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15 December 2019


Steven Frisch

Well, well, let's take George's response one piece at a time. since there is so much in there.

First, "NC’s population density has been kept low through a series of short-sighted and impractical public policies powered by eco-hysteria and NIMBYs, each seeking in their own way to staunch development and growth."

That may be true in western Nevada County but eastern Nevada County is growing. Here is a list of recently approved and in process major development projects. I can't help but noting that this list is in the portion of the County that is essentially a solid Democratic voting block, has at least 3 members of it's Town Council who would openly call themselves liberal or progressive, and has not voted for a Republican Presidential candidate in 20 years.

My question to you George would be why is it that in the western County where voting is usually more conservative the County or the two cities can't seem to get to consensus with its population of what type and location of development to approve? I would posit that it has more to do with a toxic political culture, where there is no trust between the factions so decision making is frozen.

Raley's Grocery Store

The Raley's Grocery Store project includes a 40,000 sf grocery store with attached 12,000 sf of co-anchor retail and a 7,000 sf freestanding retail building (note that subsequent phases are contemplated with 65,000 sf of retail in four buildings); as part of the application, the developer is proposed to name the project “Soaring Ranch.” Infrastructure improvements include widening the Highway 267/Brockway Road/Soaring Way intersection to include right and left turn lanes, landscaping, sidewalks and construction of multi-use paved trails (Class I). The Planning Commission approved this project in January 2018.

Grocery Outlet/Capitol Avenue Development Grocery Store

The Capitol Avenue Development Grocery Store (Grocery Outlet) project includes a 16,147 square foot grocery store with 11,610 square feet of gross retail area, 4,537 square feet of gross storage area, a 900 square foot mezzanine, three workforce housing residential units, and 57 on-site parking spaces, six parking spaces within the Donner Pass Road right-of-way, and transit stop. The project was approved by the Planning Commission in April 2018.

Truckee Art Haus - Railyard Theater

The Truckee Art Haus is a 12,130 s.f. three-screen movie theater and performing arts theater in the Truckee Railyard Master Plan Area. The large auditorium is about 3,057 SF with 199 seats, the first small auditorium is 1,541 SF with 95 seats and the second small auditorium is 1,363 SF with 84 seats. The Planning Commission approved the project in March 2019.

Truckee Artist Lofts

The Truckee Artist Lofts was the first approved project within the Railyard Master Plan Area and was envisioned as a mixed use/mixed income neighborhood providing new high density housing Downtown. The applicants have been working to guide the project to construction and through this effort the project has evolved since the initial project approval in May 2016. Click here for more information.

High Altitude Fitness Development Permit

High Altitude Fitness is a climbing gym facility at the corner of Donner Pass Road and Northwoods Boulevard, behind the Dickson Realty building. The application proposes a two-story, 43’10” tall, approximately 27,500 sq. ft. building (16,210 sq. ft. of ground floor space and 11,280 sq. ft. on the upper floor) featuring a rope climbing gym, bouldering area, and fitness studios/activities. An Initial Study/Mitigated Negative Declaration was prepared for the proposed project; the public review period began on March 16, 2018 and ended on April 16, 2018. For additional information, please click here.

The Village at Gray's Crossing

The Village at Gray’s Crossing is a mixed-use commercial, lodging, and residential development on approximately 14.29 acres, located in the Gray's Crossing Specific Plan Area. Previous approvals have expired. The application was submitted on November 28, 2017. The Planning Commission approved the project on August 20, 2019.

Coburn Crossing

Coburn Crossing is a mixed-use project that includes a 71,090 s.f. three-story hotel with 114 rooms and five three-story apartment buildings with a total of 138 rental units at 10470 East Jibboom Street. The project was approved by the Town Council in January 2017. The project is currently under construction.

The Railyard

Located in Downtown Truckee, the Railyard project features a mixture of residential and commercial uses. A master plan for the Railyard project was adopted by the Truckee Town Council on June 17, 2009. Town Council adopted the Amended Truckee Railyard Master Plan in November, 2016.

In process and likely to be approved in some form:

Frishman Hollow

The Planning Division has received an application requesting approval of an additional 68 mixed affordable income (50% to 120% area median income) residential units in Phase 2 of Frishman Hollow. Four buildings are proposed (two buildings with 30 units each on the south side of the property and two fourplexes on the north side of the property). A new community gathering picnic area, play area, and community garden are also proposed. The existing development (Phase 1) was approved in 2006 and includes 32 affordable housing units in eight fourplex buildings and 65 parking spaces. The project is located at 11188 and 11200 Rue Ivy (APNs 019-410-041 and -046).

Residences at Jibboom

The Planning Division has received an application for a multifamily residential project on Jibboom Street in Downtown Truckee (“Residences at Jibboom”). The proposed project features 83 residential units in four buildings, with 49 rental apartments, 34 for-sale residential units, a 1,294-square-foot laundromat, and a 484-square-foot retail space. (10002 Jibboom Street; APNs 019-102-011-000 to 019-102-018-000.)

West River Cottages

The Planning Division has received an application requesting modifications to two properties located within Truckee’s Historic Preservation Overlay District. One of the properties is the location of seven existing historic cottages; the second parcel is the location of an existing residence and garage. Both properties are rated as Category B (Contributory) historic resources in Truckee’s Historic Resource Inventory. (10199 and 10191 West River Street; APNs 019-130-006-000 and 019-130-050-000.)

Hotel Avery II

The applicant is requesting review of an approximately 32,790 s.f. 21-room hotel, nine condo/hotels, 16-space valet parking garage, on-street parking, and restaurant with outdoor dining on the Truckee River located at 10002 and 10024 South River Street (APNs 019-140-001-000 and 019-140-002-000), a 0.62-acre site that consists of two parcels. This project is currently under review by the Planning Division.

Truckee Springs Master Plan

The Truckee Springs Draft Master Plan includes 26.2 acres on the undeveloped property at the western end of South River Street, adjacent to the Truckee River. The majority of the property is within the Truckee River Master Plan Area and has a zoning designation of Downtown Master Plan (DMP). The remainder of the property has a zoning designation of Public Facilities (PF) and Downtown Single-family Residential (DRS-4). As proposed, the Master Plan envisions a looped road, riverside bike/ped trail, dedication of open space along the Truckee River, restoration of the historic ice pond, four single-family lots adjacent to the current homes on the river, and a potential for either 40 single-family residential units, 80 multi-family residential units, or 120 hotel/lodging units at the western end.

George Rebane

StevenF 504pm - The demographics of Nevada County, abetted by the actions of the local progressives, eco-nuts, and NIMBYs, speak for themselves. In light of the businesses and people leaving and turning down 'opportunities' to move here, these cannot be swept under the rug with the most recent list of applications that follow hundreds of those which have gone nowhere. Our population growth remains stagnant, schools are losing families/pupils, unemployment rate: TX=3.4%, US=3.5%, CA=3.9%, NC=4.1%. And not only the nation, but the world's press is talking about California's decline. The only ones blind to what's happening are people like you who run organizations whose main job is to foster and maintain a Potemkin perspective of California. Who are the new cash importers of Nevada County???? As I said, you have your own facts.

Scott O

And what will be the asking price for all of these Mill-Valley-In-The-Sierras housing units? Cheepy crappy employee apartments, second and vacation homes for the wealthy and very nice homes for well fixed retirees.
All of these projects come with expensive strings attached that western Nevada County just can't afford.
Frisch admits that he believes that if everyone would just be a lefty, everything would be fine. The trouble is that western Nevada County is GASP - diverse! So there is contention and squabbling.
'Toxic political culture'? Takes 2 to tango, my friend.

Steven Frisch

I don't have my own facts George, I have the facts. I posted them above. Truckee is growing and represented by Democrats.

My guess is in the next census we are going to see that eastern Nevada County (primarily Truckee) has grown by about 4,000 residents and the eastern County will have...lost population.

Oh and by the way we have a lot of new "cash importers" in the eastern County. Most of our growth has been young professionals, not in the recreation and tourism industry, but small business, consulting services, financial services, and a lot of professionals telecommuting and splitting work time between Truckee and the Bay area.

Thus my question...


Telecommuting...You mean high paid button pushers that don't produce anything. Whatever makes a buck. And high carbon footprints flying jets in and out of Truckee Airport.

I'm sure Reno loves the business too. Truckee folk go there for shopping needs.

You can keep that LIB slice of frozen high priced hell.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Scott O | 15 December 2019 at 05:56 PM

Sorry Scott, but you don't actually know what you are talking about.

First, about 30% of the newly approved housing units are deed restricted affordable housing.

Second, many of the market rate housing options are restricted to local residents, and many are "affordable by design" meaning smaller units designed to hit the 120% to 200% AMI price range.

Finally, what the hell difference does it make if some of them are more expensive than they would be if they were in western Nevada County? Truckee is a different market, and what, are you against high priced houses? George are you against building market rate housing? That's not very 'free market' :).

BTW, I freely admit that Truckee (and NLT) have a housing shortage, The difference is that hard as it is , we are doing something about it. And oh yeah, we are most dreaded Democrats.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Walt | 15 December 2019 at 07:07 PM

"Telecommuting...You mean high paid button pushers that don't produce anything."

Yes Walt, that means many of them are not pushing dirt for a living. But if you think that means they are not creating wealth, well, you can be a Luddite if you want to be.

BTW, don't a lot of western Nevada County residents go to Roseville and Rocklin to shop? How would that be any different?

Do you see how completely intellectually vacuous your arguments are?

Scott O

Steve has the facts...
Funny - I asked him for some facts and he doesn't seem to have the answer.
Figures don't lie, but liars can sure figure.
Steve posted his 10 'big ideas' but most are just bumper sticker BS.
Look at no. 4 - "Create community investment capital and expand access to outside capital"
Create community investment capital?
How does that happen?
Is it really created or just appropriated?
Expand access to outside capital?
Outside of what?
And how, exactly, are we to 'expand' this access?
I realize this sort of blather works a treat with folks handing out someone else's money, but let's try to get real.
I knew people in Nevada County that needed money for projects and they had no trouble getting all they needed because they could show a reasonable prospect for a return on investment. They didn't care where the money came from. I guess 'outside' money is needed because the deadbeats that burn all the cash and go belly up won't have to ever look in the eyes of the folks they burned.

Scott O

Stevie starts to own up - "Truckee is a different market, and what, are you against high priced houses?"
Ah yes - a 'different' market. You said the difference was 'toxic' politics. Now it turns out that everyone is buddy buddy as long as the money is flowing freely in large amounts.
Best line ever - "and what, are you against high priced houses?"
That's straight up evasion, dude.
I'm pointing out the 'difference' that you are trying like hell to hide.
What are the average prices going to be?
Not the welfare units - the full price ones.

Steven Frisch

BTW George, I believe that local decision makers don't really have much of a problem with voting in favor of development against the wishes of "eco-nuts" (even in western Nevada County.)

What they do have a really hard time doing is approving development against the wishes of NIMBY's and in my experience with development (which is pretty extensive) NIMBY's have exactly one distinguishing characteristic--they own a home near the subject property.

If the neighbors are conservative and the development is next store they drop their free market values and become NIMBY's.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Scott O | 15 December 2019 at 07:34 PM

Most of the units that are restricted to locals or affordable by design are in the 400's-500's-market rate stuff is between 500-700, that is the market up here. So what?

The difference is toxic politics. Truckee can eventually reach consensus on these projects because we have a political culture that encourages collaboration and compromise, and is pretty practiced at achieving it.

Steven Frisch

BTW Scott, our AMI is about 30% higher than western Nevada County.

Steven Frisch

I'm not going to answer the post about access to capital until later--trying to keep this to housing instead of fighting a two front war with you clowns all at the same time.

Steven Frisch

"Steve has the facts..."

Yeah, the fact I have is that Truckee has approved about 400 units of new housing development in the last 5 years and is on track to approve about 500 more. Those are the facts I was referring to, and that George has not responded to.

Scott O

So Steve admits what I was trying to point out. A half mil for 'affordable' housing.
Yeah - that works great in western Nevada County.
"BTW Scott, our AMI is about 30% higher than western Nevada County."
Well - DUH!!!!
But Steve claims the ONLY difference is 'toxic politics'.
No Steve - the difference is about 200K a unit.
At least.
"a political culture that encourages collaboration and compromise, and is pretty practiced at achieving it."
Lots of stinking rich white-guilt leftys and a govt set up to relieve their guilt.
The difference is western Nevada County has a lot of middle class folk that worked darn hard for what they have and aren't about to hand over a huge loss on their land to see a bunch of stack and pack slums put in next door.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Scott O | 15 December 2019 at 08:01 PM

Scott, as I said a different market, with different income levels, and different building codes...its actually more expensive to build up here. (BTW, part of the reason we have different income levels is that Truckee has a more diverse economic base.)

But I am not suggesting the costs or the pricing would be the same in western Nevada County...I think you guys can build for about $75 less per sq, ft, than we can.

But the whole "stack and pack" thing is hilarious...yes, to get an economy of scale and get multi-family housing, which is middle class housing today, one is going to have to build ...gasp...3 story buildings in some places...God forbid!

( I can almost guarantee that if someone proposed a 3 story multi-family housing project in the neighborhood of many of the posters here their free market principles would be out the door and they would be on the NIMBY train.)

The fact remains...we are approving units up Nevada County ...and trying to solve the problem. (and we are majority Democrats.)

My key point from the very beginning of this discussion before George moved it over here was....

...all the bitchers and moaners should get off their grievance laden fat asses and work on creating the solutions instead of tearing down everyone else in the community that is trying to do something to address the problems.

I know you won't, because you LOVE the grievance too much....but one can dream.


Well, I'm convinced. Sounds like we need a branch of the Sierra Business Council and it's many directors and managers to help out 'round these parts. Perhaps the local tech companies will stop augering in.

Generally, I'd say that an awful lot of places in CA benefit primarily from things like skiing or the beach. The politics of the area doesn't much matter. The real action appears to be at the state level in any case.


Steve F:

"The difference is toxic politics. Truckee can eventually reach consensus on these projects because we have a political culture that encourages collaboration and compromise, and is pretty practiced at achieving it."

Would you like to borrow a mayor for a while?

Serious question. What would you do in the NC/GV area to improve matters? 0 points given for some answer that involves committees and meetings and stakeholders. What rules or government investments would make sense here?

Steven Frisch

Posted by: scenes | 15 December 2019 at 08:30 PM

I could comment, but the 0 points will be a problem; the one part of George's response to me that makes sense is that to solve any problem, getting people on the same page is necessary as part of the process. Trust is important. Public education about the need for housing is important.

Here is an example:

I will follow up with some specific recommendations on policy and investments as well, but right now I am going to watch the Steelers game.


This thread is more entertaining than the Sunday Night Football game.
1. Scott O. writes: " Mill-Valley-In-The-Sierras housing units ..." No, Scott, it's "Sierra," not "Sierras." Duh. You can't even get to first base with that kind of ignorance!
2. Steve did a good job of calmly presenting the "facts" (in detail) of economic development in the county, but George let his lens of partisan politics get in the way of any objective analysis or reasoned response (as usual). And there are other projects in the works, ranging from the Dorsey Marketplace (yes, it is getting approved despite supposed "eco-hysteria" and NIMBY's) to the Center of the Arts renovation to the widening of the Cofax Highway (for better or worse(.
3. Progressives, NIMBY's and "eco hysteria" are not the reason that broadband isn't advancing. In fact, most of them support it.
4. George's reaction to Terry's column was that of a "knee-jerk conservative" without any substance.
The only mistake Steve made was coming here to discuss "common ground." There is no common ground at Rebane's Rants and there never will be. It is not reflective of a rational conservative voice in our community. It is a seat and the far end of the table.


Steve F:

"...all the bitchers and moaners should get off their grievance laden fat asses and work on creating the solutions instead of tearing down everyone else in the community that is trying to do something to address the problems."

Oh well, I expect it's a combination of retirees (or near-retirees) and intractable problems.

It's worth considering what the problems are in Nevada City and Grass Valley (dunno about Penntuckey) and everyone has different opinions on what they are.

If you want to attract a more highly paid sort of employee and the companies that hire them, I'll suggest a few things.

. More reliable electricity
. Decreasing fire insurance cost / fire danger
. Good quality broadband (probably has to be .gov since no big carrier will spend the money)
. Less crime
. Better public schools
. Put the hammer down on the homeless problem
. Easier to get building permits for business, there's always someone who'll scotch the deal

Generally, make it a more practical place to do business and a nicer place to live.

I'd say that all of these are .govs problems or problems to solve, even broadband. I think that housing is a little overblown as an issue since it's a statewide problem. Between the fire insurance issue and the per foot cost of new construction, I admit that the inventory isn't likely to increase remarkably.

I sure as hell wouldn't move a company here at this point.


moi at 8:30

Pardon, I see that Mr. Frisch already had a list in another thread:

"1. Expand broadband access
2. Create and support rural entrepreneurship programs
3. Provide direct technical assistance to rural businesses to expand markets
4. Create community investment capital and expand access to outside capital
5. Increase opportunities for workforce education and training at every level
6. Increase availability of affordable housing (yes in my back yard)
7. Modernize rural infrastructure (roads, water, waste, electrical, rail)
8. Expand access to the arts and recreation
9. Consciously link rural products to global markets
10. Stop acting like a bunch of babies and work together.""

I'm not seeing much overlap with my list, so I'll beg to disagree. Expanding broadband would likely have to be a .gov function since there's no money to be made by running fiber all over the place here...otherwise I'd suggest you start an ISP with a physical infrastructure.

I'll stick to my basic outline. Law enforcement, K-12 schools, fire issues. The rest would follow.

George Rebane

StevenF 754pm - Not sure to what about I'm supposed to respond. You obviously didn't understand my statement about the current national notion about 'facts'. Your citing of recent and planned housing units in east NC are not a matter of contention. But their relevance and impact on the county's growth and 'GDP' are easily grasped when comparing annual population growth over the last 20 years: CA = 0.88%, NC = 0.37%. And comparing 2018 GDP growth rates we have CA = 4.3% and NC = 2.9%. So we can talk about housing units around Truckee until the cows come home, but that is another set of facts that sets off our county.

I also draw our attention to Russ Steele's 852pm in the last Scattershots re a more sober assessment of California.

JeffP 855pm - Thanks for letting us see your pathetic attempt to contribute to this conversation. Try to stay civil.

Scott O

Wow - did I get schooled! Looks like I'm totally wrong on every point because I wrote Sierras instead of Sierra.
I guess if that's all they've got - well, you run with whatever you have.
From the great word-smith Pee-line "It is a seat and the far end of the table."
You know Jeff - If you want to be the spelling Nazi, it would help if you could write at least at a 6th grade level.
Steve can't answer my questions and Pee-line goes for the spelling-Nazi win.
And then they complain we can't have a conversation.


The steaming pile of Frisch says,
"Yes Walt, that means many of them are not pushing dirt for a living."
And just who builds those homes? Be it low income or high end housing? "WE" are the ones who actually build something.
The only thing to come out of high priced button pushers are endless pop-up ads on websites, and inhome spys marketed as "assistants".

Just wait for the mine to start pushing hard to reopen. Watch the job killers flow out like the roaches they are.
Yup, you have avoided answering that all damned day.

There is where "fresh blood" will come from. "outside" money.

Todd Juvinall

I see Pelline has come here to stink the place up. He should have brought deodorant.

Here is a return fire to the democrats who use the heckler's veto on R's. Schiff was the target. Good show Trumpsters.

The Estonian Fox

I predict there will be big changes coming to Nevada County soon. 'Soon' being relative.
From Patriot Post today:
For the first time ever, Muhammad is one of the top 10 baby names in America. “While all this may seem innocuous enough, the fact is many Muslims see their offspring as contributions to the ‘struggle’ to make Islam supreme, since more numbers equate more influence and power.”

So how might this help his three main concerns (scenes @9:13PM):
Law enforcement (Sharia will take this in a new direction);
K-12 schools (madrassas will provide not just a national curriculum, but a world-wide one);
fire issues (there might be lots of that, see NYT 9/11/2001).
Hmmm...possibly not the solutions you were expecting. But you will then have the same diversity as the Arabic countries are happily living under today.


I read Susan Crawford's book Fiber: The Coming Tech Revolution—and Why America Might Miss It. She is the John A. Reilly Clinical Professor at Harvard Law School. Crawford has some insight as to why Nevada County does not have ubiquitous broadband access.

It is important that the community, the local government, have some skin in the game; the lack of such involvement in John Paul’s Nevada City/Grass Valley has made it very difficult for him to privately finance the building of the Chip Carman network.

divided. The same thing happened in rural Nevada City, California, where Michael Anderson told me that home buyers who thought their new houses came with DSL were being told by AT&T that the service wasn’t available anymore. “And so we’ve had people fall out of escrow, the realtors are out of their minds.” Sellers are now keeping their names on the DSL bill even though they themselves have moved to Florida.

schools in rural places like Nevada City, California, that aren’t large enough to hire teachers for specialized classes;

Certificates, skills, adult education: that’s the workforce development model that Mayor Andy Berke of Chattanooga is focused on, and the one Nevada City/Grass Valley and Greensboro don’t seem to have. It’s working well in Chattanooga, but students must physically go to a center, with its high fixed costs for buildings and grounds, in order to access adult education opportunities.

The rural framework of this capacity story is revealed by comparing Nevada City/Grass Valley, where the local government refused to get involved in fiber, to the RS Fiber region in Minnesota, and to Otis, Massachusetts—two places where local government did all it could to bring fiber to town.

“It needs to be part of moving in, part of growth.” Laissez-faire is not working for rural America, particularly in areas like Nevada City/Grass Valley where the local authorities are uninterested in intervening to ensure that their people have communications capacity.

one of the key reasons that both Greensboro and Grass Valley/Nevada City are making such slow progress toward any flavor of publicly oriented fiber is that there is no prominent public leader willing to stand behind it.

Crawford, Susan. Fiber. Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.

Bottom line: Failed .gov leadership in Nevada County! Crawford cites numerous examples in Fiber where effective leadership produced results.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Walt | 16 December 2019 at 05:46 AM

Yep, the only people who build wealth are heavy equipment operators.

Let's be clear, I am not dissing heavy equipment operators in any way, it's a noble profession. I am also clearly not dissing the working and middle class who I believe deserve a fairer shake and larger portion of increased productivity in our economy.

I am just dissing Walt, who is so intent on disrespecting the work that anyone without dirt under their fingernails does, that he can't see the full economy through the trees.

George Rebane

EstonianF 706am - Well, you're sure a lot of fun.

Russ 813am - Reading her perspective on our community, I think she nails it (as you and I confirmed during our recent circling of that old barn).

Todd Juvinall

Steven Frisch | 16 December 2019 at 08:17 AM
You really are dense. Walt is not doing anything you think he is doing. If you ever met a man named Pat Shane you would be normed on hos a person becomes successful and important. And he lived in Truckee.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 15 December 2019 at 09:45 PM

"And comparing 2018 GDP growth rates we have CA = 4.3% and NC = 2.9%."

George, I believe I prefaced this entire thread with the comment that GDP growth in rural regions of the state are not keeping up with urban regions, and that that is the reason why we need to focus more attention on the 10 items I listed above.

National GDP growth in 2018 was actually 2.9%. NC is on track with the rest of the country but not all of California.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 16 December 2019 at 08:47 AM

I really don't give a damn what Walt is doing, my point is that an economy is made up of all wealth creating activities not just his.

George Rebane

StevenF 910am - Understood. And also that is the reason that I criticized your tautologies, which we have been unsuccessfully pursuing for years, always running into the the first roadblock I identified.

I think we've exhausted that thread of this conversation, but I would still like to hear your take on the fundamental notion of cash importing into local economies that cannot print their own money. As I've written here over the years, a local economy like NC has two kinds of 'enterprises' - cash importers, those who sell things to the outside world and bring in cash, and local service providers of the goods and services required to maintain the community's quality of life. The latter live off the local velocity of imported cash. Of course, people like me don't put much truck in imported cash from the folks in Ohio or Marin County coming through DC and Sacramento, even though we are happy to get it when we can. Do you have a recent figure on whether NC is a net importer or exporter of government cash? (Please exclude things like costs of roads maintenance which are also used by non-NC residents.)



I like the sound of that, and the side benefit of the provincial word Nazi coming out of his hole to jump on it. Perhaps we should think about renaming the Sierra Nevada (aka Sierras) to avoid the mixing of Spanish and English plurals... I'll suggest calling them the Frisco Mountains, igniting arguments that they should or should not be referred to as the Friscos or the Friscoes.

Kudos to young Master Pelline who's getting out of Dodge for a BS in engineering... to the town hosting the second highest homicide rate in the entire country. But at least Baltimore is a Democrat's town.


Posted by: Gregory | 16 December 2019 at 10:23 AM

Kudos to young Master Pelline who's getting out of Dodge for a BS in engineering... to the town hosting the second highest homicide rate in the entire country. But at least Baltimore is a Democrat's town.

Indeed…..stay close to campus, keep Uber on speed dial and he should be fine. At least with the discipline he's chosen he will likely avoid the need to prepare and deliver glossy advertising circulars (aka "future birdcage liner") in his later years.

Bill Tozer

Dr Rebane opened this post with, “Sierra Business Council CEO Steven Frisch took to task my criticism of Terry McAteer’s Union column (here) in which he glossed over the real problems that California has under Democrat leadership. Along with McAteer, Frisch also appears to be blind to California socialists’ homegrown catastrophes, and counsels those who would point them out to “stop acting like a bunch of babies and work together."

While the comments have been focused on East and West NC, little has been discussed about what I consider the most important issue (or top 3 issues) facing CA going forward: our pathetic shithole public school system. Neither McAteer or the comments here address this issue, which, of course, affects the future of CA, our common future. Oh well....

Quote I read concerning Boris Johnson’s crushing victory, but applies to the great divide and here: ‘The right is more apt to compromise on economics that the Left is on culture.’

Also missing from this discussion is the greatest threat facing the world and our very existence. Short video.

Well, I think that is a start to covering ‘A Progressive Common Ground.’ Everything is good, the future is rosy. If you disagree, that means you Hate California. Why don’t you move to Alabama!
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Brexit or remain.


GeorgeR: "but I would still like to hear your take on the fundamental notion of cash importing into local economies that cannot print their own money. "

aye, that's always the rub isn't it.

It's always possible to import cash by simply moving it...Social Security, investment income, non-profit grants from outside, the less useful sort of government employee, but it's quite another to add value and swap that for filthy lucre. If yer gonna import ya gotta export, unless you're rich and live on the beach.

The folks who are most into committees and meetings and stakeholders and digital futures for our children and the like never seem to have a strong background in actually producing and exporting much of anything. and....yes....better broadband is a good thing, better have a meeting I guess. Everyone is strong on procedure, weak on policy. Nice work if you can get it.

I like that as a plank. Law enforcement, schools, fire. There's no point in creating community investment capital in a poorly educated and increasingly lawless area that's going to burn down.


from BillT's link:

"Watching Greta Thunberg mobilize hundreds of thousands just through her presence and sincerity is like watching a 21st century version of how Saints or Miracle Workers used to emerge, shuffling whole kingdoms in the Middle Ages"

lol, that secular religion thing again.

I like the idea of narrowing it all down a bit in two ways. The first is by comparing progressive thought to a particular family of religions (JudeoChristianIslamic naturally) and to points in their cyclical histories. None of the three act crazy all the time, but they have their moments.


BillT: "...our pathetic shithole public school system..."

Taking a break, I thought I'd dig up some numbers on that. Maybe SAT over time or some such thing.

Here's one that blew me away, is this true?

Look at the high school drop out rates on page 35. Are they miscalculating it somehow? If it's right, it makes any other metric suspect.

Also look at the stats on page 36 (and 37 for that matter, lower number of test takers will likely skew the numbers higher).


scenes 1143am

I think any stat from the California D of E is suspect, especially when they show NevCo high school dropout *rate* being thirteen times as high as it is statewide.

That said, the NevCo number is probably more reliable than the 3% rate claimed for California's high schools overall, which is head in the sand loonytunes.


When a kid drops from a high school's enrollment, they're either transferring to another school or dropping out entirely.

Just check the box indicating a transfer and the problem goes away.

Bill Tozer

I was grasping at straws until I remembered they were banned.


"I was grasping at straws until I remembered they were banned."

hah, very funny.

You can argue that we need something like a Gini score for population density in a state. Places that are heavily split between dense urban and low population rural are bound to have more in the way of tension than a state with less variation in city size. The former will have city dwellers treating the rest of the land as a combination park and resource extraction source.

That would lead you to favoring South Dakota over Nevada or Arizona.

NC Schools dropout rate:

Some combination of reality and hand waving I suppose. It's hard to extract the truth when someone's iron rice bowl is involved.

as usual ..."O’Connell blamed the increased dropout rate on state budget cuts"... is the normal sort of response from the school mafia.

George Rebane

Re Gini index - I introduced that notion re McAteer's piece in the last Scattershots, pointing out that the coastal Democrat states had the greatest inequalities in the nation - CA being in the top three unequal states. I was hoping that one of our liberal worthies would address that little tidbit since it's their base that is literally screaming about how corrupt capitalism is taking from the poor to enrich themselves (hence their current champions of AOC, Warren, and Sanders). Actually, I knew that they wouldn't touch this attribute with a ten-foot pole. Those of them who read already know that socialism does nothing to equalize the compensation of the controlling elites with that of their proletarian charges.

Todd Juvinall

Steven Frisch | 16 December 2019 at 09:12 AM

Of course you care. You seem to be attacking him constantly. You could learn things fro Walt. Like how to run a successful business after the military stint. Maybe you should be grateful he serves and protected your sorry ass. I am.

Bill Tozer

“A critical look at the history of the Golden State shows a number of reasons why we are different from the rest of Americans. As Californians, we have always forged our own trail, sometimes to the extreme … but you already knew that!”—Terrance McAteer

Clean up on Aisle 10.

“San Fran man defecates in grocery store aisle”

Now, would this be allowed in Mexico, France, South America, Greece, Turkey, Canada, Iran, or anywhere besides CA? Of course not. Must be a Progressive Common Ground.


MILE OF HELL Inside the tent city that shames California where tiny strip of land provides squalid shelter for 3,000 homeless people

There's been a growing call across the US to help such stricken people get into housing, rather than risking their lives, camping in streets and other public spaces.

California has the country's largest homeless population - and it's continuing to expand, according to Los Angeles Times.

Latest stats show that there were about 130,000 people "on the streets on any given night statewide" in 2018, it reports.

The paper adds that as of August 2019, there were nearly 59,000 homeless people in Los Angeles County in 2019, and a further 9,784 in San Francisco - 30 per cent more than two years ago.

The sh*thole grows and grows and the progressive government has no solutions.

Bill Tozer

This is what makes CA so berry berry special.

Democrat Behind Law That Just Got Hundreds Of Writers Fired Says It’s ‘Not All Bad,’ Gets Smacked, Apologizes

George Rebane

Russ 810am - As covered recently in these pages, AB5 is having a devastating effect on CA's economy as it rolls back more freedoms in a formerly free market. None of this is apparent to the state's McAteers and Frisches who continue pushing their pabulum propaganda about CA's glorious lead in implementing progressive public policies. Short of simple one-liner slogans, such people have no idea how a minimally regulated capitalist economy works and benefits its diverse participants while generating wealth that also nurtures those who can't or won't.


Has RL Bozo been offered a job at The Union yet?

Bill Tozer


“Daniel Horowitz has reviewed ICE’s brand new comprehensive enforcement and removal operations report. ICE reported that it issued detainers on criminal aliens in fiscal year 2019 who were collectively charged with 2,500 murders. To put that in perspective, albeit via an imperfect comparison, Horowitz says that law enforcement agencies only arrested 9,049 individuals in total for homicide in 2018.

Horowitz also notes that most illegal immigrants live in sanctuary jurisdictions where law enforcement doesn’t cooperate with ICE. Thus, there are many crimes, including murders, committed by illegal aliens that don’t result in detainers. California, for example, is home to by far the most illegal immigrants of any state in America. Yet, ICE only apprehended a fraction of the number of criminals they caught in Texas.

George Rebane

OK, here Mr Tozer (214pm) highlights another one of the progressives' favorite causes. Now all of these we post here about the transgressions of the Left are the real serious stuff that goes down in the country. Let's see which cricket platoon will respond to this one.

Bill Tozer

Not CA, but close. Progressive Common Ground

Don Bessee

This is an interesting dynamic and I bet they win in the end. The 9th will be interesting but will SCOUTS end up involved? -

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Freelance writers and photographers on Tuesday filed the second legal challenge to a broad new California labor law that they say could put some independent journalists out of business.

The law taking effect Jan. 1 aims to give wage and benefit protections to people who work as independent contractors. While the public focus has been largely on ride-share companies such as Uber and Lyft, the lawsuit brought by the American Society of Journalists and Authors and the National Press Photographers Association says the law would unconstitutionally affect free speech and the media.

The lawsuit filed by the Pacific Legal Foundation challenged what it calls an “irrational and arbitrary” limit of 35 submissions each year to each media outlet.

That has “thrown our community into a panic, given that in the year 2020 digital media is a whole different beast than newspapers and journalism of the past,” said Los Angeles-based writer Maressa Brown, who founded California Freelance Writers United in September.

“You could hit 35 (submissions) in a matter of a few weeks, and we don’t feel that should require us submitting a W2, sitting in an office and tethered to a computer and under the oversight of one client,” said Brown, who likes having up to 15 clients at one time. “People are losing clients, income. Their livelihoods are under threat.”

The law establishes the nation's strictest test for which workers must be considered employees and could set a precedent for other states.

The lawsuit says the freelance restriction draws “unconstitutional content-based distinctions about who can freelance,” noting that “the government faces a heavy burden of justification when its regulations single out the press.”

The Pacific Legal Foundation, a nonprofit libertarian group, filed it in federal court in Los Angeles.


Bill Tozer

Long-standing Sacramento restaurants closing up shop citing minimum wage hike
A number of 'institutions' have shuttered saying they can't afford the rising costs of doing business in California

Don Bessee

Didn't botox Nancy say it was an individuals moral issue how you vote but it seems that if you don't we will strong arm your ass bitches! -

The congressman told reporters Tuesday that the exodus of aides was dictated to them by nameless officials who threatened that they would never hold another position in the Democratic Party if they did not resign, according to Politico reports.



Here's a lighthearted treatment of the obvious...


,,,a Senator recently described the NAFTA 2.0, tariffs, etc. this way,,,

"Even if NAFTA 1.0 was not perfect and we have been taken advantage of in international markets the US has still been the best..."

,,,From Wiki,,,"The United States is the world's largest economy with a GDP of approximately $20.513 trillion, notably due to high average incomes, a large population, capital investment, moderate unemployment, high consumer spending, a relatively young population, and technological innovation."

,,,The same can be said of California...

"The economy of California is the largest in the United States, boasting a $3.0 trillion gross state product as of 2018. As a sovereign nation (2018), California would rank as the world's fifth largest economy, ahead of India and behind Germany." ---Wiki

Don't you think it might follow that we have a proportionally larger share of unfunded liabilities and other issues that face governments elsewhere???

Not sure how local armchair quarterbacks can claim that AB5 is having a devastating effect on the California economy and wail about all the '''injustices''' heaped upon them by dastardly Demos if we are doing so great...

Is everything perfect,,,no,,,

George Rebane

Castaneda 926am - You continue missing the relevant points and happenings. It isn't just us "armchair quarterbacks" who point out the devastation promised by AB5, it is the artisans, independent contractors (e.g. jobber journalists, consultants), and small business owners who now loudly decry what those butt-stupid legislators are next forcing on California. And it's also not only RR and its readers who have chronicled CA's decline, but there exists a rich national literature on the subject. We could repeat the links for you, but it would really serve your intellectual growth in current affairs if you did a nickel's worth of that research yourself. Your usual news sources are woefully inadequate here.

As a starter bonus for you, read the latest on shithole San Francisco -

Scott O

Carloada 9:26 - "Don't you think it might follow that we have a proportionally larger share of unfunded liabilities and other issues that face governments elsewhere???"
No - if California really had a great economy, it would have pensions that are fully funded. Just as it used to have. Trying to excuse that liability by pointing out that other states also have their tits in a wringer hardly makes California any better. The California economy is floating mostly on money that can (and has in the past) easily disappear. Remember the Dot-Com Boom - and BUST? And the real estate value collapse when California was begging for money from the Feds?
But you lefties don't have to listen to us 'arm-chair quarterbacks' - just go about whatever you do for fun and ignore all the problems and everything will be just peachy.


,,,why Kleenex why???

America is great again so why are there still problems???

Your argument holds no water...


Castaneda: "Not sure how local armchair quarterbacks can claim that AB5 is having a devastating effect on the California economy "

Dunno why it would. Like most of the overbearing rules of a metastasizing government, it messes with a minority of the people. It's not going to the alter the lifestyles of Prius-driving .gov middle managers in urban areas one whit, therefore it doesn't matter.

That's the beauty of socialism. Rather than leaving matters to the market, which can have it's own issues, the people who run government simply cook up a rule that favors some and harms others and lets 'er fly.

In practice it always turns it taking money from one group (out of favor) and handing to another (in favor). That's why the USSR had such an imbalance of wealth regardless of all the handwaving.

George Rebane

Castaneda 1218pm - Who said 'America is great again'??


,,,Trump,,,KAG,,,Keep America Great,,,

Congrats, job well done!!!


,,,America's common ground,,,

George Rebane

Castaneda 155pm - Perhaps that PAC will give us a better candidate than Trump. No one here that I know of is married to Trump if a better candidate comes along that can defeat the socialist the Democrats will nominate. I very much doubt that such a candidate will have anything to do with 'common ground'.

Scott O

Carloada - "Your argument holds no water..."
Well, if you could even explain what my argument is and then refute it with facts, I'm all ears.
Until then -
My argument holds. You can't say that California's economy is great with all of the unfunded debts and obligations the state govt has gotten itself into.
Saying that some other states are also poorly run doesn't make California better. California is way too dependent on high income earners for revenue. That has been stated by Dems and Rs alike.
The producers continue to leave and the takers continue to flood in.

Bill Tozer

Scenes @ 18 December 2019 at 12:49 PM

I just read a long post (not attached) from a tearful woman who formed a networking group of freelance writers who write for several different publications. She poured 20 years of her life in her project that started as a lone writer at home and nurtured her project to where it is today and provided for her family. Now, because of AB5, she has lost her livelihood as well as her contemporaries. She is devastated. Her fellow journalists/writers are devastated. It choked me up, big time. The theme was “just in time for Christmas” to loose everything she worked for.

The point is that conservative policies are ones that also enrich liberals and righties with more work opportunities, more economic prospects, more freedoms and personal liberties. It works for Left and Right alike. But, not so for Leftist policies and rules. The Left cannot live under the Leftists’ own agendas and policies, as evidenced by the Left and Right leaving New York and CA and other liberal strongholds. Sad.

AB5 was cheered as getting the working stiff into better wages, unions, worker protections, employer paid health benefits, etc. straight out of the NGD. Cheered as a win for the exploited workers. Opps.

Fired just in time for Christmas.

Bill Tozer

California Blocks Release of Spending Records
Watchdog says Golden State threatens accountability and transparency

California is the only state in the country that has refused to reveal public spending records to a government watchdog, prompting threats of legal action., a nonprofit dedicated to government transparency, said the Golden State is the lone holdout since it began sending public record inquiries to state governments in 2013. Governments in 49 states have complied with requests for itemized accounts of taxpayer funds sent to vendors and public sector employees. California's state government, however, has so far failed to provide the details of the 49 million individual payments it makes each year using taxpayer dollars, saying it is unable to track and document its activities.

"Their excuse is that they can't locate the records—that their system doesn't allow the controller after she makes the payment to track the payment," founder Adam Andrzejewski told the Washington Free Beacon. "We are preparing to sue the State of California and force them to open their books."


Leaving California

California’s population inched closer to 40 million this year but the state fell short by about 40,000 people as the growth rate slowed to its lowest point since 1900, according to new data from the state Department of Finance.

Enough babies were born in California to buoy the losses from the state’s aging population dying off. There were 180,800 more births than deaths, a 5 percent decrease from the previous year.

But migration, mostly to other states, undermined those meager gains. Net migration — people moving into the state minus people leaving — was down by 39,500 residents. For the first time since 2010, the state lost more people moving out than moving in, finance department officials said.

George Rebane

Re BillT 652pm % Russ 702pm - Terry McAteer, please call your office.

Bill Tozer

Debunk this: Terrance McAteer, please call your office. It’s the economy, stupid and dumb-ass policies.

“California Preening”
The Golden State is on a path to high-tech feudalism, but there’s still time to change course.

“Now the state’s anti-Trump resistance—in its zeal on matters concerning climate, technology, gender, or race—believes that it knows how to create a just, affluent, and enlightened society. “The future depends on us,” Governor Gavin Newsom said at his inauguration. “And we will seize this moment.”
In truth, the Golden State is becoming a semi-feudal kingdom, with the nation’s widest gap between middle and upper incomes—72 percent, compared with the U.S. average of 57 percent—and its highest poverty rate. Roughly half of America’s homeless live in Los Angeles or San Francisco, which now has the highest property crime rate among major cities. California hasn’t yet become a full-scale dystopia, of course, but it’s heading in a troubling direction......

Reality is asserting itself, though. Tech firms already show signs of restlessness with the current regulatory regime and appear to be shifting employment to other states, notably Texas, Tennessee, Nevada, Colorado, and Arizona. Economic-modeling firm Emsi estimates that several states—Idaho, Tennessee, Washington, and Utah—are growing their tech employment faster than California. The state is losing momentum in professional and technical services—the largest high-wage sector—and now stands roughly in the middle of the pack behind other western states such as Texas, Tennessee, and Florida. And Assembly Bill 5, the state law regulating certain forms of contract labor, reclassifies part-time workers. Aimed initially at ride-sharing giants Uber and Lyft, the legislation also extends to independent contractors in industries from media to trucking.

At some point, as even Brown noted, the ultra-high capital gains returns will fall and, combined with the costs of an expanding welfare state, could leave the state in fiscal chaos. Big Tech could stumble, a possibility made more real by the recent $100 billion drop in the value of privately held “unicorn” companies, including WeWork. If the tech economy slows, a rift could develop between two of the state’s biggest forces—unions and the green establishment—over future levels of taxation. More than two-thirds of California cities don’t have any funds set aside for retiree health care and other retirement expenses. The state also confronts $1 trillion in pension debt, according to former Democratic state senator Joe Nation. U.S. News & Report ranks California, despite the tech boom, 42nd in fiscal health among the states.“

Debunk this, change my mind.

Bill Tozer

California population growth slowest since 1900 as residents leave, immigration decelerates

Bill Tozer

From Gavin’s lips to Terry’s ears.

Gov. Newsom Claims Calif. Is A ‘Success Story’ Despite Massive Taxes, Homelessness

George Rebane

re BillT 916am - Yes indeed, that different view from a different planet continues. The important thing to note here is that such gross error forms the broken feedback to advise future policies. More of the same incoming.

Bill Tozer

The Progressive Common Ground

New York’s Thickening Cloud of Violent Crime
“A surge in horrific incidents is unsettling the city—but elected officials keep making it easier for criminals to operate.”


re: BillT@10:32

Look at it this way. If nothing is a crime, the crime rate is gonna drop.


,,,Now we are worrying about how many crimes are occurring in towns thousands of miles away???

a drug addled schizophrenic went on a rampage??? Talk to Reagan about closing the mental institutions...Talk to Trump about cutting public service funding and choking off service programs...


a reasonably written counterpoint to the din of "RAYGUN CLOSED DOWN THE LOONY BINS!!!"

Althought it's a meme that will never ever stop.

Modern decriminalization of crime is an interesting thing. So far as I can tell, it goes something like this:

. POC commit more crimes on average.
. If you punish people for crimes, you punish more POC
. If you punish more POC, it's racist
. Therefore we shouldn't have the concept of a 'crime'.

It's not terribly different than the evils of standardized testing or the kerfuffle on school expulsions.

Of course, if you can't protect yourself from a badly behaved public via wealth, you move, quick as a wink, to a rural area and then lecture people on how cities should be run. At least all of our local Blue Mob has neighbors (and employees) who look like them.


'have', not 'has'.

Jeesh, this blogging software could be better. The ability to edit would be a godsend.

Bill Tozer

“,,,Now we are worrying”

Apparently there is no “we”. Apparently someone missed the title of the post “Progressive Common Ground.” I know the link is about NYC, but I simply grew weary of Ca catch and release stories. Opps, I should have said cite and release. In San Fransisco with the highest property crime in the nation, victims don’t even bother to call the cops anymore. Does no good, does not change anything. If the cops do catch the perp, they are out on the streets the next day. CA has enough ‘no bail required stories’, escalating crime with reduced punishments (if any), mob shoplifting, shoplifters with calculators to keep it under $900, gang shootings, Santuary cities and the entire State where illegals prey on the most vulnerable (poor illegals) and Progressive policies that handcuff LE. Cops are the bad guys.

All one needs to do is substitute NY for CA or Maryland or VA to get the big picture of Progressive Common Ground.

What do you mean by “we”, paleface.

Bill Tozer


“Ridiculously lenient policies that aren’t even enforced. That’s the real criminal justice scandal in this country. Innocent people are paying the price for this liberal/libertarian frolic. Jews are the latest victims, but innocent non-Jews, a disproportionate number of whom are African-American, experience the same horrors on a regular basis.”

A Progressive’s common ground.

George Rebane

re Waldo 822am - this one illustrates further the dearth of common ground. Who do we talk to about the public pressure to release the mentally deficient because their civil rights were being violated if institutionalized? Who promotes the release and catch/release of criminals for downgraded crimes and because more of those who do the crime wind up doing the time - which now, according to the needle heads, is again discriminatory?

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