Why should the neighborhoods suffer revisited?

[Don Bessee is a leading opponent of bringing legalized marijuana into Nevada County and specifically into its residential communities.  He is the regional director of Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM), and sits on its board.  Project SAM, founded by congressmen Patrick Kennedy and Kevin Sibet, is a national, non-partisan organization that coordinates opposition to the legalization of marijuana.  Recently Mr Bessee sat on Nevada County's Community Advisory Group (CAG) that was formed by the county to advise its Board of Supervisors on the adoption of a new marijuana ordinance.  This is an invited byline to allow Mr Bessee (pictured below) to openly express his views after CAG was disbanded.  It is posted as received.  gjr]

Don Bessee

We have been having a long conversation about commercial marijuana’s impacts on communities and neighborhoods.  During the prop 64 lead up and campaign there were some very interesting conversations and warnings.

I set up a press conference in late oct. 2016 in the heart of the financial district in SF where SAM stood with leaders of the medical marijuana community. We were there to put a spotlight on the tricks in prop 64.  That brought a very diverse group together to voice an area of significant agreement.  All of us there took heat for it.

We warned that the supermajority clause made the rest meaningless and that SAM’s long warned Big Tabaco 2.0 would come to Cali. So did UCSF addiction researchers.  We were right. We were right on so many levels.

I warned of the law enforcement street view from states that went commercial medical and commercial party pot before us. The urban and small town homeless magnet issues in CO. The quality of life crime increases and public drug use. Then there was the wanton abuse of the hard rules. As time went on the tax money got gobbled up by administration of the commercial track and tax system. A system that did nothing to decrease the black market. It only empowered it. Take for example the hide in plain sight criminal gang activity where they set up pot shops without licenses. It’s a whack a mole without any real enforcement ability, just like LA now.

We were promised by Newsom et al.  that all the problems would go away when we legalized.

It has been very interesting to watch all the moves since the passage of 64 in Nov. 2016, very interesting.

Let’s look at the facts on the ground right now. As it sits there are all of 17 Counties that are commercial. 1 allows deliveries. That means that all the other  Counties are not commercial. Yes, the vast majority of Cali is non-commercial.

The reality on the ground across the state of California it that things are not better on any level, they are worse and getting worse.

It was gratifying that the head of the State pot growers sued the state recently for doing exactly what we warned about. It is said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, if that’s the case, thanks Hez.

According to Hezekiah Allen, executive director of the California Growers Association, which filed the suit in Sacramento County Superior Court, the farm-size caps are essential to stop the industry from becoming “Big Tobacco 2.0”

Last week I was at another press conference in SF. I was standing shoulder to shoulder with the Catholic Archdiocese of SF, the head of the Congress On Racial Equality (CORE) and The Pacific Justice Foundation among others. The event was held in a very special location.

We were in the magnificent Chinese Episcopal Church on Noriega in SF. A Church that has a full day care and all day long bi-lingual tutoring. The planning commission in SF had made the egregious decision to allow a pot shop across the street in violation of prop 64.  The worst part is it was a politically connected former mayor of Oakland that got the ok. The righteous uproar forced even the SF Board of Supervisors to grant the appeal to protect the neighborhood. A neighborhood of color.

The facts are that most liquor stores and pot shops are in neighborhoods of color.

I spoke about the facts in NorCal.

We have had elected officials in Truckee threatened when the community wisely rejected commercial weed.

Nevada County has too many stories of abused neighborhoods like Wolf Dr.   Do any of you feel safer in your neighborhood? I hear NO in a big way every day.

The audit of the commercial pot shops in Sac. City showed they were selling black market weed, lying, cheating and even refusing entry to auditors even though the license required it. On Kathleen Ave in Sac the city is not protecting homeowners who are getting harassed for opposing a license applicant who is running without a license.

We were promised that things would get better, have they for your neighborhood?

What I hear from people who failed in other states in the weed business and locals who have no idea about what real world business plans are is that we MUST make what they want to do legal here everywhere.  Do we really? I think we need to see an enforcement model in CA that works first.

Comments

[Jaye Smith]

I don't see anything meaningful in this post. A lot of talk about what the state did or did not do in crafting the regs.

None of crime, addiction, bla, bla, bla has come to pass in California because cannabis has only been legal for a couple of months.

All the problems associated with cannabis, and every other substance known to man, have always been with us.

The drug wars are a failure. It is a people problem, not a drug problem.

Those pesky Norwegians that Trump likes would keep a reindeer penned up and feed it magic mushrooms so they could drink its piss after the reindeer purified it.

[Michael R. Kesti]

What I see here is an attempt to prove that legalization cannot work because, after multiple generations of prohibition and propaganda, there are problems with the faux-legalization that has occurred to date. This "proof" is replete with anecdotal evidence, scaremongering, and even, to my great astonishment, racism.

Here are some facts. Some people benefit from using marijuana medically. Many people enjoy using marijuana recreationally. Regardless of legality, many people will use marijuana without harming others. The overwhelming majority of the problems associated with marijuana are the direct result of its prohibition.

Here is an opinion. The war on drugs is a war on freedom supported by people who are willing to control how others should live their lives.

[Gregory]

I recall a CHP grand poo-bah saying circa 1978 that pot would be legalized in California when there was an accurate sobriety standard and test that could be relied upon.

As far as I know, that standard has not yet been met over the past 40 years and yes, prohibitions do not work. For pot, for alcohol, for large capacity magazines (anything over 10 rounds, a limit chosen arbitrarily) for pistols and rifles.

[ArchieBunker]

Well, I for one, am glad we exploded the debt ceiling. I mean, why should Dems have all the fun, spending like crazy? I guess both parties are pretty much alike, and neither are fiscally conservative.
It will be like the good old happy days of W's reign, Republicans in control of everything and spending like there is no tomorrow. My condolences to my kids and grand kids, if I ever have any.

Time to head out to the Old Republic aka the ORB, and celebrate.

Trump and Bannon said they were going to blow things up. Hoo-Wee, Hoo-Raw, and Yee-Haw.

[Jaye Smith]

If you can't beat them, join them,

https://www.420property.com/C:zpanelhostdatazadminpublic_html3px_coza420property/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Green-Way.jpg

[jon smith]

Bessee's train of thought screed reveals that if he ever had any thoughts, that train derailed a long time ago. This is simply a rehash of old news, hyperbole, frivolous anecdotes, and flat out bias. That he didn't even bother to use a grammar or spell checker for his moment in the sun speaks volumes about his lack of self respect. Why would he do this to himself if he had an ounce of self worth?

History shows us that those who demand the most control over others are those who harbor the greatest insecurity and lack of self worth. Rent a cops who carry the largest set of keys and the biggest stick that can be bought, arsonists who "discover" the fire and save the world, and prohibitionists who ride into town on a big white horse to save us from our own sins are fine examples of the Bessee mindset and they all have in common a pathological lack of self esteem.

[Jaye Smith]

jons, yeah, I can see why those CAG meeting went nowhere fast.

[Account Deleted]

"History shows us that those who demand the most control over others are those who harbor the greatest insecurity and lack of self worth."
This, from a leftie? Hilarious. Bessee pointed out facts that not one person who posted here has even tried to prove false.
Archie Bunker can't even stick with the topic.
Please, jonnie boy - come up with some facts as to how Bessee is demanding the most control over you.
Otherwise - total fail. Just name calling.

[ArchieBunker]

Scott, leave me out of this. I am still trying to figure out how this blog thing works. Man o man, that guy is touchy.

[jon smith]

Scott 6:01 - ". . . come up with some facts as to how Bessee is demanding the most control over you"

Are you living under a rock? Bessee wants to be the modern Frances Willard whose rallying cry was "Do everything" to protect the women and children from "the scourge" [of wine and beer]. She was instrumental in getting prohibition instated so that every person in America would to cow tow to her own religious principles.

Bessee doesn't like marijuana and is doing everything in his power to push his personal prejudice over every other person who doesn't happen to share his belief. Simple name calling? Give me a break. He is a fundamentalist fascist who want the world to march under his own principals. If that is good with you, fine. Myself, I am a firm believer in personal rights and want to make my own choices rather than have some prude like Bessee force his down my throat.

[Account Deleted]

Wow jonnie boy - I guess asking me if I live under a rock constitutes proof that Bessee has the MOST control over you. More than anyone.
It would be just kinda' helpful if you could provide any actual proof of this 'control' that Bessee has over you. So far, it's just legalization of MJ.
Beyond that - hard to tell. Is this some sort of voodoo or witchcraft that has possession of you, jonnie boy?
Put you in a gulag? Opening your mail? Lives in your head?
Poor jonnie boy. Bessee has him by the nuts.
But jonnie boy can't seem to come up with any actual facts.

[Account Deleted]

"I am a firm believer in personal rights"
I'm sure you are, jonnie boy.
Why don't you list those 'rights' and let us know where they come from. Should be an endless source of amusement.

[Bill Tozer.]

An observation from Colorado:

When the pot rollout happened in Co, there were the usual kinks in the supply and demand structure. There was a product shortage. To help alleviate the temporary shortage, several permits were granted to the non-commercial warehouse growers. A few small “greenhouse growers” were allowed to sell to the marketplace......now get this...restricted to 20 plants a year. You can call it Big Ag, or Monsanto, the Big Boys, or whatever label you prefer, but whatever you call it, it’s the ones who have the financial means, deep pockets and large facilities that can be counted on to pay the taxes, pass inspections, and deliver a reliable product to the marketplace. The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

As Mr, Boardman once pointed out, what makes us think we are so unique here in Nevada County when our special marijuana seeds (or clones) can be grown in Fresno?

And as I have pointed out before, be careful what you wish for. Would it be more cost effective to have the County inspect 50-75 smaller out in the sticks growing operations, or two big operations built to specs? Whether it’s the oil business or technology, the bigger fish gobble up the smaller fish.

Nothing to do with how many dispensaries...or where they will be placed, these are just my random thoughts looking at trends. Bigger toys for bigger boys and small growers are at the bottom of the food chain. Wouldn’t be surprised in the least if 50 out of the 58 counties in CA ban outdoor growing...just like in CO.

[Russ Steele]

Well, Mr. or Ms. Cali Forever 2018 @ 10:03 PM Scott is man enough to use his real name when posting his opinion. He is not a coward who screams obscenities from behind a wall. When you have to resort to attacking by name calling it is clear sign your intellectual quiver is out of arrows and it time to retreat back on to your hole for some reflection. Is this who you really are? Think about it!

[Account Deleted]

I find it fascinating that when the left pushes for something like legalized MJ and they prevail, you would think they would just celebrate and enjoy. Bessee is merely pointing out that promises are being broken and the law isn't being enforced properly. jonnie boy has his hair on fire claiming that Bessee is trying to control him from enjoying his 'rights'. I can assure jonnie that their are folks out there that want far more control over him than Bessee. Being concerned about THC addiction and use by the populace is hardly the realm of some kind of psychotic control freak.

[Account Deleted]

Russ - missed that one. Must have been deleted?

[George Rebane]

ScottO 803am - Yes, the 'Cali Forever 2018' garbage was deleted to save the pinhead's mom from seeing it and feeling that she had failed in raising her son. No mother deserves that, especially since it is most likely that he picked up his current mindset, mannerisms, and morals from attending progressive polluted public schools.

[jon smith]

Scott 6:01-
Just what don't you know about prohibition?

I want to enjoy a highball while watching the game on the tube in my living room and some bible thumping prude from 50 miles away declares, "No, God says that is wrong, I believe it is wrong., I don't want you to raise that drink to your lips, and I'll work month's on end to legislate my beliefs upon you."

Switch the word highball with a joint and you'll get my drift. Maybe.

[Mary Wanna]

The horribly misnamed Smart Approaches to Marijuana proponents sound more like Reefer Madness propagandists.

Dire warnings; tossing around terms and phrases like, "gangs", "Big Tobacco", "wanton abuse", "violations", "Do any of you feel safer in your neighborhood?", "The reality on the ground across the state of California it that things are not better on any level, they are worse and getting worse."

Bessee in fear monger mode.

What Bessee is doing is providing a snapshot of the state of various issues at a given moment with no thought that these issues are being worked on to make things better. Kind of like his snapshots of Dow record closings. What happened to the Dow daily briefings now that things have changed? I was hoping for a, "Largest drop in Dow Jones history under President Trump".

[George Rebane]

jons 1002am - Mr smith, I think your "drift" would be more persuasive if you compared and contrasted the manufacture and distribution of your highball with that of the joint whose facile access and enjoyment you promote.

MaryW 1033am - Ms Wanna, since all of Mr Bessee's citations and examples have a factual and reported connection to the MJ industry as practiced in residential neighborhoods, and since he is an opponent of legalizing MJ, what other more suitable approach should he take in voicing his strong opposition? Or, perhaps, do you deny him the right to voice such opposition?

[George Boardman]

This screed is incoherent, disjointed and lacks context, a less than elegant compilation of all of the arguments he's made in the past. I'm going to wait a year before I pass judgement on the success or failure of legalized pot.

Donnie, here's a tip from somebody who staged well over 100 press conferences over a 30-year period, several of them in San Francisco: Unless you're a baseball player or firefighter, don't wear a baseball cap to a San Francisco press conference.

You can get away with that in Grass Valley and maybe Sacramento (If you're a farmer), but in San Francisco, it just yells hick from the sticks. How you present your message (and that includes how you dress) impacts the credibility of your message.

[Walt]

It's high time our pro pot gang show skin in the game. Lets have photos of you with the kids and/or Grand kids. All partaking
in the now legal and "accepted" family fun. All vegged out in the family room.

[Bill Tozer]

If dispensaries are no big deal, why open one on Broad Street or Commerical St and proclaim it to the world what Nevada City stands for and stands behind? Be proud, be loud.

[Don Bessee]

GB- I am from SF and have family there. I know that media market well and the demographic I am targeting but thanks anyway. ;-)

[Account Deleted]

jon smith -"Switch the word highball with a joint and you'll get my drift. Maybe."
Looks like jonnie boy's 'drift' drifted a little.
This was your quote - "History shows us that those who demand the most control over others are those who harbor the greatest insecurity and lack of self worth."
And that was what I commented on. It was obviously directed at Bessee (or why else post it?) and was obviously a ludicrous comment.
The 'most' control over citizens' lives comes these days mostly from the left. All sorts of nanny state BS laws and regulations that do little to address any actual problem. We have 1st and 2nd amendment rights that the left is howling to do away with on a constant basis. No one has a 'right' to ingest THC. I gave you a chance to list your rights and you can't seem to come up with any.

[Mary Wanna]

GeorgeR 1051am - Mr. Bessee has the right to post here or anywhere else as far as I am concerned. Where did I say he should be silenced?

I do wish he would shut up about it if all he has are 'this happened there once' 'some shenanigans occurred somewhere', 'some people who might be associated with illegal activities were involved somewhow' and other juicy tidbits, because all that information is already out there and everyone has heard the fear mongering before.

That stuff happened a century ago with alcohol prohibition. People have been transporting booze and cigarettes across state lines since then. Now risk takers are arbitraging pot, high capacity ammo clips, fireworks, whatever across state lines and national borders.

Meanwhile, most everyone else is trying to live within the law.

[Mary Wanna]

Posted by: Walt | 10 February 2018 at 11:48 AM - why don't you give us access to your Instagram account to get the ball rolling?

[Walt]

Instawhat? Don't use any of those. No Twitting, Myface or Bookspace.
Bad enough that Google knows every time you take a dump.

[George Rebane]

MaryW 1253pm - Ms Wanna, where did I claim that you said it? I merely asked the question that was begged by your strident counter to Mr Bessee's byline. But I do believe that the nefarious incidents Bessee cites are what most law enforcement officials recognize as not unusual nuisance events connected with MJ trafficking. Perhaps you have some data showing how infrequently we encounter Mr Bessee's claims.

My own opinion is that if MJ production and distribution can be made or shown to be as benign or similar to that of alcohol, then the nuisance opposition would disappear, leaving a fringe of those who oppose MJ consumption based on brain damage or other health concerns (not unlike connected to alcohol and tobacco).

[Gregory]

"Bessee's train of thought screed reveals that if he ever had any thoughts, that train derailed a long time ago."

A pure ad hom, nicely played. Generally such things are written when folks like 'jon smith' don't have any real criticism to share. But a simple insult hurled from an assumed higher plane is what passes for 'critical thinking' nowadays.

Personally, there was heroin found at a bust of a neighbor's pot operation, but sadly, they were model neighbors compared to the folks a couple of lots down the road who are the area's sociopaths... a fenced in compound whose most infamous resident has been in and out of jail. The problem with the pot growing supporters in Nevada County is the pie in the sky misunderstanding of the economics that will drive profits back into the ground as larger and more efficient growers put the mom and pop stoners out of business.

As long as the stoner is over 18, I say go for it. But not in no smoking anything areas, and not where public drinking of alcohol is not allowed. And, if you get into a motor accident while compromised, expect the book to be thrown at you. Fortunately, a stoner is more likely to sit and contemplate their navel than a methhead or an alkie.

[Mary Wanna]

Posted by: George Rebane | 10 February 2018 at 02:01 PM - How you got from me offering an opinion that Mr. Bessee is fear mongering to I think Mr. Bessee should be denied his First Amendment rights is beyond my comprehension.

Re: MJ trafficking - foxy use of a word 'trafficking'; a word associated with commerce and trade in day to day use, but achieves more nefarious undertones when used in conjunction with MJ. Well played.

Re: "Perhaps you have some data showing how infrequently we encounter Mr Bessee's claims" - Mr. Bessee thinks he is the expert. It should be up to him to provide the proof that MJ commerce and regulations are going to hell in a hand basket with more than a few distressing anecdotes.

[Walt]

I still have plenty of friends in low places. Word has it, there is so much dope no one can sell it.Even on the street. So who is going to pay overtaxed retail for what can be picked up dirt cheap?

[Paul Emery]

Don

what exactly should the NC Board of Supervisors decide when it comes to commercial Marijuana cultivation? Also should there be any dispensaries or retail outlsts in Nevada County.

[jon smith]

Paul 3:44- I breathlessly await Bessee's reply. Bessee was not invited to join the CAG because he is unwilling to join a conversation other than to say "no". The CAG was looking for direction, not blind obstruction. Bessee finally got a seat at the CAG through whining and kicking the dust with the toe of his shiny boot. Once there, he was as incalcitrant as predicted and despite promising to report on the CAG/Board meeting, when things didn't go his way, he refused to do so and took his toys and went home.

Scott 12:37 - What in the world are you talking about?? We are discussing the legalization of MJ and all you can do is rant in generalities about how "the left" wants to control us. Is that some sort of argument against or in favor of legalization? Next you will be spinning tales about the Deep State, black helicopters, and Jade Helm. We can go there, but at the moment, one argument at a time please.

Finally (in no particular order) GR 10:51 - None of us know what manufacture and distribution will look like in 10 years. Anyone who pretends otherwise is lying or guessing. When the prohibition of alcohol ended, so did most of the illegal stills, midnight runs down Copperhead Road with tommy gunners on the running boards, and gang/mafia involvement. Distillation became regulated, centralized, and taxed and distribution became no more nefarious than the distribution of milk. I think it is logical to assume that weed will progress in a somewhat similar fashion, and like the wine industry, small boutique producers will thrive. All of the hair burning and dire prognostications from the Bessee types simply failed to materialize. Is this an irrational line of thinking?

[Paul Emery]

Yeah Jon. Talk is cheap. What polisy do you specifically advocate for Nevada County. No growing? Some growing? If so where and how much? No pot shops or processing centers? If it's some where and how many. Don, you are the expert and representative of others who think like you. where's the beef?

[Paul Emery]

That's "Don, What policy...."

[George Rebane]

re jons 500pm - I most certainly don't claim a crystal ball on what legalized MJ will look like in 10 years. But if there's money to be made there, I think the big guys will dominate and drive the boutique growers and distributors out on price and quality alone. But my recommendation has always been that Nevad County not lead in testing different MJ policies, but prudently follow the best practices of other more risk averse jurisdictions. In short, we should take our time.

Then there's always the butt stupid government bureaucrats who may set taxes so high that the black market will continue and thrive.

[Walt]

It's sure fun to see the other side squirm for a change. The NIMBYism changes feet. Funny how the same clan that apposed honest work (IMM Mine) is same that love their dope. Now they use "property rights". So did IMM. Environmental issues? Yup, got those too.
Every argument that was used against IMM, can be applied to dope.
Yet the dopers believe law only apply to the other guy.

[Account Deleted]

OK - we're done. first jon smith says - "History shows us that those who demand the most control over others are those who harbor the greatest insecurity and lack of self worth."
Then he writes - "What in the world are you talking about?? We are discussing the legalization of MJ and all you can do is rant in generalities about how "the left" wants to control us."
jonnie boy can't keep track of his own argument. How in the world can I have a conversation with some one that denies their words just a few inches up on the screen?
The original post was about Bessee outlining (with facts) ways in which the new laws re legal MJ are not being properly administered. Instead of countering with a cogent argument, jonnie boy personally attacks Bessee as some one who has a personality disorder in wanting to 'control' people.
So, jonnie boy - if you don't want to go into who wants to control whom, I would suggest you don't bring up the subject in the first place.

[Don Bessee]

I think what you will see is the R zones left alone. A limited number of non-remuneration medical co-op grows. Perhaps a few cottage medical grows. What you all are not dealing with is that the issues that got the Cal Growers to sue the state make for nice rhetoric but the legislature has the power to change 64 with a super majority. They did and by taking off the grow cap they sealed the economic doom of small competitors. You will have a dispensary in NC so there is your access and everyone has their own 6 plants.

Why build out an expensive bureaucracy for a rapidly contracting structure that is already scrabbling for customers and not finding them? Producing 10 to 12 times what the market needs is a formula for mass failure.

;-)

[Bill Tozer]

Don @ 6:08 pm.

Yep, the bigger picture is what we should look at in this post. Gotta put Nevada City aside. They got theirs. They can put 4 dispensaries in if they want, albeit I laughed when Bost Ave. was mentioned. That was where the old Alan P. Lovett Recovery Home was, before the county stepped in and started finding it and made detoxing spun dry folks smoke outside. Going up Bost Ave. you could walk into the Lovett home on the right, or the graveyard on the left. Choice is yours. :).
Nevada City doesn’t even have a bank downtown anymore and nary a fast food joint or one 7-11....and get along fine without those kind of places. Now they think 4 dispensaries may not be enough. Some people, I tell ya. Much ado about nuthin’.

Think you will be correct about Nevada County codes...and all county codes. Not a lot of homes in business districts, to paint the entire state with the ole broadbrush. Different counties will have tailored codes. Urban vs Rural counties with different sets of problems and challenges. Then what to do with cul-d-sac communities and Elm tree lined neighborhoods? That is the question to be decided. One size does not fit all, and yes, why should neighbors suffer?

Can you have pigs in your backyard, or just chickens? Or a dog and cat? HOAs? Legal to smoke it, but legal to grow it? Where and how many plants. Indoor or outdoor? Local control. Don’t forsee any big grows going on at Morgan Ranch or LOP. That’s where the real debate will be going down. Not out in the sticks so much and not in business zones, but where neighborhoods are. And yes, there have been dispensaries that have caused more problems than what they are worth in various locales.

[Account Deleted]

Nevada City already has many diverse 'dispensaries' - just walk down Commercial street on any given evening.

[jon smith]

Bessee 6:08-
"scrabbling for customers and not finding them." Back up your statement with examples. The Colfax dispensary just hired 6 new employees to keep up with the influx of customers.

"Producing 10 to 12 times what the market needs is a formula for mass failure."
And this is why you are opposed to the regs????? Honestly?? Thanks for the concern Don. We are deeply grateful that you are out there protecting the MJ industry from itself.

[Bill Tozer]

Drive carefully on April 20th. Amateurs will be out.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/420-marijuana-holiday-a-dangerous-time-on-the-road-study-finds/

[Walt]

Funny you should bring that up Bill.
Was on 174 the other evening. And what was holding up traffic? Yup, a stoner.
Ten MPH under the speed limit, not staying within the lines. And every few minutes a good puff of smoke belched out the window. So many cars behind us we could not see the last on.
I was kinda hoping someone from behind would road rage the somebitch.

[Don Bessee]

The 'jon' @ 115 missed the point. Why should the taxpayers set up an expensive bureaucracy with all those lovely govt. pensions for a contracting market? Its about protecting the taxpayers from carrying the bag when the market collapse fully embraces the whole state. ;-)

[jon smith]

Don-
Red herring. The state is lending 52 million to the pot board to get traction and fully expects to be repaid in the first year by the 15% state sales tax on weed. The "taxpayers" don't need your protection. Thanks for the thought though. I think your bigger issue might be the loss of law enforcement revenue and possible loss of jobs in prison inc. because of the reduction in criminal penalties and incarcerations.

Walt-
I am 100% behind you regarding stoned driving. Until we can devise a way to measure the active load in someone's system and define a legal limit, the culpability should be on the USER, and if any amount of MJ is detected in their system they should be considered DWI. If someone is caught imbibing in a motor vehicle, they should get slapped with a DWI even if they don't act the least bit intoxicated.

[Don Bessee]

Wrong @ 324. That's the state, all other municipalities, cities & counties are on the hook for their own administrative structure, salaries and benefits.

Don't forget that Oregon has not yet paid back the loan to set up their state bureaucracy. Their legislature already scrapped the tax sharing plan and plow all the money into the general fund because they do not have a system that is paying its way. Not a model we want to replicate.

[Jaye Smith]

Bill@948pm - "I laughed when Bost Ave. was mentioned"

Wrong side of the freeway my friend. The location is in the property to the south of South Yuba Club on the other Bost Ave. I guess it went though BF (before freeway).

[Bill Tozer]

Tanks Jave, tanks a rocket.

[Jaye Smith]

With the Bost Ave. processing plant, the dispensary on the South Yuba Club site and (I think) the purchase of the main So Yuba Club building for something MJ related, Nevada City has its very own MJ business incubator complex.

[Mary Wanna]

Monica Senter wrote a good MJ related piece in yesterday's TheUnion.com.
Good to know we have some voices of reason to counter the fear-based hyperbole being tossed around by a few.

http://bit.ly/2Ciplwr

[George Rebane]

MaryW 736am - Ms Senter did indeed write good MJ piece in the 13feb18 Union. In a calm reasoned voice she laid out the facts that -
1. MJ grows have been a neighborhood nuisance problem.
2. Additional MJ grows still are and will continue to be a problem.
3. There is no known or accepted solutions to residential MJ grow problems.
4. There is no guarantee that MJ regulations and local jurisdiction ordinances will either solve MJ nuisance problems or significantly reduce the illegal production and distribution of MJ.

And today at the Rood Center we will hear what our county Supes have learned from the recent CAG, and how they will advise staff to draft our new MJ ordinance.

[jon smith]

Agreed. It is refreshing to have people like Monica who can communicate in an emotion free, factual basis. She is what the CAG was shopping for, not the razor bearded "just say no" pontificators or "weed for everyone, all the time, everywhere" folks. Solid information with a large and honest dose of, "We don't pretend to have all answers, and there are no universal solutions." Thank you.

[Mary Wanna]

1. Dogs off leashes have been a neighborhood nuisance problem.
2. Additional dogs off leashes still are and will continue to be a problem.
3. There is no known or accepted solutions to residential dogs off leashes problems.
4. There is no guarantee that dog leash regulations and local jurisdiction ordinances will either solve dogs off leashes nuisance problems or significantly reduce the the number of dogs off leashes.

[George Rebane]

MaryW 1051am - Excellent revelatory reply Ms Wanna. And pray, how in your mind does your pithy example relate in scope or magnitude to the problem of nationally legalizing MJ with which CA and the several states today are wrestling?

[Bill Tozer]

Mary

Hit them in the pocket book. Second offense for an unleashed potentially dangerous dog is 500 smackers. And if you walk them, they must be muzzled and on a leash no longer than 6 feet in length. And that is just for killing chickens or kittens. 3 rd offense is a thousand dollar fine and LE getting a court order to kill the dog. Now, that is how you solve the problem of potentially dangerous dogs running amok...er...unleashed. Fine that crap out of Mrs. Jones for having 7 plants, not 6. 3 strikes and off to the marble orchard.

[Paul Emery]

George

Can I assume that you defer to States Rights when it comes to conflicts with MJ laws and regulations?

[Gregory]

Paul 1250

Can I assume you don't have a rational basis for your 1250?

I expect people who don't think mota is a good thing to use statutes and regulations to make it as difficult as possible to grow, buy, and smoke in California despite a vote in a statewide election. Don't you?

[Walt]

Wrong Mary. There is solutions to that dog problem. As a former rancher, any dog molesting livestock died of lead poisoning.

In your case, call the dog catcher That's his elected job.
Your pretty good at bitching here, so use that talent around your own neighborhood.

The dope house near by made all sorts or racket in the dead of night. So the next day, the gun range in my backyard was open for business all afternoon. They got the message.

[Walt]

Back on that kick Paul? FEDS trump state's rights. I know how you like to pick and choose. Right now "local control"( which you spoke so highly of) ain't working in your favor at the moment. Now you want the state to wack the county's peepee?

Never mind the state hates the Bill of Rights as it is. Look no further than the 2ND Amendment. The state hates the interstate commerce clause. " we don't like coal. No coal exports form "our" ports.

So when Calexit happens, we can help you pack.

[Gregory]

Walt... Feds trump State when they have the power and authority under the Constitution.

I am quite sure the ICC does trump California's right to stop coal from flowing from sea towards inland states or vice versa, but the religion of Climate Change leads many to decide stopping the 'trains of death' is the right thing to do. I say tough.

But with pot, how can the Feds decide that some stoner growing pot in NSJ and it being smoked by some stoner in Chico has anything to do with interstate commerce? The only argument I've heard are a variation on if you're stoned all the time you won't work and make all of us wealthier... but do you have a right to someone else's time and productivity? If you say no, then you must agree with me that it goes both ways and that would mean the stoners don't have a right to expect health care because you are eating, breathing and prefer being stoned to being fed, clothed and medicated by drugs that don't just grow in the ground. Recombinant DNA cures aren't cheap, nor is the decades of education that must occur before the brainstorms.

But at least one incredible breakthrough was a result of a scientist thinking about his problem du jour tripping on LSD. Should that be illegal?

There are no easy answers.

[Bill Tozer]

ICC

The Supreme Court has since relied heavily on Filburn in upholding the power of the federal government to prosecute individuals who grow their own medicinal marijuana pursuant to state law. The Supreme Court subsequently held that, as with the home-grown wheat at issue in the present case, home-grown marijuana is a legitimate subject of federal regulation because it competes with marijuana that moves in interstate commerce. As the Court explained in Gonzales v. Raich (2005):

Wickard thus establishes that Congress can regulate purely intrastate activity that is not itself "commercial", in that it is not produced for sale, if it concludes that failure to regulate that class of activity would undercut the regulation of the interstate market in that commodity.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

[Paul Emery]

What is your view Walt? Do you personally support the Feds in this matter?

[Walt]

The point I was trying to make was that The state and choice LIBS are playing the "state's rights" card on just about everything. From guns to drugs to what goes through shipping ports. SCREW the FEDs.
HELL! This state thinks it's entitled to grant money." You can't cut off our welfare!"
I'm sure there is some wise ass out there that would make the argument that if "the state", passed a law making killing someone A OK if the bastard desperately needed kill'n. "The FEDS can't tough ME! State's rights"."

[Paul Emery]

Lying Walt wrote this "Now you want the state to wack the county's peepee"

Can you show our readers where I said that? A direct quote from this blog will do.

[Paul Emery]

Don

"
Jeff Sessions’ marijuana decision may not have immediate impacts in Colorado, but it has set off a political firestorm
Cory Gardner, Mike Coffman accuse Trump administration of overstepping into state’s rights"

If illegal pot is such a bad thing in Colorado how do you explain the uproar by even republicans over Sessions moves to enforce federal law. Republican Senator Cory Gardner writes:

“Before I voted to confirm Attorney General Sessions, he assured me that marijuana would not be a priority for this administration,” Gardner said in a statement. “Today’s action directly contradicts what I was told, and I am prepared to take all steps necessary, including holding (Justice Department) nominees, until the attorney general lives up to the commitment he made to me prior to his confirmation.”

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/04/jeff-sessions-marijuana-colorado-firestorm/

[fish]

Posted by: Walt | 13 February 2018 at 02:33 PM

Remember Walt.....anybody who is in favor of States Rights is a racist who wants to bring back segregation and eventually slavery.

I’m just glad Paul has finally admitted that this is his goal.

[Paul Emery]

Fish

what is your view on States Rights and the question of marijuana both recreational and medical.

[Bill Tozer]

Punchy,
It’s not a matter of what or how someone “personally feels.” It’s a matter of what the Supreme Court says. Commerence clause and all that. Growing wheat to feed your cows? That’s a Bozo No-no.

It’s that Jeff Rasict Sessions up to his lying ways that gets you sweating bullets....again. The fly in the ointment, the hitch in the plan, your Matrix is not perfect. Obama did not declassify the houchy houchy flowers and leaves as a Class 1 drug and neither will that anti-dope smoker Sessions. Sweet dreamies, butterfly kisses, and keep looking over your shoulder.
Play it again, Sam. “Paranoia runs deep, into your life it will creep, it starts when you are always afraid....step out of line and The Man comes and takes you away.”

Oh, the best laid plans of mice and man.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 13 February 2018 at 06:17 PM

Now Punch....you of all people know that I refuse to engage in your Matlock bit. Where you clumsily employ a series of vague, open ended questions in an attempt to get the questionee to make a mistake that allows to to pounce and make some bold, self satisfied exclamation like.....ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY..or...IS IT REALLY YOUR POSITION....etc.

The fact remains that the left has long used "States Rights" as a code word for crypto-racist thought. Your former colleague (and convicted sex offender) Bernie Ward of KGO fame was famous for this accusation. Somehow I find myself believing that you would find yourself in substantial agreement with Mr. Ward on most matters states rights related.

[Paul Emery]

I thought you were a Conservative Fish. Sure got that wrong.

[Paul Emery]

Don't know Bernie Ward Fish. Must be a friend of yours.

[Paul Emery]

Bill, what is your view about States Rights in this matter? what side are you on?

[Walt]

Paul It's your position that the state needs to come marching in and set the county right (and GV too) that dope growing and sales is legal? Fines and penalties!,, Right? When local control isn't going as you planed. Correct?
Ca. is still part of the Union.. Correct? The state signed an agreement to become part of the Union.. Correct? In that agreement the people of the state (every damned one..)are to follow all the FED laws. Correct?
Now go and dig up all the "rights" the State DIDN'T secede to the Union.
Show me MJ as part of that... Dare you.

So if the FEDS care to march through the county on a scorched earth policy to rid the place of every dope grow, they can.(not that they actually will)

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 13 February 2018 at 06:46 PM

I thought you were a Conservative Fish. Sure got that wrong.

Unsurprisingly Punch you absolutely did get that wrong.

You conceded the libertarian nature of my position on the marijuana issue a year or so ago here at Rebanes. Further I am absent from the weed discussions at RR's because I have no real position on the matter and imagine that in a couple of years most of the details will have sorted themselves out and this unpleasantness will be behind us.

[Bill Tozer]

@ 6:31pm.

Now Punch....you of all people know that I refuse to engage in your Matlock bit. Where you clumsily employ a series of vague, open ended questions in an attempt to get the questionee to make a mistake that allows to to pounce and make some bold, self satisfied exclamation like.....ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY..or...IS IT REALLY YOUR POSITION....etc.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/998029060347316/?type=3&theater

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 13 February 2018 at 06:46 PM

Don't know Bernie Ward Fish. Must be a friend of yours.

I find this mildly amusing from someone in radio. You are either lying or more likely simply forgotten a major player on the progressive side of talk radio.

Might be time to hang up those cans Punch!

[Bill Tozer]

Paul,
I am on the side of law and order. I may or may not like SCOTUS ruling, but after either bitchin’ about a decision or popping champagne corks, I come around to acceptance of the Constitutional rule of law.

Do you want to talk about your pain? Can I assume you need to talk about your pain,

Why should neighborhoods suffer?

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1257062061094495/?type=3&theater

Yep, I stand on the side of the law.

[Bill Tozer]

Why why why should neighborhoods suffer? States rights!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/13/grossly-impaired-illegal-immigrant-blamed-for-crash-that-killed-toddler.html

[Walt]

Why should we all suffer?????
https://www.theunion.com/news/nid-fears-pot-grows-could-make-water-conservation-more-challenging/ Since some don't read links,,,Paul,,,
"The Nevada Irrigation District on Tuesday said it may have to re-work its master plan, which projects NID's water needs until 2023, to account for water usage associated with legal marijuana grows.

Because California's new cannabis regulations allow for the cultivation of up to six plants indoors, NID customers not associated with agricultural water use could potentially be using additional water, the district said.

NID, which follows conservation mandates levied by the state, also said Tuesday it fears a potential uptick in cannabis cultivation could pose challenges in meeting California's requirements."

Naaa we don't need anymore dams. Canyons choked with overgrowth and a wildfire waiting to happen,, is considered "pretty".

[Don Bessee]

This kinda tells the story but leaves out some significant issues like ceqa/water that the Supervisors discussed as a limiting factor to how commercial many grows there can be.

https://www.theunion.com/news/local-news/nevada-county-staff-now-prepped-to-write-draft-marijuana-ordinance/

;-)

[Don Bessee]

DOH! many commercial grows there can be. ;-)

[Don Bessee]

Here is the actual report Walt @736-

http://nidwater.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/021318_WHO_Item3.pdf

;-)