 lawyers from Chicago, Philly, and New York at a snap on the fingers, 24/7.
Blame helps one who is depressed. Blame will get ya out of your depression....with more anger, lol.

fish

Posted by: George Boardman | 19 January 2016 at 09:48 AM


jeffpelline says:

January 19, 2016 at 9:55 am

This is all George can say before resorting to personal attacks: “Jeffy seems to have a problem with some of the statistics I used in the column. The same numbers didn’t concern him when I used them several months ago.”

Instead, he ought to be apologizing for the mistake and running a correction. Will The Union run a correction for him? You can’t fix stupid.


George there may be an opportunity to benefit from Mr. Pellines editing skills. If it indeed turns out that you are in error, might I suggest just "Memory Holing" your boo boo like he does.

George Boardman

Re Dr. R at 10:08:

I'm inclined to agree with Jon Smith; the commute might make sense for people earning six figures, but it doesn't pencil out for workers farther down the food chain.

It's at least 35 minutes from central Truckee to downtown Reno, and that's speeding in good weather. The round trip from Truckee to Tesla has to be at least 2 hours under optimum conditions.

Tesla didn't decide the build in Nevada just because it got a big taxpayer giveaway and cheap land; it also gets to pay Nevada wages. I can't see anybody commuting from the Tahoe area for that kind of money.

jon smith

GB 10:08
"the ROUND TRIP ... 2 hours"

That would seem like a dream to Bay Area commuters. Cruise along the Truckee River for an hour to get to work or spend 90 to 120 minutes (ONE WAY) stuck in bumper to bumper traffic??

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/03/05/san-francisco-bay-area-nations-capital-for-megacommuting

Bill Tozer

paul Emery @ 10:58 in the am:
Paul, did you actually pen this or was it someone hijacking your name? Maybe you walked away from your computer leaving it unlocked.

"Values are what they are and should not be justified by claiming "they did it first".". Please excuse my shock after hearing your "Bush did it first" on any and all topics concerning the current state of affairs.

Your argument about the local economy has merit, though. Many people will be hurt by the prospect of losing supplemental income or even a person's livelihood. But, this is a very big but, when things do not go your way you act if as the fix is in. The BOS could have just as easily vote 1-4 against as 4-1 for.

Ok, Paul, how many people are denied economic opportunity derived SOLELY from selling MEDICINAL ONLY hoochie hoochie. Grow it indoors and make sure it is only for medicinal purposes as prescribed by a licensed physician. That is the State Law as I understand it. States Rights and all that stuff. Correct me if I am wrong, but it is still illegal to shout Fire! In a movie theater. Something to do with State Law. Until someone challenges their free speech rights in a court of law, the law remains.
Economic impact felt? No shit, we agree. Is it only for medicinal purposes? Hardly.

Paul Emery

Bill

Please correct me if I'm wrong but can you show me where I said the "Fix is IN"? Please quote me directly if you find it. While you're at it show me one time the BOS voted against anything the Sheriff asked for. Never in my recollection.

drivebyposter

GR @ 10:56 AM

Don't forget state income taxes on residency.

jon smith

Bill 10:58.
Our BOS should be coming up with proactive regulations instead of reactive ones to anticipate an evolving future. See the link to the medical cannabis cultivation page on the California Department of Food and Agriculture. https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/is/mccp/ This is near boilerplate to what Colorado and Washington had in place before voters approved recreational use ("hoochie hoochie" in your words). As with these two states, if voters approve the hochie hoochie ballot in November, the Department of Ag will sandpaper the current wording to reflect reacreational use (without doubt it has already been written). Shouldn't Nevada County be positioned to optimize this change? We have thousands of ag zoned acres here in a micro climate that has proven to be ideal for the cultivation of mj/hemp. I'm not talking about growing weed in a lot along Broad Street anymore than I would advocate raising beef there. This is why we have zoning ordinances. Folks who live in town have made by far and away the most noise about the stench of mj and other issues (and I believe rightfully so). Should these in town dwellers dictate how the rural ag community works? Royal has painted the entire county with a single brush making it as illegal to grow a single pot plant in the middle of 160 acres as it is to grow one downtown next to a school.

Bill Tozer

Oh Paul, I said you act like the fix is in. I did not say you actually uttered the fix is in, just you act like it as evidenced by your "show me one time the BOS voted against anything the Sheriff asked for." But, I will not belabor your reading skills at this time, except to say "read the black on the page, not the white." No worries, I have done the same..hundreds of times.

Keith Royal laid out his argument plainly. "There's too much violatin' going on and we can't keep up. Let's tone it down to get a compliance handle on this." That was the main argument he used, not environmental damage or the economy. Strictly a view from the guy who has to investigate every complaint that comes in from citizens. He is closer to the stink than the BOS. The BOS would be amiss not to consider his view
on how it is working or not working, what's going good, what's going bad out there in the hinder lands.
Do not mistake my view of the facts revealed so far as either pro or con. Yes, I do lean towards law and order, especially as I grow nearer to the grave. GOD=God orderly direction. Sure, I still like to stick it to Da Man...that part of me will never go away. But, look at the facts objectively and let's have a good orderly direction in an chaotic world. There are many laws I don't like, put are there for a reason. Like stop signs. "You ain't the boss of me, you aren't my dad, you can't tell me what to do!!" Well, if you dance with LE at noon, you will be late for supper.
I do understand your disappointment though. You have lost the battle for now, but will probably win the war. That is much better than us Redskinned savages who won a bunch of battles but lost the war.

Michael R. Kesti

Bill Tozer 19Jan16 11:08 AM

I realize that this is tangential to your point but I find this notion of "government's rights" to be novel and curious. I was taught and have long agreed that the Constitution specifies the federal government's structure, roles, responsibilities, and limitations but nothing of which I am aware concerning its rights.

Or have I discovered another gap in my knowledge?

Paul Emery

Jon

Well spoken.

Bill Tozer

Jon smith. Hey, I smoke the hoochie hoochie myself on occasion. I went 25 years between tokes and now am a "pot head". More like a weekend warrior. I have an religious exception, but in my case it's a religious inclusion, lol. They don't call it the peace pipe for nuthin'.. And I don't smoke the hoochie hoochie annual plant for my sore neck. I also live in a growers area, albeit I don't grow or buy the stuff. That's a lie. I grew 4 plants last year and they were closer than 400 feet from the house. Me bad, but I needed to separate them from my vegetable garden for fear of those darn tomatoes worms. Plus, since I have entered my semi-retirement years, I been staying home working on thinning the back forty, fixing the deck, building rock walls and rock gardens, and fixing the dirt road...by hand.
Next year I ain't growing any, mainly cause I just did it to see if I still had the green thumb after all these years. In addition, I don't know who I could even give away the stuff to. Tossed half in the burn pile. I have no connections here and I like it that way. I don't run in those circles no more, no way.
The smallest parcel around here is 10 acres and there are not too many that small. So, I guess because it does not affect me, because I see nothing, smell nothing, have no traffic problems, I am being most self centered. Heck, if I want pot a neighbor down the way will give me a couple of OZs anytime in exchange for a little chainsaw work. I don't even want a fireplace myself anymore.. I am done cutting, bucking, splitting, and stacking firewood. I like propane, God's gas. But, I digressed again and have not inhaled for a few days, lol. It's a lot better than in the old days where an OZ was measured by two fingers against a baggie, complete with them seeds and stems.
Guess what I am saying is that some in that business can't BS a Bullshitter like me. So recreational is coming??
You made a good point to look over the horizon and prepare (position) ourselves for what is definitely coming down the pike. Count me out, but do your own thing. I will be growing tomatoes and maybe buying a llama just for kicks after I buy enough fencing..
Carry on with the good fight. It's a non-issue to me all in all. I can Bogart that joint all I want, if I want, when I want. I be a good citizen now. :)

Bill Tozer

Michael, I found the point interesting. Not to say I will stake my exemplary reputation on one man's POV. He just turned it inside out of the way we see and say things about rights. As mentioned, his POV is we the people say to government here is your rights. That's it. We give you these rights to carry out we the people's business. If not stated then government does not have anymore rights than what we the people laid out.

As a side issue, think it was Madison (or maybe Hamilton) who was vehemently opposed to the Bill of Rights. He figured that since they were so self-explanatory that even making a list of we the people's rights would open the door for government to think that was all the rights we as individuals possessed or try to limit the Bill of Rights to what was written.. So, turn it inside out and say we the people give the Federal government these exact listed rights and no more. Interesting take, IMHO.

Bill Tozer

Paul Emery. I feel your pain. Perhaps I should be more understanding and gentler with you in the future. I know you are one of the good guys. I'll try to be nicer, but.......:

https://www.facebook.com/whitetrash/photos/a.188741497845827.54526.188734351179875/1001805049872797/?type=3&theater

George Boardman

Re Fish at 11:15 a.m.:

No need to "memory hole" anything; the figures I used were on the high end of Ms. Keene's range to illustrate the potential source of tax revenue. The numbers are only "wrong" because I used them.

Jon Smith at 11:32 a.m.:

I lived in the Bay Area for 55 years and I'm quite familiar with commuting to work there. One of the reasons people move up here is to avoid wasting two hours a day commuting to and from work.

Gregory

The weak minded confuse Powers granted to governments by the people with Rights, and confuse the Rights of the people with entitlements.

If the hard left treated the 2nd like they treat the Commerce Clause, they'd give a fully automatic M16 to any adult who hasn't already purchased one.

Recreational mota will be a reality in the USA when persecutors can't reliably get 12 on a jury to convict. That's what led to recreational ethanol back towards its historic place in society. hic.

In the mean time, those who want to make money growing pot should be happy with the ban on outdoor grows... that should keep the price up and the competition down, if you can manage to not be among the ones that get busted. Legalizing will mean the return on investment, including one's time and sweat, will be about what the Bierwagens have managed in the apple trade. Maybe less, as coddling moths don't seem to like cannabis.

Brad C.

So, just to confirm, is the county saying that permitted greenhouses are acceptable for growing MJ? Greenhouses are commonly used to grow many ag crops.

jon smith

Brad 15:06

Without coming out and stating it, the resolution (and ballot measure) specifically prohibit green houses. Under county code greenhouses are "not-permitted structures and exempt from permitting".

New ordinance, E5. "Indoor Marijuana Cultivation is prohibited in non-permitted structures, structures that are exempt from permitting, . . ."

Quite the coincidence that that phrase shows up in both the ordinance and existing code. Months of planning went into the "urgency" ordinance, yet the voters only got to see the ballot measure the day of the BOS meeting.

jon smith

To paraphrase Orwell, "The people of this state are free to choose. they can choose the black pot, or the pot that is black."

Paul Emery

George

Since you are on record as supporting the legalization of Recreational Marijuana in California and elsewhere what is your view as to whether nevada County residents should be allowed to be part of the marketplace as providers for both the recreational and medical markets that will need product to sell and distribute?

George Rebane

PaulE 541pm - Good question. I support local control of how both MMJ and RMJ should be produced, distributed, and consumed in Nevada County. Let either the voters or their elected representatives decide in a manner that allows the rules to be set and modified as the people's desires and proclivities change. Let's see what works that the people want. (This would be pretty much the same as with zoning and ordinances.)

Don Bessee

Keep counting your chickens PE. The voters all across CA have in the last 2 years voted for my side of the issue in every instance. You guys keep telling each other its inevitable, we shall see won't we. ;-)

Brad C.

Jon, thanks. Looking at Sec. G-IV 5.4 Nuisance Declared; Cultivation Restrictions, item I at the bottom of page 9, it states,

1. Accessory Structures used for the Cultivation of Marijuana shall meet all of the following criteria:
The accessory structure, regardless of size, shall be legally constructed in accordance with all applicable
development permits and entitlements including, but not limited to, grading, building, structural, electrical,
mechanical and plumbing permits approved by applicable federal, state and local authorities prior to the
commencement of any Cultivation activity. The conversion of any existing accessory structure, or portion
thereof, for Cultivation shall be subject to these same permit requirements and must be inspected for
compliance by the applicable federal, state and local authorities prior to commencement of any Cultivation
activity.
2. The accessory structure shall not be built or placed within any setback as required by the Nevada County
Land Use and Development Code or approved development permit or entitlement.
3. The accessory structure shall be equipped with permanently installed and permitted electricity, and shall not
be served by temporary extension cords. Electrical wiring conductors shall be sized based on the currently
adopted California Electrical Code with anticipated loads identified.
4. The accessory structure shall be equipped with a permanently installed and permitted odor control filtration
and ventilation system adequate to prevent any odor, humidity, or mold problem within the structure, on the
Parcel, or on adjacent Parcels.
5. If the accessory structure is a greenhouse, the panels shall be of glass or polycarbonate and should be
opaque for security and visual screening purposes. Where the greenhouse panels are not obscure, the
greenhouse shall be screened from view by a solid Fence.

https://secure.mynevadacounty.com/nc/bos/cob/docs/Board%20of%20Supervisors%20Ordinances/2016%20BOS%20Ordinances/2405.pdf

To me it sounds like you can use a greenhouse if it is constructed using standard building practices, and is approved by the building department. You cannot use plastic sheeting for a cover. You have to use glass or rigid polycarbonate or other translucent material.

Bill Tozer

Are concrete bunkers considered greenhouses?

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/779836878817018/?type=3&theater

Sorry, I could not resist. Carry on. ....

Paul Emery

George

I'm pretty much in agreement with your 5:41. The argument, a valid one, that was used against measure S was that all regulations were written in stone and can only be modified from another ballot measure. the same argument can be used against the Supes proposed one which has the same language. The Supes if they understood the craft of government should be striving for a compromised solution that tends to most of the complaints and still leaves room for legal commercial MJ cultivation. The problem is that the Supes used a club that will make the problems worse because it will be unenforceable leaving no incentive to play by the rules therefore attracting the wrong kind of element.

jon smith

Brad 1/19/16
Thank you for the head's up. It appears the definition of green house in the general code (Exempt from permitted) is in conflict with the definition of greenhouse in the ordinance. Looks like someone is going to have to spend a prohibitive amount of money and effort to grow their 12 bonzai plants. And at the same time sign away their right to the search and seizure laws that protect regular Americans.

Brad C.

Jon, yes, having to construct a somewhat secure enclosure to grow a few MMJ plants for personal consumption just got more complicated and expensive. In light of the fact that California might legalize MJ, having this greenhouse regulation in place will keep the cultivation industry (at least in Nevada County) on more of a boutique scale vs. industrial scale MJ orchards. A more secure greenhouse will tend to keep people "honest" and discourage bored teenagers and low life tweakers from ripping off plants and protect grower's investments in time and money.

It would be preferable, economically, for the county to be more friendly towards MJ growers, manufacturers, distributers, and retailers. Making too many laws that are too oppressive send the wrong message to prospective business owners. Aren't overbearing restrictive regulations a reason often given by businesses leaving California for "greener" pastures?

Don't know why the county comes off as being so tyrannical, authoritarian, and repressive when being more compassionate, democratic, and considerate might garner more widespread support. Where was the discussion with the community and why was this ordinance just rammed up the county's collective arse? Maybe some sensitivity training is called for.

How about some community involvement in "growing" neighborhoods? Perhaps a neighborhood MJ watch by MJ growers themselves to help limit greedhead growers and their poor land stewardship practices from over-planting, over-fertilization and the poisoning our wildlife and streams.

An outright ban on growing marijuana would only bring back a resurgence of guerrilla farms in the forests. It has been illegal "forever". How has that worked out? The war against MJ is over. MJ won. Get over it. Would somebody please just come up with a strain that doesn't smell like a dead skunk?

Don Blanscet

Where have I "blamed" (your words not mine) the Tea Party? I simply predicted that the Tea Party will sit silent as Legislative tactics we (note the we) abhor (not reading and understanding) are used against a faction we don't like. I criticized the Tea Party I did not blame the tea party. Nor did I for that matter state a preference for either side of the issue. Realize it is your blog however accuracy is important. Once again I predict the Tea Party faction (us) will sit silent as tactics we are supposed to oppose are used against our fellow citizens. Red hypocrisy is as offensive as blue hypocris

72,000 dollars for an election?! why don't we spend more time on consensus and less time on oppression??

George Rebane

DonB 740am - FYI, busy blogs like RR have long 'comment streams' that support several concurrent 'comment threads' with different participants on divers topics. When you don't start your comment with a referent or addressee, then no one knows who you are addressing or what the conversation is about. And few readers will care to scroll up and start doing research to discover who you are talking to, so give 'em a break por favor.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 20 January 2016 at 08:29 AM


...that support several concurrent 'comment threads' with different participants on divers topics.


George I for one would welcome a thread on topics important to divers! ;-)

Don Blanscet

George
Point taken. "accuracy is important."

George Rebane

fish 846am - Apologies, am showing my age and old school upbringing.

For the interested reader 'divers' refers to multiples or more than one in counting things, while 'diverse' refers to different kinds of things. Its a distinction often overlooked as modern English loses its information carrying capacity in the age of expanding dumbth.

Paul Emery

Well spoken Don. There is no reason the BOS can't craft an ordinance that takes care of most of the complaints and still opens the door for small farmers to engage in the lawful cultivation of Cannabis under the new State guidelines. The ballot measure will likely fail anyway so why not pull it now and get to work building a consensus supported ordinance.

Patricia Smith

I agree that the fair thing is to put the ban up for a vote by the people, however, the duplicity by the County has riled many citizens, liberals and conservatives alike. Once Pascale discovered that a NO vote didn't overturn the ban, scores of non-users have contacted us to say they are upset that the County isn't giving the people a true choice. In fact, the idea of a ban is a false choice. Does anyone really believe a ban will magically get rid of all (or any) of the MJ grown in NC?

Let's face it, chances that we can vote down the ban are slim so why did the County feel they had to stack the deck in their favor? Shouldn't a matter this important to the health of so many patients and our local economy be discussed along with all the problems caused by irresponsible pot growers? Did the County present ANY solutions to the preceived problems other than a total outdoor ban? Did they consider the licensing options allowed under the new State regs (MMRSA)? Did they allow the opposition a chance to show the benefits of permits over a ban? No they did not.

This is a bad solution to a bad problem.

Bill Tozer

Good words, Patricia Smith. I think is it all about the bad apples. Teenagers growing at their weak spinned Momma's house in a neighborhood on small lots, out of towners (like the Mong Mafia growing up to the road without a fence or setbacks after clear cutting (raping) property), hundreds of young folks on crazy money and food stamps growing like there is no tomorrow, etc, etc, etc. The bad apples.
I always felt the bad apples are not just a few, but probably 40-50% of our local yokel unemployed growers. And nobody touches the "medicinal only growing" issue, just like last time around. How can someone growing for only medicinal purposes (compassion) be lumped in with the argument of restrictions hurting the local economy? No, don't go there, Bill. Just like last time, Patty.
I just want a honest starting point. Yes, we hear of some poor woman who lost her job or husband and the mean ole Sheriffs cut down her 120 plant garden, none of it intended for compassion, all of it intended to line her pockets. Those mean LE running amok, harassing Granny (akin to the TSA confiscating her knitting needles at the airport) and then mean LE has the audacity to enforce an unfair law!! And those helicopters are scaring my chickens and make me feel apprehension. We need safe places and trigger warnings.
Fuck those lowlives, cry me a river. The medicinal compassionate marihuana advocates...er... growers for profit never gave me an honest starting point. And I don't hold you, Patty, accountable for those who gave your side a bad name.
So, with that all water under the bridge, the real conversation is growing weed for profit. At least Paul and others have never waived from the profit issue from day one. He did not wrap this all under the dishonest guise of "compassion" like most growers have done, which is my way of praising Paul. And you are a true advocate for compassion, Ms. Smith. But it ain't about medicinal herb, never was and it ain't now. It's all about lining pockets. Well. For some it was about getting high without the paranoid. Some bad apples even line their pockets and then stiff the trimmigrants, ROFLMAO.
That's all. Rant over. Water under the bridge by now. If you wanna grow, do it in the right place and BE a good quiet respectful neighbor. I did last year with my little 4 plants, legally. I went down the hill, plunked down 90 smackers, and listened to a non-smoking lecture (cigs, tobacco) for 15 minutes and walked out with a script. My illness? Well, my bed is uncomfortable and I have COPD, lol. What a bullshit racket.
So, play the game. My quest for having an honest conservation is like pissing into a headwind. I do respect you, Ms. Smith. You have been an honest focused advocate for the suffering. The rest of them can lick the sweat off my scrotum...bunch of liars they are. If you do not have a place to grow hoochie hoochie, then don't. Simple enough to me, so complicated to others. It all depends on location, location, location.

Paul Emery

Bill

That's yesterdays news. It's a whole new ballgame with the new State regulations that track each plant from he time it is in the ground to the time it is sold at a dispensary. All other grows will be illegal and up to those we hire to enforce the law to deal with.

The likely coming of recreational pot is a totally different matter and production will be regulated in some yet to be determined manner. I say let's give our responsible growers the opportunity of growing legally in accordance with the new State laws. All illegal grows will be up to law enforcement to enforce.

Walt

" the new State regulations that track each plant from he time it is in the ground to the time it is sold at a dispensary. All other grows will be illegal and up to those we hire to enforce the law to deal with."

As it should be. But I remember your stance on that. ( NO documentation of growers)

Now to the real up and coming issue. "if" and when weed is legalized.
Employing the stoned. Will the "safe workplace" (drug free)laws be repealed?
Will insurance Co.s be barred from insisting on drug testing?
Even today, a script for MMJ won't get you around that.

Paul Emery

The problem with documentation of growers is that the Feds demanded Mendocino Supes hand over their records of registered growers. That was before the Obama Admin instigated a hands off policy for growers in compliance with their State regs.
There is a little issue called self-incrimination to be taken into consideration.

Walt

Tough cookies Paul. Even the State's new regs call for that.
From the growers, to the dispensaries, to the "delivery guy". ALL are (will be) required to
be "documented".
Besides. LIBS like you LOVE rules and regs. What makes dope growers special? (The ability to rake in huge, untaxed money.)

Patricia Smith

The new state regs allow for-profit businesses to be taxed and reglated like all other businesses. It is high time (pun intended) that MMJ is treated like every other business. Yes the regs are strict and not everybody will be able to follow them, but it will start phasing out the bad apples as more people come into compliance.

This is for Bill T: Yes, many people exploited the law that only allowed one to be reimbursed for their time and expenses before the new law did away with the ambiguity and flat out allows profit. It's time this industry was taxed like all other businesses. If a licensed operator doesn't follow the rules, their permit can be yanked which would effectivly shut them down faster than imposing an unenforcable ban.

Bill Tozer

Paul, as I was comprising my rant, I kept thinking of you and Brother Ben. I used to get so irrated with the Emery Brethen because if we were to discuss, say, Michael Brown, BB would jump in and shout "Hold yer horses. We have to discuss 400 years of slavery and have a friggin history lesson of how the Native Americans were treated" before anyone could say, "I see there is a video clip of Michael Brown pushing people while stealing from a market." Nope, we cannot move on until we discuss the 2/3 (or is it 3/4 human?) thang written in the Constitution. Every darn topic, every darn time.
And Mr. Paul, how many 100s of times have you wanted to rehash the Bush Wars each time the topic is Islamic terrorists or the Syrian Army or Syrian Rebels near the Turkish/Kurd border today. Every time!!!
Now you say it's yesterday's news concerning the existing medicinal pot regs? Thank goodness. Now we can move on. But....but.....but...I just had to rehash this Medical Marihuana Issue, state my disgust with you pack of liars and the scumbag den of thieves at least ONE time before moving on. Unless we need a history lesson about hemp ropes used on schooner ships gliding down the Chesapeake Bay before getting to today's topic.
Forgive my indulgence. I have been playing a lot of pot meet kettle lately. Hey, we all are hypocrites, except Ms. Smith and Jon Smith, and Mr. Smith who went to Washington. And our host, Dr. Rebane, despite what the libbowels think and say.
Smoke em if got em. There's gold in them thar hills....gold the color of money.

Don Bessee

Pattie Smith, its finally looking like you may have actually backed an electoral winner in the Dem primaries with your Bernie Sanders Socialist election efforts. Madam liar liar pantsuits on fire is crashing in the polls because of the young strong ladies who had no clue of her rape victim disrespects and 'bimbo' attacks when Bill Clinton was her philandering meal ticket. ;-)

Paul Emery

Walt

"Libs like me" (2:26) Really Walt, what Republican are you going to vote for? I'm 100% for Gary Johnson, Libertarian Candidate and two time Governor of New Mexico.

George

You sure bailed on this conversation before it even got interesting. This "culture" question had a lot of legs left for intelligent thought.

Paul Emery

Don

If Bill Clinton could run for president today he would win in a landslide.

Todd Juvinall

Yeah Paul, he could have a underage girl on each arm and a framed copy of his blue dress stain.

drivebyposter

"If Bill Clinton could run for president today he would win in a landslide."
P.Emery

Probably true. It shows how little a candidate's personal life matters, regardless of the amount of opposition research done, if they look good on TV and give the voter a warm feeling inside. To be fair, Clinton's lifestyle was certainly no worse than LBJ's or JFK's if their biographers are to be believed. Poor life choices might cause your tepid backers to flee (100% of John Edward's constituency it seems), but your hardcore backers will vote a corpse into office.

You can argue that the more power that the executive branch receives (in the interest of efficiency of course) the more unstable the whole system becomes. It's mere scale implies a super-sized system of spoils, and it's policy direction becomes more a matter of how the Great Leader feels that morning.

Bill Tozer

Just reread Dr. Rebane's commentary. Very good. Culture clashes and self preservation. Yep, some are fighting to keep things the way they are, some fighting to change the way things are. Nothing new under the sun.
Like that old song "'Cause he's an old hippie. And he don't know what to do. Should he hang on to the old. Should he grab on to the new."

Talking about marihuana and self preservation, how about I lighten this cultural clash up for a few moments. Must have been some good stuff, man. Self preservation at its finest.

http://wtf.videosift.com/wtf/video/Admitted-weed-traffickers-get-high-paranoid-and-call-911
Carry on. These drug culture battles are getting tiresome, IMHO.

George Rebane

PaulE 1126pm - "bailed"??! I made my points in this post, and am not aware of any unanswered questions put to me. This comment stream has been most interesting and lively. However, I haven't seen much interest in the culture clash aspect of my argument, the details of the ordnance and June initiative seem to dominate.

John

Paul Emery 1/21/16 @12:07. If you get to bring your ineligible candidate to the election, we get to bring ours. In a Bill Clinton vs Ronald Regan scenario, Regan would easily win a third term.

Paul Emery

George

The discussion about whether the orchestrated opposition to legal MJ cultivation because it is part of a Culture clash makes sense to me. It should be looked at as a tremendous economic opportunity for our County which it is. Opposition seems to be led by retired "we got ours" types rather than the business community which obviously appreciates the potential for prosperity for our residents. Some time I'll take you for a walk through NC and we can ta;k to business owners who are pissed off by what happened because they know how much business comes their way from the Cultivation community.

Russ Steele

. . . the [illegal] Cultivation community?

Steve O'Herlihy

As many are blogging now, the cultural conflict in Nevada County is about the good-ole-boys finding ways to keep progressives at bay to buy time until somebody like Trump can get elected to turn back the clock to the values and belief systems of the 1950s.

Any electoral issue that is fear-based, that retards the progressives, will be seized upon by conservatives to rally the fear-based voters living disproportionately behind the gated, (and paranoid) electoral strongholds of Lake of the Pines, Lake Wildwood and the wanna-be gated community of Alta Sierra.

These conservative areas will turn out for the highly political sheriff, and the well-organized conservative junta he represents -- as long as he can instill enough fear in gullible voters and ill-informed throw-back (to another era) supervisors.

That is what the 'presentation' was about in the first part of the last Board of Supervisors meeting. It was a dog-and-pony show orchestrated by the Sheriff to stoke a climate of fear. The supervisors, already predisposed towards an outcome were offered political cover to do what they wanted to do, anyway. And, in doing so, they showed a complete lack of faith that state regulations will eventually make any difference. Instead, the opted (as usual) for the iron fist.

The sheriff's other ace in the hole is the fact that progressives are unorganized, and tend to not vote whereas his proto-fascist backers (Tea Party, State of Jefferson and Republican Federated Women) are highly organized (to a fault) and do tend to vote. The proof would be in the fear-mongering saturation radio-ads funded by Republican Women Federated during their effective campaign against measure S.

Trust me, these ladies will be back to support their champion – the highly political Sheriff that routinely attends their meetings. Republican women are the electoral practitioners competent to win elections, as we have seen.

Anybody contemplating electoral action counter to their will is in for a very rough ride.

Russ Steele

Steve O'Herlihy | 21 January 2016 at 09:23 PM

Someone named Don Nelson wrote a very similar comment on Jeff P's blog, Some of the sentences in your post are identical to ones made by Don. Are you Don Nelson, or have you plagiarized Don Nelson?

Quite frankly, I like Don Nelson's ending better then yours:

The sheriff’s other ace in the hole is the fact that progressives are unorganized and tend to not vote whereas his proto-fascist backers are highly organized and do vote. I am talking here mostly about the Republican Federated Women that paid for all the hysteric anti measure S ads a year ago. Trust me, they will be back to support their Sheriff. They are the electoral practitioners competent to win elections as we have seen.

You fight them and you will be handed your ass.

Paul Emery

Russ

Everything I refer to as to the future of cultivation in Nevada County would be legal and in accordance with the new state laws. Would there be illegal grows? Sure and it would be the job of law enforcement to root them out.

RE: Bill 4:46
The illegal market for MJ was created because it was made illegal and there was lots of profit to be made catering to the demand of product. Basic Capitalism. It should have never been illegal in the first place but all sides made billions off the illegality. Just like Prohibition. A cooperative government making laws that can't be enforced to enhance the riches of those who are willing to take the risk with just rewards and a law enforcement-incarceration complex thriving on taxpayers money to enforce and penalize those few that get caught. Basic Libertarian principals applied here would clean up the mess in no time. .

Michael R. Kesti

Paul Emery 21Jan16 10:29 PM

Very well put, Paul.

Bill Tozer

Paul and Mr. Kesti: I agree with this line from Paul's 10:29 pm last night:

"..... those few that get caught." Now we are talking my language. It's not a game for amateurs. Too many amateurs out there. Embarrassing.

Gregory

Oh, my:

"As many are blogging now, the cultural conflict in Nevada County is about the good-ole-boys finding ways to keep progressives at bay to buy time until somebody like Trump can get elected to turn back the clock to the values and belief systems of the 1950s.

Any electoral issue that is fear-based, that retards the progressives, will be seized upon by conservatives to rally the fear-based voters living disproportionately behind the gated, (and paranoid) electoral strongholds of Lake of the Pines, Lake Wildwood and the wanna-be gated community of Alta Sierra."

Yet another fear-based sock-puppet rant... there's a conservative hiding in your closet who pines for the '50's. Personally, I'd be happy with 2000 and will settle for 2016 but I'm not a conservative. Pot should be legal, but many of the grower set are unsavories who are net negatives for the area... illegal, lucrative activities tend not to attract the best and brightest.

Gregory

Our grammar Nazi is falling down on the job... Paul, that should have read "Basic libertarian principles", but no, the forces of prohibition are not about creating illegal profits... Pot prohibitionists look very much like gun prohibitionists... it's bad, we're saving you from your own bad choices and the community will be better off when you finally get with the program.

Michael R. Kesti

Gregory 22Jan16 06:59 AM

Good catch, Gregory.

Bill Tozer

I propose we start with pot free zones around our one institution of higher learning, Sierra College. Opps, include the massage schools and dirt/crystal worshipping schools as well, albeit they, unlike Sierra College, are private entities. Ah, screw the private entities. Turn them into pot free zones as well. It's a start. And include trigger warnings for any one in earshot if marihuana pros and cons are debated in the public square. We must not have any one offended. That would be micro aggressions, which is hostile, bigoted, and plum not neighborly.....not to mention reeking of White Priviledge.

Ok, it you must discuss legalization, CA State Business Regs micromanagement with a 300 watt interrogation light bulb up your collective asses, and taxing the crap out of the safer than whiskey hoochie hoochie annual flower plant, then please do so in the designated free speech zone located in the far corner of the Eric Rood Center behind the Wayne C Brown Correctional Facility. The Madeline H library is not a free speech zone so don't even think of pulling a fast one there, you fear Mongols, you. We must think of others and their sensibilities. Stoners are soooo self centered and must be taught how to get along with others. (I learned that by rubbing elbows with the control freaks in academia).

George Rebane

PaulE 719pm - Paul, I think you are defending a hill that I have never assaulted nor plant to.

Bill Tozer

"Nor plant to".....a slip of the tongue there, D. Rebane? :).

Todd Juvinall

Never having done illegal or mind altering drugs and seeing the devastation they have done to the weak minded people of the planet, I guess I just can't understand why people would rather have a toke of THC than a Big A's cheeseburger. I will always believe that MJ is a gateway drug that leads to worse things and that it makes people's brain a mushpot of simple gray cells. I worry that country could be way more productive and much richer for all if people were not so weak in self control on this crap. So it appears I am a anti-drug extremist.

And in my opinion anyone selling this poison to our youth should be tried and executed in the public square.

fish

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 22 January 2016 at 08:59 AM

I guess I just can't understand why people would rather have a toke of THC than a Big A's cheeseburger.


Toke first Todd....cheeseburger after!

Patricia Smith

Todd, Big A cheeseburgers do more to turn your brain (and body) into mush than marijuana ever will. Explains a lot. Your gateway premise does not hold up. According to the CDC, less than 1%
of marijuana users become addicted to hard drugs. The overabuse of painkillers by medical doctors are causing the spreading epidemic of opiod addicts in this country. States that have legalized MMJ see 25% fewer overdose deaths. Coincidence?

Bill Tozer

Well, it looks like we are not alone. You have been "recriminalized". Boy, some are feeling like Rodney Dangerfield lately. Good thing I remain neutral...stoned, but neutral. :)

http://news.yahoo.com/california-marijuana-growers-face-crop-153141599.html

Gregory

"Divers" in a sentence: "Ze longer I liff here, divers it gets".

Ms. Smith, with the lopsided vote on S, I'm not sure the 'opposition' has any political capital with the BOS. Elections have consequences.

Walt

WOW Patty,, I guess you didn't think that comment though. What's a stoned toker going to crave after a few good bong hits? Sure not carrot sticks.(unless smothered in ranch dressing) Nothing is more appealing than the biggest burger in town. Then they drive under the influence of dope to do it.(an illegal act as well) Yup, even from the apartments just up the hill. (what a buzzkill to make the walk) Gotta watch out for those with a script for MMJ, because it helps with that toenail fungus.
Nope,, stoners are not the most health conscious individuals.

Patricia Smith

Walt, i said I didn't like Big A cheeseburgers, but they aren't the healthiest food out there!

Gregory, Jan 23, 2:54 Yup, elections do have consequences. I don't hold out much hope that the voters will overturn the ban. I would have to surrend my title of Patron Saint of Lost Causes.

Walt

Uhhhh,,, NOoooo,,, that's NOT what you said.
This is.
"Big A cheeseburgers do more to turn your brain (and body) into mush than marijuana ever will."

So it it the weed talk'n?

BTW. Speaking for myself, and working no where near home I lived off fast food for lunch going on 20+ years. It hasn't killed me yet. Nor inflicted brain damage.

Funny.. I felt surprisingly better after quitting the use of weed. Even my back issues
got a little better.

Bill Tozer

Well, if Trump wins the election and you all move to Canada, be sure to look this guy up.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/01/judge-sentence-ruling-growing-plants/#

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