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25 August 2017


Bill Tozer

Their suicide rates are very disturbing.

Bill Tozer

Milo at Berekly? I will believe when I see it.


I'd be interested in seeing her raw data, hopefully it wasn't just questionnaires handed out in Psych 1A megaclasses. Kids that age are also a great big cohort on 4chan and the_donald. That represents more a kind of right wing nihilism (I think).

I have to admit that I'm struck by what a good job the SW writers have done in making addictive products. Basically, they've put a slot machine in everyone's pocket. The surveillance and instant feedback of users has made all the difference in the world as compared to desktop applications. Whether people remain snowflakes the moment that their actual physical comfort is threatened remains to be seen.

Given the likely changes that AI is going to bring, I think that any philosophies held by 20 year olds are going to be short-lived.

Todd Juvinall

Hey BillT wanna go?

George Rebane

Scenes 1131am - How do you think that the philosophies (or more completely, the ontologies) of the millennials will be affected by the AI surge into our lives?


re: GR@12:01PM

A trillion dollar question, to be sure.

I'll avoid using internet search and think on it for a sec. This is only idle chatter with no deep thought applied.

Just to cut into three phases...

. The one people are talking about currently. Widespread disappearance of professions and jobs generally. Some new jobs pop into being, but at nowhere near a replacement rate and requiring special skills and/or using people as manipulation tools themselves. Hopefully we don't see a vastly increased GINI, but it's easy to see a much more widespread welfare state with the attendant boredom and general troublemaking opportunities. I can see a higher degree of tribalism, importance of styles, some combination of inner-city Baltimore and what the Japanese call a 'parasite single'. The average person is not well equipped to use copious free time well I'm afraid.

. AI-driven design causing a lack of understanding. While we've been moving to a world where people use what they don't know and are ruled by laws they don't understand, I can see that happening on steroids. Even engineers will grok less of a design as development tools move up a food chain. As a trivial case, you can see where something like tax law is generated by an AI, certainly the stock market largely is at this point. The replacement of doctors or surgeons by machine. Imagine a world run on magic. There's a certain part of your soul that goes away by simply not knowing how or why something works, maybe a feeling of helplessness.

. AI management. You can see it starting now as the world of internet sales drills into your head. An AI might start with replacing human institutions like the Fed or even a courtroom, but not long afterward the management system and it's limitations and goals don't work on human terms. A 'logical' or practical AI running affairs is an odd thought, since it could be that logic is an anthropomorphism, certainly fairness is ( and isn't guaranteed ,thus 'Tay's Law'). Whether people make it as a thing through this phase, I couldn't tell you, but the ontology of a millennial simply won't matter at this point.

Hitting 'post' without spellcheck, hope for the best.

George Boardman

As far as I can tell, every generation beginning with the Baby Boomers has been no damn good. But, miraculously, they all seem to turn out all right.

I'll reserve judgement on the iGeneration, but I've been impressed with the few I've met.


"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer, circa 1964

My expectation is that the author does not place adequate blame on the continuing slide of K-12 education, which continually selects the lowest quarter of college students to teach and to administer schools, preparing the next group of college students to ever lower standards.

Add in the near total feminization of K-8, many elementary schools being virtual pink collar ghettos, and you really have a change from my K-6 experience that included WWII and Korean War vets teaching in my classrooms (I'd say it was about a 60F/40M split at the time).

Of course, the near exclusion of non-Democrats in education circles also primes the snowflake pump.

Bill Tozer

According to Dr Twenge’s research, the iGeners are not a happy bunch. “On the contrary, the more time they spend online, the worse they feel.”

When AI comes, they will be a real unhappy bunch. Unprepared, unskilled, uneducated, and unemployed and not warned. They will be really demanding the guaranteed living income from government by then, as discussed on these pages. Government will increase in size, producers will decrease. Too much idle time on one's hands is unhealthy, to put in kindly.

The more time on the internet, the worse they feel. Disneyland used to have a section called Tomorrowland. Don't know if it still exists. The new technology and breakthroughs would free us all up and we will be working less, enjoying life more, devoting our lives to recreation. No more 9-5. Well, it just has not worked out that way. Sells of RV's has not skyrocketed through the roof as projected, France is considering increasing the 30 hour work week (blasphemy), workers today at more stressed, insecure with their jobs, and a growing percentage are not taking all their vacation time off. This, in spite of technology today that was unimaginatable and unavailable just 6-7 years ago.

What could get worse? The meaning of common words will be altered, assigning them more nefarious motives than warranted and far beyond their orgin's intent, applications, and purpose. Meanings will be A new mindset.

I see a trend right now. First it was (and is) White Privilege. Now that term is beginning to evolve to mean white supremacy. Getting closer and closer to pulling out the broadbrush and making the leap to White Supremacists...all white folk. Tolerance? Yes, for some, to that point of blind acceptance like puppy love. Intolerance? Yes, like we never have seen before. Sick people do sick things. Just like unhappy people.

"The iGeners are “at the forefront of the worst mental health crisis in decades, with rates of teen depression and suicide skyrocketing since 2011.” And this cohort of new voters will determine your civil rights..."

We kicked this article below around on the Sandbox very briefly on its absurdity at first glance. Renaming a horse is not the point. The point is it contains one particular sentence. That sentence contains a two word phrase I am seeing with increasing occurrence, replacing White Privilege: white supremacy

asked students not to be quiet, and reminded that “white supremacy hits close to home” and referenced the name of the Trojans mascot.

Don't ask if it could get any worse. They are but the first of the iGeners, leaving college this year and next. Unprepared, uneducated, and unknowing. It ain't going to get better with AI's help.


re: BillT@2:35PM

If it wasn't the White Privilege trope, I suspect it would just be something else. When you're not really *for* anything the easiest sales job is to be against something, even if you have to invent it. The best propaganda always has a bad guy. In addition, the ability for professionals to manipulate a population is going up faster than the populations ability to withstand it. You don't need a real threat anymore to get those boots trampin' in time.

But, I'd be surprised if the 'Kill the Boer' song keeps up for that much longer. Xenophilia just doesn't strike me as a philosophy with legs, unless it lasts long enough for real demographics shifts. I suppose this last is always possible given the hydraulic pressure we'll feel from overpopulation in parts of the Third World combined with easier transport. Put another way, the Left in the Western World appears to have a weak core philosophy and will have a tendency to fission over time.

Oooh, I thought of another reading assignment if you run into the book (at some small risk of invoking Godwin's Law):

Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State / Aly

One take away from that book is that much of the traction for the behavior of Hitler's Germany is not political or philosophical, but simply avarice. The Party made darned sure that people were well fed, given lots of job opportunities, had lots of material goods, and heavily reduced inequality in society. This was at the cost of those viewed as 'others' of course, not just within the country, but also in any conquered countries. The conquering and pillaging biz is nothing new of course.

It's worth considering that political movements cook up enemies not just to provide a coherence, but simply because they have stuff and you want stuff.

Bill Tozer

"By any comparison they make the “dumbest generation” look smart.

So here is what the one-two punch of union public schools and social media have produced in a progressive politically correct world."

Well, they won the Cultural War. No use beating about the bush. I remember when the big push was for mere self esteem. As someone once uttered about the LA United School District, "They failed at math and the language arts scores, but they sure feel good about themselves!" Hmmmm. That brilliant idea sounded so splendidly deliciously fantastic at the time. More nurturing needed. Well, self esteem is important, no doubt about it. They killed it. The own the Cultural War Victory Memorial, complete with sculpture. Hat tip to them.

It saddens they are unhappy. But, on the positive side, The Culture War is not the only war. There is another war going on, the Political War. Always a silver lining.

Todd Juvinall

Sheriff Joe walking the streets again. Great day!

Bill Tozer

Well, that did not take long. About half the nation are White Supremacists now.

Scenes:@ aug 25, 3:03 pm.
Perhapsa you are right. Perhaps I am making too much of this whole thing. Sure, emotions cannot be sustained indefinetily, inflamed passions subside, and the polite highly educated school boys only chanted "Kill the Beast" until they were rescued. There will another Boogeyman just around the corner for them to blame for their pathetic lost way in life.

But then again, 3 generations of education since our own Cultural Revolution has brought us to this post. 3 generations has erased a lot of things, including (for example) the manner youth addresses adults, teachers, store clerks, and the delivery guy. It's all on a first name basis now. The teacher is Sue or Dave, the mail carrier is Lou. Whatever happened to Mr. and Mrs.? Imagine Dennis the Menace saying "Hello George!" to Mr. Wilson. Youth addressing bosses, the elderly, those with some kind of position, rank, or authority over them by "Mr or Mrs Wilson" is gone with the wind. Takes just three generations for a permanent change. We are not all equal in life in a sense. The elderly have rank over me because of age as well does an employer, just like a coach carries authority over his little Leaugue players. Not equal. Hmmm. Since we are all equal now in our positions in life, call me anything but Sarah Lee. That sounds too much like Robert Lee, the play by play sports announcer.

3 generations of the liberals' monopoly of controlling government run public education has brought us this:

Not sure what the educational value is, but it's part of The Cultural Revolution, I reckon. The 3 R's are struggling, but the 4th R (referring to another by their preferred name of the passing moment) is doing fine. How can it get any worse? Living the Dream!


re: BillT@7:43AM

Perhaps modern schooling isn't so much cause as effect. I would hope that even the local Pellinistas are not particularly in favor of the madness of the modern college campus, but I'll make a case for it in one sense.

If the prime focus of a successful adult life has evolved roughly as follows (in the most general terms):

. Small family farming, requiring OJT mostly. Family ties
. Higher end trades, requiring apprenticeships. Good social skills.
. Factory work, requiring short term specialized eduction. High degree of conformity
. Engineering and design, requiring longer term higher quality education. High ability to view the world in a virtual, model-like form
...followed by
. Systemic unemployment, use of people as the robot's fingers and arms with fewer specialized 'knowledge' jobs needed

Perhaps modern post K-12 schooling had to change and now makes all the sense in the world (and K-12 for that matter). It not only gets people off the street for 5+ years (much as prison does in the bad part of candidate for why crime rates are down), but provides a young adult with an incredible amount of training in non-competitive self-esteem. In a sense, it's a way to keep your sanity when it turns out you have absolutely nothing useful to do.

In a world that will increasingly consist of just hanging out or performing non-jobs like trying to sell ads on the internet, modern schools are a training ground for keeping your sanity and self-worth.

George Rebane

Messrs Tozer and Scenes - Good thoughts; we seem to have a common understanding; however, I don't hold much hope for "the local Pellinistas" ever perceiving "the madness of the modern college campus."

Todd Juvinall

Pelline has posted an article on the ten worst "white trash" cities of California. Grass Valley is on the list. But wait, since the idiot did not even bother to check, most of the towns are mostly "Hispanic" and in the central valley. You cannot make up Pelline's lack of smarts.


re: ToddJ@1:18PM

Oh well, it's no huge thing, although GV is pretty far from looking like what people consider a "White Trash" area. Not enough Camaros on cinder blocks for one thing, plus there are remarkably few trailers considering.

I'm fine with poking a bit of fun at the various subgroups of the human zoo. The beautiful thing is when the religiously politically correct end up doing it accidentally. The ACLU 'white kid' tweet and then de-tweet was pretty sweet, but here's my favorite as of late:

It's hard to go wrong with stories like...

Hell, in a few decades of cell phone usage, CNN will have the headline: God-Emperor Trump, he no good say Paul.

Todd Juvinall

Somehow my 118 pm got the Pelline all fired up. Pointing out the towns are mostly Hispanic and in the central valley and called "white trash" is too much for him to research. What a hoot!


re: ToddJ@3:21PM

I won't bother to check out Cartman's site. Too many old angry white males and they never ever say anything amusing. It might be the sort of thing you could fix with probiotics, so that's a pro-tip of the day.

10 White Trash Towns, that appears to be the source of some argument, since GV is not on this list. Perhaps they just mean the GV Safeway.

Hemet (29% Hispanic)
Barstow (43% Hispanic)
Hesperia (52% Hispanic)
Stockton (42% Hispanic)
Bakersfield (46% Hispanic)

Maybe a 'white trash' city just means that you have a really trashy white minority, since they appear to be the minority in all of those towns. I guess that's possible.

That guy should probably stick to selling wine and issuing 'scoops' about local politics. It's not a terrible role to play in the community and it's never too late to work on your popularity.

Bill Tozer

Where's Blythe on the list? Once broke down there. 112 degrees by 9 in the morning, as I hitchedhiked across the wastelands to any hellhole called civilization, or the first telephone booth.. Make it to a truck stop and it was 118, topped out at 119 degrees that day, official temps. It did occur to me that I could have died out there, standing in the blazing sun without water...until I caught an angel of mercy ride in.

The truck stop was hotter than that cause the AC broke down, and they had large bowls of ice on the counters with fans behind the melting ice. Made my call, and as luck would have it, the nearsest Westetn Union was exactly where I was at. I grabbed a free bunk ( well, they never asked me if I was a truck driver, lol) and laid down for some relief and rest. Those boys in there were tossing and turning and farting and sweating like the stuffed pigs they were and I could not even breathe in that bunk room. Talk about white trash! Ok, there was trashy Hispanics there too.

Went outside and this old vet was selling watermelons out of the back of his pickup across the way. I asked if I could lay down under his pickup and it was no problem. He kept calling out "Watermelon, get your watermelon" but I did not care one bit, nor did I care if I was laying on dirty oily asphalt under that pickup... slept pretty good.
The next morning my Western Union gram came in. Sweet. Then I noticed a sign over the counter: "Banks don't sell oil, we don't cash money grams". Darn.

So, where is Blythe on the list???? Wait, I never actually went into that town. Truckstop was outside of town on a hill overlooking the hellhole of civilization. Nevermind.

Oh yeah, I forgot The Topic!!! iGeners, right? Ok. This will do in a pinch.

George Rebane

Gentlemen, check the topic of this commentary. Sandbox please.

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