‘… stuck on 1% growth.’ (updated 2aug16)

George Rebane

On the last day of the Democratic Convention we suddenly saw some very un-Democratic displays of military officers on the podium, (borrowed) Old Glories galore, and shouts of ‘USA!, USA!, …’ from the floor.  So much in fact that NPR’s Weekend Edition had to do a feature piece on it asking experts what is the meaning of this year’s Democrats coopting traditionally Republican totems.  The answer, of course, is beyond simple.

To support the newest National Lie expertly floated by President Obama last Wednesday about how well the economy is doing, the Democrats scuttled back for instructions from their political bible, Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals.  And there it was, plain as day – when getting caught doing something bad, spout the good stuff from the other side while blaming your bad stuff on them.

A quick example of this is the liberals’ historical distaste for America’s military involvements on foreign shores culminating in their strong tenet that America should not be the world’s sheriff, that America can protect its global interests with generous applications of deft (daft?) diplomacy unsupported by military might.  Today after they have decimated our armed forces, Democrats are now the new champions of NATO after Trump brought up the obvious conclusion that our economy and fiscal structure no longer allow us to fund our duties as the global sheriff.  We need our allies to fulfill their commitments to funding our mutual defense.  Hewing to Alinsky, the Left is now yelping that Trump wants to throw our European allies under the Russian bus.

Ever since serving in Europe, over the years I have heard again and again our German friends explain their undeniable logic – ‘As long as America is willing to bear the lion’s share of our defense burden, why should we?  We can use the monies saved for our lavish social programs instead.’  They are bald-faced open about their utterly rational response to our continuing insanity.  Now Hillary is strutting her stuff as the new fiscally profligate guarantor of global security, in full confidence that her constituents don’t have the gray matter to parse her words.

So no matter what garlands Hillary drapes on the Obama/Clinton domestic and foreign policies, they cannot hide the rot they have created over the last 7.5 years.  America no longer is the great country it was as Trump continues to point out.  The rot?  America has NEVER been in such global disrespect as it is today – the actions of both ‘friends’ and declared enemies attest to that in every quarter of the globe that is an order of magnitude more dangerous today than when Obama took office.  Western civilization has not been under such existential threat since the Ottomans besieged Vienna in 1683.

American society has been purposely fractured by race, ethnicity, and class to guarantee their votes for an ever expanding leviathan.  Our public educational system has been compromised or more accurately constructively destroyed.  Graduating Johnnies and Jills are no longer competent enough to learn needed job-garnering skills, they know literally nothing of US or world history, and are shunted to debt-ladened college educations valued by no one save some government bureaucracy as the employer of last resort.  (Today's non-STEM baccalaureate is yesterday's high school diploma.)  The only reliable human product produced by the union schools are cadres of politically naïve progressives – most recently the millennials.  Very few of them are can understand the complexities of issues, especially those based on technology, science, and/or the demands of basic numeracy.

An example of the most recent swill fed to these people is the state of our economy and fisc.  Concepts like debt, deficits, debt service, and their related rates are a total mystery to these voters.  Obama and Hillary’s glorious economic progress just received another shot in the shorts from the Dept of Commerce that yesterday revised downward the already dismal GDP growth rates of recent quarters, let alone the paraplegic progress we have made since 2009. (more here)

Here are some particulars that Hillary promises to fix by continuing Obama's tax and regulate policies that have given new definition to ‘slow growth’.  4Q15 annualized growth was again revised downward to 0.8%, as was 1Q16 to 0.9% and 2Q16 just came in at 1.2%.  All this as our economist brain trust predicted a 3% or higher growth for 2016 (later again revised downward to 2.6%).  To achieve their first prediction we would need 5% growth rates for 3Q16 and 4Q16, and a 4.1% rate for the downward revised prediction.  One wonders what those economists were smoking.

There is no way under heaven this mindlessly mired economy can achieve such growth, and notwithstanding the glorious assessments of Hillary and Obama which issue only from their own fevered brains that worry someone will peek behind the curtain and tell their voters what’s really there.   But wait! Donald Trump has already done that and the guy won’t stop talking about making America great again (which hopeful message the Alinsky Left labels as “dark” and foreboding a “Midnight for America”).   The possibility of this revelation calls for a colossal shift of the nation’s Mass Mind, at least the part that is vulnerable to such manipulations.  And that is exactly what will be attempted between now and November, starting with ‘Look!  Traitor Trump is inviting the Russians to hack Hillary’s (existentially) non-existent servers and reveal America’s non-existent (according to Hillary) secrets to the world.’  And with tear-filled eyes the nation is diverted as we gratefully nod in agreement.  All is well.

[31jul16 update]  Interesting gleanings from the media buzz.  The Hillary/Obama lies about our economy’s wonderful condition continue to dominate the lamestream outlets which have no problem still casting Trump’s message of hope – more jobs, lower taxes, fewer regulations, better trade deals, overseas respect, secure borders, vetting immigrants, … - as portending a dark future for the country.  Alinsky is tap dancing in his coffin.

To show how badly the lamestream is in the tank for the socialists’ agenda, Pew Research reports that 55% of Fox News viewership is leftwing or left leaning.  Of course its audience has to be ‘balanced’, otherwise FN would not have almost 3X viewership compared to its next closest rival.  But what that research really shows is that even the country’s liberal wing has a huge and knowledgeable cohort that demands something more balanced, comprehensive, and accurate in its news products, something the major lamestream outlets neither can nor want to deliver.  For the most recent example witness the upside down coverage of the two concluded conventions.

And perhaps more direct evidence comes from the Hillary camp.  She gave FN’s Sunday News with Chris Wallace her very first post-convention interview today.  Here is a woman who knows how to reach out to a large and ideologically comprehensive audience, one into which she must make inroads before the election.

In the opposite corner we have National Propaganda Radio which this morning did another hit piece on Trump re the two candidates’ upcoming security briefings.  They dug up a security official who actually believes that, given what he misunderstood or misconstrued Trump to have said about Hillary’s ‘lost emails’, Trump would actually tell state secrets to Putin.  This in the face of our current president’s revealed “flexibility” in toadying up to Russia (e.g. the Ukraine invasions), and the indisputable fact that Hillary has already let fly four years of state secrets to Putin and every other bad actor in the world.

What makes any reasonable person believe that as President she will suddenly develop a sense of what is sensitive/classified, and not blab it to whomever when she is then immune to such restrictions?  Recall that the US President has the absolute power to determine the security classification of everything, and that includes instant declassification, which comes to her attention.  So we have another Alinsky moment, the innocence and guilt of Trump and Hillary re the nation’s security get switched 180 by the lamestream.

[2aug16 update]  How can any party, especially its leader, take credit for almost doubling the national debt while delivering such an historically anemic economy, and then crow about it?

Comments

[Walt]

Hillary goes on stage to proclaim everything just hunky dory. That's for the gullible to believe. Don't forget. it's HER plan to put many, many more on the gov. dole
Trump wants to do the opposite.

[BradC]

Somebody seems to think America is a good place to invest. Foreign direct investments are higher than anytime in the last 20 years,

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/fdi/fdinewsrelease.htm

[Walt]

Yes Brad.,, they sure "invested" plenty in Hillary.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2015/apr/20/reince-priebus/hillary-clinton-took-money-kings-four-countries-go/

http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/11/exclusive-persian-gulf-sheikhs-gave-bill-hillary-100-million/

https://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2016/03/17/hillary-clinton-campaign-totals-13-fundraisers-in-foreign-countries/

[Walt]

Here we go again,, It's bad enough plenty of fresh water flows out to sea,, now add plenty of tax dollars to the flow.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/still-waters-u-crack-down-ocean-noise-harms-111308867.html?ref=gs

Someone start a cheap online degree program for marine biologists. Then get your kids a job with the Gov.

[George Rebane]

BradC 114pm - Do you attribute this surge to the expectation that both candidates appear to look down on our foreign trade with regard to existing policies and future trade deals in the works which may never come to pass? In short, if you want to make money from the American market, then you better get in while the getting is good.

BTW, your linked data appears to be in nominal dollars as explained in the article. This indicates that the former $335B investment peak in 2000 has the buying power of $461B in 2015 dollars. And therefore the cited 2015 investment of $420B is really not "higher than anytime in the last 20 years". In fact it is 8.9% lower than the 2000 peak during the dotcom boom.

[Walt]

Thanks Dr.R for helping us with understanding the real data. What was money then,, just ain't the same money today.

[Bill Tozer]

The downward revision to 0.8 4Q15 shocked me and I was waiting for the fallout....waiting.....still waiting, nothing to see here.. Thank you, Dr. Rebane, for mentioning it. Geeze, those green sprouts have been found to have shallow roots or poisonous soil or something, thus they have withered and died. The green sprouts we have all hung our hopes on since 2009

Monetary policy: We have no arrows in our quiver. Raise the rates now, and a recession with occur sooner.. Heck, we already are too close to the edge right now. Is it Germany that is following Japan's example with its negative rates, or is going under 0% coming next month? We must raise rates somewhere in time if only for the sole reason rates can be lowered again in the future if needed to tap on the gas pedal.
Since a topic of the post is fiscal policy, not monetary (boring) policy, I apologize,.

Briefly jumping into the realm of foreign policy, something did come out of Philly we all missed. Hillary has collected under her wing a pack of experienced world traveled policy advisors and they met in Philly behind the scenes for some surprisingly candid brainstorming sessions while we were justifiably distracted by the B Team speakers on the stage on off nights.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HDsrSBFfBfE

[Ben Emery]

For years I have been giving one variation or another of this distinction between Liberals ad Progressives.

"The difference between Progressive and Liberals are:

Liberals want to add services/ government into a dysfunctional system so everybody has enough to survive.

Progressives want to reform the dysfunctional system so that everybody can afford to live."- Ben Emery

Although lots of overlap is found when talking about specific issues the difference lies in the approach at the stated objectives. I am a proud progressive and have grown to consider my liberal friends the biggest obstacles in creating a truly egalitarian society and government.

The worst are neo liberals. They control the modern day Democratic Party and it started with Bill Clinton. I left the Democratic Party over NAFTA in the 1990's and have been butting heads with my democratic party loyalists ever since.

Excerpt from Chis Hedges.

I save my anger for our bankrupt liberal intelligentsia of which, sadly, I guess I am a member. Liberals are the defeated, self-absorbed Mouse Man in Dostoevsky’s “Notes From Underground.” They embrace cynicism, a cloak for their cowardice and impotence. They, like Dostoevsky’s depraved character, have come to believe that the “conscious inertia” of the underground surpasses all other forms of existence. They too use inaction and empty moral posturing, not to affect change but to engage in an orgy of self-adulation and self-pity. They too refuse to act or engage with anyone not cowering in the underground. This choice does not satisfy the Mouse Man, as it does not satisfy our liberal class, but neither has the strength to change. The gravest danger we face as a nation is not from the far right, although it may well inherit power, but from a bankrupt liberal class that has lost the will to fight and the moral courage to stand up for what it espouses.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/liberals_are_useless_20091206

[Account Deleted]

"Progressives want to reform the dysfunctional system so that everybody can afford to live."- Ben Emery
At what cost? Who's definition of 'living' will be used? Not starving? Living comfortably? What about the folks that won't work? So many questions - so few answers from the 'progressives'.
Glad to see that Ben is still with us. Keep it comin'.

[fish]

Totally OT but not good.....not good by a longshot!

http://www.news.com.au/world/reports-turkish-troops-have-sealed-off-incirlik-usnato-nuclear-air-base/news-story/4d7bb16e4e86842218b5b0d7d70f582b

[MikeL]

Ben,

If you were to wave a magic wand and have your idea of a progressive utopia what would this look like?
Also since I do not believe in magic or magic wands how would you make your idea of a progressive society happen?

[Ben Emery]

Although it is not even in my top five criteria Denmark is the #1 country for doing business. At least 7 if not 8 of the top 10 countries could be described as democratic socialist countries by your guys standards.

http://www.forbes.com/best-countries-for-business/

[Bill Tozer]

WTF Ben. We got a topic here. Take it to the Sandbox, ass wipe. Geeze, last time you were here you we saying the exact same things. Strike that. Last two times. Are you stuck on stupid or what??

[George Rebane]

Well BenE (640pm) does have a point since he seems to suggest that the US follow Denmark in order to kick our economy into gear. However, I do believe that the Messrs Emery (Ben and Paul) need to find a new banner to march under. Denmark's is pretty frayed given its unsustainable public benefit programs, and its apples and oranges relationship to the US (we'll discuss its brain drain later).

Denmark's growth rate is and has been anemic even when compared to the US, and in its desperation all it can do is keep raising taxes on its citizens who already pay through their noses - "At 60.2%, Denmark last year had the highest top personal income tax rate among the 34 countries in the OECD". On a dollar-for-dollar basis Denmark pays the world's highest rates for its socialized healthcare - since its reducing levels of care are considered 'free' by innumerate liberals who cannot grok the comparison. As NATO members they cannot even afford to pay the required 2% of GDP as their share for the continent's communal defense.

And importing unassimilating Muslim migrants today will do nothing to help and everything to destroy their little mono-cultural Valhalla. That seems to be where Hillary wants to take us.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/denmark/gdp-growth
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/01/pf/taxes/top-income-tax/

[Bill Tozer]

Sorry Ben, I was having a flashback from the Cold War. PTSD after reading your words. Ok, liberals suck,we agree.....and for the same reasons. And they suck because they are the wrenching ball of any resemblance to critical thinking. And if millions of students know absolutely nothing about history or anything else besides smearing fake menstural blood on themselves and demanding a safe place before walking out of liberal arts colleges and into the real world, I do not blame our young people for that no more.

I was wrong to blame the students. I, like you, put the full blame for the trail of destruction directly on the liberal educators, liberal academia, liberal press, and liberals in government at all levels. Take about crimes against humanity. The students were only taught one thing and that is accept as truth what liberals in academia were teaching them and the poor students were taught to NEVER question why, or even question. Never challenge. Only one viewpoint allowed.
With our childrun so poorly equipped to leave Mom's basement after they received their parchments of achievement, the only ones that will hire them are the government or the media or academia. Thus they talk to one another incessantly because nobody else can stomach to be around them. They are a miserable pathetic lot, very unhappy people. So, they just swirl about in their confined circle of friends that think what they say are profound and deep, man. Their circle is the world and the world is their circle. That small is world of liberal media, liberal academia, and the unfortunately the powers now found in every level of government.
Yes, Ben, the liberals as we both define them as the biggest threat to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness this nation has ever known.

[Bill Tozer]

Sorry again, Ben. There have been several posts and threads concerning definitions and labels here... . Some you like, like progressives. Some you don't, like ragheads. But there is a post by Dr. Rebane here and you are stuck in saying there is a difference between liberals and progressives again and again. Really? Nah, you are joking, right? My, i never heard of such a thing before. Please spend weeks teaching me this ancient knowledge you have finally discovered a few years back.
Look, I at least threaded the education angle into my last screed just to hit a topic found within Dr. Rebane's post and slam liberals at the same time. Multitasking, if you prefer.
I heard ya Ben the first time. Weave it in to some topic so I can heard it again.

Here's a bone for you:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=6h3G-lMZxjo&ebc=ANyPxKo-qLBmgvP4anbPPVbotBhfIbFlhO68VGiAIL__dWURtHxytFXoiXOBAC1K64Cp3dJUaPXmQioYF59COwedYArZyTWgnQ

[Walt]

Hay Ben!!,, Got something fur ya'.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/economy/venezuela-decree-farm-labor/
Forced labor from one of your favorite Commi,,uh,, Socialist nations.

[Account Deleted]

As usual - Ben dreams of the progressive paradise but can't give us any specifics other than 'Denmark'.
He went to Solvang once and thinks it would be swell if the entire US were like that.
I do believe the US would be more able to resemble Oz than Denmark. Denmark is pretty darn euro/nordic and at least Oz had folks of all colors. Or was that the horse?
Here's a swell article about Hillary's 'plan' for the US economy.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/economy/hillary-clinton-economy-jobs-moodys/
Moodys is the outfit that completely blew the last crash that hit our economy so you know you're dealing with real sharp thinkers.
The money quote: "Evident from her proposals is the belief that the country needs to invest more in education, infrastructure and workers, and that the well-to-do, and to a lesser degree financial institutions and businesses, should pay for it," Moody's said.
Sure - that's the ticket. The well-to-do and businesses normally just burn all that money in their fire place as it is. Might as well 'invest' in all of that good stuff. And we'll have 2.6 million more jobs a year - almost enough to off set the millions of new Dem voters pouring across the border.
And they admit our debt will continue to sky rocket.
Sounds like a plan.

[George Rebane]

re my 712pm - I didn't exactly answer Mr Emery's point about Denmark's business investments because I thought that was an inane point with an obvious answer. But on second thought, I erred.

People need to know that Denmark's business tax rate is 22%; America's is 35-47% depending on which states you're doing business. Denmark is in the EU that lets Danish companies access the European markets without tariff concerns. And Denmark has a northern European culture and work ethic, in a socially stable land that provides the reliable work force which businesses need. The capitalist pays competitive wages from which the poor schlemiels have to pony up taxes to the government. As a business investor, what's not to like?

[Bill Tozer]

Dr. Rebane has laid out the picture of the cards we have been dealt. Domestic and foreign policy. Call it gloom and doom, dark and divisive, whatever. Arrange the cards you are holding anyway you want, but get ready to ante up and play the cards in your hand. And, in the game or the here and now, dueces and one eyed jacks are not wild, unless you are a liberal.

NATO and European socialism-Marxist loving homogeneous city states within the Kingdom of Enlightment.. Bottom line: The Scots, the repulsive Dutch, the Neverlanders from Netherlands, the Swedes....the whole lot of them can only play in their pixie dust sandbox if The USA! provides the security and picks up the tab. They play, we pay. NATO is a de facto fully funded by USA! taxpayer branch of the Pentagon.
No worries. The day after the Brexit vote(less than 24 hours) the plan was one the table for a European Army. Actually, the plan has been pushed hard by the liberals from Britain to the farthest reaches of Old Europe since at least 2005 in the EU, but they all denied that as horse rubbish. Brexit gave them the long awaited justifiable excuse to pull the wrinkled and folded up plan out from many a back pockets that instant.. An European Army controlled by the faceless illuminati in Haugue. That is my definition of where Progressiveism will take us.
Money talks, road apples walk. Ever hear this one, "Dad, can I take the car and is there any gas it in?" They play their little make belief games in Old Europe, and we the suspicious one provide the insurance, gas, and car.

[Bill Tozer]

Morning folks.
The progressive wet dreams of the Emery Boys & Co:
Ever wonder why the poster boy examples of "how to do quasi-socialism right" are reduced to smaller and smaller white countries of Northern Europe? Those countries with deep cultural identity. Can't use any examples from the Southern Hemisphere? Not one? Ok, how about using the birthplace of democracy such as the Greek Isles. How about Southetn Europe? Spain? Work ethic a problem?
France was everybody's calender pin up girl to point to as a fine example of how progressive social policies work just a decade or two ago.
Apparently, the examples the Emery Boys use are moving steadily farther north and becoming progressively more white and smaller. The crystal ball tells me to give it a few years and they will be holding up Iceland as the last great hope for civilization. After Iceland, then it will be the Eskimos. After that, the moon will be settled by progressives and they can show us how it is done.
The solution for my Brother Ben is to decouple security, decouple capitalism, and decouple human nature. Or move to Canada.

[Todd Juvinall]

A couiple of things in today's Sunday Bee.

The Muslim couple who lost a son in Iraq were interviewed by the leftwing media and of course reupped their hate of Trump. What I found interesting is the media does not correct the resonses which are based on a policy never voiced by Trump. And Trump opposed the Iraq war which means if he had been President, their son would still be alive. Their beef is now Trump wanting the immigrants vetted.

Second, the Bee extols the greatness of a illegal latino man who has lived here for many many years and is now taking his citizenship. He is doing that to vote for Hillary and against Trump. And the story is so rosy. Anyway, we have on the right said the democrats need these immigrants for votes and here it is.

[Gregory]

The biggest problem with the Khan testimonial for Clinton was that there's nothing in the Constitution that bars a President from suspending immigration for any cause they decide is required, and suspending Muslim immigration from areas of radical Muslim activity until such time that applicants can be adequately vetted should have been Obama's policy, too.

Pakistan, the Khan family birthplace, has a functioning government that the USA works with regularly. Syria doesn't (nor does a number of Muslim nations... especially Libya, whose government was completely destabilized under Sec'y of the Status Quo Hillary Clinton) and the concept that the Constitution requires equal ease of immigration from both is ludicrous. Perhaps Mr. Khan can point to the clause in the Constitution that proves his point.

Khan's speech was a pure emotional appeal for partisan political purposes.

[Gregory]

What Master Ben doesn't know about Denmark is that the Danes, unlike progressives in the USA, are perfectly capable of harsh personal judgment for folks who can't pull their weight, or make bad mistakes.

For example, I doubt many Danes would give Ben a pass for fibbing about his education when running for office.

Regarding "(left-)liberals" vs Progressives, Progressives are less worried about the toes they step on in their quest for Utopia.

[Russ Steele]

I invite you all to read this post The DiploMad 2.0. He has served in multiple diplomatic posts and had regular contact with Russian Diplomats. He thinks that Trump is right in his NATO assessment and shares Trumps admiration of the Soviets leadership skills and dedication to country. Here is a sample:

On Russia. Trump is right.

There is no reason for inevitably bad relations with Moscow. Trump is right that NATO is a joke, at least the way it is presently organized and funded. We need to rethink NATO and come up with a new security alliance that includes, yes--horrors!--Russia. Yes, Russia should be our ally. Let's be blunt. There's nothing wrong with having this large powerful Christian (Oops! Said the "C" word) country with a skillful military and world class intel service on our side when fighting the 1400-year war with Islam. The Russians understand invasions and the threat from Islam pretty well.

Meanwhile, of course, the progs will scream about their own patriotism and promote the liars of Black Lives Matter . . .

Read the whole post here: http://www.thediplomad.com/2016/07/the-left-discovers-russia.html

[George Rebane]

Forgot to mention that this post has a 31jul16 update.

[Bill Tozer]

https://www.facebook.com/UncleSamsMisguidedChildren.Net/photos/a.169953786533962.1073741830.169676909894983/529694097226594/?type=3&theater

Right on time. Just glanced at a headline and Hillary says that voter questions about trust are "fair"!, lol. Been waiting for that one. They had trying that out two months ago on a townhall to see it if could work. Her campaign was most pleased. Now that the race to the finish line is on, she came out and said it to a much larger audience.

Here is how it works: when confronted by questions of lying, trustworthiness, corruption, maleficence, etc...the response is to acknowledge "that is a fair question". That's all you get. Just the acknowledgement of that is a fair question, followed by spin, avoidance, lies, change the topic, minimization of her part, blah, blah, blah. That will be her answer. The answer is "that is a fair question." That is the entire answer, lol.

Here is so groundwork for a future comment for a future post:
Hillary Rodman Clinton is a Neo-Con that will take us into a needless avoidable unnecessary forgein engagement with blood spilt on the ground. And I am not talking Russia. She was too eager to jump into Libya, way too eager to jump into Syria, too eager to meddle in Egypt. I am scared shitless that Hillary will take us to another Vietnam type conflict. it really does concern me. Trump can negotiate with Russia from a position of power to avoid ugliness and have peace. Easy stuff. Hillary will negotiate from a position of weakness to achieve power...through force. She is a NEO-CON.

[Bill Tozer]

I think the bigger question of the Wikileaks dump is : Why isn't the FBI and the FEC investigating the DNC and the Clinton Campaign into unchallenged allegations of interfering and meddling with an election instead of who spilled the beans. But, that's just me.

[Bill Tozer]

The substance of the debate is missing concerning Russia, Trump, NATO, and the media. Interviewee posed serious questions.

http://truthfeed.com/video-cnn-anchor-absolutely-destroyed-by-russian-expert-who-sides-with-trump/14350/

[Account Deleted]

First: The Trump connection with Mother Russia is completely overblown. Does he have business connections with Russian companies? Very likely as would most everyone in the US with large holdings. Dem and Rep.
Is there any proof that Trump some how is in cahoots with Putin? None that I've seen.
His comments about the Russian govt and Hil's missing emails is available for anyone to see on the internet.
The lefts' spittle blowing hysteria about those comments are absurd.
Next: Russia as an ally. I'd rather make friends with a rattlesnake. Yes, they are a country with formidable power and we need to dialogue with them constantly to work towards compatible goals.
Having said that - they are hardly a Christian nation in the sense that their govt is somehow guided by Christian beliefs. The govt is rampant with corruption and guile. Their economy is still largely directed and abetted by the govt and it doesn't look good, long term or short term. So expansionism and nationalism will be the main attraction to divert the Russian proles from their internal problems. That will rarely intersect with our nation's (or the world's) best interests. I really have no good handle on how The Donald would deal with this issue.
We already have seen Hillary's competence re Russia - she blew it completely.
Both Hillary and The Donald have their personal wealth to consider. How much they will consider their own wealth against our nation's interest is a nutter's worst guess.
Thanks for asking.

[Paul Emery]

George

Care to compare the Economy of 2008 when Bush left power and 2016 when Obama leaves office ?

[Account Deleted]

Sure, Paul -
(CBS News) 'The National Debt has now increased more during President Obama's three years and two months in office than it did during 8 years of the George W. Bush presidency.

The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office.

The latest posting from the Bureau of Public Debt at the Treasury Department shows the National Debt now stands at $15.566 trillion. It was $10.626 trillion on President Bush's last day in office, which coincided with President Obama's first day.

The National Debt also now exceeds 100% of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, the total value of goods and services.

Mr. Obama has been quick to blame his predecessor for the soaring Debt, saying Mr. Bush paid for two wars and a Medicare prescription drug program with borrowed funds.'
Oh, wait - that's old news
It just gets better.
http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/a/National-Debt-by-Year.htm
When Bush left office, our natl debt was less than 70% of GDP (annually). It is now greater than our yearly GDP.
Wages across the board have fallen in actual buying power since Obama has taken office as well.
What's not to like?

[Gregory]

I'd be less bothered by the debt were the deficits growing the economy more than the debt... borrowing a Billion to get a three Billion bump is one thing, borrowing a Trillion to turn it into a half Trillion is something else entirely, and is what we've been getting.

Making economic growth even worse is the Green Energy directives by AGW believers that forces the use of more expensive energy; cheap(er) energy is the driver of modern civilization and has been since James Watt improved the efficiency of steam engines and jump started the industrial age... being forced to use more expensive energy sources is a tax we all bear.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 1055pm – Not a problem as long as you don’t go into your tired tirade of putting the whole thing on the W’s shoulders who worked with a very profligate Democrat Congress during the last two years of his term. In fact you can do it yourself by comparing the last 7.5 year performance of –

- GDP growth
- Per capita GDP
- Workforce participation
- Wages
- Business taxes and regulations
- Workforce education
- National debt
- Budget share of entitlements
- Destruction of healthcare
- World Index of Business Freedom

And to get a better handle of what recovery means, please revisit
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2014/06/the-recovery-rigmarole.html

[fish]

Posted by: George Rebane | 01 August 2016 at 08:43 AM

Careful George.....you're about to get hit with a "How Much Better Obama is Polling at this point in his Presidency" poll.

[Bill Tozer]

Fish, Obama's numbers are up simply because he hadn't done anything for the past year...besides the usual stuff that the media buries like executive orders that mean "nothing to see here."

Someone should point Paul to the little fact that homeownership is today at the lowest level since 1965. Hmm. Once had a 65 Ford Fairlane and no, it does not seem like yesterday.

[Paul Emery]

George

Here's one look at comparing Bush and Obama economic performance of

Bush vs. Obama: Private Sector Job Creation
Bush vs. Obama: Unemployment Rate
Bush vs. Obama: Corporate Profits

https://ourfuture.org/20141208/bush-vs-obama-on-the-economy-in-3-simple-charts

[Paul Emery]

Sure Fish lets do that comparison

Obama rough average job performance 2016-52%

Bush average job performance 2007-31%

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 01 August 2016 at 12:29 PM

It is interesting why "Mr. Pox upon both their houses" breathlessly reports favorability numbers of a person not running for office. Insights?

[fish]

CAMPAIGN FOR AMERICAS FUTURE

Looking at the site and the "who we are" section....you'll forgive me if I treat them as a biased source.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 1226pm - Without getting into the numbers, I draw your attention to the campaign copy of Sanders, Kaine, and Hillary, all of whom agree with Americans of both parties that the economy continues to stink after the Obama recovery which is primarily celebrated by, wait for it, ... Barack Hussein Obama! And all of them promise to work hard to make it better.

It's hard to talk yourself out of the most expensive and futile government stimulus in the country's history giving rise to the most tepid of (non)recoveries on record not witnessed by about 100M middle class workers while companies employing labor saving technologies and engaging world markets are indeed making good money, but nothing to write home about (don't be fooled by nominal dollar sums).

I'd love to see Hillary/Kaine start quoting your linked data to their constituents, and see how far that gets them. But we can rejoice in that both parties have found common ground in their assessment of the state of our economy.

[Bill Tozer]

Paul, it's me, Bill Tozer.

Off Topic,
I am with you on some things, like a fair press. Let the chips fall where they may. Looks like your Democracy Now! has the balls to report the facts. These are Assange hacked e-mails, not Russian hacked. Reveals Hillary's secret plans to arm jihadists one year before Benghazi.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/07/julian-assange-hacked-emails-include-info-hillarys-arming-jihadists-including-isis-syria/

Now the question is: where is the MSM? Instead of focusing on what Trump did not say, shouldn't we report about what a Pakistani (trained in Saudi Arabia) to use Muslim minorities in Western Nations to promote Sharia Law, aka Muslim Brotherhood agent, aka, Khizr Khan. Go Democracy Now!
*note: not done translating documents from Arabic...will provide details later...full plate today as I convelance.

Hillary will lead us to war in the Middle East. Trump does not want a war in the Middle East. Trump is even willing to make nice even with that bloodthirsty monster Putin to have peace and avoid war. I hate war. Skirmishes ok, battles ok, war not ok. Paul, we are on the same side...rejoice!

[Paul Emery]

George

Obama inherited the worst economic situation since the Great Depression. It's fair to say that it's a respectable comparison that our economy went from grave (Bush 08) to bad (Obama 16) How about comparing the state of the economy when Bush started his term (2001) and when Obama took office in 2008.

Also Obama had to inherit the costs of the failed war in Iraq, something Bush didn't have to deal with. At least Trump acknowledges that war was a massive mistake even calls Bush a liar in deceiving the American people into believing there was a grave danger from WMD's.

To make it simple if you were President what economy would you rather inherit that left by Clinton's (okay Gingrich) or Bush's or Obama's for that matter.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 01 August 2016 at 07:37 PM

.....and all it took was more money than has ever been conjured in the history of mankind.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 737pm - Is there a point to your line of questioning? I'm not sure how such comparisons can lead to an interesting conclusion. Perhaps if stipulate some of these conclusions along with their antecedents, then the exercise may evoke interest. Otherwise it looks like you're just fishing for another tenuous 'gotcha' accompanied by even more tenuous predicates in the offing.

[Gregory]

Paul (7:37) let's remember Bush II was greeted with 9/11 and that took a big chunk out of the economy overnight. On Sept 12, 2001, no one thought another airliner (or its explosive equivalent) could be kept from the US.

In short, Bush didn't preside over a bowl of peaches and cream, and let's also remember the economy Obama inherited was tanked by the collapse of a financial sector taken down by bad financial paper produced by the Democratic Bobsy twins, Fannie and Freddie, pushed off the cliff by Pelosi and Reid who had two years to put a lid on those relics of the New Deal. Obama was handed majorities in the House and Senate in his first two terms as the electorate bought the story it was all Bush's fault, only to lose the House and the Speakership for his party when voters recoiled in 2010 from the "We have the votes, fuck em'" mentality in the Oval Office.

May you live in interesting times.