March of the Mini-minded Millennials (updated 20feb16)

George Rebane

[This is the addended and linked transcript of my regular KVMR commentary broadcast on 17 February 2016.]

In this election year the millennials are going to make their mark, and both parties are doing their best to woo them.  Why?  The simple reason is their numbers; but that’s not the whole story.  The US Census Bureau tells us there are 83.1M young adults in the country born between 1982 and 2000 – the so-called millennials.  They now overshadow the previous big cohort of generational voters – the Baby Boomers – who today number only 75.4M (more here).

The millennials are not only the largest voting group, they are also the least knowledgeable to put it politely.  Studies show that they have an embarrassingly deficient knowledge base, especially when it comes to economics and finance.  Their deficits come from having been educated by the now perfected system of unionized public education, honed since Great Society days to produce cadres of voters ready to fundamentally transform America.

The major beneficiary of this national dumbth is the Democrat Party.  Latest polls confirm that 60% of millennials prefer not only the Democrat Party, but of those, 84% prefer the hard left socialism of Bernie Sanders.  These millennials have been taught and now stand convinced that their own deficits and bleak futures are the result of the rich stealing from the poor, the solution to which is more and bigger government – they live in Nottingham and ol’ Bernie is their Robin Hood.  In fact, what they really are doing is inviting the tyranny that will hasten this country’s Great Divide.

The fashioning of this malignant generation – for they now also teach our children - has been the American socialists’ dream since Depression1.  During 1933-39 our country came very close to abandoning the republic our Founders left us.  WW2 interrupted the socialist program that was not resumed in full force until President Johnson’s launch of the Great Society in 1965.  Its social engineering and wealth transfer policies restructured our government schools, and created a permanent poverty class designed to be impermeable to literally any and all subsequent welfare payments – now in the trillions – which have been thrown at it.

And after forty some years, the transformation of our educational system is complete.  It annually now pumps out almost four million young people with marginal skills.  At the same time the black middle class has been thoroughly decimated, leaving a huge cohort of permanently disgruntled voters loyal to any party that promises them “More!” – the same demand that union boss Samuel Gompers once made.  Keeping this block of blacks on an eternal and growing ‘plantation’ has been the Democrats’ objective for decades.  Couple this with the march of the mini-minded millennials, and the progressives have completed the pincer that promises to throttle what remains of our republican democracy.

The only task remaining for the Left is to get them to vote.  The program to encourage millennials to do so is a national effort that reaches down to the local level.  Hereabouts we recently heard from Ms Reinette Senum and Ms Joey Jordan, two strong progressive voices urging millennials not to listen to their elders or study the issues, but to simply get out there and vote for ‘what you want’.  Their message is clear.  There are enough of you millennials out there so that if you speak with one voice, the government will be able to pry loose enough wealth from the 1% to pay off your student loans, provide free healthcare for all, and generate millions of high paying jobs.

There is no need to explain to them how all this will work out or what kind of country we will then have, because their mental machinery is not up to the task of digesting all the details.  Just trust ol’ Bernie as he leads the charge to bring down capitalism and finish the work Obama started.

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on Rebane’s Ruminations where the addended transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and where such issues are debated extensively.  However my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

[Addendum]  A couple of nights ago Jo Ann and I had a busy day of appointments after which we decompressed by watching an old heavily politicized romantic comedy – ‘Holiday’ (1938) starring Cary Grant and Katharine Hepburn.  True to form, it portrayed the society of that day as dominated by an uncaring and rapacious upper class that dismissed their social lessers with self-congratulatory sniffs.  The movie taught its viewers that the rich did nothing – e.g. create businesses and jobs, engage in massive philanthropy, etc – save enjoy themselves while skimming the earnings of the hard-working classes below them.  They lived risk-free luxurious lives guaranteed by insider information investing along with a vast network of the well-heeled and powerful government connections.  The welfare of the little guy was summarily dismissed and didn’t have a chance.  Very little has changed during the intervening decades in how Hollywood wants us to view America, save that now our schools have become the dominant part of the anti-capitalist and anti-entrepreneurial machine of message mongers.

[20feb16 update]  I want the record to show that the millennials' intellectual deficits are beginning to receive the attention of more informed observers who understand their impact on the upcoming election. Today Daniel Arbess writes 'The Young and Economically Clueless' wherein he notes -

These young voters seem not to realize that the economic policies they find so resonant are the least likely to promote the growth and the social mobility they desire. They deserve to be lead from the discredited backwater of equalizing outcomes, (and) forward with policies that instead help eliminate barriers frustrating their access to opportunities. ... Yet millennials, who would most benefit from a real economic recovery, replacing the false one of the past several years, so far seem intent on voting against their interests.

All this flies in the face of Sanders' claptrap about capitalism and enterprise that when swallowed induces terminal stupidity in the young and inexperienced.  Even their business education has been co-opted by progressives as described by recent MBA Matthew Tice ('My Anti-Business Business Education').  The millions of these mini-minded millennials are joined by a cadre of equally clueless progressives (see our local versions in the comments) who actually have fewer excuses for their jaundiced views on liberty and equal opportunity.

 

Comments

[Bill Tozer]

Visual aides:
https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/795858497214856/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/795727657227940/?type=3&theater

http://patriotpost.us/posts/33967

[rl crabb]

Yes, I would agree that the march to socialism is ill-advised, but capitalists are doing a pretty good job of priming the pump of revolution... http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/17/san-francisco-tech-open-letter-i-dont-want-to-see-homeless-riff-raff?CMP=share_btn_fb

[Account Deleted]

Mr Crabb at 7:33 - "...priming the pump of revolution..."
Er, what 'revolution'? Bernie, Hillary, Obama et al are simply calling for more of what the govt has been doing for decades. It doesn't work and yet millions of fools want a lot more of it.
I'll agree putting in the word 'rich' was stupid. The fact is that all folks that live and visit SF shouldn't have to put up with what is going on. You wouldn't let your child poop on the side walk and sleep in the gutter. Why should society put up with those that decide to live that way? I notice the article complains that he offers no 'solution'. The fact is that current conditions in SF concerning the homeless IS the solution the city govt has come up with. There is a compassionate solution to the homeless problem, but for various reasons our society has decided to not implement them. Some are good reasons (conservative and libertarian), and most are just evil (left wing).
I can't begin to fully address the 'homeless' problem here, but the idea that we have one generation after another of clueless, uneducated voters because of the opinions presented in that letter is absurd.

[Gregory]

Here's a map of the homeless in Frisco, using poop reports as a proxy

http://mochimachine.org/web/wasteland/

The biggest pile you of you know what is right where I encountered the first human turd I'd ever seen on a sidewalk about a quarter century ago, on my way to a trade show.

The words we use have power... these folk aren't just homeless, they are, by and large, drug addled bums. Let's save homeless for the folks who need help to get back on their working-class feet whose main short term problem really is shelter.

Frisco tolerates bums and bums like Frisco. No change today, maybe spare change tomorrow.

[rl crabb]

The free market has dictated that San Francisco shall become homeless free, that they may suffer their poverty on the bad side of the bay, or when that becomes the next Gentropolis, anyplace east of Fairfield. The I-80 corridor between Sacto and the bay is already bumper-to-bumper with commuters who can't afford rent west of Dixon. At least they can be grateful for the temporary gas glut. It's just inconceivable to me that all those really smart innovator-invaders can't pool their considerable resources and solve the problem themselves. Why wait around for government?

[Bonnie McGuire]

I've always been amazed by the follower mentality that only believes what it's being told even if it's opposite of what the mentality sees. Anyone who has ever been poor knows it requires all ones time and effort to survive. There's nothing left to give to others. When there's a surplus there's a surplus of time and money there's enough to help others. Hopefully those who receive it understand and appreciate it.

[fish]

Posted by: rl crabb | 18 February 2016 at 10:30 AM

Because it's government that will or won't be issuing the permits to build all those affordable homes for my fellow traffic monkeys! Gregory is right....SF has homeless because it's an easy city in which to be homeless!

[Robert Cross]

George: Did it ever occur to you that the reason you think young people are stupid is simply because you're wrong? They don't agree with your 19th century world view so they must be stupid, right? So you blame the education system, liberalism, unions, and every other straw you can grasp to prop up your lame position that legalized self-agandized greed is good and cooperation (collectivism as you put it) is evil. If your view presented valid solutions one would think that young people would flock to your side, but they aren't. Since, you can't possibly be wrong, they must be stupid/ill informed/ brainwashed/ etc. It is a different world out there that you apparently ignore except to repeat corporate think tank propaganda and, yet, you label those young people who disagree as the "malignant generation." In fact it is you and yours who spread the cancer of divisiveness, not those who have to clean up the mess of the failed corporate system that only serves the wealthy. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Perhaps it is time to step aside and pass the torch to those who have a vested interest in the future not a burning desire to live in the past.

[Gregory]

RL, there is no solution that everyone can agree with at the moment. A negative income tax scheme such as that recommended by Milton Friedman and making those who take the subsidy and still crap on the sidewalk a ward of the state in a halfway house, or the big house if halfway is too much for them to handle, is probably the closest we'll get.

In any case, there is no inherent right to crap on the sidewalk, even on the sanctuary Planet Frisco.

[fish]

Posted by: Robert Cross | 18 February 2016 at 11:09 AM

Slow golf clap.......you worked in all the proglodyte talking points.

[Gregory]

Getting back to George's premise up top, I'd say the young are doing just what the old are doing, acting in their own best interest. The young didn't create the downward spiral of public K-12 competence, they didn't create the upward spiral of the cost of a college education and the number of basketweaving degrees conferred by colleges and universities. The young who are doing by and large what they are taught is the right thing to do can see they're getting screwed.

Bernie is just the latest Pied Piper in a long line of Pipers, while, in California, the Governor is throwing billions of borrowed money down a Bullet train to nowhere hole in order to solve a generally nonexistent global warming catastrophe in a particularly ineffective way.

[Account Deleted]

Mr Cross at 11:09 - "They don't agree with your 19th century world view so they must be stupid, right?"
No sir, they are stupid because they were, for the most part, not well educated. They have limited or no understanding of history, logic, reading comprehension, geography, physics, our system of govt, basic economics... shall I go on? Standardized testing has born this out. Most student test scores nationally have been going downhill since the creation of the useless cabinet post of the Dept of Education.
There are, of course, many reasons for this decline. The main reason is that the left is fully aware that once the children have been indoctrinated, it is a tough slog to ever get them truly educated. Crony capitalists certainly don't want to try marketing to thinking, educated adults and leftist politicians would never get more than a smidgen of votes from an educated population.

[George Rebane]

RobertC 1109am - Mr Cross, did you ever consider expanding your reading horizons? You join the ranks of the liberal unread when you attribute only to me knowledge which is nationally published and in the public record for decades. A more diligent reading of these pages would have informed you of Dept of Education NCES's Longitudinal Survey of Adult Literacy now in its fourth decade, and the very recent survey of millennials by PriceWaterhouse et al (also cited here) that apparently did not make the media outlets you frequent.

See also the right above comments by Messrs Gregory and Obermuller.

[Gregory]

"So you blame the education system, liberalism, unions, and every other straw you can grasp to prop up your lame position that legalized self-agandized [sic] greed is good and cooperation (collectivism as you put it) is evil."-Robert Cross

Cross, the main supplier of certificated K-12 teachers in California is the California State University system. I know a few Marxist math professors in the CSU system who decry the lousy math skills of the future teachers they are expected to prepare. One prof in particular described one class he used to teach, something like 'elementary math teaching methods'... the CSU students entering the class, rather than being taught methods of teaching early grades, were getting remedial math instruction. Entering at the 4th grade level, the prof's job being to get them to the 7th grade level.

Unfortunately, the marxist lovers of mathematics still refused to give a sufficient number of students a passing grade so the class was wrestled away from the math department and into the Education department who were able to bring the pass rate way up. Success for All!

Now we have the brand spanking new Common Core math standards for how to teach math that are EYEdentical to the brand spanking new methods of teaching math tried in California twenty years ago, and failed twenty years ago... only this time they're national in scope and there is nowhere to hide... unless you are the child of someone wealthy who can afford a private school that has not completely lost sight of competence.

It will get worse before it gets better.

[Account Deleted]

Gregory 11:36 - "I'd say the young are doing just what the old are doing, acting in their own best interest."
Sorry old chap - they were adults, signing on to that debt voluntarily. They certainly are a big part of the problem. I'm getting more than a little tired of the old excuse of "I'm stoopid, so I'm not responsible".
There's a great saying about that. Stupid hurts. In this case it's a huge pain in the wallet. Suck it up and pay. The necessary information was available to them that it was a sucker's deal, but they went for it anyway. Most of the students going for the useless degrees know down inside they didn't have the necessary knowledge base or ability to get a STEM degree. Our 2 kids got degrees with out incurring any long term debt and it can still be done today.
The biggest cause for the cost of higher education to exceed inflation is, of course, our wonderful govt.
There are little or no free market forces to constrain the cost of a higher degree. Higher education is now rife with all manner of highly paid minders from the Dept of Correct Thinking and the Thought Police.
Quite a lot of courses and depts could be simply eliminated, and yet those helpless, innocent lil' darlings would be the first to decry and protest such cuts. The students are not without great blame in all of this. Shifting their debt to the public is not in their best interest by any means. Because in time, they become the public.

[Account Deleted]

A bit off topic, but once again we see the fascist left at work.
Mr Cross: "Perhaps it is time to step aside..."
Exactly in what manner are you suggesting, Mr Cross?
Hmmmm?
Cue the cricket corps.

[Don Bessee]

Something tells me that Dr. R will not be going quietly into the night. ;-)

[George Rebane]

As a point of clarification, here the terms "youth" and "young" in the case of the millennials refer to their status as the youngest of the adult voting cadres, those born in the 1982-2000 interval described in my commentary and in the national literature discussing their capabilities and proclivities.

And yes, their aggregate dumbth is due to their education. No one is making the case that their cognitive neural structures are different from that of their recent ancestors. Their capacity to learn has not changed, it's just that it was squandered.

[Gregory]

Sorry, Scott, old boy, but the holders of over a trillion dollars of government funded and held, non-dischargeable in bankruptcy court debt are also the victims of a largely government funded and directed fraud. If we don't allow a political fix of the situation, the Millenials will when they have the political power to do so.

We have been papering over public K-12 incompetence for years. California's late and lamented Standard Testing and Reporting, and the accompanying Academic Performance and 100 Similar Schools Indexes were a good start but the Calif. Dept. of (mis)Education did their best to make it difficult to access and interpret the data. As a partial result, the worst performing school in the county, the Waldorf Yuba River Charter, is getting a brand spanking new campus at the cost of millions, and one of the worst, the Grass Valley Charter school that was Common Core to its core before there was a Common Core, has cover. Both schools have, since their inception, hidden the poor quality of their instruction by taking kids from way above average demographics and turn out average to below average students.

The Special Education contingent is in most of the positions of power in Nevada County public schools, and this is not a good thing for the vast majority of kids who deserve better than they are getting.

[George Boardman]

I don't know if this ruins your day, but Jeffy has lumped you in with a well-known local cartoonist and yours truly for scaring away millennials and well-educated engineers who are western Nevada County's economic future.

Of course, this condemnation comes after he once again proclaims the "internet is changing the way we communicate," rendering ineffectual antiquated communications devices like The Union and out-of-touch conservative blogs.

I wish he'd make up his mind.

[Bill Tozer]

It will be increasing harder to see hard cold actual results from CA public high schools for awhile. In 2016, the schools are rated on what percentage of the pupils take the standardized tests.
Surprise, surprise, surprise. East Palo Alto is a failing school. One of those 50,000 public schools that The Grandma formerly named Rodman said on the campaign trail should be closed. Yep, if the school's scores fall to 50%, they should be shuttered. Of course she said this right after a big pro-school choice donor was being tight with the money and Bill and Podesta had to fly out and make a personal chat with the man to loosen up the purse strings. Then came the announcement, which upset the teachers' unions, then came silence, but I digress.

Why is East Palo Alto a failing school?? Glad you asked. Seems there was a student walk out to protest taking the tests. Forget their beef, but it seemed important to the top notch high school 's student body. Low percentage rate for mandated testings equals to low score. It's the participation rate, not the tests that schools will be ranked by in 2016. That's why East Palo Alto is a failing school. ROFLMFUEO. What a great solution to a big problem.
Blame away. Meanwhile, I must say not all millennials are homeless, not with Mom's couch available. So there. :)

[rl crabb]

Now they're confusing me with Scott. Sorry, Scott.

[fish]

Posted by: George Boardman | 18 February 2016 at 02:02 PM

Must you poke the bear with a stick?

Trick question......of course you must....and we all should ......at every opportunity.

[Bill Tozer]

Well, there goes the topic right down the commode. Hi Jeffried! Big hugs and kisses little big man.
Now, where were we? Ah yes. I agree with Dr. Rebane's 12:32 in the pm.
Their capacity to learn has not changed.

https://www.facebook.com/mobiletoones/photos/a.10150561089131831.368424.74470141830/10153223383671831/?type=3&theater

[Account Deleted]

Gregory at 1:00 - Gasp!!! The govt has committed fraud??
Really?? You mean like the fraud it's been committing against me with Medicare and SS? Unlike that sort of fraud, the student loans were voluntary. Just because they were lied to, the necessary information about how worthless some student loans were was freely available to anyone with the common sense to do the required due diligence. If you want to talk about naming the fraudsters and charging them and ushering them off to long prison sentences, I'm with you.
But this 'political' solution is nothing more than absolving a certain class of adults of their financial responsibilities that they willingly signed up for just because it provides convenient fodder for left wing politicians. There are some students that worked two or three jobs to pay off these loans. And you want those folks to now help pay off the loans from the deadbeats. Aren't you a swell guy.

[Account Deleted]

crabb at 2:13 - Who is "they"?
If true, you might want to consult with an attorney.

[Bill Tozer]

F
https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/796226620511377/?type=3&theater

[Account Deleted]

Here are some of the poor little dears that need their higher education paid for by the slobs that actually work for a living and pay taxes:
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/02/18/rutgers-students-hold-group-therapy-session-after-milo-yiannopoulos-visit/
God help our nation.

[Russ Steele]

Yea and they do not know their ones and zeros and Xs and Ys either

CSU faces a persistent challenge of having to provide developmental classes for incoming freshmen. In the most recent CSU freshman class, for example, 25,000 students, or almost half of the incoming class, were required to start their math or English remedial work during the summer before they enrolled through CSU’s Early Start program.

[George Rebane]

re RussS' 1007pm - these are the very same millennials about whom our local looney Left is totally unaware. Living within their limited and politically correct horizons, they really believe that such information is fomented locally by fevered rightwingers whose knowledge of the outside world is similarly constrained. Oh well.

[Gregory]

Scott 335, be as cute as you want, but the Congress made student loan debt not dischargable by bankruptcy and the Congress can take that back, just as Congress can make any rule they want about Social Security and Medicare benefits. If the student loan problem and the problems with runaway costs of higher education (driven largely by easy loans that chase higher education's prices) are not addressed, Millenials will vote with their middle finger and you will not enjoy their approach to digital rectal exams for old folk.

The young are getting screwed, and they will eventually become the majority of voters in some future November. Ignore at your peril, and the peril of the nation.

[Account Deleted]

Gregory at 10:22 - I'm well aware that debt can't discharged by bankruptcy. Otherwise most of those dolts would run up a 200K tab, grab a worthless degree and promptly file for bankruptcy. Then go get food stamps and lie on the beach all day drinking beer.
"The young are getting screwed..." - so? I am too - where do I go to get my money back? Those kids voluntarily bent over and held their own ankles.
"...and you will not enjoy their approach to digital rectal exams for old folk."
How does this in any way differ from the screwing over I've enjoyed my whole working life?
Gregory, if you think giving those young clowns a free pass with debt they voluntarily signed up for as adults will in any change their gimmee-gimmee attitude, you are in for a rude shock. If anything, it will simply reinforce their childish and selfish attitude towards all of their debts and responsibilities.

[Account Deleted]

Oops - line 13
...in any way change...

[Jon]

..can you imagine going through life with the level of Obermuller's hostility, anger and bitterness toward the younger generations? Sorry Scott, but when you were a young adult, you and your peers never faced anything close to the astronomical tuition and total cost burdens of pursuing higher education. Now you understand why Bernie is hitting the right chords with the young ADULT voters today. Whether you like it or not, millenials are engaged like very other recent generations, and they will summarily dismiss your antiquated views.

Credit to Gregory for defending access to quality educational opportunities for all young adults in America.

[fish]

......can you imagine going through life with the level of Obermuller's hostility, anger and bitterness toward the younger generations?

Psychological projection is a terrible thing. ....perhaps a qualified therapist could help you before you become a danger to yourself or others.

[Dirk]

Praise the Lord that dummkopf millennials are forced to vote for wise old people for President. We are saved!

[Don Bessee]

Can you imagine going through life with 'I guzzled the kool-aide syndrome' aka gruberization like the 'jons' of the world? ;-)

[Bill Tozer]

Young people don't have a chance nowadays. It's not student loans or housing. It's that crap libholes call public K-12 education that has filled their minds with diarrhea and robbed them of a fair chance in adulthood. Talking generally of course.
What the heck are so many many young people doing in college taking "remedial" English or Math? That is Jr. High math and Jr. High English when I went through the system. Our Jr. High algebra (and 9th grade algebra) I struggled through is the same nowadays as college level algebra for credit. I know, I have seen the freshman courses.....for credit! Just look at the required reading and English I took in the 6- 8th grade and compare that to the Remedial English colleges offer high school grads to bring them almost up to speed. It's so easy and lame and inferior to what Jr. Highs produced. I bet some of those freshmen now who took English 101 and received college credit would be held back a year in the old Jr. High (middle school) years until they got it right. I would place my screw off Jr. High courses head to head with any high school senior class courses any day of the week and some against collegiate courses...and win!
it is criminal what liberal education has done to our youth's futures. I advocate stripping the pensions of all those public education administrators of our current youth in lieu of putting them in stocks in the public square for display.
The youth of today are probably a heck of a lot smarter than I will ever be. They just had their futures robbed/trashed by the same folks who claim to have the fix. Bullshit, it's all bullshit. Garbage in, brilliance out? Not in the real world.
So forget the libs always raising the cost of tuition, the cost of housing, the piss poor economy. (Yes Jon, America's economy is the shiniest turd in the outhouse). Forget all that. Fix the problem before the 3rd grade. After that it is too late, unless a very few lucky bastards have a twist of fate put a couple of rare inspiring educators in their path.
So, now this begs the question. How many who got screwed and thus screwed off in free K-12 education will continue to get screwed (and screw off) through free college?
Sleep through high school (for good cause) and they will sleep through free college as well, again, for good cause. Curses on the liberals that trashed the formerly best education system in the world. Now you want to run this country? Here's a big one fingered salute for you.

[Gregory]

"Credit to Gregory for defending access to quality educational opportunities for all young adults in America."-Jon/Frisch

"Access" is one of those leftist-liberal weasel words that means we'll-pay-for-it-if-they-can't, and that's the attitude that has driven the cost of education through the roof, as universities are as capable of sopping up every possible dollar and pissing it away as any other bidness (sic).

California once had a system of education that worked... k-12 was effective and served students reasonably well... my crappy high school had solid classes in math, chemistry and physics, great vocational track choices and even cranked out a few professional musicians on a regular basis. A decent community college that was practically free, and a tolerable CSU was nearby. A great UC was within commuting distance but far enough and room and board reasonable enough that most chose the dorms. It also wasn't all that expensive at the time.

Should all have access to a free education through the current community college level? Yes, indeedy! but that's where a real high school diploma should be.

What I am arguing for is dismantling the modern day equivalent of indentured servitude for high priced pseudoeducations they were told were worth mortgaging their futures for. Make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, get the Treasury out of the business of printing money to funnel to the likes of both Harvard and the shoddy trade school that was set to fleece Ferguson's Michael Brown had he lived to be the first of his family to go to "college".

Were I Emperor for a Day I'd also get rid of automatic pay increases for public school teachers taking useless education degrees, which drive CSU consumption with k12 costs to no good effect. Madness.

[Gregory]

Regarding Michael Brown's lack of a future no matter what happened, here's a.source that Jon/Frisch should find to be impeccable:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/what-college-was-michael_b_5719731.html

[Gregory]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/what-college-was-michael_b_5719731.html

I hope this isn't a duplicate post... HuffPo's take on the Michael Brown Alma mater that wasn't.

[Account Deleted]

Wrong again Jonny Boy. I'm not hostile to any generation. I'm just not feeling the love for lay-a-bouts with an entitlement attitude. My kids are young adults and they managed to get an education without any long term debt of any kind. Of course, they did boring stuff like WORK and they didn't get any spring break holidays in Florida. No ParTay every night. No attitude of gimmee and entitlement. There are lots of young folks that are not in debt and working at productive jobs. I have a niece who's probably running a pricey tab, but she's currently in an intern program for medical doctors. She will be able to pay her bills.
I notice in the links posted by Gregory that there was a judicial process with a trial with evidence and a verdict and a judgement. Great. I'm not fine with the idea of every one who graduates being able to simply say "like wow, man - I have a degree and no job, so I'm just gonna do nothing and file for bankruptcy".
At the very least - if some one does file to get rid of their debt from higher education, can we at least expect that what ever degree or certificate they earned will be declared null and void? Because that's what they're claiming. And what about the ones that did work their asses off to pay off their loans? Gregory is pretty silent on that one. If you reward bad behavior and punish an attitude of working to pay off your financial obligations, what sort of future behavior will increase?
A lot of kids are getting a crappy deal from the govt in terms of their education, but so is everyone getting a crappy deal from the govt in all sorts of other ways. We can start with the vets. They offered their lives and the govt treats them like crap with the VA. The whiney college kids might want to get in line behind the folks with no arms and no legs when they're bitching about life.

[Jon]

Obermuller. Very, very German. Anyone with an old school German grandmother gets the Scotty O. psychology..:)

[Jon]

Hey Boys, the idea of free or heavily reduced higher education cost is taking hold among the young voters of America. Its going to be a massive issue going forward, regardless if Bernie doesn't make it to the WH. In the days of yore, a HS education was deemed sufficient to be a productive and well rounded person. It was made free. Technology has rendered that level fairly useless if one desires any semblance of a good life. Those making 250K a year have no problems, but those of modest means cannot afford it, and no low wage job for a college kid will ever pay for it, regardless if the kid works 30-40 hours/week in Scotty Hardliner's world. Well past the time to turn the unsustainable costs of higher education into a scaled system, dependent on income, subsidized by, yes, the US Govt, who will benefit from kids getting a good college degree and being employable for life (as opposed to the situation with Walt and Todd that we see). Free college education is a pipedream, but Sanders is striking the right chord for the future!

[Todd Juvinall]

I see the "jon" is all in on BKing America and destroying the future of the young. Liberalism is a mental disease and "jon" has it bad.,

[Bill Tozer]

Well, let's start with community colleges when we talk about free college education, aka, free Jr. College. That's what's on the table and that is what is being offered The Dreamers. Image the UC System paying Hllary 3000,000 and then another 250,000 clamshells for closed no electronic devises allowed speeches. In and out in less than 40 minutes. Think of how many kids could get a free 4-year ride on those wasted funds. Maybe only a half dozen or so, but it would really make a difference in the kids lives.

[Gregory]

We have bankruptcy laws for a reason... you can't get blood out of a turnip and the USA, for good or ill, has outlawed both debtor's prisons and involuntary servitude. I tend to think bankruptcy is the lesser of the two evils, and in today's credit driven economy, having gone into personal bankruptcy is not a cheap way to go unless you really have no reasonable expectation to pay your debts.

In California, CC's have historically been pretty close to free. Many who have been feeding for profit colleges didn't meet the standards of their CC, so removing them from the government student loan teats will deny some students "access" to crappy colleges out to fleece them, but I think that's a good thing.

[Gregory]

In my lifetime, subsidy of higher education has been a net transfer from the poor to the wealthy as the poor generally don't attend the UC Berkeleys and UCLAs, they take a few classes at Sierra College or East LA Junior College and then drop out... or they never attend a college at all.

[Gregory]

"Obermuller. Very, very German. Anyone with an old school German grandmother gets the Scotty O. psychology..:)"
-"Jon"

A Frisch from Chicago would know that.

[Gregory]

Herr Obermuller... degrees in things like polisci, ethnic studies, anthropology and sociology are generally null and void already.

[Account Deleted]

Wrong again, Jonny Boy (gets repetitive) - my grandmother was Scotch/Irish/English. I'm more Czech than any other one country. When my great grandfather left Europe there was no Germany.
Once again I see Jonny Boy without any intelligent argument and he continues the personal attacks.
And Gregory - when I said null and void, I meant literally. You default on your degree - then you have no degree to put on your resume or CV. You have a HS diploma and then empty, wasted years. A lot of jobs call for a degree of any sort to qualify for the position. If you default on your car, they take it away. Simple.

[Bill Tozer]

P

https://www.facebook.com/RightWingRantsRaves/photos/a.341527965933730.83867.341490872604106/943282765758244/?type=3&theater

[Gregory]

Scott O, you're sounding more and more like Keachie, a master at dreaming up unworkable and illogical solutions; the only institution with the power to erase an earned degree is the institution who granted the degree, such actions are exceedingly rare for good reasons, and there isn't any upside for them to sign on to your brave new education world.

BTW here's an interesting take on those wanting bernie to pay for their education from Sowell
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2016/02/17/the-lure-of-socialism-n2120485/page/full

[Account Deleted]

Gregory - illogical? Then all loans backed by some sort of collateral are illogical. Unworkable? Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it isn't workable.
Citing the status quo as an excuse to not change things is what I'd call illogical.
We agree on a lot of the issues here - mainly the sad state of American govt education.
Trying to fix that will be nigh on impossible. Encouraging more of the same by letting the kiddies know they won't have to honor their financial obligations doesn't seem to make the problem any better.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[George Rebane]

This post was updated on 20 February 2016.

[Jon]

Everytime I see this thread, the theme song from Father Knows Best comes to mind. :)

[Todd Juvinall]

Nothing wrong with a wholesome family of normal people. I bet your family was a load.

[Gregory]

Scott, stop with the Keachie impersonation, too funny.

[George Rebane]

Jon 1108am - What tenets of your belief system do such feelings evoke and/or confirm?

[Gregory]

GR, I can answer your 11:46... no tenets, just a caricature of people "Jon"/Frisch likes to make of people like you as being horribly old fashioned and out of touch. He thinks pudgy old lefties like he and Jeffie are the true spokesmen for kids 30+ years younger than they. Hey, at least the Mom in that show became Spock's mom in her later years and Wyatt held onto that role a lot longer than Winona Ryder did. And the late teens, early 20's daughter in FKB got to merge with an alien energy life form and do the horizontal bop with the inventor of the warp drive in the 2nd season of old Star Trek.

Just another side comment, in the last years of his life, J.S. Bach's music was roundly criticized as being horribly old fashioned and out of touch, but somehow, the elder Bach's music has stood the sands of time better than the Rococo style... his kid's music.

[George Rebane]

Gregory 1232pm - Agreed. Yes time will tell, providing they are not then shooting the 'tellers' as they have in past regimes that started with an embrace of socialism.

[Account Deleted]

Gregory - I see you've run out of ideas and facts.
Now you're impersonating a 12 year girl rolling her eyes. Or impersonating Jon.
I don't want to know.
Jon is always against any sort of value system that might be laughed at by his circle of friends. The thing he fears most is not being popular with his crowd.

[Bill Tozer]

Father knows best? Indeed!

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/609715075845385/?type=3&theater

[Account Deleted]

re Bill T's link at 10:39 - Now think about how many times the pundits and commentators come up with this nonsense about how politics have just lately gotten so nasty.