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04 July 2019


The Estonian Fox

On this, the 243rd celebration of Independence Day, let's take a quick review of why we broke away from England.

It seems that Thomas Jefferson had a poor opinion of King George III, all those many years ago. The main problem - poor customer service. We oftentimes seem to receive that same level of service now, but from our own members of Congress. Go figure.

Tom listed 18 different examples of the poor service that the Colonies endured from George. Get out your copy of the Declaration and read them for yourself. See why we are now free citizens, and not subjects.

Is this a great republic or what!

Barry Pruett

Happy Treason Day you damn Deplorables!

Scott O

Let the lefties complain all they want about too much 2A in the celebration. All the 'dialogue' in the world wouldn't have freed our country from tyranny. It's their 1A right. It also exposes them for what they are.
We're off to the local parade. Everyone will stand and doff their hat and hold them to their hearts to honor our flag and the good things it stands for. The whiners can sit at home and carp.
Happy Birthday, United States Of America!

Todd Juvinall

Waiting for the parade! In DC!

Jig Wiggly

As a fitting 4th of July tribute, Trump renames Airforce One Aircraft One. Perhaps after Putin's ride?

Todd Juvinall

Border Patrol men and women are called NAZIs and worse by democrats and the media just prints it. But when those agents do some pushback on the democrats all hell breaks loose in the media outrage. They prove every day why we no longer trust the media. AP is a disgrace. I thought the FB page of Trump and AOC was totally appropriate. LOL!

Bill Tozer

Happy Independence Day all ye ungrateful Colonials. Let freedom ring.


HAPPY 4TH one and all. And don't forget to thank the tool that made it so. The long gun. And salute those who volunteered to take up those arms to make this day possible.
And leave it to a LIB to bitch about both.

Bill Tozer

Barry @ 7:06 am
And a most Happy Treason Day to you!
@ 8:37 am
Look at all the anti-gun folks celebrating the day won by armed citizens.
Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.—Adlai Stevenson.


Is Emery sending a letter of apology to the Queen of England?
Nope, I won't let him forget how HE claimed the Revolutionary war was in his words,,"An illegal war".

Don Bessee

Lets be safe out there and have a deplorably good time!



A day of sad news as well.. SNIFF,SNIFF..... 😲😭😭

Don Bessee

Fly your flag high and proud! A little perspective on the snowflakes melting over the Betsy Ross flag. -

The Anti-Defamation League does not have the particular flag in its database of hate symbols, Mark Pitcavage, a senior research fellow for the group’s Center on Extremism, told the Associated Press. He said extremist groups have occasionally used the flag, but it’s most commonly used by people for patriotic purposes.

“We view it as essentially an innocuous historical flag,” he said. “It's not a thing in the white supremacist movement.”




Stars and Stripes Forever!

Sometimes it helps to listen for a foreigner give their perspectives, and to that end I share the end of a Q&A with Jordan Peterson at the Oxford Union. He's asked by a fellow Canuck what he'd say to the Canadian Prime Minister if he had his ear for a moment.

At one point, while heaping praise on our Founders for developing a system that didn't try to create a Utopia but rather to avoid a road to Hell paved by good intentions, he praises them as being "basically good Englishmen" and knocks down the resultant twittering by the Oxford twits in training.


Don Bessee

From the founding fathers own words -




This is how the LIBS running for President "celebrate"?

Rock Hunter

Pretty sure the 13 stripes of the "Betsy Ross flag" was preceded by the Grand Union Flag. The tale of Betsy Ross is largely myth. All Betsy did was change the stars from 6 points to 5.

Don Bessee

Here is some troll chow for the haters -



Don Bessee

Having done this difficult duty too many times, he nails the description of giving the widow the flag -

I watched through my peripheral vision.

It is something I learned in the military. I learned to stand at attention, look straight forward, but still see what is going on.

And I could see.

I could see the honor guard take the flag off of his coffin.

Their sharp uniforms. Their white gloves.

I watched their crisp, well-rehearsed movements as they went through their procedures.

Without shifting my eyes, I focused back on his coffin.

I was still trying to process it all.

So much emotion, so much joy, so much sorrow, so much light and laughter and love.

So much life.

All now boxed up and silent in that wooden casket.


The honor guard continued with their predetermined movements.

One fold at a time, precise hands moving like professional craftsmen.

As they carry on, the red and white stripes of the flag are consumed by the blue field with its white stars.

The flag is now neatly folded into a thick triangle.

The leader of the honor guard, a second class petty officer, grasps the flag into his hands.

He executes a sharp facing movement, takes a step, and then executes another facing movement.

He is now looking directly at me. Our eyes are locked, but expressionless.

We both know we have a job to do.

He marches forward.

He halts just in front of me.

I slowly and precisely raise my right hand from my side and render a sharp salute. I pause.

I gradually lower the salute and then put my hands out to receive the flag.

He moves it forward into my hands. I clench it.

The flag is heavy in my hands with pain and grief.

I feel the weight, a weight I can barely support as it tears at my soul.

He takes one step back, and renders a slow, flawless salute.

It is my turn now.

I execute a right face. I take six steps forward. I focus on my breath. I clench my jaw in order to get some control over my emotions before she sees my face.

I execute another right face. I am in front of her now.

I take two steps forward. She whispers a quiet moan of anguish.

It is the loudest noise I have ever heard.

I stop in front of her, still looking straight ahead.

I bend down on one knee.

I look at her.

Her heart is broken.

Tears are trickling down her face.

Yet, she smiles at me, as if to say, It’s OK.

I feel my emotions start to rush to the surface. I want to break down and cry.

But there is procedure to follow. I am a military man. I know to follow procedure.

“On behalf of the president of the United States, the United States Navy, and a grateful nation, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation of your loved one’s honorable and faithful service.”

I place the full weight of that flag, with all its agony and torment into her hands.

She looked down at it and pulled it in close to her chest and absorbed it all.

She looked back at me.

I break protocol.
“Your boy was my hero,” I told her. “I loved him and I always will.”

She smiled and nodded. She already knew that.

Her eyes returned to gaze at the heavy flag in her arms.

I leaned in and gently kissed her on the forehead.

The kiss was not only from me. She knew that, too.

I stood back up and assumed the position of attention.

I rendered the proudest salute I could possibly muster.

I took one step back. I performed a right face. And marched off.

I assumed my position back in the ranks.

The guns fired. The bugle played its solemn notes.

My friend was buried in that sacred place.

And above it all, soaring in the sky, was our flag.

Bearing upon it the weight of a million souls who gave their lives for it.

Bearing upon it the anguish of the mothers and fathers who gave their precious children for it.

And yet it flies. And yet it flies.

Carried aloft, by freedom and by the precious memories of those who gave us that freedom.



Scott O

Rock Head 1:15 - Thanks Rocky. What the hell does any of that have to do with people that won't honor our country's flag and the freedom and liberty it stands for?


,,,Trump speech most boring ever,,,lots of name dropping George Washington, Halls of Montezuma, blah blah blah,,,

Trump diaper baby more interesting,,,


Poor Dougy.. You didn't even listen to the speech.
We know you didn't. You didn't catch fire.
Those tanks made you mess your Depends.


Hey Dougy! How bout that Battle Hymn of the Republic?(if you actually watched) Fingernails on a chalk board for ya'?
See the crowd? How many LIBS were in attendance? Just think if those were all Trump supporters.

Don Bessee

A nice positive rendering of honors for great people in name and on stage as well as all the services! -



George Rebane

Great speech, great crowds, great fly-overs – I hope that some such event becomes part of our annual celebration of Independence Day in the nation’s capital, and President Trump pulled it off. In the mean time the anti-American Left, that boycotted the recognition of this event and unbelievably likened the static display of two Abrams tanks and a Bradley to Tienanmen Square, showed themselves to be nothing but 24-carat assholes. Tomorrow we will witness that the progressives and their lamestream lackies don’t even know the meaning of contrition, as one of our leftwingers has already so convincingly exhibited above.

Don Bessee

For those that missed it....



Todd Juvinall

Trump was great. His history lesson was for the idiots like Rock and AV.

Todd Juvinall

Oh my. The poor lamestream media and all those socialists and their mouthpieces were nowhere to be seen in DC today. The President gave a rousing history lesson on the greatness of America and that sent the weasels of the left scurrying back under their rocks quivering. The military was honored and he was praising those that keep us all safe. That alone frightened the left and the lamestream media types. All the scumbags that called him names for wanting a parade must have been sorely disappointed when many thousands showed up to line the pool in front of the Lincoln Memorial. What a wonderful day of remembrance for Americans and we patriots. Sadly the left was absent as usual to anything patriotic.

Hopefully, the people remember all the lies these scurrilous left wingnuts have spewed and keep them from ever gaining power. If they had their way they would have had Kapernick and AOC on the bandstand praising Fidel and Chavez.

So be proud America, we are a great nation. We are a good natrion. We are a brave nation. And we are a kind nation.


The Tienanmen Square mentions were unhinged.

Brickbats to the coverage by NBC News Now that spoke over the band playing Stars and Stripes Forever, the National March written by John Phillip Sousa himself... they just couldn't wait to start talking down what had just happened... a nice solid 4th of July celebration with the President as Master of Ceremonies. A bit of overexposure but it came off OK.

Robert Cross

does anyone think it was an omen that it rained on trump's parade?

Jig Wiggly

Todd 6:33
None is so blind as he who cannot see. I was there. I was not "sadly absent". Either you were blind to the strong left wing contingent or you are lying. You definitely are reporting fake news.
I'm glad you think we have a great natrion. I continue to believe we have a great nation and this great nation will keep Trump on the ropes until we send him packing. To be honest though, I think the next election is for the dems to lose, and I think we'll probably lose it. We have become a henhouse without a pecking order.


Hummm,, the roaches all come out at once.
Trump has been doing GREAT despite the ant Trump LIBS jigged.
"Trump on the ropes"...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sure thing. Keep believing that. You still don't have anyone that can even beat Trump in 2020.

Don Bessee

You should ask a druid @ 7p!

I thought it was great that team Trump kicked tonight's fireworks budget from 280k last year to a million US dollars worth from sponsorships! Hell Ya!


Todd Juvinall

Oh Jiggy you were not there. You are a liar. The libs scurried away when the thousands showed up supporting. Where was your fascist pals antifa? Hiding as usual when the Trump supporters put them down.

Todd Juvinall

As far as raining? You are one desperate leftwing nut BoobieC. The place was packed all good but you just try and poop on everything. You are a sad sack human.

Bill Tozer

What has popped out must today reading articles on the first and last sentences of the Dol is how much the Founders looked to the heavens to a power greater and wiser than themselves for guidance and wisdom as well as being the source of their very existence. They humbled themselves before the Creator. It is said all men of faith of courage.

It’s amazing to ponder of a life, putting aside the DoI, of just uttering the phrase “all men are greater equal” brought forth the death sentence under George III. Heresy to the Crown. The very idea.

The another thing that jumped from the page was Don’s 11:46am.

“But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it.”
— Adams in a letter to Abigail, 1775

Again. “When the People once surrender their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it.”

Ours is a noble cause, it is the cause of all men. The price of Liberty is Eternal Vigilance.

Bill Tozer

At least Jogger @ 7:06 ain’t blind. The Dems look chaotic right now, but they have plenty of time to pull it together. The usually do. BUT, I do think what we are witnessing right now is unprecedented for the candidates to swing this far far left and not try to hide it or couch it. They are unmasked and proud of it. It’s going to be tougher for whoever the nominee is to swing back anywhere near the center to attract the more moderate Lefties, like Jigger, in the General Election. Biden, the old school’s very liberal, may not make it. Changing of the guard. Biden is a blah. The Dems have not run such unapologetic Lefty candidate from the field since McGovern.

But, put all that aside. Clear your mind of that. It’s Treason Day, the 4th of July, Independence Day in the U S of A!!!! Remember it in your own way. It’s all good.

Put politics out of your head. Or, just snipe away of the 4th of July. Fret later.


Bill Tozer

Remember, it you want to wave a Rebel Flag, the original one is the best. :)

Scott O

Gosh - I missed all the excitement. We were at the neighborhood BBQ with home churned ice cream and mucho fire works. So I didn't catch the body count of lefties crushed under the tanks on the Capital Mall.
Maybe Rock Head or AVman can give us the total?
Trump is on the ropes!!
Is that back when he couldn't possibly become POTUS or was that when he wouldn't last 2 months or 1 year or what?
I think what really jerks the lefts' minds around is that they know that Trump just doesn't give a flying fig what they think.

Jig Wiggly

America, the legend lives strong. Betsy Ross Flagg was nothing bt a marketing hoax by her husband. All Betsy did was adjust the number of points in the stars from 6 to 5 to make them easier to cut. 100 years later her great grandson wrote her fictional history, and we ate it up.

Now Trump is claiming we ruled the air and captured the airports in the revolutionary war. And Todd claims libs were absent from DC celebration. It goes on and on.


,,,Posted by: George Rebane | 04 July 2019 at 05:50 PM - - -

Great flyovers??? Bwahahahaha!!!

They have been doing those since the Revolutionary War - - - according to your hero Trumpski!!!

Jig Wiggly

And we ruled the world's oil supply. Todd just lapped it all up it felt so good.

Todd Juvinall

Oh Jiggly, you anti-American commies are just too sad. You can't even let Betsy Ross have her day. You are a sexist pig.

Now we see your brethren American Taliban destroying a George Washinton Mural on a school in SF. Been there 83 years commissioned during the New Deal. So keep trying to destroy America but I and my brothers and sisters will not allow you to do that. Crawl back in your hole.

Bill Tozer

Morning Walt.

Oh, pay them no mind. They are the same bunch that spit on our boys coming back from Nam. Nothing has changed with that bunch. A tiger can’t change its stripes. It’s who they are and nothing nothing nothing will ever change that. Me thinks my stand down orders have expired. :)

I learned something new. Actually two things. With all this pre-glorious celebration talk about Nazis and Dictators, I learned that the Swastika symbol, like flag burning, is protected speech. Much blood has been spilled to protect the rights of wackjobs. It who we are.
The other thing I learned was Betsy Ross was a Quaker. Peace out bro.

“The unhinged media crackpots who spent days trashing the president during the lead up to the Independence Day celebration once again reveal themselves as contemptible frauds. It was a beautiful event. His speech was patriotic and terrific. There was nothing political about it. And our republic was not turned into a dictatorship, at least not by him, as we heard over and over. I can’t say the same for the Left’s intentions and their daily assault on our nation’s institutions. And most of the TV media censored the president’s speech, refusing to cover it in real time despite spending untold hours propagandizing against it and the entire event before the July 4th celebration. Absolutely disgusting behavior yet par for the course.”——Mark Levin.

Yep, par for the course. Hmmm. I thought T Rex and Putin were going to rule the world’s oil supply. :).

Jig Wiggly

And Lincoln hosted Grant in the Oval Office.

Bill Tozer

Squiggly Wiggly,

Don’t you have some soldiers to spit on today? Drugs, sex, and rock-n-roll. Wait, the largest concentration of skinheads in the County are in your neck of the woods. Now it makes since. It’s called projection. “Storm Troopers!” We must stop them!” You arm must be tired from all your salutes to the illiberal. No wonder they kept you away from our children. Who are the real baby killers now, hmmm?

It’s who they are and who we are not.

“We don't pay for cable at my house right now so I was watching the national July 4th celebration from Washington, DC on a Youtube live stream I found that also had a chat feed. No BS! YouTube chat literally blocked the use of the American Flag Emoji on YouTube chat! You read that right! Also many opposed to the celebration in the chat feed were literally calling for youtube to block the live feed. That is literally the definition of of blocking free speech and fascism! Unbelievable! Shame on you youtube!“. —— an e-mail in my in-box

Jig Wiggly

Another rumor starts. "That is literally the definition of of blocking free speech and fascism! Unbelievable! Shame on you youtube!“.

YouTube filtering is not ". . . literally the definition of of blocking free speech and fascism!" It is an expression of YouTube enjoying its first amendment right. Your demand that they kow tow to your own viewing desires is fascist. I would expect a statement like yours from Todd.


YouTube filtering is Corporatism, not fascism, unless there's statements from Alphabet establishing an expectation of free speech by users as a commons in which case its a breach of contract. Or something like that.

So, Jiggy, is corporatism only bad when it's a Koch giving their own money to political campaigns they wish to support?

George Rebane

Jig 901am - What part of the Constitution's 1A describes the prohibition and/or removal of speech as the expression of free speech? It looks like you remain confused. Would you not like to argue your point in terms of property rights (another great cause of the Left), since YouTube's removal/censoring of content is more akin to a homeowner or business determining what signs can be displayed on their property? Give it another try.

Bill Tozer

Hey, telling NFL players to not kneel during the National Anthem is just a private enterprise exercising their first amendment rights as well.

Jig Wiggly

I'm pretty sure free speech includes choosing what NOT so say. Last time I checked, YouTube isn't Congress. Last time I checked YouTube owns their own platform. Last time I checked YouTube can and does filter content displayed on its platform far from Congressional (or Bill's) oversight.

Did YouTube sign a contract with youtube as the players did with their owners?

Jig Wiggly

I'm starting to sound like Todd :-) Sorry

Did YouTube sign a contract with you as the players did with their owners?

Don Bessee

Something else to celebrate -

Nonfarm payrolls rose 224,000 in June, well above market expectations of 165,000, according to the Labor Department.



Todd Juvinall

Oh Jiggly if you sounded like me you would be popular instead of a pariah.

Don Bessee

Who knew 0 was a white supremacist? -

Betsy Ross flag now decried by 2020 Dems, pundits was flown during Obama's 2nd inauguration



Bill Tozer


I just related an e-mail Imgot. Do I believe the government has no business in contracts between private parties? Absolutely. Do I think NFL players can say what they want? Depends on the contract. Do I believe that free speech extends to the workplace while on the clock. Absolutely not. Do I believe commercial speech is not the same as free speech? Yes, in most cases. Do I believe Big Bro should regulate free speech on YouTube or social media? Big Bro is the last person to touch speech on social media platforms. Been on a government site lately? It looks like something out of 1995.

Do I believe that ‘buzz word’ phrases like “threat to the community” or “violates community standards” without citing exactly what words or phrases violated “community standards” and doing so in an arbitrary manner reeks of fascism and it’s evil tendencies? Yes. absolutely yes.......but, we are drifting off topic. The pendulum swings both ways.

1984 is a novel, not a training manual. But, Happy 4th of July, the day after. Let freedom ring. Sweet land of liberty.

George Rebane

Jig 1052am - You continue to enjoy your error that has now expanded to reasoning. There is NOTHING in the 1A that allows Party2 to determine what Party1 may or not say. On the contrary, the entire purpose of 1A is that it allows Party1 to say what he will without being prohibited by Party2 or any third person. Apparently when you studied your Constitution, the educational system was already corrupted to omit that extremely important bit of information.

And with your "I'm pretty sure free speech includes choosing what NOT so say." you totally misunderstand who the 'sayer' is - it is NOT YouTube who only provides a conduit or outlet service to its clients whose speech it merely retransmits. But you do get full credit for correctly stating that "YouTube is not Congress". Unfortunately, that observation has nothing to do with this discussion. Please review the constitutional rights of speakers viz property owners.

George Rebane

DonB 1122am - Apparently you did not take note of this post's update yesterday ;-) But it's always good to remind others similarly disposed.

Don Bessee

Yahoo is no friend of the administration -

Washington (AFP) - President Donald Trump sang the praises of the US military and American heroes of the past two and a half centuries Thursday, skirting politics in a rousing Independence Day speech in Washington.

Trump used the traditionally politics-free holiday to deliver shoutouts to each arm of the military, as well as singling out first responders and the controversial Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agencies that have been criticized for their treatment of migrants.

But he disappointed critics who had warned that Trump, the first president in decades to make a keynote speech on the July 4 holiday, was hijacking the celebration to bolster his own political standing and attack Democratic rivals.

Instead, in a trickling rain, he uncharacteristically avoided talking about himself and his political detractors. He repeatedly ascribed a singular greatness to the country, declaring it "the most exceptional nation in the history of the world."

"Today, we come together as one nation with this very special Salute to America. We celebrate our history, our people, and the heroes who proudly defend our flag -- the brave men and women of the United States military!"



Don Bessee

You tell em girl! -



Bill Tozer

And last time I checked free speech does not descend from Congress or any government agency or branch. It precedes government.....

Now, here is one woman exercising her free speech on July 4th.


Don Bessee

There is still hope for our youth! -

A kid hopped into a Fourth of July parade to help an Honor Guard tie his shoelaces in a viral moment that’s awarded him a police medal.

During Thursday’s Fourth of July festivities in Arlington, Texas, a two-mile march downtown, Officer Jarrick Wilson saw that his shoelace was untied. The DWI enforcement unit officer who works nights signaled the other guards to slow down and while the group was deciding how to juggle their American flags or shotgun, a boy named Josh raced over to help.

A spectator named Wendy Collins Smith snapped a photo and posted it on social media. “We need more of his type in the world!” she wrote about the boy’s patriotism.

Chief Will Johnson of the Arlington Police Department tweeted the photo writing, “Thank you Josh! We should all be so kind. I have a Chief Challenge coin for you.”



Bill Tozer

How many times have I repeated the saying, “My rights do not stop where your feeling begin”? I gotta hand it to the USA, USA, USA! chant haters. Their usually retort to flag waving is “Patriotism is the last refugee of scoundrels.

Learned something new. A Congress critter can slander and lie about and libel anyone from the floor of Congress with impunity. Think of Harry Reid spreading false rumors about Mitt’s tax returns (with witnesses that did not exist) from the Hallowed Chambers of the US Senate. But, that is not new to us. What I did learn is when those empty barrels with AOC went to a detainment camp and accused a Border Patrol agent of threatening them (what, with his retinas?’, at that point the agent could have sued the crap out of them. They were not on the floor of Congress, this not covered. Interesting. Nothing with happen like that, but another bit of useful information to put in the ammo box....just in case.
Man, ole Rafael ain’t going to let the race baiter get away with that, no siree.

Re: update

Well, well, well. Now that CNN & the Resistance News Networks had to admit their days long hyperventilated prediction that POTUS is going to abuse the Capital Mall parade as a political event to feed his overinflated ego......now, that they admitted it was not a political speech, they all agreed that they hated it anyway.

Bill Tozer

Come on Buck, let’s not pile on. Buck sez:


He used to work at CNN. Go figure.

Don Bessee

For those that missed it -



Bill Tozer

I can’t resist piling on. I am such a bully. Me bad. Trump has new name. Mad King. Nice touch for the 4th.

Let’s roll the tape, shall we?



The text of the 1A: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

George Rebane "...the entire purpose of 1A is that it allows Party1 to say what he will without being prohibited by Party2 or any third person. Apparently when you studied your Constitution, the educational system was already corrupted to omit that extremely important bit of information".

No George, it only forbids state actors from abridging free speech. Others, like Google, are completely free on 1A grounds, for example, to fire engineers who speak truth to their power if they don't like the truth.

If someone is speaking over you because they don't want you to be heard, you have to talk louder or give up, not cry 1A, unless there are some more minor civil laws they are breaking. Or criminal assault and battery violations like the fascisti "Antifa" are known to use against conservative gay asian journalists.

Bill Tozer

The 1A, while not specifically mentioned on July 4, 1776 (or July 2 for the purists and nitpickers) is a good topic. Or, this could go under the topic of Anything to Undermind America. Anyway.....

Antifa and Richard Spenser.

“In practice, however, antifa groups tend toward illiberal means to achieve their ends—both historically and at present. In Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, Mark Bray writes that antifa explicitly rejects “the classical liberal phrase incorrectly ascribed to Voltaire that ‘I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.’” According to Bray, “Anti-fascism is an illiberal politics of social revolutionism applied to fighting the Far Right, not only literal fascists.”

“In the antifa view, their enemies started it—by making statements that serve to further marginalize people who languish under some form of oppression. Caring about intersectionality means that an attack on one disadvantaged group is an attack on all. And if it is wise to stop people on the right from speaking against any member of the coalition, then it must occasionally be necessary to silence them when they try to speak. If they will not be silenced willingly, then violence is the only alternative.”
“Based on these findings, it’s hardly surprising that Spencer himself isn’t wholly opposed to violence. “The fact that they are excusing violence against [me] inherently means that they believe that there’s a state of exception, where we can use violence,” Spencer told the Atlantic. “I think they’re actually kind of right.” When asked by a fellow traveler, Gregory Conte, whether members of the alt-right should support free speech as a general principle for the long term, Spencer responded, “No, of course not.”

To drive the point home, I asked Spencer about his attitude toward free speech (and much else; read Chapter Eight of my new book, Panic Attack: Young Radicals in the Age of Trump, for the rest of the interview). He told me he was certainly not for absolute free speech, and he thought the state should have “at least some involvement” in promoting a better society by suppressing dangerous ideas.

“In any case, the idea that certain people do not deserve free speech protections is now as popular among the far left as it always was among the far right. But it didn’t use to be this way: Leftists were once firm defenders of free speech for all, even for Nazis. Amazingly, in fact, when the Nazis came to campus in the 1960s, they did so at the left’s invitation.”


“Anti-fascism is an illiberal politics of social revolutionism applied to fighting the Far Right, not only literal fascists.” ‘Not only literal fascists.’ Let that sink in. Guess it depends on one’s definition of Alt-Right is. Hmmm. You mean like a Washington Examiner journalist or a Muslim limo driver? Like Milo? Like Ben Weinstein? Like Jordan (gasp!) Peterson?

“Antifa = Anti-First Amendment”....from the comments below.


Bill Tozer

Well, when all is said and done......Trump got the idea of a military parade from his visit wirh French President Macron in 2017. Trump was so impressed with the pride the French displayed in their military parade that Trump thought it would be a good idea to bring it to the USA.

And to think all the Stevies of the world are crying out, “ Why can’t we be more like France!” And they are soooo concerned about what Europe, and France in particular, think of us, roflmao.

George Rebane

Gregory 1225pm - We may have to disagree on that. The state has already passed anti-discrimination laws on private businesses that deal in public accommodation services. A user of such an accommodation is not an employee or paid agent of the service provider, on which point you are correct in non-application of 1A.


George 422pm you can disagree all you want... the fact is, the 1st Amendment is not binding on individuals. People can shout you down at will.

Scott O

Gregory - "If someone is speaking over you because they don't want you to be heard, you have to talk louder or give up, not cry 1A, unless there are some more minor civil laws they are breaking."
"People can shout you down at will."
All of us have the right to be heard.
If the govt (supported by money taken from me at gun point) allows some folk to be freely heard while others are allowed to be shouted down, the govt is, in fact, not following the 1st A.
Shouting down someone is not civil nor peaceful nor intelligent nor polite.
Are you saying I have the right to smother your speech?
Yes - a private company can fire some one if that person doesn't follow the company party line.
Good luck applying that to a company that fires a non-white who is a lefty.
That is different from not allowing that person to speak out on his or her own.
The left wing social media have the right to boot anyone that doesn't follow their guidelines.
If you would trouble yourself with the details of folk banned from social media, you would find those monopolistic companies are not truthful about their practices. They still have to abide by contract law and be open and honest in their dealings. Google, Facebook and Twitter - just to name the worst offenders - have been caught lying about their business practices.
Employees that expose bad dealings have been fired.
You would not accept this from your bank or any other financial business, why accept this from these social media companies?

George Rebane

Gregory 740pm - you missed my 422pm argument, I wasn't talking about "individuals".


" All of us have the right to be heard" Scott O

No, none of us have a right to be heard... we just can't be shut up by state actors. And the folks who might want to shut us up generally must pull their punches more than the so-called Antifa do... there's a reason they wear masks. They're willing to fight dirty.


George Rebane "...the entire purpose of 1A is that it allows Party1 to say what he will without being prohibited by Party2 or any third person"

This is patently untrue but is a widely held delusion.

Scott O

Greg - "No, none of us have a right to be heard... we just can't be shut up by state actors."
True to a point. I don't have the right to make anyone listen to me. But I have the same right as anyone else to get my point out at my expense. (I have to buy my own soap box) If we allow the 'right' of some one else to jump in front of me with a bull horn to drown me out, then what follows? Why would not I then have the right to buy a bigger speaker and amp to drown that person out? Where does that lead? This is a downward spiral that descends ultimately into violence.
When the govt uses its authority and muscle to allow the left to shut down the conservative voices (and it does) then the state is now, in fact, censoring and shutting down conservatives.
We do have the right to peaceably assemble and conduct our affairs by the existing laws. The folks engaged in political discourse on social media all have the same rights according to the terms and conditions set forth by the companies running the platforms.
I don't like the idea of the govt being able to tell the private companies who to allow and who to restrict or boot off their platforms. But the govt must be able to monitor those companies to the extent of forcing them to follow their own rules. We must have govt enforcement of all contracts or we fall apart as a nation.
This debate goes even further than free speech. I can't get on a plane to travel unless I pay with a credit card. Some banks are now acting as political agents restricting who they do business with and who they don't based on ideas. If they are allowed that freedom, where does that lead? The banks are federally chartered. We will end up with the govt allowing private parties to shut down all commerce of anyone they don't politically like. If the arm of the govt is going to extend down to all levels of speech and commerce, it must maintain the same rights of all citizens in those areas.

Scott O

Just to be clear - I hope we never have this sort of crap in our country:
It takes a complete idiot to not see the problem.
Unfortunately, we have no shortage of complete idiots.
Just how this French law works with an international information system (the internet) remains to be seen.

George Rebane

ScottO 852am - Could you please be our spearchucker on the development of this issue in France, and report back to us? Thanks.

Scott O

Final vote on the proposed French law is anticipated this Tuesday.
Meanwhile Germany leads the way already.
Interesting quote about the German law -
"“We will add a provision so that users have a legal possibility to have unjustly deleted content restored,” said Johannes Ferchner, spokesman on justice and consumer protection for the Social Democrats and one of the architects of the law. He did not elaborate on how such a mechanism might work. At present, there is no formal mechanism for people to get content restored, beyond complaining to the social media firm involved."

Oh goody! A legal 'possibility'.
How very civil of them. One wonders why this was not baked into the law in the first place. So, maybe they will add a provision that will 'allow' you to grovel before a committee or tribunal of some kind so you can 'prove' your innocence.

As far as I can tell, both the current German law and the proposed French law would hold any internet platform that hosts any sort of content liable for complaints from within their own countries without respect to the nation of origin of the platform or the nationality of the poster of the alleged objectionable content.
One final interesting tidbit for now - "The European Commission keeps under lock and key documents on the Network Enforcement Act which examine the compatibility of the law with EU law with regard to the European Convention on Human Rights and the European legal requirements in the area of "Information Society Services" (e-commerce directive). An inquiry by the business magazine Wirtschaftswoche was rejected, stating that "the publication of the documents... would affect the climate of mutual trust between the member state and the Commission". According to a regulation issued in 2001, the EU Commission is obliged to make internal documents available on request. Wirtschaftswoche writes: "This confirms the suspicion that the law violates EU law, but Brussels does not want to offend Germany".
EU Justice Commissioner Věra Jourová has also criticised the Network Enforcement Act as a source of annoyance to the German government."
More after this Tuesday's vote in France.

Bill Tozer

Hate speech? Not the ACLU!


Scott O

BT - Great video until the end. We're supposed to 'take back' our rights with group hugs? Good luck with that.
The fact that there are people in positions of power in govt and the news media that allow or even encourage violence by the left to shut down speech they don't like was completely ignored. An 'A' for effort but an 'F' for lack of a realistic solution.

Bill Tozer

Scott O. @2:55 pm

Agreed. Taking back our rights is a topic for another day.
I just liked the parts about the LBGTQ leader getting in hot water for using the term ‘homophobe” in Europe, the pro-Palestine students getting axed for targeting a single group of people (Jews), and the ACLU speaker who got run off campus because her group’s history of defending neo-Nazis. I assume the Nazi coddler meltdown was in reference the ACLU defending the right of neo-Nazis in Skokie, Illinois in 1978, home to many Holocaust survivors...or Charlottesville. Too funny, yet very sad. And troublesome, to put it kindly.

But, this is now, that was then. The times they are a’changing.

“For decades, the ACLU has defended the speech rights of far-right groups like neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan on the principle that if those groups' rights are not upheld, the government will try to restrict the free-speech rights of other groups as well..

“In response to the deadly violence at a rally in Charlottesville, Va., last weekend, the ACLU's three California affiliates released a statement Wednesday declaring that "white supremacist violence is not free speech."

“But some emerging factions of the left do not share the ACLU's values on free speech and assembly. Surveys have shown that young people are more likely than older Americans to support a government ban on hate speech, which is constitutionally protected.

"Though his (Milo’s) ability to speak is protected by the 1st Amendment, I don't believe in protecting principle for the sake of principle in all cases," wrote Chase Strangio, who stressed he was speaking in a private capacity. "His actions have consequences for people that I care about and for me."

Time to buy some Betsy Ross flags and tee shirts

“But here’s the thing: When evil people acquire symbols for their own ends, the only guarantee of success is when everyone else validates the acquisition.

“If Nike had gone ahead with the special-edition sneakers, it would have been, in marketing terms, the equivalent of Godzilla versus Bambi. A few neo-Nazis and a few more social-justice warriors would have complained, and everyone else would have gone about their day totally unconcerned.

“Instead, Nike followed the advice of a man whose business model is to stir grievance and controversy for its own sake. Suddenly, millions of people who once thought the Betsy Ross flag was just an admirable bit of Americana now associate it with hate groups. Worse, other entirely decent and patriotic Americans will now likely start brandishing the flag to offend people who, until recently, had no idea some hate groups adopted the flag in the first place.

“The ranks of the perpetually offended will misread this trolling-to-own-the-libs effort as an endorsement of hate speech, and the culture war will have yet another idiotic fight on its hands, and a symbol of the country’s founding that should be a uniting image for all Americans will now be reduced to a weapon in that war..


Happy 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th if you can


Robert Cross @ 7:00 PM

A little rain, which washes away all the mud, crap, lies and garbage that you and your ilk continually toss out. Just a cleansing by mother nature.

Scott O

The proposed French govt internet censorship law passed the lower house on Tuesday and has been referred to the upper house.

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