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04 September 2019

Comments

Russ

Hey Scott, Check this out no significant global warming in Idaho.

https://www.heartland.org/_template-assets/documents/publications/IdahoClimatePB.pdf

Conclusion Weather and climate data show climate change has had a minimal impact in Idaho, and to the extent, modest climate changes have occurred, the bulk of the impacts appear to have been beneficial. Even if Idaho were showing signs of substantial climate change and/or negative climate change impacts, Idaho has already dramatically curtailed its carbon dioxide emissions, which means state government action to curtail carbon dioxide emissions or otherwise address climate change would have extremely minimal climate impact.###

MM

,,,Walmart should be the hero of the Roundtable. Is it???

Big business,,,actually the biggest business,,, didn't need big government to tell them what to do,,,they just did it.

Now plenty of giant corporations are telling the wannabe Wyatt Earps who want to open-carry to grow up and leave their pea shooters in the car when they shop at their stores.

Reasonable people - 1 Wackydoodles - 0

Steven Frisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 07 September 2019 at 08:06 AM

I could cite science up your ying yang and it would not have any effect at all. You and many others here are simply impervious to science that does not conform to your world view.

I do however find it ironic George that you cite as an example of mob mania the braying of "Amen." You don't hear me braying Amen my friend, that is in your house.

Walt

Gotta do better Dougy, That's nothing new. They are just saying "shoot here first", when another crazed Progressive twists off.
You always disappear when stories of good guys with guns is posted, or people protecting themselves with guns.

But do post some proof of your "Wyatt Earp" crap. Haven't seen anything of anyone gunning down a lowlife just walking down the street.

fish

Posted by: MM | 07 September 2019 at 08:41 AM


What happened to “video perv” dugsKKKi. A little to “pants around your ankles” in the Del Oro?

Walt

AHH Frischy... So AGW IS your religion. A manufactured one at that. And the Mann hockey stick is your shepherd's crook.
Love all that "adjusted" data that's in your "bible" that you pray too.

Walt

Hey Frischy,, forget this? The "missing" sea ice, found them
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/30/the-antarctic-research-fiasco-would-you-could-you-in-a-boat/
Since ECO nuts didn't learn the first time,,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/27/another-ship-of-fools-gets-stuck-in-arctic-ice-needs-rescue/

Who knows.. You may have to go on the "Donner diet" this coming winter.

Russ

Frisch@06:47 AM

And, Mother Nature is going to make fools of your and your climate change cult.

According to the ice cores, the planet has been cooling for the last 10,000 years and our current warming in an anomalous spike similar to previous warming spikes, the Minoan, Roman, and Medieval Warming periods. Those warming spikes collapsed into long periods of cold temperatures, and so will the current warming if it has not already started. Details here:

https://sierrafoothillcommentary.com/2019/09/07/mother-natures-cooling/

Russ

Bumped: Hey Scott, Check this out no significant global warming in Idaho.

https://www.heartland.org/_template-assets/documents/publications/IdahoClimatePB.pdf

Conclusion Weather and climate data show climate change has had a minimal impact in Idaho, and to the extent, modest climate changes have occurred, the bulk of the impacts appear to have been beneficial. Even if Idaho were showing signs of substantial climate change and/or negative climate change impacts, Idaho has already dramatically curtailed its carbon dioxide emissions, which means state government action to curtail carbon dioxide emissions or otherwise address climate change would have extremely minimal climate impact.

Gregory

Frisch threatening to cite science "up your yin yang" reminds me of Jar Jar Binks protesting that he can speak as evidence of his being intelligent.

Steve, the science disproving AGW was already in ten years ago; but the science that is apparently coming down the pike now should be discoverable with eyes wide shut... it's hard to ignore shorter growing seasons... and it did take starving farmers in the USSR and China leading to hungry cityfolk to turn the tide against Lysenko.

http://spaceweather.com/images2019/04sep19/TCI_Daily_NO_Power_Percentiles.png

The scientists who projected Cycle 25 being half the strength of 24 have projected 25 will be smaller still leading to near zero for 26 and 27. Cue Der Bingle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9QLn7gM-hY

BTW he was singing about the color of snow, not the only skin color at Sierra Business Council staff parties.


George Rebane

StevenF 846am - Your citations are most welcome; and I wager that they have ALL been addressed by the skeptics. But that has not been reciprocated. What I wonder about is why no prominent proponent of preventable manmade global warming is willing to have a debate on the topic in a prominent public forum with a knowledgeable skeptic.

And as an aside, why do the true believers refuse to acknowledge substantiated skepticism - their uniform response (including yours) has always been to paint the skeptic as a flat earth Neanderthal? That seems to be the only way you folks can maintain your narrative; a reasoned and reasonable debate is out of the question.

J.Barron

Steve-
Anyone can "prove" anything they want simply by using their preferred search words on Google. George, Russ, Scott, etc cherry pick low and rather rare fruit. . . just like Reinette.

Walt

jigged Barron,, "FIRE,,Ready AIM!!" Now read what you just posted... Yet your side can't prove shit using the same.
Hell.. You nuts can't even come up with a good excuse why your wrong.

George Rebane

JBarron 946am - Pray from what school did you learn that little shibboleth of those who cannot prove anything?

Don Bessee

Creepy grampa joe is following the herd now -

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/07/joe-biden-promises-environmentalist-look-into-my-eyes-i-guarantee-you-we-are-going-to-end-fossil-fuel/

;-)

Gregory

GR 956am

I think that would be the U of San Francisco B-school.

This sort of "proof" is just words from people that the writer thinks sound real smart, cut and pasted.

Wikipedia is the new Encyclopedia Britannica, so you don't have to go to the library to crib from them anymore, paying 10 cents per page for a Xerox copy.

Walt

Where is the ECO warriors go? Since they know it all, just what's going to replace fossil fuel?
Come on,, you can do it.(well,,,, maybe not)
Not much news about the pond scum alternative, That blue -green algae is pretty good at killing dogs.
And just what's going to fuel up all the electric cars, trucks and heavy machinery?
So tell us O wise ones.. what's at the other end of that plug?

Maybe all the LIBs blowing together morning, noon and night to keep the windmills turning? You guys are full enough of
hot air just to make that happen.

Steven Frisch

This is not the forum for a debate on climate change.

First and foremost, it is moderated by George, who enforces no standards for the nature of the rhetoric.

Second, it is interspersed with the comments of people like Todd and Walt, who add nothing to any scholarly exploration of the issues and divert attention from the thesis.

Third, there is no impartial 'jury' to determine the efficacy of the cases being made.

Finally, there is no format for determining the quality, peer review status, or aggregate scientific support for the studies or data being cited--such information should be supported by citations of the sources and an examination of the relative reliability of the sources.

On several occasions I have offered to debate this issue in a public forum, under clear rules of debate, with an impartial or at least outside audience. That offer has consistently been declined.

So I will make the offer again. I would be happy to meet Greg and Russ in an open debate (with the partner of my choice) under formal rules of debate, and would suggest utilizing a moderated version of the Public Forum Debate to extend the times.

I would propose the question to be debated is; "Human activity has caused global warming leading to significant climate change, the pace of that change is quickening, and the effects of that activity pose a serious threat to our environment and human life and quality of life."

L

Except for the mandatory innuendo, the De Smog c.v. of Dr. Christy is pretty good, the warmunists here should take the time to read it. And remind themselves that he is the man running the UAH satellite temperature program. That the satellite and weather balloon records (which agree with each other) support the skeptic viewpoint while the warmunists panic is built on unverifiable models, smoke and mirrors, ought to make an impression on the brighter folk on that side of the great divide.

That it doesn't tells us a great deal about the power of propaganda.

While it's on my mind, I think it would be nice if people here would stop accusing naïf Frisch of racism over his hiring practices at SBC. I can think of a dozen reasons for there being no employees 'of color' without thinking anything amiss. I know it's tempting, but please remember the Golden Rule.

Stick with his wrongheadedness about actual things- climate, economy, guns, etc. That should be sufficient task for us.

Steven Frisch

"What I wonder about is why no prominent proponent of preventable manmade global warming is willing to have a debate on the topic in a prominent public forum with a knowledgeable skeptic."--George Rebane

Are you serious George, I have offered such a debate here before, and all declined.

I would be happy to meet you in the public square my friend under rules of order.

(I would require we have a neutral moderator who would actually enforce the rules rather than allowing you to break them as Paul did the last time we met for a debate.)

Walt

That's the spirit Steavy, Get all butthurt when you can't hold your own against an admitted ditch digger.
I work for a living while you have your hand outstretched for free money, since you failed at real work.
You can't back up your AGW horse shit. Russ kicks your ass at every turn.
This isn't COMMIE China where only what YOU care gets said, and other opinion is silenced.Uh,,, "moderated". Welcome to America,,asswipe.

Don Bessee

Comrade Bernie's eugenics train is rolling -

https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2019/09/07/alveda-king-bernies-population-control-will-target-black-communities/

;-)

Walt

Answer up Frisch,, just what will replace oil? That's what your Presidential wannabes are promising.
Your Mr. ECO here, you should have that answer. Just what is going to power the nation? HHUUMMMMM???????

Steven Frisch

Actually Christy's data has been pretty deeply studied by multiple sources and found wanting and flawed.

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JTECH-D-16-0121.1

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2017/may/11/more-errors-identified-in-contrarian-climate-scientists-temperature-estimates

But I am sure the case that will be made here by Greg is that Christy is correct and EVERYONE else is wrong. That is the modus operandi of the denier. .

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Walt | 07 September 2019 at 12:05 PM


Ah, here it comes...can't hack it so attack my employment.


Steven Frisch

Posted by: Walt | 07 September 2019 at 12:12 PM


I have been pretty clear over the years about my opinion about what and how quickly clean energy can replace dirty energy. It will take about 50 years. We can get to about 40% clean in the next 15 years; 75% clean by 2050; and the last 25% is going to be very hard.

Walt

You call that "employment"? Yaa.. You stick with that.
And as suspected, you can't say what's going to replace oil.
CNG comes out of the ground too.
So dodge the question and deflect. The usual response.

Todd Juvinall

Russ just kicks Frisch's ass on the AGW crap. But thankfully the democrat Prez candidates are so friggin stupid they told the truth about their desires on this hoax of "climate change" the other day. Thanks Frisch and all your pals ofor giving the country another four years of Trump!

AVPMM

,,,Posted by: fish | 07 September 2019 at 08:55 AM,,,

Oh dear gun nut Fishstick,,,did my wannabe Wyatt Earp comment hit a little too close to home???

Is this your blog??? Loving your selfie

http://fishnerd.com/

Don Bessee

Its getting downright medieval on skid row in LA LA land -

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-09-06/leprosy-could-be-next-public-health-crisis-hit-los-angeles

;-)

Walt

It's a simple question Frisch,,, where is ALLL that electricity
going to come from??
The elect. buggy TODAY, gets ten miles to a pound of coal.
The Tesla eats 150KW per battery charge. Yup,, there is efficiency for you. You can power a good sized window air conditioner for a week with that same power.
You have any idea how much particulate matter is produced by elec. motors?
Ever seen the inside of a UP locomotive gen. unit? That's not diesel soot.

Yet you want to impose your self imposed guilt trip an everyone.

fish

Posted by: AVPMM | 07 September 2019 at 12:45 PM


Uh no dugsKKKi....Wal-Mart can sell whatever they want.....in fact removing the firearms section should open up floor space for more adult care and incontinence items.

So you got that working for you.

it sounds like somebody might be a little sensitive about his time in the Del Oro though.

Todd Juvinall

Bernie now supports Soylent Green solutions to population. Maybe he could go to skidrow and get two birds with one stone?

George Rebane

StevenF 1159am - You again misunderstand. The ‘prominent proponent’ debate I referred to was one between nationally known advocates of their respected positions. While you may consider yourself such a prominent proponent, that opinion is not shared by many, and I most certainly don’t consider myself of such prominence.

As to debating you in a more limited local forum, that would be fun but of little consequence. For openers, I’m not sure that we could agree on the detailed thesis of the debate - the one you outlined is an example of irresolution in which no one could even agree on terms to argue points such as “significant climate change”, “quickening pace”, “serious threat”, ... . These are the bullshit terms on which the current politicized hysteria has been promoted without anyone defining any of the terms in such a way as to bring science and our state of knowledge into the discussion. For us to have a serious debate on the science of preventable manmade global warming, you would have demonstrate a command of the multiple sciences involved, which you have yet to do in the years you have argued your case on these pages.

Walt

Dr.R... that would take place in a dimly lit room, with only the two or four "invited" discusers. No cameras, no recording equipment.(and we all know why) No way will it be in ANY public setting. The embarrassment of an ECO warrior will not be tolerated. Especially when he picked the fight.

Bill Tozer

Hurricanes: article worth a skim.

https://newcriterion.com/blogs/dispatch/an-overblown-hypothesis
———————————
The candidate’s proposals

“The candidates’ proposals accomplish almost none of these things. Democrats berate Republicans for “denying science,” yet there is little science in their position papers. Instead, they believe the answers to climate change are obvious: mandated technologies—like wind, solar, and electric cars—that we’ve already decided are best. We simply need to restrict behaviors—eating meat, air travel—increasingly viewed as problematic. Rather than looking to markets and science to develop better approaches, they want to impose readymade solutions by fiat.

“There’s another reason we know that these proposals won’t work: they’ve already been tried. In 2011, Germany launched its ambitious Energiewende plan to shift its power grid from coal and nuclear power to “renewable” wind and solar. The program costs some $36 billion annually, and electricity prices have skyrocketed. Yet Germany’s carbon emissions remain as bad as ever, its air is filthy, and coal strip mines continue to eat into the landscape. The project is an epic failure by any measure.

“Most of the Democrats’ climate plans, nonetheless, follow the German roadmap. Warren even vows to phase out nuclear power, currently America’s biggest source of carbon-free energy. A growing consensus exists among energy analysts and climate scientists that nuclear power is a crucial component in reducing carbon emissions. But on this issue, you don’t hear much from the candidates about “trusting the science.”(Booker and Andrew Yang, who take pro-nuclear positions, are brave exceptions.)

“It’s almost as if bringing down carbon emissions isn’t the candidates’ top goal. If you look closely, you’ll see that their proposals are loaded with items only marginally related to carbon emissions: billions for “infrastructure” and new foreign aid, promises to create “10 million jobs”—and let’s make those “union jobs” while we’re at it.”

https://www.city-journal.org/democratic-presidential-candidates-climate-change-plans

Don Bessee

Unlikable squared -

Warren and Clinton talk behind the scenes as 2020 race intensifies
Analysis: Neither camp wants to talk about it, but the two women have recently grown closer.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/warren-clinton-talk-behind-scenes-2020-race-intensifies-n1049701

;-)

Steven Frisch

Actually I could bring someone of much greater prominence than me (which I of course agree is not very great) to the table.

And it's not uncommon to need to zero in on a mutually agreed upon debate question. That is why I used the word "propose."

I would also say that you have failed to prove any expertise in any science either. You do have an expertise in ad hominem insult demonstrated daily. But then I did not make the offer to you, I made it to Greg and Russ.

And Walt, I would be happy to do this very publicly with witnesses, on camera, whatever the heck you want. You obviously did not bother to go read the Public Forum Debate descriptions widely available...they are by definition public.

Here is what I am absolutely sure of. Each of you is happy to blow off a little climate denial bullshit with your buddies...but none of you will ever have the balls to have your beliefs seriously challenged in a fair format in public.

Walt

Listen to the high and mighty one. Your real quick to insult one's intelligence. That's what losers of arguments do.
You have sown no real concept of the ramifications of an oil free economy. Nope, you won't go there. Nor say right here what's to replace it.. Crickets.
All you ECO bastards can come up with is "may, might, could, possibly". Look no further than the chicken little predictions of the last 30 years. Hawaii is still very much inhabitable.
Sacramento isn't beachfront property. And snow is far from a thing of the past in DC.
Yes,, SNOW still in our own high country is a good teller of lack of AGW. Tough titty if that goes against your narrative.
You can't have it both ways.
It's either getting hotter, or it ain't.
But keep dodging facts and reality.
Nope, you ignore the two ships of fools posts. Looks like that missing sea ice found them. Yes, ignore that fact.
Shuck and jive all you care too. your the one looking like the fool.

So just what will be your excuse if this Winter is worse than last year? "It's just weather"?
Yup we had one day this year that broke a heat record.(by 1.5 deg.) It must be AGW.

Bill Tozer

The science is settled. It’s going to be electric car. Solar, and wind...by fiat.

“There’s another reason we know that these proposals won’t work: they’ve already been tried. In 2011, Germany launched its ambitious Energiewende plan to shift its power grid from coal and nuclear power to “renewable” wind and solar. The program costs some $36 billion annually, and electricity prices have skyrocketed. Yet Germany’s carbon emissions remain as bad as ever, its air is filthy, and coal strip mines continue to eat into the landscape. The project is an epic failure by any measure.

“Most of the Democrats’ climate plans, nonetheless, follow the German roadmap. Warren even vows to phase out nuclear power, currently America’s biggest source of carbon-free energy. A growing consensus exists among energy analysts and climate scientists that nuclear power is a crucial component in reducing carbon emissions. But on this issue, you don’t hear much from the candidates about “trusting the science.”(Booker and Andrew Yang, who take pro-nuclear positions, are brave exceptions.)“

https://www.city-journal.org/democratic-presidential-candidates-climate-change-plans

Bill Tozer

Hurricans in the Atlantic. Worth a read or quick skim

https://newcriterion.com/blogs/dispatch/an-overblown-hypothesis

fish

Looks like somebody really, really doesn’t want to be president?


”Sanders’ Latest Terrible Idea: Let Illegals Create Immigration Plan


Are there criminal sanctions for so obviously throwing a presidential election....?


https://lidblog.com/bernies-illegals/


Jig Wiggly

Walt-
You keep whiffing at the same ball.

You don't understand the questions much less the answers. American Rifleman and Breitbart are not considered pillars of science. But you will never understand that because . . . (fill in the blank). You have become fixated on a patch of snow in the mountains above Truckee in 2019 and consider it a benchmark of world wide climate change trends. Chew another plug.

Walt

LOL jiggerd boob , Your just an epic fail. Didn't know snow melts in Spring? Good job there.
All in a tizzy think private sale background checks will work.
Then STFU when a felon gets a gun right here. Funny you sure got quiet on that.
Take another hit of that Dope Vape.

Don Bessee

Hey now senator that's a thin veneer of political correctness that ruptured too easily -

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kamala-harris-apologizes-for-laughing-after-man-calls-trump-retarded

;-)

Gregory

Frisch 218pm

While the concept of a friendly debate is appealing, I can't imagine you would approach it with anything other than your usual rattlesnake self.

I'd not choose Russ to be at my side, or George for that matter. And if you can find someone more suitable a debater than yourself, propose them. You are a non-starter. We can debate here, or another blog. That's it.

The journal article you've cited is by a retired engineer whose research is unknown and is without affiliation and, as far as I can tell, he doesn't claim that Christy's research is, as you put it, "wanting and flawed". The newspaper article is by a professor of mechanical engineering whose PhD thesis is an analysis of an industrial electric oven... while that would make him more interesting than a science nobody such as yourself, I've a good idea that he's also motivated by fear and loathing of people who don't attend the same Church of Our Lady of the Presumptuous Assumption that he does.

The UAH results track the RSS results from the same satellite data fairly well, and they both track radiosonde (think high altitude weather balloon) datasets. And all four of those major datasets are significantly BELOW the IPCC blessed simulation runs.

I'd suggest the question, "Global warming is not a crisis" that was the subject of an Intelligence Squared debate that was lost (very badly, I'm afraid) by a team led by Gavin Schmidt.
https://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/global-warming-not-crisis

Steven Frisch

"So just what will be your excuse if this Winter is worse than last year? "It's just weather"?"--Walt

Well, um Walt, "worse" where? Do you mean globally? in the US? in California? or just Truckee, which you have been using as an example for two days, as though snow fields remaining visible in September means something?

And what do you mean by "worse" do you mean colder? with more snow? or what?

But yes, if it snows more in Truckee next year I will say it's the weather, because Truckee is just one place on the planet, and winters are 'better" or "worse" where I live every year.

That's what weather is Walt. Is that simple enough for you?

Walt

Gotta love the sharpygate. The losing side (the ones bitching at Trump) now say " Politics and weather science have no business being mingled".
Well there you have it.. AGW is nothing more than "political science".
Let the true believers come to grips with that.

Don Bessee

The Taliban must have mistakenly thought they were dealing with team 0 to think a couple of bombings during negotiations would strengthen their negotiating position. -

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-announces-hes-cancelled-a-secret-meeting-with-taliban-leaders-after-car-bombs-in-afghanistan-kill-an-American

;-)

J. Barron

Doesn't Trump understand "the Taliban" stretches across many countries in many, many sects? Completely predictable that negotiations with one sect won't fly with another and a bombing will be blamed on the entire tribe and close negotiations. Trump needs to listen to his advisors and actually read history or else friggin resign. For all he knows the bombing was by Al Qaeda who blamed it on the Taliban?

Don Bessee

Look like its election meddling trouble for the lefty AG in Michigan -

A former campaign staffer for Michigan’s Democrat Attorney General Dana Nessel allegedly said he used Ukrainian hackers to manipulate the election and help Nessel win the state’s closest race in 2018.

The bombshell allegation was buried in a federal extortion lawsuit against Dmitriy Movsesyan, who worked on Nessel’s campaign at various points in 2017 and 2018. (Full disclosure: This columnist funded an independent expenditure against Nessel’s eventual 2018 Republican opponent, Tom Leonard, during the GOP nomination campaign.)

The lawsuit, filed by Executive Car Rental owner Maher Waad in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, claims Movsesyan “boasted of his underworld network of Ukranian [sic] computer hackers, who Movsesyan claimed manipulated the 2018 Michigan Attorney General Election.”

Obviously, this is a serious allegation that should be investigated by the U.S. Justice Department. The Michigan Legislature should also launch an inquiry, though it lacks the investigative expertise and resources for such a probe.

Regardless of his exact title, Movsesyan was paid $21,651 by Nessel’s campaign, according to both state campaign finance records and published reports.

One message included a selfie-style picture of him driving Nessel. “Oh look, it’s your favorite attorney general in my back seat,” Movsesyan is accused of texting.
It is far too early to know all of the facts, but this allegation has potentially wide-ranging implications, not least because Nessel has been relentless in carrying out a hard-left agenda.

Nessel’s greatest hits since taking office in January have included launching a special unit to surveil political opponents under the guise of so-called hate crimes, declining to enforce laws that conflicted with her ideology and uniting Muslims and Roman Catholics to denounce her threat to religious freedom. Even liberal writers have described Nessel as “brash” for turning “her liberal politics into policy.”

Perhaps what is most astonishing about this latest allegation is the almost complete silence from the Michigan press corps. Only the Detroit News picked up the election manipulation allegation in their story about the extortion lawsuit.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/06/dennis-lennox-michigans-democrat-attorney-general-dana-nessel-caught-up-in-election-manipulation-allegation/

;-)

Don Bessee

The troll babbles and flashes the ignorant light, the Taliban spokesmen claimed the attacks and said they were to gain leverage braniac. -


""Unbeknownst to almost everyone, the major Taliban leaders and, separately, the President of Afghanistan, were going to secretly meet with me at Camp David on Sunday"

;-)

Walt

Don.. The Ruskies helped a LIB win? No biggy. It's all good.
It's just fine when that happens. Kinda like when "O" believed the Ruskies were in Hillary's camp.(and did jack shit)

Walt

AAahhhhhh Two more AGW intilecuals who just have to add their two pence. Two washed up hasbeens.
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2019/09/07/mick-jagger-blasts-trumps-polarization-rudeness-and-lying/

Bill Tozer

Mick Jagger won’t be around for ever.

https://theweek.com/articles/861750/coming-death-just-about-every-rock-legend

Walt

Bill. Doesn't he have a Brexit to bitch about?

Russ

Frisch@02:18 PM

What is there to debate the climate data is what it is. The planet has been cooling for the last 10,000 and will continue to do so, with periods of warming and cooling like it has for thousands of years. Some of the cooling periods have brought great misery to all the living things on the planet, whereas the warm periods have promoted great human achievements. This climate history is written in the ice cores, geological formations, campfire stories, letters, journals, and early efforts to record the weather. Want is there to debate? The motives of the letter writers, the journalists, the scientists? The validity of climate models? “A model is a theory, a hypothesis. A model that is falsified by observation is a wrong hypothesis. That really is all there is to it.” Dr. Christy demonstrates the models are invalid using multiple sources of real-world data. What is there to debate?

J. Barron

"What is there to debate?"

Dr. Christy.

Bill Tozer

Hurricane Hypothesis

https://newcriterion.com/blogs/dispatch/an-overblown-hypothesis?

Walt

Come now j,, you have never even heard of the guy before today.

But tell us when the climate didn't change.
What influences the temp on earth more? Swamp gas or the Sun?
You do realize the sun is in it's cooling trend? Now just what do you think will happen here?

Looks like Winter is going to be early this year. You going to heat inefficient electricity? That should cost you plenty.. Get used to paying plenty more when your Proggys actually end the use of oil. Then what will you do? (and it will be plenty colder)

Jig Wiggly

Wally-
What part of a backhoe school taught you about climate science? You believe a 2019 snowfield in Truckee says anything about climate on a global level? You must also believe Mexico will pay for the wall, and Alabama was ground zero for Dorian.

If there is any weight behind your belief, George and Russ will step in and corroborate your connection between global climate science and your Truckee snow patch with papers. My guess is you will hear crickets as they leave you high and dry to rot. If they do corroborate we might consider the validity of your observations, if they don't, I guess they and we believe you are full of shit. Absent validation, the RR crowd will be mollified to be associated with the likes of you and Todd.

Hitching your cart to AGW denial should be embarrassing at the least.

Maybe raking goose shit for the beautiful people at Lake Wildwood will put you into the zen and you can understand climate change. Tell us about it.

Don Bessee

The socialist dems running for prez on the green new deal would have you give up everything from bacon cheese burgers to cheap and clean American produced natural gas. Screw the energy workers and their families. But when it comes to focusing on what REALLY kills people the numbers don't fit the failed anti gun narrative.

--------

For those who argue that rifle deaths ought to be compared to deaths by other voluntary activities, rather than disease, consider the following six examples:

1. Daily Drunk Driving Deaths: 29
2. Daily Deaths from Crossing the Street: 16
3. Daily Distracted Driving Deaths: 9
4. Daily Deaths by Knives and Other Sharp Instruments: 4
5. Daily Deaths from Bicycles: 2.7
6. Daily Deaths by Hammers and Other Blunt Objects: 1.27
Again, the daily number of deaths from all types of rifles combined is 1.1.

Yet the Socialist dems weak governments in the American shit holes will not just enforce the law and they wonder why they are where they are. Soros funded DA's across the country are doing this perversion of the DA being a SJW and no longer the VICTIMS ADVOCATE DUH!

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/06/18-daily-causes-death-americans/


;-(


Gregory

Jiggy Wiggy 916pm

"Hitching your cart to AGW denial should be embarrassing at the least."

That's the bullshit shame game being played by Warmistas... it keeps a lid on people straying off the reservation.

Walt

That's the jiggered one for you. Full of 💩 as always.
Coming up with an answer for anything is above you.
Stay stupid TROLL. Try reading a book someday.
Your better off using that computer your blathering on for porn.

L

Russ @ 7:44 That really says it all. Unfortunately, the climb-down for these people is incredibly difficult to contemplate.

So they are going to continue to refuse to understanding because their very purpose in living depends upon them not understanding what the facts uncontestably say.

L

1. It's not getting warmer at an alarming rate, nor is it accelerating.
2. The Modern warm period hasn't reached the high of the Medieval, as attested by Greenland and English wine no longer available.
3. The last cold interval was named Little Ice Age for a reason- it was the coldest spell since the onset of the Holocene. For those with ears: The system is cooling back into another ice age, an era that will only end with galactic rearrangement (Milankovich cycles).
4. CO2 is a huge benefit- vegetation up 15% over the last thirty years, crops at record levels despite shorter gowning seasons, etc.

Gregory

L 1043pm

"Unfortunately, the climb-down for these people is incredibly difficult to contemplate"

But the need to contemplate a collapse in their belief system is at hand.

L

5. Per GW theory, temp increases have been at high latitude and at night, both human friendly developments.
6. The resultant decrease in the temperature differential between the polar and equatorial regions is exactly why hurricanes are declining in total energy and frequency. Don't believe it? Look it up.
7. Sea level rise is a feature of the Holocene and will end with the Holocene. It is not accelerating and it is still short of the Emian highstand ca. 100kya.

L

8. The US declined to ratify Kyoto, but tuned out to be the only major country that met the stated goals of the agreement.

9. The US has withdrawn from the Paris Accords agreed by O but not even submitted for ratification. It is, however, the only country in the world to have made any major progress in reducing CO2 emissions. Thank God doing that doesn't matter, except as a form of useless virtue signaling.

L

10. Current CO2 is (from memory) about 410 ppm, up from 280 ppm at the opening of the Industrial age in the late 18th C. Considering plant preferences and Earth's history, that was a low figure. During the Wisconsin Ice age, it dropped perilously close to a level at which photosynthesis ceases, bringing life on Earth to an immediate end. Commercial greenhouses prefer 1100ppm for maximal production.

L

For chemical reasons, carbon is the building block of life and CO2 gas is its best means of distribution. Unfortunately, a great deal of it is taken up by a cold ocean and converted to limestone.

Our miniscule (we emit less than 5% of Earth's CO2 turnover) addition is a net plus in freeing up the carbon our weather cycle is so willing to remove from circulation.

Don't worry, be Happy!

Russ

Steven Frisch, as a person interested in the science of AGW and the influence of CO2 I suggest your read this just published paper and give use your opinion.


Propagation of Error and the Reliability of Global Air Temperature Projections
Patrick Frank

SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory, Stanford University, Menlo Park, CA, United States

The reliability of general circulation climate model (GCM) global air temperature projections is evaluated for the first time, by way of propagation of model calibration error. An extensive series of demonstrations show that GCM air temperature projections are just linear extrapolations of fractional greenhouse gas (GHG) forcing. Linear projections are subject to linear propagation of error. A directly relevant GCM calibration metric is the annual average ±12.1% error in global annual average cloud fraction produced within CMIP5 climate models. This error is strongly pair-wise correlated across models, implying a source in deficient theory. The resulting long-wave cloud forcing (LWCF) error introduces an annual average ±4 Wm–2 uncertainty into the simulated tropospheric thermal energy flux. This annual ±4 Wm–2 simulation uncertainty is ±114 × larger than the annual average ∼0.035 Wm–2 change in tropospheric thermal energy flux produced by increasing GHG forcing since 1979. Tropospheric thermal energy flux is the determinant of global air temperature. Uncertainty in simulated tropospheric thermal energy flux imposes uncertainty on projected air temperature. Propagation of LWCF thermal energy flux error through the historically relevant 1988 projections of GISS Model II scenarios A, B, and C, the IPCC SRES scenarios CCC, B1, A1B, and A2, and the RCP scenarios of the 2013 IPCC Fifth Assessment Report, uncovers a ±15 C uncertainty in air temperature at the end of a centennial-scale projection. Analogously large but previously unrecognized uncertainties must therefore exist in all the past and present air temperature projections and hindcasts of even advanced climate models. The unavoidable conclusion is that an anthropogenic air temperature signal cannot have been, nor presently can be, evidenced in climate observables.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/feart.2019.00223/full

Pat Frank makes the scientific argument that "climate models cannot predict future global air temperatures; not for one year and not for 100 years. Climate model air temperature projections are physically meaningless. They say nothing at all about the impact of CO₂ emissions, if any, on global air temperatures.""

Other readers of this land mark paper please share your comments.

Russ

Oops should read "give us your opinion"

George Rebane

Re JBarron’s 750pm - Mr Barron’s answer of “Dr Christy” is IMHO one of the most ignorant responses by anyone seeking to debate science issues. Such a response has constantly issued from people ignorant of science and the scientific method. Barron did not cite and counter the points of science made by Christy, but simply dismissed them out of hand with no understanding of anything, simply because he did not like the messenger. When the climate change debates in these pages over the years are reviewed, this kind of response is the stock in trade of the climate calamity corps of the Left.

And I second that Mr Frisch should take Russ Steele’s 647am advice if he’s to understand anything that I most recently said in my 139pm.

George Rebane

StevenF 218pm - “But then I did not make the offer to you, I made it to Greg and Russ.”. The what was all the hot air in your 1159am all about?

Gregory

GR 729am

Frisch had expressly excluded you before he accidentally included you.

Jig Wiggly

l 11:34-
"Unfortunately, a great deal of it (CO2) is taken up by a cold ocean and converted to limestone." Unfortunate indeed.

You forgot about the little part where it is converted by plankton and coral which produce the planet's oxygen long before it converts into limestone. Such a teeny weenie and supposedly unimportant part in your "unfortunate scenario.

Bill Tozer

Hurricane hypothesis overblown.

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-increased-hurricane-frequency-hypothesis-is-overblown/

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Jig Wiggly | 07 September 2019 at 09:16 PM

"If there is any weight behind your belief, George and Russ will step in and corroborate your connection between global climate science and your Truckee snow patch with papers. My guess is you will hear crickets as they leave you high and dry to rot. If they do corroborate we might consider the validity of your observations, if they don't, I guess they and we believe you are full of shit. Absent validation, the RR crowd will be mollified to be associated with the likes of you and Todd."

Jig just hit the nail on the head.

Russ and Greg won't step in to counter Walt and Todd because this is essentially an echo chamber with a grievance agenda and critiquing their own would diminish the over all agenda.

That is the fucking 100% definition of intellectual dishonesty and cowardice.

I know a lot of people including myself who regularly take on liberal shibboleths when they are premised on illogical bullshit arguments. The fact that you can't do that speaks volumes about the content of your character.

Walt

jiggers thinks he/she/ it is a scientist now.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Gregory | 07 September 2019 at 05:34 PM

The point of debate rules is that it sets the guidelines for behavior.

So, here is the deal; in a debate I would keep my cool, and you would melt down like a petulant child.

As I suspected, both you and Russ are cowards.

Gregory

Steve, did that tantrum (853am and 901am) make you feel better?

Walt

Really Stevey? Seen the whiners with the DNC "rules" of debate?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dnc-chair-perez-defends-stricter-criteria-for-next-democratic-primary-debate

Speaking of GW,, Feel the early cold bite in the air today?

Todd Juvinall

Thank you CNN for hosting the occupants of the clown car and their goofy policies. Yesterday they were all in New Hampshire at the DNC convention for the state democrats. Even the loon Steyer. Cracks me up. Not one of the clowns had a good thing to say about America. All whining all the time. If I was them with that attitude I would seek assisted suicide.

Gregory

Frisch 901am

"So, here is the deal; in a debate I would keep my cool, and you would melt down like a petulant child."

This is a classic example of projection. Over and over, when things don't go your way, you melt down like a petulant child... this was a scheme to finally turn the table.

You wanted to propose the question, make the rules, choose your opponents, choose the venue and the moderator.

Bill Tozer

I have somewhat of a different take on things. If a carbon neutral future is the way things are heading, then why not promote nuclear energy? That topic is met with the same knee jerk reaction as, say, a paper written that was funded by big oil. Silence! Tainted!

America made great strides lifting people out of poverty. Once only the wealthy had things that are now available to the common man and everyday Americans enjoyed them a couple of decades ahead of the rest of the world, including Europe. Refrigeration, air conditioning, air travel, cheap abundant sources of dependable energy to power our manufacturing base as well as personal needs and uses....all these things improved our Quality of Life.

Looking down the road I see a threat to all the aforementioned items listed above. I see skyrocketing energy prices and a life of minimalistic existence. Reminds me of the gurus that spoke at college campuses in the 70’s lauding the virtues of poverty and freedom from the materialistic world, all the while charging exorbitant speaking fees and driving Rolls Royces. If the Great State of CA cannot afford to build one green passenger train across open terrain, then that speaks volumes. Forget about a green train to nowhere as the carbon footprint is greater than energy saved and plans to run the Brown Streak exclusively on green power has been shelved.

What about AC, air travel, refrigeration, affordability, dependability, and soaring costs of basics promised in our Brave New World. What are the plans to feed the millions in our urban areas? How many folks will die of heat stroke or freeze to death or live in poverty to afford the higher energy costs with less dependability? What about mobility? What about standard of living and our Q of L? At what cost to life and lifestyle? Who gets hurt the most? The poor, always the poor and middle class. Yellow Vests ring a bell?

Not the best link, but touches on what I have been thinking.

“It’s quite true that thoughtlessness has costs. But it’s a myth that plastic straws are a serious environmental problem, or that paper ones are a very good solution. There are far better ways of reducing the amount of waste, pollution, and plastic that goes into the ocean. Telling those less fortunate than you that the great advancements of food production, air-conditioning, and air travel will have to be withdrawn from them for their own good may provide a momentary thrill for our modern-day preachers of simplicity, but it is, itself, thoughtless. Fewer children, less protein for them, more deaths from heat exhaustion, and less travel isn’t a morally superior future; it’s just a parsimonious and more impoverished one.”

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/progressive-elite-aspirational-asceticism-environmentalism-cost/

Bill Tozer

Aha! Here is a better link to moi 10:01 am above.

https://fee.org/articles/could-the-green-new-deal-create-more-climate-victims-than-it-saves/

Weezer

"Yes,SNOW still in our own high country is a good teller of lack of AGW."

Besides being a total asshole, Walt once again proves he is likely the single dumbest man in Nevada County. Typical angry old white Trump supporter, nothing more.

Weezer

who the hell would even consider buying an incandescent bulb in the year 2019? That would be one of dumber things a person could do.

Weezer

Hey Goodknight, what's your excuse for being Nevada City's biggest asshole? Walt cannot hold a candle to ya, big guy!

Walt

LOL!!! one of the TROLLS is trying a new name. Humm.. Must have COPD from smoking WAY too much dope. I hear mixing honey oil, crack and meth will do that to ya'.

Walt

Oh... BTW. I'm still smarter than you.

Walt

Home detention getting to you?

Walt

The jiggered boob is trying to shed his/her skin.. Well it is that time of year for reptiles.

George Rebane

Gentlemen - I don’t think that attempting to discuss the physics of climate change by citing bits and pieces of poorly understood constituent physical processes by discussants not versed in any of the fields is very productive. And resorting to claims as to who is the smartest really reduces the level of dialogue and gets no one anywhere. However, if those are the only tools available, have at it.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Gregory | 08 September 2019 at 09:15 AM

Greg, as along as you roll over for the mind set displayed here without speaking out against it when you know it is illogical, irrational, incorrect or morally wrong, you are just as bad as the people whose shibboleth's you fail to challenge.

No patina of civilization, good breeding, or good education will hide the fact that you are indeed...an asshole.

Gregory

I wrote earlier,
"The journal article you've cited is by a retired engineer whose research is unknown and is without affiliation and, as far as I can tell, he doesn't claim that Christy's research is, as you put it, "wanting and flawed". The newspaper article is by a professor of mechanical engineering whose PhD thesis is an analysis of an industrial electric oven... while that would make him more interesting than a science nobody such as yourself, I've a good idea that he's also motivated by fear and loathing of people who don't attend the same Church of Our Lady of the Presumptuous Assumption that he does."

The fellow who wrote the paper identifying himself as a "retired research engineer" cited an earlier paper of his, dating from the early 'oughts, also criticizing the UAH record... and he was similarly unattached at the time... but he did acknowledge help from one William Connolly, at one time a scourge of Wikipedia, known for wholesale deletions of inconvenient articles misusing his powers as an administrator which were revoked as a result.

The newspaper article about it written by the mechanical engineer was entirely about the early days of the UAH dataset. Part of the scientific method is to make public enough about your work that it can be looked at and replicated; lo and behold, an error was found, owned up to and folded into the UAH code.

What the mechanical engineer (John Abraham) didn't say was that, despite all the criticism... the UAH result traced closely to the RSS (Remote Sensing Systems remss.com) data, and both track radiosonde measurements that ARE direct measurements of temperature of the atmosphere.

There is always error in any real measurement of reality.

An error, not an intent to obfuscate. Being open to criticism is part of being a scientist... unlike Michael Mann, who even after ordered to make available his research findings by the judge in the case HE brought, refused.

Penn State vs. the state pen, indeed.

Jig Wiggly

No one is claiming to be smartest, it's the dumbest we're speaking of. Walt and Todd seem to be leading the pack in the race for face slapping moronity...

At the farmers market yesterday, someone brought a pony. The pony raised its tail and began spewing turds on the pavement. A guy in the crowd whom I never met, spontaneously said "Todd Juvinal" and a half dozen of us just busted up. Todd is a well know figure for sure. What a fool.

Todd Juvinall

Sorry Jiggy I am way smarter than you and my IQ of 166 makes yours at 78 look pretty bad. And I use my real name and you don't because you are a coward. So we all just laugh at your trollish musings. Now get back to the institution.

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