Gun violence town hall in Nevada City (updated 7apr18)

George Rebane

[This is the transcript of my regular KVMR commentary broadcast on 4 April 2018.]

Today the Second Amendment and gun violence are on the minds of many people.  Both subjects have widely different meanings for Americans, and the usual conversations held on these topics more often than not find people talking past each other because they share no common facts, definitions of terms, knowledge of history, and usually debate only to promote totally different futures for America.  In short, neither their agendas nor narratives are compatible.  On 20 April there will be a town hall meeting in Nevada City to attempt a better understanding of all this that I’ll tell you about in a minute.

Since the Parkland shootings, the Left has again made gun control a national issue, seeing it as the most recent not-to-be-wasted perfect storm to flood the country with the next layer of gun control laws.  What distinguishes their current efforts from the past is that the cat is finally out of the bag – the Left’s goal is not just adopting what they call ‘common sense’ laws and regulations, but the total abrogation of civilian gun ownership.  And former Supreme Court Justice Stevenson openly declared the preferred method to be through the repeal of the Second Amendment.

What continues to fuel the debate in the media is the way that information on guns – their types, functioning, gun deaths, gun violence, (yes, these are different), ownership rates, applicable laws, the effect of various levels of controls, etc – how all this is disseminated.  Listening to the gun confiscation folks, you would think that there has been a dramatic increase in gun violence, however that is characterized.  Looking at the plain facts, gathered and published by outfits like Pew Research, FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports, Centers for Disease Control, and other reputable private and public agencies, the reality is quite different.

Here are some “stubborn facts” to consider when you next talk about gun violence and gun control –

• Violent crime is down and has been on the decline for decades.
• The principal public safety concerns with respect to guns are suicides and illegally owned handguns, not mass shootings.
• A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.
• Gun-related murders are carried out by a predictable pool of people.
• Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.
• There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.
• Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often, about 450,000 times annually, than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.
• Concealed carry or CCW permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution. CCW permit holders are arguably the most law-abiding people in the country.  Our police, who are very law-abiding, still commit crimes at 6 to 10 times the rate that CCW holders do.

To put the loss of human life into some perspective, consider that insect bites kill more people than the criminal use of guns.  More people are stabbed to death each year than are shot with rifles.  Surprisingly, the London murder rate with knives is now higher than the gun murder rate in New York.  And each year medical mistakes kill over 20 times the number of people murdered with guns.  So, there is much more to know about gun violence than what is repeated on every-day media.  (more here)

In light of all this, a group of concerned progressives will gather in the Nevada City Council chambers on the evening of 20 April to hold a town hall in order to “find common ground for efforts that can be initiated right here in Nevada County to make us all safer.”  The meeting, moderated by Judge Tom Anderson, will be a discussion and not a debate.  It will feature a panel that includes Carla Wolfclaw, who wrote on school security measures after the Columbine massacre, and a number of locals to which I have been added to provide either some measure of balance or, perhaps, comic relief, not necessarily in that order.  More information will be available soon on local radio and in The Union.

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on Rebane’s Ruminations where the transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and where such issues are debated extensively.  However, my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

[6apr18 update]  Until something more formal appears in the media, I am posting below the draft "blurb", as received, from the organizers on the upcoming town hall.  Since the receipt, I have been informed by KVMR that they will do a live broadcast of the event.

Foothill Arts Resources & Media (The FARM) is a 501 C 3 Non-Profit entity.  Our mission is to provide professional assistance & occasional funding to local projects that would be of interest to our community, in addition to producing our own events. Our team is comprised of passionate individuals with long-term experience in activism, organizing and event planning, as well as strong independent media involvement.

Our current project is to produce a Town Hall Meeting on the topic of Guns; this will include gun safety, gun violence, interpretations of the Second Amendment to the Constitution, student input, judicial and law enforcement input, and an opportunity for knowledgeable panelists to share their thoughts, feelings & expertise. The goal is to bridge the gap, and rather than be divisive, to find areas where we, as a community, can find common ground, and begin to find workable solutions to this important, ongoing and highly charged topic.  This will be a forum in which the public can ask questions of the panelists. (These questions will be vetted by our team, and will include all points of view, as our goal is to be inclusive).

The meeting will be carried LIVE on NCTV and streamed over the internet on Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 6:30 P.M. and will be held in the Nevada City Council chambers at 317 Broad St. Nevada City, CA.

We are planning to work with KVMR to see if they, too, would be interested in carrying the event. We have received a “thumbs-up” from The Union, as well.

[7apr18 update]  I received the following press release entitled, 'Town Hall Notice - Guns a Community Dialogue' from Ms Patricia Smith of FARM.  It is posted as received.

Press Release:

Guns: A Community Dialog will be the topic of a public Town Hall Meeting to be held on Friday, April 20, from 6:30 - 8:30 pm in the Nevada City Hall Council Chambers, 317 Broad Street. 

The Town Hall is being produced by Foothills Arts Resources & Media (FARM) with partners NCTV and KVMR who will carry a LIVE broadcast of this event. (NCTV, Comcast Ch. 17 or Suddenlink Ch. 16; KVMR, 89.5 FM.) It will also be streamed over the internet at www.kvmr.org and nevadacountytv.org.

Superior Court Judge Thomas Anderson will moderate. The panel consists of Amanda Wilcox, Legislation & Policy Chair of the California Chapters of the Brady Campaign; Carla Holtzclaw, School Safety Trainer & Consultant, retired educator & former Chair of the Santa Clara County Behavioral Health Board; Dr. George Rebane, certified range safety officer, life member of the NRA, who has researched and written extensively on the Second Amendment; Morgan Margulies, a senior at Nevada Union High School and captain of the campus debate team; Jerod Johnson, a retired Grass Valley Police captain, gun safety expert and owner of The Range, and Michael Gomez, former Bureau Chief, California Dept. of Justice Commission on Peace Officer Standards & Training (POST).

Among the topics to be discussed will be school and public safety procedures, warning signs of mental health issues, gun proficiency & safety training, concerns of our youth, and Second Amendment rights.

The goal is to bridge the gap, and rather than be divisive, find areas where we, as a community, can reach common ground. Foremost is finding workable, local solutions to this important, ongoing and highly charged topic.

This will be an inter-active forum in which the public can ask questions of the panelists via written cards. All points of view will be included, however the questions will be vetted to eliminate duplication and remain within the time limitations of a live broadcast.  FARM is a 501 (c) 3, non-profit. Our mission is to provide professional assistance & occasional funding to local projects that would be of interest to our community, in addition to producing our own events.

Seating is limited: Info:530-268-5754 or see FARM's Facebook page, Foothill Arts, Resources and Media FARM where you can reserve a seat.

Comments

[Account Deleted]

Well, thanks for showing up Patricia and refusing to back up your 'say'.
As far as being a great opportunity to learn something - I keep hearing that but I'll bet you 20 bucks it's the same old BS. We always have an opportunity to learn.
I will try to listen in via the internet and then let you know if I hear anything new.
Maybe the left will come up with some new pipe-dream. That'll be worth the money in entertainment alone.

[Scenes]

The plot thickens.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/06/massachusetts-ban-on-assault-weapons-doesnt-violate-2nd-amendment-judge-rules.html

'"That notion was ruled out, however, as the judge pointed out that the design of semi-automatic AR-15's is based on guns "that were first manufactured for military purposes" and that the AR-15 is "common and well-known in the military."

"The AR-15 and its analogs, along with large capacity magazines, are simply not weapons within the original meaning of the individual constitutional right to 'bear arms,'" Young said.'

It's an interestingly tortured interpretation.

Just imagine how many 1911's, Enfields, 1873 Springfields, Garands, etc. etc. etc. (to quote Yul Brynner) need to be picked up. The ability for a modern judge to ignore both reality and the Constitution is an amazing thing.

[Bill Tozer]

Criminals obey gun control laws as good as Democrats obey immigration laws. I think I have made up my mind. They can go throw sand on themselves. Come to Papa.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1028277323989156/?type=3&theater

[jon smith]

You guys are going sideways on this. Inch by inch you are losing and if you can't see the light and pull your collective heads out of your butts and come up with something better than "my grand pappy had this here gun, so I owns it too." all of us will lose.

I like my guns but I sorely hate having people like you "defending" my ability to own them. You are painting yourselves into a corner, but are too fucking narrow minded to see the obvious.

Be my guests , but I am NOT an opponent to gun rights. If you think I am you enemy, you are seriously under estimating the forces against you. Don't shoot the messenger.

[Gregory]

PS 725pm

Once again, you confuse your drive by postings and Other Voices with dialog. Patricia, if your opinions were bolstered by facts that weren't your own unsupportable "facts", they'd at least be identifiable as opinion and not delusions screaming to be corrected by gunsplaining.

scenes 805pm
Judge Young is past his pull date (he's 77 years old) and fully vested in the John Paul Stevens school that wants the 2nd to go away. His is a lowest level Federal judgeship and there's the circuit court of appeals and SCOTUS to go. This is part of the grind forward.

[Bill Tozer]

Come hell or high water you ain’t taking one right from us. Hell and High Water was arrived. Worth the full play.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dZn0D_9VY8

[Gregory]

js 839pm

If you think your apparent vision of a controlled surrender will do anything but give away the store, it is you who are delusional.

Personally, I think Justice Stevens may have single handedly given the GOP their issue for November. It is the 2nd Amendment... Put simply, Democrats want to repeal it with little David "Camera" Hogg showing the way. The last time guns put a Democrat in the dumpster was Al Gore who could have been President ... had he won his home state ... and it's his and his party's stance on guns that made that happen. It's also the probable reason that the triumvirate of Obama, Pelosi and Reid didn't tackle the issue when they controlled Washington. They didn't want to wake up the sleeping giant in the room until they also controlled the SCOTUS 5/4 or even 6/3. Too late.

All you GOP Mitch McConnell haters, you need to seriously kiss his ass. He's packing the judiciary and saving your sorry butts and the 2nd for posterity.

[Scenes]

re: Gregory@11:13PM

Good post and exactly correct I think. Nothing lights up the base like threatening gun confiscation.

A secondary campaign tactic will be running against California. This place has become so crazy that you can wrap up all the things that traditional America doesn't like just by mentioning the state's name. Waving around the names Pelosi and Feinstein are like red rags to a bull, even if they are probably the least radical of the big-deal office holders. Being against California is also a more socially acceptable way to express a belief in national borders without having your thrice-divorced harridan aunt shout 'racism' at you over the Thanksgiving table.

In terms of that Judge Young character, I'd like to get a couple of cocktails into him and see what's up. I took a gander at the Mass. gun law (in particular, the section on what is allowed) and it made about as little sense as you'd expect. The reasoning involving the military is a real head scratcher but I'll have to scan the actual documents instead of just trusting some website.

[Scenes]

Mattel ad.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8sra4ZEdw1qly5awo1_1280.jpg

[Account Deleted]

"You guys are going sideways on this. Inch by inch you are losing..."
I probably agree about this. We conservatives are losing. On most all fronts. The schools, entertainment media and most all news media have done a darn good job of raising up a couple of generations of un-educated peasants begging for the chains of mommy govt to come and wipe their ass and blow their nose. Like all other personal responsibilities, the idea of protecting one's self and home is being turned completely over to the govt as the adults that never grow up don't want the hassle or the responsibility of fire arm ownership.
As far as jonnie boy 'not being the enemy' - as was mentioned earlier - yes, you are.
A slow surrender of any Constitutional right is still surrender.
The idea that millions of law abiding citizens should be considered evil because they have the same tool in the tool box as a handful of nut cases is actually quite bizarre.
The Dems might very well do OK in the next election round as the whole 'gun control' thing for them is just an election issue club to beat the Rs over the head with.

[Gregory]

No, I think the gun issue is not just an issue to beat the GOP over the head with. Guns are scary to the perpetually scared. They want them handled by professionals only... you know, the guys who didn't enter the building at MSD.

Beware the Ides of June... I think the most interesting event of the year will be the expected Thumbs Down from the SCOTUS on the Janus case. Public employee unions in the 22 states that take money from non-union employees to give to the union ... it is estimated the unions effected will lose half their revenue unless they figure out how to get members without their cousin Vinny to collect it for them.

The California Teachers Assn is the 800lb gorilla in Sacramento; expect them to make it hard for teachers wanting their money back in their paychecks to get taken off the weekly bloodletting, but I've heard there's also a case on the SCOTUS calendar challenging the limited times some public employee unions set for changing status. "Oh, there's one week a year where you can change ... put it on your calendar for next year".

[Bill Tozer]

Getting back to Dr. Rebane’s post, it really is all hat and no cattle. Pre-approved questions are submitted to a panel and the members of the panel offer their opinions on the question with their answers. Kids will offer up questions as well.

No much Nevada County or Nevada City can do. Yes, Nevada City can come up with a proclaimnation like their declaring Nevada City a nuke free zone or stand in solidarity with the women of Pakistan or something and the crowd can all go home or met for a few drinks of alchol afterwards...unless Heidi is there without her designated driver.

After all the discussions and back and forth, it really comes down to an exercise in gunsplaining. An AR-15 firing .223 rounds remains just a tweety weenie ever so slightly slightlylarger than a semi-auto 22. .22 verses ,.223. Yawn.

I suppose we can petition the gun manufactures or courts or legislatures to outlaw certain colors of the 22 rifles. Our fearless leaders wanted to prohibit black cars in CA (to save the planet), so maybe they should try to prohibit black guns. Black is the universal code word for the dark side, evil, bad juju. The dude with the black hat. A nice florescent pink .223 rifle would stand out in a crowd and be easier to spot. Of course, a 9mm semi-auto pistol would be exempt because it is much easier to conceal in your waistband and does not look as sinister as its longer cousin, the sinister black AR-15 semi-auto 22 weapon of mass destruction. Ah hell, make all guns florescent pink of lime green. Maybe an occasion magenta barrel would be allowed.

Rebane’s Update 4/6/2018. should be easy to find out exactly who is sits on this non profit’s board and members. Wonder if it has anything even remotely associated with the local old hippies that hang around the rear of the Nevada Theather or that stone old building behind on Spring Street. Ya think?

“Foothill Arts Resources & Media (The FARM) is a 501 C 3 Non-Profit entity. Our mission is to provide professional assistance & occasional funding to local projects that would be of interest to our community, in addition to producing our own events. Our team is comprised of passionate individuals with long-term experience in activism, organizing and event planning, as well as strong independent media involvement.

Our current project is to produce a Town Hall Meeting on the topic of Guns; this will include blah, blah, blah.”

They only seek common ground (righttttt) and occasionally give mula to seemed worthy causes. Ok. It’s their baby now? Least we know who the boss of me is.

[Gregory]

"The Town Hall is about bringing together people from as many different backgrounds as possible to discuss this issue. The panel was chosen carefully to eliminate "hotheads" on either side so a rational discussion can ensue."
-P Smith

So, the panel has been chosen, past tense. So when does that get a release to the public. George, do you know who your fellow panelmembers are?

[Walt]

Lets start the day off right, by filling a few lefty diapers right after bath time.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/04/07/newt-gingrich-california-may-elect-republican-governor-incredible-as-that-sounds.html

That should do it.

[jon smith]

Walt- Did you even read the article? "A survey by SmithJohnson Research found that 99.6 percent of California Republicans said they planned to vote in the June primary, with 97 percent reporting they “definitely will vote.”"

Nothing remotely close to this has ever happened in a California election, much less a primary. Go ahead my friend, pin your hopes on a 99.6 percent pubber turnout. Back to your bath.

[Walt]

Now don't you worry about it. There are PLENTY of independents.
You Proggys forget about them. Now give your care giver a new call.
As soon as the rain lets up you can go back to collecting names off grave stones so they can vote one more time.

[Todd Juvinall]

Walt I have maintained that democrats don't turn out as many voters as R's in any given election and if we had a substantial turnout of R's we could take the state. But alas, people don't get out to vote like we want.

[George Rebane]

Gregory 942am - I've reported all I have been told. Some other local names (whom I don't know) were mentioned as possible participants, but the panels members will be announced in a soon forthcoming 'blurb' from FARM. If/when they email it to me, I'll post it here.

[Walt]

No names yet????
This sounds like another episode of Snopes-VS-Scooper in the making.

[Bill Tozer]

Eureka! At last, we have found common ground.

We must outlaw AR-15 looking rifles in CA. We must limit high capacity magazines (already done) even though the common ground is most made up of folks who couldn't tell us the difference between a mag and a clip are the common ground. We need more gun laws. We need to revisit the 2nd Amendment. We need to keep criminals and crazies from owing guns (already done). We need to stop people walking into a gun show and walking out with a gun (already done).

So glad the common ground had been reached. Glad we are told what common ground means.

[Walt]

A dose of reality for "jon" and friends how it's like with "real strict" anti gun laws.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2018/04/06/tijuana-549-homicides-2018-amid-mexican-army-deployment/

Now wait for "it can never happen here"..

[Walt]

saw Crabbman's latest in the local rag...
Note to Crabb.. I'm not that short.

[jon smith]

He nailed the crossed arms, closed eyes, and nose in the air though.

[Walt]

DAMN "jon",, Blind too! Yup the sheriff needs to take your gun.
NEVER be an eye witness. Maybe you didn't notice. I have a full face of hair, and NOT bald.
Your ability to vote should be revisited.

[George Rebane]

re jons 1158am - All leftwingers have the hardwired attitude that anyone who disagrees with them, and gives ample support for their disagreement, is just someone with "crossed arms, closed eyes, and nose in the air". There is a twelve year record in these pages with ample opportunity to support such a view of me. I have issued this invitation before, and will now again - please show where I have ever taken this attitude toward another's counter to any of my beliefs or propositions made in these pages. So far only crickets have answered this invitation.

[Account Deleted]

About Crabb's cartoon - fair enough, but since Crabb is 'middle of the road', he seems to have left out the Hoggboy's non stop F-bomb laced rants of slanderous nonsense.
That sort of talk really changes minds - right.
Crabby's road that he walks down slants pretty far over to the left.
I'm thinking Walt could get it graded down a lot more level given the chance.

[Walt]

I don't know about that Scott, with permits and all.

I never got my explosives license.

[scenes]

ScottO:

"Crabby's road that he walks down slants pretty far over to the left."

Honestly, there's a certain logic to that. No doubt you are seeing a bit of an internal bias, but also, like most cartoonists, he's only going to goad the people he can get away with poking. Being gracile comes with a cost. In short, brave cartoonists get their tires slashed, the not-so-brave variety get to be mildly edgy.

Speaking of edgy.

https://i.redd.it/faa64nrqaiq01.jpg

[Bill Tozer]

Don’t think you will ever see Crabb drawn a cartoon of the Religion of Peace’s prophet. Well, not since Charlie Hebdo. But, at least he stands in solidarity with Charlie, lol. Too funny. Guess that means Crabb stands against peace.

[George Rebane]

Administrivia - for more info on the upcoming town hall, please see the 7apr18 update above.

[scenes]

"Don’t think you will ever see Crabb drawn a cartoon of the Religion of Peace’s prophet."

Of course not.

To be fair, I'm not sitting here using my real name and publishing slash and burn cartoons (and probably with funnier gags). The kind of satire and jokes someone could write might be as amusing as hell, but would result in your getting fired or a Truck of Peace(tm) ramming your house while a vibrantly diverse crowd cheers outside.

It seems to me that the editorial cartoon has always been about the most vanilla form of political humor or statement. It's just the way of the world. Mr Crabb, like anyone who does that in a traditional venue, is subject to the rules of the game. They are obviously numerous and largely unwritten.

[Bill Tozer]

Update, 7 Apr....From the FARM:

“Foremost is finding workable, local solutions to this important, ongoing and highly charged topic.”

WTF? What “solutions” are needed in Western Nevada County? Do we even have a gun problem here? Bank robbers don’t even use guns anymore.

Sure, some loud noises are heard off yonder and 4 people call 911 to report hearing noises somewhere...per the police blotter. About the biggest gun problem we have here is catching a dope fiend felon with a bag of ammo in his possession. Off to jail he goes or straight back to prison. We have laws that prevent felons and illegal aliens from even holding a gun.

About the biggest problem I see year after year is the charge of having a firearm in the commission of a crime. Headsup to illegal dope growers and car thieves. Have no guns on the premises or on you. That possession of a gun during the commission of a crime will get ya more than your honey oil lab will.

So, what is the big local gun problem we have here that needs a solution?? We have Laura’s law. We have given cops the ability to seize one’s property (guns) on the spot without being adjudicated in cases of domestic and other violence, real or threatened.

It is against the law for felons to possess guns and even for an illegal alien to hold a gun. Can’t do much when Jerry Brown pardons convicted illegal aliens with gun charges, but hopefully they will stay in the cities and not come here.

Again, pray tell, what is the gun problem here that needs a solution?? Anybody? Jon?
————-
On a related topic, I remember well the day Scott Thorpe was running amok. The youngest was in school and locked down. Got the call to come get her. She was in 2nd grade I believe. While going to pick her at school up wondering what to say to comfort her, I carefully rehearsed just the right words and tone....but not needed. When I retrieved the child from school, she said, “Daddy, my teacher lied! She lied to the whole class!”
Yep, that was all the child was concerned about. Her teacher lied! All the kids knew there was a shooter running around, even in 2nd grade and even miles away. But the teacher told the class that it was just a game the class was playing (lockdown, get away from the windows, stay put after class, etc) and the kids knew their young lib teacher was a lying sack of dog dirt, lol. It was the first time she even considered that a teacher or administrator would/could lie. She found out later they lie all the time, as did I, when bringing them to court. One big CYA, but I digress. It was a day of the loss of innocense for the child’s whole class. Shooter wasn’t their concern. Being lied to by an adult was.

[Account Deleted]

B Tozer - "Again, pray tell, what is the gun problem here that needs a solution??"
In Nevada Co (as elsewhere in the US) there exists a certain contingent of folks frightened of their own shadow. They have decided to reduce their boogie-man-du jour to the NRA and anyone who owns a scary looking gun.
They refuse to recognise threats to their health that are vastly more likely to occur.
I've marked the calendar for the 20th and will have the popcorn ready.

[George Rebane]

Messrs Tozer and Obermuller, I take it you are both familiar with Kabuki theater.

[Scenes]

also, as an aside GeorgeR, have you considered that this 'town hall' meeting is astroturf?

https://townhallproject.com/

https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/982636847913291776

https://twitter.com/hashtag/TownHallForOurLives?src=hash

It all smells like a big, honkin' PAC to me. A series of 'meetings' with preordained outcomes.

A good set of questions would be to dig into just who organized the meeting and just exactly what the circumstances were.

I shouldn't be so cynical but the world drives me to it.

[Bill Tozer]

@ 6:33 pm

Ah yes, Kabuki Theather. Translated as “bizarre theather” or the word translated as the “crazy ones.” They certainly know how to dance about and sing, bless heir little hearts. Especially the dancing part.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1292992430834791/?type=3&theater

Nope, we know the most important solution they have in mind when the hosts say, “Foremost is finding workable, local solutions to this important, ongoing and highly charged topic.” That solution to them is outlawing scary looking firearms that start with names that sound like AK-47 or M-14,, M-16s. Hmm RD D2 sounds scarey as well.

If we are going down that path, might was well outlaw pump action shotguns with 00. That is one scary mean machine, perfect for making us safer.

[Don Bessee]

Hmmm, the 20th is just about 2 weeks before the ballots got out. Just sayin' ;-)

[Bill Tozer]

April 20th, the dilemma.
4/20 marches or some Townhall meeting? Oh, what to do, what to do@? Too many choices. Hmmm. I know! Celebrate 4/20 and then go sit in on the Townhall. Probably the same crowd, so have the 4/20 party first at City Hall followed immediately by the Gun Expository. Perfect. And vote for Hilary Hodge.

[Walt]

So "everytown" is rolling in?
Let's give Bloomers a nice "country" welcome.
Plenty of pickups with rifle racks in the rear window.

[Walt]

Again in Ill?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/07/shooting-on-adult-themed-party-bus-in-illinois-kills-3.html
But they have all those anti gun laws to make people safer!
"jon"!! Where is "jon"??? You have splain'n to do!

[Don Bessee]

Yes BT, Pattie is usually occupied with the cali traditional 4/20 activities. ;-)

[Bill Tozer]

@ 7:13 pm
You just have to wait. I am still waiting for a Gun Free Zone to save a life.

Well, guns are scarey, but PTSD? Oh boy.

“the teacher involved, said she did not file a complaint with the Nevada City Police Department, but sought treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as a result of the incident.”

https://www.theunion.com/news/local-news/teacher-says-cop-pointed-gun-her-way/

[Walt]

Why am I not surprised?
"Parent Michael Anderson said the officers’ alleged actions are unacceptable"
Was he there?

[Scenes]

re: BillT@5:23PM

I hadn't thought about Thorpe in some time. It's an interesting case to consider.

There might be some value for the people at Gunapalooza to consider something that has actually happened here rather than a melange of TV shows, websites, shared 'knowledge'. Pretend for a moment that the current spate of gun activism isn't just mostly an outgrowth of Campaign 2018.

A nice overview:

http://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/thorpe-scott-harlan.htm

Weapon: 9mm handgun
Perp: Crazy guy who smokes dope and probably had a few drugs courtesy of Behavioral Health.

How can you avoid that situation while still avoiding too many hassles (or Constitutional issues) for the other 99% of humanity?

[Scenes]

A handout for Gunapalooza?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/12/10/marco-rubios-claim-that-no-recent-mass-shootings-would-have-been-prevented-by-gun-laws

[Gregory]

I won't be attending the event on the 20th. Patricia Smith apparently being involved with the planning and selection of panel members, the venue being too small, the panel members being skewed to the anti-gun side (Amanda Wilcox having turned pro with the Brady Campaign) and the questions allowed being pre-approved by the people there to keep a lid on the discussion...

I'd be surprised if the result is up to the standards of Kabuki political theater. I'd suspect it will be a facilitated meeting of the minds being brought to a predetermined result that will be proclaimed to be a compromise that everyone can live with.

[Bill Tozer]

1). Gregory, hear that. Today I was debating if I would even bother turning it on the radio. Answer: Nope. As Elizabeth Warren would say, “The Fix is in.” Ok, she would not say that in those exact words. She would say, “The game is rigged, you can’t win.” I will let others tell me what I did not miss. Sorry Doc, you are in your own. Not even going tune it in. Thumbs down on the whole shebang. Godspeed.

2) . Looks like Townhall For Our Lives was in Chico today waiting for LaMalfa...or should I say Doug la Mafia?

https://www.facebook.com/ElReyChicoCA/photos/gm.1001769376653144/917555965088768/?type=3
The #Enough National School Walkout (3/14) and March For Our Lives (3/24) events were only the beginning. Join us on Saturday, April 7th at noon to discuss gun violence and gun reform with Congressman Doug LaMalfa. If he does not show up, we will have a panel of his opponents, as well as experts on the issue, speaking. #NeverAgain

Want to help? Donate to our gofundme at: https://www.gofundme.com/town-hall-for-our-lives-chico?sharetype=teams&member=46606&rcid=r01-152273401066-3be20c52e2af4e32&pc=ot_co_campmgmt_m

[Gregory]

30,147 for banning AR-15's
2,401 agin it
93% to 7%.

The Union has had that "poll" up for what, 3 weeks?

Management really has taken sides. Manufacturing a consensus is hard work.

[Scenes]

re: Gregory@11:31PM

Oh shoot, I forgot to vote this morning. Thanks for reminding me.

I'm thinking this thing can hit 95% with a little work. Roughly a third of the county, man, women, children, their children's children, appear to have 'voted' thus far.

re: Gunapalooza

I love the smell of astroturf in the morning. Smells like.....victory.

[Scenes]

re: MrBillT@10:45

"Everything from gun violence on school campuses to gun violence against minorities to gun reform laws."

You know, someone with a taste for street theater and a whole lot more bravery than moi could seriously derail the meeting with a lot of talk about indigenous peoples and violence against minorities in Nevada County.

[Bill Tozer]

Scenes,
Perhaps I was a little hasty. . Dr. Rebane would be the de facto sole representative of the NRA, a uge target of hate in a sea of.....Marcia Clark hysteria. Etymology. So, the good Doc may need some moral support, albeit he can take the heat. When surrounded, shoot in any direction and you will hit a buttercup.

Street theater? Imagine if during the NRA blame fest that some kid or mischievous young adult tottling down Broad Street tossed a string of firecrackers towards the curb in from of City Hall. Oh my, that would be worse that yelling “Fire” in a crowded movie theather. Nah, the ensuing mayhem, sheer terror, chaos, and stampede would be unsafe at any speed. Just a silly passing thought. Maybe if one paid some kid thirty bucks to buzz by the rear entrance on his skateboard or bicycle and lob a string bomb in the rear entry’s direction, it would be fitting, for street theather.. Let the finger pointing begin. Nah, nobody would notice above the stank being raised inside. Lame idea.

Still give the whole confab a big thumbs down, waste of time. It is just a forum to vent and dig into the councilwoman’s query of who is ordering LE to go out in the hood and start shooting up black teenagers eating Skittles, the preferred candy for marijuana detox.

In fact, the topic of Townhall is already boring. Ain’t in a charitable mood. Fuck them.

[Bill Tozer]

Make that stink bomb...stink bomb. Never heard of a string bomb....must be like Silly String.

[Walt]

What will the gun grabbers use for an excuse now? There are new guns on the wall at the gun shops. 1000 yard rated! Yes, simple bolt action. Now how many seconds pass before the shot is heard?
There needs to be a law!,, Right? Who needs to shoot out to a 1000 yards? And a detachable box magazine no less!
It looks JUST LIKE and AR15! (Took out the gas operated parts and put in a bolt..)

[Bill Tozer]

Can’t escape guns I reckon.

1) “Who needs to shoot out to a 1000 yards”. Well, that’s why it is called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. To prevent government from even contemplating taking the citizens’ guns was exactly why the 2nd Amendment was written.

2).
A trio of state [SC] House Republicans on Thursday quietly introduced a bill that would allow lawmakers to debate seceding from the U.S. “if the federal government confiscates legally purchased firearms in this State.”

Other states have proposed secession-related measures. In 2013, several counties moved to secede from Colorado and form their own state, an unsuccessful movement was in part driven by new gun control laws passed by the Democratic legislature.

[Bill Tozer]

It’s Punchy’s dream come true that we listen to the child at the Townhall. Should be very heart felt and more satiating than a nice smooth consistent movement.. Don’t know about you, but when I was junior or senior in high school, if anyone called me or my classmates a child, it would be taken will great offense. That was a understatement. Anyway, coming to a Townhall near you. Crabbman loves this kind of stuff.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1030395423777346/?type=3&theater

Street theater? Maybe somebody should dress up as Sam or Elmer Fudd and give the place some comic relief. Nah, Lefties don’t laugh and are a glum unfun lot. Tough audience to try ice breakers on. Still, it may be worth a try.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1028457110637844/?type=3&theater

[Walt]

A Repub my ass!
http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/08/vermont-gun-control-laws-protest/

Kinda like here.
"WVNY reached out to Gov. Scott’s office and Gun Sense Vermont, a local group advocating for stricter gun control. Neither responded to their request for comment."

No need to comment. their work is done on the subject
Yet gun violence won't go down one bit.

[scenes]

re: BillT@8:53AM

Not allowed. Something viewed as a mere prank in 1970 is viewed as terrorism in 2018. Firecrackers would get most anyone a bit of an education in vibrant diversity at a California State Prison.

I have a funny feeling that any length of prison stay would change our local Green Libertarians political views, but that's a matter for another day. People who live in a protected environment will always have views based on their surroundings.

re: Skittles. I couldn't tell you if purple drank was the main point of a Skittle or two. On youtube, it's worth checking out charliebo313 for a view of reality, such as it is. If nothing else, I'd like to invest in companies that produce bullet-proof booths for convenience markets.

[Account Deleted]

George at 6:33 - Oh yes. Hence, the popcorn. Well - I'm not sure actual Kabuki theaters sell popcorn, but I'm sure they must have some kind of snacks available.
As you prepare for your part in the play, I would suggest you model the late Hunter S Thompson. If he couldn't have lived in Woody Creek, I'm sure Hunter would have felt at home somewhere in the woods in Nevada County.
You might even want to show this short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHeSC_Ws5Ic

[Don Bessee]

Then you have this in londinastan who has more murders than NY -

An epidemic of stabbings and acid attacks in London has gotten so bad that London mayor Sadiq Khan is announcing broad new "knife control" policies designed to keep these weapons of war out of the hands of Londoners looking to cause others harm.
The "tough, immediate" measures involve an incredible police crackdown, a ban on home deliveries of knives and acid, and expanding law enforcement stop-and-search powers so that police may stop anyone they believe to be a threat, or planning a knife or acid attack.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/29179/londons-mayor-declares-intense-new-knife-control-emily-zanotti

;-)

[George Rebane]

DonB 454pm - Your recent discovery of the London stabbings indicates that you may not have read my KVMR commentary.

[Don Bessee]

Have been well aware of the situation but found the jihadi cab driver mayors new tack interesting. ;-)

[Scenes]

I've been enjoying thinking about the paperwork and fuss when this sucker gets passed.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1663

So much for the Mini-14 carve out.

[Russ]

The Media’s Narrative Is Wrong, Again

As often happens after high-profile acts of violence committed with firearms, many prominent figures used the event to promote a narrative that blames the National Rifle Association and conservatives for another “mass shooting,” and that claims we need stricter gun control measures to prevent these incidents from occurring in the future.

However, nothing about the tragedy supports this narrative.

First, under most widely accepted definitions used by researchers, criminologists, and organizations on all sides of the political spectrum, this incident, while tragic, isn’t a “mass shooting.”

Although there is no one standard definition of the term, even the broadest definitions—such as the one used by the Harvard School of Public Health and the Mother Jones mass shooting database—typically necessitate that four or more individuals be shot, excluding the shooter.

In one sense, it doesn’t matter whether the incident technically qualifies as a mass shooting, especially for the three individuals who were wounded or for any other person affected by the active shooter situation.

But in another sense, it absolutely matters that the media has roundly manipulated the definition of a scary-sounding term in order to promote an agenda dedicated to violating the fundamental constitutional right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms.

Second, it takes an extraordinary amount of mental gymnastics to blame this act of violence on the NRA specifically, or on conservatives generally.

This woman was not a conservative. She was, in fact, extremely liberal—her YouTube videos promoted a vegan lifestyle and denounced capitalism, and she was a dedicated animal rights activist.

She was not a member of the NRA or any other Second Amendment advocacy group.

She lived in a state with one of the most restrictive gun control policies in the nation, which earned the highest rating possible from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence—in other words, a state where the NRA and conservatives are almost a non-factor from a legislative standpoint.

Third, California already imposes all of the restrictions that gun control activists typically demand. It has universal background checks, and all private firearm transfers must be conducted through a licensed dealer.

Residents wanting to purchase a firearm must first obtain a five-year Firearm Safety Certificate, which requires passing a written test administered by a state-certified instructor.

Firearms dealers can only sell handguns listed on the state’s Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale, and the vast majority of semi-automatic rifles are prohibited as “assault weapons” because they have magazines exceeding a 10-round capacity.

All firearms purchases require a 10-day waiting period, and there is de facto registration of all firearms.

Despite this, not only was the woman able to commit a “mass shooting” (in the words of the media), but California has not objectively benefited from restricting the Second Amendment rights of its citizens.

Since 2000, when California first began imposing more restrictive firearms legislation, the state has suffered through more mass public shootings—defined as four or more individuals shot in a public place, excluding the shooter and gang-related incidents—than any other state.

It had three times as many mass shootings as Texas, which is roughly equal in population but has an F rating from the Brady Campaign.

It also continues to have an almost identical violent crime rate to Texas, even though Texas has a 15 percent higher rate of individual gun ownership and its citizens can more easily access and carry those firearms.

The relative failure of California’s gun laws is hardly surprising given what we know about gun violence in the United States:

There is little statistical correlation between more restrictive gun control laws and violent crime rates. Some states with very permissive gun laws experience comparatively low levels of violent crime (like Virginia, Kentucky, Idaho, and Maine), while some states with very restrictive gun laws experience comparatively high levels of violent crime (like Maryland, Delaware, and California).

Most gun homicides—including mass shootings—are carried out with handguns, and rifles of any kind account for an extremely small percentage of annual firearm deaths. The YouTube shooter’s use of a 9 mm handgun was not an anomaly, but the norm.

The 10 percent of mass shooters who do use “assault weapons” typically do not fire at fast enough rates to cause more carnage than could otherwise have been caused with “non-assault weapons.” The Virginia Tech shooter killed more people with two handguns and extra magazines than the Aurora movie theater shooter killed with an “assault weapon” and a truly high-capacity 100-round drum magazine. The YouTube shooter brought and used at least one extra magazine, meaning the relatively small number of casualties was likely due to inaccuracy, not an inability to access more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

Very few mass shooters have criminal or mental health histories that disqualify them from legally purchasing firearms. Universal background checks and gun registration therefore have little preventative effect on mass shootings, and had absolutely no effect here—the woman legally purchased her handgun in January after passing every background check, completing a 10-day waiting period, and having her gun registered with the state.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/04/06/youtube-shooting-matters-not-reasons-media-thinks/

[Scenes]

"and all private firearm transfers must be conducted through a licensed dealer."

It's worse than that. As I understand the current law, any gunsmithing done on a 'registered assault weapon' (all those poor guys who were fooled into thinking that those ridiculous bullet buttons and lack of features would last as a rule set) has to be done by a specially licensed gunsmith. Sell it? No can do except to out-of-state or a specially licensed FFL dealer. Inherit it? No.

Unless I'm wrong, all the rather onerous Roberti-Roos rules now apply to another few million people. What the state is doing is making this stuff a pain to own and by waiting for a few decades, removes completely from the state.

Looking at that proposed law that I posted, my guess is that *all* centerfire semi-auto rifles will come under this umbrella in the near term (plus any particularly heinous .22s). Those with removable magazines will be the low hanging fruit.

That's what I found so amusing in the arguments with JonSmith. He/she obviously had no clue how strict California law is already.

Hey, it's tough building a single-party utopia. Sometimes you have to crack a few eggs.

[Gregory]

scenes 909pm

Unless I'm missing something, that bill died in committee nearly two years ago.

[scenes]

Gregory@8:31AM

Do you mean this one?

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms
Effective January 1, 2017, “Bullet Button” Firearms are Considered Assault Weapons

or the proposal to sweep up the 'featureless' rifles?

[scenes]

Gregory again.

Ah, I see that you put a time on it, so you were referring to the proposal.

My understanding is that the more general form of restriction is bouncing around. A quick look at the link I put up shows that it's a modification of current law, including the 30 inch rule, which I believe was a recent add-on.

[scenes]

as a side note, check out the new bill on gun parts.

[scenes]

here we go:

http://www.kcra.com/article/ca-lawmakers-promote-10-new-gun-control-bills/18737084

"One bill would expand California's assault weapon definition to include high-powered semi-automatic rifles without fixed magazines, though most .22 rifles would be excluded. The current definition requires the rifle to have things like a pistol grip or other military-style fixtures. An estimated half-million owners would have to register approximately two million guns with the state Department of Justice if the bill becomes law, although a similar attempt by Assemblyman David Chiu of San Francisco failed to advance in 2016."

[Walt]

AND from NY.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/09/de-blasio-criminal-justice-deputy-arrested-gun/
Do drivebys while working for the Mayor?

[Walt]

Just remove the word "gun" and add "knife".
“No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife. Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law,” Khan wrote on Twitter, sharing his new policies.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/04/09/london-mayor-sadiq-khan-enacts-knife-control-policies-to-crack-down-on-stabbing-epidemic

Paul?, "jon"? any other Lefty disciples? Just when will it end?
Those out to do harm, will.

[Bill Tozer]

Still waiting...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2118400574843174&set=a.110450362304882.18286.100000197575813&type=3&theater

[scenes]

re: Walt@9:56

You have to admire English knife laws.

http://shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ban-plastic-knives.jpg

In Arizona, there's basically no rules at all except for carrying a knife to school. I'll have to check the stabbing stats and compare them.

If you think about it, Arizona is a pretty good laboratory for law to compare to California. Similar demographics (minus Asians I suppose). Right next to each other.

[Bill Tozer]

London knives come falling down. As a comment says, “for an extra $15, the chef will cut it up for you.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1293926020741432/?type=3&theater

[George Rebane]

In the meanwhile, here our progressives stand in awe at how civilized the Brits are in their governance. If only we didn't have so many knuckle-draggers who have to have their guns taken away bit by piece.

[Bill Tozer]

re: Update’s update.

Ms. Patricia Smith from FARM: foothill artist resource and media, ROFLMAO. This is too rich. No offense to artists, but your opinions don’t matter. Ok, I should listen to JayZ going on and on about guns and white privilege, but not listen to his lynics about your ho bag mama spreads her legs for crack and glorifies violence and drugs and bling? Ok, Kate Perry, Madonna, Cher, or the one that jumps out her chair to applaud Romeo Pediphile Polanski, Meryl Streep. Maybe Zuti, the street musician has a provocative insight. Artists are great, but they use only the emotional side of their brains.
Won’t waste time with the local “media” media. Their news director is the proof in the pudding....an artist as well.

We already know exactly how Patty from FARM feels on the topic per her Union op-ed. And Dr. Rebane (Mr. NRA Outdated Constitution) is the cause of all the gun woes in America. They have only one solution in mind, the final solution. Wonder if they will prioritize the Townhall March for Life per their mindset by making all feel the welcoming love over individual rights and personalities. You think?

Spoiler alert: Have not seen one episode of Game of Thrones, but the ending to the first one reminds me of the Townhall and our Sandbox. Heard a main character with the sword tell the rival to confess to treason and his life will be spared. So, the captured confesses to treason and he was killed anyway.
Good luck, Dr. Rebane. Remember to interrupt and jump in anytime and every time someone talks about a gunman with those three magic words, “I prefer gunperson”. That will make them slow down and choose their words carefully..or not.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1294552710678763/?type=3&theater

[scenes]

re: BillT@10:01AM

Game of Thrones. Perfect fodder for modern minds. Lotsa Strong Women if nothing else.

There perhaps is one lesson there. The Right, which is still being redefined, is in a civil war and doesn't know it. Until it treats it's opponent as ruthlessly as it is being treated, it will lose. It may take some time, but it will lose.