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22 May 2018


Todd Juvinall

Looks like our local liberals are going nutty with envy. County unemployment down to 3.3% and they can't give Trump or Miller any credit. And they are all guilty of envy about me as well. And I am just a regular guy! LOL!


,,,todd,,,you are losing it,,,your post has nothing to do with students or Steele,,,

jon smith

What do every single one of those countries use without a second thought that most American's can't comprehend? The metric system. I believe this country's disdain for science and math was officialized when Reagan sneeringly dropped America from the international standard of measures. It was an official middle finger to the world of math and science.

Todd Juvinall

Americans don't like science because they don't like the metric system? What a dopey thing to say. Seems America with millions of patents and inventions and tech and the rest have led the world in science. You really are a dope MA, stay on your butt buddies blog would you please.

And M, you really are on the meth today. Stop it!


re: Jon Smith@1:57PM

lol. That sounds like 100% old man bitching.

I admit that if your exposure to numbers is going to the grocery store, buying gas, looking at your thermometer or speedometer, it pretty much looks like the US is all on some kind of imperial system.

Industrial fasteners in businesses that are highly conservative (aerospace, large industrial) have stuck to old school measurements, items like cars with shorter lifecycles are largely out of it. I expect you'll see Whitworth on some British industrial/aero products. You'll be hard pressed to find science papers done in imperial. Heck, it isn't even like the Japanese use the same Phillips head as the US.

tl;dr There's more to this than you might think (as usual), but it's always cool to drag Reagan into it.

The funny thing is that base 10 is a pretty arbitrary concept. Good luck on expressing those values accurately in a computer.

jon smith

Todd 2:30
"Americans don't like science because they don't like the metric system"

Only a dope would say that. Thanks for taking yet another one for team ignorant.

jon smith

I believe the only other country in the world that hasn't accepted the metric system is Burma. Maybe we can let down our Imperial ego long enough to see if maybe the rest of the world is on to something. Or maybe not.

Todd Juvinall

JonnieSmith, those were your words not mine. Stay off the meth you are an embarrassment even to tweakers.

Bill Tozer

“The U.S. scored at 470 in math, below the OECD average of 490.”

That says it all. Maybe we need to go to the metric system, but judging how our 15 year olds are doing in math, I would hate to add more stuff to their plate. They are struggling to keep their heads above water as it is.

I hate it when my fraction (American) sockets get jumbled up with my metric sockets. Takes forever to sort them out. No, we should ease slowly into the kilo system. Imperial gallons, troy ounces, furlongs, hectares, is enough as it is. What’z a knuckledragger to do?
Rule of thumb when driving the long roads in foreign lands. Take the kilometer per hour speed, divide in half, add 10% and you know the speed in mph. You don’t want to get stopped miles from nowhere in some places on this planet, I can assure you.

Guess no one has a viable solution to our public education abortion. Might be one of those things that more you look and uncover, the further you get from the original quest.


no one is forcing budding young scientists to use furlongs per fortnight squared for units of acceleration, "jon".

You've again focused on a trivial point in your blame America game... units of measurement? Really?

No.one is forcing you to use the Fahrenheit scale or to weigh yourself in pounds US.


re: Gregory@5:32PM

I take it he also hasn't worked on a late model US-built car.

It seems to me that going to metric means "put up new road signs, change the weather report, and don't sell food by the pound (which is still largely done in Canada)".

It's funny how the result is kind of a mess everywhere. There's a kind of 'fake' metric in use throughout the world where imperial measurements are used but with mm marks. 4x8 sheet material is something like 1220x2440, wheel diameters and tool drive sizes are imperial with metric markings, etc.

I've always assumed that aerospace is where the real wars break out.


aerospace? the world over, feet US is the standard for altitude assignments and reports, though the. metric.system standard measurements.for speed and distance are standard... not meters or m/sec, but nautical miles and knots

for temperature... Celsius or Kelvin? "Jon", I'm guessing you don't have a clue why C or K would make a difference over the Fahrenheit scale?

but rejoice! your electric bills are entirely metric


re: Gregory@7:26PM

I'm not referring to distance/height/speed but manufacture/service.


I'm wondering why jon isn't pushing for this.



It's probably worth mentioning to jon that most airplanes are SAE, not metric.

I believe that exceptions tend to be French in some cases (not surprisingly) and Russians in all cases. I always wondered how they dealt with that when the Tu-4 got 'designed'.

Account Deleted

"I believe this country's disdain for science and math was officialized when Reagan sneeringly dropped America from the international standard of measures. It was an official middle finger to the world of math and science."
Thanks for posting that jonnie boy. It helps to get a view into how your brain works.
Anyone in this country who has the slightest interest in STEM areas of study can easily understand and cope with any sort of unit of measurement there is. The pharmaceutical and medical industries and most all scientific research done in this country is metric. I have driven in Canada and Mexico and have no trouble at all dealing with speed limits, distances and buying petrol. My work shop has both metric and inch graduated measuring instruments and I can work the numbers back and forth with a pocket calculator with ease. Just remember 25.4! And yes - I have to keep separate my metric, Whitworth and SAE sockets and wrenches, but the average American would probably not have the tools in the first place. In most construction, inch and foot measuring is no issue as the construction trade is largely modular with most sheet goods being precut to size. Mandating a change to metric would cost this country untold billions for no good reason. Anything that needs to be metric will go that way on it's own. Euro teens actually have far more trouble learning to deal with non-decimal fractions than American teens learning metric.
I can remember the big push decades ago for everyone to learn Esperanto so we could all communicate easily and there would be world peace. What a joke.
It's supposed to be 81 here today. I realize that's not Celsius, but I believe I can withstand any 'distain' for science that might arise from using that number.


about 27C, nice enough!

As freshmen,we gotta kick out of conversions to furlongs and fortnights as a final step. Don't make no difference to the science... but tsk tsking about the metric system is virtue signaling for the frustrated europhiles amongst us.

Klaatu baratta nichto!


"but tsk tsking about the metric system is virtue signaling for the frustrated europhiles amongst us."

It's rather like blaming Reagan for all the crazy people on the streets, it's dishonest, but it feels good.

jon smith

I can only wonder how many people who work in the math and science world (when politics is removed) would think it an intelligent idea for America to adopt the metric system? I would think most.


Todd Juvinall

Are you nuts? Every single measuring device would have to be replaced as would the education of every person.

Bill Tozer

Why not have the rest of the planet get in line with American Exceptionalism and adopt our weights and measures? They need to up their game.Maybe that is why 700 million forgein folks would sell their right arm to come to America.


jon smith

Todd 2:12-
If Reagan hadn't disbanded our metric program (how many hundreds of millions did he spend removing just-posted metric highway signs???), by now even you might have been "educated".

"Every single measuring device would have to be replaced"
God you are stupid. And what would you replace a 10mm socket with?

jon smith

Todd (again)-
I just can't believe how stupid you are part II.

"Every single measuring device would have to be replaced"

Glancing at the shop walls and shelves, I see that I'd have to replace my metric calipers, metric tape measures, metric laser, metric strain gauge device, metric beaker set, metric erlenmeyer flasks . . . lots of shit I'd have to replace according to your logic. What an absolute dunce you are!!!

Bill Tozer

jon needs all that equipment for his meth lab?

jon smith

Close. Grapes and their constituent products.

Todd Juvinall

Oh jonnie/MA I am so much smarter than you can ever think to be. My goodness did you make it past fourth grade? You are one dumb troll.



Todd Juvinall

Good one scenes!

Account Deleted

"I can only wonder how many people who work in the math and science world (when politics is removed) would think it an intelligent idea for America to adopt the metric system? I would think most."
Not if they were personally stuck with the tab. Folks in science already use metric. But jonnie's no scientist, so how would he know?
Oh - I know - if it saves the life of one child it will be worth it.
Use the metric system all you want, jonnie. No one is stopping you.



Bill Tozer


This elitist control freak revealed his fundamental disdain for rabble-rousing parents who’ve taken educational matters in to their own hands. By characterizing the movement against Common Core as “white” and “suburban,” Duncan also exposed his bigotry against countless parents “of color,” like myself, who’ve long opposed Fed Ed’s sabotage of academic excellence, local control and student privacy in school districts across the country.

Note that newly minted parents’ rights advocate Arne Duncan never once advocated boycotting Chicago public schools, which he ran for eight years, for their abject failure to quell rampant school violence........

But what his slavering fans in the liberal media won’t tell you is that Duncan’s wife works at and his own children attend the exclusive, private University of Chicago Laboratory Schools in tony Hyde Park, which a Lab Schools brochure brags is “patrolled by the University of Chicago Police Department and private security.”

Armed, of course, for thine and thee, Arne. But not for we.


George Rebane

BillT 1055pm - good catch Mr Tozer. I wonder why our progressive commenters have not chimed in some of their outrage at this obviously outrageous piece of progressive hypocrisy. From a perusal of their comments, it seems that only those of the Right have sinned - the Left is squeaky clean. But then, it was ever thus.

Account Deleted

Another 'progressive' growth sector. Disabled students. They get extra time for exams. Gee - I wonder why so many are deciding they're disabled?
Wait til they hit the real world their mommies and the schools shielded them from.
Oh - that's right - that's what the govt is for! To keep shielding the little snow crystals from reality.
The Asian countries will eat us alive.

Bill Tozer

Close. Grapes and their constituent products.
Posted by: jon smith | 23 May 2018 at 03:03 PM


The Estonian Fox

Things are not all bad for U.S. education. I judged at the Int'l Science & Engineering Fair last week in Pittsburgh. Lots of smart kids there. More than 50% of entrants were from the U.S. For those interested, there are 2 websites for the prize-winning projects & winners' names. For the 'normal' ISEF award winners, see

The grand prize winner ($75K) was a boy from Australia, Oliver Nicholls, "Autonomous Window Cleaning Robot for Commercial High Rise Buildings". There were 2 different Second prize project winners ($50K each) - both were Indian-Americans. One was from Arkansas, the other from the state of Washington. Total of 400+ awards, lowest money prize was $500.

Then there were special awards, given by 53 different organizations (IEEE, Patent Office, NSA, Carnegie-Mellon...).
Of note - the IEEE Foundation (Electrical Engineering) awards 3 prizes at these ISEF fairs - their SECOND prize ($600) went to the same Oliver Nicholls, the overall grand prize winner. It seems not all judges have the same judging criteria. So Mr. Nicholls was not best-of-class among Electrical Engineering-related projects. He may have won other special awards as well.

George Rebane

EstonianF 701am - Härra (Dr?) Rebane, many thanks for that report on the performance of exceptional US STEM students and your support of those programs. The criticisms of US public education in these pages address the aggregate state of affairs, especially our country's in/ability to field an adequate workforce that can support/maintain our leadership position in the global acceleration of technology. Do you have any hopeful stats to share about that aspect of our educational status?

Bill Tozer

Education reform:


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