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30 August 2018


George Rebane

I'll start this comment stream myself by countering some of the liberals' blather about Democrats being the party of reason, logic, and science. One of their leading lights in Common Core math education is Dr Rochelle Guitierrez, whom I introduced to readers here -

This woman, prominent in America's academe, has done more harm to both math education and the (Marxist) politizing of our students' minds than anyone I have come across. Joy Pullman, executive editor of The Federalist, gives a comprehensive overview of the destruction Guitierrez is spewing across our educational landscape. This is a prime example of the direction Common Core and progressive 'science' has taken in STEM subjects after first being honed in the softer academic fields.

Todd Juvinall

Watched the comedy show called a democrat debate for New York Governor on CSPAN. If anyone thinks a democrat has a brain I suggest watching that fiasco. It does one important thing though. It will drive right thinking democrats, the few that are left, to the R's. And I think Cuomo and Nixon for the back and forth. They sound and act like little kids. Poor New York, they are almost as f'd up as California.

Todd Juvinall

Crabb is just an idiot so who cares what he says. McCain was a man who I had a lot of respect for yet his politics was off and on for me. Now watching the services and the eulogies from many different people I can see he was respected by many. However, it appears he was also petulant. He did not invite Sarah Palin to his service. That is so petty. And to those complaining about the ha;f-staff, they are just petty as well. The policy for that was followed. Anyway, don't worry about the stupid musing of Crabb as he lost his mind in the 60's.

Todd Juvinall

John McCain did nt ask Sarah Palin to his service. The Great Divide was started by the democrats and their mouthpieces of the lamestream media when they relentlessly attacked Palin. I lost all respect for the woman's movement when they piled on against her as well. The left hates any conservative and it is almost an insanity move. Now we see a Gillum character from Tallahassee as the opponent of DeSantis in Florida. This guy is a loon and far left. No middle grounfd there.


Upon further review, I do believe this fits here.
(moved from sandbox)
Guess where I will start stopping to grab a good burger?

You LIBS are some real pieces of work these days. How DARE a food franchise give to Repubs!? Capitalists giving to those who actually help capitalism. OH.. And Christian!!
So Give'm the Chick fil a treatment!!!(And just how did that work out for ya'?)


The Democrats think they are the party of science, and, in fact, an overwhelming number of professional scientists do typically vote for Democratic. However when challenged to explain anthropogenic climate change science, they change the subject. Here is some samples of liberal/progressive quotes on climate science:

Quote by Paul Watson, a founder of Greenpeace: "It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”

Quote by Jim Sibbison, environmental journalist, former public relations official for the Environmental Protection Agency: "We routinely wrote scare stories...Our press reports were more or less true...We were out to whip the public into a frenzy about the environment.”

Quote by emeritus professor Daniel Botkin: "The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe."

Quote by Robert Stavins, the head of Harvard’s Environmental Economics program: "It’s unlikely that the U.S. is going to take serious action on climate change until there are observable, dramatic events, almost catastrophic in nature, that drive public opinion and drive the political process in that direction.”

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, and large CO2 producer: "I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis.”

Quote by Stephen Schneider, Stanford Univ., environmentalist: "That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have.”

Quote from Monika Kopacz, atmospheric scientist: "It is no secret that a lot of climate-change research is subject to opinion, that climate models sometimes disagree even on the signs of the future changes (e.g. drier vs. wetter future climate). The problem is, only sensational exaggeration makes the kind of story that will get politicians’ — and readers’ — attention. So, yes, climate scientists might exaggerate, but in today’s world, this is the only way to assure any political action and thus more federal financing to reduce the scientific uncertainty.”

Quote from the UN's Own "Agenda 21": "Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level.”

Quote by Naomi Klein, anti-capitalism, pro-hysteria advocate of global warming: "So the need for another economic model is urgent, and if the climate justice movement can show that responding to climate change is the best chance for a more just economic system…"

Quote by Christiana Figueres, leader of the U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change: “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history.”

Quote by Peter Berle, President of the National Audubon Society: "We reject the idea of private property."

Quote by Jack Trevors, Editor-in-Chief of Water, Air, & Soil Pollution: "The capitalistic systems of economy follow the one principal rule: the rule of profit making. All else must bow down to this rule…The current USA is an example of a failed capitalistic state in which essential long-term goals such as prevention of climate change and limitation of human population growth are subjugated to the short-term profit motive and the principle of economic growth."

Quote by Judi Bari, an American environmentalist and labor leader, a feminist, and the principal organizer of Earth First!: "I think if we don't overthrow capitalism, we don't have a chance of saving the world ecologically,”

Quote by Naomi Klein, anti-capitalism, pro-hysteria advocate of global warming: “It is the fight for a new economy, a new energy system, a new democracy, a new relationship to the planet and to each other, for land, water, and food sovereignty, for Indigenous rights, for human rights and dignity for all people. When climate justice wins we win the world that we want.

rl crabb

Par for the course, you one-eye blinders never notice the instances when I actually agreed with you. If one doesn't drink ALL the kool-aid, one are still be the enemy. And Todd, anyone who says he remembers the sixties, wasn't there. Can't say the same for this albatross you voted for in the nineties. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/END-OF-THE-RAINBOW-A-San-Francisco-financier-2959646.php


UN Agenda 2030: A Recipe for Global Socialism

The United Nations and its mostly autocratic member regimes have big plans for your life, your children, your country, and your world. And those plans are not limited to the coercive “climate” agreement recently concluded in Paris.

[. . .]

The Agenda

Perhaps the single most striking feature of Agenda 2030 is the practically undisguised roadmap to global socialism and corporatism/fascism, as countless analysts have pointed out. To begin with, consider the agenda’s Goal 10, which calls on the UN, national governments, and every person on Earth to “reduce inequality within and among countries.” To do that, the agreement continues, will “only be possible if wealth is shared and income inequality is addressed.”

As the UN document also makes clear, national socialism to “combat inequality” domestically is not enough — international socialism is needed to battle inequality even “among” countries. “By 2030, ensure that all men and women, in particular the poor and the vulnerable, have equal rights to economic resources,” the document demands. In simpler terms, Western taxpayers should prepare to be fleeced so that their wealth can be redistributed internationally as their own economies are cut down to size by Big Government. Of course, as has been the case for generations, most of the wealth extracted from the productive sector will be redistributed to the UN and Third World regimes — not the victims of those regimes, impoverished largely through domestic socialist/totalitarian policies imposed by the same corrupt regimes to be propped up with more Western aid under Agenda 2030.

Wealth redistribution alone, however, will not be enough. Governments must also seize control of the means of production — either directly or through fascist-style mandates. “We commit to making fundamental changes in the way that our societies produce and consume goods and services,” the document states. It also says that “governments, international organizations, the business sector and other non-state actors and individuals must contribute to changing unsustainable consumption and production patterns … to move towards more sustainable patterns of consumption and production.”

In plain English, the Agenda 2030 document is claiming that today’s “consumption and production” patterns are unsustainable, so we’ll need to get by with less. How much less? It would be hard to find a more clear and concise assessment than that offered by the late Maurice Strong, the recently deceased Canadian billionaire and longtime UN environmental guru who led the 1992 Earth Summit, in a pre-Earth Summit document: “It is clear that current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle-class … involving high meat intake, consumption of large amounts of frozen and ‘convenience’ foods, ownership of motor vehicles, numerous electrical appliances, home and workplace air-conditioning ... expensive suburban housing … are not sustainable.”

In truth, such “lifestyles and consumption patterns” are sustainable, so long as the freedom that makes prosperity possible is not destroyed in the name of achieving “sustainability.” The UN and the environmental lobby claim that we must get by with less because there are now too many people on the planet consuming too many resources. But this rationale for accepting UN-imposed scarcity is patently false.

Of course, the promoters of Agenda 2030 would claim that rather than impoverish us, the global regime they envision would take good care of us — through universal health coverage, for instance. One of the targets for Goal 3, ensuring “healthy lives” and “well-being,” is: “Achieve universal health coverage,” including “vaccines for all.” Universal access to “mental health,” along with “sexual and reproductive health-care services” — code words for abortion and contraception — are also included. All governments are expected to integrate such services into their “national strategies and programmes,” the agreement demands.

It is worth noting that mass-murdering Soviet dictator Vladimir Lenin made clear that controlled healthcare is the “keystone” of socialism. The United Nations obviously agrees. And though he may not call it “socialism,” Obama undoubtedly also views government control of healthcare as key. Indeed, enactment of ObamaCare could be viewed as a “great leap forward” by the United States toward implementation of a key component of Agenda 2030, before Agenda 2030 was even “approved.”

But as important as targeting healthcare is to the globalist schemers, any plan for building international socialism would be lacking without also targeting the next generation with global-socialist propaganda. And so an entire goal of Agenda 2030 is devoted to ensuring that all children, everywhere, are transformed into what the UN calls “agents of change,” ready to push forward the plan for the new global order. “Children and young women and men are critical agents of change and will find in the new Goals a platform to channel their infinite capacities for activism into the creation of a better world,” the agreement explains.

The sort of activists that the UN hopes to make your children into is also explicitly defined in the agreement. “By 2030, ensure that all learners acquire the knowledge and skills needed to promote sustainable development, including, among others, through education for sustainable development and sustainable lifestyles, human rights, gender equality, promotion of a culture of peace and non-violence, global citizenship and appreciation of cultural diversity and of culture’s contribution to sustainable development,” the global plan for 2030 states. Considering what the UN means by “sustainable development” — population control, central planning, global governance, and more — the agenda for your children takes on an even more sinister tone.

“Sustainable” children for global citizenship in the new order will be accomplished via what the UN misleadingly refers to as “education.” In the UN document the word “education” alone is mentioned more than 20 times. And throughout the agreement, the UN openly advocates the use of schools to indoctrinate all of humanity into a new set of values, attitudes, and beliefs in preparation for the new “green” and “sustainable” world order. The UN’s education agenda also puts sex “education” front and center. “By 2030, ensure universal access to sexual and reproductive health-care services [abortion and contraception], including for family planning, information and education,” the document explains.

How much will Agenda 2030 cost? Various figures have been thrown around by UN bureaucrats regarding the monetary costs of the plan, generally ranging between $3 trillion and $5 trillion per year.

Yes, trillions. In the “From Billions to Trillions” report released by the World Bank in July 2015, the globalist outfit, a key player in Agenda 2030, conceded: “To meet the investment needs of the Sustainable Development Goals, the global community needs to move the discussion from ‘Billions’ in ODA [Official Development Assistance] to ‘Trillions’ in investments of all kinds: public and private, national and global, in both capital and capacity.”

But the money needed to implement Agenda 2030 and other UN schemes is only part of the cost. Other parts include the loss of our national independence and freedom that the rise of global governance and global socialism would surely entail. Revealingly, empowering dictators to help in global governance is openly touted by Agenda 2030. The document states, “We recommit to broadening and strengthening the voice and participation of developing countries [the regimes ruling those countries] — including African countries, least developed countries, land-locked developing countries, small-island developing States and middle-income countries — in international economic decision-making, norm-setting and global economic governance.


This is the Democrats global socialism plan for you, are you ready?

Account Deleted

from Crabby - "Par for the course, you one-eye blinders never notice the instances when I actually agreed with you."
But we notice you haven't been able to produce one single example of that.
"If one doesn't drink ALL the kool-aid, one are still be the enemy."
Not true at all. The problem with the left is their constant need to try to shut down or stifle opposing opinions. Anyone who trucks with that crowd IS the enemy.
Classic example - Dr Rebane vs The FUE. Which blog is open to ALL ideas, and which one shuts down anything that doesn't toe the party line?
Also - is it the left or the right that has repeatedly rioted and tried to shut down debates and speeches on campi? It's never the conservatives - always the left.


rl: " If one doesn't drink ALL the kool-aid, one are still be the enemy."

As a great philosopher said, "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do".

I can't say that I view our local Hard Left folks as enemies. It seems to me that it takes both intent (which they've got) and power (which they don't have) to be considered that. The truth is that the Great State of California is going to be both crazy and wasteful no matter what our People of Outrage type on a keyboard.

Tricky McClean

This is so weird. Like a magical place, only full of bats. Rafters?

Todd Juvinall

Scenes all good points. My blog is open as well Rebane's. But look who isn't. Crabb, Pelline, Frisch and others. I am on Twitter and when I make a point I am attacked by these lefty shrills and they use profanity. Crabb may have a "the broken clock is right twice a day" gut his bent is left and he is a shrill as well. He doesn't remember the 60's as he has said, but I do. Why? I did not do drugs, worked after school at Martin's Market on Race Street and did not drink or smoke. I was a square but I remember all the wonderful days of those years. Crabb is a hypocrite about "free speech" just like the other liberals are and we call them on it. And they just get all upset. Mommy mommy, those wascally Republicans caught me again. Wah wah wah!

 Bill Tozer

Re: Crabbman
Time to call them as I see ‘em. We have more in common with Crabbman than his commentators. It’s his commentators on his blog that are the issue here, not The Crabbman per se. Open your mind and read what Crabbman replied to Stevie Isn’t It Any Wonder:

“I’ve always said that I trust the government as far as I can throw it, be it liberal or conservative. The conservatives will always want to remove the social safety net to fund their obsession with the military. The liberals want to expand the social safety net to such a degree that everyone would be a dependent in one way or another.
I have to smile when I see the press tout “Jerry Brown’s California miracle.” Yes, he has somewhat restrained the excesses of the legislature and created a rainy day fund, but how could you fail when your tax base includes the richest companies on the face of the earth?
When I look at Sacramento’s wish list, it becomes obvious that even with the rich tax base the average citizen is going to take it in the wallet to maintain the status quo.
Look, you want single payer healthcare, affordable housing, housing the homeless, more mental health facilities, free college, bailouts for the utilities, climate change subsidies and a massive program to save the forests from wildfire. At some point, even rich liberals will start to choke.
And as much as I dislike the current ICE crackdown, I sometimes wonder if the current sanctuary trend has gone too far in the other direction. When some municipalities are ready to give non-citizens the right to vote, what is the point of trying to become a citizen?
You are correct to say that most Democratic candidates have been moderates, but it looks like the trend is moving toward the left. Now that the role of the super delegates has been diminished, it will be interesting to see how the socialists fare in 2020.
So yeah, I will continue to cast a skeptical eye on both sides. I just can’t help myself.
RL CRABB says:
August 28, 2018 at 6:41 am
Oh yeah…I forgot to mention the escalating psychosis of political correctness on the left. I’ve always advocated free speech, no matter what gibberish you wish to regurgitate as long as it doesn’t advocate violence toward any group or individual. (Maxine Waters, take note.)”

Now, when Agenda 2020 came down the pike, I wasn’t in to it in the least. Tuned it out, so I ain’t butt sore about those days like some here are. . I was either still being the town drunk, sobering up, living in my car with two infants, raising the girls alone and refusing help, went from the Penthouse to the outhouse and crawling out of the bottomless pit and rebuilding something out of nothing. Forget exactly what I was doing.
In short, whatever bad juju happened then, I remain blissfully ignorant and Todd went to the same high school as Crabbman at the same time, Steve is carrying the grudges of what somebody called his wife back then and everybody has a bad taste in their mouths about those days. Not me. Couldn’t see beyond the nose at the end of my face back then. And I am sure Crabbman has had his moments of being cranky since and has been an equal opportunity offender, albeit it it does appear at times that he is more of an unequal opportunity offender. Be that as it may, his gut and mind is telling him the Leftinistas are headed in the wrong direction.

The starting point of Crabb’s response to Steve above is my starting point. “The duty of every Patriot is to defend his country from his government.” Whether it was Locke or Jefferson or Teddy Roosevelt who said it. I don’t give a gnat’s ass.
Then ending point of Crabbman’s response is my ending point of whether we are today. We have a Democrat Party that is being yanked hard to the left, a place where many fair minded old Dems do not wish to go. But, they have little to no choice. And I am more than eager to paint all Democrats like Boardman with the broad brush of Antifa, Stalin, The Conquering Airhead Cortex, Mad Max, La Raz, BLM, eco-terrorists, femi-Nazis, segerated dorms, and making it a crime to offer someone a straw in California while decriminalizing having the full pre- knowledge in advance that you are giving someone HIV, a death sentence for many. And a ugly slow painful death at that.

I am a willing participant in painting all Dems as believing there are 37 genders, pedos should be allowed in little girl’s restrooms, the Founding Father’s are all White Priviledged racist males whose lives and memories should be removed from the annuals of history as well as their words and beliefs and documents....thus opening up the door (as planned) to rid this country’s government of the constraints of the US Constitution.

Now, why would I do such a thing? Because the media, the liberals, the Leftinistas, the socialists, the elitists, the flag burning America hating crowd despised me before I even knew who they were. That’s why.

And where are are these middle of the road Dems to go? Where is their safe place? Nowhere. They are being taken to a place their inner selves tell them inherently and intuitively don’t smell right. They have lost their choice in the matter. They are losing control of the engine and as trapped in the passenger cars. They are on a slow moving train wreck, but are strapped to their seats and can’t get out. Their only option is to go to the side they have despised, ridiculed, considered lower on the evolution ladder than they.

Some have jumped off the Lefty Train wreck and escaped with their lives. To breathe air as a free men is what the movie 300 was all, what the Revolutionary War was all about. Diamonds and Silk never voted for anyone but Democrats their entire lives....until 2016. Most Dems won’t. The Lefties are going straight after ripping up the Constitution while 60 million Americans are standing on the hill worth defending, saying “this ground is our last stand.”

Let me tell you a little secret. While the Left focus all their hate on Trump and his supporters, the government is so much more than Trump. It’s out of control and has morphed into something uncontrollable for years. It is becoming the enemy of the people in so many ways.

Another secret. My Native American tribe sided with the Greycoats in the Civil War. No, they did not fight along side with Johnnie Reb against the Bluecoats. We just hated the Great White Father in Washington for lying, breaking their word, sticking us on land nobody wanted that was neither fertile or had game to hunt. Everything Washington said was a lie. The enemy of Washington (the Confederacy) was our friend in heart. And another secret. We believed the white man was not a human being.
When the Lakota and Dakota were rounded up and the food storage was locked and was late in delivering supplies as we were starving to death..... while trusting the the word of the people in Washington, the stores and trading posts refused to extend us credit until the government food supplies arrived. One trader said to the Injuns, “If they are hungry, let them eat grass.” That trader was later found with grass stuffed down his throat, among the bodies of found of others who felt the same. Come to find out, the reason the funds and food from Washington did not come after the harsh winter was because those funds got diverted to remodel the Lincoln Bedroom by Mrs. Lincoln. Hundreds starved to death because we took them at their word. They forced us to dependant on them. That’s Washington, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Never again.

This is for Crabbman. Turn the page from old history. Get pass your Grandpapy. A dear old friend called me last year. Here grandson was visiting her for a few days during a break in college. He was going to Seattle College or some place on the coast. No, not Evergreen College or U of Wa (Huskies). Anyway, Granny looked at her grandson’s text books. As an avid reader, she was reading a second year Psychology test. She came across a paragraph that got her so upset that she had to call and read it to me. The text was laying out briefly different belief systems and touched on political belief systems.....Left, Democrat, Independents, and Republicans. The Republican paragraph was short and sweet. It said that Republicans are sub humans and their beliefs are invalid. Then the text moved on to other belief systems. I made her read that two or three sentences again and then again. Let that sink in. Every student taking Pyscology at that college/university has to read that and take it as the gospel truth. That is where the Dem Party is going. That is where the Dems are at. That is where the true fascists are. I know in my heart that is not where you want your fight against injustice and Big Brother to go. But that is where it is headed and that is where it’s at. My old friend will never vote Democrat again.

The duty of every Patriot is to defend his country from his government. It ain’t about Trump. I will end this essay with your ending words to Steve.

“Oh yeah…I forgot to mention the escalating psychosis of political correctness on the left. I’ve always advocated free speech, no matter what gibberish you wish to regurgitate as long as it doesn’t advocate violence toward any group or individual. (Maxine Waters, take note.)”


Posted by: Tricky McClean | 30 August 2018 at 07:40 PM

Nice.....and almost in Haiku form! What .....no wallboard!?


So ......at what time did Emery officially pop his main spring?

Must have been the Mimes!

Don Bessee

Ah yes the good ol' revisionist history -



Steve Frisch

Yep, there it is the revolution. Wow what a shame it would be if these things happened.



Sure thing Stevey, And the shit from the Unicorn ranch is tasty and could feed the world for free.

Don Bessee

Excellent, that worked so well for madam liar liar pantsuits on fire, you know like LaBron and Byonce in PA!



Tricky McClean


Don Bessee

That's so cute, as if anyone would trust a troll link!

Conventional wisdom says china will win a trade war, really?

Not all tech stars are equal. While U.S. giants from Apple Inc. to Amazon.com Inc. march to or through the $1 trillion valuation mark, China’s darlings are getting dumped.

The groups started to diverge two months ago, and the big American tech stocks have outperformed their Chinese counterparts by 19 percentage points since then.




Tricky McClean sounds like a brand spanking new Doug Keachie sock puppet

steve frisch

Here is what you guys are so afraid of and against as “goals,” that you call a communist world conspiracy designed to take something away from you, that you think is the end of the world as we know it, ushering in the last great century of man, that is the terrible thing bringing on the end of civilization as we know it….

No poverty.
Zero hunger.
Good health and well-being.
Quality education.
Gender equality.
Clean water and sanitation.
Decent work and economic growth.
Reduced inequalities.
Sustainable cities and communities.
Climate action.
Peace, justice and strong institutions.
Partnerships for the goals.

So let me ask if you are against these as goals are you for keeping people in poverty, starving them, making them sick, keeping them ignorant, women being in the kitchen and bedroom, wallowing in crap, bad jobs, oligarchy, a dead planet, and war?

I never seen a bigger bunch of frightened old men than those accumulated here…these are goals guys…the future ain’t going to kill you, time is.

Account Deleted

Thank you, Steven Frisch. You have perfectly laid out the great divide and the most obvious defect of the left. All in one simple post.
You repeat the lie that 'we' (conservatives) are against those goals.
That is absolutely false.
We are against the left's solutions for those goals.
You lefties seem to have some sort of mental defect that blocks this simple understanding.
The left's solutions for these goals have proven over and over in history to not only not solve the problems, but actually lead in most cases to mass slaughter and suffering.
We are not frightened by the left, nor are we frightened by the future. We are simply saddened at the coming disaster that is unfolding before our eyes. The freedoms and liberty that were bought at such a great cost in treasure and blood are now being pissed away by ignorant, bigoted, hated-filled fools like you that consider themselves quite superior as you slice off your own nose to spite your face.
I would suggest that instead of throwing around bullet points like the list above, you get to work actually defining most of those terms in full detail.
If you actually start thinking about and explaining terms like 'reduced inequality' you will quickly come to realize how nebulous and imprecise your thinking is.

 Bill Tozer

Well Steve, please explain how we can obtain gender equality. I need to get several mathematicians and some great software to figure out a program how to get all 37 genders equal. Where is Einstein when we need hm.p?

I agree we need quality education. Inner city kids and other places) in the 8th grade have a 4th grade reading and comprension level, high school grads have an 8th grade reading and comprehension level. Since 1970, the quality of education has declined in direct proportion to the increase in money spent on education using inflation adjusted dollars. Classroom size (pupils per classroom) during the same period has decreased in direct proportion to the declining quality of education. My junior high (middle school) biology course is now equivilent to a junior/senior high school biology course. Solve that one and you will get a gold star for the week. The former Nevada County Sup of Schools is now advocating no acedemics to be taught to HS seniors past November of their final school year. Call that proposal “quality education”? I don’t.

As far as reduced inequalities, are you talking about equality of opportunity before the law or equality of outcome? If outcome, then are you willing to take the wage of your lowest paid employee or a client’s lowest paid employee or even the wage of a vendor’s lowest paid employee. Not me.


"The left's solutions for these goals have proven over and over in history to not only not solve the problems, but actually lead in most cases to mass slaughter and suffering."

At least mass slaughter and suffering isn't always the result.

One modern model is to start up some kind of NGO, pay yourself well, and go to conferences at resorts for speechifying and the exchange of reports. It's an edifice built on OPM, but the amount of do-gooding can largely be limited to nice dinners and a well-funded 401(k).

Of course, when they get loose in the wild, the Laws of Unintended Consequences take over. It'll be different this time, of course.

SFrisch: "the future ain’t going to kill you, time is."

I think there's a certain amount of truth there. Just look around you and marvel at all the broken marriages, harridans with signs, general craziness built atop your Trumphate. How has your personal life changed at all in the last couple of years? I suppose ICE might have stopped by a restaurant in Truckee or something, but that was the inevitable result of simply not enforcing the rules for a decade or two. When the Rule of Law nudged even slightly from slumber there was bound to be some confusion.

steve frisch

"The coming disaster that is unfolding before our eyes." I love that.

If you look at my question Scott I did not say that you are "against" these things, as shown in my preface, "so let me ask..."

Yes, the answer lies in the solutions...and the proof of the fault in George's and Russ's thinking is shown in their rejection of asking the question itself.

Reasonable people can disagree about the solutions, can posit alternative solutions, can work to test theories, can find solutions that meet the ends of a both. That is what real people do.

But instead, the veiled reference to the idea that the solutions posited by the left are "mass slaughter and suffering." In the history of the world there has been a long history of mass slaughter and suffering, most of it in the guise of one ideology or another, but in reality, advanced by men seeking power, flawed humans, embracing ideologies likes cloaks to mask their body politic.

I define the terms posited in the bullet points every day and I could find common ground on many of them with most of you, but you are too blinded by hate and ideology, like the men seeking cloaks to cover the nakedness of their ideas described above.

I read these pages and I see the posters here for what they are: small minded men frightened by the shadow of the future and the knowledge that their ideas will not prevail, that the power they have had due to their gender, race, and position in society is threatened by the new, the young, the next. You are one an all like frightened children huddling in the corner with your grievance, rather than in the arena positing solutions.

But I will tack a crack at a few of the bullet points above and shock you with the answers, not that you or readers here would pause to consider the commonality.

No poverty: expand ethical capitalism and democracy
Zero hunger: expand ethical capitalism and democracy
Good health and well-being: invest the proceeds in people
Quality education: invest the proceeds in people
Gender equality: give women equal rights
Clean water and sanitation: stop pouring shit into our water
Decent work and economic growth: expand ethical capitalism and democracy
Reduced inequalities: share the proceeds more equitably
Sustainable cities and communities: recognize that resources have limits
Climate action: stop pouring shit into our air
Peace, justice and strong institutions: cooperation instead of war
Partnerships for the goals: leave you fools in the dustbin.

I could go into more detail on each one, but alas, I am out in the arena today doing actual work to try to make some of this happen. Enjoy sitting on the porch.


I could go into more detail on each one, but alas, I am out in the arena today doing actual work to try to make some of this happen. Enjoy sitting on the porch.

Ah......putting together another Van Jones meet and greet then......

Steve Frisch

Ah yes, Scenes, the direct attacks on my profession have to take center stage, because of course you can't make the case any other way, weak little guy that you are.

The evils of managing an NGO...I suggest you take your aversion to NGO's to your local church or chamber of commerce, the Heritage Foundation or Reason, the Tea Party or you local Humane Society. My NGO bad; your do-gooding, good. What a narrow perspective on the world.

 Bill Tozer

-Peace, justice and strong institutions: cooperation instead of war.

Well, that was Trump’s plan with Russia heading into the election, but the pushback was too much. Now that the war monger interventionalist McCain had kicked the bucket, we might find a way to get out of some of these wars in the Middle East.

-Clean water and sanitation: stop pouring shit into our water

I am all in on that one. Heard the US Forest Service Investigate and Enforcement Chief give a talk just yesterday. Oh, those scumbags are turning our woods and watersheds into Superfund Sites, literally.


Account Deleted

"If you look at my question Scott I did not say that you are "against" these things, as shown in my preface, "so let me ask...""
Actually - "Here is what you guys are so afraid of and against as “goals,”..."
So it sure looked liked it to me.
"I define the terms posited in the bullet points every day and I could find common ground on many of them with most of you, but you are too blinded by hate and ideology, like the men seeking cloaks to cover the nakedness of their ideas described above."
In other words - we could find common ground if we would just agree with you.
Your expansion of your 'goals' is just more left wing nonsense.
For example: "No poverty: expand ethical capitalism and democracy"
I'm all for 'ethical' capitalism - stop handing out money to favored companies such as giving Govt Motors 54 billion dollars. And stop propping up 'green' companies like Solyndra. As far as more democracy getting rid of poverty - good luck with that. People rise out of poverty by becoming productive members of society and handling their money responsibly. If you think mob rule resulting in wealth redistribution will help end poverty, I would love to see a long term peaceful or successful example of that.
Saying that there are other causes historically for bloodshed and violence is not a logical argument against the fact that the left's actual proposed solutions to our problems have been shown to be a major cause of horrible mass slaughter and suffering.
And Steve - I don't sit on the porch. I work my can off every day. You couldn't keep up with me.


re: BillT@8:24AM

As a betting man, the McCain/Hillary War Party is probably the place to put your bet. There's just too much money and status involved.

The tricky thing is finding any news on these matters. With the devolution of CNN and their brethren to All-Trump-All-The-Time, the tweet of the day takes precedence over foreign affairs.

Of course, it's confusing anyway. Check the dates (hint: they're the same).

"Afghan army makes significant gains against Taliban in Ghazni"

"The Taliban has made huge gains in the southeastern city of Ghazni, about 150km from the capital, Kabul."

Todd Juvinall

I tweeted Eric Bauman today. He is the Cal DNC Chair who wanted to boycott Inn-N-Out Burger for giving money to the State GOP. What he did was totally goofy though as they also have donated to a PAC for moderate Democrats. These leftwingers always seem to forget that business hires many people and pays a lot of taxes. Tweet this idiot too and let him know what a fool he is.


Todd Juvinall

Steve Frisch | 31 August 2018 at 08:11 AM

When you succeed in a NGO it is a lot different than in a private business. You flopped at private. Liens to all levels of government, your diversion of your employee's tax money and the BK and closure of your restaurant will follow you for the rest of your life. That is why we take issue that you think you hold some sort of high ground about things. We on the right care about all the same things but have different solutions. You liberals try and turn us all into evil people when we disagree. We then must point out your hypocrisy so the readers understand you hold no high ground at all.


Well? Where is that "bombshell"?
No wonder Proggy news is fake news.

Todd Juvinall

More socialist drivel from that Berkheimer fellow in the Union. And it is all our fault. You conniving, uncaring worker slobs.

More leftwing drivel. We all care for our children and grands. That is not some conservative cabal that does that. But it is the policies you forced down the throats of Americans that have forced all this debt and harm to America. All we on the right want is for you to leave us alone. We pay our taxes and still you whine and complain you need more. But you never reform yourselves to stop the waste and abuse and the fraud. Just a deep dark whole you send our confiscated dollars into. We now see that getting the regulators off of our backs means success and jobs for more Americans. The left and democrats forced mom into the workplace and she earns enough to pay the tax burdens you foisted on us. As fae as the military. If we had not kept it strong then you might be speaking German or Chinese. We know you are a socialist and you want more and more until you get it all. Americans are the greates "givers" on the planet and yet no credit from you takers. And the college debt is a true liberal travesty that can be fixed. But you will not do that.

Don Bessee

Thank the Lord -



Paul Emery

Amazing that Todd Juvinall, the failed developer whose political ambitions were squashed the first time he tied to go out of town would cast stones on any else s business practices. The Sierra Lizzard is a relic of times gone by and is having a tough time adjusting with Nevada County going Blue.

George Rebane

PaulE 653pm - Are you related to TrickyM? Give us your thoughts about the direction of the Democratic Party about which you have been totally silent here.

Tricky McClean

Sorry GR, dun and dun.

Todd Juvinall

Uhn oh, Paul Emery is circling that barn again about me. I must have got under his skin about being greek white nationalist? Sorry Emery, it doesn't bother me so find something new. Didn't you tell us you joined the reserves to avoid Vietna? John McCain probably forgave you.

Paul Emery

Thanks for the question George. this is a bit rambling but I'll give it a go.

I'm not optimistic George as long as they have the current leadership. They will likely take the House in Nov which is good. The only thing worse than two bad parties is when one controls everything. I'm hoping for some deadlock. They dodged a bullet when Trump got elected instead of someone more competent and respectable. After the Dems win the House, which they likely but not for sure will, they will drive Trump crazy, literally, and I hope he doesn't do drastic harm Narcissists flip out when they are challenged so anything could happen. The Pubs will likely retain the Senate because the Dems have much more at risk so we'll have a divided government which I love.

The Dems are much older than the Republicans which is another problem because they don't know when to quit. Finestein will be 90 when she finishes and who knows about the rest.

When Trump stumbles, which he will, the vultures will move in with
Ryan coming off the bench likely to run in 2000. That's when the Dems will really be in trouble. They may win the house but the rest will be much harder.

You have been focusing on the hard left which has a few pinups but the Dems have difficulty having a unified message other than opposing Trump which is their real problem. The economy is strong right now but it might be too hot and can't keep growing at the current pace so the economy may be in play in 2020.

Not much hope for Greens or Libertarians. Bad situation with two corrupt Parties controlled by special interests.

I'm hoping the Dems will win the House. Gridlock is our best hope.

Paul Emery

Here you go again Todd, What did you do Todd during the Viet Nam War. Being such a patriot you must have served and probably volunteered to support the cause you believe in so much. Tell us Todd, what branch of service did you join?

Todd Juvinall

I sure hope the dem candidates keep it up about no borders, indict ICE, keep dissing law enforcement and repeal those tax cuts. And that is just the beginning. I want them to hammer all those issues, over and over. The American people need to hear these policies loud and clear. Keep it up dems! And now we see Al Sharpton and Farrakhan and Bill Clinton and others at Aretha's service spewing thei hate. Oh and Maxine Waters too! Please keep that up. I am hoping you all do it over and over. Thanks for that!


Think these guys will vote to kill their jobs Paul?
"New Orleans, LA — The owner of a Louisiana pipe company says business is booming thanks to President Trump’s tariffs on imported steel and aluminum.
In an interview with the Monroe News Star, Jackie Rosenberg said his company Sol’s Pipe and Steel, which buys steel to make into pipes for domestic projects, has benefitted greatly from Trump’s 25 percent tariff on steel imports despite costs slightly rising."

So Paul, are you saying you want these workers to lose their jobs?
That's what WILL happen if LIBs gain control.
That's just one co. You want to take the food out of their kids mouths!
Ya.. Justify your selfish reasoning.

Don Bessee

You as a weekend warrior have ZERO cred to keep playing that bull shit game @ 755 ya po' ol' party parrot. Men who got a break on the draft lottery had the same chance to go as anyone. When you start sliming it is an affirmation that you are rhetorically out of your league and truly have NO answers other than what you are told to say in talking points for lefties. If it is so blue than why didn't you win any County offices?


Paul Emery

I'm sure the millions of reservists who served their country and were honorably discharged as veterans would be disgusted with you're regard for their service. Still waiting for Todd to remind us as to how he served his country in a war he loved so much.

Don, I could print the grizzly details of your military service but I won't.

Don Bessee

That's rich @ 825 for a guy who gleefully wallowed in your Bush Derangement Syndrome parroting the fake Dan Rather story about his national guard service as a pilot. I have bad news, there were deployed resevists which are different from weekend warriors. That's been the view from the inside before our current war.


Paul Emery

Thats right Don. some reserve units got called up and some didn't. there were four units of my kind on the West Coast. Two were activated, two wern't. Could of happened anytime and we were ready to go.

Todd Juvinall

Oh my Paul Emery is at it again. He told us he joined the reserves to avoid going to Vietnam. Now I really don't have a problem with that but to try and use that against others who were part of the draft is quite telling on his feelings of guilt. I was 326 in the lottery and was a married man with a baby at the time. So I chose to not volunteer. But to those that actually went into harm's way, I salute you. But the greek white supremacist does not get kudos as he does not deserve it. And he chastised George W. Bush for the same thing he did. What a hypocrite Paul Emery is.

George Rebane

Hey! Cut the military service bullshit, and stick to the topic.

Paul Emery

so I can add Greek white Supremacist to the list of characterizations you apply to me Todd. Do yo have any idea how stupid you sound?

Never said I joined to avoid Viet Nam Todd.
show me where I did,

I'm done with this topic . Boring. A draft avoider trying to put down someone who served six years in the Reserves and was honorably discharged. The Vets watching this are astounded by Todds lack of patriotism.

 Bill Tozer

Can!t say patriotism, it’s a dog whistle for white ptiveledge racism nowadays. Unless you are a Patriot, then you don’t give a rat’s ass about what they say no more. :)


Don't know what to make of this. I was a reservist (1965-71)weekend warrior, active duty 2yrs, HHC Berlin. Some get lucky, some don't. You never know about anyone...L


Know an LTC in Tuscon (Army), gets deployed about once every four years, o/w he and wife work at the VA. Different reserve under volunteer circumstances. L


Frisch's phantasies:

No poverty
Zero hunger
Good health and well-being.
Quality education.
Gender equality.
Clean water and sanitation.
Decent work and economic growth.
Reduced inequalities.
Sustainable cities and communities.
Climate action*.
Peace, justice and strong institutions.
Partnerships for the goals

The best way to work towards those goals are free minds and free markets, not putting progressives in control. And... there is no free lunch along the way.

*Climate action isn't under the control of CO2, but it will take a few more years of failed predictions from the likes of Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt to nullify the issue for good.

George Rebane

Greg 107am - you’ve always been hopeful on the decline of climate hysteria - I not so much. Can you share some of the evidence that gives that hope?

Account Deleted

Folks like Soros and the big wigs at the UN are pushing the 'climate change' hysteria for their one-world dream. There have been many in the higher ranks that have been very forthright about not caring about the science of it. Their stated goal is to get rid of capitalism. Folks like Frisch will not face any of this nor comment on it. It's swiped away as 'talking points'. Frisch is just a useful idiot. He has wonderful 'goals' but can not articulate them beyond the most vague of terms. As an example: "Climate action: stop pouring shit into our air"
By 'shit' I will have to assume he means particulates, chemicals and other sundry pollutants not found in the atmosphere before the industrial age. This would necessitate a complete halt in all manned aviation beyond a handful of fairly useless over-sized model kits. Not to mention a collapse of almost all societies around the globe. Yet this is his stated goal and off he goes in life feeling smug and superior for it. We have already had decades of failed predictions by the 'experts' and it seems to have no never-mind on the likes of Frisch.
Until the globalists and one-worldists come up with another scheme to frighten the masses towards enslavement, the climate change drum will be beaten.

"The best way to work towards those goals are free minds and free markets, not putting progressives in control. And... there is no free lunch along the way."


,,,whoa!!! Someone is obsessed with Dr Rochelle Guitierrez. I had to google her name and the first (((most viewed???))) link was a Fox News link.

Gotta love how Guitierrez looms large in GeorgeR’s mind and how she becomes (((in his mind))) a ‘’’leading light’’’ of Lefties even though she is not mainstream in any way.

One has to wonder why the obsession with an obscure college professor who has some far out views.

Anything to move the narrative forward no matter how misguided it might be appears to be the answer.


re: Dr Rochelle Gutierrez

She shows up at about number 12 in my search, perhaps it's a reflection of where you spend your time online.

“On many levels, mathematics itself operates as Whiteness. Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as White,” Gutierrez argued.

Gutierrez also worries that algebra and geometry perpetuate privilege, fretting that “curricula emphasizing terms like Pythagorean theorem and pi perpetuate a perception that mathematics was largely developed by Greeks and other Europeans."

Well, she does sound perfectly ridiculous. The frightening thing is to what extent this kind of 'scholarship' appears to be ingrained in modern universities.


"She shows up at about number 12 in my search"

By that, I mean in Fox News.


Why my optimism for the long term?

"... sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield.” - George Orwell 1948

Todd Juvinall

California 45 for Congress was highlighted in the SACBEE today. That is Mimi Walters area. Anyway, the article was a puff piece for Ms. Porter, a democrat socialist protege' of Pocahontas. The main interviewee was a supposed R who is upset that Trump is the President. The article is so biased it appears the "journalist" was disregarding the R's that did vote for Mimi and Trump. The is a microcosm of why we have no faith in the news media. You can sense the glee the reporter has for a victory by the extremist Porter. My guess is it stays R.


,,,why do we have a local hospital run by wackydoodle religious fanatics???


Todd Juvinall

M you are a racist pig. The CEO of Dignity is a very well qualifed back man. Shame on you.

George Rebane

ToddJ 1031am - Now we have to be careful here Mr Juvinall in calling M a "racist pig" because of his stance on 'right to die' conflicts with that of of Dignity Health, whose head just happens to be black. That is the kind of logic the Left always uses against the Right, and hereabout abounds from the comments of our leftist readers including Mr M. I beseech you to take a higher road.

Todd Juvinall

Willo do

Todd Juvinall

Will do, actually I use hyperbole to get their attention and give them back what they usually push on the right. I know it is petty but I get great responses from them as they back pedal when confronted with their own tactics.

George Rebane

Gregory 838am - Quite true, but time spans of "sooner or later" matter. Many in 1919 predicted the imminent downfall of Marxist Bolshevism. It took over 70 years, and by its active remnants and resurgence in minds of the West's young and ignorant, it is far from dead today. As one of our commenters noted, until the Left has a substitute idee fixe for promoting global government, it will continue beating the climate change drum (with California, of course, being its poster-child drum major).

M 754am - Mr M again reminds us with an illustration of the depth and breadth of his readings.

Paul Emery


Our host also has "wonderful goals" and also "can not articulate them beyond the most vague of terms". For example he speaks of free trade but our current President has done more to undermine that concept of any President in recent history. And environmental conditions get completely ignored if they in any conflict with so called the capitalism which i don't believe represents true capitalism in a modern culture.

My views are pragmatic, which I reflected in my 7:52. Government historically has not been the friend of the common people and primarily serves as the agent of the ruling class to maintain and expand on their wealth and power. that certainly was the case in the USSR and China and others for example.

The Dems need to win the house to create gridlock. that's the best way to temper the power of runaway government. So I say go Dems in the fall.

Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge.


I've a keyboard now....

Outside of fully involved thoughtworlds such as the formerly Golden State and Brussels, the climate change rallying cry is already dying out and I suspect many Dems go along so as to not rile the enforcers amongst them ready to pounce on apostates.

Of course the cool August just past is only weather, while the hot July was widely reported as a harbinger of Climate Change, even though it wasn't historically all that hot if you weren't actually on fire.

We have the solar dual-dynamo model
explaining how the Maunder Minimum came about and an awfully good prediction that it's just a decade away from reappearing in full force, and we have good data on correlations of sunspots (a measure of heliosphere electromagnetic energy) and Earth temperatures and how that is coupled to the formation of low cloud cover.

In ten years, the heat waves used to scare people into submission are going to look pretty good in hindsight. Cold kills quickly; imagine how many will die if a winter harvest fails. Then think about the failure of a summer harvest season.

It's going to be a bumpy ride.


"Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge."
-punchy 1143am

In other words, "Green Libertarians" believe in local coercion. Like your pushing for non-progressives to move out of your town to let the place be stone-cold Blue.

That isn't very libertarian of you, Paul.

Paul Emery

Ignoring the manifestations of human abuse of the earth is an example of my 11:42, Example:

Coral Reefs Disappearing Faster Than Thought

The reefs in this region, called the Indo-Pacific, are disappearing at a rate of 1 percent per year—nearly 600 square miles of reef have disappeared per year since the late 1960s, researchers found.

"We have already lost half of the world's reef-building corals," said study team leader John Bruno of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.


Here's a list of global warming effects if anyone cares to plough through it.

Top 10 Surprising Results of Global Warming

Todd Juvinall

Global warming hysteria again? Jeeze!

Paul Emery


You are referring to my urging Todd to relocate up North somewhere. That was a kind gesture to assist him in his mental health. He's having a hard time right now and it will only get worse. I would prefer he stay around as an old timer that can tell tales of the good old days as he saw them but it's his choice.

I like having you around and enjoy our conversations much more than the exchanges on this blog,

George Rebane

PaulE 1142pm - That was a low blow Paul. If anything, all of my prescriptions have been and continue to be operational and pragmatic. Can you point to any of them that have been left dangling "beyond most vague of terms" without back-up sufficient within the scope of an online blog? If all I did was provide conservetarian pabulum here, then you and the rest would quickly abandon these pages. It is the specifics that give RR readers the purchase within which to sink their critical teeth or pin their own versions of the solutions I proffer.

Paul Emery


Do you have any concern for the disappearance of coral reefs for example or is it fake news?

Paul Emery


For example can you give me one example of a health care system anywhere in the world that meets you're prescriptions of being functional, economically sustainable and without government support. That's a start.

George Rebane

PaulE 1211pm - Yes, as I have argued many times, America's is still the best with its warts and all. And I've give detailed prescriptions (many from smarter heads than mine) on how to make it even better. However, it's the 'better' aspect of healthcare where I part company with you and your socialist cohorts. We have completely different social utilities for healthcare, which in the attempt to illustrate, if you'll recall, I even went as far as to quantify and ask for your inputs, which invitation you ignored.

Care to try again?


"Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge."

Ahh. I finally understand.

'Green Libertarian' is a synonym for 'Amish'.

Well hell man, knock yourself out. Grab 100 or so friends, jointly buy a piece of property, set up some kind of shared insurance pool. Stay off the internet and worrying about everyone else for once.

There's absolutely nothing in the world keeping you from living as you see fit if that is your aim. Of course, you'd have to do something useful for the community. That's always the crux of the matter I think, especially if you are light on practical skills.


re: Coral reefs

They are less permanent than you might think.


Don Bessee





re: paying for healthcare

"Yes, as I have argued many times, America's is still the best with its warts and all. "

As long as emergency rooms and hospitals are forced to take any old person who wanders in, I think you can make a good case for forcing everyone to buy health insurance. The Swiss system doesn't look terrible, but on the other hand, they're all Swiss. The average US citizen doesn't strike me as being as well behaved.

Of course, I'd have ICE on speed dial when illegals were discharged.

Not to pick on Paul, I view him more as a rhetorical device, but the Pauls of the world want the best US-style healthcare at no personal expense. That's where the financial rubber always hits the road.


Punchy 1155am
From your link: "The pattern of loss across the entire study area indicates that coral loss is a global phenomenon, likely brought on by large-scale stressors such as climate change, coral disease, predators, nutrient pollution and overfishing."

Is "likely brought on" by a whole list of things thrown into the fan. It also left out the fact that a chemical commonly added to UV blocking sunscreen cremes KILLS coral at damn low concentrations and has been implicated in Australian reef losses. And the Pauls of the world, fancying themselves Green Libertarians run off screaming "save the coral" by stopping people from using petroleum fuels or turning on their heat in the winter. Walking and shivering is good for you.

Scenes, good catch. "Green Libertarian" is the Amish, without the dreary fundamentalist Protestantism. Different hair shirts.

Paul Emery

So Scenes you're response to the diminishing Coral Reefs around Florida is that it's not really a serious problem and that Nature will take care of it. Nature sure will Scenes. To quote from the bible-"Men come and go but Earth abides" (simplified version from a famous Sci Fi wrtten in 1948-Earth Abides).

Did you read the link you sent me? If you did you would have read this

global warming really does look a serious threat to the reef

"The barrier reef’s ability to resurrect itself is encouraging. But whether it could rise from the dead a sixth time is moot. The threat now is different. It is called bleaching and involves the tiny animals, known as polyps, which are the living part of a reef, ejecting their symbiotic algae. These algae provide much of a polyp’s food, but also generate toxins if the temperature gets too high, in which case the polyp throws them out. That causes the coral to lose its colour.

Polyps can tolerate occasional bleaching, but if it goes on too long, then they die. In the short term, therefore, global warming really does look a serious threat to the reef. It would, no doubt, return if and when the sea temperature dropped again. But when that would be, who knows?

Paul Emery

So Gregory for the sake of discussion let me agree with you that Global warming may not be a threat to Coral reefs. Well something is unless you deny the research. should we as a planet determine what that is and take action to stop or slow it it? I contend we need to. what is your view?

Lets continue this in the fresh sandbox..


re: PaulE

Hey, don't look at me. I don't doubt that there are large scale human effects on the environment. Too many people. Of course, ice ages tend to completely wipe out reefs, regardless of size, and happen on a fairly regular basis. For all I know, greenhouse gases have put off the next cooling cycle.

It's a damned shame that the US Left has used ecological concerns as a way to gain power rather than to accomplish anything of value. The US produces something like 17% of worldwide CO2, China is twice that. Asian and African rivers produce 93% of ocean plastic. Answer? Yet another bit of PR on KVMR for a Save the Environment Concert. Move millions of people to the first world where they can pollute a bit more. Buy electric cars in order to push the pollution to a foreign country.

Honestly, I curse the Left for this to some extent. They've gathered up any interest in reducing human footprint on the planet and spend all that political capital on things that don't make a bit of f*cking difference. A pox on your house. I don't know if it's innumeracy or just flat stupidity.

Account Deleted

PE at 11:42 - Ah yes - you defend Frisch by simply attacking George. In other words - you admit I'm correct in my assessment of Frisch and you have no rebuttal.
"Our host also has "wonderful goals" and also "can not articulate them beyond the most vague of terms". For example he speaks of free trade but our current President has done more to undermine that concept of any President in recent history."
That statement doesn't even make logical sense, Paul.
What goals George has and how he articulates them has absolutely nothing to do with any president. When did George ever say that Trump's trade policies are exactly the same as his trade policies? In fact, George has openly expressed doubts about Trump's trade policies.

" Government historically has not been the friend of the common people and primarily serves as the agent of the ruling class to maintain and expand on their wealth and power."
Well - in the US we citizens elect that govt so that's what the majority must want. The citizens are the ruling class.

"The Dems need to win the house to create gridlock. that's the best way to temper the power of runaway government. So I say go Dems in the fall."
Ah yes - the Green Libertarian once again favors the Dems. Because of course - Paul's no friend of the Dems. Ever.

"Green Libertarians believe in the power of an enlightened culture to take care of human needs and the environment without the necessity of government being in charge."
Oh Paul - you'll just have to expand on THAT statement. Does that mean no govt at all? Anarchy?
Or will there be a govt that 'isn't in charge'? Then who will be?

Paul - please, please, please, let us all know when this enlightened culture comes down the gangplank of the spaceship that arrives from whatever planet you obviously live on.


gregory: "Scenes, good catch. "Green Libertarian" is the Amish, without the dreary fundamentalist Protestantism. Different hair shirts."

I think the Protestantism has value, even if it doesn't represent physical reality. That social glue is gold.

I'd say that the Green Libertarians are different than the Amish mostly in lack of practical skills and in general laziness. Stick Paul and 100 of his friends on a fertile piece of land with some draft animals and tools, and they starve to death. They would learn the lesson of the village commons up close and personal.

I do give that challenge to Paul, though. There is absolutely no reason you couldn't set up your own ideal world. The tax load would be minimal. California state law, building code, environmental regs, are, by definition to a Leftist, trivial. Why in the hell don't you build a Green Libertarian Eden? Heck, I'll even give you a book showing which end of a hammer to hold.


Punch 110pm
"So Gregory for the sake of discussion let me agree with you that Global warming may not be a threat to Coral reefs. Well something is unless you deny the research. should we as a planet determine what that is and take action to stop or slow it it? I contend we need to. what is your view?"

Paul, *we* are not a planet. We *are* all sometimes well behaved chimpanzees, some are smarter and better behaved than others, and I doubt *we* could come to an agreement as to which are which.

Your (note that's 'your' not 'you're') bright, shiny object (BSO) at the moment is this "research" positing a 1% loss of coral reef a year, and a list of possible causes that leaves an obvious cause off the list:

It's toxic (meaning it KILLS coral) down to 62 parts per *trillion* concentration.

Of course, that abstract also calls on "climate change" to appease the grant giving gods of the NSF in a prayer for more funding.

So sayeth the lord.

Todd Juvinall

Hey Paul Emery, there was once a species called dinosaurs that lived on the planet for 150 million years. And not one is left. And there was a single land mass called GAIA I think or giganto or something, and now that has split up into a number of continents. And all before man was here. But if Paul Emery wants to think this is all happening becaise some little warm blooded man and woman are making it happen (if it is) then go ahead and have your nerves stressed. Mine are just fine.

Paul Emery

So conditions of coral reefs no problem according to Todd and Gregory. Got it.


Todd, that's silly. Of course there are dinosaurs left.

I just finished a lovely brunch of fried, scrambled dinosaur eggs, with cheese and avocado. Yum! And the eggs are available cage free and organic in your local supermarkets and from your local farmer at over twice the price.

Dinosauria is a clade, not a species. Modern birds are the surviving members of the clade Avialae, a feathered sub clade of Dinosauria.


Paul, you're showing yourself unworthy of the title homo sapiens sapiens. It's pan troglodyte troglodyte for you. Try to keep up.

Nowhere did I write the condition of the coral reefs are no problem, nor did I infer it. What I did try to infer is that you're a stupid poopyheaded chimp unsuited to making decisions for the community. Any community.

Todd Juvinall

Thanks for straightening me out Gregory. I'll go have some dinosaur right now too.

Todd Juvinall

Regarding coral reefs. I am sad that things come and go that we all like Paul Emery. I just lost a good friend to pancreatic cancer and I feel terrible for him but he was prepared and is now in his heaven. Reefs are natural things that have enemies and diseases and predators and many other things that attack them. Just like humans have many things as well. It is sad but real.

Paul Emery

Fair enough response Gregory then what should we do about the conditions of the Coral reefs?

Got your message Todd. Let them go and don't do nothing to try to save them. Sad but real

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery, putting words in mouths again. I say you need to get your rubber dingy and travel to the reefs of concern and hangout and protest. Do something rather than your usual blathering.

Paul Emery

Typical Todd doing a personal attack and avoiding the question. You're dismissed Todd. You can go home and play in you're frog pond.

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