The Still Muddled Middle (updated)

George Rebane

Recently consideration of America’s political landscape has resurfaced in these pages, motivated by Nevada County’s self-declared middle roader RL Bob Crabb who published a powerful condemnation of both the Left and Right upon which I expanded in ‘Oh, were it only that simple’.  From that Bob took umbrage at me, RR, and our commenters, and then we were off to the polemical races on his blog and here.

Readers know that I am no fan of the middle roader (MR) approach to our country’s politics, especially when the L/R schism has become a broad chasm over the last decades.  My beliefs about MR ideology have been covered in past posts, summarized most recently in ‘The Muddled Middle’(2012)  and ‘The Muddled Middle – a revealing look’(2015).  But that was then, and this is now when the chasm has widened considerably, and shows no sign of slowing down, let alone beginning to close.  Let me explain.

Reviewing the landscape in the common one-dimensional L/M/R format, it remains true that only the Right has comprehensively codified and published its ideological tenets in multiple formats down to the level of public policy prescriptions.  The collectivist Left has a perennial problem of coming down from the stratosphere from whence they dispense platitudes of goodness and light by a cynical invitation to wholesale altruistic behavior.  Such appeals to altruism, of course, are a fraudulent bait to get popular support (aka the vote), since implementing their policies always call for an enlarged government required to monitor compliance and enforce with its guns.  The Left knows if they detail things down to policy levels, then what they propose will not sell to those used to thinking they are a free people living in a land of liberty.

But the MR folks are the most opaque of all, and for good reason.  By the very definition of the ‘middle’, there is no profit in taking the time to solidify and disseminate their ideology because they are not in control of it.  MR ideology must forever be the servant (slave?) of L/R ideological dynamics.  For instance, if the Left takes a hard tack more leftward, then the MR must also go an appropriate ideological distance to the left else they’ll have to asymmetrically heap more criticism on the Left and be accused of having abandoned their MR position.  The same thing happens in the other direction.  Bottom line, as a MR devotee, you can’t put any ideological stakes in the ground that reveal your seminal principles.  More to the point, except again for high level platitudes, the MR must needs remain unprincipled and nimble while equally criticizing the Left and Right.

And all this becomes more difficult for the MR when the L/R chasm is as wide as it is today.  In that situation very few MRs can credibly pull off spouting ‘A pox on both your houses!’.  Our good-hearted and well-intentioned local cartoonist has unwillingly (and unwittingly?) served as Exhibit A to make the case in point.

The fundamental flaw in selling the middle to widely spaced ideologues is found in the perspectives seen from both sides of the political road.  Each looks at, say, a socio-economic problem and sees their solution as the utterly reasonable 2+2=4 while the other side promotes the unworkable 2+2=5.  Enter the MR, who now says to both in the best Johnsonian fashion, ‘Come let us reason together’, and presents something near 4.5 as the reasonable compromise.  Both sides, of course, look at that and see 4.5 as patently wrong, they each see that such a solution will not serve.  Moreover, their publicized principles would be compromised to oblivion in the eyes of their respective constituencies.  Why is that?

Well, each side knows that it can make a reasoned case for its 2+2=4.  And they know that the other side’s reasoned case for 2+2=5 is the analog of the classic scene from a Ma and Pa Kettle movie (here) in which our backwoods stalwarts show how 25 divided by 5 yields 14, no matter how you come at the problem.

In such a polarized duel the MRs stand unarmed.  They have a hard time making a consistent case for any specific solution, because it may have to have been moved this way or that since last time.  Most certainly they can present no reasoned road to any solution should they be brave enough to venture forth because the unprincipled middle road will definitely have to appeal to the logical gymnastics of the Kettles.  That is why the MRs can only peddle a peace that passeth all understanding.

(As a postlude, my position on all of the above can be savaged if not destroyed by a bona fide MR citing tenets of a belief system that can reasonably guide the intelligent reader from principles to policy.  Else they can do no more than offer Rodney King’s plaintive appeal while carping at true believers on both sides from their proudly unsullied yet still muddled middle.)

[update]  A commenter below reminded me that Nolan charts were introduced to RR readers some years back (2010) when we discussed more realistically dimensioned political landscapes (here).  At that time I posted my own location on the left chart below.  I retook the survey given by the different purveyor of Nolan charts (here) and got positioned as shown in the right chart.  Hard to tell if I’ve shifted or we have some apples and oranges in the questionnaire and subsequent scoring algo.  But for what it’s worth, both assignments are close enough for government work, and both illustrate why I call myself a conservetarian.  Thought you’d like to know since we’re back again talking about political positioning.

Comments

[Todd Juvinall]

If you want to see why many p[eople are uninformed, read the page A9 of the Union today. It trashes the Berkeley rally of we "Patriots"and is such a lie and a propaganda piece for the left I had to respond.

http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2017/04/ap-bias-against-conservatives-up-close.html

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh and for Paul Emery, those "midde of the roaders" are now giving Trump a 50% approval today.

[Walt]

Being in the "middle of the road", I have a little experience in that dept. (Not politically, but literally,,) One tends to get run over if your not careful.
Crabb might want to put on an orange vest. I have one to spare.

[Bill Tozer]

Interesting point Dr. Rebane brings up. If one side of the Great Divide moves further to the outer edges, only in a perfect world the middle would stay put. But, my observation of the current rapid shift to the Alt-Left by the Democrat Party has drawn the middle roaders (who may have non verbalized Left leanings and sympathies) further Left. Has the 'middle of the road' shifted from the former ground zero? I think so.

From today's Drudge Report.........strike that. Saw this and thought of Dr. Rebane:

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1070336353100401/?type=3&theater

Ok, now from today's The Hill via the Drudge Report, "Dems welcome Bernie takeover". Bernie, that non Democrat Party member who is a powerful voice of the Democrat Party. Middle Roaders are finding a smaller realm to occupy.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329049-democrats-welcome-bernie-takeover

Walt @ 10:01 am: Of all the middle of the road roadkill cliques, the one that stands the test of time is "You have to stand for something or else you will fall for everything." Another one is the ole "if you sit on the fence long enough, eventually you will fall off".

[Gregory]

Left - MR - Right

It's still a one dimensional representation of all political thought. Ridiculous. One of the blithering idiocies that keeps the Left-Right Hatfield's and McCoy's skirmishes going from year to year.

The world's smallest political quiz is illustrative:
https://www.theadvocates.org/

I'd be happy to argue a 100/100 (NOT MUSHY MIDDLE) freedom/self-government score with anyone who wants to justify their answers (though it wouldn't take much realistic compromising of my own principles to get a more middling answer on welfare and social security.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart

[Bonnie McGuire]

Todd...Thanks for sharing what you personally experienced at the Berkeley rally. What's amazing is that the trouble makers get away with wearing masks like criminals and terrorists would wear. Pretty violent activity...Here's more on it plus photos.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-berkeley-trump-rally-20170415-story.html

[Todd Juvinall]

Thanksa Bonnie. Even though I was there and saw and heard it all the press still does not tell the truth about what and who instigated the problems. The rally was about freedom. The alt-left thugs were all about shutting it down. And thankfully the M-80's they set off did not have shrapnel.

[rl crabb]

If this attitude had been popular in 1776, we'd still be an English colony. Never give an inch!

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh you underestimate your own people.

[George Rebane]

crabb 711am - Ah Robert, you have forgotten your history. In our revolutionary years the American colonists were divided into pretty much equal thirds in their political attitudes. One third were loyalists wanting to stay under England; one third were patriots wanting independence from England; and one third were middle roaders who didn't care one way or the other. They just wanted peace, not be bothered, and everyone to get along with each other.

What gave us our blessed country was that the conflict between the uncompromising extremes was won by the patriots. And they won because they had no alternative, no place to go (as did the loyalists), they had to hang together to make their extreme ideology prevail, or they would hang separately.

And you have here demonstrated the sneaking hunch most of us on the Right have had for some time now. As the Left has moved further left, you middle roaders have drifted with them. Even your history is now politically correct.

[Bill Tozer]

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1070368143097222/?type=3&theater

[Bill Tozer]

Submitted for your consideration. What's a Middle Roader to do?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266197/civil-war-here-daniel-greenfield

Resist!

[Paul Emery]

George

do you classify Trump as a middle of the roader when he guarantees affordable health care for all?

""There's many different ways, by the way. Everybody's got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say because a lot of times they say, 'No, no, the lower 25 percent that can't afford private'… I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now."

[George Rebane]

PaulE 949am - No. As long as the guarantee of "affordable" health care (or anything, viz housing) requires government mandated and enforced transfer of wealth, then it becomes an aspect of socialism - an ideology of the Left. I guess when you promote enough such transfers (beyond, say, building highways/bridges and maintaining a military) you will be called a socialist.

But what I find interesting is that you asked me this question and not Nevada County's premier Mid-Roader, Mr RL Crabb. You may not have understood my post. I do not claim to know the MR tenets, and I have yet to find a MR who is willing (able?) to spell them out. Becoming/being a MR seems to be an acquired taste and most certainly a proudly worn mantle one drapes on himself.

[Walt]

Kinda like "guaranteeing" an affordable car for "everyone". You get what you can afford.
If all you can do to scrape together enough for a beater Dodge that 15 years old, so be it.
By no means does that "guarantee" mean that you will be driving a new Lexis.

Paul still didn't answer how much taxes he's willing to fork over to the State for "covered Ca." Moonbat made the same promise, yet didn't say how that would be paid for. I'm sure we ALL know "how". Tax the living crap out of us.

Try getting "affordable" home coverage up in these here hills. There "auta be a law" to get those under control.

[Bill Tozer]

Oh, I give Crabb credit. The gloves are coming off and he is coming out of the closet. This Trump thang is too much for the poor soul. No worries, he is in good company from sea (skip over the land mass) to shining seaboard. Gotta smoke 'em out. Ah, breathe that fresh air and welcome to the shootout at high noon.

Yo Mr. Crabby!
Glad you could make it to the street brawl on time, Mr. Crabb, you local institution you. Loved the Fez when you were Mayor of Joe Cain Day....weekend. A long overdue honor. Still got your autographed (in my presence) book.....best of Crabb or something. Village Idiot stories....I dunno....never read it...just felt sorry for ya and slipped some greenbacks your way. I have a soft spot for those whose mantra used to be "Don't Trust Anyone Over 30". Ouch! I knew that one who come back to haunt us someday. Youth is wasted on the young.

Oh, BTW, when the revolution comes, there be no more Nigga or bullshit and all old white predator privileged rural males will be rounded up and asent to reeducation class! Sorry, those young elite college kids call YOU and me 'privileged' and we all get painted with that broad brush. Yes, it's so unfair. Sorry, it's not your fault or ideology. Born that way I reckon.

Be careful which side you choose. To quote the evil 'Ronnie Rayguns':

The Gipper: “If some among you fear taking a stand because you are afraid of reprisals from customers, clients, or even government, recognize that you are just feeding the crocodile hoping he’ll eat you last.”

[Robert Cross]

Mandated health care may be socialistic in nature but mandated poison is capitalism at its best. Make America grate (sic) by damaging the brains of children so that oil companies (most pesticides are fossil fuel based) can increase their already obscene profit margins at the expense of future generations. This must be part of trump's job's plan. All of those damaged children will need care, greatly expanding low end health care employment, specialized schooling, etc. Not to mention mentally crippling future generations to match trump's intellect. Trump wants everyone to be as stupid and as he is, so he doesn't feel so bad and take his ball and go home. On second thought, the world would be better off if he did just that.. go home and stop trying to turn our country into a 16th century fiefdom where the rich folks lord over the rest of us, like his cabinet picks and advisors. After all, profit is more important than ethics or quality of life.

https://yubanet.com/enviro/groups-appeal-epas-refusal-to-ban-major-pesticide-linked-to-brain-damage-in-children/

[Todd Juvinall]

You really have drunk the Kool-Aid there RC. Better check your pulse. I would guess you are close to a heart attack with all that worry.

[George Rebane]

re RoberC's 142pm - Priceless comment! Here we see liberals' ignorance on steroids. The man has no idea about the "already obscene profit margins" of oil companies, and most likely anything else he talks about. Oil companies average profits come in under 7% which are paltry compared to other industries - e.g. pharma (more than double) and soft drink companies (way more higher), and it goes up from there. But this is what our Left has been taught in union schools and facts be damned; like with 'climate change', their sclerotic minds are made up, their debates are over - calcification über alles.

[Todd Juvinall]

Oil and gas employ over 9 million Americans. And at top wages.

[fish]

Posted by: Robert Cross | 18 April 2017 at 01:42 PM

Ummm....Bob......why would not banning chlorpyrifos now lead to....ahem...."All of those damaged children will need care, greatly expanding low end health care employment, specialized schooling, etc. Not to mention mentally crippling future generations to match trump's intellect"? This stuff has been in use since 1965 and banned for use in the home since 2001. Hell bobby..... agricultural use is down by 20% in the last 10 years.

Of course none of this should interrupt your display of Recreational Outrage for a second! Go ahead and get it out of your system!!

[Bill Tozer]

Well, I reckon my pursuit of happiness is directly tied to capitalism. My, my, I just get all hot and bothered when I see a true Capitalistic Pig come strolling my way. Maybe that one-line shrink on the other thread shrink can take at look at Mr. Cross and give us a free professional opinion. I just love professional opinions....when they are free!! He says I got Momma issues or something. But....but....but I was a breast fed baby. It's free! Made in America stamped right on my breastplate. Wonder if I have 'missing rib' resentment issues? I know I have had my share of women problems. That must be it.

Chia Tea, Mr. Cross. Too hip, gotta go. Got to grab the neighbor and go out and poison us some fine water wells while we have this nice break in the weather. Take a chill pill.

[Paul Emery]

George writew "Government mandated and enforced transfer of wealth, then it becomes an aspect of socialism - an ideology of the Left. "

Does acceptance of Farm Subsidies qualify you for being a "Socialist"?

Do the Farm Subsidies such as those awarded to the LaMalfa family qualify as a transfer of wealth by your vision? AS a taxpayer that is my money being transfered.

[fish]

In Maxines defense she probably just suffers from Paul Emery Syndrome and doesn't remember calling for impeachment.

Maxine Waters: 'I Have Not Called for Impeachment...'

https://pjmedia.com/video/maxine-waters-i-have-not-called-for-impeachment/

[Russ]

The Idiots from Grass Valley and Nevada City Made National News

In addition to the report below this incident was discussed on National Syndicated Radio, the Tom Sullivan Show on KFBK. A woman who attended the meeting called into the show, and when Tom ask where the people shouting were from, the lady said Nevada City and Grass Valley.

OROVILLE (CBS13) — The boos and shouts of displeasure started during the introduction of Rep. Doug LaMalfa (R-Richvale) at his town hall meeting in Oroville.

For nearly two hours, the crowd at the State Theater shouted down responses by the congressman.

“I’m appalled,” said Linda Agee, a LaMalfa supporter.

“It’s very enlightening and disturbing to experience this first hand,” said Denise Culley, who was attending her first town hall event.

How ever I think this was the more important comment for a high school student to attended the Town Hall:

As the crowd yelled through each response. A 16-year-old high school student offered his perspective.

“I think the immaturity is astounding,” said Greyson Reynolds.

Reynolds is an Oroville High School junior. He says he was at Monday’s meeting to thank LaMalfa for holding a similar Q & A at his high school. The atmosphere according to Reynolds was much different.

“Night and day. It’s hard to believe that these people are grown adults and those people, the people at my high school are children. You’d think it was the opposite,” said Reynolds.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/04/17/doug-lamalfa-oroville-town-hall/

If this the image that the community wants? Is this the image that the Economic Resource Council want to send to potential business or employees considering a move to Nevada County, adults acting like children?

[cross posted at https://sierrafoothillcommentary.com]

[Paul Emery]

I haven't called for impeachment of Trump Fish. Plese document me saying that or retract your statement.

The only impeachment calling I recall was from Trump who called for the impeachment of Bush for lying about the necessity of war with Iraq. That has been well documented in these pages but for your memory enhancement I will provide a link.

"In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Trump said the president and his administration deliberately lied about the Iraq war, and congressional Democrats missed an opportunity to impeach him when the party took control of Congress in 2006.

"I was surprised that she didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush," Trump said. "It was almost - it just seemed like she was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office, which personally I think would have been a wonderful thing."

Pressed why he feels Bush deserved the punishment faced by only two other commanders-in-chief, Trump said the president misled the country in the run-up to the Iraq war, and that his actions were considerably more objectionable than those which led to the impeachment of former President Bill Clinton."http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/15/trump-i-wanted-bush-impeached/

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 18 April 2017 at 03:30 PM

I responded Paul but it appears to have been "Memory Holed"....there will be no retraction.

[Paul Emery]

So you are saying I called for the impeachment of Trump but have no documentation just your memory. Is that correct Fish?

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 18 April 2017 at 04:00 PM

No Paul I implied that both you and Maxine are having difficulty remembering things. In this instance Maxine is denying calling for Trumps impeachment even though there are multiple documented examples of her doing just that.

George refers to it as "Barn Circling"....going over the same topic and asking questions already answered again, and again, and again.

[Walt]

Well damn the rules. that LIB running for that vacant seat doesn't even LIVE in the district! Did I just hear that right? He got to vote too? Nevada county LIBS are taking notes.

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

re Russ@3:28PM

A series of youtube clips showing the 'meeting'.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1wqo_qIHY8aXLvy3W2qDzQ

[Walt]

Fish.. Paul NEVER answers questions of importance.(better clarify that.. NO Importance to HIM.)

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

oh...and to do my bit to stick to the original topic. Would it make sense to add a third dimension onto a Nolan chart which shows the the external forces applied to the individual? Specifically, I'm thinking about government vs. social pressure. This last counts for a lot in some high functioning (and low) systems and adds a different flavor to human organization.

[George Rebane]

Scenes 421pm - How would determine the scale of the "external forces" third dimension? And how would you extract the extent/intensity of such external forces from the respondent seeking to place himself in that political space? Would 'the Debbil made me do it' rate as a high or low external force?

[Walt]

So the nut job Maxine "shallow" Waters says she never called for Trump's impeachment.. OH Really? Just Google that and see what shows up. I gave up looking when even BEFORE Trump was sworn in, she made that statement. (Stated on Jan.17th of this year.) And SO many times after that.
Well LIBS,, care to defend her? If it was a Repub who denied saying something similar you would be all over it. But since she's a she, and Black, AND a LIB,, it's just fine.. Give her a pass.

[Walt]

Now what will the muddled middle do?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/18/calexit-leader-drops-california-secession-effort-to-make-russia-his-new-home.html#

Don't let the door hit ya' where the good Lord split ya'. Enjoy that Rusky life.
Take more with you. We won't miss them.

[Todd Juvinall]

Looks like the lib loons from here traveled to Oroville to shout down LaMalfa.

[George Rebane]

Administrivia - I pulled out a couple comments that involved nothing but mudballs between people on BobC's blog and commenters here. For off topic inter-blog mudball fights, please use other venues, preferably your own blog.

[Todd Juvinall]

Looks good for the democrat in Newt's old district. Yikes! But next election will return it to sanity. I remember Hawaii the same happened and a Republican won a special there as the democrats split up their numbers. The R lasted a few months. Then a return to D.

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

re: GR @ 5:09

I'm not entirely sure, and it might not be any easier than defining 'more freedom' and 'less freedom'.

Since political/social monocultures can have built-in controls that avoid the need for explicit government rules, they might be confused with having freedom. Obviously, the government is not the only way to herd larger groups of cats. The 'debil' will exist to the extent you think he is real.

I need to think about it.

[Bill Tozer]

Well, let's see what our newsman is reading. Hmmm. There was a PHd in Vegas that ran as an independent. Got squat votes. He mailed out lletters to 1,000 registered voters who voted in his district. Over 990 letters came back returned from the addresses. Vacant lots, people moved, that kind of stuff. Figured this would take time to grow legs. All those buses loaded up with farmer works (migrants) from Riverside and Coachella Valley making a bee line to Vegas to vote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nevada-voter-fraud_us_58f663b2e4b0da2ff863e0d8?ref=yfp

Unfortunately, Katy Gimmies has the best research on Riverside County in CA, but now she is blocked from every election office straight up to our CA Sec of State. Nobody will give her the time of day. Looks like we need the Feds (Sessions) to crack this chasity belt open.

Oh, the Dems are tricky ones, I tell ya. At least they do it the old fashioned way....not like those far left 3rd Reich Party thugs running the streets nowadays.

Resist!

[Walt]

The old "by any means necessary" may have played a role.
Voting machines and materials were stolen from that election dist.
Some poll worker didn't safeguard it, and stolen out his car. Then didn't report it for two days!
Since there is at least one who just won't believe,,,
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/04/18/voting-machines-stolen-before-georgia-special-election/

It sure ain't the Ruskys.

[Bill Tozer]

Aren't both those guys CA liberals? Or are they part of the vast muddled middle? I can't tell them apart.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/04/17/conservative-watchdog-group-requests-investigation-into-two-house-intel-democrats/

[Todd Juvinall]

Runoff in District 6, Georgia! Yay!

[Bill Tozer]

Back on topic: The still muddled middle:

https://heatst.com/uncategorized/why-are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-doing-battle-they-agree-on-almost-everything/?mod=sm_fb_post

To be fair to the White Separatist who punched the young porn star anti-fascist woman in the face, we cannot say a White Separatist (the true Alt-Righties) punched at women in the face. That would be assuming one's gender. Her Go Fund Me page for her medical bills is seeking 80k. So far, she has got just over 4K, FYI.
Fascists and Anti-Fascists pounding on each other. Popcorn time. :)

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

re: BillT @ 10:28

At least it will give her a break from throwing bottles and having to work in the hirsute porn biz. I'd suggest sending as much money as you could afford.

re: Me @ 8:04PM

I was thinking of ways to measure monocultures (as opposed to strict government control of a people). A straightforward way is to instrument language. Lots of languages? Lots of rules. One language, fewer explicit rules. Finer gradation might be found by measuring accents. It's both a cause and an effect.

[George Rebane]

scenes 749am - Not sure what you mean by "instrument language", but I agree that there could be a definite correlation between the number of unassimilated languages and the weight of laws and regs required to enforce a social contract.

What intrigued me about your 804pm was the definition of freedom implied. No one living in a social order is totally free; we all live under some behavioral constraints that are explicit (e.g. codified laws) and/or cultural dictates that may be negligible to draconian. A person feels free to the extent that in his normal round he does not bump into such constraints.

[George Rebane]

UC Berkeley has now cancelled Ann Coulter's speech after she was invited there. It would really be interesting to hear a mid-roader explain how any of these rock ape behaviors in public forums by the Left are equal to how the Right is disposed to hearing leftwing speakers espouse their positions and beliefs. For example, what would a mid-roader predict about the reception of Maxine Waters speaking engagement at Hillsdale College or at Cal Lutheran in Thousand Oaks?

[Todd Juvinall]

I have been infornmed she is going to do the speech regardless. I have a ticket. I will let you know.

[fish]

How did it come to this.......

Maxine New Queen of Left...

I mean I thought the Republicans were good at pulling defeat from the jaws of victory but this is just sad!

http://nypost.com/2017/04/19/democrats-all-too-telling-love-for-maxine-waters/

[Bill Tozer]

Still muddled middle. What to do when free speech is replaced by political correctness?

"Many Americans believe the election of Donald Trump dealt campus fascism a substantial rebuke, and what we’re seeing is the manifestation of a decaying ideology. Nothing could be further from the truth. American culture is moving inexorably leftward, driven in large part by the failure to confront this growing cancer on college campuses."

"Most Americans still believe the nation’s cultural concepts, traditions and morals are both self-explanatory and virtuous. Thus, they are completely unprepared for a progressive assault that holds many of those values in utter contempt. Values like marriage being reserved for members of the opposite sex, gender being tethered to biology — or objective truth being immutable."

https://patriotpost.us/articles/48638

Note to the strong and combat tested: Keep talking the battle to their own turf. That is where the hornet's nest is to be found.

[fish]

Ooohh.....more narrative fail!

Wash Post poll hides: Trump still beats Clinton, 43%-40%

What the hell were you democrats thinking....nominating the only candidate who could lose to the Tangerine Tornado?

[Walt]

In France it's Far right VS far left.
And who did "O" make a phone call to? You guessed it. The Commie bastard.

[Russ]

No Spin News

Bill O'Reilly returns to the news cycle at 7 PM Eastern on Monday with the No Spin News, which will be podcast for all subscribers of Bill O'Reilly webpage https://www.billoreilly.com

Let's see how far he moves to the right, or slides left now that he is an independent producer of his own show.

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

re: Walt @ 1:14PM

"In France it's Far right VS far left."

It's kind of unclear to me what 'far' right even is. Historically, I expect that Le Pen would be considered a member of the far left in the US with the notable exception of establishing national borders and restricting immigration.

[George Rebane]

Russ 156pm - I look forward to that podcast which will no doubt be archived, at least for a while. Readers' thoughts on his new venture will be appreciated.

[Walt]

Well Scenes, I hear "O" called the Commie to give support. That's all I needed to hear.
As for the deff. of "far" goes,,,,,, Got nutt'n....

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

lol. and so it begins....

http://www.politico.eu/article/france-election-2017-russia-hacked-cyberattacks/

[Walt]

Here,, round two of Clinton/DNCgate
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/04/23/russians-hacked-democrats-plans-cheat-general-election/

I still can't buy the idea of Russia helping Trump. Why would they help him win, when they should have a good idea Trump would never take any of their crap, but Progressives are Commie lite.

Not surprising that LIB news would forgo any reporting of these exposed communications.

[Don Bessee]

Now we know why the FBI director went public with the reopening of madam liar liar pantsuits on fire investigations. The NYT is saying that our intel intercepted some of the hackers activity and ended up snatching up a DNC to Loretta Lynch conspiracy memo. Loretta we know you wont let the HRC investigation go too far... kind of thing. Some of it seems to point to a broader conspiracy to screw bernie and steal the general election. The timely disclosure of slick willy and Loretta at the airport seems to have an interesting relevance on the timeline. ;-)

[Bill Tozer]

@ 9:03 pm.

What is it about Loretta Lynch that reminds me so much of former Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders? I listen to Lynch and I think of Joycelyn Edlers. Weird.

[Walt]

Think that is bad Bill? My sister looks like Izzy Warren. I can't stand either one.

[fish]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 23 April 2017 at 09:24 PM

Jocelyn Elders was clueless.....Lynch knew exactly what a good Team Democrat foot soldier needed to do for her general. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your political leaning) it looks like Billy Jeffs impromptu Arizona airport get together with the Attorney General is what ultimately cost Hillary the election!

See Dons NY Times reference above!

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. Fish
There is something about Lynch that reminds of Elders's personality, not really Lynch's team player conniving. Think I started drawing the parallels after the Pulse mass killing in Orlando. Lynch talked about the need for love and understanding of Islamics bent on Hell Fury and hugs not guns.....and hugs....and hugs and employment opportunities for the young. That is what you expect an AG to say after the biggest mass murder episode in US history, right?
Reminded me of Joyceyn demonstrating the condom on a banana and, of course, her recommendation to indulge in some good old self gratification as a way to avoid STDs and practice safe sex.

There is just something about the little lady Loretta. Mid-level unheralded lawyer that was placed in the cat bird's seat by the intense lobbing of the Rev. Al, a man who visited the White House more than 66 times and counting as records get released. Rev Al is demanding Trump release his tax returns and led a Tax Day Protest! Sometimes fact is stranger than fiction. Those Arizona tarmacs get real hot...starting around June, before the DNC Convention in the city of Brotherly Love.

Oh yeah, the topic: Still muddled middle. Wonder if she attended Rev. Jeremiah Wright's Black Theology Church? Bet she indulges in a little self gratification herself.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208431591054191&set=a.1053930795368.2009082.1438748226&type=3&theater

[fish]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 24 April 2017 at 09:46 AM

Yeah.....old Karen is quite the piece o work! I was desperately hoping that she was going to be able to hang on health wise to run against Rahm "Rahmbo" Emanuel for mayor a few years back. That would have been high comedy!

[fish]

Who said, "When fascism comes to America it will under the guise of anti-fascism!"

"The idea of freedom of speech does not mean a blanket permission to say anything anybody thinks. It means balancing the inherent value of a given view with the obligation to ensure that other members of a given community can participate in discourse as fully recognized members of that community."

Sound vaguely like the complaints of a local man a while back.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/446991/nyt-publishes-speech-suppression-advocacy

[Bill Tozer]

Karen also reminds me of somebody....looks like.....looks "vaguely like the complaints of a local man a while back."

[fish]

No Platforming.......Non Western Gateway Park version.

No-platforming may look like censorship from certain angles, but from others it’s a consequence of a challenging, never-ending process occurring at virtually all levels of the university: deciding what educational material to present to our students and what to leave out.

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/04/24/3953154/

[Russ]

REMINDER:

The No Spin News Returns at 4 PM PDT today and is free through the end of the month, Have to sign up to hear the podcast after 1 May 2017. Good time to check out the quality and the utility of Bill's new format.

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

....and, it begins.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-24/obama-receive-400000-speaking-fee-cantor-fitzgerald-conference

lol. Just imagine all the wisdom you can pick up for $400k/hr.

[Todd Juvinall]

Hey Russ where is the O'Reilly podcast?

[ScenesFromTheApocalypse]

Apropos of nothing, but man, the funny news just writes it's own self.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/24/new-york-times-scraps-female-genital-mutilation-for-being-culturally-loaded-term.html

[fish]

Posted by: ScenesFromTheApocalypse | 24 April 2017 at 06:08 PM

Yeah....satire doesn't have a chance!!

[Walt]

Too good. Have to share.
The Real Deplorable dan
"He's making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out whose running from ICE Donald Trump is building A WALL"
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/04/24/sessions-doj-has-sent-a-letter-to-10-sanctuary-cities-in-possible-violation-of-immigration-law/

[Don Bessee]

Scenes- Right on the heels of a scum bag in a burqa being arrested for mutilating 5 and 6 year olds here in the US as part of a broader sharia conspiracy. Those editors at the NYT if confronted with a new Joseph Mengele would give him a pass as a pioneer of medical research. Himmler would also be recognized for providing so many abortions to the undesirables and physically challenged. How far are the left from forced abortions for genetic disorders like downs? Could you imagine what CAIR would say if the left started aggressively pushing abortions in the Islamic communities like Dearborn? ;-)

[Account Deleted]

SFTA 6:08 - Wondering what Celia Dugger would call it if it were done to her?
The left is bad enough on it's own, but left wing women seem to have a death wish.
Maybe the lefties that post here could chime in?
Or the 'middle of the roaders'?
Nah - they're all hiding under their beds. Wetting them selves.
Their worst fear is being called out as 'Islamaphobes'.
Because they are cowards. All of them.

[Bill Tozer]

Mr.Obermuller @ 9:50 pm

"The left is bad enough on it's own, but left wing women seem to have a death wish."

Scott, you must have ESPN! It was just announced that the Female Human Rights Commission at the UN accepted Saudia Arabia as its newest member on the Female Human Rights Commission. You go girls!