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21 August 2017

Comments

Bill Tozer

Re: Trump's speech.

Here comes Punchy yelling Trump is a Liar! Liar-in-Chief.

Bill Tozer

Well, well, well. Trump will need his vote come tax reform time.
Punchy loves to quote thiis. guy:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/21/lindsey-graham-proud-trumps-decision-gloves-are-off-inside-afghanistan.html

As to Dr. Rebane's point, killing terrorists is better than nation building. Won't get them al, but it's a good way to test out our new weapons system. We had the bunker buster, the Daisy Cutter, the (assuming the bomb's gender) we had MOAB. Boy, this will give McCain a smile on his face as well.

Paul Emery

What is your definition of a liar Bill ? Is it something like say one thing and do something else ? Trump liar in chief There are endless examples '

Bill Tozer

Easy answer: you

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

I have to admit that I think it would be more effective to simply quarantine places that are full of crazy people, but evidently that's considered both unconstitutional and immoral.

No doubt clarity of mission will make a big difference if that turns out to be a side effect.

Sadly, if you really wanted to go after the hotbeds of terrorism, you'd be parachuting into Western Europe, 3rd world immigration having already done it's bit of magic there.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Year Zero:

https://i.imgur.com/b118V1d.jpg

Paul Emery

can you document a couple of "lies" you allege I made?
So Trump is not a liar in your view.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Year Zero.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: Bill Nye the 'science' guy

Not particularly fair, but it made me laugh.

https://imgur.com/YnPnDal

fish

Posted by: ScenesFromTheApocalypse | 22 August 2017 at 07:25 AM


Yeah…..the anorexic Michael Moore…..that act is tired!

fish

Not good….!


“Those sailors did not have the basic seamanship skills, but by God, they got their sensitivity training, they got their race relations training, they got their sexual harassment training.”


I think it's safe to assume that no one was harassed during the recent spate of naval collisions.


http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/21/uss-mccain-collision-us-navy-bad-way-right-now

Bill Tozer

NASA showing the eclipse was a buzz kill? I forgot about the whole thing. With a the smoke hanging around from the little grass fire down near Beale, I just figured it was residue hanging in the air all day. Never occurred to me that the eclipse was going on. Didn't seem to make any difference out walking the wolf pack.

NASA: Need Another Seven Astronaunts. Yep, that joke is tired as well. And very dated.

George Rebane

Lies and lying are human notions over which much emotions are exercised, and notions which are seldom critically examined and therefore poorly understood. Contrary to pornography, one can/should not say, 'I don't know how to define it but I know when I see it.' A critical examination was presented here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/10/lies-and-lying.html

In the above comments we encounter an accusation which illustrates the thin veneer of reason that underlies most such accusations. If a person in good faith asserts A and later receives information which causes him to revise his thinking, and again in good faith assert B, then by any reasonable basis A was NOT a lie. People who make such accusations are doing it to cynically advance an agenda or simply out of ignorance.

Jaye Smith

Flip-flopping and explanations similar to 'I was for it before I was against it' are now de rigueur in the conservotron mind.

It was 'so bad' when John Kerry uttered the above phrase and conservo crows cackled on and on about it. Now it is fine.

It was 'so bad' when Obama went golfing or left the White House grounds on the public's dime. Now the Secret Service is broke because of Trump's many golf junkets and ego massaging rallies.

Yesterday's conservo crows are today's conservo crickets.

Todd Juvinall

Looks like this new Jaye Smith is posting the same things on my blog. Hi Michael!

Paul Emery

George

using your lens about what you consider to be lying do you consider it a lie when Obama claimed that those insured under Obamacare could retain their own doctors and their premiums would not increase?

Bill Tozer

Oh fakesnewsman.

Obama did not say 'their premiums would not increase." Obama said the average Joe Blow would save two thousand five hundred dollars a year. Obama repeated over 21 times that The Affordable Care Act would not cost the Treasury one dime. Not one red cent, not one thin dime, not one tenth of a dollar. Hurry, hurry, hurry, step up and see the Greatest Show on Earth.

We know now through Guberization that Obama said those words knowing full well and being completely informed in advance that those statements he uttered was a bold faced lie...he knew full well the real facts before, during, and after he uttered his fiction.. But, Bush lied! Bush lied! Trump lied! Trump lied! Trump lied! Squawk! Punchy want a cracker, NOW! Liar-n-Chief, squawk! Liar in Chief, SQUAWK. Punchy want a cracker,now!

George Rebane

PaulE 1144am - Adding on to Mr Tozer's excellent 1144am, my answer is YES. Obama lied about that one aspect of Obamacare not once, but multiple times, all the while knowing - as glaringly revealed by Gruber - that the new healthcare law would do no such things. Obama's was a purposive and very successful spate of lies. To argue otherwise is to argue that Obama was dismally ignorant about the main facets of his namesake legislation. But then again, 'dismally ignorant' was one of his strong suits, so you're welcome to make the argument.

Bill Tozer

Eclipse

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1152882718179097/?type=3&theater

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Year Zero:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH1cy56VYAAmfNb.jpg
http://nbc4i.com/2017/08/22/statue-vandalized-at-camp-chase-confederate-cemetery-in-west-columbus/

Paul Emery

George, is this Trump statement, which was made without one shred of evidene a lie ?

"In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally"

In other words is wishing something were true evidence of truth?

Walt

Now Paul. Don't forget "not a smidgen of corruption within the IRS".
LOL... Why are So many LIB states refusing to give up voter records?
Ca. refuses,, TOO many illegals casted votes? Yup A Progressive would want that info hid and never to see the light of day. Motorvoter Paul,, Ca. gives illegals driver's licences.
You can bet a voter reg. goes with it. NO questions asked.
So fork over the documentation that illegals are NOT voting. There is plenty that says they are. (that should make Paul go into hiding the rest of the day.)

Paul Emery

Walt

Does that qualify as proof that 3-5 "million illegal votes" were cast?

Don Bessee

Is this thread a time warp back to Nov 10 2016? Sure sounds like it is for the po' ol' fakenewsman. ;-)

Walt

Can you say proof positive that didn't?,,,, Paul?
Your in that " no voter info to DC." camp. But you have no problem with DC having your medical records. (remember that?)

Your only bitching because your gal didn't win. If the shoe was on the other foot, and Hillary won, but Trump got the popular vote, you would be the last one whining.

Walt

Back to current events,,, Now that Paul has had some learn'n time,,, You in the ANTIFA camp Paul?

Paul Emery

Not a repeat. It's a thoughtful discussion of what constitutes a lie. I contend that lying includes making a statement as fact based on no evidence other than personal suspicion to justify a desirable end.

Walt

Then you MUST agree Paul, that the guy YOU voted for, LIED!... Fibbed.. Blew smoke out his ass.. Wrote checks with his mouth, his butt couldn't keep. I knew used care salesmen that were more honest.

So Just what has Trump lied about? Still waiting to hear what high crimes or misdemeanors. that warrant impeachment. No repeating what your gal "Mad" Maxine is barking.(she has nothing either)

Paul Emery

Lied about Obama being born in Kenya over and over Walt

Paul Emery

Just one example

" "His grandmother in Kenya said, 'Oh, no, he was born in Kenya and I was there and I witnessed the birth.' She's on tape. I think that tape's going to be produced fairly soon. Somebody is coming out with a book in two weeks, it will be very interesting."

Never happened but he spoke to it as if it were fact.

Walt

Nice try Paul.. No revisionism. Hillary hatched that. Then you forget that Trump "cleared the air" on that.
That doesn't change the fact that "O" acted as a closet Muslim. (his actions, inactions, and what he REFUSED to say, speak volumes to that fact)

Paul Emery

Of course Walt keep in mind that Trump himself accused Bush of lying about the war in Iraq and wanted him impeached. Was that accusation a lie or was it true? Your call? Truth or a lie.

Walt

Give it a rest Paul. Your making yourself into a fool of epic proportions.
Sorry you old geezer, not impeachable offences, and still doesn't rise to the level of lies by your guy "O".

Walt

BTW your gal Nancy thinks they can take back 80 seats come next election. (NOT bloody likely.) But count one losing a few more.

Paul Emery

Obama closet Muslim Walt? Do you believe that or are you perpetuating a lie. Give me an example.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Life in these United States.

https://i.redd.it/ylbcl1lkwbhz.jpg

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Kid Rock speaks:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/22/kid-rock-fck-colin-kaepernick/

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

lol. Bad China. Bad.

https://imgur.com/oL4FbO2

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

So much for the last decade or so of US foreign policy. Good job everybody.

https://archive.fo/VdcX0

Walt

Your supposed to be a "newsman" You sure suck at it.
Evidence 1
http://www.catholic.org/news/politics/story.php?id=65915
Evidence 2
http://www.catholic.org/news/politics/story.php?id=65949
Evidence 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY ("O" admits he's a Muslim)

But I doubt you will even go there. You never do.
Hell.. "O" could never use the words "Islamic terrorists" ( can't condemn one of your own)

Walt

Scenes.. Kid Rock just picked up a million votes.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

GEOTUS in Yuma. In August. Good man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1je7UUM7aQ

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Good kid, the future of America. GEOTUS in Phoenix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNtARHkWCJ4

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

lol. These people really have lost their minds.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/08/21/aba-seeks-to-admit-illegal-aliens-to-the-bar-declare-courthouses-sanctuaries/

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/22/court-blocks-major-pipeline-approvals-says-feds-didnt-consider-climate-change/?utm_source=site-share

"The lawsuit was odd given at least some of the natural gas would have been used to retire older, coal-fired power plants. Natural gas emits less carbon dioxide than coal when burned for energy, and lowering U.S. CO2 emissions is ostensibly a goal of the environmental movement."

Gotta love it.

Obviously this has 0% to do with the environment (it might even be a negative number) and 110% to do with obstructionist politics.

Walt

Well,, the new coal mines will pick up the slack. Good job LIBS,, your really thought that one through. Have another bong hit.

Paul Emery

Walt

Did you actually watch your 4:05 and do you believe it? Good grief.

Todd Juvinall

Hey Walt, the guy that makes things up all the time wants to know if you are making things up. So funny!

Walt

Paul. Do you actually believe half the crap you spew? There is no medication for selective memory loss.

Paul Emery

No seriously Walt did you watch that piece and do you believe it? Worried about you.

Walt

What's with all the questions? You expect an answer? Tell ya' what. YOU start answering a few. Answers from you are as elusive as Bigfoot. The difference is, I have SEEN an actual footprint of the "big guy" in the wild. An honest answer from you,, not so much.

Walt

That would make you stare at the eclipse without protection.

George Rebane

PaulE 128pm - It would be a lie if he purposely made a claim he knew to be false. The debate on the number of fraudulent votes is still ongoing, presenting evidence that is most acceptable to the Right and totally rejected by the Left.

Paul Emery

So George a lie is saying something you KNOW is not true. Is that your definition of a lie? Therefore Trump did not tell a lie when he claimed to win the popular vote because he had a suspicion there were enough fraudulent votes in Clinton's favor to change the majority. Is that a correct assessment of your position?

Bill Tozer

Let's talk about Punchy's lies! Nevermind. Only others lie.

Walt

Let it go Paul. Let me know where I can witness you walk on water.(I will check for the rocks first.)
Whatever fibs he may or may not have said, is immaterial to the real lies and fabrications done by the LIB media. Like make up an issue where there wasn't. That's the real crime.

Walt

Trump is sure telling it like it is.
OH,, LIB media is going to be pissed. Trump is the only one who could break the age old rule of " Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel." and get away with it. Hell he's taken on the whole gang. He has more of their blood, than they have of his.

Bill Tozer

The topic of lies is interesting, especially in the political realm. It is easy to Google some paper with all the types of lies listed and their numerous variances, but I will just take a stab at it off the top of my mellon.

1) Malice and forethought. When a little kid begs mommie and daddy to get a puppy and the child swears up and down with solemn promises (cross my heart, hope to die, poke a needle in my eye) they will take care of the little adorable furry ball.....and three months later they lose interest in the puppy and the once unshakeable devotion to the puppy's needs are neglected.....was that a lie? When your teenager promises to be home at midnight and truly believes it at the time when the promises and solemn oaths were uttered, but does not bring the car home at the time promised, was that a lie? In both cases they believed they were telling the truth when their promises were uttered, but one could argue they lied. Or one could argue they did not lie, they were mistaken. Or circumstances came up (new information) that need to be considered before passing judgement, i. e., flat tie, etc.

2) Misinfornation: I have always believed that misinformation is far worse than having no information. If someone (like some journalists) are fed misinformation and print it, did the journalists lie? A prime example was Ben Rhodes feeding young NYT reporters the line that the Obama Administration was dealing with moderates in Iran. Because Mr. Rhodes got cocky, he later spilled the beans to The New Yorker that there is no moderate factions in the Iranian government. They don't exist, but he lied to the journalists, boasting later he knew full will the 26 year old reporters do not do their own research and believed everything they were being fed. Did the journalists lie when writing that Obama was dealing with moderate factions in the Iranian government? Technically yes. But they were fed misinformation.

3) The sin of omission. Your Honor, my client did not assault Mr. Smith (but we won't mention he stole Mr. Smith's wallet and car keys when Mr. Smith tripped by his own clumsiness and fell to the ground). Technically the truth. A classic example from a bygone era of morality is this: A man mets a woman to have a fling in a hotel room. Upon registration, the desk clerk asks, "Are you married?" Both answer yes. The lie of omission is they told the truth when answering in the affirmative they were indeed married, but the lie of omission was "yes, but not to each other."

Then the more common bold face lies, as laid out by this Senator:

https://youtu.be/FJz3SliN2eM

White lies, fibs, stretching the truth, deceit, sins (lies) of omission, being fed misinformation, absence of malice, believing wrong information, mistaken, new evidence emerging to take into consideration and reversing one's previously uttered statements, weaving a yarn for a good story, and bold faced lies. Technically, one could argue they are all "lies" or fall into the lying category, but not all lies are equal in size, shape, or dimension.

"I was wrong" is so friggin hard for folks to say, but I ain't no shrink or expert on human behavior.

Paul Emery

Bill I invited you to make a list of my lies Apparently you can't do it

Bill Tozer

Pablo Paunchy, I stated two off the top of my head clearly in the Sandbox @ 11:05 am this morning, opening sentences. Now make that 3 lies, as your 9:26 PM clearly is another lie. To count all your lies would take more time and crayolas thanI have to explain it to you.
. You don't lie Punchy, you just have a major problem with the truth. No one is more qualified than you to do your job. And I seriously mean no one IS more qualified.

Suck it up, Buttercup. Your invitation means so much to me. Hey, I lied.

Bill Tozer

Some one has a big credibility issue. I have no idea who or whom that may be.

Don Bessee

Man there are a lot of druid droppings around here..... ;-)

George Rebane

PaulE 128pm - Paul, what part of my 847am did you not understand?

Todd Juvinall

Union Newspaper poll on who is to blame for the violence in Charlottesville. Pelline will have a coronary along with Frisch.

http://apps.theunion.com/utils/polling/poll_results.php?poll_ident=5015

George Rebane

ToddJ 1040am - Thanks for that heads up Todd. As we all know, it do take two to tango, and the last partner showing up starts the band a'playin'.

Bill Tozer

Afghanistan:
Seems likely we will never leave that place for decades entirely. If no other reason than America's interests. Interests? Not oil, minerals, raw materials, but interests of Nation Security, regional security, and Eurasian security.

America's longest war. Alexander the Great, the British, the Soviets, the Americans......nobody ever "won" in Afganistain. Why? Because as the Soviets found out, you can capture the Capitol and the few 'major' hubs, but you only control 10% of the country.
There is a valid reason to prevent ISIS from filling the void in Afghanistan. Once it was Al Qaeda setting up shop there (our reason for going in after 9/11), now we have ISIS seeking a safe home. The destruction/degradation of ISIS is a worthy goal, if not imperative.

But, it is fighting the Tailban that concerns me. More involvement. Another layer. They control 40% of the country and confront a very weak central government. Some might argue that Afghanistan has a government in name only, weak, loose, and ineffectual at best. Basically, the government in Kabul is a mere fort surrounded by the frontier, IMHO. The pickle is we have to prop up and strengthen the 'central' government there to prevent the Tailiban from taking more control and giving safe haven to ISIS, ala Osama bin Ladin deja vu. Thus, it is more than just killing Islamic jihadists, Islamic Terrorism. It is also preventing ISIS from filling the void in Afganistan by ISIS taking the road controlled by the Taliban. Oh my.

Pat Buchanan's take:
http://buchanan.org/blog/trumps-agenda-eclipsed-127529

Michael Barone's take:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/michael-barone-trumps-palmerstonian-policy/article/2632408

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/michael-barone-trumps-palmerstonian-policy/article/2632408

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: BillT@9:38AM

Russians vs. Afghanistan, a not bad book on the subject

"Afgantsy: The Russians in Afghanistan, 1979-1989", Braithwaite

It gave me a change in attitude towards their behavior there. It didn't come down so different from a Western 'humanitarian' intervention.

I did have some hope listening to the Secretary of State. Trying to install an administration in the country that rhymes in any way with a Western one seems like a fool's errand. I think I need to know more about the governments there, such as they were, previous to the 1970's.

Todd Juvinall

Looks like the POC police are now covering up the statues with BLACK tarps. I wonder if that is subliminal?

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