Coming Apart and the Beltway Bubble (updated 4dec18)

George Rebane

SecDef Mattis was interviewed yesterday by FN’s Bret Baier at the Reagan National Defense Forum.  This is an annual get together of the country’s important people to talk about, well, national defense.  I’m a fan of Gen Mattis (even though he is a gyrene) and think he’s done a good job at the DoD.  But when the interview turned to how poorly Americans get along with each other today, and the Right/Left polarization, Mattis’ response left me slack-jawed.  I had to rewind the DVR and listen to his quote a couple more times to be sure I heard it right.

The general’s response was a version of Rodney King’s ‘Why can’t we just all get along?’  He didn’t think that there lay any real barriers for the country reuniting into a functional form again because, after all, we are still all Americans, and as a country “we probably don’t have big differences about where we want to go ultimately.”  What??!!

That is precisely the reason we have pulled apart – the ‘ultimate’ directions for the country, as seen by our Left and Right, are diametric and could not be more different.  SecDef Mattis is a very connected man in the Washington nomenklatura.  He talks to all the big shakers and movers within the beltway and the think tanks that circle the capital.  Is that his takeaway from his many conversations, that 21^st century Americans are pretty much united in “where we want to go ultimately”?  Is it not clear to those within the DC bubble that the Left seeks a weakened America – culturally fractured with an unassimilated population – that is more than ready to join a post-national global union?  And is it not equally clear to them that the Right wants to preserve the Westphalian world order of sovereign-nation states in which America remains an economically strong hegemon, an order in which less developed nations can continue the post-war progress to improve their citizens’ quality of life?  Apparently not.

To me it appears that these high and mighty elites (especially the Republicans) should get out into the hustings more often.  There they would see the spread of rot from the already socialist soiled urban centers into the country’s heartland smaller communities.  There they would witness the polarization first hand as progressives take over formerly pristine towns and counties, and immediately harbinger the new world order in those invaded microcosms.  They should read the local papers and blogs where the stark divisions in values, traditions, mores, and the delivery of government clash daily.

I believe the country’s Left is well aware of its penetration of these conservative redoubts, but our national Right doesn’t seem to have a clue about who and what they are up against by spouting well-meaning yet ignorant pabulum from national pulpits.

A litmus test of all this is the attack on the First Amendment (and the Second which makes the First possible) by the local lefties.  Free speech has always been the first target of the proto-autocrats.  And on the local level this assault is most visible.  Today’s progressives do not hesitate to attack and work to silence every viewpoint which is counter to their carefully forged narrative.  They use to great advantage the Right’s open presentation of its ideological tenets, skewing them (a la Alinsky) to be the current expressions of historically hateful regimes.  But the main thrust is always to silence those remaining voices that explain the current state of affairs and sound the alarm to those who still believe in continuing the exceptionalism of a constitutional America.

(As a close-to-home illustration of all this I invite your attention to the debate in our local left-leaning newspaper along with the blogs and FB pages of our leftwing trumpets.  For example, we conservetarians have no problem in detailing our ideological tenets – I offer the example of RR – but try as you may, you will not get anyone from the Left to reciprocate with more substance than shibboleths such as promoting ‘social justice’, the definition of which no one can give.  Along with that practice is the profuse labeling of the Left’s enemies as ‘racist’, ‘hard right’, ‘alt-right’, ‘Nazis’, along with '-phobics' of all hues, again without being able to connect the so-labeled individual to any evidence that justifies the label.  Their perpetual repeating of such accusations has successfully convinced their lightly-read constituencies, those who seek ever more abundant handouts and wealth redistribution from an all-enveloping government.  I challenge readers to find where and how the Right attempts to silence the voices of the Left.)

[4dec18 update]  An important and welcome contribution to the comment stream that counters my above commentary comes from RR reader and commenter Steven Frisch, a leading local voice of the Left.  I respond to his 821am below with my 1015am which I have decided to addend to this post.  Mr Frisch begins with, “I sincerely conten(d) that the entire "Great Divide" frame is a myth, designed by reactionary media actors and political movement leaders to polarize people of seemingly different political philosophies, …”

re Steven Frisch 821am - A much appreciated comment indeed Mr Frisch. I welcome it as another of these periodic exemplars from the Left that confirms what some very sober political scientists, historians, sociologists, and behavioral economists have been observing for the last few decades - BTW, all of them vigorously disavowed by the Left to a degree that in recent years some have even been prevented from speaking on college campuses by hyper-progressive (aka 'snowflake') students and administrations.

What's most remarkable is how the Left adamantly ignores all of these recognized observers and students of the human condition. If an argument doesn't fit the Left's narrative (eg. viz Mr Frisch), it doesn't exist or have a legitimate voice in the debate.

Among the many ignored are the works of Allan Bloom (1987), Robert Bork (1996), Charles Murray (2012), and most recently Jonah Goldberg (2018). And the stark differences that today divide us are raisons d'etre of established organizations such as La Raza and MALDEF, with now much more virulent leftwing organizations coming out of the muck in response to organize the migrant invasion from the south.

In a more formal sense, publications such as 'The Libertarian Mind', 'The Conservatarian Manifesto', and 'The Progressive Manifesto' delineate and highlight our diametrically distant ideological desiderata. And just out, 'The Diversity Delusion' (2018) by Heather MacDonald details how the seams of our common culture are ripping at an ever-greater rate. The shared values that Mr Frisch references come in two overwhelmingly distinct flavors, and are by no means shared nationwide. What little intersection that today remains in our values (and none in our worldview) has negligible adhesive power.

An endowed fellow of the Manhattan Institute, with degrees from Yale, Cambridge, and Stanford, Ms MacDonald predicts a high likelihood of armed conflict in America within five years. Other than that, everything is hunky-dory.

As a coda to my response I draw your attention to the glaring specifics of Mr Frisch’s “things that bind humans together”; these are nothing but generalized attributes used, not to foster the present world order of sovereign nation-states (e.g. a sovereign and strong America), but to promote globalism in its final form.  Going into the detailed expansion of each attribute – “cognition, communication, self preservation, emotion, procreation, myth, spiritualism, rationalism, universalism, the desire to create order and structure, the creation of family and peer groups, the desire to create society for mutual benefit” – would instantly reveal the chasm between the global collectivist (e.g. Steven Frisch) and the proponent of a capitalist Westphalian world order (e.g. George Rebane).

And true to the Left’s ever-present Alinsky algorithm for argumentation (accuse the other of what you do), Mr Frisch mischaracterizes the Great Divide, as presented in these pages and by the cited authors, as one “that separates us from other human actors,, or from each other within our own society by age, gender or class, is in reality a strategy to separate people and create a power center or power dynamic that creates advantage.”  In short, Mr Frisch claims that it is the Right that fosters these characteristic parameters of identity politics with which the Left's media outlets and education industry now bathe the country, and for which there is no evidence of division along such lines coming from the Right - Alinsky par excellence.

Comments

[Russ]

Why would conservative try to silence the progressive left, they are clearly the best spokesperson for their crazy ideas and stupid statements.

[Todd Juvinall]

But they have the education system and have learned to make little people think the way they want. Just like hose Stalinist schools in the USSR all the way until they imploded in 1991.

[Bill Tozer]

All censorship of speech comes from the Left. I don’t want to censor anybody and the Leftinistas want to censor everything and everybody that does not agree with their bunghole ideas. I haven’t noticed the Right chasing folks out of restaurants or shouting down speaker on college campuses or showing up bullhorns at people’s homes because they disagree (not Ike) hat someone sad or thinks. It all coming from one side of the street and it’s not the sunny side.

https://m.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343/1490238007776898/?type=3&source=48

[Paul Emery]

Todd writes "they have the educational systems"

I assume the "they" is the left. How do you propose to change this? Is this something Trump should pursue?

[Scott O]

from Paul - "Todd writes "they have the educational systems"
I assume the "they" is the left. How do you propose to change this? Is this something Trump should pursue?
Paul, this has been covered many, many times before here on George's blog. You obviously don't pay much attention or you just can't retain information.

[Russ]

Paul@08:05 PM

Betsy DeVos, Trump Sec of Education is working for change. Here is how the left views the changes The Trump Administration’s Slow But Steady Undoing of the Department of Education. Good, we need to undo it. Did you know math is racist, and the progressive solution is Woman's Math, Black Math, Latino Math? Same with Physics. The progressive wants female physics as opposed to male physics. There is only one physics. Saw Heather Mac Donald on Life Liberty and Levin this evening on Fox News and she recommends that alums just stop funding our universities as they no longer teach knowledge but focusing on race and gender equity, while China and Russia are only interested in the best and brightest regardless of gender. They are not spending millions to ensure 50-50 equity in math and physic classes.

[Paul Emery]

Well Scott if you're asking for change it's only reasonable to ask how that change should be enabled, Duh Sorry that's too much for you.

[Scott O]

from Paul - "Well Scott if you're asking for change it's only reasonable to ask how that change should be enabled, Duh Sorry that's too much for you."
As George would say - how many laps around the barn are we supposed to go with that topic?

[scenes]

"Well Scott if you're asking for change it's only reasonable to ask how that change should be enabled,"

lol. Captain Crickets speaks.

It seems to me that the folks who are dead set on changing things should be the ones who justify it all.

If you are pushing for 57 genders, a collapse of immigration limitation/control, free college, free medical care, increasing and eventually total restriction on firearms, hate speech laws (.gov or commercial), etc. the obligation is sort of up to you. About the only right wing equivalent is pushing the limits on the valuing of human life after conception by a few conservative subgroups.

The thing is, the KVMR hive mind is only interested in Stormy, Russian 'influence' (which is dwarfed by US election influence on others), Trump's tweet o' the day, and arguing with angry old white men about these things. If you fought for policy in some sort of sane and structured way rather than 'boxing' with Todd, I'd fall off my barstool. Fun behavior at 15, embarrassing at 70.

Russ@9:37pm

Good point on the Chinese and Russians, although they have their own issues. The Chinese, although monolithic to outsiders, appear to have issues with building trust networks and the Russians are still working their way through a remarkable change in their country in a short time period. In addition the Russkies are a smaller country now, still needs widespread modernizing, and have a set of social problems. I wish them luck.

Lacking tech revolutions (strong AI? unlimited energy?), evolution of groups will put paid to the less survivable societies. At some point, the Left and the emerging Blue Mob will likely put the West into the same memory hole as the Byzantines. The world will continue to rotate and at least a few historians will remember us. It's hard to escape the primacy of having strong group identity.

[Bill Tozer]

Although I disagree with the author that Senate hearings will accomplish anything, the rest of the article is spot on and spot on the topic.

“We suspected that we would find decreasing numbers of Americans well-versed in our nation’s most important principles and young people less patriotic than the generations that came before, but we were totally unprepared for what our national survey reveals: an epidemic of anti-Americanism,” stated FLAG founder Nick Adams.

“Adams is naive. The opposite of anti-Americanism is pro-globalism, and it’s time Americans (who still want to be Americans) realize the ongoing bastardization of traditions, morals, law, language, culture, and borders — along with the unconscionable student data collection taking place in America’s classrooms — is all part of the same agenda. One cannot make a globalist omelet without breaking nationalist eggs, and nothing is more important than making sure America’s youth are ready to “transition” from being proudly American to being “citizens of the world.”

https://patriotpost.us/articles/59787-teaching-americans-to-despise-america?fbclid=IwAR3TCXjDuKVKLLJFNikm8QZWY7vIF--bl-1B8ip6WzE8zqID-FzeC-wp7yw

[***M***]

,,,listening to President Bush rememberances yesterday I heard that the Republicans were the ‘’’reason we pulled apart’’’. It happened when Bush raised taxes after getting elected with his ‘’’read my lips, no new taxes’’’ meme. The result was the Republican Party fractured into the wacky right and the regular right.

Bush also spoke of a ‘’’kinder, gentler’’’ nation. Contrast that with the A-hole-in-Chief we have today.

[Paul Emery]

Scenes writes or the "emerging Blue Mob". Gosh and Golly, you've got The Orange Knight that is supposed to lead the way to a glorious future by vanquishing the commies and socialists. He suffered a setback in the midterms though but with intellects like the Circle of Jerks on his side it should be no problem.

So why so gloomy scenes? You must have a plan in mind that you haven't shared on these pages.

[Todd Juvinall]

Looks like those French peasants are looking for the guillotine to rid themselves of the King and court again. This is what happens when the socialists take charge and implement their policies.

[Gregory]

Punchy 805pm
"Todd writes "they have the educational systems"

I assume the "they" is the left. How do you propose to change this? Is this something Trump should pursue?"

A good start is the Janus decision which, when implemented, will wean Dem governmental organizations from union financing and control.

At the moment, unions in California are apparently ignoring it.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 December 2018 at 09:33 AM

Gosh and Golly, you've got The Orange Knight that is supposed to lead the way to a glorious future by vanquishing the commies and socialists. He suffered a setback in the midterms though but with intellects like the Circle of Jerks on his side it should be no problem.

It's entertaining Punch to see you win so poorly! Most here had no serious belief that the republicans were going to make any progress in California. Two years ago I thought the republicans were dead as a political force in California ….going the way of the Whigs"…I believe is the phrase I used and used publicly in this forum. I also thought that this trend would continue in urban areas and along the coasts (I don't think it will extend to the executive branch though…..you guys aren't there yet!).

It's not up to us to reconstitute the Republican Party Punch. It's up to you and your vanguard of progressive democrats to now govern effectively. In this I wish you bonne chance!

PS: Lose the "Gosh and Golly"! It makes you sound like a retard…...

[Paul Emery]

Using language easy to understand for the circle of jerks. Caught your attention.

Gosh and dolli Todd was just bragging about a red wave. Are you saying that didn't include California?

[Gregory]

"Using language easy to understand for the circle of jerks. Caught your attention."

Caught my attention, too. "Circle of jerks" is out of bounds, below the belt. Especially since you're no smarter or better educated than the "circle" you're denigrating.

[Paul Emery]

Gregory

Would you like to list the various descriptos I and my friends have been called on this blog? How is "circle of jerks" any different than being called Communists, Nazi's, Perverts, on and on and on.

[George Rebane]

“Circle of Jerks” – It must be tough to express your pique with limited language when attempting to denigrate your political opposites. From the Right we have no trouble just calling members of various collectivist hues by labels which are correct and accurate depending on the person(s) – progressive, liberal, antifa, leftwing, far left, woke, socialist, communist, …, evinced practices, all under the Democrat Party banner. (I left out ‘snowflakes’, the accurate label for emotionally brittle leftwingers who require trigger warnings, accessible safe places, and other psychologically succoring dispensations when out in mixed and un-woke company.) However, such labeling is considered by most on the Left as name calling, ad hominems if you please. Why? Deep inside they know if they identified with any of these in the public square, they may not be well received by those still trying to make up their minds. So they’d rather their ideology remain in mufti as they dispense to their audiences rants of redistributionist rage and precepts of social justice.

Those on the Right are immune to being correctly identified as conservatives, libertarians, conservetarians, Tea Partiers, bible thumpers, gun lovers, constitutionalists, … as their proudly declared and publicly displayed affinities warrant. But that no longer satisfies the Left which has had to lower the bar, and pin wholesale on their ideological opposites labels such as racist, Nazi, KKK, ‘white nationalist’, ‘irredeemable deplorables’, … when they can present no evidence that warrants those labels, even if only some of them could muster correct definitions. Circle of Jerks indeed.

[Paul Emery]

George

How about calling those who support a womans right to choose "Baby Killers"

Not a peep from you when that is used and it has been many times.

[Walt]

Paul whining about "circle of jerks"?
Yaa,,, truth usually stings when applied to an open wound.

Paul has yet to even state just what despicable thing Trump has done to harm the nation. All he has done, is UNDO the damage done by LIBS ,and LIB ideals.
Trump sure proved "O" and Co. LIARS. "Oh.. We can't do that,, Those jobs are long gone, and ain't coming back." Those jobs started heading home the day after Trump won the election. Now more jobs than workers to fill them.
"We can't drill our way out of the oil shortage".. We sure as hell did, despite "O" and the LIBS efforts to kill them.
Yup, even COAL has dug itself out of the grave "O" tried to put it in.. Think those coal miners voted LIB?

Around here, only the likes of Paul will vote to cut his own throat.

[Gregory]

George, there's more baggage with "Circle of Jerks"... it's associated with "circle jerk", a group masturbatory practice.

Paul, I'm not responsible for the name calling you're decrying. Try to keep a focus. But there are socialists, communists perverts and Nazis in reality. There is no "Circle of jerks"; it is a term that is purely derogatory.

[Gregory]

Punchy 204pm

Regarding "baby killers", while harsh, it is descriptive. "Choice" in this case does result in the killing of babies, legally sanctioned.

[Paul Emery]

"Baby Killers" was used to describe people like me Gregory who believe there is an appropriate timeline for a woman to decide.

How about being called a Pervert because I support gay marriage?

[Paul Emery]

Gregory

"Circle of Jerks" means just what it says. "Jerks" refers to behavior and circle is used as in "circle of friends".

Are you saying that it's not ok to call someone a jerk?

Also, what's the justification under the Rebane Doctrine for calling me "Punchy"?

[Walt]

Well,, "baby killer" is exactly what happens Paul, is it not?
You support ending a life. An innocent life. At at the same time, decry those who support the death penalty, for those who REALLY deserve it. The vermin and scum of humanity. But NOOOoo.. They have a right to live.
Those are some really twisted thought processes.
Yup kill the unborn, and demand others pay for it. I have no problem buying the bullet that puts a rabid dog down.

[Don Bessee]

Talk about disingenuous bs @230. You clearly think its clever to allude to the term as pointed out by Gregory. No one is so naïve as to buy your 230.

;-)

[Paul Emery]

Case in point to illustrate my argument is Walt. See above. Do you support day after pills Walt? Ted Cruz believes they kill babies.

[George Rebane]

Just so some of you don't think I just got off the boat from Estonia; I was in the Army ten years - active plus reserves - and could compose quite a serviceable dictionary of barracks language not suitable for polite company. Nevertheless, I appreciate tutelage from whatever quarter it comes.

And thanks for the clarification Paul. Nevertheless, I do appreciate its intended oblique semantic. Rebane Doctrine recommends the churchillian approach when a situation demands pejorative language. However, commenting in these pages does not require the adoption of or adherence to any part of Rebane Doctrine, it is just a self-serving label under which I collect the more topical and timely tenets that extend my posted credo.

[Paul Emery]

Here's more from the Republican posaition on contraception:

Is this what you believe Walt?

Many conservatives, including former presidential candidates Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum, have claimed that emergency contraception causes abortions by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus. They argue that a fertilized egg is essentially a person, the same logic that is used to lobby for fetal personhood laws.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/11/ted-cruz-birth-control_n_4084857.html

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 December 2018 at 12:39 PM

Go ahead Punch and use "Gosh and Golly" frankly other than my single warning I'm perfectly OK when you sound the fool.

[Paul Emery]

You've got a dirty mind Don. Circle of Jerks means just what it says. The rest is your imagination. Thanks for sharing your inner thoughts Don.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 December 2018 at 02:30 PM

I'm perfectly fine with "Circle of Jerks" Punchy….frankly it's about the only decent insult that you proggie nitwits have come up with in the last five years!

You should probably send Frisch a thank you card for thinking it up!

[Paul Emery]

Shucks and Yucks Fish for your deep thinking on this matter

[Walt]

Paul,,, you can be one stupid idiot. (well usually you are for the most part)
The "day after" pill STOPS CONCEPTION.. Now.. DO you understand the meaning of that?
Keep living up to your well placed nick-name. "Ponytail of ignorance" You now own it.

[Gregory]

Now, Punch 230pm, you've described yourself as a boxer multiple times. And what you do here is throw punches.
You've also described my debate style as standing firm and taking punches while punching back.

Is abortion not the killing of a baby?

You are being a jerk at the moment.

[Walt]

There goes Paul again,,, can't use his own words.. Gotta cut and paste what someone else burned gray matter on.

[Paul Emery]

Then why is it opposed by the above mentioned Republicans Walt? Day after is too late for them.

"Romney Argued That Morning-After Pills “Cause Abortions.”

“In July, Romney vetoed a bill to expand the use of the morning-after pills by requiring hospitals to offer them to rape victims and requiring pharmacists to dispense them without prescriptions. At the time, the governor embraced opponents’ argument that the pills not only prevent pregnancies, but cause abortions. The Legislature overrode the veto in September.” [“Romney signs bill on family planning,” Boston Globe,

https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/pressroom/mitt-romney-opponent-womens-contraception-fundraises-makers

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 December 2018 at 02:49 PM

Why am I not surprised that you felt that this matter merited "deep thinking"?

[Paul Emery]

I applauded you on your mature insight Fish. Keep up the good work and contribution to the intellectual balance of this blog. You are Snappy and Yappy

[Walt]

You support killing innocent lives Paul. I don't.
You support keeping killers living. I don't.

So when some LIB brat gets snuffed in a riot he/she/it chose to participate in, just consider it a post birth abortion.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 December 2018 at 03:01 PM

Oh C-Nile keeping it fresh just like last week eh? Well Gosh and Golly!

[Bill Tozer]

“Would you like to list the various descriptons I and my friends have been called on this blog?”

Ok, please list your friends on THIS blog that have been name called. M? Mr. Koyote? Robert Cross? Ah, the ole “we”. Sounds exactly like His Lardship using the tactic he resorts to include his imaginary friends to make it appear that many agree with his solitary pathetic self. You and what army?

Fetus: unborn child. Perhaps killing unborn children or the premeditated killing ofunborn babies is more precise than the abbreviated baby killers. Baby killers was the favorite name used by the dope smoking Leftinistas and anti-American mob for Nam Vets. Never forget.

https://m.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.254420818025296/1484894868311212/?type=3&source=48

[scenes]

Paul sagely states: '"Baby Killers" was used to describe people like me Gregory who believe there is an appropriate timeline for a woman to decide.'

Well, it is a 'baby' and they are 'killing' it. The question becomes at what point does a baby accrue some form of legal rights. (Let's forget the conundrum of a third party murdering a fetus by injuring/killing the mother at the same point that that mother may still kill the child).

So what should the rules be? Personally, I'm willing to accept that unborn children have varying value depending on their development, but not everybody here would agree. It's a good argument. Typically, this is all just used as a wedge issue since the rules rarely really change, but darn it sounds good waving signs about how TRUMP IS GONNA STEAL YUR RIGHTS.

So Paul, what should abortion rules be? You should be able to state it in 3-4 sentences so it certainly won't wear out your typing fingers. Please accept a follow up question for clarification.

Be careful how you answer. The KVMR hive mind might not like it.

[Walt]

But no worries Paul, those rooms where the unborn never survive will stay busy, and open for business. Your side won that fight. So be happy.
Now with any luck, OUR execution chambers will get more business with the new SCOTUS putting in an express lane.( one can only hope)
The condemned are getting to choose the method of their demise.
Got a fear of needles? Ol' Sparky will give you one last ride.
A buck fifty in lead and gunpowder will do nicely,,
And for the old dope smoker,, a measure of hemp rope, will help stretch you out.
But nope,, you want to keep feeding and housing them till they die of old age.

[Todd Juvinall]

Paul Emery is doing his best Orwell again eh. Circle of jerks is a well known phrase with a well known and accepted meaning. But now that he is caught in the world of porn he is trying to wiggle out of it. Sorry, we know exactly what you mean.

Funny how the left coddles the serial killers and spends so much legal time and other peoples money to keep that human detritus alive while tossing millions of little babies into the arms of the now-jailed doctor of death. You cannot make up the tortured minds of people like Paul Emery.

[Bill Tozer]

This is one of those typical days when, no matter what the topic, Punchy wakes up and lets us all know what he is offended about today....and that must be the topic number one topic of import, be it Melania’s choice of footwear or a stenciled sign. Nothing else matters in the big wide world. It’s all about Punchy and nothing else. At least M hides behind,”Its for the children”. Which children? The murdered ones or the unmurdered ones?
—————————

What I find rather puzzling is how many of Punchy’s friends find the whole notion of The Great Divide a conspiracy theory hatched and spread by Dr. Rebane. They just don’t see it, don’t hear about it, don’t believe it. “None of my friends believe in such a thing as The Great Divide.”

Makes them so upset they want a piece of ewe.
———————
Walt

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101882681548356&set=gm.520931671755670&type=3&theater&ifg=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2007359056023639&set=a.283690475057181&type=3&theater&ifg=1

[Paul Emery]

I think 12 weeks Scenes with the exception of carefully defined medical reasons.

[Paul Emery]

What is your number Scenes?

[George Rebane]

Abortion - when a sperm impales a receptive ovum the product is a zygote - a fertilized female egg that soon thereafter attaches to the wall of the uterus. That egg then starts a process of specialized cell division, which collection of cells is called a human embryo that quickly starts looking like a baby. By clinical convention, an 8-week-old embryo is renamed 'fetus', which label it carries until it exits the womb either naturally or by other means such as being induced or by trauma. So aborting this sequence after fertilization is called abortion until it becomes pre-partum murder, most certainly after the fetus is considered 'viable' - having a high probability of survival outside the womb. But then, we all know this, and the argument of when the developing embryo cum fetus is killed ambiguates the definition of abortion and when it should be permitted by law.

[Walt]

Back to the beltway. (Paul can hand out gift certificates for trips to (un)Planned Parenthood. The law says he can.)
Muller might have splain'n to do.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/03/jerome-corsi-robert-mueller-ethics/
"Conservative author Jerome Corsi filed a criminal and ethics complaint against special counsel Robert Mueller on Monday, accusing prosecutors of trying to force him into giving “false testimony” against President Donald Trump and GOP operative Roger Stone."

Muller doesn't want then to just "sing",, he wants the to compose and construct.

So, does this make two different court actions against the D.C inquisitioner?

[Paul Emery]

What is your inclination as to that number George as to when it should be permitted by law?

[George Boardman]

The only funny abortion joke I've ever heard:

A priest, minister and rabbi are invited to address a forum on the topic, "When does life begin?"

The priest gets up and says: "Life begins at conception."

The minister gets up and says: "Life begins at birth."

The rabbi gets up and says: "Life begins when the dog dies and the children leave home."

[Walt]

Emery wants everyone to "state their position" yet never states his own, in his own words.
You have been "leaning forward" way to long Emery.(and way too bent over) You know, the typical Proggy "position".

[Paul Emery]

Walt

I did state my position Walt. Here it is again. What is your position on the number of weeks for legal abortion?

"I think 12 weeks Scenes with the exception of carefully defined medical reasons. "

[Bill Tozer]

Good one Boardman.
—————————————
Went back and reread the post “Coming Apart And The Beltway Bubble” again just to make sure I stayed on topic or what the topic is.

“To me it appears that these high and mighty elites (especially the Republicans) should get out into the hustings more often. There they would see the spread of rot from the already socialist soiled urban centers into the country’s heartland smaller communities. There they would witness the polarization first hand as progressives take over formerly pristine towns and counties, and immediately harbinger the new world order in those invaded microcosms. They should read the local papers and blogs where the stark divisions in values, traditions, mores, and the delivery of government clash daily.”

[Bill sez: thus Trump...let’s comtinue]

“I believe the country’s Left is well aware of its penetration of these conservative redoubts, but our national Right doesn’t seem to have a clue about who and what they are up against by spouting well-meaning yet ignorant pabulum from national pulpits.

“A litmus test of all this is the attack on the First Amendment (and the Second which makes the First possible) by the local lefties. Free speech has always been the first target of the proto-autocrats. And on the local level this assault is most visible. Today’s progressives do not hesitate to attack and work to silence every viewpoint which is counter to their carefully forged narrative. They use to great advantage the Right’s..” Quote unquote——Dr. Rebane

A moderate “blue dog” Democrat cannot win a national election in the future in today’s climate. The Scoop Jackson Democrat is relegated to the dustbin of history. Maybe a gun toting pro-life ‘one’-off’ like Doug Jones in Alabama against an even worse Roy Moore in some senate race, but not on a national level. The Left claims they want a “moderate” R to be the R’s nominee......someone like a Bob Dole or Flake or McCain or Romney or Jeb who folds like a cheat suit and go along only to get along and believe they other side operates in good faith as well. Good fait? Nothing could be further than the truth.

What the Leftinistas do not realize is that they have little say in the R’s nominee outside of a Flake or McCain. Lack of total control drives them batty. Nuts, I tell ya, drives them nuts. Ironically,their neeed for total control totally controls them. (We have a fine example who posts here daily.) They can never satisfy there insatiable hunger for more and more control, thus reaching deep into the recesses of another’s hidden thoughts for absolute domination and supremacy over any and all opposition. Opposing thoughts and points of views is a what they consider a threat. And threats must be eviscerated, even while with their mouths they seek common ground, lol.

“Such moves can reasonably be interpreted as victories for those who wish (openly, in some cases) to narrow the boundaries of what constitutes permissible speech to the point where right-of-center expression is no longer acceptable in major forums.”

http://thefederalist.com/2018/12/03/furor-bans-speech-codes-not-just-twitter/

[Walt]

So Paul picks a number out of his,, uh,,, back end. No real reason, other than "someone" did. The unborn will still be just as dead.

So have at it Paul, hand out those "free trips". A great gift for the holidays,,,, right? Show your support for (U)PP.

Tell the youg'ns they can have all the "fun" they like, and if an undesired "squatter" happens to take up residence, just evict the little bastard. ( proper terminology)
The world according to Emery.

[scenes]

"I think 12 weeks Scenes with the exception of carefully defined medical reasons."

Is that after conception or before birth? I'm assuming you mean abortion on demand up to 12 weeks. I don't hate that idea.

I think it's reasonable to kill any age fetus if the mother's life is at risk, so I'll remove that from the table.

So you are saying that it should be illegal after that? Should the mother go to jail? be fined? Then there is the problem of rape and underage mothers. You need a few more details in your law.

An interesting side question is whether you think men should vote on womens' abortion rights. I'm assuming that you are saying yes.

Personally, I'm rather attracted to a viability test. 24 weeks? That's not an uncommon legal benchmark. I haven't run into a convincing timeline that isn't simply viability *or* moment of conception.

Any other takers here?

[George Rebane]

'Abortion and the Two-Bodies Problem'
https://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/10/abortion-and-the-two-bodies-problem.html

[Paul Emery]

What is your number Walt. I gave you mine. I think 12 weeks is a reasonable time to allow a woman the right to choose.
What are your ideas on the matter Walt?

[Paul Emery]

After conception scenes.

[scenes]

"I think 12 weeks is a reasonable time to allow a woman the right to choose."

So at 13 weeks the mother has committed a crime? What is a reasonable penalty?

[Walt]

My "numbers" are irrelevant. I'm not a baby killer. ALL the children I did my part to conceive didn't "disappear" due to "inconvenience".

So you don't believe in personal responsibility (another LIB trait)
Just get rid of the problem(child) and make sure someone else pick up the bill for bad choices one made.(LIB philosophy)
Your batting a thousand there Paul.

[Scott O]

This is what Paul thinks is 'reasonable' to kill:
https://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-12-weeks
It's human life, Paul - you believe it's 'reasonable' to kill an innocent human being.
Got it.

[Bill Tozer]

“Any other takers here”—-Scenes

12 weeks is a non starter for the Left. That’s the first trimester. All the wailing and cacophony over Republicans wanting to send poor women into the back allies for abortions (millions of women will DIE on the streets if Kavanaugh is confirmed per Di-Wi).....all the conversations have revoled around the third trimester. And “late term” abortions which means getting close to partial birth abortions. 12 weeks is DOA if you want to be a card caring Leftist.

The National Organization of Offended Opressed and Outraged Women say males cannot discuss the issue because they don’t have a uterus. Then they say you don’t need a uterus to be a woman. Before you fellows continue this topic, may I suggest you all self identify as another gender. Carry on.

https://m.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343/1492368837563815/?type=3&source=48

There. Fixed that.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101887720355546&set=gm.524033321445505&type=3&theater

[Paul Emery]

Well thanks for the response Walt. Seems like you believe abortion should be illegal at any stage of pregnancy. Does that include day after pills?

What should be the penalty to the woman and abortion provider?

Scenes
Reasonable penalty scenes? It seems that the abortion provider for an abortion after the time limit should be penalized as they are today for illegal abortions. Obviously there would be a doctors documentation that the abortion was within legal time limits. A doctor could have their license taken away and some kind of criminal penalty. Don't have a firm thought on details. What is it today?

[Walt]

The beltway has a speed bump. And from out of the dark comes a Lefty who ISN'T a rabid ECO bastard. And the rest of the dark side tribe is blind with rage.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/03/democrats-joe-manchin-energy-record/

Manchin ain't stupid. He votes against coal and fresh coal job paychecks, he knows his goose is cooked.

[Walt]

Screw your questions Paul, you NEVER answer any.
And you go right into your Jim Acosta routine.
I speak with my own mind. Something you lack the ability to do.

[Paul Emery]

Well that's my view Bill. Never claimed or aspired to be a card carrying leftist. What's your view on the matter?

[Walt]

"Never claimed or aspired to be a card carrying leftist"
Well well.. the six O clock funnies is a few minutes early!
Yet your as Progressive, needle bending LEFT as they come.
Your so damned Left, you need a kickstand to keep from falling over.

[Scott O]

from Paul - "What should be the penalty to the woman and abortion provider?"
Actually, Paul - you were asked that first and you are refusing to answer.
But of course you think everyone should answer you.
Talk about jerks.

[Bill Tozer]

Walt @5:45 pm....yet still on the topic of coming apart at the seams. Some just ain’t going to take it laying down.. you go girl. Laura Loomer.

https://animeright.news/ar14/loomered-laura-loomer-handcuffs-herself-to-door-of-twitter-hq-to-protest-suspension/

Walt @ 5:4 pm: Lefty rage against Joe Machin. Well yah, what did you expect?

https://www.facebook.com/BuckSexton/photos/a.568156706588519/2248128948591278/?type=3&theater

[Paul Emery]

Boy you're an angry white guy Walt.

[Walt]

Bill.. She took her gripe to the source! And used a page out of the LIB playbook.(only LIBS chain themselves to things)
LIB twitter is doing nothing new. Double standards apply.

As for Joe,, I expected him to goose step with the rest of the Socialists.

[Walt]

Me?? Angry?? Never. White, yup. So are you. Unless Greek passes for olive. As for attitude,, your just a dick,(and limp one at that) and go out of your way to do so.

[Bill Tozer]

I would like to know how many readers think the Great Divide does not exist. It usually gets pooh-poohed as a pigment of some racist white giy’s extremist’s imagination, as the mocking of Laura Loomer by the snug Leftinistas in the first link of the 6:03 pm above attested to. Nevermind CNN’s esteem expert Professor La Monte got canned and the all the co-chairwomen on the Woman’s March got called out for anti-semitism. A nothingburger.

Even hint about a upcoming quasi-bloodless civil War and it gets Steve’s gang off their duffs and hitting the reply button with their tongues wagging like crazy. Overdrive.
They just don’t a clue and the Great Divide is a non starter. It does not exist to them or the media, which is further left than the old Dem coots who retire gated properties up here. I believe the Industrail Media Entertainment Education Complex is the driver of the Leftinistas’s bus...and they really pooh-pooh even a whiff of a Great Divide. Ha. That’s the same bunch that completely missed 2016. Did not see it coming, did not have a friggin clue.

Anybody think the Great Divide is a myth?

[Bill Tozer]

No commentary necessary, save “And a young man with serious health issues.” Sure, bring them all in.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-trump-administration-has-been-criminal-from-the-start

[Paul Emery]

Thanks for verifying your anger problem Walt. Sputtering Walt as they call you .

[Todd Juvinall]

Walt hey you sure project calmness. Funny how libtards think disagreement is anger.

[Scott O]

from Paul - "Don't have a firm thought on details."
Dude, you don't have a firm thought in your head (except make dope legal!)
How is it you can criticise others others when you admit you don't have a clue.
You can throw rocks and quote other people but when it comes to Paul Emery espousing a firm conviction, it's just the sound of footsteps running away.

[Bill Tozer]

Don't see what all the commotion is about. Nancy Pelosi has already come out and said there is no room for pro-life woman in Party. And that is definitely the stand of the liberal women. So, there's nothing to talk about. It's a waste of time to talk to the unhinged. Nothing good could ever come out of talking to the left

[Walt]

Sputter? I'm thumping on all cylinders,and well tuned. Seems I'm the only one who will call a spade a spade. Or a prick a dick.
I don't tap dance around the issue. You avoid dealing with them.
I don't try and change my stripes. You try and hide in the background. (usually under your own pile of self generated horse shit)
(Now to prove a point)
Just what has Trump done to harm the nation? What has he done(other than just getting elected) to deserve all the hate from the likes of you and Proggys in general?
Now be precise. Hard facts will do.
Maybe just tell us just who's puss he grabbed. Name names.
Sorry, Stormy don't count. She lost in court.

[Walt]

Hey Bill.. Nancy is already writing checks with her mouth Proggys can't pay. Amnesty again? Free health care?
The dingbat forgets "O" ain't here. No control of both houses.
So She will control only half of one branch of three branches of power. Repubs didn't get anywhere when they were in the same position.

[Paul Emery]

Todd's back in the discussion. He's the one that claims the Republicans actually won the election in California.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 December 2018 at 10:19 PM

Todd's back in the discussion.

Who is this "Todd"……...

[Paul Emery]

Who's Todd Fish?

He's a Nevada County old timer. Brief success in local politics 30 years or so ago failed toadvance beyond local elections. Struggled as a wanna be developer. Currently a living relic of times gone by. Possibly the last active Republican in Nevada County. Kinda sad. A relic of times gone by. One of the active bloggers on RR that actually lives here by the way.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 December 2018 at 07:18 AM

What are you trying to say Punch…..?

[Paul Emery]

You asked Who is this "Todd" 6:38. Just helping you out with some local history.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 December 2018 at 07:34 AM

Are you trying to say that you are a qualified Nevada City historian Punch?

[Paul Emery]

Yep Got a long memory Been here since '76.

[Walt]

OH!!.... So Paul carpetbagged his way here. An outsider!
Just about the time things started going to shit around here.

[scenes]

BillT: "Even hint about a upcoming quasi-bloodless civil War and it gets Steve’s gang off their duffs and hitting the reply button with their tongues wagging like crazy. Overdrive.
They just don’t a clue and the Great Divide is a non starter. "

It's a funny thing. Maybe it's a side effect of living in high segregated environments and spending their web time on Blue Mob oriented sites. Of course, they all love them their diversity and would live in the hood in a second, but business interests keep them here.

24/7 Trumphate has to be a bit exhausting, but what is really going on is obvious. It's not so much Orange Hitler that gets their knickers in an uproar, but his voters. Those ignorant and violent rural people just need to STFU and do what's good for them.

Walt: "Just what has Trump done to harm the nation? "

That's easy to answer.

. He's a cheerleader for the West and the United State specifically. Not allowed.
. Made an attempt to enforce border and immigration law. Not allowed.
. Bragged about his ability to grab willing pussy in a private conversation. Not allowed.
. Cut taxes to a certain extent. Not allowed.
. Is uninterested in continuing the Bush/Obama war in Afghanistan. Not allowed. No doubt the War Party and the 17 intelligence agencies are pissed about this one.
. Made fun of Democratic saints, never apologizes. Not allowed.
. Thinks that .gov 'climate change' policy is overwrought. Not allowed.
. Is uninterested in grievance politics. Not allowed. This makes him a white supremacist.
. Hasn't done shit about health care one way or the other. Nobody cares.
. Cranks up national debt. Nobody cares.

Well, I certainly see the ingredients for continuous MSM and Blue Mob outrage there.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 December 2018 at 07:46 AM

Yep Got a long memory Been here since '76.

Could you provide some documentation or links to verify this assertion? We don't just accept anecdotal evidence.

[Bill Tozer]

Somewoke woke up with Todd Degranement Syndrome big time..again. Talk about a squirrel cage with that spinning exercise wheel.

No worries Fish. Punchy was raised in your neck of the Sacramento Valley suburbs before he joined the Resistance up here. Another transplant. Another one who is trying to remake the area into his own image. Now that he is here, you are an outsider!

Last night I was going to post “Hey, 10:19 pm, what the hell does that have to do with the topic? Take your pettiness to the Sandbox”, but I refrained. It would be off topic. ; Figured the TDS, TAD, and BDS would subside until after 8:00 am. I thunk wrong.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217868888177523&set=gm.524008118114692&type=3&theater&ifg=1
————————
Coming apart at the seams? Anybody notice the similarities of Anifa and Paris? The burning of cars, the broken windshields and store front windows, the makeshift barricades, ambulances on medical emergencies unable to get through, rage against cops, and of course, the super rage against banks. Hmmm. Guess you could add the OWS crowd in that description. And like the OWS crowd, the Left as been hijacked by the extreme elements, led by our gatekeepers of truth, the media. Funny, in Paris the truck drivers and cabbies say their gas tax protest was hijacked by the violent anti-capitalist Marxists as well. And the “no hate” peaceful marches say the same thing. Hmmm. When the sun sets, the children of darkness appear. Like the Khomer Rouge.

What do they seek to change? Everything.

[fish]

Your first laugh of the 2020 election season…..

"BIDEN: I am most qualified…"

What……to make a teenaged girl feel uncomfortable!?

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/419577-biden-i-think-i-am-the-most-qualified-person-in-the-country-to-be-president

vs.

https://truthfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/joe-biden-trump-grow-up.png

['''M''']

,,,coming apart at the seams,,,Trumpski and Cohen are taking turns throwing each other under the bus,,,a favorite beltway pastime

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 03 December 2018 at 06:42 PM

I sincerely content that the entire "Great Divide" frame is a myth, designed by reactionary media actors and political movement leaders to polarize people of seemingly different political philosophies, who are in reality more connected by a common human culture; a common human culture which actually transcends race, gender, geography and economic class.

The things that bind humans together--cognition, communication, self preservation, emotion, procreation, myth, spiritualism, rationalism, universalism, the desire to create order and structure, the creation of family and peer groups, the desire to create society for mutual benefit--all of these things are common to almost all human societies and could be virtually indistinguishable regardless of geography or race.

The concept of a "Divide" that separates us from other human actors,, or from each other within our own society by age, gender or class, is in reality a strategy to separate people and create a power center or power dynamic that creates advantage. The strategy eventually leads to the dehumanization of the 'other' to gain political, economic or status advantage within the society, and leads to discrimination, disempowerment, and if left unchecked, genocide.

I would argue that even in the United States we are actually much more commonly bound by both the human traits I described above and a shared set of values based on our unique history than proponents of the Great Divide contend. I could point to literally hundreds of studies that show once we go beneath the myth of the Divide we are actually almost universally aligned in our values in the United States.

What motivates proponents of the Great Divide to continue to perpetuate it is a fundamental insecurity about their changing place in society and culture, a change which is both constant and inevitable ..but it is triggering a fundamentally reactionary mind set of resistance to change.

Whether the individual proponent of the Great Divide is primarily identifying with race, gender, class or religion, they are fundamentally insecure about their place in society and rather than proactively improving society they are in essence 'dropping out' which to me is simply a lazy and irresponsible shirking of our collective responsibility to each other.

[Steven Frisch]

Oh, and the laziest fu@# amongst the crew is Todd; the most dangerous because he knows what he is doing is George; and the most annoying because he is simply a contrarian tool of a juvenile libertarianism is Greg.