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14 February 2019

Comments

Robert Cross

No George!! It's called why should taxpayers subsidize the richest man in the world.. He can afford to build anywhere he wants without nipping taxpayers. So governments giving taxpayers benefits(health care, Social Security, etc) that they have paid for is socialist but giving corporations billions in taxpayer dollars to build facilities is just business as usual.

Walt

Look at the bright side Cross Bobby, Amazon won't be paying ANY taxes to N.Y., right along with all the rest leaving the state of Taxation.
I bet you love your "free shipping" from Amazon.( you do know that's tax deducible?,,,, for them?)

Bocephus

,,,George,,,are you saying then that you are for giveaways to big corporations and putting the burden on the local residents and taxpayers???

Bill Tozer

25,000 good paying (tax paying) jobs created versus gentrification and hating on the immoral rich. Hmmm. Decisions, decisiios. How many tax payers left NY recently? Gov Cuomo was belly aching about loss of good tax payers just last week. Just as well. NYC would just rape those new 25,000 nicely paid workers with taxes anyway.

scenes

A good solid bet.

The new Amazon administrative center, if one comes to pass, will be in DC.

If you are going to help run an empire, you'll put yourself in the center of power.

George Rebane

RobertC 1220pm - I responded to 'Bocephus', one your ideological comrades, in another comment stream on the same notion - How do you respond to the seminal premise of capitalism that the capitalist undertakes the risk of losing his investment in order to make a profit, and, of course, as much profit as possible. In the Revenues - Costs = Profit, it is clear how minimizing costs increases the expected profits and therefore helps justify the risk taken. Then when owners of an enterprise reduce costs by minimizing the cost of labor, do you then consider that action is the result of character deficiencies such as 'greed'? This has been the message of socialists and communists since the days of Marx; do your sentiments align with those ideologies?

Perhaps you can explain your obvious rage at Bezos seeking to max the value of Amazon shares to its shareholders, of which he is one. Does he owe NYC something about which we and the IRS are not aware?

Todd Juvinall

Funny how the left thinks. A bullet train fantasy spends 100 billion and may bring in a 25% part nonsubsidy if it does get built. And like local transit the taxpayers pay 75% subsidy for the buses like all those across America do. And the return to the taxpayers os what? And though I oppose subsidies most of the time, it would probably be OK for Amazon as they would actually pay it back. Just like GM did.

Todd Juvinall

Who came up with the idea that El Chapo's ill gotten gains would pay for the wall? What a great idea! No tax money and a Mexican pays for it.

Robert Cross

There is no rage George.. there you go again casting shade without any direct knowledge. The question is how many 'good paying jobs' at what remuneration and how does that compare to the burden that befalls the taxpayers. There is a well documented history of governmental tax breaks to corporations in exchange for so-called jobs that when it all has been said and done, doesn't pencil out and costs taxpayers way more than the jobs put back.

Robert Cross

"max the value of Amazon shares to its shareholders". that is the problem with unregulated capitalism.. that is the prime directive...profit before people.. so in this case fuck the taxpayers of NYC and give it to Amazon shareholders.. So what you are saying is that those shareholders need not have any accountability to the public who are their customers? Remember the Love Canal or any other of the thousands of incidents in which corporate activities with an eye to profit poisoned and maimed people to make a buck.
And then you wonder why so many young people tend to favor a more progressive approach to government and economics.

Walt

Bobby and his dreams of a Commie America will be hard to implement with all the bullets in the air.

Yet, you don't have the stones at answer shit.
Run along Babs.
No one stopped you from making a buck.

Todd Swallows

Todd 4:05-
Just wake up? Shaking it off? We discussed this for hours yesterday. Do some research, it's only a day old. You can handle it.

Todd Juvinall

Linda 555

Who cares? You follow me around like a little pooch. Smell my leg and get back to your bed you old fart.

George Rebane

It seems that here we have Robert Cross the great adjudicator who knows better than the elected leaders of NYC who designed and approved the Amazon deal. From these foothills we have another leftist raging (yes, raging) about great social injustices that he fabricates out of whole cloth. Where did they ever dig up that 'profits before people' crap for the Amazon HQ2 deal?

And everyone talks of corporate malfeasance re the Love Canal. But no one revisits the history of how government allowed Hooker Chemical to dump their wastes (according to laws then in effect) and then allowed a suburban neighborhood to be built on top of the waste dump. Is the guilt all one-sided?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal

Todd Swallows

Okay, I'm a lefty, but not at all sure about the Amazon uproar. It's not like a Walmart or Cabelas is going in and will put a lot of local mom and pop shops out of business. It seems like NYC is betting on a bunch of growth and job creation and ultimately a gain in the tax roles. 25,000 jobs isn't something to sneeze at. AOC is NOT my cup of tea. Todd, on the other hand . . . are you really an Aqua Velva man?

Walt

Cabelas? Bad choice. We have two gun shops. BFD. Big 5. Not Mom and Pop. other than that sporting goods are non existent.

As for Mom and Pop, big gov is keeping them in check. You have no clue the cost of the never ending regulations.
NOT that you give a rat's ass. It's the bitching that counts.

You for an exit tax on individuals and businesses that leave the state?

Bill Tozer

Fudicuary responsibility to the shareholders is the law. Now, how can we get our hands on all that money Bezos is sitting on? Maybe we can build studios for starving artists to practice their craft without being constrained by the pesky concerns of the left side of their brains....like rent and distracting worry about where their next meal is coming from.

But, what about all those widow pensioners and teachers unions that have invested in Amazon shares? Some put their life savings behind Jeff. Do we forget about them? Do we toss their concerns out the window? Do we let them die in poverty and dispair? Nay, the shareholds are the owners of Amazon and the laws charge the Board and executive officers to put the interests of the shareholders above themselves, even to their own personal detriment. Fudicary responsibility is a heavy responsibility.

What risk does a well paid Amazon employee take? They are compensated for their toil. They are worthy of their wage. Is it his/her own money on the line? Nothing wrong with being a good member of the community. Good Will is a great tax write off you do it right. Adds value to the Company’s worth. Buy some new playground equipment for a local park and show Disney movies on Movie Night at the local rec center if so inclined. Or not.

Todd Juvinall

Love Canal? How about all those boys exposed to nuclear blasts in Nevada? All government run. Or Margret Sanger's eugenics trying to rid the earth of blacks? And the democrats embrace her and Planned Parenthood. The left are a vacuous bunch of charlatans without souls.

George Rebane

Re RobertC 1220pm – It’s worth revisiting how a socialist thinks. A socialist actually believes that taxes neither sought nor paid somehow comprise “giving corporations billions of taxpayer dollars”. NYC had NOTHING/ZIP/ZERO before Amazon negotiated the deal to build HQ2 there. Had NYC had the brains to go through with the deal, they would have attracted thousands of new taxpaying workers to their city who would have passed their millions of newly earned dollars on to other local merchants and service providers, and also paid additional millions of new taxes into city coffers. They would have lost NOTHING, and gained everything.

Now, because of some butt stupid, politically correct progressives, the city really has nothing. And those idiots still believe that they did the right thing by screwing up this economic prize for their community. I wonder how many more New Yorkers are stupid enough to support this mistake.

Todd Swallows

Walt 7:05-
When Cabelas went into Verdi, Reno Fly Shop, Silver State, and Mark Fore and Strike went under within a year. When Amazon went into Sparks and Reno, no local business went under because of it. I'm sure you can't comprehend the difference between retail big box and fulfillment services on a local economy Mr. Branson.

Walt

You are one crazy old coot Swallows. There was nothing there. Except Boomtown. Just like in the cold cruel world, adapt or die.

So you going to tell us you don't go looking for the best price?
The HELL you don't.
You still dodge my questions,,, coward,,,. Is gov regulations not the main killer of small business? Do they not get regulated right OUT of business? You think that doesn't cost?
Only those with DEEP pockets and investors stay solvent.
Nope, you won't go there. You want to fixate of the big guys.

Walt

OK Swallows,, Your Lefty whining reminds me of a movie you REALLY need to watch.
"Atlas Shrugged" The kind of Governmental economic utopia you yap about wanting. Nope, no dog eat dog allowed there! It's not PC.
Dare ya'.

L

Sure, George. VDH made it official, a coup has been attempted but seems to have failed. In places the left loves, the perps would be put against the wall and lead administered to the brain.

Most of the players are easily identified by those who've been paying attention. Comey, Rosenstein, Clapper, Brennan, HRC, Strozk, McCabe. Who is ringleader? I think Comey was supposed to be the public leader, but he lost his nerve and handed off to the most likely deep state suspect, the guy who appointed him FBI Director and who he made Special Counsel. So, Mueller, of course. L

L

Put another way, the likely capo is the one who decided HRC was not guilty of literally thousands of felonies with respect to her private server.
L

Bill Tozer

9:26 pm
If I may be so bold. Mr Cross is just picking up where Brother Ben left off before he took his medical leave from this site. That point of departure was the daily railing about the Walton kids. The Idle Rich, inheritance kids, trust fund babies with ungodly amounts of money....while (here comes the kicker)...while Wal-Mart employees are paid peanuts and are on food stamps that we taxpayers end up paying for. Slave wages. And Wal-Mart single handily sucked the life out of Mainstreet, USA and that large sucking sound you hear is the vacumning up of all the little Mom and Pop retailers who were once the life of Anytown, USA. Ever read Our Town or see the play? Wal-Mart killed Our Town...Quanity Town. Sucked the life and soul of Small Town, USA.
And to make the whole situation worse and even more diabolical is the fact that municipalities gave Wal-Mart millions and billions and trillions of dollars of tax breaks with the broken promise of jobs and millions and billions and trillions of revenues back into the city’s coffers. Wal-Mart put the death nail in Our Town, USA.
Those filthy rich greedy heartless Walton kids are so tight fisted that their employees have to go on public assistance just to eek by a most miserable, pitiful, and hopeless existence...with no benefits or human dignity. Then, to top it off, the sales taxes are sent to a faceless corporate Scrouge out of the community. They don’t give back. Don’t Roseville Grass Valley. Don’t Roseville NYC!

Me thinks that Mr. Cross is stuck on Wal-Mart and cannot see that Amazon is not Wal-Mart. Amazon workers work their fingers to the bone and piss in plastic 64 oz. soda bottles to keep working on the line without a break, lol. And don’t believe for one second that 3.5 billion deal sweetener NYC is tossing Amazon’s way will ever result in the promised 27 billion in revenues back into the Big Apple’s pockets over a 10 or 20 year period. It will ever materialize! It’s a scam! Giving the richest man in the world billions? And Bezos is ANTI-UNION!!! Oh, the horrors, the horrors. It’s beyond immoral. Greed! Profits ahead of people.

Think that covers it. At least Brother Ben put his money where his mouth is, went off to support Bernie in Philly and jumped behind Jill Stein to rally the local troops for the cause. And Brother Ben paid his workers well and fair and has a big heart. The others are pretenders, just mouthing the words and enjoy wallowing in moral outrage. Stuck there. It’s Cross’s drug of choice: Now, I do think that really covers it.

“I WANT TO PUT A TAG OF SHAME ON THE GREEDY BASTARDS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i2JR3FmvVAw


Russ

From City Journal:

New York State can ill afford to thumb its nose at 25,000 well-paying jobs, which would have produced billions of dollars in tax revenues and contributed mightily to the local economy. The state is losing residents to out-migration and now faces a revenue gap of $2.3 billion from the exodus of high-earners to Florida and other low-tax states. Critics of the Amazon plan can rejoice in their success in having prevented economic development in a moribund area of western Queens. They have preserved stagnation and called it progress. Nice work, guys.

Seth Barron is associate editor of City Journal and Project Director of the NYC Initiative at the Manhattan Institute.
https://www.city-journal.org/amazon-cancels-queens-hq?

Walt

What has been missing here?? Notice non of the LIBS are saying Trump is going down? "Frog walked any day" .. "Dragged from the oval office by the short and curlies kicking and screaming".
Muller was their GOD..
Now,,, nothing. Like it never happened. Not a peep.

Two years of hope and LIBBY dreams... crushed. This is where I say,,
TOLD YA' SO.....

Bocephus

,,,it doesn't always turn out to be totally fantastic for the locals when big government giveaways bring new industries to town,,,

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-02-06/inside-wisconsin-s-disastrous-4-5-billion-deal-with-foxconn

Bocephus

,,,The are not the economists the Roundtable are looking for (((Starwars joke!!!)))

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/upshot/amazon-foxconn-subsidies-critics.html

Bill Tozer

Re: Mueller: “All kinds of rumors are flying around from the imminent termination of the investigation, that most of his lawyers have already been reassigned or left, there will be no final report (at least not one released to the public), to God knows what. Has any reader found anything that looks like it's definitive and/or reliable out there on the web?”

Short answer: no

Longer answers: Per the Special Counsel statute, the report goes straight to the Atttorey General. No public release by Meuller, no intern report. Now, what the AG does with that report is up to him, not Mueller. This is assuming that Meuller follows the DOJ guidelines and procedures, and statutes. Big assumption.

With that said, I feel my feelers are pretty good and mum’s the word. I knew from someone in the room (off the record) that Rosenstein was not joking about carrrying a wire on Trump...weeks ago. Had to wait until McCabe’s release yesterday to mention it. And if I heard anything relating to your question, I would damn sure not release it here first and have the G-Men knocking on your or my door. :)) I know nothing. Read nothing.

George Rebane

BillT 1018am - Sorry if my 'release to the public' was confusing. Of course Mueller will submit his report to the DoJ where further edits, redactions, and releases will be decided, unless of course one of Mueller's worthies decides to short-circuit the whole process and put it into the NYT's or WaPo's email box.

Bill Tozer

Dr. Rebane.
No, Good Doc, no need to be sorry at all. You clearly asked if anybody has read anything (credible) on the web to shed light on the winding down of the Mueller probe with all these rumors and fakenews stories swirling about.

Sadly, I just wanted to brag. Haven’t a clue. Unless he passes off Roger Stone and Flynn and some others to District prosecutors, who knows? Flynn due back in court in March....keeps getting postponed since July...of last year!

I just wanted to brag about feelers. I feel shame.

Bill Tozer

Re: Amazon and the New Deal:
When the government hugs big business, big business hugs back, and its embrace leaves the rest of us in the cold.

“But what’s just astounding to me is how Democrats can (almost in one breath, figuratively speaking) champion a Green New Deal that would use the powers of the state — taxes, subsidies, regulatory bullying, etc. — to herd whole industries into alignment with their vision of a just and green society, and at the same time denounce these very tactics when actually put into practice........

“The Amazon deal would have created some 25,000 jobs with an average annual salary of $150,000, but AOC was against it because the agreement amounted to “creeping overreach of one of the world’s biggest corporations.”

“Maybe it did. But I have news for AOC and others trying to use the precedent of the original New Deal as an excuse to get the band back together: This is how New Deals work.

“The original New Deal was a bonanza for big business. In their effort to mobilize the U.S. economy to fight the Depression, the New Dealers favored big businesses and “associations” — cartels, guilds, syndicates, etc. — at every turn. The largest corporations individually or in association wrote the “codes” — i.e., regulations — of the National Recovery Administration and other agencies for their own benefit. It was all done in the name of efficiency and progress.”

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/new-deals-only-big-business-wins/

George Rebane

Bocephus 1236pm - Are you saying that you are as stupid as AOC? NYC had nothing to give away, and everything to gain. If you cannot see this, then sadly you will now occupy a lower level of the cognitively dysfunctional in my pantheon of such folks.

BTW, ever wonder why you of the Left frequent RR when you have such a low opinion of what is posted here, of your commenter counterparts, and, of course, of me as your host. You all ascribe RR as an inconsequential, ignorant, and perhaps even evil voice that has no significant readership of note. Why then come, bereft of ideas, and to only trade insults? Whose minds are you seeking to change, and what readership are you remarks intended to impress in this venue?

Bocephus

,,,These are not the economists the Roundtable are looking for (((Starwars joke!!!)))

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/upshot/amazon-foxconn-subsidies-critics.html

Paul Emery

George writes "ever wonder why you of the Left frequent RR when you have such a low opinion of what is posted here"

It's pure sport George. I get a kick out of it when I'm in the mood.

Todd Swallows

I come for the same reason I go to the petting zoo or watch Dr. Oz. Light entertainment.

I think there is one, and only one person, on this board pompous enough to truly believe that he is changing minds or impressing anyone. People who spend years living inside their own blogosphere tend to be like that.

Todd Juvinall

If Paul Emery on;y knew how we all love setting him up for mockery. What a hoot!

And TS 244 likes to watch the animals in the petting zoo trying to get dates. Too funny!

Bocephus

George,,,These are not the economists the Roundtable are looking for (((Starwars joke!!!)))

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/upshot/amazon-foxconn-subsidies-critics.html

Todd Swallows

"likes to watch the animals in the petting zoo trying to get dates" Maybe you should be on Tinder rather than Rebane if that's all you can think about. It must be hard being so old and so lonely.

George Rebane

Well then gentlemen, since you have no intention of contributing to the serious discussion of issues here, you will not mind if we then treat your comments as the effluent you intend for them to be. Thank you for the clarification.

Todd Juvinall

Someone reported that Pelline has finally reported the true news from the Covington Boys incident. The fake news exposed once again.

Bill Tozer

Todd J,
Did you leave Swallows are the alter? Hell hath no wrath like a woman scorned. Don’t know what it is about ya Todd J, but you attract some of biggest weirdos around. Turn on the light and one attracts all sorts of bugs. Some are kinda freaky. Groupies.

Re: Update. The depth of AOC stupidity


https://m.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343/1547504805383551/?type=3&source=54&ref=page_internal

fish

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 15 February 2019 at 01:57 PM


Todd.......if jeffy is writing about it and it doesn't have to do with food I think you can safely ignore it!

Todd Juvinall

Bill Tozer | 15 February 2019 at 02:09 PM
I get this from jilted babes and men whose former mates were my dates. They follow me everywhere. Cracks me up but pisses off GeorgeR. Sorry. Anyway, I do have a large following that just have to be jealous of my success. I first experienced this when I was elected in the eighties. I had stalkers trying to get stuff to use against me just because I defeated their ECO candidate favorite gal.

Pelline is a big nothing so you are right FISH.

George Rebane

Posted topics, gentlemen. Posted topics please.

Todd Swallows

Bill-
"Don’t know what it is about ya Todd J, but you attract some of biggest weirdos around."

Juvinal reminds me of the kid who always had a "kick me" sign stuck on his back. He could never figure out why people were always kicking him, but since it was the only way he could get attention, he learned to enjoy getting kicked. Look at his avatar and you can see he didn't finish washing the L off his forehead.

Paul Emery

George

Can you conceive of how anyone could have an intelligent dialogue with the likes of Todd the Stud, Sputtering Walt or Biker Bill? I reserve them for sport. You and I have very good conversations in person but that does not translate with several of the denizens that populate your blog.

Bill Tozer

AOC is just a product of her environment

While imprisoned he wrote on matters relating to politics, education, and culture. One of his most famous writings dealt with the role of intellectuals in society. Know him or not, the American media and institutions of higher education have become conduits of Gramscian Marxism. According to Gramsci, the role of the intellectual was to raise the consciousness of a particular oppressed underclass, showing them—as they are incapable of achieving this enlightenment on their own—their place within the structure of society.

Per Gramscian feminism, women are incapable of realizing their supposed oppression without the media leading the way. Per Gramscian counter-racism, minorities are equally incapable of realizing their supposed oppression until the media acts as their vanguard. Per Gamscian religious understanding, religion was a barrier to the poor’s liberation until the media brought awareness to the wealth and power held by religious institutions at the exclusion of the laity. All things considered, there is a certain irony involved in upperclass Whites leading the revolutionary vanguard to awakening the oppressed underclasses needing to be awakened from the realities of their systematic oppression.

Furthermore, the intellectual was also seen as the organic head of the otherwise disposed body of this abused and oppressed group. While it is true that Gramsci’s oppressed group the intellectual brought the light to was the working-class in his day, the general dialectic of master-oppressor is at the basis of the capitalist-proletariat dialectic and all subsequent iterations of it. The intellectual, then, is tasked with the burdensome responsibility of articulating what the oppressed underclass could not on its own. The intellectual, in today’s climate, is also tasked with the responsibility of identifying those groups who are oppressed and which groups are the oppressors.

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/media-enemy-people

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 15 February 2019 at 03:27 PM

You and I have very good conversations in person but that does not translate with several of the denizens that populate your blog.

....and here you are.....almost every day.


Really Punch......earlier today it was fun commenting here......now more whining to George about the participants.

Honestly you’re as fickle as a woman!

George Rebane

PaulE 327pm - It is sad. I don't know how you and Todd et al got into the mudball mode of exchanges. It's all in the record here, but no one will take the time to dig out who did what first. But it's clear to see how it continues. I've been thinking of the pros and cons of going into a comment moderation mode - the downside clearly is the removal of spontaneity and timeliness of responding to issues that constantly arise in the news. Moderation also requires more work on my part.

I think RR readers appreciate most the thought out comments and responses, no matter what their ideological basis. And the rest of the exchanges are just kindergarden shit for most readers who have to wade through them to discover something substantive. And there are at least as many conservative as liberal commenters who seem to get their rocks off tossing mindless mudballs back and forth. For me, I don't mind a sharp repartee thrown into the middle of a substantive reply, but just naked mudballs back and forth doesn't reflect well on the participants. If you call someone a scumbag, then substantiate it. But he's not a scumbag just because your pompous ass calls him that.

Bill Tozer

How dumb is AOC?

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/02/how-dumb-is-ocasio-cortez.php

If NYC had decent schools, a subway system that was not falling apart, safe neighborhoods, and clean sidewalks to walk on, then the city would not to bribe Amazon to come there.

Paul Emery

George

Is this not the rant of a scumbag?

Todd writes:

"Trump is a stud, a rich guy and famous. Women want what he has. They give what they have. "

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 31 March 2018 at 09:24 PM

scenes

George:

" I've been thinking of the pros and cons of going into a comment moderation mode - the downside clearly is the removal of spontaneity and timeliness of responding to issues that constantly arise in the news."

Any chance you could moderate in everything but the Sandboxes? Todd and Paul could have their luvfest but the threads with a topic might be spared that extra bit of magic.

I doubt it would take too many deletes. People hate losing their preciously typed words to the trash.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery | 15 February 2019 at 06:25 PM

Still true today. Thanks.

George Rebane

scenes 711pm - It's good idea that I've also thought about, but the problem so far is that 'moderate' is a blanket function for the whole blog - I can't cherry pick posts. I'll do more digging, maybe Typepad can be talked into providing that capability.

Bill Tozer

If everyone, including moi, would keep the mess confined to the Sandbox, then all would be much better. Swallows following Todd everywhere Todd J posts on RR to keep a running dialogue going is an example. Keep it in the Sandbox. Sure, there are times one forgets where one is, but if a mud slinging bstarts in the Sandbox then keep it there and wait for Todd to return rather than take the Sandbox conversation to topic posts to get the last word in. There is an old saying that it's OK to splash in the mud, just don't splash those around you. If one just has to splash those around him, then do the splashing on others in Sandbox...or at least splash others on topic outside of the Sandbox. This post has 3 topics and none of the topics are Todd J or puffery or high school.

George Rebane

BillT 938pm - thank you Mr Tozer.

Bill Tozer

O my, is she ever a blabbering idiot or what?

http://dlvr.it/QyzSr6

Bill Tozer

Talk about having a screw loose, this is a walking disaster. Now she's screwing over the people in
her community that were 87% behind Amazon coming to their district.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/16/aoc-is-destroying-opportunity-for-fellow-democrats/

scenes

It seems to me that Ms. O-C is just following a bit of natural human behavior.

. It's lots and lots of fun to be newly powerful, be interviewed, be in the middle of things, regardless of whether you know what you are doing or not. Extra bonus points for being fairly young.

. It's a lot easier to kill something than it is to make something happen. The New Green Deal will never occur, but it's comparably trivial to put sticks in spokes.

As one of the new voices for the Left, you'd think that the local Blue Mob would defend her a bit, but they'll always fall for the same trap as AOC. The KVMR crack news desk will spend 99% of their words attempting to tear down the arguments of others rather than making their own. Maybe it's just baked into the cake.

Bill Tozer

The Parade of idiots marching off the cliff? Who will be the go over, who will be the first to follow. A little diddy about Cortez and Omar.

Think AOC has fallen into the trap that has ensnared a long line of people with more talent, prestige, power, influence, and celebrity status than her. That trap is believing one’s own hype. The roving eye of fame is a fickle mistress.. Ilhan Omar has already committed a fatal error by the way she went after Cold War Warrior Elliot Abrams on events that happened 37 years ago and her fierce defense of the current Venezuelan Dictator Loco Maduro. It’s all America’s fault.

“Regardless, let’s look at the rap on Abrams’ time as a cold warrior. Omar (D-anti-Semite) has accused the Jewish Abrams of supporting “Guatamalan genocide.” She also brought up...... “

Now, the Deep State of the Party of War remains alive and kicking no matter who is in the WH, no matter who is power, no matter if the particular member of the 5th Branch of the good ole boys club leans a bit left or right. They all have long memories and while Omar was ruthlessly dissing Abrams, Chuck Schumer’s voice came to the forefront of my mind. To paraphrase,
“You mess with those boys and they have six ways to Sunday to get back at you.”

Did not sit well with the Establishment. This will not be forgotten. Omar was believing her own hype, her own bull crap, and overstating her own worth. No one is exempt from being expendable. Fewer still are Untouchable.
———
Gregory brought this up one time in a brief comment after the release of The New Green Deal...and no comments or feedback. Perhaps he was/is correct, perhaps not. Perhaps it’s worth another consideration after the No Amazon in Gotham City victory dance. Many miles to go to between now and Nov. 2020 and many pitfalls along the way.

http://thefederalist.com/2019/02/14/scuttling-amazon-deal-aoc-just-opened-primary-challenge/

Omar, the newest Hate America First member.
http://thefederalist.com/2019/02/14/rep-omars-silly-attempt-to-revive-debates-over-cold-war-policy-in-central-america/

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2420343848039964&set=gm.629044600883987&type=3&theater&ifg=1

Paul Emery

George

Speaking of Socialism for the rich how about Trump and the Republicans giving $500 million in tax breaks to GM who then give their GM ne CEO Mary Barra $22 million in compensation. Direct subsidy for the rich at the expense of working class taxpayers who could have had lower taxes.

Socialism for the Rich

Walt

Now Emery is trying to redefine socialism....
If GM wants to self destruct, that's their business.
Trump won't bail them out like your boy "O" did.

George Rebane

PaulEl 347pm - Not at all Paul, but I’m going to leave it as an exercise for you of the socialist poor to figure out why this was not “socialism for the rich” and why the CEO’s compensation was not paid for by the “working class taxpayers”. All you have done here is correlate two disparate monetary events with a good dollop of class envy. Hint: Did not GM behave exactly the way the federal government wanted it to behave through its tax law inducements?

If you don’t understand that kind of government control, then you should at least understand through self-reflection why socialist countries never permit the generation of wealth, and ultimately must resort to tyranny to control their ever more disconsolate citizens.

Paul Emery

George, I disagree. GM received subsidies from the US taxpayer that could have gone to subsidizing health care or lower taxes for the middle class instead of assisting in the 20 Million dollar bonus for one individual. What pot of gold did that subsidy and tax break come from?

There you go again George with your worn out card about so called socialist countries resorting to " tyranny to control their ever more disconsolate citizens"

Are you contending that is going to happen to the various countries you consider socialist that make up Western Europe? Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Ireland and Sweden to name a few?

Walt

Blame your boy "O" Emery. It wasn't called GOV. Motors for nothing.
Trump didn't screw over the bond holders,, "O" did.
"O" is the one who turned GM over the the UAW.

The U.S. government lost $11.2 billion on its bailout of General Motors, according to a 2014 government report. The government invested about $50 billion to bail out GM as a result of the company's 2009 bankruptcy, and at one time held a 61 percent equity stake in the Detroit-based automaker.

But blame Trump.. That's all you got.
Read it and weep.
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/11/28/trump-says-gm-should-repay-u-s-taxpayers-for-bailout/
"WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump said on Wednesday that General Motors should pay back the money the government spent to keep it afloat as part of the auto industry bailout.

"If GM doesn't want to keep their jobs in the United States, they should pay back the $11.2 billion bailout that was funded by the American taxpayer," Trump, angry about the automaker's decision to close four plants in the United States, said on Twitter."

Care to pick another "socialism hill" to plant your flag to die on?

Walt

OK Emery, Sweden you like? Pay up.
61.85 percent
Personal Income Tax Rate in Sweden is expected to be 61.85 percent by the end of this quarter, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. In the long-term, the Sweden Personal Income Tax Rate is projected to trend around 62.00 percent in 2020,

Belgian tax rates amount to an effective rate of more than 50% for the highest earners (including social security), compared to an average 45% in Europe.

Germany
Income tax is progressive, starting at 14% and rising incrementally to 42%, or for very high incomes, 45%. The top tax rate of 42% applies to taxable income

George Rebane

PaulE 443pm - You sound like you don't know that a subsidy is not government handing its money to a recipient from some existing stash. A subsidy is only a government inducement for the recipient to behave in a desired way by enticing someone to be able to KEEP HIS OWN MONEY instead of paying it to the govt if he didn't behave in the desired way. I know this is a very sophisticated concept for socialists to understand, because they always believe that all the money in an economy belongs first to the government which some of it its vassals are then allowed to retain .

There is nothing "worn out" about socialist countries resorting to tyranny, it is part and parcel of humanity's bloody history. And the notion is as fresh today as it was, say, during the French revolution.

Socialism is not something from the simplistic progressive concepts of on/off, yes/no, 1/0 that so comforts you and yours. Socialism arrives in a society bit by piece, policy by policy, with the constant siren song that the voter can get something for free, things that are paid for by OPM from less deserving people who for the sake of social justice need to be relieved of it by the govt gun.

And do I consider that this will happen in western Europe as socialism takes of the means of production and distribution, you bet your sweet ass! And as a test, you will see that it is already happening, as the frogs are being slowly parboiled. As we have discussed many times before, examine the history of each nation's nationalized healthcare (or energy industry) with respect to its cost and services delivered - guess which one goes up and which goes down.

Ultimately, when popular grumbling reaches a certain level, to each country will appear a man on a white horse pointing out that the cause of all the suffering comes from this or that ethnic group or simply 'the rich' who must be brought to heel so that better times can return. And to make possible such a tasty omelet, a few eggs must be cracked along the way. But somehow, the better times never do return, but the desire for revolution does. Now what do you think the man on the white horse will do when he smells revolution in the air?

Paul Emery

Higher taxes are a far cry from "ultimately resorting to tyranny to control their ever more disconsolate citizens" as George contends Has that happened in the countries that I cite Walt?

Paul Emery

George

Can you cite a few examples of your 5:05 post that have occurred in Western Europe since WWII?

Walt

Venezuela. One of the richest "socialist" nations.
But Dictator geed means nothing... Right Emery?

Since you love it so much,, MOVE!
Better be sure to stay on the proper side of politics. Your "feelings" may not jive with that "democratic" society.

You can go to Canada and get a fast dose of reality. Your girl Ann Coulter found that out. Remember what they told her? " Your 1ST Amendment is no good here."

Paul Emery

So Walt you contend that Canada "ultimately must resort to tyranny to control their ever more disconsolate citizens"

Are they doing that now?

Who is the"they" you refer to in this statement?

"Remember what they told her? " Your 1ST Amendment is no good here."

Walt

She's your girl Emery, Besides. YOUR the supposed news guy, find it.
Prove me wrong.
It's about time you start trying to sell all the GREAT things Commieism has to offer. You know,, Gov. will take such great care of you, from womb to tomb. Never have a care.
Sell it Emery! Lets have the sales pitch. Try and believe it yourself.

Paul Emery

She's not my girl Walt she's a conservative winger that has turned on Trump which is something we have in common. She's long been a R R favorite

Walt

Yup, dementia signs are showing Coulter has never been even part of any argument, until you dragged her into the picture.. And your the only one who has her doll.. The old mind is making shit up... Just like Mom's did. False memory, Emery. Better find a socialist doc to treat ya.

Walt

Still waiting on the Commie sales pitch.
Still waiting on what your side is going to do to beat Trump.
You should know by now Emery. Question too tough?
or will the crickets do the talking?

Paul Emery

That's it for now Walt. You have no attention span and make things up. Much more interested in the dialogue with George. Have a great night.

Walt

That's Emery. Run when the heat gets too much. As usual you refuse to answer anything. Just bitch about Capitalism. Your halfass questions get some resemblance of an answer. You,, change the subject. So who's attention span is lacking?
Come on back when you have some ammo. We can always talk about all the things that have come back to bite LIBS and you in the ass this past week. Maybe even make up some more bogus accusations against Trump.
Maybe the train to Hawaii?

Scott O

Paul 5:45 - "So Walt you contend that Canada "ultimately must resort to tyranny to control their ever more disconsolate citizens"
Are they doing that now?"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/free-speech-eh-why-is-canada-prosecuting-mark-steyn-1.720445
Oh, they try, Paul - they try.
Macleans and Steyn had to shell out thousands to 'prove themselves innocent'.
Is that the kind of govt you want, Paul?

Bill Tozer

“George

Can you cite a few examples of your 5:05 post that have occurred in Western Europe since WWII?”

How about Greece? Opps, that is not considered part of Western Europe anymore. That be Southern Europe. Maybe a protectorate of the EU. Nevermind. Carry on.

Oh, while I am here...subsidizing energy in Westetn Europe since WW2.

The crash in new installations of course are the direct result of massive cutbacks in subsidies........

“The number of jobs in the solar industry peaked at some 110,900 in 2011, before crashing spectacularly thereafter. In 2015 there were only 31,600 jobs – a roughly 70% plunge. This naturally was a bitter disappointment for the roughly 80,000 people who lost their jobs, but once had been promised a bright, green future by politicians who had touted a grand master plan.

Moreover, almost every single major German producer of solar systems has gone insolvent.

“The solar transformation has failed. Investors are flocking away in droves because of the cancelled feed-in tariffs/subsidies. New additional installations are hardly taking place. The first installations are now being taken offline and the share of solar power in Germany has fallen under 6 percent. The power consumers, who ended up footing the bill for the solar expansion, will however no longer have to pay as much.”

http://notrickszone.com/2018/04/21/green-failure-german-solar-industry-crashes-and-burns-solar-jobs-see-blood-bath/

Later gator...

Paul Emery

Bill

Are you contending that Greece is now a tyranny that fits into Georges scenario that he outlines when he writes about resorting to " tyranny to control their ever more disconsolate citizens"

Also Canada Scott. Are they there yet? I have many friends and colleges that are Canadian and not a peep of concern from them. After all Rand Paul is resorting to Canadian medical care because he prefers it to American care.

Todd Juvinall

After WW@ Greece was in a civil war between the commies and the monarchs. And the monarchs with the help of the British finally won. Stalin was helping the commies. Then the Generals took over Greece. Albania stayed commie until just lately. Yugoslavia was commie until lately. East Germany was commie until 1989. As were Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and almost Austria. FDR kept Stalin out of there. Of course, the USSR finally broke apart and became what 15 nations. So tyranny was the rule not the exception in Europe.

Bill Tozer

20 million! That’s outrageous. 20 mil? I can’t even wrap my head around such numbers. Oh, it’s sickening. And LA gives special breaks to the movie industry to keep them from moving to the studios Francis Ford built in North Carolina or shooting TV series and films in Canada under Lyon’s Gate, which ironically moved from LA to North Carolina back in the day, lol. Have you seen how much those movie stars make?

20 million? Gag me with a spoon. This reminds me when GV gave some ”artist” fifty thousand dollars of OUR taxpayer monies to throw some rusted metal junk in the middle of the new roundabout on E. Main St. Oh, people were pissed off, I tell ya. The consensus complaint on-line was “$50,000! Do you know how many poor folk $50,000.00 could feed! Outrageous!” Most vocal opposition at the time to the thought of flushing good money down the toilet with all the needy poor folks in our community. Indefensible, unconscionable, immoral.

“Is it a little dirty? Sure, so is New York. Ironically, Zuccotti Park, home of Occupy Wall Street, was created as a result of a tax break for a building developer. Make some public space, the city said; we’ll lower your taxes. That’s how it works.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t73mV_-l_ys

Walt

There goes Emery again,, nothing but question marks.
Wasn't socialism GREAT in Greece?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45245969

Emery has not a clue of what he's even trying to push!(Let alone ever going to live under it.)

Paul Emery

Yes, that's history Todd but that has changed. I'm talking about now. Do you think Netherlands for example is going to become a tyranny as George predicts.

Bill Tozer

Greece is a shithhle country and not part of Western Europe. Nobody claims Greece. Too embarrassed, I recklon. Not North Africa, not Europe, not even Crete...so Greece is off the table when discussing “Western Countries” or counties that are considered Developed Western Counties. Like Haiti, it may be in the West, but does fit in the normal discussions of developed Western countries. More like a chronic dysfunctional unemployable bro-in-Law sleeping on your couch. Wife’s brother. Don’t call me bro, bro-n-Law.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/#4b1320a474ad

22 million dolllars! Assisting in the 20 million dollar bonus for one individual? A bargain at twice the price.

Walt

What's Emery still doing here? (And still losing)
And changing the subject.. Keep hopping from socialist nation to socialist nation.
How's France Emery? Ain't socialism GREAT?
You got all vaperlocked because I support the yellow jackets.
Forget so soon?

Todd Juvinall

Oh my, Paul Asks what country's after WW2 and I list them then he says "that's history". That is why no one engages you as you are simply a moronic liar.

Don Bessee

Even the guy who vacationed in Havana is slapping down the littlest congress-commie and you too ya po' ol' fakenewsman -

Bill de Blasio corrects Ocasio-Cortez's claim about spending Amazon tax break money

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/de-blasio-ocasio-cortex-claim-spending-amazon-tax-break-money

;-)

Paul Emery

Sorry you can't follow up on your topic Todd. I'm talking about the present and future not the past. Do you think Denmark for example is going to become a tyranny as George predicts.

Don Bessee

@ 806 said - Can you cite a few examples of your 5:05 post that have occurred in Western Europe since WWII?

That sure qualifies as the past and is a bit of a trick question since all of what you are talking about happened in eastern, southern Europe.

;-)

Paul Emery

Don

Do you think France is going become a tyranny as George anticipates?

Walt

You GO EMERY!!! Keep shifting that goal post with every post.
Welcome to Dr.R's game of whack-a-mole. You never know which "?" hole the ponytail will pop up.

Walt

LOL Emery! It's already there! Try and keep up with what the hell is going on.
Vacation in Paris. The fine smell of burning tires, the eye watering sting of GOV tear gas.
Now can you remind us of just what the people are pissed about?
The socialist Gov. made sure the Guillotine was well secured so the pissed masses don't try are give it some action.

Walt

here's a little tyranny for Emery,, So much for the "right to protest", You know,, that favorite Leftist past time.
https://www.france24.com/en/20190205-france-anti-riot-bill-yellow-vest-protest-macron-parliament-castaner
"French MPs on Tuesday approved an anti-rioting bill giving security forces the power to ban suspected hooligans from demonstrating, in a controversial bid to crack down on violence that has marred Yellow Vest protests over the last three months.

Opponents say the bill, approved by the lower house of parliament by 387 votes to 92, contravenes the constitutional right to demonstrate.

Under its most contentious provision, government officials would be able to ban people suspected of being hooligans from taking part in demonstrations – without oversight from a judge."

The Emery approved government?
This is the "here and now",,, Emery.

Paul Emery

So France is a Tyranny as we speak Walt?

Todd Juvinall

Did you or did you not say after WW2? Yes you did. I answered and you changed the goal posts as usual. You have the mental problem not me.

Bill Tozer

Now, let’s see what started this. The guys who walked away with millions when Solydra failed? No. Top Dog of Fannie Harold Raines walking away with millions when Fannie Mae bit the dust leaving us taxpayers holding the bag? No,
I know, know! It was some lady walking away with 22 milllion as GM is bailed out and still owes the taxpayer money. That’s it. And to think the same group from our peanut gallery here tore Mitt a new one when he said let them go bankrupt. Heck, Mitt knew GM could reorganize in BK court and keep on keeping on under BK protections. But noo. Mitt tied puppies to the roof of the family wagon and has an elevator for his cars in the garage!!! And he murdered an ex- employee’s wife with cancer six years AFTER Mitt sold the company!! The horrors.

Should have gone into BK like Mitt said and maybe a helping hand down the road. But Obama stepped in shortly into his first term right after some Green Libertarian voted for the man and, not knowing nuthin’ about economics (save shaking down businesses and banks as a community organizer),Obama stepped in it with OPM...like our money!!

That is all history now, water under the bridge, or so I thought....until tonight. On any given Sunday.....

Hey, with Obama in charge, not one Wall Street fat cat went to jail. None lost their bankers’ licenses or licenses to be investors or money changers.
No jail time from the top to bottom. All walked even the bond rating agencies . All made whole again...by the tax payers!! Heck, we could have bought Canada for that kind of money.
Obama did not even drive them out of the Temple with a whip like Jesus did. At least G.W. Bush jailed 100 folks and made sure they can never be bankers or evil lenders again after the S&L crisis. To the pokey with them, except McCain. :)

If you want want your liberal blood to boil, watch the Too Big To Jail esposide on Bill Moyers.. if it still is available on line. Oh, found it.
22 million ain’t even worth picking up off the ground compared to them apples. Too big to jail or too big to fail? I want their heads on a platter! If this keeps up, I, too, will be addicted to outrage, but for a different reason. Have you looked at the last spending bill?

https://billmoyers.com/episode/too-big-to-jail/

Walt

Oh. So the months of riots against the gov. is a show a love.
I see you won't answer. Nothing new. Just one more time.
Tell us why they are pissed. Answer your own question Emery.
To hard? or to Liberal?

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