Election 2016 Fallout

[Mr Norm Sauer is a retired attorney, member of The Union Editorial Board, and a regular columnist for the newspaper.  He submitted the following article to RR and The Union which also published it today (here).  In this piece Mr Sauer reflects on the election's aftermath and its portents; it is posted as received.  gjr]

Norm Sauer

“Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” (Declaration of Independence, 1776)

On November 8, 2016, Americans withdrew their consent to being governed by the elite globalists.  The presidential election was America’s Brexit.

Aside from the coastal states, the Democrats and Hillary were crushed.  Michael Barone reported in the Washington Examiner, 11/9/16, “The heartland—roughly the area from the Appalachian ridges to the Rocky Mountains, with about two-thirds of the national vote—went 52–44 percent for Trump.”

Voters turned over the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, and about two-thirds of the nation’s governorships and half the state legislatures to Republicans.

Nationalism: The American people this election cycle were clearly nationalistic. They felt a bond with their country, believing citizens should love their country and that government is duty-bound to protect its own people. 

Voters rejected the belief that comfortable, sexually satisfied consumerism, wedded to gauzy notions of universal brotherhood was all people wanted, thus undermining the drive by the governing elite to integrate world markets, merge populations across borders, and dissolve the sovereignty of our nation.

Trump’s offer of the nation-state and ideas of greatness were more than what liberalism was offering.  Voters stopped worrying what was good for other countries and decided it was time to worry about what was good for America.

President-elect Trump: Trump has shown he is one of the greatest intuitive political geniuses in history. 

As a wealthy businessman with no political experience, he prevailed over more than a dozen experienced politicians and won the presidential nomination of a major party.  He then ran an unconventional campaign and managed to become the president-elect of the most powerful nation on earth.  His was an astonishing accomplishment.

In winning, Trump beat back a hostile press, smears by his opponents, outrage by foreign leaders, vast campaign spending by Wall Street and the wealthy one-percent, as well as vows by actors and rock stars to leave the country if he was elected president.

Working to create or keep jobs, he has already kept from moving to Mexico Ford’s SUV facility in Louisville, Kentucky and over a thousand jobs with Carrier in Indianapolis, Indiana.  Seemingly tireless, he is out front and does not ‘lead from behind.’

Media bias:  Main-stream media was the establishment committed to making Americans believe their elite lies.  They laughed at Trump, told us he could never win the nomination, nor did he have a chance to win the presidential election.

On November 8, Trump and American voters rejected media’s fabricated world.  Having lost the people’s respect, journalists must learn they need humility, objectivity, impartiality, and elimination of group-think.

The Clintons: After all her years of preparation, the millions of dollars raised, the numerous endorsements, and the multiple consultants it wasn’t enough to put Hillary in the White House.  “All the queen’s horses and all the queen’s men could not pull Hillary Clinton over the line.” (National Review, p. 14, 12/5/16) 

Her criminal violation(s) of national security, pay to play through the Clinton Foundation, chronic lying, exposure by WikiLeaks, and lack of message to voters worried about jobs and health care, doomed her.  

Trump’s win means the end of the Clintons’ era of corrupt power-brokering.

Obama’s legacy: President Obama was a savvy, charismatic, superb rhetorician who tapped into our white-guilt as a black man and knew how to use his charms to win the White House twice. 

Once in office he slapped down Republican congressional leaders and the American public with an “I won” philosophy and then relentlessly marched forward with innumerable executive actions on a strictly party-line bent to deconstruct America.

But, Obama could not transfer his personal popularity to other Democrats or Hillary.  Consequently, Hillary’s electoral loss was also the loss of Obama’s legacy.

Trump’s win foretells the repeal of the Affordable Care Act and Dodd-Frank, two of Obama’s biggest legislative accomplishments.  Also, Obama’s executive orders on Immigration, environmental rules, and HHS mandates and more, can be reversed with the stroke of President Trump’s pen. The same goes for the Paris Accords on climate and the Iran deal where Senate approval was never sought.

America:  As a result of Obama’s far left globally-focused governance, the American working people screamed “enough.”  The election of Trump as president is a self-correction of our country back to the center-right, to a state of normalcy, and to our country’s exceptional character under which power lies with the people, not the elites.

Comments

[Walt]

If you listen to the Left, they blame everyone but themselves for the loss.
"Russia did it". Has anyone seen ANY credible proof of that? The Left getting beaten at their own game in the election dirty tricks dept.?
Whoever DID spill the beans on Clinton and the Left, did the nation a huge favor. The truth always will find a way out. The truth is the Progressive's worst enemy.
They even keep Pelosi in power.(Those on the Right,, say "Thanks!")

[Account Deleted]

They just don't give up - "It's not FAIR - wahhhhh"
"Hillary was supposed to win, so it must be the Rooskies!!!"
I seem to recall the Dems claiming the emails were fake. What happened to that lie? Are they going to hire Debbie back and apologize to her?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-russia-meddling-us-election-dont-believe-142014369.html
'The New York Times quoted a senior administration officials as saying there was "high confidence" that the Russians hacked both the Democratic and Republican National Committees, but leaked only documents damaging to Clinton through WikiLeaks.'
OK - what are the damaging documents from the Rs?
As if I'm going to put much credence in the NYTs quoting an Obama official.
And right on cue, there's going to be a 'thorough investigation'.
Right - like the ones for Benghazi and Hillary's email server in her home.
Of course, those little incidences were just Russian meddling, right?

[Bill Tozer]

Even if the Russians hacked the e-mails, the Russians did not write the e-mails. No doubt from my uninformed perspective the Chinese, Russians, Germans, Israelis, French, friend and foe alike were in Hillary's laughably undersecured computers and servers.

Now, who wrote the e-mails? That is the elephant in the room that is neatly avoided.
Blame the election results on the FBI Director? If you don't want to the FBI involved in the election, don't nominate someone who is under FBI criminal investigation(s). There were two criminal investigations.

If you didn't want the FBI (a solely investigative agency) to make the call about prosecution, then don't have our Attorney General recuse herself after getting caught red handed spending a private one on one with the target's husband.,

Before I even knew who and which Republicans would run for office in 2016 a few years back, I figured there was only one crack in the fortress wall to have even the slightest chance of beating Hillary. That one flaw was simple: Hillary is not Bill Clinton.

Bill's surrogates and supporters were and still are highly loyal to Bill Clinton. They were not as loyal or enthusiastic about his wife, Hillary. I witnessed this after her loss to Obama. Several top dogs on Hillary's team not only did not give it 100% to back her, some even disliked her as a person. That proved true in 2016, which had less of the ole Friends of Bill on board than in 2008.

What was Hillary's economic policy? Raise the estate tax and raise taxes on the rich to pay for those who do not work. What was her foreign policy? A no-fly zone in Syria. What was her immigration policy? What was her biggest domestic policy? Expand paid family leave and subsidized student loans. Job creation? Crime?

There are numerous factors to point to why Hillary lost or why Trump won. Why did Hillary lose? She was a bad candidate and she had a stunning lack of message. Strike that. Her only message down the stretch was Trump is bad. Trump may be bad, but why did Trump win? His message was clear. America First. The candidate made the hugely important connection with the hearer. As Joe Piscopo remarked after Trump let him speak at a rally, "I felt it myself.. It was a movement, not a machine."

The fallout of 2016 appears to be the utter refutation and demolition of the direction President Obama took the country. Obama made our country less secure, less prosperous, and less optimistic. It wasn't about Hillary. It was Obama's ideology that gave the wide opening for Trump to pass through. And Hillary purposely positioned herself to be unseperatable from Obama.

Remember, it was corrupt Democrats that wrote the e-mails, not the Russians.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/760550214095203/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/974091319391572/?type=3&theater

[Paul Emery]

Bill if a political campaign took advantage of letters stolen from a mailbox or from Illegal wiretaps would you considers that ethical?

[Walt]

Paul. The Left doesn't give a crap about "ethics". If they did, Hillary would be in jail, and put there by her own party.
Repubs do have ethics.(at least they used to.) It wasn't the DEMS that chased Nixon from office. The was Repub "ethics" at work.
Was what Eric the With-Holder did (and didn't) do ethical? How bout the monkeyshines of Loretta Lynch? Meeting with Bill Clinton was sure ethical,,, wasn't it?

And even now the only ones saying "Russia" did it, are "un-named sources".

It looks more like an inside job.

[Paul Emery]

Walt
If a political campaign took advantage of letters stolen from a mailbox or from Illegal wiretaps would you considers that ethical? How about breaking into someones home or business for the same end. Doesn't matter f the Russians did it. Was it ethical to use stolen material for political advantager?

[Paul Emery]

George

Do you have a chime on this matter?

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery, so what is your position on this? If the emails are hacked but show illegal activity, is it ethical to release the info on the illegal activity? Or just toss them?

[Don Bessee]

'Was it ethical to use stolen material for political advantage?' HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHH!!!! Didn't hear any sniveling when wickileaks did the Snowden dump or how about the Pentagon Papers? The dems have not denied the authenticity of the content, elections have lots of moving parts and some deliver too much unintended truth, you know like; TRUMP WON! ;-)

[Paul Emery]

I say it's unethical to take advantage of stolen material. What is your view? Much of the information was not necessarily illegal but revealing of typical political intrigue. Besides nothng is illegal until proven by a jury after an indictment. Remember "innocent till proven guilty"

what exactly was illegal in your mind and has their been any arrests?

Todd in your view is it ethical to use stolen material for political advantage?

[Bill Tozer]

Paul, I did not see the Republicans hacking anything.nor did they distribute the DNC/Hillary Campaign e-mails between various parties as far as I know. The stolen e-mails were put on the internet by Wikileaks for many many media sources, internet sites, and indivuals to download and read as they pleased.

Did Trump quote the e-mails? Yes. Did I? Yes. Did not all of the e-mails that made the light of day contain just chatter between campaign staffers, CNN, ABC, MSNBC, and a few Clinton PACs? Yes.

Did the stolen e-mails made any difference on the election results? No. A big fat no. Americans had had enough and they opened their windows, hung their heads out, and screamed as loud as they could, "I'm mad as hell and I am not going take it anymore!"
-----Or as Norm wrote:America: As a result of Obama’s far left globally-focused governance, the American working people screamed “enough.” ------

Stolen e-mails made zero difference in the big picture. Even the most embarrassing ones about the sleazy slush fund non-profit Foundation only confirmed what we already knew: The Clinton's became very rich.
Now, e-mails released under FOIA did make a difference to some, but they were redacted and released by our own gov't in accordance with the law. The Deplorable comments were captured on Spanish TV (unknown to most) as well as an audio of her pitch to donors two days later.

So, was it ethical? Ask Bernie. The most damagingstolen e-mails hurt Bernie the most, not Hillary. Blame DNC Debbie for that unethical behavior. Hmmmm. Wasn't DNC Debbie Hillary's co-campaign chairperson in 2008 none other than DNC Debbie?

Unethical ? Only if you blame Bush. Hey Paul, you wrote clearly and unequivocally on RR that Julian Assange was a "hero". I remember than well. Blame your hero, Mr. Assange. At least he did not illegally steal Trump's tax returns and publish them in the NYT and was used repeatedly used by Hillary several times in more than one debate to hammer her political opponent. That was unethical.

[Paul Emery]

Todd

If I am accusing you of a illegal activity am I justified is stealing your mail to prove my contention?

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery, if a third party steals some emails revealing illegality or unethical behavior do you reveal them?

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery, can you cite the laws against hacking a political email server?

[Paul Emery]

Is that your contention Todd? That means we can hire people to illegally steal from our opponents private information if it is contended that it is illegal. Keep in mind the material was stolen before it's contents were revealed. Are we in agreement that thee information was indeed stolen?

[Account Deleted]

Poor Paul - clinging to a lone thread of hope that there is still a chance that Hillary just might still win.
Paul loves to ask questions but will never answer directly if at all.
Look Paul, most American voters didn't have one damn clue about most of what was in the Wiki leaks. All they cared about was the fact that Obama lied and lied and Hillary promised more of the same. I doubt things will improve much for the American worker with Trump because a lot of what is happening in the work force would happen anyway, no matter who sits in the Oval Office.
But please, Paul, for goodness sake stop making a total jackass out of yourself with this pious BS about hacked emails. Are you going to say we should not have read or distributed any of the Pentagon Papers?
Innocent until proven guilty? What was Tricky Dick ever convicted of?
Bernie complained over and over about irregularities in the conduct of the DNC. The emails simply proved his point. Why don't you scold Bernie about using the info from the leaked emails? Why did the DNC get rid of Debbie if the emails were not to be used? What crime was Debbie ever convicted of? Yet Paul blows all of this off and cries about the Rs. The Rs didn't engage in anything illegal. The Russians didn't do anything to change the election results.

[Don Bessee]

There was an indictment in both the cases of Snowden and Daniel Ellsberg of the pentagon papers. You are still squealing about this one and were cheering Snowden and likely the pentagon papers. By the way, President Trump WON! ;-)

[Paul Emery]

It's illegal to hack email under any circumstances. Can you show me under what circumstances where it is legal to steals someones email information without a search warrant? Also Todd howis that different from stealing mail from a mailbox?

[Walt]

Paul, what Hillary did was illegal,, how come she still walks free? LIBS will never jail LIBS. Care to speak of the "ethics" of that?
If you want to go down the road of "ethics", and what is "legal", Most of the elected LIBS
should be behind bars today.
I know,, I know... It's OK when a Liberal does it.

As for your,, "If a political campaign took advantage of letters stolen from a mailbox or from Illegal wiretaps",, Really????? There are FED laws about messing with mailboxes. You should know that. Do tell where "illegal wiretaps" have been used. (Good GOD man....)

So we should have fully ignored the facts and voted for Hillary... "Just because".... Right?

You can ignore the facts that have come out about the cooking of books on AGW. Falsifying
GOV. documents is also a crime. I don't see you bitching about that. NASA and NOAA have been caught doing just that. Now get on your soap box and whine about those "ethics".

[Paul Emery]

So Walt no problem to you in using stolen correspondence for political gain. Just wanted to make that clear.

Scott

I voted for Gary Johnson not Hillary.

Also Tricky Dick was pardoned by Ford so whats the point.

[Don Bessee]

Is that PE shilling for madam liar liar pantsuits on fire to get a pardon from 0? ;-)

[Bill Tizer]

So Paul, blame the hackers.

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery, You have not supplied the law that says it is illegal to hack a political person's email. Do you have one or not?

[Bill Tizer]

Paul is acting like somebody hacked his computer, lol. It wasn'the me. Not surprised that Paul is mum on Trump's stolen tax returns taken illegally and published in the NYC. Crickets. Guess he first asked about ethics, now it's legality. Now we are safe. The left will never as about the morality of the situation. It's all relative, lol. Paul, you have the liberal affiction.

[Walt]

So what's worse Paul? The lying criminalistic behaviour of an elected politician being protected by another lying son of a bitch with an important gov. title, or the "improper"
mode of distribution of their treasonous ways?

[Todd Juvinall]

BillT you have nailed the hypocrite. Nothing about all the crapola made up on Trump and the DNC fake news about him. Just the DNC and Hillary are Paul's concern. Kinda makes me think he is lying about a vote for Johnson.

[Bill Tizer]

Opps. The left will never ASK about morality. Yes, go ahead and lay the groundwork for impeachment. Paul reminds me of those jailhouse lawyers, aka, inmates, aka "It was the other dude" defense. Miminize your gigantic faults, exaggerate the other dude's shortcomings.

Time for a new playback, Mr. Paul. We already know exactly what you will say next. Illegimate!!!! It's illegimate!!

[Don Bessee]

The historical realities of election dirty tricks seems to have eluded KVMR's news guy. It was ok to release Trumps taxes since it was the NYT and the 'progressive' thing to do, right? Face it PE the sack of back stabbing snakes that is the DNC did ol' Bernie every which way but loose and conspired to steal the election with their house slaves in the 'press'. You are sounding like you are singing the approved party line song PE. Perhaps that tired old song would play better in the Dark Lords Liberal Lament Land. RR is not an uneducated voter website so the song is old and sounds flat. ;-)

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/10/17/first-amendment-experts-downloading-clinton-campaign-emails-not-a-crime/

[George Rebane]

PaulE 348pm - I don't think you are correctly representing what happened, and then going on to ignore what journalists and politicians have been doing since age immemorial. The purloined emails were published in the public domain. Their source was not known, nor has evidence been presented to this day as to their source. The emails clearly made their authors and higher ups culpable of being first rate sleazebags. The authenticity of the emails has never been denied or brought into question - no one would perjure themselves since copies of the emails exist in other repositories.

The only thing you guys on the Left have to harp upon is some never before practiced code of la-la-land 'ethics'. The fact of the matter is that the real unethical behavior relating to Democrats was revealed in the emails, about which the Left (including you) are understandably silent. It would have been butt stupid for the Repubs to have ignored this wonderful treasure trove that was placed in the world's lap, for it revealed to all the nature of the beast and gave voters one more measure of it.

[Bill Tizer]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth. The Children of Israel got in trouble when they started complaining about the mana falling from heaven. Lord have mercy on their ungrateful souls.

[Walt]

Hay Paul,,, "Russia" ? Then why the Democrat, mob style hit of a mole?
http://www.inquisitr.com/3402098/seth-rich-murdered-for-leaking-dnc-emails-julian-assange-suggests-that-dnc-staffer-shot-to-death-was-a-wikileaks-source/
What did I say earlier about an inside job?

[Walt]

WOW!! A conservative artist ? Gotta love his style. Hay Paul. Get this guy to do some
art in Nevada City.
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/11/trump-themed-star-wars-posters-featuring-milo-spotted-around-rogue-one-premier-area/

[Bill Tizer]

Walt more proof that we answer to a higher calling.

[Account Deleted]

Paul once again plays the troll - demands answers to his questions and answers none himself.
Trump won, Paul - so what's your point?

[Don Bessee]

Walt 847 :-)

[Paul Emery]

George would your response be the same if the messages were stolen letters taken from a mailbox?

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

Moral or not?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/smoke/readings/wienerarticle.html

[BradC]

Trumper reality check,

http://www.gq.com/story/this-guy-gets-it

[Todd Juvinall]

Hey I have a new respect for George Boardman. He stuck to his guns about the 47 million dollar bond for the schools. And he took the schools to task for raising the fees for new construction. The school official did the ropa-dope answer to that. Oh if we don't raise the fees we woun't be eligible for state money yada yada yada. My goodness these school admins are just typical politicians. Gotta protect their "money" at all costs. Anyway, GB took them to task. Go George!

[Account Deleted]

Thanks for the link, Brad. Total left wing lunatic.
"Immigrants are taking coal jobs".
No one is claiming that, but straw man arguments are the left's stock in trade.
Hillary promised to shut down the coal industry and throw thousands out of work.
If coal is truly the more costly energy under a free market system, there's no need to have the govt shut down production.
A national $15 an hour wage would savage the low wage job market. Even more jobs would be off-shored or replaced by cheaper automation.
Any time the govt steps in to decide the value of goods or wages, our freedoms are lessoned and the economy suffers. Once you give the govt the power to dictate the monetary terms of financial transactions, you have given it the power to run your life.

[fish]

From the always invaluable Instapundit.....

FLASHBACK: Remember When the Russians Hacked the White House’s Computers? “While we pounded away at the story, the White House refused to respond to our inquiries. The Washington press corps, which must have known that the White House’s computers were out of action, maintained a discreet silence, declining to write about the Russian hack, even though many D.C. reporters no doubt followed the story on Power Line. Why the coy silence? Because it was October 2014, weeks before the midterm elections, and the story reflected poorly on the Obama administration, which didn’t even discover the intrusion itself. It turned out that American officials were alerted to the Russian hack of the White House and State Department by an unidentified ally (I’m guessing Israel).”

Likewise, the extremely serious Chinese personnel-records hack got very little attention. But that’s because neither of these events was connected with Democrats losing power. That’s what it takes to get the press upset.

Money quote in bold at the end!

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/12/remember-when-the-russians-hacked-the-white-houses-computers.php

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/06/14/federal-records-hack-china-pearl-harbor-column/71210018/

[George Rebane]

PaulE 1127pm – Perhaps you did not understand my 729pm answer. It doesn’t matter who from where placed those emails into the global public domain. Their unquestioned contents exposed virulent and despicable characters in our country’s political life and leadership. For the opposition to use that information to bolster its case for rejecting such people was not only ethical, it was their duty. To have sought to bury the information (a la Team Hillary) was unethical.

But for completeness I should also point out that your mail box example is not a functional equivalent of hacking email servers. Stolen snail mail never reaches its addressees. I assume what you meant to describe was someone taking the snail mail, scanning its contents, and returning the mail to the mailbox where it was received by its unalerted recipients – then later posting those contents in the public domain. In either case it doesn’t matter since the thief and the subsequent readers/interpreters of the message contents were different people acting in totally different legal contexts.

[fish]

Sweet, Sweet music....!

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/cnns-stelter-trump-win-national-emergency/

[L]

Just a week ago, the MSM was everywhere complaining about 'fake news stories', and this week they're spreading yet another example. There's no there, there. L

[Todd Juvinall]

The Washington Post is spreading more fake news today. They are shameless.The Russians are coming! What a hoot!

[Bill Tozer]

My my. Good link, Mr. Fish. After hearing that MSM (yawn) played the endless loop all weekend long, one has to look at motivation.

Too early to prove at the present time, but I have an inkling to the motivation behind the PAC's and Dem fundraisers and media' joining together at the Wailing Wall. They lost fair and square. But they must justify their existence. It is their livihood at stake, their status, their life mission, and nobody else will hire them. The show is going on without them. Have you seen the job market lately? What will they do now?

"Oh no Mr. Bill, what are we going to do? Suddenly we have nothing to do!! What shall we do to remain revelant, to keep all those cards and letters coming? By Jove, I got it. Recount!, yeah that will get the money flowing. That will stir the pot."

Well, the recount sputtered. By Jove, I got it! The Russians influenced the elections! They must be stopped. Conflagulate Russians hacking and evil and stealing an election.....not just any election, but the most horrible terrible election in the history of the World....that Trump...oh, we can't even say it....that Trump won. He cheated!!!

No proof that the "Mad Russian" hackers were nearly as successful as journalists are in distorting reality...yet. Ok, I will say that the Rooskies tried to influence an election through propaganda. But not to the extent that Obama tried to influence the Israeli elections. Need not matter. Rally the troops! The Russians did it! Quick, send money to carry the fight all the way to Dec. 19th....then Jan. 20th, then....keep those cards and letters and stories coming. Emergency, Emergency, Danger Will Robinson, Danger.

Check motivation.

[BradC]

More fake news,

https://www.ncscooper.com/local-conspiracy-theorist-santa-claus-is-not-real/

[fish]

Posted by: BradC | 12 December 2016 at 10:19 AM

Now Brad you should know better than linking to anything scooper related.......you'll get a certain local all spun up about his jilting by your local fish rag!

[Norm Sauer]

With respect to George's 8:52am comment: "To have sought to bury the information (a la team Hillary) was unethical," consider the following: "WikiLeak’s disclosures were buried by CBS, NBC, and ABC morning and evening shows between October 7 and 13 which spent 4 hours 13 minutes on Trump alleged sex assaults versus 36 minutes on various WikiLeaks’ disclosures during one week."

[Bill Tozer]

Motivation? At first I thought fake news was coming from Hillary. Next, I thought it was coming from Lamestream Media. After that, I thought it was coming from the White House. Now I know it's all the same.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/12/12/sore-loser-obama-turns-to-russian-hacking-to-delegitimize-trumps-triumph.html

Looks like Obama is undermining the sanctity of the election.

It's illegimate!

[Gregory]

The NY Times was very pious over WikiLeaks... stolen information, unethical to use. They were also very pious over the Climategate emails... stolen information, unethical... except many experts still believe it was an insider who leaked the Climategate files because of the many ethical breaches.

However, those ethics went out the window when it came to Trump's old income tax return, stolen and illegal under federal law to publish. Or the Trump videotape... recorded illegally... can't record private conversations in California.

Regarding the supposed sexual assaults, that's a false narrative. If a woman "lets you" grab her fun parts, that's by definition consensual. It helps to be filthy rich (or on your way to becoming filthy rich) if you're looking for easy consent.

I asked a woman whose fun parts I'd grabbed in the past if I could grab them, and her answer... if you ask, the answer is no. More, I will not say. :)

[Paul Emery]

George

To make it simple Trump took advantage of stolen private information for his own gain and purposes. That certainly brings into question his ethics and character. What information, by the way does he possess that the CIA does not have about the involvement of Putin and the Russians in the acquisition and distribution of this material and how did he acquire that information.

[Gregory]

Paul 11:01

It was no longer private information, Paul.

So, if an unauthorized release of information takes place and, overnight, it gets chiseled into Mt. Rushmore, anyone looking at Mt. Rushmore has to promise to ignore the information? No, once the information is common knowledge, there is no ethical breach in using the information. Doubly so if it's an email that was erased rather than disclosed according to a lawful subpoena.

Not even Clinton is charging Trump with cyberthefts.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 1101am - We truly live in different worlds. BTW, the advantage that Trump took also benefited the entire nation, and continues to do so to this day. Thanks for making it simple, however a reread of my 852am may be warranted.

Your second question supposes an assertion that Trump never made, but has been made a lot over the last days by people who think like you. What, pray, has the CIA - as opposed to mysterious spokesmen, yellow journalists, and agenda driven politicians - released to the media about the Russians. Trump just doubts the reports about alleged CIA conclusions until more information arrives.

[Bill Tozer]

Well, Sister Theresa was not on the ballot, neither was Peter, Paul, and Mary. Now, if only Col. Sanders gave a damn about those e-mails, he might have crushed Crooked Hillary.

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10154254470340914/?type=3&theater

[Paul Emery]

So Gregory you have no problem with Trump using information that the Russians stole and provided to influence the election in his favor. that's according to 17 US intelligence agencies.

"The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities."

[Gregory]

Let's be clear... as far as I can tell... the only information we have as to what the CIA knows, or doesn't know, is that a WaPo reporter says someone in the CIA told them so, and the NY Times has repeated it. No actual report, no one who stakes their name to the validity of the report.

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/10/anonymous-leaks-to-the-washpost-about-the-cias-russia-beliefs-are-no-substitute-for-evidence/

Believe it or not, there are partisan Democrats in the CIA. There are also people in the CIA who, despite being properly non-partisan, who are just wrong.

[Paul Emery]

So what information does Trump have to dispute the 17 Agencies cited above and how did he obtain it? the quote above is not from the WA Po but directly from Intelligence agencies. Of course Trump is "too smart" to bother attending intellibence breifings.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

[Todd Juvinall]

I have not seen a definitive report the Russians did anything. What are you citing? And remember these departments are run by Obama minions.

[Gregory]

Paul, if that was a release from the Bush II (or Bush I) administration, you'd be more skeptical than I am.

Hint: "consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts" means they don't have anything solid. Best guess. Sure looks like it.

Now, how many of those hacked emails made public... were fraudulent? I know of not a single bit of information that has been denounced as false. Not the reports of Donna Brazile passing "town hall" questions to Hillary, not the efforts of the DNC to derail Bernie S. Nothing.

Now, tell me with a straight face that you think Hillary's home brewed server, connected to the internet and storing bona fide top secret information, wasn't a target? This brings us back to the criminal negligence at the heart of the Hillary matter.

[Don Bessee]

Here is another chance for PE to do the cricket dance. Why do you only care now when the 0 administration has been hacked for its entire tenure and did nothing about it? DOD personnel files with security backgrounds, Pentagon, over and over and over, WH, every major defense contractor and so on. How about some indignation at the utter failure to mitigate these ongoing efforts from many state actors by the 0 administration.
Oh, I forgot, those FACTS do not fit your lame party line narrative that has no facts, only WAG's (wild ass guesses). ;-)

[Paul Emery]

Todd

Read my 11:51 link for the answer to your question

[Todd Juvinall]

I did there is nothing in it that is concrete. Get real Paul.

[Bill Tozer]

Well, if the Russians have the 33,000 lost Hillary e-mails, they haven't turned them over yet. Paul is just upset cause some of those local unpaid DJ's with funny accents might get deported for extending their stay beyond the terms and conditions (signed) of their visas. No visible means of support.
This is what happens when we elect an anti-establishment outsider to office.
Yep, Trump is a bad boy. It is so refreshing. Bust their balls, Citizen Trump. Rip the flesh off their faces. You get down on your bad self, Mr. Bad Trump. I am sooooo upset.

Hey Paul, why don't you write a nice Letter to the Editor about someone jaywalking or gasp!, spitting on the sidewalk. I heard someone lit up a cig behind KVMR. Call 911. It was me!

Now, let's see what Paul's mentor has to say on this horrific topic.

https://www.facebook.com/JoeTalkShow/photos/a.10150167237660019.423328.106854275018/10154693530405019/?type=3&theater

[Paul Emery]

Gregory

I didn't vote for Hillary why should I be defending her? You didn't vote for Trump but you sure seem to be his saddle pal.

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery we don't believe you did not vote for Hillary. For goodness sake, all year you have defended her and the democrats. And trashed Trump. Sorry, we know you.

[Paul Emery]

Voted for Gary Johnson Todd.

[Paul Emery]

Todd

this isn't "concrete?"

The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process.

[Bill Tozer]

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/760925137391044/?type=3&theater

[Walt]

Paul.. Why is your ass baboon red that the truth got out? I bet you wouldn't as peeved if all the emails painted Trump as a raper of barnyard animals.Something tells me you would be singing a different tune, and how someone did the nation a favor on exposing it.
That vote for Johnson really paid dividends... Didn't it?

[Don Bessee]

Hey PE, its nice to see you have gotten over the Bush WMD intel debacle and are in the bag for 0's intel. It must be because 0 has only allowed intel to flow to the WH that fits the narrative, so say many former intel types who have been forced out for failing to tell the emperor he has nice clothes. ISIS is a jv team is the sum of 0's message consistent intel. I know one former General who will be telling President Trump the truth, no flim flam from Flynn! ;-)

[Gregory]

We're at the "pal" stage, are we?

Paul, you've been shilling for Hillary since last Winter. Remind me... how many times did you tell me, grinning ear to ear like the Cheshire Cat, that the "Pubbies" were going to be destroyed on the Tuesday following the first Monday in November? Got to cut Trump loose from the ticket else the Grand Old Party be demolished for a generation?

Instead, when the smoke cleared it became clear to all that the GOP was in the best shape it had been in a century. Literally.

What did I tell you? The USC/LA Times Daybreak poll, developed at the RAND Corp, was showing a tight race, they were also tied with being the most right in 2012. So, where were you getting all your nuggets of wisdom? Slate? HuffPo? WaPo? NYT? Not even 538 were so giddy.

Who was most right in 2016?

I'm looking forward to a Scalia clone or two to be appointed to the SCOTUS.

[Walt]

Paul. You got sucked in by LIB "fake news".
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/12/cia-russian-hacking-story-sham/

And Paul,This is the same CIA that supposedly flooded America with cocaine from South America in the '80's and 90's right?

[Todd Juvinall]

"we are confident"? That is your proof? Come on Paul Emery, you were the Bush Derangement Syndrome guy all these years and dissed the WMD stuff from the intelligence community. Now they are your best friends? Jeeze, no wonder no one believes you "journalists".

[Paul emery]

Todd what information do you have that the CIA was wrong and where did you get it.

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul where did you find the information that says unequivocally the Russian hacked the DNC and Podesta? And why are you now believing the intelligence agencies when you trashed them for 12 years?

[George Rebane]

For the interested reader about the CIA thread. The fact that the CIA has made no announcement re Russian involvement, and the reports of it are from second hand sources was first pointed out in my 1120am. This was ignored, and that same barn has now been circled numerous times since. Mr Paul Emery has summoned corps of crickets to respond, and has done a yeoman’s job changing the subject. Now in his 126pm he suddenly asks another commenter to prove a negative - that the CIA was wrong about its non-announcement – which was never asserted. Some people just don’t understand that when someone demands more cogent evidence to make the case, that someone does not then logically assert that the insufficient evidence shows the case to be false. Amazing!

[Gregory]

Paul, where did you find a statement by the CIA on the latest?

There is nothing on the record; the USIC is not the CIA.

The hilarious hypocrisy of Democrats remains... all those pious pleadings for Trump to declare he'd accept the results of the election and the declarations of his refusal to do so being tantamount to tearing down our system of elections.

It's as if Democrats are trying to destroy our village in order to save it. For themselves.

[Walt]

It's only OK when the Left monkeys with elections according to the Paul theroy.
That's what they do. ( And there is PLENTY of proof on that matter.)
So Paul,, are you saying LIBS got beat at their own game?

[Paul Emery]

George

Even Tea Party stalwarts like Joe Walsh are blasting Trump on this one:

"“For Donald Trump to come out and attack our men and women in the CIA, that’s almost treasonous,” Walsh said. “Russia attacks us and Trump attacks the CIA. He ought to be the one calling for an investigation.”

Trump specifically said the CIA was wrong when he said on Fox News "

"President-elect Donald J. Trump said in an interview broadcast on Sunday that he did not believe American intelligence assessments that Russia had intervened to help his candidacy, casting blame for the reports on Democrats, who he said were embarrassed about losing to him.

“I think it’s ridiculous. I think it’s just another excuse,” Mr. Trump said in the interview, on “Fox News Sunday.” “I don’t believe it.”

George

this is pretty specific representing the opinion of the intelligence community. What more do you want?

"The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities."

[George Rebane]

PaulE 154pm - Your quotes say nothing about Trump's assertion that the CIA was wrong - read again the difference between disbelief and asserting falsity. And who stated the lengthy quote referring to the USIC in the third person. Most certainly it was not the USIC issuing such a statement talking about itself. Who are you quoting?

[Walt]

I'm getting Paul a drum of Preparation H for Christmas.
Let's say Paul is right.(just for the sake of argument) Then the Commies did us a favor.
Think of the world of hurt the U.S. would be in if Hillary go coronated.

[Bill Tozer]

This is a perfect time to say not all Gov. Johnson's voters are like Paul. Nah, we must not use the broad brush just because of one misguided poster. In fact, there are at least two Gary Johnson voters who post here frequently that are reasoned and seasoned good fellows. In fact, I would say it did not break their hearts to see Trump win, if only to hear the exploding heads of the arrogant condescending liberals who come here to say "Hee, hee, hee, you're going to lose." I like that popping melon sound myself.

The Johnson voters, besides being fine upstanding college educated men of great wherewithal, also possess the fantastic asset of possessing a sense of humor. Odd, when God passed out sense of humors, for some reason known only to Providence, He did not give liberals a viable sense of humor. Puzzling and beyond my pay grade to gleam an insight. Paul is just an example of this seemingly miscarriage of Justice.

I figured it out. Paul was "I'm With Her" until he read Wikileaks and switched his vote. Mystery solved. He must be mad as hell.

Paul, while I appreciate your passion......

[Paul Emery]

From John McCain

"Responding to intelligence officials’ report that Russia tried to influence the U.S. presidential election in favor of President-elect Donald Trump, Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain (R-Arizona) on Sunday said he doesn’t know what to make of Mr. Trump’s dismissal of the issue.

“I don’t know what to make of it because it’s clear the Russians interfered,” he told CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “Whether they intended to interfere to the degree that they were trying to elect a certain candidate, I think that’s a subject of investigation. But facts are stubborn things. They did hack into this campaign.”

From Lesley Graham

Graham on Tuesday pledged to work with Trump, despite their disagreements, but urged fellow senators to check Trump’s power.

“Clearly me and Donald have issues, and I will do everything I can to help him because he will be commander in chief in dangerous times,” Graham said. “I worry about Russia.”

[Paul Emery]

George

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

[Bill Tozer]

Bottom line: Did Wikileaks influence the outcome of the Election? Did the Pope, the President of Mexico, the President of the United States, the VP, the First Lady, the Chinese, the Zillionaires, the Media, Academia, the Haugue, Metkel, The Prime Minister of Britain or Canada, the Globalists, the International Bankers, the International Corporatists, the Shieks, the Freaks, our enmities, our "friends".........did they influence the outcome of the 2016 election, try as they may????

Did they influence the outcome of the election, did they Wally?????

Answer that question first and foremost. To what extent did stolen e-mails composed exclusively by unethical corrupt sleazebag Democrat Party operatives influence the outcome? Sure, it was just little part of the drip, drip, drip narrative put out by the Republicans and Berners and Libertarians, but all that was dismissed by the MSM and the Democrat Party and hundreds of pundits.

Paul, did stolen e-mails change the minds of 50 voters? Was our national election process compromised? Was it a game changer? In theory or in reality? That is the question we all should be asking. The other stuff will be dealt with in both the near term and mid term.
I will wait and see if you are on to something or just pissing into a headwind again...and again....and again.

[Bill Tozer]

Breaking News!!! The Russians are bad people and Putin is a nasty man. Berry berry bad people.

[Paul Emery]

Bill

To the extent that Trump took advantage of their availability I'd say yes the intent was to influence the election. Why would he have made such a big deal about it. |Also Trump kept saying words to the effect that said "stay tuned, we'll have a new batch from Wikileaks any time now" that is a testimony to the value to his campaign of transmitting the stolen personal correspondence provided by the Russians. Why would they provide it if it wasn't to their advantage to promote Trump?

[George Rebane]

PaulE 221pm - Now those quotes are pretty lame, but we do understand that is the best you can do to make your case. And what does your 244pm have to do with proving that the USIC stated the Russians did it?

For the record, I believe there's a high likelihood that the Russians were somehow involved in hacking the DNC and Hillary's illegal private servers. And I for one am glad that the hacked data was then made public instead of being kept in the back allies of the world's intelligence communities. I and others like me wanted to see what everyone else in the world was looking at.

[Paul Emery]

Would you have felt the same way ethically if the releases would have been of Republican private emails? Certainly a moral equivalent would have been the release of the now famous pussy grabbing video featuring our President elect. You have no problem with that do you or any other amplified private conversation Trump may have had?

[Don Bessee]

I guess I shouldn't offer my spare inauguration ticket to Paul. ;-)

[George Rebane]

PaulE 305pm - Sure, goose and gander and all that.

[Bill Tozer]

Paul, do not confuse attempts to influence with successful determining of the outcome. If it is from Russia, it's called propaganda. If it is from the Major Networks, it's called fake news. Unless....unless....unless....you think Wikileaks is why Trump won. No one is that stupid. Trump's grabbing a handful of hair pie comments would have sunk anyone in this day and age. Wikileaks was small potatoes after the Primaries, IMHO.

Yes, I wave the flag and want our communications secure and want the friggin hackers dropped from a plane at 10,0000 feet. Don't mess with The United States of America. We will find them and open up a big can of Whoop Ass on their sorry heads. Escpecially hacking trade secrets, aircraft designs from Boeing, my house, your work, my country.
Putin a a dangerous man in a very dangerous world. Separate issue.

Now, National Security and the CIA. You just don't get Trump, do you? I am delighted that he twitted what he did about the CIA. Absolutely delighted. He just told the CIA that business as usual is over and time to cross every T and dot every I. No more bull pucky and predetermined political issuances. Cut the shit. Now, he will get along just fine with them lickity split.
Trump just did not like the fact that the CIA phycologists prepped Hillary before the debates about how to get to Trump. Hill's first thing out of her mouth was about him "borrowing 14 million from his Daddy." Threw him so far off guard and it worked magnificently. Donald is protective of his daddy and it was less than 14 million. He never recovered from that on the first debate. But, Trump is a quick learner and it was his first debate in his entire life. Besides that and a mistrust of the CIA (like your "Bush lied, people died" broken record), it will be kiss and make up time soon enough.

Let me explain Trump to you cause you don't do sarcasm well or Trump speak.
Look, everybody and Trump know you can legally burn the flag. He tweets about off with the flag burners' heads and while you guys are running around like chickens with your heads cut off, Trump is off over at another place doing his real business. He just wanted/needed to change the opposition's narrative. Worked. You were looking in the wrong place. He just did so and so behind the scenes.

He tweets on Lady Gaga or something and the media is racing to proveit wrong and get all worked up in a lather and.....oppps....he changed the narrative and announces another Cabinet pic. He operates on a level that might be called planned chaos, friction. It works as a method to get things done...important stuff....you are taking it as planned. He is playing you Paul, but not as much as your news sources are playing you. Not even close.

Yes, cypher warfare is what is happening. It's our new brave world reality we did not plan on. Wikileaks is just the first one that caught your attention. The Chinese are a hell of a lot more ruthless and greedy and destructive...and better financed. See the forest from the Wikileaks tree.

[Gregory]

Paul, let's be real here. The damning emails were not strictly private, and some were emails that had been under subpoena. There were Emails between DNC officials detailing collusion between the DNC and journalists... including journalists being pushed to push the easiest to defeat Republicans, the real bad ones, and they were doing it... Trump, Cruz and Rubio. They got the opponent they wanted and, on Nov 9, had a real bad case of buyer's remorse.

"Where did we go right?"- Max Bialystock.

Of all the folks standing around looking for blame regarding the sorry state of US Election integrity, journalists deserve the most derision. For a good laugh, read the journalist's creed, written a century ago:
https://journalism.missouri.edu/tabbed-content/creed-2/

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3EgJ7nIC0M

[Walt]

Paul. You still are dodging all the questions. I now call for an embargo on answers to anything you put a question mark after. You have yet to answer why the truth getting out is a bad thing.

[Walt]

THIS JUST IN....
http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/12/wisconsin-recount-ends-with-trump-expanding-lead-over-clinton/
"But instead of exposing widespread fraud on Trump’s behalf, the recount found no major discrepancies and expanded Trump’s lead. After a week and a half of recounting, the final tally discovered 1,769 more votes than were counted on election night, and Trump’s lead increased by 162 votes."

The Russians did it.... Right?

[Bill Tozer]

Ok, peace offering. How about another nice bipartisan Blue Ribbon Commission to look into this delicate manner. All better now.