‘Gun Violence’, girding for the next chapter

George Rebane

With the Las Vegas massacre still fresh in the news, and memories of previous such shootings indelibly burned into our collective memories, the ongoing debate in these pages about preventing children from accidentally shooting themselves or others assumes a heightened focus and an inevitably extended scope.  We are all standing by for the new spate of progressive platitudes and proposed proscriptions of the lawful ownership and possession of guns guaranteed by the Second Amendment.  This guarantee is not recognized by many of our newly educated citizens, most leftwing politicians, and all lamestream journalists.  But the only guarantee we have is that when the dust of the latest tragedy settles, and it will settle, this next chapter of the debate will leave us more separated than ever – the Great Divide ratchet turneth.

So, back to preventing accidental gun deaths.  I wonder what would happen to current statistics if children were taught about gun safety in kindergarten and/or first grade.  Today concerned parents have no hope of denying their child’s knowledge of the existence and, yes, the romance of guns since the world’s cultures glorify their existence as objects of power, adventure, status, justice, crime, coming of age, … .  Today all of this is drummed into the heads of the little darlins through immensely popular and engaging shoot-‘em-up computer games, realistic movies, and TV/online videos available 24/7 on the youngsters’ phones and pads.  And the more such parents attempt to keep children from having early ‘gun experiences’, the more attractive guns become to kids as the forbidden fruit that when serendipitously discovered, must immediately be handled, explored, surreptitiously shared, etc.

As a youngster (and child war veteran) in 1950s middle America, I was as interested in guns as were any of my friends.  In those days fathers (mine included) put guns into the hands of their sons (and many daughters) when they were, by today’s standards, very young.  I got my Red Ryder Daisy BB gun when ten, and my first 22 mag-fed bolt action rifle when thirteen.  (One of my grandsons now has it.)  I taught my children and grandchildren about guns and gun safety before they were five, and to shoot before they were eight.

Before the age of political correctness it was rare to hear of a youngster tragically discharging a found firearm.  Although kids did have their share of hunting accidents when improperly handling their firearms.  But then such accidents were not political or politicized events, no one became hysterical as a result and started militating for some new draconian laws or regulations that proscribed or constructively denied the then legal ownership and disposition of guns.  Overall, these were viewed as childhood accidents similar to when a kid seriously injured himself on a swing or other playground equipment, or riding his bicycle, swimming, climbing trees, or … .  These were simply tragic accidents the solution to which was more/better safety training.  We recognized that life lived to the fullest has inherent dangers, and their attempted eradication would also eliminate other unintended desiderata that contributed to our quality of life – in sum, the overzealous quest for safety itself has a price, as we see all around us today.

Are we really a better society as a result of fifty years of social histrionics wherein we have sought to impress each other with our social consciousness and caring that today mandates almost everything that we do, say, or think.  How many mass shootings did we have when young people knew more about guns and had easier access to them?

Comments

[George Rebane]

Administrivia - the gun accidents/violence debate hereunder continues from the 29sep17 sandbox here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2017/09/sandbox-29sep17.html

[Gregory]

Now, who was it that was dead set against forcing people sending their kids to publicly funded schools to vaccinate their kids, or home school them if they refuse without there being a damned good medical reason for their child to opt out?

Paul Emery.

Now, having declared himself not an owner of an icky gun (or so he says), he wants folks that choose to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights to jump through hoops that do much much less to protect kids than vaccines do.

[Paul Emery]

Just trying to raise awareness of the gun slaughter of American children Gregory. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

[bunbun]

Shooter was from Mesquite just down the road from Cliven Bundy's place...any connection?

[fish]

Posted by: bunbun | 02 October 2017 at 02:06 PM

Internet handle is "bunbun" and lives in reasonable proximity to a certain local spherical newsman………think about it!

[Gregory]

Just pointing out your hypocrisy, Paul, and I'm not sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.

[Walt]

No TROLLING here Dougbun,, save that for your other TROLL names on the other sites.
The odds are better than not that is POS was a LIB. This is what crazed LIBS do.

[Account Deleted]

from Paul - "Sure it would save lives Scott. You are ignorant to say it won't. What is the value of one childs life that could be saved by gun registration.=?"
There's two parts to this, Paul. The first is calling me 'ignorant' because I pointed out that you have provided no proof whatever to back up your claims. Why don't you name the children whose lives would have been saved by your proposed law. Let's keep in mind it's already against the law for those kids to bring a gun to school and that law obviously doesn't seem to do much good. And keep in mind that the folks with stolen guns aren't going to register them. I brought up several reasons and facts about why your law will do no good and all you can do is call me ignorant. Pretty much par for the course with you lefties.
As far as the value of a child's life? I assume you mean the ones outside of the womb. Various hearings and trials have placed the value of a child's life at an astoundingly varied dollar amount. Some are worth maybe 10 grand while another might be worth millions. Seems to depend on how deep the pockets are of the party having to pay.
It is usually a matter of whether or not it is your child or some one you don't even know. Seems to make a big difference.
Of course the main problem here is the fact that Paul presents a false choice. We can reduce the amount of kids getting killed with guns by other means than simply trying to wave the magic wand of gun registration.

[Account Deleted]

"Just trying to raise awareness of the gun slaughter of American children Gregory."
You see? This is called virtue signalling. Paul wraps himself up in this flag of moral superiority and then shows up here with BS and believes he has no need to provide facts or reason or proof of anything other than his on-going self-aggrandizement by simply repeating over and over how 'concerned' he is about the 'children'.

[Gregory]

Walt 212

Please stop the bigotry... there's no good reason to declare the shooter was a liberal. None. Just STFU and listen while the FBI does its job (let's be thankful Comey isn't involved).

[Todd Juvinall]

Robert Cross | 02 October 2017 at 11:45 AM
The last sandbox.

No BobbieC, you are the BSer You make fake news every time you post. Making a pass through on my personal blog of someone else;s comment is not fake news. But you passing along complete lies you make up about others is. So you are an ISIS lover, and I feel bad for you. The FBI may not like that. Anyway, you are just a local skunk without any facts about anything. Go back into your rabbit hole and stay away.

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery why don't you answer? Do you support the banning of DDT in Africa which has resulted in the deaths of millions of African children? Come on now, you can do it.

[Paul Emery]

Scott

Amazing that you attribute cash as the value of a child.

Scott, guns are the second largest cause of accidental death for children second only to automobile accidents. That is established fact. In my opinion gun registration would help as would strict accountability for the gun owner if a child has access to guns in they own.

Here's an article to read from Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2017/06/19/american-denial-about-facts-on-guns-continues-to-kill-children/#15111cbd4a9a

[Todd Juvinall]

You are a total hypocrite Paul Emery. And you said you never had a child as well. So what do you know?

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 02:52 PM

You'll probably want to start lobbying your legislators Paul.

[Account Deleted]

"Amazing that you attribute cash as the value of a child."
Uh, Paul - can you read? I said various trials and hearings. I didn't ascribe any dollar amount to a child. Just passing along the fact that society doesn't seem to have a fixed value of a child's life. As Todd has been pointing out, you seem to have a different value of a child's life depending on whether they are killed with a gun vs killed with malaria.
You keep repeating the same 'fact' about guns killing children but have provided none concerning your sure-fire fix. Until you educate yourself about the different circumstances regarding these tragedies, your opinion isn't worth a plug nickel.
Parents are already strictly accountable for their children's actions. And there are already laws concerning childrens access to anything they are not supposed to possess.
You need to provide proof of incidents of children having illegal access to fire arms resulting in death/s in which it was impossible to determine who was at fault concerning their access to said firearm because of the lack of registration of that firearm providing that is was legally owned.

[Paul Emery]

Quote from Scott

"As far as the value of a child's life? I assume you mean the ones outside of the womb. Various hearings and trials have placed the value of a child's life at an astoundingly varied dollar amount. Some are worth maybe 10 grand while another might be worth millions. Seems to depend on how deep the pockets are of the party having to pay. "

[Account Deleted]

Paul - the article from Forbes was a joke from the start. It is full of false logic and a lack of comprehensive charts of the stats involved. The author provides as much proof as you have that full gun registration will solve this problem. Because she and you have no such proof.

[fish]

Honestly I don't know we still offer to provide free entertainment to Punch and his respective causes and issues? He is incapable of honest argument (most recently the accusation that Scott was responsible for the assignment of a dollar value to the life of a child. Sorry Punch courts and insurance companies have been doing that for years) and frankly allowing him to indulge himself in his "Uncle Punch-E Rope-a-Dope and Good Time Politics Comedy Hour" is just tedious at this point.

Really Punch, if you are serious about this you need to stop wasting your free time here and start hitting the pavement to get your plan enacted. There will be no shortage of pretentious fellow virtue signalers in congress who will be happy to help (don't forget to bring your checkbook)!

[George Rebane]

re PaulE's 252pm - First, it appears that the cited article by Tara Haelle is fraudulent, and most certainly as a liberal unmarried 'science journalist' with neither a STEM degree nor children, her books about children, especially child rearing, range between unfounded and fraudulent. And her wordsmithing the stats on child gun casualties while leaving out the gang-age and gang-prone population segments, in which illegal ownership of guns and gun violations are rampant (and for which more constructive gun confiscation laws are useless), is simply another example of what today is called fake news, a deliberate agenda-driven attempt to mislead readers in the important Second Amendment debate. It is the sum and stuff of cultural Marxism disguised as progressive pabulum.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/20/science-journalist-tara-haelle-protect-children-rid-home-guns/

[Gregory]

Paul, in a court of law, there will be a cash value assigned to the loss of a child, a spouse, a brother, a parent. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. In western courts, money is what can change hands under civil law.

While any intentional shooting that is not in defense of life is wrong, the death rates for childhood diseases that you don't believe in vaccinating for as a price to send a child to a publicly funded school were something like 500 times higher. The 1300 number shouldn't be relied upon as it very probably includes mutual combat between armed gangs including boys under 18 in towns like Chicago. Valid police shootings of kids with guns, too.

[Paul Emery]

Of course there is no "proof" that proposed legislation will solve the problem. there never is. However in my view it's a step in the right direction.

Not impressed by Forbes Scott? Here's from the American Academy of Pediatrics

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2017/06/15/peds.2016-3486

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 03:37 PM

However in my view it's a step in the right direction.

Well what's your next move Paul?

[George Rebane]

On the face of it, going for more gun laws that only affect law-abiding citizens without yet enforcing the ones already on the books is one-up on Einstein's definition of insanity. (see also ScottO's 316pm) Yet that mental state provides a nurturing comfort to liberals, for whom it also serves as a visible badge of membership in their collectivist cabal.

[Walt]

Paul.. Ca.'s 10 day waiting period was supposed to cure all that.
In the end it only killed people. Those needing a gun and had to wait. Then the one they needed a gun against,, killed them
There is plenty of proof on that. Not that it would change your aged mind one bit.

[Walt]

Now isn't this special? The LIB trying to prove he has a soul?
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrat-postpones-effort-to-impeach-trump-after-las-vegas-shooting/article/2636291/comments

Like impeachment is going to happen at all.

[Bill Tozer]

Lad Vegas
A horrific mass murder takes place and those with ice water in their veins call for more laws. They be progressive and liberal politicians. No new law would have stopped the carnage in Vegas. No, you can’t pass a quick background check and buy an automatic weapon at some gun show. No, you can’t walk into a gun store and buy an automatic weapon. Machine guns have been illegal since the Tommy guns. There are a few exceptions for historical collection purposes, like museums and the like.

So, why do those with ice water in their veins decry violence and call for more laws as the families of the dead are in indescribable pain and grief. The wounded have had their lives shattered, never to be the same. The killer pulled a page from the ISIS playbook and shot unarmed men and women and young people in the back.

Meanwhile, it was once again the LE that charged straight into the direction of where the bullets were coming from to risk their lives to save others. Once again it was the American people on the scene who protected and aided the wounded and the fleeing. Once again, it was the first responders on the scene. Once again, like Houston and Irma, the American people (ordnardy citizens and civilians) joined with law enforcement to help, aid, and rescue the distraught.....while politicians wring their hands and play politics before the bodies are properly buried by their devasted families.

Like the Dallas PD who were protecting and guarding BLM marchers as another psychopath opened fire, killing 5 officers and wounded nine others. It was the police and first responders who rushed towards danger, while Obama invited those who chanted “Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon” to the White House, multiple times. It is people like Colin Cancer Kap that wears socks depicting cops as pigs who play politics. Meanwhile, the call has gone out on one of my conservative site to raise two million dollars for the families of the victims. For the families. For the grieving to help with the funeraland medical expenses. As of this writing, 1.48 million has been raised in 55 minutes. Opps, make that 1.65 million, another 300K came n. Meanwhile, politicians play politics as the American people comfort the hurting.

What the families in Vegas need now is quiet in the waiting room. Not some ignorant politician that says a AR-15 is a M-1 or saying this is a National Security issue, while securing the border is not.

[Paul Emery]

Fish

To continue to express my view on this and other gun matters and support legislation sand candidates that furthers those objectives.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 04:18 PM

So nothing then……..good to know!

[Walt]

Don't be surprised if we hear "bunbun" was snuffed.
He out to piss off as many as he can. OH the things that TROLL
is saying on the Daily Caller story on the shooting.
There are a few vowing to hunt the SOB down.For the record, I'm not one of them.
Would it be wrong if I pointed in which direction he ran?

[fish]

Posted by: Walt | 02 October 2017 at 04:27 PM

link?

[Paul Emery]

Bill

Most of our mass shootings come from Americans citizens not illegal immigrants. How do you resolve that?

[Walt]

Sorry Fish,, there is no link to give. There are a good few posters ready to shut him up. The comment of "I like mass shootings" got the intended flashover.

Paul.. Blame the media hate of Trump and Trump supporters.
A vid has surfaced of the shooter attending an anti Trump protest.
Sorry,, no link. But count on it being all over the place real soon.

[Walt]

OK Paul,, Explain why all the high profile mass shootings have been done by LIBS? Care to "resolve" that?

[Gregory]

fish, Paul's next step will be to keep quoting Pediatricians who avoid inconvenient truths to generate statistics that people like Paul will point to but not quote or understand.

The statistics in that report are truly horrible for African American boys on the face of it... black kids (from infant to 17) have ten times the rate of being the victim of homicide than whites (by .35 to 3.49 per 100k)..., boys in general have nearly four times the homicides than girls (1.46 vs .40) and over nine times (2.6 vs 0.28) the rates among kids 13 thru 17 than younger.

Combining the probabilities to try to understand what the rate for African American boys older than 13 could be yields an estimate of a whopping death rate due to being intentionally shot by another among teenaged black boys might be as high as 130 per 100,000. Truly shocking numbers that the pediatricians were apparently whitewashing out of the statistics by not reporting it as a separate line item in Table 1 and as they have the raw data I can only assume they didn't want to know.

I think the upshot is that the American Academy of Pediatrics hate guns more than they love black boys, who really need support.

[Paul Emery]

What do you know about Stephen Paddock that gives you the insight that he is a so called LIB?

[fish]

Posted by: Gregory | 02 October 2017 at 04:57 PM

Well it's just that he seemed so vehement. I thought there might actually be something to his protestations this time.

[George Rebane]

I am constantly amazed at how this discussion is going with PaulE being answered, but not responding to any questions or points that counter his assertions. It's as if all responses to him wind up in a black hole.

[Paul Emery]

Walt, Timothy McVeigh may take offense to your assumption about LIBS.

[fish]

Noted local scholar weighs in…..

Joe Koyote says:

October 2, 2017 at 4:33 pm

John, I used to work in a sporting goods store that sold Colt AR 15s. Enthusiasts of that particular weapon claimed it was a very simple procedure to convert them to full auto. So, given the fact that assault style weapons, semi or full auto, have only a single purpose, to kill other human beings, it might be prudent for an ever more diverse and insane population to extremely limit who can possess such armament. The death rate just keeps climbing and the atrocities just keep getting bigger so one can only conclude that the current policies in place and those of the NRA simply do not work. It is time to clamp down on gun availability before our streets turn back into the wild west….. if they haven’t already.

Joe Koyote says:

October 2, 2017 at 4:45 pm

Apparently, it is legal to own machine guns in Nevada and other states as well.

Gee JoKe….you'd think we would be having a machine gun slaughter a week if those mods were that easy and your "diverse and insane population" were as "murdery" as you imply!

Seriously, how do you summon the courage to climb out from under your bed every day you useless rabbit?

[Gregory]

Golly, Paul, McVeigh? How many people did he shoot?

Zero?

[Walt]

The ONE questionable exception. Good going Paul. Now how bout the rest? John Wilkes Booth was a Dem. Start there.( Hell! Your old enough to have been a t Ford's Theater.) Some things never change. Actors still hate Repubs.
Like I said. There is a video out showing him at an anti Trump rally. I watched it,, now can't find it. It will turn up soon enough for you.

[Paul Emery]

Gregory, what difference does it make what race the children killed by gun violence may be?

I stand corrected Gregory, McVeigh used a bomb.

[Paul Emery]

No black hole George. 1300 children a year stands as an established fact no matter how your crew spins it.

[Walt]

As far as I can tell,, this is only the second time a full auto weapon has been used in a mass shooting.
The only other I know of was the LA. bank hold up some decades ago.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 05:19 PM

…..like I said…..nothing.

[Paul Emery]

ou live in your own little world Fish. Facts mean nothing to you if they are contrary to your predetermined opinion I have no interest in challenging that.

[Gregory]

Paul, it's inner city gang warfare, mostly young black men and boys, that are doing the shooting, and the "pediatricians" are covering it up.

Just mush it all up into 1300 kids are dying, we need to reduce the availability of guns.

Paul, you are the very model of a modern major useful idiot.

[Gregory]

PE 531
"Facts mean nothing to you if they are contrary to your predetermined opinion"

THE IRONY, IT BURNS!

[Account Deleted]

"No black hole George. 1300 children a year stands as an established fact no matter how your crew spins it."
Paul - just repeating the 'fact' of 1300 children a year dying from fire arms does absolutely nothing to reduce those numbers. You have now admitted that the reason you won't give any proof that your 'step in the right direction' will do any good is because you have no proof.
Studying the breakdown of the total number of deaths in your own words are considered by you to be 'finesse' and 'spin'.
Paul clearly has no clue as to the formal and logical way to look at and solve a problem.
And now he's dodged onto a new tack by saying that no illegal immigrants have ever been involved in a mass shooting in this country.
But what about the children that have died in this country because of illegal immigrants?
Oh - those children. Well, they clearly don't have the high value Paul claims to have with other children.
Fun fact for Paul - how many American children died from gunfire by an illegal immigrant?
Paul will now start a new topic.

[Account Deleted]

George at 5:07 - Why be amazed? When has it been any different?
Look at the Sandy Hook shootings. Folks and politicians ranted and raved about the need for new legislation to prevent such shootings and so they proceeded with their new laws that would have done absolutely nothing to prevent the Sandy Hook shootings.
A looney can still walk into a grade school today and repeat the same sad scenario.
A trained teacher with a loaded 9mm could probably stop or greatly minimize the tragedy but that is the wrong answer for the left. They would rather have more children die than admit the NRA is correct.
Fun fact for today - how many shootings have happened in schools with the president's kids in attendance?
Remember - Obama said a school is no place for guns. 'Cept of course his kids. Just not yours.

[Paul Emery]

Scott
I said that illegal immigrants have had little to do with mass shootings such as Sandy Hook or Vegas or Portland etc. Most, but not necessarily all are from white American citizens.

[Walt]

Come now Paul,, Your ignoring the fact that most mass shooters are LIBS.. You refuse to reconcile that. What is wrong with LIBS?
And all you have is McVeigh? Let's have it Ol' boy....
Why are LIBs pron to killing lots of people at one time?

[Gregory]

Paul, yes or no... mass shootings are a tiny fraction of gun homicides.

Yes or no, Paul.

The death toll in Vegas was equivalent to the average month just in the City of Chicago.

[Don Bessee]

Context matters ya po' ol' fakenewsman, especially where gang bangers are a key part of the FACTS @ 519. ;-)

[Paul Emery]

Who cares Gregory. Killing is killing and we are the most violent culture in the modern world.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 02 October 2017 at 05:31 PM

(Y)ou live in your own little world Fish. Facts mean nothing to you if they are contrary to your predetermined opinion I have no interest in challenging that.

Maybe…..but you know you're over the target when Punch starts projecting that vigorously.

[Walt]

Been to Mexico lately? Paul? Take a visit to the Middle East. How long would you keep your head after word got out a White guy was there? Ya.. Blame the white guy. Save the white guilt for yourself.

Now why are LIBS mass killers? THIRD TIME......

[Paul Emery]

Show me the numbers Walt. It is your contention. I don't necessarily believe it just because you say so. Also, What's the connection to Vegas? Do you have information that he was a LIB?

[Gregory]

FAKE NEWS Paul, no the USA is not the most violent culture in the modern world. About 94th on a list of 219, even with Chicago, sorted by murder rates per 100,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[Don Bessee]

Now you done it Gregory, you went and interjected facts into the druids rant. ;-)

[Todd Juvinall]

Mexico has more murders than the USA. Great stat chart!

[Todd Juvinall]

Brazil has 55,000 murders, more than three times the USA. Hey Paul, that country has stringent gun laws. Why do they have more murders? And they are a fairly homogenous people, race wise.

[Don Bessee]

The po' ol' fakenewsman should have a conversation on this with Hayley Geftman-Gold, she has plenty of time on her hands now. ;-)

[Walt]

OH... That ol' Paul scamper. NOW you want numbers. Pick your mass shooter Paul,, YOUR the news guy,,,, remember?(guess not..)
The POS that killed a school full of Amish girls? A Democrat.
Sandy Hook.. A Dem trigger puller. Kathy Gifford. Care to guess?
You just refuse to admit that LIBS are mass killers. It just won't fit the Lefty narrative.

[Paul Emery]

I said Modern World Gregory. Wow oh Wow. There are 126 less violent countries in the world. That makes me proud. We are certainly more violent than any European or Modern Asian Country even North Korea.

[Paul Emery]

Walt

Ill give you a break. Since you contend that most mass gun killers are LIBS just list the top 20 and a source to justify your claim.

[Paul Emery]

By the way Gregory the chart you cite is from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. Glad you accept the UN as a credible source. I'll use their data in future posts with confidence you will respect the source.

[Walt]

If you had the sense GOD gave geese,(and the memory) You should know this.
http://joeforamerica.com/2014/05/mass-murderers-democrats/

Well, most of them anyway: Now you can add Elliot Rodger – the next in a long line of mass murderers with mass murder on their minds:

THE LIST:
– Nidal Hasan – Ft Hood Shooter: Reg­istered Democrat and Muslim.
– Aaron Alexis, Navy Yard shooter – black liberal/Obama voter
– Seung-Hui Cho – Virginia Tech shooter: Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff, registered Democrat.
– James Holmes – the “Dark Knight”/Colorado shooter: Registered Democrat, staff worker on the Obama campaign, #Occu­py guy,progressive liberal, hated Christians.

– Amy Bishop, the rabid leftist, killed her colleagues in Alabama, Obama supporter.
– Andrew J. Stack, flew plane into IRS building in Texas – Leftist Democrat

– James J. Lee who was the “green activist”/ leftist took hostages at Discovery Channel – progressive liberal Democrat.
– Jared Loughner, the Tucson shooter – Leftist, Marxist.
dem mass murder– Ohio bomb plot derps were occupy Wall St leftists.
– Harris and Klebold, the Columbine Shooters – families registered Democrats and progressive Leftists.
– Bill Ayers, Weather Underground bomber – Leftist Democrat.
– Lee Harvey Oswald, Socialist, Communist and Democrat – killed Kennedy…

Why are no conservative NRA members involved in mass shootings?
Do tell.

WHY Paul WHY?????????

[Account Deleted]

"Since you contend that most mass gun killers are LIBS just list the top 20 and a source to justify your claim."
Ah - now Paul wants to have facts.
Funny - when it was Paul spouting off he didn't need facts. Then it was all just 'spin' and 'finesse'.
And of course, again we see Paul dodging the questions.
Gee - what happened to Paul's deep and abiding care for the 'children'?
Now we are on to a new spin. America as a 'violent' country.
Actually Paul - if you take out a few large cities run by Dems and lefties, we really aren't very violent at all compared to Europe.
The facts are there - look them up yourself.

[Walt]

OK Paul,,, it's your turn. Name all 1300 children you "claim" have been murdered.

[Walt]

Oh,, and who shot them, have they been prosecuted, where did the gun come from... Got it?

[Account Deleted]

I had to look that name up - Hayley Geftman-Gold - wow.
You may or may not believe what she later wrote: "My shameful comments do not reflect the beliefs of my former employer, colleagues, family, and friends. Nor do they reflect my actual beliefs..."
Uh - so, who's beliefs do they reflect? The aliens that beamed those thoughts into your porous skull?

[Account Deleted]

Oh - now Walt, you've been warned about spin and finesse. It's only Paul that can demand facts. Paul has his opinion. All you have is reality.

[Paul Emery]

Weak response Walt. I mean you go all the way back to lee Oswald-60 years to make a list.

How about the Portland Killer-"The Portland Mercury identified Christian as a fairly well-known white supremacist in the region with extreme right-wing views."

That's keeping it contemporary-Oh yeah, he didn't use a gun.

[Bill Tozer]

Bernie supports guns, but that is just a Vermont thing I reckon. Hillary put that out in the primary. Heard it myself on the ray-dee-o.

Paul Eeeeeee!
We have our share of a handful homegrown nutjobs that laws will not/cannot stop these types of killers. The nutjobs assassin who want gunning for Congressional Republicans practicing hard ball comes to mind. Yes, hardball, not softball. With that said, the real threat of open borders is it allows foreign nutjobs in to add to the mix. San Berdardino, the backyard of LA comes to mind. No thanks, we have enough.

I remember when Pat Buchanan said years ago that if you remove black on black crime from the stats, the USA would have the fourth lowest homicide rate in the developed (Western) world. I thought for sure Pat would catch hell for that, but nobody could disagree, not even MSM. 13% of the population commits 53% of the murders (2007 stats). Crickets. We dare not go there. We MUST NOT go there.

Ok, if it makes you feel better, one murder is one too many. Especially kids. Accidentally or on purpose, it’s one too many. But our laws still do not keep people from being killed by licensed drunk drivers....or licensed distracted drivers.

[Walt]

White supremacists belong to DEMS Paul,, Haven't figured that out yet?
And OH BOY!!!! You found,,,,, ONE!! What part of the word "MOST" don't you understand?
Going to pull a Nancy Pelosi and claim victory? ( One no name seat save LIBS from a clean sweep)
It's time you took your 90 proof medication and call it a night.

[Paul Emery]

How about Sandy Hook and 20-year-old Adam Lanza. No political affilliations discovered-crazy kid with guns. I can go on and on.

All for now. Let me know know when you compile a respectable list. And oh yeah, how about Stephen Paddock?

[Paul Emery]

Are you saying The Portland Killer Christian was a LIP Walt? Unbelievable.

[Paul Emery]

SP LIB

[Gregory]

I don't think NorKor counts deaths by starvation or executions, Paul, and in the modern world, we are where we are.

But we're also 50 states and DC.

DC has a rate of 24.2
Louisiana 10.3
Mississippi 8.7
Maryland 8.6
Missouri 8.3
South Carolina 8.2

you get the idea.

From the other end of the scale there's New Hampshire at 1.1 (they don't require licenses to carry concealed)
Hawaii 1.3
Vermont 1.6 (also no license to carry concealed)
Maine 1.7
Utah 1.8
Idaho 1.9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state

Now, which America are you talking about, Paul?

[Bill Tozer]

Speaking of Hillary putting thing out. I present Exhibit A, aka, full blown ignorance.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1176383789162323/?type=3&theater

This is so wrong on so many levels, but I will stay with the facts.

1) a silencer on a machine gun will not block the sound.

2) The mass murderer fired so many shots that his hotel room filled with smoke and set the fire alarm off. That’ told LE where the shots were coming from, the room on the 32nd floor. If he used a silencer, the silencer would have burned up quick and added to the smoke, setting the alarm off sooner and perhaps saving some lives.

That’s My Gal.

[Account Deleted]

To be fair - Paul only cited an article that said that there are about 1300 children (1-17) that are killed by fire arms use annually. Only a bit over 1/2 (53%) are murders. Followed closely by suicide (38%) - the part of it Paul was going on about was the 6% unintentional deaths. Given that a lot of the 'unintentional' deaths were probably negligent homicide, the actual number of tykes picking up daddie's gun and blowing away little sister (it happens) is extremely small. And given that as far as we know, in every case the owner of the gun was identified, it was just pure nonsense that Paul's fix for reducing the 1300 a year number was making everyone register their gun. In fact, it would do nothing to reduce the numbers.

[Account Deleted]

Paul asks for a list - Walt has over 10.
Paul trumps that with one name. One. Claims he can go on and on. But doesn't.
One.
Poor Walt thought he had Paul on this one.
No siree, Bob.
Paul has one.
Just makes you wonder what goes on down there at KVMR in the news room.

[Bill Tozer]

Yo Paul Eeeeeeee!

I plumb forgot. The National Security issue is we need to secure our borders so black market guns don’t get smuggled in. Gotta stop that noise, pronto.

[Walt]

Well Paul, you wanted proof, and I gave it. So you don't like it?
Well,, you can kiss my ass on the center line of Main St. at Noon.
Now you want to pick nits. The guy with the dreadlocks is waiting right over there.
Maybe you didn't read about the killer of Pres. Lincoln. He was a Dem too.

Since your HARD OF READING!!,,I WILL SPELL LOUDER!! AND THERE IS A VIDEO OUT OF THE BASTARD AT AN ANTI TRUMP RALLY!!

TAP ONCE FOR UNDERSTOOD.
TAP TWICE,,, YOUR ON YOUR OWN.

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery has been savaged here by you fact check dudes. He sure does not like it.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 519pm - Actually the 1300 does not stand as an established fact to support the next round of gun laws when the last ones have neither worked nor been enforced. As other readers have pointed out above, the make up of who and how all those "children" were killed is very important when deciding public policy - except, of course, unless you are demogauging another agenda which requires that you attempt to hide it all under the biggest number you can muster.

[Gregory]

Emery?
Emery?
Emery?
Emery?

The murder rate in the US ranges from 24.2 (DC) to 1.1 (New Hampshire).

DC would be #17 on the UN list
New Hampshire would be #176

Which America are you talking about?

[Paul Emery]

that was the United Nations list you were bragging about Gregory. What's your problem?

[Paul Emery]

George

I challenge you to click through this and not get sick to your stomach when you read the details.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed

[Gregory]

Bragging? No, just quoting.

DC would be #17 on the UN list
New Hampshire would be #176

Which America are you talking about, Paul?

[Paul Emery]

What Is the point of what you're talking about GREGORY? Are you saying there is a vast differences in different parts of every country Sure I agree with you on that Again what's the point what are you trying to say ?

[Gregory]

And what are those differences, Paul? Why are New Hampshire and Vermont safer than DC despite DC having all those gun laws you think everyone should have (although the SCOTUS does seem to be on the verge of changing that)?

[Don Bessee]

Should we post links to car accidents videos ya po' ol' party parrot @ 1029 for impact on the leading cause? IF you really cared you would work against gang violence and against the leadership of Chicago, Detroit, NYC and all the other socialist DEM toilets. ;-(

[fish]

Posted by: Gregory | 02 October 2017 at 10:57 PM

I wouldn't expect a response. There's no answer he can give that isn't a blasphemy within his faith.

[John]

Paul Emery appears to have a remarkable mental condition that gives him the complete inability to comprehend facts that are not in line with his view of the world. He seems to genuinely not comprehend the discussion that he is involved in. I have never seen anything quite like this.

[Account Deleted]

As you might expect, the good folks at Daily Kos have got their knickers in quite a twist. Most are trying to out-F-bomb one another as some kind of inarticulate way of expressing their hatred for the groups they don't seem to like.
How big are those rooms at the Mandalay Bay? Supposedly it was a lone shooter, but the DK folks all agree there was the entire GOP and the NRA in there pulling the trigger.
And of course, there are the various loud voices from the Dems calling for "laws that will make sure this doesn't happen again".
Well.
I'll hazard a guess that any such proposed law will really have no direct way of preventing another mass killing. But it will impinge on our civil rights and it will play out most heavily upon folks who have never and will never harm a soul.
I'm not prone to quote Mr O'Reilly, but he does have the correct attitude that this incident is part of living in a free society.
The number of folks that were killed is actually the same number of folks murdered in Chicago (on average) every month, month after month. Year after year.
Just in Chicago.
Yes, we have a problem in this country. But it is hardly unique to our country.
We don't solve problems with emotion and feelings. Sorry - it's never happened even once. We clean up the mess, tend to the hurt and wounded and examine the crime scene.
We apply logic and reason to the issue and go over what can be done within the framework of our type of govt.
It could be that something like this will happen again. It could be that the citizenry of our country will demand that their civil rights be violated so that they will 'feel' safer. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

[George Rebane]

ScottO 815am - You don't have to quote O'Reilly, he's a late comer (e.g. viz RR) to the notion that such shootings (and many other means and methods of murder and mayhem) are the price of living in a free society, especially one whose sacrifices here guarantee the existence of other free societies. I'm aghast that this late in the history of communism there are still people among us (also commenting here) who cite North Korea as being a more peaceful and safe country than America. Here is a nation whose government routinely imprisons, tortures, and murders millions of its own citizens to stay in power and it is lauded because it makes the private possession of firearms a capital offense.