Fascism – what it is and isn’t (addended)

George Rebane

Since the Democratic Party’s great Leftward Lurch, it is now publicly and unabashedly America’s new socialist party, notwithstanding start-up wannabes like the newly formed Progressive Party USA.  The Left’s problem today is how they must carefully wend their way through a potential political minefield in how they describe their brand of collectivism – i.e. socialism - in a way that doesn’t blow up the narrative they have been carefully nurturing since the days of FDR.

As we witness in these pages and from the years-long national dialogue, the Left has always maintained that while they embrace the socialism of a Marxist-Leninist provenance, the extreme Right, in its turn, embraces the fascism of Hitler and Mussolini.  And therefore, to all good modern leftwingers, fascism is not now and never has been a form of socialism – fascism is instead the form of totalitarianism that comprises the hidden agenda of the Right and is the other bookend of their simplistic political spectrum.  This is both factually and historically false as we’ll cover in a moment.  But given the difficulties our Left has had in selling socialism to Americans, they have always desperately needed an ideological bogeyman or monster that they could erect and portray to the lightly read, and against which they could favorably compare the nostrums and shibboleths celebrating their brave new world.  Enter ‘fascism’, the avowed enemy and monstrous ideology that we fought and vanquished in WW2, and, according to the Left, the rebirth of which once more threatens the world if the Right comes to power and has its way with us.  (And hence the current rationale for the Left’s sanctioned “incivility” in the streets until they regain power.)

So, for at least the last 75 years, the Left’s narrative has drawn its substance and raison d’etre from characterizing itself as the defender of the common man against what they invent for public consumption as the rapacious Right of the greedy capitalists.  These are the people whose only aim is to exploit and then enslave the masses under an autocratic cum totalitarian governance that forcefully exploits them as the labor engines to create wealth, which is then shunted into the coffers of the … (wait for it), the ‘fascist elites’.  Unfortunately for the Left, history has shown all this occurring only after collectivists have come to power.

America’s Right has continued to characterize itself as promoting the ideology of individual enterprise, free markets, private property, liberty, distributed governance through minimalist governments/jurisdictions, and an originalist (‘textualist’) interpretation of the Constitution (see Addendum).  This interpretation embraces inevitable change through constitutional ways and means prescribed and practiced throughout our history.  In short, an ideology that is a total antithesis of the collectivists’ worship of society organized under and administered through the strata of (altruistic) central planners and controllers within an expansive and ever-expanding government.  Today the Left marches toward globalization under banners emblazoned with ‘democracy’, and the full and selectively suppressed knowledge that, practiced in the large, democracy quickly consumes itself as it morphs into one of the particularly egregious forms of totalitarianism.

Economist and academic Douglas Hotz-Eakin – president of the American Action Forum, formerly with Syracuse University, and past head of the Congressional Budget Office – in a recent interview described socialism as coming in “two basic flavors”.  The first is a form of governance in which the government owns and directs all means of production and distribution – let’s reference it as Type1.  This form eschews private property as the source of all social evils, and finds its consummate expression in Marxist-Leninist communism.  The second form of socialism is where, for the most part, the means of production and distribution are left in the hands of a favored private sector.  However, government still is the central planner that assumes the dominant role of directing what is produced when, and how it will be distributed – let’s reference this as Type2.  This is socialism’s fascistic form which was implemented by the pre-WW2 ultra-nationalistic governments of Germany, Italy, and Imperial Japan under which individual freedoms and enterprise were abolished by government diktat.

The historical roots of fascism are important to review, especially since the Left has made their instruction in western schools a thing of the past.  Konrad Heiden, German historian, journalist, academic, and briefly a Nazi Party member, was the first to introduce American audiences to Adolph Hitler and the origins of Germany’s National Socialist (Nazi) Party.  In his landmark Der Fuehrer (1944) published by Houghton-Mifflin in the throes of WW2 (and picked up by the US Book-of-the-Month Club), Heiden gives an exhaustively detailed biography of Hitler, and the history of the Nazi Party – from its founding and rise until they came to rule Germany in 1934.

(Heiden was also the first to announce Hitler’s ‘Final Solution’ to the world in 1938, writing – “To drive 600,000 people by robbery into hunger, by hunger into desperation, by desperation into wild outbreaks, and by such outbreaks into the waiting knife -- such is the coolly calculated plan. Mass murder is the goal, a massacre such as history has not seen – certainly not since Tamerlane and Mithridates. We can only venture guesses as to the technical forms these mass executions are to take.”)

The sordid history of fascistic socialism began with Benito Mussolini in 1919.  Historian, journalist, and author Nicholas Burgess Farrell’s recent comprehensive biography of the Italian dictator – Mussolini: A New Life (2003) - notes from the start that today “fascism means a word that has become an all-purpose term of abuse for something people, mainly liberals, do not like: i.e., something ‘far right’. … What I discovered is that fascism is not far right at all.  In fact, it is an alternative far-left revolutionary movement.”

‘Fascism, Real and Imagined’ (Chronicles, Sep 2018), describes how Mussolini’s love affair with communism that started before WW1 when he was “the leading light in Italy of international socialism (communism) who ditched that to invent national socialism (fascism) 100 years ago in 1919.”  For that deviation Mussolini was kicked out by the communists, started fascism, and vanquished the Italian communists in due course.

In 1932 Mussolini co-authored The Doctrine of Fascism that laid out the doctrine and principles of fascism.  There it is made clear that “fascism regarded the state as the solution, not the problem”, and that robustly “separates it from the Anglo-American, or Anglo-Saxon, conservative and libertarian ‘bourgeois’ right for whom the opposite is the case. … In fact, fascism has much more in common with communism than either has with capitalism or democracy.  This is why - for instance - the Times regularly defined Soviet communism in the 1930’s as “fascist”, and why the 1939 Nazi-Soviet Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a far more natural alliance than the subsequent alliance between Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin.”

During the same post-WW1 years (1919-1923) when both USSR/Russia and Germany were having their own form of civil wars, Hitler became enamored with the way Lenin had marshaled the Russian masses to smite the established aristocracy and bourgeoisie, and then take complete control of those who had done the party’s bidding.  Heiden reports the efforts Hitler made in communicating with German communists with the purpose of forming a unified coalition to take over the country and free it from the heel of Versailles to form a new Germany in command of its own destiny and not the dictates of Allies to whom their beloved fatherland had been betrayed.

However, things didn’t work out because German communists were taking their marching orders from Moscow to demand that the new Nazis be folded into the German Communist Party, and that the emphasis then would be to support the international spread of communism through the implantation of fresh party cells into countries that were ripe for revolution.  Hitler would have none of it because he and his cohort were focused on restructuring Germany into the Type2 (described above) socialist country, cleansing it from undesirable ethnic elements blamed for betraying Germany during the war and siding with the Allies to implement the Versailles Treaty.  This included the maintenance of the economically devastating naval blockade after the cessation of hostilities which made it impossible for Germany to pay the reparations that even the Allies (save France) considered usurious.  Hitler now had the perfect political and economic environment for launching a nationalist party against the demonstrated 'communist/Jewish traitors'.

By the mid-1920s Hitler already realized that he and his henchmen were building the German version of what Mussolini was bringing about in Italy – the Type2 socialism known as fascism.

To add to this smorgasbord of labels, today we have an added semantic conundrum around the concept of ‘populism’ which the Left has made a Siamese twin of fascism, and with great effect imposed on those ignorant of the real history of fascism.  According to Farrell, what unites all populist parties of the Left (including fascism) and Right “is a passionate determination to defend the nation, its culture and way of life, from today’s political, economic, and cultural imperialist and their institutions, such as the EU, Goldman Sachs, CNN, and the BBC.”

However, British and American populisms are different from the continental European forms for a very basic reason.  “Anglo-Saxon law is based on liberty; European law on rights.  In Britain, for example, you are free (or were, until Britain joined the E.U.) to do something unless the state has passed a law that stops you.  In Europe, you are not free to do anything until the state has granted you the right to do it.”  Moreover, most populisms with which we are familiar are not racist, “unless you define their determination to put a stop to mass immigration and multicultural imperialism as racist.  And if anyone is antisemitic, it’s the far Left who despise Israel.”

Years ago, in ‘Ideologies and Governance – a structured look’ (here), I attempted to communicate a more realistic ideological spectrum in a multi-dimensional graphic from that clearly shows the true difference between collectivist ideologies (socialist, communist, fascist, theistic, …) and their antitheses, the basis of which is summarized by the Bastiat Triangle of Rights (here). These were presaged and structured by our Founders in the Constitution which has become our common American heritage.  And all this is a history that the Left has buried, and is doing everything it can to keep buried (more here and here) so as to falsely portray fascism, socialism’s own bastard sibling, as the Right’s target ideology for organizing counter-globalist societies to embrace populistic forms of autocratic nationalism.

[Addendum]  Constitutional interpretation is a much debated subject.  A commenter brought up his understanding of my use of the such interpretations. According to my readings, I view some of the main interpretations within the following taxonomy (my own preference is shown in green).

A set of definitions that go with this are –

Originalist - An originalist is a person who believes that the meaning of the constitution does not change or evolve over time, but rather that the meaning of the text is both fixed and knowable.  An originalist believes that the fixed meaning of the text should be the sole guide for a judge when applying or interpreting a constitutional provision.

Textualist - A textualist is an originalist who gives primary weight to the text and structure of the Constitution. The text means what it would have been understood to mean by an ordinary person at the time it was written.   Textualists often are skeptical of the ability of judges to determine collective "intent."  Justice Antonin Scalia was a textualist.

Intentionalist - An intentionalist is an originalist who gives primary weight to the intentions of framers, members of proposing bodies, and ratifiers. Judge Robert Bork was an intentionalist.

Pragmatists - Non-originalist who give substantial weight to judicial precedent or the consequences of alternative (also ideology based) interpretations, so as to sometimes favor a decision "wrong" on originalist terms because it promotes stability or in some other way promotes the public good.

(more here)

Comments

[Don Bessee]

Thought police -

A top Democrat in Pennsylvania said that he was forced to resign due to past Facebook posts that were deemed controversial.
Mark Salvas told CBS 2 Pittsburgh that he was asked by the chair of the Allegheny County Democratic Party to resign, largely because of a photo from last year that showed him and his wife with the words "I stand for the flag, I kneel at the cross."

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/10/15/pennsylvania-democrat-mark-salvas-forced-resign-over-controversial-facebook-posts

;-)

[Gregory]

"...and an originalist (‘textualist’) interpretation of the Constitution"

George, originalist pairs only with interpreting the constitution, Textualism is bound to statutory interpretation. Or so I've been told.

[Tricky McClean]

This is a fun read, George: https://medium.com/@RyanMallettOuttrim/if-you-love-hilariously-shitty-right-wing-anti-intellectualism-then-prager-university-has-a-treat-7379a4ce7a76
Let’s see how many barn laps we can achieve before we exhaust your barnyard of epistoleans. Maybe we can get a response from Dinesh as well? I’m assuming you have him on speed dial.

[scenes]

re: "Tricky" McClean@6:43AM

" in reality, it’s a right-wing anti-science blog that produces short videos packed full of shitty ideas."

Oh well, that's as far as I got. The commercial internet has always been long on opinion, short on reporting. Pity that the editorials are written by edgy 23 year olds. Edgy old men point at edgy 23 year olds and cleverly state, 'YEAH, WHAT HE SAID'.

It always seemed to me that political movements like Fascism are from a time and place. They tend to evolve (with some not-so-closely-followed founding documents) and only really define a single situation...in this case, Italy. The average schlub won't know a lot about it, partly because political history is pretty boring.

The internet definitions tend to be so trivial and short of implementation details, that they become relatively meaningless. If you have trouble sleeping sometime, read a detailed history of the Soviets finding their way to their own nirvana. The symbols tended to stay the same, but 'Communism' was a series of huge course changes.

I think it's just one of those cases where getting a grasp on the matter via building simple models just doesn't work. Pasting together groups larger than tribes is difficult on the ground.

[fish]

Posted by: Tricky McClean | 16 October 2018 at 06:43 AM

Whooo......finally......another “you’re the real fascist” link! And just in time too.

Thanks Michael!

[Account Deleted]

scenes at 7:44 - "Oh well, that's as far as I got."
But wait, there's more!
Lots of potty talk and F-bombs just so you know the author is all edgy and cool.
Little cartoons like the one that compared the poor terrorists in GitMo with actual Cuban citizens. See? Castro is actually nicer than the American govt!
The article never strays into the current reality of the various political theories. Socialism just gets a bad rap because it's never been allowed to be done correctly.
Those darn white guys in pinstripe suits keep showing up and messing everything up for everyone else.
The sad thing is Tricky eats this stuff up unquestioningly.

[L]

Tricky, "By their daily language shall ye know them". L

[Tricky McClean]

Funny how the denizens of “All Potty Mouth, All the Time” Rebane’s Ruminations are now heading for their fainting couches. Buncha snowflakes I tell ya.

Perhaps when you come to, at least one of you barnyard animals can refute that Giovanni Gentile “developed a political philosophy that was directly opposed to Marxism in almost every way”?

[fish]

Posted by: Tricky McClean | 16 October 2018 at 11:20 AM

Funny how the denizens of “All Potty Mouth, All the Time” Rebane’s Ruminations are now heading for their fainting couches.

......denizens....? A comment from a guy who is here once and a while.

I can't speak for our host Michael but cuss all you want ya fucker!

[George Rebane]

TrickyM 1120am - your comment is a bit tricky for me (I assume that's how you got your moniker), please relate it to my post's topic. And what was the purpose of leading with your "denizens" remark?

[Account Deleted]

"Perhaps when you come to, at least one of you barnyard animals can refute that Giovanni Gentile “developed a political philosophy that was directly opposed to Marxism in almost every way”?
I'm hardly shocked by the language, doofus. I have friends that could cuss that dork under the table. It would just be nice to have more logic and less @#%$%#. As far as refuting some one's opinion of Giovanni Gentile - why? 00.000001% of anyone alive even knows who he is and his thoughts on any sort of governance.
The discussion is about the history of actual governments and the way they actually govern/ed. The NAZI govt most certainly was a form of socialism. Just not the same sort as others. All socialists govts of whatever form are antithetical to our Constitution and Bill Of Rights.
Freedom or free stuff - take your pick.

[scenes]

"Funny how the denizens of “All Potty Mouth, All the Time” Rebane’s Ruminations are now heading for their fainting couches. Buncha snowflakes I tell ya."

I don't much care that edgy 23 year old bloggists curse, it's just that it's obvious that the link is not to news or history but just to a POV. You were waving it around as some sort of talisman of truth.

I get that enough online without reading more. The fact that the writer is obviously not any kind of domain expert makes it worse.

If you want to pitch up the odd anti-Trumpist news factlet or funny cartoon, go for it. I'm all for making fun of our betters.

[George Rebane]

Gregory 1214am - Good point Greg, thanks for bringing it up. I've added an addendum to illustrate my use of the constitutional interpretation labels.

[scenes]

"at least one of you barnyard animals can refute that Giovanni Gentile “developed a political philosophy that was directly opposed to Marxism in almost every way”"

That's a statement that is worth considering, perhaps you could lay out your case more thoroughly.

One central difference is the lack of class struggle (I believe that's true) in Gentile. I view the two belief systems as being oblique.

So...in what ways are they directly opposite?

[George Rebane]

re scenes 109pm - I remain puzzled by TrickyM's 1120am, he seems to have a completely different understanding of fascism and Gentile than does the rest of the world. But I've come to accept that in progressives as just another corroboration of how they deal with the world - e.g. 'San Francisco values' and all that.

[Tricky McClean]

denizen = inhabitant
Usage: On the infamous RR blog, some barnyard denizens are more equal than others.

[scenes]

Oh well George, it's probably all worse than it seems.

https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1539687487796.jpg

[George Rebane]

Scenes 255pm - Thank you Mr Scenes, I needed that ;-) I wonder if Mr McClean, a regular denizen of RR, considers himself as among peers, or a ‘more equal’ visitor to these parts - I.e. an elitist drive-by.

[Account Deleted]

"On the infamous RR blog, some barnyard denizens are more equal than others."
Evidence?
Proof?
Facts?
Nah- I didn't so.
You're projecting again, leftie.

[Account Deleted]

Another example of a fascist, socialistic govt at work. Or rather - not at work.
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/10/15/rats-nycha-claremont-consolidated-houses-bronx/
No free-market profit-based nonsense here!
Just another govt run slum.
If the Dems take over, this is how millions more will have to live.
Enjoy!

[Don Bessee]

It looks like this -

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2018/10/16/chinese-online-blogger-arrested-singing-national-anthem-badly/

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2018/10/16/china-radical-western-politicians-cant-see-success-muslim-re-education-camps/

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/15/report-china-wants-googles-help-to-persecute-uighur-minority/

;-)

[Barry Pruett]

Thank you George!

[Tricky McClean]

Oh for darn sake, you guys are just so dang serious! Let’s try a little comedy to take the edge off: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=HJVXDqzUFQA

[Account Deleted]

So Tricky doesn't like any attention to Chinese concentration camps.
Instead he trolls with a nonsense video.
So-
Trump is a literal Hitler - because - uh - actually we have no proof of anything of the kind.
Meanwhile China is rounding up and incarcerating citizens and Tricky can only link to BS.
Got it.
Thanks, Tricky - have fun when they round you up and throw you in the camp.
Remember
You asked for it.

[Bill Tozer]

Dr. Rebane penned iin his post:

“However, British and American populisms are different from the continental European forms for a very basic reason. “Anglo-Saxon law is based on liberty; European law on rights. In Britain, for example, you are free (or were, until Britain joined the E.U.) to do something unless the state has passed a law that stops you. In Europe, you are not free to do anything until the state has granted you the right to do it.”

Folks put fascism and communism into two broad camps. To me, it all smells the same at the end of the day. Same with totalitarianism, dictatorships, socialism, Marxism, monarchies, and whatever label one uses. It all gets down to power and control freaks. Power mad control freaks. Loss of freedom, loss of individual liberties. The individual is diminished so the State may increase.

No two things are exactly the same in size, shape, and dimension, as common knowledge teaches. While the individual circumstances of each example of fascism or communism throughout human history is unique to itself, the end results have the same stench of death and authoritarianism. Human nature guarantees it. Whether one points to the French Revolution, the Russian Civil War, or Castro, the story repeats itself. Once the “people’s revolution” ascends to power, the power struggle continues as those who lust for absolute control turn on the various factions that brought “the people” to power, bringing all into the fold. Lenin went after and crushed the other communist group. Castro jailed and executed former revolutionary groups that helped bring down Bastista, and all were brought under the iron fist of a small group. The Night of Terror, Night of the Long Knives, if you will. It’s all became a power struggle, turning on and eating their own. China to Cambodia to East Germany. Rat your neighbor out, even members of your own family. We afraid to speak, be very afraid. The man will come and take you away.

After Bastista fell, the new Cuban government made all discrimination illegal. All people were to treated the same, be they Afro-Cubans, white capitalists...everybody. After Castro concentrated his power in the new government and appointed himself President, it became illegal to accuse any official of discrimination. Illegal to accuse anyone of discrimination. Thousands of former freedom fighters were imprisoned or executed for criticizing the “government”, including Castro’s former long time friend and economic advisor who said Fidel’s policies would not work. Just one example of many.

Authority Is instituted for the benefit of the governed. Power benefits and enriched only those who wield power. For George Washington to relinquish “power” is mind boggling. He did not fall into what Jonah Goldberg calls the Totalatarian Temptation. that besets and bedevils all the communal movements, no matter how well intentioned the origins of such movements were. It all gets down to control freaks doing what control freaks lust for: having power over what others do, say, think. It is evil.

Back to Dr. Rebane’s quote posted in the opening paragraph. The Left’s wanton lust for ‘fairness’ and ‘equality’ is opposed to liberty. Liberty is stomped on in the name of fairness or the bastardized so-called common good. Equality under the law, yes. Equality in life? No. Call it what you will, the Totalitarian Temptation is alive and well on the Left. Alive and well in fascism, in communism, in socialism. It’s all about power,

[Bill Tozer]

The term ‘nationalism’ in today’s lingo is equated to Nazi Germany. Many readers would be surprised to consider the fact that one of the most renowned nationalists of the 20th Century was Gandhi. A nationalist through and through. India first and foremost. And he was a racist in today’s social justice mantra.

Populism is neither good or bad. Populism is in and of itself neutral. It is the intent of populism that makes it good or bad.

Intent hides behind many balloyed about labels. What is the intent behind ‘Social Justice’? Sounds good at first glance. Pull away the layers, and I see the Totalatarin Tememptation. Means and methods to achieve Social Justice reeks of power over others. Evil power. Fairness to whom? It’s an assualt on liberty and freedoms.
PC sounds good at first glance as well. Civility is not a bad thing. Again, pull back the layers and one sees censorship, speech control, and mind control. Ironically, the news is filled with the incivility and assualts from those promoting PC and Social Justice.

A socialist is just a patient communist. A fascist in training.

[Todd Juvinall]

Red wave coming!

[George Rebane]

BillT 644am - Yes Mr Tozer, you completely get it. The generalization of your autocracies is also in the above linked 'Ideologies and Governance - a structured look'. There is only one item in your 709am I would do a little edit on to read,

'A socialist is just a patient fascist. A communist in training.'

This reflects the progression of state ownership of the ways and means of production and distribution, and the abrogation of private property - it's a one-way street. And it all starts with the 'socialism lite' that we witness entrenched today in Europe and now coming ashore in America.

[Bill Tozer]

Dr. Rebane @ 9:52 am

Hear, hear. An excellent and most clarifying much needed edit. Thank you.

[Don Bessee]

Another resistance socialist bites the dust and it tastes sour -

Natalie Mayflower Sours Edwards is accused of illegally photographing Suspicious Activity Reports (SARS) -- which are sent by banks and other financial institutions to alert law enforcement to potential illegal activity -- and leaking them to the press. Edwards worked as a senior adviser at the Treasury Department’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), according to a press release by the Southern District of New York.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/treasury-employee-arrested-on-suspicion-of-leaking-financial-info-on-trump-campaign-officials-Russians

;-)

[Don Bessee]

The brownshirts -

https://freebeacon.com/politics/two-gop-candidates-assaulted-minnesota/

Taliban cuddler -

https://freebeacon.com/politics/kyrsten-sinema-wanted-compassion-iraqis-2003/

Anti-American and socialist to the core -

https://freebeacon.com/politics/dem-candidate-member-group-working-against-us-gov-el-salvador/

;-)

[Todd Juvinall]

I am under attack by a LBGTQ on the Union. The Sue Clark column. WOW! They just make it up. I am sure if they get power I will be toast. LOL!

[Don Bessee]

A oldie but a favorite of the socialists -

https://www.foxnews.com/world/communist-party-detention-program-disappears-more-chinese-accused-of-corruption

;-)

[Tricky McClean]

Are public utilities socialism?

['''M''']

,,,no todd,,,you are probably just trolling the Union comment section with your many trump like boasts/lies.
We know from Stormy that the Fascist lover Trump does have his "SHORT COMINGS" also.

[George Rebane]

TrickyM 114pm - They are a form of minimalist collectivism that is acceptable to a broad spectrum of ideologies. Recall that conservetarian governance acknowledges the need for and accept a number of social service to be provided by the collective. This has been discussed and expanded here for years.

[***M***]

,,,Damn those fascists,,,;
public K-12 education;
public libraries;
public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems;
public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA.;
and damn that fascist Social Security, which is socialism for seniors.

[Don Bessee]

Soros school for socialists -

Florida gubernatorial candidate Andrew Gillum graduated from an Oakland, California-based training school for progressive revolutionaries that has spawned a list of activists who have gone on to become the who’s who of the far-left leadership world, with many taking senior positions at organizations financed by billionaire George Soros.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/17/andrew-gillum-graduated-training-school-that-spawned-soros-army-of-revolutionaries/

;-)

[scenes]

"Are public utilities socialism?"

I'd say, 'no'. They aren't owned by the collective and they are regulated only in the broadest sense.

It's like asking if a company who sells only to the government is the product of socialism.

Is your septic tank socialism? Consider that it is designed to strict government specs, can be outlawed at will, and makes use of a public sphere (groundwater, adjoining property).

[scenes]

"M" at 2:19PM

I realize that it's only to rile up the angry white dudes, but that's the sort of boring argument that a precocious junior high student would make.

It's in the chapter after the "does the 2nd amendment mean I can have nuclear weapons" argument.

[***M***]

,,,Gasp Donnie!!!,,,

Here is a short bio of one of the founders of the ,,,gasp,,,progressive Rockwood Leadership Institute!!!

Gasp!!! He might have even tried to subvert some of your favorite Fortune 500 companies!!!!

Robert Gass, Ed.D, Co-Founder
Robert Gass is a Co-Founder of Social Transformation Project and is widely known and highly regarded for his work in leadership development and organizational change over the last 30 years. He has worked as an executive coach and organizational consultant to Fortune 500 companies, nonprofits, and foundations, and offered seminars to more than 100,000 individuals at universities, education centers, and conferences around the world.

[fish]

Posted by: scenes | 17 October 2018 at 02:42 PM

I realize that it's only to rile up the angry white dudes, but that's the sort of boring argument that a precocious junior high student would make.

.....not so precocious! More akin to random neurons firing in dugsKKKis soft old head. Someone should check on him! His life might be flashing before him at the keyboard!

[George Rebane]

scenes 239pm - Good argument. I would just point out that socialism of the fascistic bent doesn't have to 'own' an enterprise, but only to control it - what it can sell, to whom, and for what price. Our utilities come pretty close to that kind of enterprise controlled by the collective - i.e. government.

[scenes]

GeorgeR@3:30PM

It seems to me that the presence of monopoly (or near-monopoly) tends to give a more socialistic flavor to an enterprise.

In the final analysis, is Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control any less a socialist enterprise than PGE?

It is interesting to think about creeping socialism in the case of increasing control. It's simplest to just look at the flow of funds and percentage of GDP that is government, but that's only a small part of the picture (perhaps from WWII on?). How many man minutes per day in large companies are spent on government regulations of a thousand types (financial, HR, safety, .gov customer demands, intellectual property, environmental, etc. etc.) and to what extent does .gov bend the company to it's will?

[George Rebane]

scenes 406pm - While L-M is definitely a corporatist organization, it is less a part of a socialist schema because it can and does sell other products of non-DoD customers many of whom are foreign. Also, L-M can liquidate itself and decide to go into other lines of business, PGE cannot.

[Don Bessee]

Aint nothin' but a brownshirt socialist pattern -

Stark has a history of aggressive behavior when tracking Republicans. Last year he was arrested, and later convicted, for disorderly conduct in Virginia as he attempted to cover Republican gubernatorial candidate Ed Gillespie, according to the Washington Post. Stark was similarly arrested back in March after pushing a female staffer for Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke to the floor and was charged with simple assault by U.S. Capitol Police.

https://freebeacon.com/politics/dem-operative-arrested-in-nevada-after-assaulting-female-gop-staffer/

;-)

[Account Deleted]

"and damn that fascist Social Security, which is socialism for seniors."
Actually SS applies to everyone now. Lots of kids get SS checks.
The entire program is broke. If a private company 'invested' your money in the way that SS did and does, the lot of them would be in prison.
SS needs to be ended by simply letting folks know that in a certain date - such as next year, SS will no longer be taking money from anyone who has not yet started in the SS system. The fed debt increase will be enormous for a while, as the payouts will have to continue without any new money coming in, but at least we will be rid of this crooked scheme.

[Don Bessee]

This reeks of it -

In a combative exchange at a hearing Friday in Washington, D.C., a federal judge unabashedly accused career State Department officials of lying and signing "clearly false" affidavits to derail a series of lawsuits seeking information about former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email server and her handling of the 2012 terrorist attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.
U.S. District Court Judge Royce Lamberth said he was "shocked" and "dumbfounded" when he learned that the Department of Justice's Inspector General (IG) had granted immunity to former Clinton chief of staff Cheryl Mills during its investigation into the use of Clinton's server, according to a court transcript of his remarks.

"I had myself found that Cheryl Mills had committed perjury and lied under oath in a published opinion I had issued in a Judicial Watch case where I found her unworthy of belief, and I was quite shocked to find out she had been given immunity in — by the Justice Department in the Hillary Clinton email case," Lamberth said during Friday's hearing.

The DOJ IG, Michael Horowitz, noted in his report that it was "inconsistent with typical investigative strategy" for the FBI to allow Mills to sit in during the agency's interview of Clinton during the email probe, given that classified information traveled through Mills' personal email account. "[T]here are serious potential ramifications when one witness attends another witness’interview," the IG wrote.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state-department-provided-clearly-false-statements-to-derail-hillary-clinton-doc-requests-federal-judge-says

;-)

[Walt]

Soros and his minions... Now attacking Conservatives running for office. You Proggys sure know how to pick'm. Is it not fascism yet?
proggy the new "brown shirt"?

" Two Minnesota GOP candidates are reeling from what they say are politically-motivated verbal and physical assaults on the campaign trail.

State Rep. Sarah Anderson says that she was attacked Sunday as she left her home to knock on doors. She approached a man who had been kicking over campaign signs.

CBS reported:

“I said, ‘You can’t do this!’ And he said, ‘Yes, I can, I’m an anarchist! I can do whatever I want!’ And I said, ‘No, you can’t, that’s not your property,'” Anderson said.

Anderson tried unsuccessfully to videotape the encounter as the man backed her into the street, swearing.

“And he charged at me again, and he said, ‘Go kill yourself,’ and I end up stepping here and there’s traffic coming.”

https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/17/alleged-assaults-minnesota-gop-candidates/

Yes Lefties,, this is the side YOU vote with. Think about that.

[Don Bessee]

Talk about a flaming crater of a narrative fail that spewed herself with shrapnel -

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/17/hree-percent-of-elizabeth-warrens-dna-from-ancestor-who-rounded-up-cherokees-for-trail-of-tears/

;-)

[Don Bessee]

And the beat downs go on....

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/soros-backed-group-fires-operative-after-arrest-over-alleged-battery-against-gop-campaign-manager

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/10/17/professor-offers-extra-credit-students-who-attend-georgia-democrat-abrams-campaign-event

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state-department-provided-clearly-false-statements-to-derail-hillary-clinton-doc-requests-federal-judge-says

;-)

[Bonnie McGuire]

Whenever I think about today's political problems I always remember the photo of President FD Roosevelt and Stalin sitting on the deck of a ship after WW II. That and the President Clinton administration considering China the most favored nation. We helped both to do better financially by downing communism and encouraging capitalism. Russia claimed to have some business problems for awhile....After all, their socialist revolution slaughtered most individuals with business talent. What became ridiculous was our government's recent claim we were in debt to China. Hahaha...its so darned funny that businessman President Trump knows the problem and is reversing the cause.