Sandbox - 11nov17

[Will Mueller follow all the Russian collusion clues, or just the ones in sync with his political preferences?  gjr]

Comments

[Russ]

Politics all the way down, it is the Washington way of life.

[Paul Emery]

Amazing that on Veterans Day Trump affirms his belief that the Russians didn't attempt to interfere with our elections contrary to the opinion of all American intelligence agencies.

Trump quote

"“He said he didn’t meddle — I asked him again,” Mr. Trump told reporters traveling with him aboard Air Force One as he flew to Hanoi for more meetings. “You can only ask so many times. I just asked him again. He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election.
He did not do what they are saying he did.”

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 11 November 2017 at 08:17 AM

Everything amazes you Punch......

[Robert Cross]

"just the ones in sync with his political preferences? " You and Russ are good corporate soldiers George continually trying to politicize and polarize what is, in fact, a legal issue, in order to spread doubt or ease your conscience or both. Classic tobacco/fossil fuel/pharmaceutical/petrochemical industry damage control tactics that you folks seem to fall for every time. One would think that proclaimed patriots like yourselves would want to get to the truth rather than try and obscure it. #Not a witch hunt...Sad.

[fish]

Posted by: Robert Cross | 11 November 2017 at 08:45 AM

#thanksbobby

[Paul Emery]

Yes Fish Trump is pretty amazing in a dark and dangerous way

[Todd Juvinall]

BobbieC 845

Sure we are. Of course, eberything we learned came from your ilk. But that's OK. We won you lost, get used to losing.

And we are all about protecting corporations that wish to kill all their customers. It is our lot in lfe.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 11 November 2017 at 08:55 AM

Yeah.....sucks to be scared all the time huh?

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh my. It appears one of Moore's accusers is a democrat activist who worked for Joe Biden and Hillary Clinto. Ya think it might be a slime job?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/10/roy-moores-accuser-did-work-for-joe-biden-other-democrats/

[Robert Cross]

"And we are all about protecting corporations that wish to kill all their customers. It is our lot in lfe." I don't think it is your lot in life Todd, you are just too politicized to know any better. You and your ilk don't really care about the country, you just seem to care about winning because that is about the only defense you have for Trump. And we should all believe the biggest liar in politics because he says his buddy Putin and the ruskies didn't interfere in our election. #sad but true...

#you're welcome fishy, always glad to make your day

[Don Bessee]

God Bless our Veterans! Shame on the po' ol' fakenewsman for his 817. ;-)

[fish]

Posted by: Robert Cross | 11 November 2017 at 09:54 AM

#punche&bobbeesavedemocracy

[Todd Juvinall]

Robert Cross | 11 November 2017 at 09:54 AM

Sure BobbieC, we don't care about our country or the people the corporations are killing who are also their customers. My my, where do you leftwing loons come up with your stuff? And tell us all your profession and who you vote for. As far aas the biggest liar? Are you really that dumb? Hillary destroyed 33,000 emails paid for a fake dossier and did "pay to play" for her tenure at State. My goodness, you libs would defend SATAN as long as he dissed a Republican.

[Walt]

Paul (and bob) Where is the EVIDENCE Putin "meddled" in the election? So someone IN Russia may have had a good ol' time in the DNC computers(a private computer,,,NOT U.S. gov) and Hillary's clandestine and illegal computer.(still not U.S. gov.)

We have more evidence that Paul might be uh,,, lite in the loafers at this point. ( you did it to yourself Paul)

There in a mountain of evidence the Clinton should be jailed for breaching national security.

[Robert Cross]

Here you go Todd, what about fracking which you love along with fossil fuels? You are defending satan Todd.
https://yubanet.com/enviro/fracking-chemicals-linked-to-neurodevelopmental-health-impacts/

#littlefishydestroystheplanet

[Paul Emery]

My goodness Walt you are such a Putin cuddler. I believe Trump is an outright commie the way he gushes over the international criminal Putin. Even his own CIA Director dowsn't support him. Here's some quotes

Trump Sides With Putin Over U.S. Intelligence On Election Meddling

"In a statement to CNN on Saturday, CIA Director Mike Pompeo — a Trump appointee ― stood by the agency’s findings.

“The Director stands by and has always stood by the January 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment entitled: Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent U.S. Elections,” the agency said. “The intelligence assessment with regard to Russian election meddling has not changed.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-putin-election-hacking_us_5a06de14e4b01d21c83ebdf7?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

[Paul Emery]

Sorry about this Todd but you're hero Roy Moore is headed for the dumster of politics. this just came out today

“It was common knowledge that Roy dated high school girls, everyone we knew thought it was weird,” former Deputy DA Theresa Jones reportedly told CNN. “We wondered why someone his age would hang out at high school football games and the mall.”

“Late 70’s and 80’s – at that time and atmosphere it was weird he was dating teenagers but you really wouldn’t say anything to someone like that,” Jones continued.

Marquardt was following up on a comment left on the Gadsden Times website story on the allegations against Roy Moore.

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/everyone-thought-it-was-weird-deputy-da-who-served-with-moore-confirms-he-dated-high-school-girls/

“I was a deputy DA in Gadsden with Roy Moore. I have no doubt these stories have validity,” Teresa D. Jones of Sarasota posted. “Roy was known to eschew dating his own age and preferred teenagers.”
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“I challenge all of my colleagues in the Bar and on the bench at that time to come forward to support that Roy Moore should not be elected to represent the place of my birth and my home for many years,” Jones concluded.

[Russ]

Oh My!

Alabama ABC Affiliate Can’t Find One Voter Who Believes WaPo Report About Roy Moore in Man-on-the-Street Segment

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/11/10/alabama-abc-affiliate-cant-find-one-voter-believes-wapo-report-roy-moore-man-street-segment/

Another indicator that the main stream press has lost all credibility, they squandered it on Russia, Russia, Russia!

[Paul Emery]

Russ

Are you saying Breitbart has credibility? My goodness.

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh Paul Emery, I have a close friend who attended a meeting today with Moore. The press is there of course and as thick as fleas. He says no one believes this crap and Moore will probably make t. So I am sure the media can keep dredging up people to lie. Look how long it took you to come out. All those are lies about you?

[Todd Juvinall]

RC at 254

You bet I love fracking. It has changed everything about Arab oil imports. And made us free from extortion. You really are not too bright and it shows every time you post your liberal trash.

[Paul Emery]

Todd

I will not join you as a Log
Cabin Republican as much as you seem to desire me. Sorry to tell you I'm not gay . Better look elsewhere.

[George Rebane]

Don't Breitbart and HuffPost have equal credibility among their constituents?

[Russ]

California Gov. Jerry Brown to protesters during climate speech: 'Let's put you in the ground'

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-gov-jerry-brown-to-protesters-during-climate-speech-lets-put-you-in-the-ground/article/2640410

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh Paul Emery, you really are a gay man aren't you? Always fantasizing about me even though I have told you I am only into women. So stop it and go back to the bathhouses.

[Steve Frisch]

With all due respect, here is the cost of renewables versus conventional fuels for electricity generation in $$ per Mwh.

https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2016/12/solar-energy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png

In short solar and wind are crushing natural gas and coal. Frankly our biggest problem is going to be that we have so much that we have to pay people to take it during the day. As soon as we solve the storage issue at a utility scale or through distributed storage, coal and natural gas will be toast.

[Bill Tozer]

Meddling is the operative word here. Russians meddled. Many a man has complained about mother-in-laws that meddled.

And Paul, you should not have opened that door of credibility door. Brietbart has 1,000 times more credibility than you and everything you post. You are dumb enough to take the Yellow Shower Dossier at face value, even though Steele did not verify one fact or allegation. Unlike Steele, Punchy takes it all as credible, lol. Punchy using the word credible is....incredible.

Putin has zero credibility, which is twice as much as you have, Punch Drunk One.. Trump repeated what Putin said. Putin said he did not interfere. Trump sad (as RC posted) that Trump asked, Putin denied, and Trump said got he same answer again. Only so many times you can ask. But Punchy makes the leap of faith, erects a straw man, tries to connect the dots for the 1,000th time, looks like a fool with zero credibility for the 1,000th time, and says Trump believes Putin. You can’t make this stuff up. Fact is stranger than fiction in our water boy world. Oh my.

Hmm. Did Trump agree with what Putin said??? Or did he tell he press what Putin said? Do you even know what you write?

Meddling! Meddling! Collusion! Trump and T Rex and Putin are going to get all the oil!!! It’s the secret plot. I have concerns, lols.
Carry on Punchy. You got Trump reeling back into the ropes now!
A dossier that was fed to Steele by Russians agents, that Steele did not lift a finger to verify one statement, and Punchy thought that was credible, Punchy believes Russian agents, but not their boss. Sweet, ROFLMAO

Popinjay, you are too funny. I would refrain from talking about credibility if I were you, but I am not. Trump agrees with Putin. Well, if Putin said so and so, and Punchy reported that Putin said so and so, then by Punchy’s own logic that means Punchy agrees with Putin. Never dhange, please never change.

[Bill Tozer]

Corporations want to kill their customers? Guess Bobbie is talking about the NFL again. Yep, the customers are dropping like flies.

Oh, Happy Veterans Day Punchy. Thank you for your service. Forgot to put that in the last comment. Carry on. Too hip, gotta go.

[Walt]

Colluding with China Steve? Ever see how those solar panels are made? ( Too toxic to make in Ca.) Go live near a wind farm ol' boy.
Let's see how soon you move away due to the noise.
Never mind those bird blenders wear out before turning a profit, let alone paying for themselves.
Your always looking for the sucker with a self imposed guilt trip.
Then there is this coming down the pike.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/11/how-gops-tax-deal-could-end-gov-browns-anti-fossil-fuel-fantasies/
Don't forget this from Jerry and the kids.

"“Governor Jerry Brown has expressed an interest in barring the sale of vehicles powered by internal-combustion engines,” Mary Nichols, chairman of the California Air Resources Board, told reporters in September about what Brown might have in store for the state."

I really would love to see that pushed. Get right on that, will you?
Think that would win elections?

[Walt]

Paul fails to read his own post/
"The president’s comments fly in the face of a report from U.S. intelligence agencies earlier this year that concluded that Putin had ordered hacking against the Democratic National Committee"

Paul. The DNC is a PRIVATE org. The DNC had less computer security than my cell phone. The were TOLD by the FBI that security was more than lacking.

I have yet to see that written order. Where is it? Have Putin's John Hancock on an order?

[Account Deleted]

Frisch at 4:14 - "Frankly our biggest problem is going to be that we have so much that we have to pay people to take it during the day."
Yeah - I remember that line about nuke power plants.
Question - If renewables are so cheap - why are we subsidizing them so heavily?
First we got hooked on foreign oil and now the left wants us hooked on Chinese made panels.
Ever check out the mining that goes on to support the current electric battery market?
Ever check out the extraction, processing, manufacturing, handling in use and disposal of the various minerals and elements needed for electric cars? That stuff they're pulling out of the ground ain't renewable, pal.
And remember - it will need to be ramped up a million times over to make the greenies dreams come true.
Clean energy from renewables just means left wing greenies won't ever have to see the pollution in their own town. The poorest people in the world will.
Oh well.

[Walt]

Speaking of LIB lies, not many are buying the accusations against Moore.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/11/10/alabama-abc-affiliate-cant-find-one-voter-believes-wapo-report-roy-moore-man-street-segment/
"
During a segment that aired on Friday’s broadcast of Birmingham, AL ABC affiliate WBMA 33/40’s 5 p.m. local news, political reporter Lauren Walsh sought out voters in Columbiana, AL to gauge their reactions to the Washington Post report that alleged Republican U.S. Senate hopeful Roy Moore engaged in inappropriate conduct with four teenage girls more than 34 years ago.

None of the respondents according to Walsh told her they believed the Post’s reporting. "

Yes LIBS you have a credibility problem. The masses are hip to your tricks.

[Bill Tozer]

1) Walt, concerning Judge Roy:
I liked the part about the Wa Compost storyteller who broke the Judge Roy yarn writing bad checks all over town. That don’t sit well with the credibility crowd.
Hmmm. Come to think of it, best thing Trump did was mock that NYT reporter. Trump mocked the man not because the dude is disabled, walking about, working full time, and banging on his computer machine pumping out stories or racing off to next press conference, but rather Trump mocked him because he is a journalist, a vocation that ranks below used car salesmen and slightly above waiting in the dentist’s office for a double root canal....without Novocain. Ah, the best reporters at the Times and Wa Compost cover the travel section and are usually out of sight, out of mind.

2). Steve is right. Just as soon as the solar and wind folks can figure out how to get reliable electricity down the transmission lines, all will be grand. For now, stay close to home if you want juice. Long way from the deserts to NC. :). As Hank Hill once said, “Propane is God’s gas.” Worked fine and kept me warm during the last power outage that windy stormy night. No complaints from me, especially since the wind done tore up my neighbor’s solar panels and created a very unhappy green dude. Those panels are ugly, glad to see them go. Gone with the wind..and left a leaky roof to boot. Get this....the panels were to run his well. Oh, no morning coffee for them...until he fired up a fossil fuel powered generator.

Hey, they once said someday man will fly like a bird in the sky, someday man will walk on the moon, someday only little girls will wear dresses, and someday they will be selling Henry Weinhard’s beer as far away as Los Angeles, California. The preceding was from an old commercial I liked when I worked outside of Portland, many many moons ago.

Steve is correct. Timing may be off, a bit premature. And someday all the broke homeless people standing in the soup line and all the struggling families working paycheck to paycheck will be forced to drive an electric go-cart, whether they have the means to purchase one or not. Sad but true.

Ok, back to politics:
“Roy Moore should change his name to Bob Menendez, and then the media will leave him alone.” —Ben Shapiro

Speaking of Jerry Brown and his brown streak ideas:

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10155184496375914/?type=3&theater

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 11 November 2017 at 07:19 PM
Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 11 November 2017 at 05:31 PM

Yeah, you guys did read the chart and do at least a little independent research tight? The deal is the power is already going down the line boys, and people are buying it, for less than coal and gas, and at certain times of the day we are actually paying people to take power because we have too much.

[Todd Juvinall]

I think most people are for "all of the above" energy sources. And when the are cost competitive people will move to those they can afford. So far the alternatives are not competitive as far as I see. But hopefully, they can become so some day.

[George Rebane]

About wind and solar power - I didn't catch the part of why we are still subsidizing it if it's cheaper and therefore making making higher margins than fossil fuels. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for competitive clean power when the technology and economics bear it out. Can anyone demonstrate that the time for that has come?

[Bill Tozer]

Oh Steve, I never read your links. Plus, for me, solar or wind just does not pencil out. I conserve power, which makes my bill so low that solar would be an expense I don’t need. The one thing I cannot stomach is the solar or wind footprint. Just takes up way way way way too much space on the country side. Now, if you could power, say 30,000 homes and businesses with a 2-3 acre footprint, then I am all ears. Ok, do it under 7 acres if you have to, but please for Pete’s sake, don’t cover every foot of soil, every nice hilltop, every desert view, and every green space with big butt ugly mirrors, wind turbines, towers, and the ugliest thing I can imagine, aka, those repulsive black rectangles your proudly call panels. Same reason all the banana brains are against dams. A sin against our beautiful landscape and bad for our furry friends and prehistoric fish....and little minnows and the bugs they eat. Plus, I am a loving bird watcher and your bird shredders...well, go fuck yourself and the electric car you rode in on. Might as well just poison our birds and destroy the creatures you deem expendable or inconvenient. I thought you liked nature and natural beauty, but I guess I am ass backwards wrong. Why do you hate bald and golden eagles, Steve, why?

Sure, you can and will pave paradise and put up a solar field in one location, then feed the power back via the existing power-to-home lines and infrastructure. That is simple. Heck, you can back feed electricity from a tiny home generator down the line and shock the crap out of some poor PG&E worker.
I am talking about transmitting green energy from the source of the power plant across hundreds of miles to the end user...like from Grand Coulee Dam to my humble abode. Turbines and those gawd awful ugly panels cannot to that. Maybe burning peanut shells as our former Governor Jerry the Jesuit Monk once envisioned. Think he loved the idea so much he even slept on peanut shells on the floor, but I suspect he was just rolling around on them by accident as he was making time with Linda Ronstadt and her Stone Ponies....but I digress.

Yes, someday we will all be riding around in little electric go-carts, flying in electric battery operated jets, Walt steering some solar powered Earth Mover, and millions using battery operated vacumn cleaners. No doubt about it. Heck, solar is just a short word for battery charger. Until then, be grateful you do not live in the Midwest and are dependent on green energy during those long bitter winters. Sucks to have to take a chainsaw out on those unforgiving mornings to cut through the ice to water the horses.
Your dream probably someday will work great in our neck of the woods, better in Hawaii and Arizona. Not so good in Greenbay. They be burning wood, a natural renewable resource. Organic as well.

Someday, someday. That we agree on. You do realize solar fields disorient birds ‘ instinctive homing and sense of direction. Of course you know that. That’s why they fly into those big solar fields and get fried. Like instant Global Warming, but hotter. If our fowl of the air make it past those butt ugly hideous snares you support, you have come up with Plan B....which is to turn them into Shredded Tweet with your turbines. How do you live with yourself? I think I am going to vomit just thinking about you getting your jollies off killing our friends in the sky. What, a bird once pooped on your head or something so you make it your life’s mission to kill every birdie you see? You are sicker than your secrets, Steve.

[Account Deleted]

"...and at certain times of the day we are actually paying people to take power because we have too much."
And since the production of that electricity is not all solar or other renewable, it means some one is pissing money down the hole to produce electricity we don't need.
Yeah - that sounds real economical. That's called waste. As in commie countries where food rots in the box cars.
Let's look at the whole picture of needed electricity 24 hrs a day all year.
C'mon, Frisch - why are we propping up something you claim is more economical?
A free market rewards the best deal for everyone. Not just a handful of the wealthy and power-connected. That's crony capitalism or just plain fascism.
Solar has come a long way - it will grow stronger with a free market.
Electric cars will gain more acceptance once people see them as a free choice, not something rammed down their throats.

[fish]

Bleccch......I just watched CNN/Jake Tapper (wonder how long it is before his name is mentioned along side sexual harassment charges) try to make that useless yutz John Kasich look presidential! Fire burning in the fireplace behind him......just embarrassingly bad!

[Ben Emery]

Democrats are Back Baby!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBUxNeXgC70

Trump is/was dealing with Russian politicians and corporate interests. Clinton's were and most likely still are dealing with Russian politicians and corporate interests.

Trump, the perfect sociopath ceo type conservatives have been wanting for ever has come.
http://time.com/32647/which-professions-have-the-most-psychopaths-the-fewest/
He is doing exactly what we all expected and those who voted for him along with the DNC/ Clinton have fulfilled conservatives wet dreams.

"At the heart of the tale are several men, leaders of the Canadian mining industry, who have been major donors to the charitable endeavors of former President Bill Clinton and his family. Members of that group built, financed and eventually sold off to the Russians a company that would become known as Uranium One.

Beyond mines in Kazakhstan that are among the most lucrative in the world, the sale gave the Russians control of one-fifth of all uranium production capacity in the United States. Since uranium is considered a strategic asset, with implications for national security, the deal had to be approved by a committee composed of representatives from a number of United States government agencies. Among the agencies that eventually signed off was the State Department, then headed by Mr. Clinton’s wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton."

"As the Russians gradually assumed control of Uranium One in three separate transactions from 2009 to 2013, Canadian records show, a flow of cash made its way to the Clinton Foundation. Uranium One’s chairman used his family foundation to make four donations totaling $2.35 million. Those contributions were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons, despite an agreement Mrs. Clinton had struck with the Obama White House to publicly identify all donors. Other people with ties to the company made donations as well.

And shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock.

At the time, both Rosatom and the United States government made promises intended to ease concerns about ceding control of the company’s assets to the Russians. Those promises have been repeatedly broken, records show."

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

[Gregory]

Lazard's leveled cost of energy appears to be one big green fudge factor exercise, where every carbon based megawatt is burdened with the cost to society of "climate change"... were it so, electric power in California should be cheaper to retail customers than in Wyoming by now.

The financial globalists at Lazard may have an axe to grind. Perhaps the same axe as Frisch's.

[Robert Cross]

"I think most people are for "all of the above" energy sources." What proof do you have of this Todd? Maybe among your climate denier buddies 'all of the above' works, but for every nation in the world EXCEPT Trump's America (not to be confused with the American people in general) that statement is simply not true.

"Don't Breitbart and HuffPost have equal credibility among their constituents?" Interesting twist of words. Yes, both have credibility among their constituents. BUT.......

Unlike Breitbart which has ZERO credibility outside the alt-right, Huffpost, which has won Peabody awards and Pulitzer Prizes is considered credible everywhere except the alt-right. Breitbart, on the other hand, had received numerous "pants on fire" awards for spreading misinformation and outright lies. Mother Jones describes it as "anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, ethno-nationalistic provocateurs." According to Wikipedia, "Internal emails leaked and reported on in October 2017, show how Breitbart's management, together with writer Milo Yiannopoulos, solicited ideas for stories from, and worked to advance and market ideas of neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups and individuals." In most circles, Breitbart isn't even considered 'news' but rather a racist propaganda outlet. So while your assessment of credibility among its constituents is correct, it goes no further than that, which then questions the credibility of anyone using Breitbart as a source.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 November 2017 at 09:48 PM

"So far the alternatives are not competitive as far as I see."

And yet I posted the actual pricing of UNSUBSIDIZED elctricity generation and they are competitive. All of the above means that when wind and solar are cheaper, which they either are or are rapidly becoming, we should be replacing fossil fuel based energy.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 11 November 2017 at 10:49 PM

"Oh Steve, I never read your links."

For a guy who does not read links you sure have a lot to comment on. If you want to remain willfully ignorant that's fine with me.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 12 November 2017 at 06:46 AM

"A free market rewards the best deal for everyone."

So wht is Trump pledging to subsidize coal to keep an uneconomical power source alive?

[Gregory]

You got that Todd? By Cross' standards, just reading Breitbart means you're a Nazi, too.

[Gregory]

"And yet I posted the actual pricing of UNSUBSIDIZED elctricity generation"-Frisch

The "actual pricing"? No Steve, you did not. Lazard also does not apparently burden pv or solar with the cost of storage or the cost of instant-on backup power generation backups....

[Gregory]

"Analysis excludes integration (e.g., grid and conventional generation investment to overcome system intermittency) costs for intermittent technologies" - Lazard

[Todd Juvinall]

RobbieC, don't read Breitbart so your premise is, as usual, a loe. And even Trump has said he is for all the above so once again either you are ignorant or just a liar. HuffPo is a rag without cred. I once had a meeting with her ex hubby who she swiped wuite a few million from. She is one angry gal. Anyway RobbieC you have to do better than you have here as you seem to be quite the fibber about almost everything.

Regarding Frisch's link. Sorry, but it is not possible to say those energy producers are cheaper than oil and nat gas right now. My guess is the persons that ut that together left out the cost of the products, the subsidies for them and the cost of transmission. So try again Frisch.

Anyone read the article today in the Bee on Moonbeams trip to Europe along with Bloomberg? Traitors. Anyway Moonbeam was heckled throughout his speech by anti-frackers. What a hoot!

[Todd Juvinall]

Gregory, we on the right seem to be the most ardent anti-nazi people. He and his ilk are all about "antifa" the fascists who claim to anti-fascists.

[Gregory]

Todd 914

What you mean "We", kemosabe?

Todd 913
"Subsidies" by the like of Frisch generally include normal business deductions in figuring corporate income taxes.

[Gregory]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 11 November 2017 at 10:49 PM

"Oh Steve, I never read your links."

Go ahead and read them, they don't say what Frisch thinks they say.

[Walt]

Steve. Try relying on wind and solar today. Overcast, and not the slightest breeze to be had. So.. Just what are you cooking breakfast with?
Now you damned well better buy a carbon credit or two to fire up the wood stove. Al and Moonbat demand their due. They have jets that need fuel.

[Todd Juvinall]

Frisch forgets the cost of "backup" when it is not possible to get his favored energy generation. So it is a double cost not cost savings. Like running out of juice in your all-electric rig out there on Highway 50 in the middle of Nevada.

[Todd Juvinall]

Gregory I was talking about the "we" that identifies as the right, that does not mean you.

[Gregory]

Roy Moore may be the 2nd worst candidate on the AL ballot for Senate next month. Am glad I don't have to choose.

To all who have tolerated Clinton's (meaning Bill) multiple travels on the Lolita Express who are incensed at Moore... !

In general, I think any last minute dredging up of dirt from 40 years earlier needs to be ignored, for the same reasons one doesn't pay ransom for hostages unless it's to get a clear shot at the kidnappers.

[Walt]

Like electric cars?
https://www.howtogeek.com/239948/what-to-consider-before-buying-an-electric-car/
Steve.. Scroll down to the YELLOW CAR. Think CARB would approve? LOL!!!!

[Walt]

Another extension cord replacement Steve, This one JET POWERED!
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1070677_2012-nissan-leaf-gets-unofficial-jet-powered-range-extender-quick-charger

You might even make it back to Frisco with that one!

[Don Bessee]

The Alabama story is falling apart after only a couple of days. First the story about buying liquor in a restaurant for an underage girl supposedly happened in a DRY County and now the mom of the '14 year old' blew up a key part of the narrative. The '14 year old' said Moore would call her on her bedroom phone but mom said she did not have a bedroom phone. A poll done Thursday before the WP story had Moore at 50% the same co. ran one Sat night and Moore was 49.8%, there are 3 names on the ballot. We shall see... ;-)

[Russ]

Undoing the Dis-Education of Millennials

I teach in a law school. For several years now my students have been mostly Millennials. Contrary to stereotype, I have found that the vast majority of them want to learn. But true to stereotype, I increasingly find that most of them cannot think, don’t know very much, and are enslaved to their appetites and feelings. Their minds are held hostage in a prison fashioned by elite culture and their undergraduate professors.

They cannot learn until their minds are freed from that prison. This year in my Foundations of Law course for first-year law students, I found my students especially impervious to the ancient wisdom of foundational texts, such as Plato’s Crito and the Code of Hammurabi. Many of them were quick to dismiss unfamiliar ideas as “classist” and “racist,” and thus unable to engage with those ideas on the merits. So, a couple of weeks into the semester, I decided to lay down some ground rules. I gave them these rules just before beginning our annual unit on legal reasoning.

Read the rest the rules are HERE:
http://newbostonpost.com/2017/11/09/undoing-the-dis-education-of-millennials/

[Todd Juvinall]

What is different here than the DNC and Hillary and the dossier? Not much. And since the WAPO is owned by a Trump hater Bezos, and the paper endorsed the opponent, it smells to high heaven. Why would a Vietnam vet, law school grad and a DA prosecutor risk it all by chasing these gals? Not likely. Anyway, I tweeted to the Senate R caucus that I think they are all chicken shits about their position. Their com=ndemnation was so fast that their heads were spinning. If they could decide that fast on Ocare or taxes America would be saved!

[Clue-Sew]

Dear Leader Chicken Hawk in Chief was thankfully out of the country this Veteran's Day,,,He would only have done a disservice to veterans, POWs and MIA,,,we know he only respects vets who were not captured,,,

But Draft Dodger finally made it to Vietnam on Veteran's day!!! You cannot make this stuff up!!!

I am sure you will all want to know if I am a vet so you have something to bitch about,,,no I am not,,,but as you know I was recruited early on to work as a spy,,,hence my penchant for wearing trenchcoats and fedoras or trilbys!!!

http://www.aquascutum.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/i/historic_bogart_image.jpg

[Account Deleted]

I asked Frisch twice why we need to financially prop up renewable 'green' energy if it's cheaper than the current alternatives.
He won't answer.
This is why the leftist green weenies have no credibility.
The correct answer is that millionaires and billionaires need your tax money handed to them to help make them even richer.
And Frisch - Trump has never 'pledged' to subsidize coal.

[Walt]

Hay Stevey!! Any profit that might have been made gets tossed on the scrap heap WITH the dead windmill. 33 grand to take just ONE down.
https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Wind-Power/Germany-Now-Faced-With-Thousands-Of-Aging-Wind-Farms.html
Who will subsidize the dismantling?

[Walt]

Bunhole looking for a new name. (Yes, Bunbun was kind of a "flamer". Stage name at the gay strip joint?)
Try "The other KFC". That is a better fit for you.

But YES,, you CAN make that shit up. LIBS and Proggys are good at it.

[Don Bessee]

Here is some troll chow for the haters-

http://nypost.com/2017/11/11/turns-out-trump-didnt-ruin-americas-economy/

[Account Deleted]

Another green weenie bit of nonsense. The Tesla promoters are always happy to point out how fast the electric car is and how quickly it can accelerate. Proof that electric cars are better than IC cars.
Well.
Dodge is now sending cars to their dealers that are much cheaper than the Tesla and can out-accelerate the Tesla. So - is this then a good thing?
No - in fact, some are calling for it to be banned because of the same attributes that make the Tesla 'great'.
Double standards?
Of course.
Electric car fast=good
IC car fast=bad.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/11/12/controversial-840-horsepower-dodge-demon-heads-dealers/856103001/

[Gregory]

trying to type like Ben Stein...

Frisch?
Frisch?
Frisch?
Frisch? ...

[Don Bessee]

Here is one for the hater @1150. ;-)

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/amazing-video-vietnam-war-veteran-cries-president-trumps-shoulder-vietnam-speech/

[Walt]

Like I said. LIBs LIE!!!
http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/12/former-clinton-advisor-calls-trump-a-russian-agent/

[fish]

.....hence my penchant for wearing trenchcoats and fedoras or trilbys!!!

.....and no pants rumor has it.

[news o' the day]

http://www.wbaltv.com/article/california-naacp-seeks-to-remove-star-spangled-banner-as-national-anthem/13449326

[Bonnie McGuire]

I love the discussions Dr. Rebane encourages on this blog. I get to be inspired by intelligence and disgusted with stupidity. Both are a compatible education. Those continually attacking corporations obviously haven't paid attention over the years. America had limitations on corporations until the environmentalists were used to destroy our free enterprise systems small businesses empowering the formation of corporations for business employers to survive. I remember a lumber coupon Quincy donating $50,000 to environmentalists. I don't blame the company that employed workers and provided us with lumber. This was in conjunction with the gov San Francisco newspaper as promising a paid vacation to activists to demonstrate against logging in the Sierra. I blame the corrupt, illegal methods used by government to change America.

[Bonnie McGuire]

Prey about the error "coupon" instead of company.

[Gregory]

"And yet I posted the actual pricing of UNSUBSIDIZED elctricity [sic] generation and they are competitive. All of the above means that when wind and solar are cheaper, which they either are or are rapidly becoming, we should be replacing fossil fuel based energy."
-Frisch 850AM

And yet, when I posted the quote from Lazard from the report that you apparently stopped reading when you got numbers you wanted, that they ignored the cost of storage or backup power generation. you went into hiding. Wind and solar isn't cheaper until you ignore the fact the sun don't shine for very long each day even when the skies aren't cloudy all day, and you boost the price of fossil fuel energy because of the cost of 'climate mitigations' that are (ahem) controversial at best.

Steve Frisch, were you lying or were you just not reading the material as critically as you should have?

[Account Deleted]

I still want to hear more about how we are going to be paid to use electricity.
Can I just buy a truck load of nickel-chrome wire and make a 200 amp circuit and heat my back yard while getting a check from Idaho Power every month?
Bueller?
Anyone?

[Bill Tozer]

Steve @ 8:52 AM

“For a guy who does not read links you sure have a lot to comment on. If you want to remain willfully ignorant that's fine with me.”

Yep, no agrument here. Can’t say you didn’t try to help me see the light. That I do give you much credit for. I should have said I don’t read every link. Since I am in a rather generous mood, I do credit you for answering every question I have posed to you as well as your unequivocal statement (a couple of years ago) that capitalism is the best vehicle to deliver goods and services. That shows you know which side is up.

As far as not reading every link, I am in good company. I don’t think anyone does. I will post a link, and then 2-3days later somebody else will post the same link all happy they are presenting it to the readership. And it’s not just me. I bet most don’t bother to read my links or dribble. Sometimes I will throw in a contrary sentence or something off beat just to see if anyone is paying attention, lol. Sometimes I will accidentally omit one word (typo or not proof reading) and my main point, my punch line ends up exactly opposite of the idea I was trying to convey. I seldom correct them anymore...just let it ride. I never read Bunbun’s posts at all now, never read one word of what Brother Ben has to say, and just read one line of Punchy's stuff,(a sentence I choose at random, be it In the middle or near the bottom. Never, ever, any Punchy links.

Yep, you tried. And I am a hyprocrite since one of my favorite quotes is Spencer’s Contempt Prior to Investigation.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer.....(but research shows Herbert Spencer probably did not pen that gem, but it is a most fitting quote anywho, anyhow.)
I often think of that quote when our Popinjay gets to drawing some conclusion out of of the flimsiest of unsubstainated evidence or really gets going g playing Don Quixote titling at windmills, as you undoubtedly think the same of us, if I may be allowed to use the word “us” for just one time. This Roy Moore story is an example of Popinjay’s desire for something to be true...or the Yellow Shower Dossier as well. Contempt prior to investigation is a two way street, unfortunately. I have co tempt for everything some say or do.

It’s not just my stuff who people skim over links and writings. I have seen Russ post something great with no response, until somebody else posts the exact same link at a later date. Walt, Fish, many others have done the same. There simply is not enough time to read every link under every post and it’s not personal. Well, strike that. I never read some people’s links and always read others. Call it contempt prior to investigation.

As far as The Mean Green Energy Machine goes, the technology in and of itself will make it happen in due time. However, to pay for alternative energy and discourage reliance on fossil fuels, my utility rates will keep climbing. Period. It’s an artificial spike in conventional power rates to the end user by government design, so don’t boast that solar and wind electrical generation will become cheaper for the end user in time. That is a given as long as the Federal and some State governments continue to push for a continuing series of artificial rate hikes levied on conventional electricty creating companies and suppliers to make darn certain your prediction will come to pass. Hey, what happened to algae as the fuel of the future? Or hydrogen or cold fusion? Right now solar and wind is unreliable and best suited for certain limited geographical areas and for end users (households) and businesses that have the luxury and enough spare change at the end of the month to afford it.

I don’t blame you for being an advocate for the Mean Green Alternative Energy Machine. You are not alone. Government will find a way to tax the solar and wind stuff in due time. Their appetite for more and more and more for other people’s money is insatiable. There is never enough and they will never be satisfied. Just look how they are trying to figure out the best way to tax electric vehicles on miles driven or how people who said goodbye to their local power company are being charged a monthly “fee”. Hawaii has already discovered that power companies simply do not have the need or shortage of electricty to meet demand for them to wastefully buy back unneeded power from residential, business, and even local municiple government sources. No thanks, we have enough.... our needs are met. Try again some other time.

Until your vision is fully realized, I will stick with what I got. Now, if I were to move off the grid, you betcha I would have a little tiny hydro machine or petlon wheel in the creek as well as a old fashioned wind mill, some black rectangle solar panels, a solar water bag to take a Navy Shower, a wood stove, some backup generators, and a Bennie and Cecil hat with little helicopter blades on top.

Fun fact: The first time I saw the value of solar was one day at a beach....many moons ago. This guy had a solar powered blender that was powered by a very beachy looking panel about the size of an air mattress. He was making margaritas, blending the ice and mix while a small crowd that included me gathered to watch his new fangled contraption. Never seen anything like it. It was cool and fun as he making the onlookers drinks with much pleasure and abandon. All was going absolutely maverleous until some drunk stumbled on the air mattress looking solar panel and broke the new toy. Bummer, dude.

[Ben Emery]

Energy Subsides to fossil fuel industry directly or indirectly has to be in the hundreds of billions and even possibly more than a trillion when all added up over the years. The infrastructure put in place to promote fossil fuel energy is definitely in the trillions.

Now compare that to a few hundred billion for renewables, it is a drop in the bucket.

Then if we capture external costs of doing business like clean up of extraction, oil spills, decreased health, etc... the fossil fuel industry is getting into the trillion(s) bracket.

The biggest welfare exploiters are big business.

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh Ben Emery, give us the benefit of your research and facts on your claim the energy/oil industry has received a trillion buck in subsidies. I am real interested and if true I will be upset. So give us the facts of your claim so I can be armed to debate those that love oil.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Gregory | 12 November 2017 at 06:52 PM

If someone is having a problem reading the Lazard Cst of Energy graph and study Gregory, I think it's you.

First, all power generation, whether renewable or conventional, has to pay for interconnection, and the costs of interconnection of both are roughy equal, thus the cost for all power sources is leveld out of the curve.

Second, I acknowledged up front that the break in utility cost would come when we solve the storage problem, which we are working on dilegently right now and making huge strides. See my original comment below.

So no, I did not lie, you are a schmuck. You misrepresented what I said, as usual.

"In short solar and wind are crushing natural gas and coal. Frankly our biggest problem is going to be that we have so much that we have to pay people to take it during the day. As soon as we solve the storage issue at a utility scale or through distributed storage, coal and natural gas will be toast."

There is a seocnd way to deal with the oversupply of renewables, which is to create a regionalized energy market in the western US allowing power suppliers in California to sell more of their power into the western grid.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/11/lawmakers-consider-plan-for-regional-power-grid/

But the key point I made, that California is beginning to produce so much renewable power that it could be a powerful force to begin driving prices down is 100% accurate, and widely reported.

https://qz.com/953614/california-produced-so-much-power-from-solar-energy-this-spring-that-wholesale-electricity-prices-turned-negative/

Finally, let me point out a final benefit to producng power in a way that it can be stored on site and in residential and commercial buildings. I recently looked into purchasing a battery back up for my house. I estimated that I needed to be abe to store a minimum of two days worth of power in order to deal with weather related interruptions. When I priced the cost of doing that 2 years ago it was more than $8k. When I priced it last month it was less than $4k. (without the roughly $1500 cost of installation).

If I were able to store power on site I would have no need to be connected to the grid during weather events...for example high winds that lead to downed power lines that lead to catostrophic forest fires, death and property damage. If that were incorporated into California building code we could simple power lines down in weather events, which is exactky what PG&E and Sonoma County are looking at now as a long term solution to reducing the growing risk of wildfire.

The fact that you guys are stubbornly defending the 'traditional" instead of embracing and driving the new, even though it could lead to reduced prices for consumers, does not surpirse me, because defending the old is what the philosphy here is all about.

Years ago I stated the purpose of 'subsidy" was to speed the adoption of new technology and eventually get everyone off subsidies....a point that none of you acknowledged....now that it is happening it desn't suprise me that you are disappointed, and refuse to see facts when they are staring you right in the face.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 13 November 2017 at 06:32 AM

Ben may not have overstated the subsidies that carbon based fuels receive, expecially when taking into account the social cost of carbon on public health.

2002-2008
http://www.eli.org/sites/default/files/eli-pubs/d19_07.pdf

2013
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-12-EnergyTechnologies.pdf

1850-2010
http://www.misi-net.com/publications/NEI-1011.pdf

Of course briefly during the Obama administration the subsidies for renewables outpaced fossil fuels:

https://www.brookings.edu/research/beyond-boom-and-bust-putting-clean-tech-on-a-path-to-subsidy-independence/

And now under President Molester we are going the other way:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2017/oct/09/trumps-plan-to-bail-out-failing-fossil-fuels-with-taxpayer-subsidies-is-perverse

And please remember that none of these figures include the subsidy the coal industry gets by having Congressinally mandated lower cost for transportation of coal that no other industry enjoys....which drives u the price of consumer goods competing for the same space on the national rail network.

Todd, I have a buggy whip company that you could invest in.

[Clue-Sew]

Roy Moore,,, a Breitbart favorite,,,and wannabe Toy Story Woody character,,,is just another Winestain,,,

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teresa-jones-says-roy-moore-common-knowledge-dated-teens/

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Walt | 12 November 2017 at 11:58 AM

You might compare that to the cost of decomissioning antiquated nuclear power plants or coal and natural gas fired generation facilities.

https://thebulletin.org/rising-cost-decommissioning-nuclear-power-plant7107

Might also want to take a look at pg. 19 of this report on the average costs of decommissioning different types of power facilities:

http://www.rff.org/files/document/file/RFF%20Rpt%20Decommissioning%20Power%20Plants.pdf

Regardless, the decommissioning cost needs to be taken into account in the overall proforma of a project.

[Todd Juvinall]

Frisch and your links on oil prove that the oil industry gets tax breaks for their businesses just like everyone else. Your fake news analysis of that is truly telling. At least the oil and gas industries supply a produst used by billions of people on planet earth. Unlike SBC that is purely a money loser for the treasury, and supplies nothing the millions of employees and stockholders get something plausible. Your attitude about the free markets is better-suited in the old Albanian model.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 13 November 2017 at 08:26 AM

Heaven forbid you use actual data to help guide your decision-making process Todd.

BTW, the consumer is truly agnostic about where its power comes from once it is converted to Kwh.

Re: SBC, it must chap you hide that we are sucessful...but it is irrelevant to any of my comments here....I am speaking as a private citizen.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 13 November 2017 at 06:32 AM

"Oh Ben Emery, give us the benefit of your research and facts on your claim the energy/oil industry has received a trillion buck in subsidies. I am real interested and if true I will be upset."

Oh, and I am waiting for that 'real upset' part :)

[Todd Juvinall]

No Frisch you are a cherry picker and follower of The Guardian. My goodness try the Heritage Foundation for some balance. As far as SBC being successful? Not chapped at all. Actually kind of see why some like charlatans who can foist an idea and get free money from the taxpayers. You are really good at it.

[Todd Juvinall]

Here is one of many Heritage Foundation explanations about your fantasy on oil subsidies.

http://www.heritage.org/environment/report/whats-oil-subsidy

[Walt]

Nice try Stevey,, You get plenty more out of a nuke plant than windmills. So you like running at a loss. Have at it. Next time use your own money to do it.
What's the endangered dead bird count up to now from solar and windmills?

Want cheap power? string a few car alternators together with a ten speed bike. Looks like you could use the exercise.

[Steve Frisch]

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 13 November 2017 at 08:41 AM

Funny, I substantively agree with many of the reccoemmendations in this Hertigae Foundation comment, but I must note that many of the Obama adminsitration proposals actually never went into effect because they were included in the budget, and we didn't pass a budget we passed continuing resolutions. We have not actually passed a federal budget and appropriations bills since 2002.

[Steve Frisch]

Yes, facts are indeed stubborn things to closed and weak minds.

[George Rebane]

Subsidies, now that is term the definition of which is all over the place. Most certainly all definitions used in the public forums are based on the users' ideologies. Arguing that something, say, renewable or fossil fuel energy production, transmission, usage, ... is subsidized without defining the term gives rise to the above massive blasts of hot air that pass each other without imparting any warmth to anyone's understanding. I invite our discussants (especially the progressive contributors) to point us to their favorite definitions, or paint a new one for us.

One of the standard hip-level (i.e. highest level of neural pre-processing) criticisms we get from the Left is that RR is a stasist and an unexamined champion of the old, obsolete, and useless. I do challenge our critics to back that up with an example of a progressive blog that presents, considers, and debates ideas - social, political, technical, scientific, religious, ... - with anywhere near the frequency, intensity, breadth of viewpoints, etc that occurs as a matter of everyday business-as-usual on RR.

[fish]

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 13 November 2017 at 09:00 AM

Says the guy who is on the record as saying that the government is going to bring the price of health care down.

[Paul Emery]

The Republicans don't want him either. McConnell confirms accusations against the child abuser are real.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said that Alabama Senate GOP candidate Roy Moore should leave the race, saying he believes the women who have accused Moore of sexual misconduct.

“I think he should step aside,” McConnell told reporters in Louisville. He had previously said Moore should leave the race if the allegations were true. “I believe the women, yes,” McConnell said.

[Gregory]

"Yes, facts are indeed stubborn things to closed and weak minds."

Such as those educated in Chicago public schools and indoctrinated in poli-sci at Cal State 'Frisco? Yes, you certainly read the Lazard report the way it was intended... renewable energy is CHEAPER, if you ignore the costs of the parallel systems required to smooth out the grid in less than a second when clouds obscure the PV or wind fails. And if you price the CO2 emissions high enough (also with Lazard customers taking a cut as good globalists with money are all expecting). Not to mention the real pollution moved to China by the mining and manufacturing that used to be done in the good ol' USA.

Glad you came back, Steve, but the "storage" problem will never really be solved. It will always be there as long as clouds come and go according to no schedule and the wind doesn't blow on command.

BTW... what PV do you have on your own home? If any, would it be there without the direct subsidies or by California forcing PG&E (and other) power companies to buy the excess at an above market rate?

[fish]

I should work for the DNC….even though I can't take credit for penning the sentiment!

BIDEN 2020? It's not as crazy as it sounds….

Does that not just scream to be on a bumpersticker?

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-12/biden-2020-it-s-not-as-crazy-as-it-sounds

Joe Biden…the "Prince Ruprecht" of the democrat party.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 13 November 2017 at 09:10 AM

Punch-E……..!

[Todd Juvinall]

Oh Paul Emery, I could care less what McConnell says about Moore. He never said a word about Weiner. He never refused to NOT seat Blumenthal of Connecticut who lied about serving in Vietnam. And Even McCain who was part of the Keating Five and screwed hundreds of elderly women out of their money. All that was proven. Moore is allegations from the 70's and sound like a Team Hillary attack strategy. Moore up ten over Jones.

[Gregory]

Remember Congressman Gerry Studds!

He was actually banging teenaged male congressional pages. Got censured for it in the '80's but wasn't thrown out over one liaison with a 17 year old (age of consent in DC was and is 16, so it wasn't illegal). Reelected multiple times.

Moore's problem (the only illegal act he's been accused of was provide a drink to an 18 year old woman when the drinking age was 19) may have been that women his age were more uppity than he could handle, or perhaps he just liked the idea of his clumsy lovemaking attempts not being compared to others due to the younglings not having others just yet. Or, maybe, in his age group there just weren't many virgins left... besides him. We don't know (and I personally don't care)... but we do know that the holier than thou newscasters badgering Moore supporters since the mud hit the fan all gave Studds a lifetime pass. He was buried with accolades in 2006 as the first openly gay congressman.