The Real Issue That Divides Us (updated 27jan19)

George Rebane

Conservetarians believe in global diversity and national cohesion; progressives believe in global conformity and national diversity.  The former resists global autocracy, the latter sustains global autocracy.

Nationally prominent commentator and executive WSJ editor Gerald Seib recently wrote ‘The Wall Marks a Deep Cultural Divide’ (in the 21jan19 WSJ) a piece describing attributes which divide America that focused on “character differences”.  In his piece Seib said, “One question asked whether immigration adds to the character and strength of America by increasing its diversity and bringing in new talent, or detracts from American character by putting burdens on government services and creating language barriers”, and then cited the disparate responses of the Trump and resist-Trump supporters.

While I agreed with Seib’s subsequent analysis, I felt that he did not reach deep enough to a more basic, revelatory, and explanatory level (in the sense of being able to reliably predict derivative attitudes and behaviors).

I emailed Mr Seib a brief explanation of my critique: Mr Seib - Our divide goes much deeper than can be discovered with pabulum questions about “American character”.  If these surveys were structured and administered so as to discover what kind of future world order Americans would like to see the US being a part of (i.e. Westphalian sovereign nation-states vs a peerage of jurisdictional fiefs of a global government), then the answers would be more revealing (and reliably predictive) as to the respondents’ attitudes about border security, immigration policy, cultural diversity, paths to citizenship of illegal aliens, etc, since all these are dependent on how people value culturally cohesive (vs fragmented) nations, and whether/how such a community of nations should continue to organize the world’s peoples.

In his reply he thanked me for “an exceptionally thoughtful note” with which he agreed that “these issues run much deeper”.  With this exchange I was heartened to identify one more prominent national thinker who concurs with the seminal Great Divide perspective I have tried to communicate to RR readers.

These issues do indeed run much deeper in the sense that there are meta-beliefs (such as described above) that give rise to the more readily observed, perceived, and discussed derivative beliefs reported in the daily media and which are extracted with surveys, no matter how clumsily constructed and administered.

Today, people continue to embrace dimly and/or misunderstood concepts of political systems, components and roles of culture, and the meanings of a small blizzard of terms they hear pundits spray at them as if extracted off stone tablets from Mt Sinai.  To confirm this, one need look no further than our own RR comment streams.  The bottom line comes down to whether a person instinctively hews to the siren song of security promised by globalized collectivist orders like progressivism, Nazism, socialism, communism, … that are lumped under the Left label.  Or the countering socio-economic ideologies like libertarian, conservative, conservetarian, republican, Westphalian, capitalist, … lumped under the Right label.  (Of course, per the Alinsky teachings, the Left instinctively denies the outcome of its public policies, and accuses the Right of exactly the very same socially toxic practices.)  

My own lifelong opposition to collectivism, as practiced above the bounds of family (clan?), derives primarily from my family’s experiences and my own education/training, combined with a long career in business and academe.  Collectivism has always been unnatural in the sense of organizing and solving problems in the opposite way from the way Nature does.  Anthropology teaches that over the ages evolution (starting in the Cambrian explosion) always pruned every errant branch of life that attempted to control and manage large critters and cultivations from one central location. (Some large dinosaurs actually attempted two separately located brains for more efficient control.  And the architectures of our own and other modern critter brains are composed of functionally separate, layered, neural modules that can operate individually or in various concerts with other modules to perceive and perform.)

Collectivists (e.g. progressives, liberals, socialists, communists, nazis, …) promote large scale central planning and control by experts and elites a fortiori carried out by/through big governments.  In doing so they exhibit the ultimate hubris of Man, attempting to observe the unobservable, and control the uncontrollable.  Conservetarians instead adhere to the natural order exemplified by organizations based on maximally distributed knowledge and control, which therefore promote smaller governments in social orders.  And concomitantly such distributed social structures naturally inhibit autocracies, and also reduce them to the extent that they are allowed purchase in any existing system of governance.  (Our progressive elites give no evidence of acknowledging this, and their compliant constituents don’t even understand the concept - cf comment stream below.)

Because of its inherent inflexibility to successfully micro-manage its target social order, collectivist governments must needs impose further unnatural policies of uniformity – the ‘one size fits all’ laws, regulations, punishments, values, mores, … - all imposed in the name of ‘social justice’, ‘fairness’, ‘equality’, ‘racial equity’, ‘gender equity’, and ‘inclusivity’.  Citizens in opposition to such resulting policies are then automatically ascribed/exposed, and dealt with as social misfits and extremists, even though their opposition has nothing to do with these politically correct attributes.  In short, the propagandized basis for each collectivized policy automatically identifies and segregates its opponents into established aberrant categories (see also the Chinese social metric applied to all citizens),.

Collectivism’s ‘inflexibility to appropriately micro-manage’ arises from technical reasons that describe the design of our universe.  These reasons are really meta-constraints that are scientifically established in the fields of measurement, estimation, (system) identification, and prediction.  In short, since time immemorial ‘civilized’ collectivists (e.g. absolute monarchies) have attempted to govern people by means that inherently cannot work, and therefore in their desperation to stay in power, have made the lives of billions into “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short” existences.  Today’s collectivists, informed of this history, are therefore evil in their purposive promulgation of it; or if ignorant of the history and the whole science of planning and control, are then Lenin’s useful idiots who base their beliefs on sugar-coated slogans and elevator speeches made acceptable by an education which lobotomized whatever critical thinking ability they might have had.

[For the technical reader, the above described reduction of predictive attributes to the indicated globalist vs. Westphalian (GvW) minimum can also be explained via the mathematics of principal component analysis.  PCA would efficiently abstract the GvW discriminant that can subsequently be used to efficiently and reliably predict a more extended list of derived/attendant behaviors expressed within a complex social system like, say, the socio-political preferences of individuals in present day America.]

[27jan19 update] Re the Steven Frisch contribution – some of our readers perceived that this commentary was also a thinly veiled invitation, nay, command performance for those of our liberal readers who can include intellecting with their inevitable invective.  Mr Frisch is the local progressive poster child for that.  Without contributions from the likes of him, it is clear that RR would only be an echo chamber of conservetarian thought.  However, here the regular participation of about five or six liberals, with the occasional enraged progressive reader thrown in, makes these comment streams both enlightening and entertaining (although I cringe whenever ‘one of ours’ can’t keep it together and goes for tit-for-tat ad hominems.)

Mr Frisch has again demonstrated that the only way he can enter a debate/discussion of contending ideas is when he takes control of both sides of the argument by putting words into the mouths of his opposites, and then slaying the (paper mâché) dragons he has brought to life.  Here he could neither understand nor debate the seminal socio-political discriminant I identified (which was perfectly clear to Gerald Seib), so he made up another stream of pabulum that attempted to convey that somehow the Westphalian convention (principle) was badly outdated, to be replaced by a relatively minor post-WW2 tweak that the UN added.  In the restructuring of world order by western civilization, Westphalia is the seminal root of the tree that has given rise to a number of derivative branches, of which Mr Frisch is at least familiar with the one he presents.  Those not encumbered with union taught revisionist history immediately recognize such attempts as the comparison of low grade ore with the mother lode, this was made clear by no less than Dr Kissinger (another unknown to the liberal mind because of his relationship with Nixon).

But again, that was not the point of my commentary and reply to Gerald Seib’s contribution in the pages of the WSJ.  We must not miss the thing in Mr Frisch’s favor, and that is that none of his constituents have any better understanding, if even that, of the issue here presented.  To those, who can parse the topic of a paragraph, Mr Frisch’s sonorous snark, sprinkled with irrelevant details, carries the day.  However, that constituency is a very wide one that flexes its muscle daily across our land – when the Right lost the country’s public educational system, the tipping point, as predicted by Lenin, was passed.

What is more revealing about Mr Frisch’s counter, is the added extra where he had to again denigrate my immigrant status – for what it’s worth, I have been a US citizen longer than Steven has been alive.  In the past he has called me everything from a traitor to a Nazi – again displaying that he doesn’t even understand the definition of collectivist, and cannot ascribe the correct historical forms of governance to collectivism.  But most recently hereunder he resorts to labeling me as “the master race propagandist of Tallinn” and “Tallinn Man”.  Now, attributing someone white and from northern Europe with pejorative labels to their country of origin is perfectly allowable and politically correct for the progressive sensibility, but don’t you dare try to refer to someone in the same vein as a the ‘Mexico City Man’ or ‘Tegucigalpa Man’ or the ‘Kinshasa Man’.  You’d be immediately branded as a racist xenophobe, with no further evidence needed to march you to the wall, should they ever achieve their dream.

The bottom line of this comparative analysis is that there is absolutely no middle ground with the Progressive Left, simply because there exists no intellectual concordance with any of them – as witnessed here once more, there is nothing joining us that provides a bridge or supportive platform for productive dialogue.

Comments

[L]

Saw what you did there at paragraph 8. L

[George Rebane]

L 257pm - Thought you might; think they'll bite?

[Paul Emery]

George

What "label" do you give Libertarians such as Ron Paul who believes we should not be involved in foreign military adventures unless they threaten our national boundaries? Of course I'm referring to the ideas expressed in his essay "Why we Fight.

https://original.antiwar.com/paul/2005/09/10/why-we-fight-and-why-we-shouldnt/

[George Rebane]

PaulE 441pm - He is a Westphalian purist. Unfortunately, we cannot pull in our horns to a degree that would satisfy such purists. The world is too interconnected to allow us that luxury.

[Tricky McClean]

“The world is too interconnected to allow us that luxury.” Now I’m totally confused ... I thought “interconnected” was a Nazi-Communist word!

[fish]

Posted by: Tricky McClean | 27 January 2019 at 11:54 AM

Depends on who’s using it!

[Paul Emery]

So George whats next under your exemption from Westphalian principals? Venezuela? Are we going to make the same mistake of attempted Nation Building there that we attempted and failed so miserably at in Iraq and the Middle East?

[George Rebane]

TrickyM 1154am - Courage sir! Set aside for a moment the method you used for drawing that inference (the discovery of which itself would be an entertaining pursuit), and consider that 'global interconnectedness' can manifest itself in several different ways. You are apparently focused on the command and control aspect of that notion of the kind practiced by totalitarians. Widen your semantic horizon, and you'll see (I hope) that the Westphalian world order can also be intensely interconnected in, say, trade, finance, and all kinds of cooperative developments among sovereign nation-states. I hope this resolves some of your total confusion. If not, let's attempt to dissipate whatever confusion remains. Thanks for bringing this up.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 1242pm - The Westphalian order is not a suicide pact. Nations that strongly feel that their national interests (economic, security, ...) are being compromised by another nation or political entity have and always will take measures to protect such interests, including whumping the offender. But the Westphalian principle puts the onus on the invader to make its case to the world community that its response was justified under what passes for global norms of justice. Pre-Westphalian principals were not so burdened - might was right without need of justification and/or the possibility of suffering a unified front of sanctions from other nations.

[Steven Frisch]

So first off this idea that the world today should be primarily guided by principles of state sovereignty included in the Treaty of Westphalia and the Westphalian Doctrine coming out f the 30 years war that ended 350 years ago, is a little out of date, to say the least.

That was a world where standing armies numbered in the low tens of thousands for most nations, there were no weapons of mass destruction, no electronic communication, 90% of goods were used within 50 miles of where they were grown or manufactured, there was no real financial industry, and more than 50% of the populous was illiterate.

It was essentially the Westphalian concept of state sovereignty, and the idea that the state as a sovereign could set its own rules (or blatant lack thereof, that made crimes against humanity and crimes against peace legal by the sovereign), and that there was no international obligation or recourse other than war (or what became total war in WWI & WWII), that ensured wars of global scale and cost.

State sovereignty as defined after WWII, as a result of first the UN Charter based on the concept of mutual sovereign consensual obligation, and the Nuremberg Trials that set the standard that mere sovereign approval did not indemnify perpetrators of crimes against humanity and crimes against peace, is simply different today. That does not mean that a state does not retain almost all of its previously Westphalian Doctrine powers, it means that in the light of modernity, rational players can limit their own powers.

To ignore that, and characterize anything that voluntarily limits sovereignty as inherently some form of creeping globalism that will end in everlasting darkness, is just more dinosaur shit sprinkled across this page by the master race propagandist of Tallinn.

[Steven Frisch]

And I have to agree with Tricky on this one.....

....global engagement I like (for example invading Iraq) is interconnectivity....
....global engagement I don't like (for example the UNHCR) is the new world order...

...cherry pick much Tallinn Man?

[Steven Frisch]

"But the Westphalian principle puts the onus on the invader to make its case to the world community that its response was justified under what passes for global norms of justice."

Yeah, like the Gleiwitz incident where German operators faked the Polish attack on the German radio tower as a casus belli.

I'm sorry George, but its not like the Westphalian system did not mean might did not invade right or small at will in the period between 1648 and 1945.

[Russ]

Where are all the opposing views from you pseudonym user's? Was George's presentation too deep for your comprehension? Or, do you agree with George's views on the great divide?

You progressive lurkers need to speak up and express your views unless you accept George's insight and wisdom on the great divide.

[Todd Juvinall]

I am all in for the Monroe doctrine. Reagan used it for Grenada and Panama, LBJ for Santa Domingo, HW Bush for Panama. I hve friends in Venezuela and the place is a disaster. Maduro won't leave and they know what is coming. A couple thousand Marines and some gunships and the country gets peaceful again.

[Russ]

A TUTORIAL ON PRINCIPAL COMPONENT ANALYSIS
Here is a link to a Princeton principal component analysis (PCA) tutorial. PCA is a mainstay of modern data analysis - a black box that is widely used but poorly understood. The goal of this Princeton paper is to dispel the magic behind this black box. The tutorial focuses on building a solid intuition for how and why principal component analysis works.

https://www.cs.princeton.edu/picasso/mats/PCA-Tutorial-Intuition_jp.pdf

I hope this helps. Michael "Hockey Stick" Mann attempted to use PCA in his analysis of tree rings and their relationship to global warming and screwed it up by not understanding how PCA works. He could have used this tutorial to make sure random noise did not also produce "hockey sticks". See how important it is to understanding PCA works? Today we would not be spending billions of our taxpayer dollars trying to fix a natural climate cycle if Mann had understood PCA limitations. Then again, maybe he did.

[Russ]

Clarification:

He could have used this tutorial to make sure random noise did not also produce "hockey sticks" when processed by his PCA analysis program.

[Paul Emery]

So Todd was the invasion of Iraq worth the expense of American lives (over 4000) and Treasure (2 Trillion) ?

[George Rebane]

StevenF - First of all, thank you for your contribution. But as usual, your understanding fell short. My commentary was not about the interpretation of Westphalian details, but its citation in part as to what notion divides us today that most efficiently summarizes and gives rise to derivative beliefs which are then completely predictable (e.g. such as yours if these comment streams are witness). BTW, you should also submit your critique to Henry Kissinger. I would suggest your reading of his 'World Order', but I'm not sure that will be any more comprehensible than your attempts to understand my socio-political beliefs. Nevertheless, spewing your interpretations wrapped in personal invectives always conveys the comfort of consistency.

[Gregory]

George, Ron Paul isn't a "Westphalian purist"... he's someone who thinks the Constitution is binding and says what it says.... a Constitutional purist.

Frisch thinks that the Constitution can and should be diluted little by little with trade deals cum treaties that bind us. Boiling the frog. We'll all be globalists before anyone knows it.

Punchy... the word you were looking for but didn't find at 1242pm is "principles". The word you used refers to this kind of p-word;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_Skinner

[Paul Emery]

That's an old one Gregory. You've used it before. Try something new for a change

[Gregory]

Punchy... An old one? Your flub is only about 3 hours old by my clock.

[George Rebane]

Gregory 324pm - According to my and my mentors' lights, US Constitutional purists are a subset of Westphalian purists. You can draw your tree differently.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 27 January 2019 at 02:15 PM

George I think you misunderstood my post....I would think my meaning would be clear to a self proclaimed illuminated one...if the citation your modern assumptions of "what divides us today" rest upon are unsound in the modern world, then the view you hold of our modern world are unsound.

I completely understand your socio-political beliefs. I merely think your hold socio-political believes are Euro-centric tripe.

But of course when faced with a critique I expect you to resort to derivative meanings for comfort. Thus the "master race propagandist of Tallinn."

[George Rebane]

StevenF 415pm - Another mouthful of words from you; wherever did you draw any evidence that I am "a self proclaimed illuminated one". You should really give it a try - address what people actually have said, instead constantly trying to avoid the debate by creating straw men you can tackle.

[Steven Frisch]

I did address what you said, And really, you’re calling me wordy! The Westphalian Doctrine was based on an entirely different world, as I said, and basing a policy of global engagement today solely or even predominately on the Westphalian vision was largely extirpated by WWII and the Nuremberg trials.

You based your case on the foundation that Americans would rather be a part of a Westphalian nation state...that is right up there in your response to Mr. Seib.

[Don Bessee]

@543 You lefties need to lock up your old white guys, wait that would mean you too frischy -

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/01/27/brokaw-hispanics-should-work-harder-at-assimilation/

;-)

[Don Bessee]

As the world turns and it turns out that the scum of the left are scurrying in both directions. The inflow is all from our strategic threats. Iran, little green men from the ruskies and the chi coms want to get paid or own a base. But even the EU etc. say no way jose ….

(Bloomberg) -- Until recently, it would have been unthinkable for a majority of Latin American countries to rally around U.S. President Donald Trump’s push for regime change in Caracas.

In a quick succession of statements, eleven Latin countries followed Trump’s lead to recognize Juan Guaido, the leader of Venezuela’s national assembly, as the country’s interim president. That’s a far cry from the traditional support for non-intervention and the suspicion with which Washington has been greeted in a region with a long history of U.S. intervention.

The shift stems in part from the receding "pink tide" of left-leaning governments which has given way to administrations eager for closer ties with the U.S., and also from the sheer scale of the tragedy in Venezuela, said Benjamin Gedan, a former South America director at the White House’s National Security Council during the Obama administration.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/latin-american-nations-rally-around-130001545.html

;-)

[Tricky MMMcarna]

Sedition

[Tricky MMMcarna]

Sedition

[Tricky MMMcarna]

Sedition

[Steven Frisch]

I think you can judge a person partly by how unimaginative their insults are Don.

[Gregory]

Frisch 825pm

That was an entirely unimaginative insult, Steve.

[L]

Frisch @8:25, have a look at the three remarks directly above your own non-sequiter.
George @4:04 yesterday: Yep!

L

[George Rebane]

re StevenF 543pm - For Steve Frisch evidence is what he says is evidence, nothing more is needed.

There is a 'Westphalian principle' and a 'Westphalian world order', but I'm not familiar with what is "a part of a Westphalian nation state". It seems that with every succeeding post Frisch continues to demonstrate that he is out of his element.

In the update I have posted a more complete reflection on the above exchange with Mr Frisch who arrived in this comment stream on schedule.

[Larry Kennedy]

Steven Frische 5:43-
Consider it an honor to be called "wordy" by George Rebane. He is a walking, talking example of why every major publication employs editors. Too often writers who hold themselves in lofty esteem mistake loquaciousness with being erudite. Here on these pages we've seen a corruption of the American English language so stilted and bizarre that it upends the whole reason for language - communication.

When an author is incapable of using common English communication to the point he is required to assemble his own glossary of terms, it becomes Tolkienesque. The difference between Tolkien and Rebane, of course, is that Tolkien could communicate across broad swaths of society, and even when translated into 21 different languages his message was un garbled and rang clear as a bell. Hold your ground Steve, even those of who don't ascribe to your beliefs, understand what you are trying to say. And are not baffled by BS.

[scenes]

LarryKennedy@11:21

tl;dr Me no like George so me no like George's wording.

Mr Frisch typing a missive from his NPO with nary a POC:
"I think you can judge a person partly by how unimaginative their insults are Don."

It seems to me that there's a pretty weak correlation, but I'll put up my variant. You can judge a movement partly by the nature of it's insults. Now that the Blue Mob has decided that 'populism', 'nationalism', and 'Eurocentric' are the worst kind of phrases, it really gives you insight into their philosophy. No arguments on public policy are needed or used.

The fact that the Blue Mob thinks of itself as some kind of world changin', people savin', do goodin' kind of rabble rather than as simply the street soldiers of the current elite cracks me up no end. In the final analysis, the 420th Nevada City Volunteers are merely cannon fodder for Citibank.

To be fair, somebody has got to replace culture with government fiat. It's for the children after all.

[scenes]

From https://deadline.com/2019/01/tom-brokaw-apologizes-for-meet-the-press-immigration-comments-1202543000/

"Appearing as a panelist on this morning’s show (see video via Twitter below), Brokaw said when he “pushes” Americans on the subject of immigration, “They say, ‘Well, I don’t know whether I want brown grand-babies.’ That’s also a part of it, the intermarriage that’s going on and the cultures that are conflicting with each other. I also happen to believe that the Hispanics should work harder at assimilation. … You know, they ought not to be just codified in their communities but make sure that all their kids are learning to speak English and that they feel comfortable in the communities. And that’s going to take outreach on both sides, frankly.”
...
followed by (of course):

"“I feel terrible a part of my comments on Hispanics offended some members of that proud culture,” Brokaw tweeted in the first of a multi-part apology. "

followed up by another speaker:

"And the idea that we think Americans can only speak English, as if Spanish and other languages wasn’t always part of America, is, in some ways, troubling.”"
-----

Not only different cultures, but swathes of the US not speaking English as a primary language. Nope, no trouble a brewin' here. You just need to make sure that the imperial capital has a great big internal security organization.

[scenes]

re: Tom Brokaw

Those are the words you hear from someone who says what they think, but then sez the magic words to keep his job.

You'd hate for the Blue Mob to stop by your front door after all.

[fish]

"“I feel terrible a part of my comments on Hispanics offended some members of that proud culture,” Brokaw tweeted in the first of a multi-part apology. "

The theatrical ritual apology……! Predictable and part and parcel of the progressive catechism.

You would think that a guy with all the "fuck you" money in the world would have the stones to tell Blue Mob to pound sand. But I forget that Tom still wants to be invited to the "proper" social gatherings so it's abase yourself Tom…..abase yourself before all!!

He'll do penance (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penance) and wash his evil deed away.

[Todd Juvinall]

It looks like the democrats have a lot of things to apologize for. Of course his goosing of a fellow classmate in the fifth grade is still to be done.

[George Rebane]

re LarryK 1121pm - And yet they come, and yet they come.

[scenes]

"The theatrical ritual apology……!"

It's funny that we're far enough along in our current drama that not only the word 'nationalism' is equal to Nazism, but that the suggestion that immigrants should immerse themselves in a national culture and learn the national language is considered a form of heresy.

Unless there's some form of technically driven 'singularity' (truly a kind of deus ex machina I guess), we can expect *such* an amazing Yugoslavia to emerge. It's entertaining to think about who the warring parties will be. Just wait until Europe is overrun by the population explosion from the south.

[Larry Kennedy]

Re Brokaw-
The guy is undergoing chemo for multiple myeloma, has Alzheimers, and is rapidly going blind. I agree, his time for being in front a camera is over but you have to give him credit for still being able to hold a thought and articulate in complete sentences. That's more than anyone has ever said about Juvinall, even in his prime some 50 years ago.

[Bill Tozer]

The real issue that divides us? Hmmm. I can name two off the top me melllon.

Gov. Cuomo: Pro-life, pro-gun conservatives 'have no place' in New York

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/19/gov-cuomo-pro-life-conservatives-have-no-place-new/?fbclid=IwAR12D3dvGf1Nhfrn0y2RsnzIgnjaEqOUuxOfu_y0op5cpN7M9WKhUF3e14o

[George Rebane]

BillT 908am - My point is that all such issues (and there are tens of them) are derivative, and can be reliably subsumed by the globalist/Westphalian discriminant.

[Todd Juvinall]

Larry Kennedy | 28 January 2019 at 02:43 PM
You trolls are too funny. I have a knack of getting you to come out from under your bridges. What a hoot!

[Bill Tozer]

@ 9:31 am. Ok, maybe this it too far out there, but it’s a bigger issue nonetheless. What really divides us?

“Consider even the appeal of Socialism today. In it we find the idea that you are not free unless the government makes possible your desires. It actually makes sense. Many Americans have come to elevate the self above all else. It is their “god.” When something exterior to the self comes in conflict with self-actualization, we do not reflect and wonder about the rightness or wrongness of our desires. Instead, we turn to the collective to remove that barrier.

I believe that desire is the root of the rage you see so often unleashed. It is the desire to be like God, but confronted by the reality of human limits. Those things that go against our personal truth, such as tradition, law, customs, and so on, are to be destroyed so that there can be no doubt as to the rightness of our personal truth.

According to Plato, the pursuit of our desires leads to more and more social chaos, which ultimately ends in tyranny.

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/root-our-troubles

[George Rebane]

BillT 1029am - Make no mistake Mr Tozer, you are right that gun rights and abortion are indeed among the most proximal and visible issues. But they become issues only because of the major ideological faction in America that unifies under a collectivist global governance. And the semantically camouflaged derivative issues are what must be implemented as public policies to make America into a compliant country ready for such governance.

For the socialists to lead with the open promotion of an overarching, powerful global world order would be anathema in today's America (and even Europe). The weakening of sovereign nations must be a gradual process (through education, entertainment, and entitlements) that brings to mind its simile of frogs being slowly cooked in tolerably hot water. Prominent and comprehensible derivative issues are just the ticket.

[Paul Emery]

George based on personal conversations You believe in a woman's right to choose with a reasonable time limit. How do you reconcile that viewpoint with your Republican Conservative colleagues?

[Don Bessee]

It only took 2 years and its not been confirmed that he was snatched up in his mommy's basement -

Washington, D.C. Antifa leader Joseph “Jose” Alcoff, also known as “Chepe,” was arrested and charged with multiple felonies in Philadelphia on Jan. 10 in connection to the Antifa mob attack against two Marines in November.

Alcoff faces 17 charges, including multiple counts of aggravated assault, ethnic intimidation, conspiracy and terroristic threats, and one count of robbery while inflicting serious bodily injury.

An affidavit filed in the case reveals that The Daily Caller News Foundation’s reporting on Alcoff’s connection to violent Antifa groups was an integral factor leading to his arrest. (RELATED: Revealed: Antifa Leader Relied On Anonymity To Push Radical, Violent Communist Agenda)

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/29/antifa-leader-marines-arrested/

;-)

[George Rebane]

PaulE 1153am - what does abortion have to do with the topic at hand, especially since such derivative factors were covered in my 1102am?