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02 January 2020

Comments

Bill Tozer

Re: Chile – Latin America’s ‘Oasis’ Descends Into Chaos

Since I am on the wrong side of WSJ’s paywall, here is a (hopefully) supportive link.

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-latin-americas-upheaval-tips-towards-chaos/a-51712664

Times do change. When I was last in Bolivia, the country had no diplomatic relations with the US and the head of the coca growers union was El Presidente. Peru is having demonstrations as well.

Scott O

re Tozer 12:35 link from DW.com - The last part of the article was telling.
"Democracy needs time. It is the wearisome search for compromise and balance between differing interests. The South American protesters don't seem to want to do this anymore. They've waited too long and been disappointed too often. This is understandable, yet there is no good alternative to democracy, either. Without it, there is chaos and then the rule of the strong man. And that is not justice."
'Democracy' needs a lot more than just time. Without a strong framework of limits to the govt's power and enumerated rights of the citizens that protect them from the govt, democracy will always devolve into the dictatorship of the mob. And that ends up being the 'strong man' the author fears.

Don Bessee

They are dancing in the streets in Iraq -

The strike, authorized by President Donald Trump, marked a dramatic escalation in a "shadow war" in the Middle East between Iran and the United States and its allies, principally Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Meanwhile, there were celebrations on the streets of Baghdad early on Friday (January 3) following Soleimani's death.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/soleimani-attack-cleared-iraqis-celebrate-131427709.html

;-)

Don Bessee

They be lovin Trump in Iraq -

As Iraqis awoke Friday morning to the news that Qassem Soleimani, commander of Iran’s elite Quds Force and the mastermind of its ascending global military influence, had been killed by a targeted U.S. drone strike soon after touching down at the Baghdad International Airport, it didn’t take long for many of the embattled nation’s youth to start circulating photos and messages praising President Trump.

“Happy Friday to Uncle Trump,” one meme read. “You are a great Commander,” cheered another.

Scores flooded Tahrir Square in Baghdad to dance in jubilation and express their gratitude for the killing.

“I am very happy that America could kill these two criminals,” enthused one activist and former government employee, who feared using his name given the Iran-backed militias have directly targeted him.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/soleimani-death-aftermath

;-)

Bill Tozer

There is something about strong women....

Nikki Haley Responds To Trump Taking Out Iran’s Top Military Leader: ‘Strong And Right

https://www.dailywire.com/news/nikki-haley-responds-to-trump-ordering-strike-on-irans-top-military-leader

Bill Tozer

BREAKING: U.S. Military Kills More Top Iranian-Backed Terrorist Leaders In Airstrikes, Reports Say

Don Bessee

Not a good time to be an Iranian proxy terror group leader -

https://www.breitbart.com/news/iraq-official-says-airstrike-targets-iran-backed-militia/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/01/03/iraqi-official-airstrike-hit-iran-backed-militia-north-baghdad/2809762001/

;-)

Don Bessee

Touchable -

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/01/03/watch-iranian-military-spokesman-cries-over-qasem-soleimani-death/

;-)

Don Bessee

A bubble headed bleach blonde from lala land who thinks they could give a shit about her, the mutha mullahs would likely label her a western whore. -

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/rose-mc-gowan-slams-trump-over-soleimani-killing-apologizes-to-iran-please-do-not-kill-us-170243104.html

;-)

George Rebane

OK boys and girls, now your job is to find and link to lamestream outlets that report Iraqi celebrations and the likes of Nikki Haley supporting President Trump's great coup.

Don Bessee

Good luck with that @ 615 -

;-)

Bill Tozer

A common theme has emerged from those in the know, from those who know more about foreign relations and politics in the Middle East than moi will ever know, who have ‘been there done that.’

That theme from CIA analysts, logistical experts, experienced policy advisors throughout the region, former State and Defense personnel, to our boots on the ground and wounded warriors is: “its impossible to overstate the significance.”

Recommended interview by General Petraeus.

Gen. Petraeus on Qasem Soleimani’s killing: 'It's impossible to overstate the significance'

A sample:

Q: General Petraeus, did you ever interact directly or indirectly with him?

A. Indirectly. He sent a message to me through the president of Iraq in late March of 2008, during the battle of Basra, when we were supporting the Iraqi army forces that were battling the Shia militias in Basra that were supported, of course, by Qasem Soleimani and the Quds Force. He sent a message through the president that said, "General Petraeus, you should know that I, Qasem Soleimani, control the policy of Iran for Iraq, and also for Syria, Lebanon, Gaza and Afghanistan."

And the implication of that was, "If you want to deal with Iran to resolve this situation in Basra, you should deal with me, not with the Iranian diplomats." And his power only grew from that point in time. By the way, I did not — I actually told the president to tell Qasem Soleimani to pound sand.”

https://www.pri.org/stories/2020-01-03/gen-petraeus-qasem-soleimani-s-killing-its-impossible-overstate-significance?fbclid=IwAR1TRggBoSyN-la1qkv013IY2k4ZybZhXoA8KMlI-1ZYIUg-mi0tUoKhbYg

scenes

"Qassem Soleimani Haunted the Arab World
In much of the Middle East, and even in Iran, the military commander was feared, and his death has been greeted with elation."

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/01/qassem-soleimani-death-missed/604396/

Paul Emery

Looks like Bush did a really good job liberating Iraq for Democracy. Here is what it's like today. 5000 American lives and Trillions of dollars well spent right George?


"Mourners Chant ‘Death To America’ In Qassem Soleimani Funeral Procession
Thousands marched through Baghdad on Saturday for Iran’s top general, who was killed in a U.S. airstrike.


Thousands of mourners chanting “America is the Great Satan” marched in a funeral procession Saturday through Baghdad for Iran’s top general and Iraqi militant leaders, who were killed in a U.S. airstrike."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/qassem-soleimani-funeral-baghdad_n_5e1075eae4b0b2520d21f117

Walt

Proggys got SO PISSED when Trump pulled troops out the "war zone" just a few months ago..(remember?) Now they are beyond pissed that Trump took out a killer of Americans.

Bill Tozer

Happening now....

https://www.facebook.com/Breitbart/videos/459511981667687/
———-
Re Jan 4 update: Greta Thunberg: A Living Explanation Of The Left

https://www.dailywire.com/news/prager-greta-thunberg-a-living-explanation-of-the-left?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

Paul Emery

That's because they abandoned our Kurdish allies Walt (10:22). My goodness you have no perspective of anything beyond your shrill rhetoric.

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 January 2020 at 10:52 AM


...you have no perspective of anything beyond your shrill rhetoric.


Pot/Kettle

Bill Tozer

SHADOW SECRETARY OF STATE PELOSI ON THE KILLING OF SOLEIMANI [WITH COMMENT BY JOHN]d

“Pelosi is right about one thing — the killing of Soleimani is provocative in the sense that it will likely provoke military action by Iran, including action it might not otherwise have taken. She’s also right to worry about “tensions escalat[ing] to the point of no return.”

But tensions were escalating already due to previous Iranian attacks, and were bound to escalate further if/when Soleimani carried out the new attacks he apparently was in Iraq to orchestrate. The U.S. could not have failed to respond to what Soleimani was planning.

The U.S., through its sanctions, has placed Iran in a box. The regime is responding with provocative attacks on U.S. allies, interests, and troops. In the face of this aggression, Trump’s alternatives are to sit back and take it, to respond weakly, or to respond in a way that shows he means business.

The last of these options makes the most sense, and that’s the option Trump has selected.

Pelosi’s real quarrel is with Trump’s decision to reject President Obama’s nuclear deal and to place tough sanctions on Iran. I agree with Trump’s decision, but reasonable people can disagree with it.

However, in view of Pelosi’s whining about lack of congressional involvement, it’s worth noting that Obama did not seek ratification of his deal as a treaty. If he had, and if the Senate had ratified the treaty, Trump would have been bound by it.

Obama had the option of seeking Senate ratification of the Iran deal as a treaty. Trump did not have the realistic option of seeking congressional authorization to have Suleimani killed.

JOHN adds: Did I forget the time when Barack Obama sought Congressional authorization to kill Osama bin Laden, the proudest moment of his presidency? Or have I forgotten how Congressional Democrats lamented the absence of a vote?“

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/01/shadow-secretary-of-state-pelosi-on-the-killing-of-soleimani.php
————-
Tlaib Attacks Trump After Killing Of Iranian Terrorist; Omar Solicits Donations Attacking Trump On Iran

https://www.dailywire.com/news/tlaib-attacks-trump-after-killing-of-iranian-terrorist-omar-solicits-donations-attacking-trump-on-iran
—————-
https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/01/identity-revealed.jpg?w=740&ssl=1

https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/01/Screen-Shot-2020-01-04-at-4.37.58-AM.png?w=968&ssl=1

Qassem Soleimani Was involved in the planning of both the Benghazi and Baghdad Embassy attacks:

https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/01/Screen-Shot-2020-01-02-at-10.04.32-PM.png?w=932&ssl=1

https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/01/IMG_2460.jpeg?w=720&ssl=1

Waldo'sNemesis

,,,Tucker is not so sure about the motivation of the airstrike,,,

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tucker-carlson-comes-against-trump-012924479.html?fr=yset_chr_syc_hp

George Rebane

re PaulE 1016am - I am so surprised that HuffPost only covered the anti-American organized demonstrations, and not a whiff of the spontaneous dancing in the streets by Iraqis. I wonder which kind of demonstrations our progressives take as being the authentic expressions of Iraqis' sentiments given that they want even less to do with Iran, the country with whom they fought an 8-year war.

Waldo'sNemesis

,,,Two sides of the argument without all the partisan bluster...

''If you subscribe to the idea that targeting an individual combatant in self-defense isn’t the same as an assassination, then Soleimani is fair game—provided you credit Trump’s claim that Soleimani was plotting “imminent and sinister” attacks against Americans. A State Department official on a phone call with reporters noted, “Assassinations are not allowed under law.” But the official argued that this wasn’t one. “The criteria is: Do you have overwhelming evidence that somebody is going to launch a military or terrorist attack against you? Check that box. The second one is: Do you have some legal means to, like, have this guy arrested by the Belgian authorities or something? Check that box, because there’s no way anybody was going to stop Qassem Soleimani in the places he was running around—Damascus, Beirut. And so you take lethal action against him.”

If you believe targeted killings is a sanitized term for assassinations, which have become normalized in the drone-war era but are no less illegal, then targeting Soleimani is a war crime, especially since there’s no formal state of war between the United States and Iran. “Preemptive self-defense is never a legal justification for assassination,” O’Connell said. “Nothing is. The relevant law is the United Nations Charter, which defines self-defense as a right to respond to an actual and significant armed attack.”

Two administrations sidestepped this debate when it came to Soleimani, not as much for legal or moral reasons as for strategic ones. The two sides of this conflict have opted for other forms of confrontation, from proxy fights to sabotage to cyberattacks to sanctions, but they didn’t kill each other’s generals. Now that barrier has been shattered, leaving the world to await Iran’s next move in a game with suddenly higher stakes. From the Iranian perspective, it doesn’t much matter whether the U.S. administration considers Soleimani’s death an assassination or not. He’s still a dead general.''

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/01/why-kill-soleimani-now/604441/

Bill Tozer

Cut Punchy some slack. Precisely because of all the drone strikes (600-1,200) raining down on ragheads including a US citizen, he could not bring himself to vote for Obama the second time...nor Hillary Clinton the first time. Second, Paul has put his money where his mouth is and donated his hard earned mula to those fine female Kurdish fighters. Hubba hubba. Third, BDS never sleeps, never rests. Like rust. Giving money to the Kurdish women (and the Bay Area mimes) makes him rather protective of them.
—————————————
Re: Jan 4 Update

“The past decade saw the rise of the woke progressives who dictate what words can be said and ideas held, thus poisoning and paralyzing American humor, drama, entertainment, culture and journalism.” —Dr. George Rebane

Happy New Year bigots!

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/january-2020/happy-new-year-bigots/

Don Bessee

Reality check for the socialist dems and the pony tail of ignorance , we are still in the field with the Kurds and -

Unsurprisingly, media snowflakes and congressional Democrats were quick to criticize President Donald Trump for allegedly bringing us to the “brink of an illegal war.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said, “we cannot put the lives of American service members, diplomats, and others further at risk by engaging in provocative and disproportionate actions."

Such critics need to be awoken to reality: Tehran has been at war with us for 40 years; we have just refused to fight back.

With the hostage-taking of U.S. embassy personnel after the embassy’s 1979 seizure, Tehran demonstrated it would ignore international law in dealing with the U.S. Releasing the hostages the day President Ronald Reagan took office for fear of retaliation, Iran waited three years to test us again. In 1983, it directed its Hezbollah proxy in Beirut to bomb the Marine barracks there, killing 241 Americans. As we did nothing to discourage further violence by Iran, it continues unabated today.

The war Iran has been fighting with us is put into context by the following: as it is estimated that by 2015 Tehran was linked to the deaths of more than 1000 Americans, Iran is most likely responsible for more American deaths than any other nation since the Vietnam conflict. In addition to American lives lost in Beirut in 1983, Tehran has increased this death toll either directly or indirectly by its actions in Iraq — all of which were coordinated through Soleimani.

Iran’s indirect involvement has included the provisioning of advanced mines and other weaponry to anti-U.S. militias during our occupation in Iraq. The author’s son served two tours in Iraq, defusing many of these devices which clearly carried Iran’s signature.

Direct involvement by Iran occurred in an incident 13 years ago this month. On January 20, 2007, twelve men, disguised as U.S. soldiers and speaking perfect English, entered into the Provincial Joint Coordination Center in Karbala, Iraq, where Americans were conducting a meeting with local officials. All hell broke loose as the twelve-man team began shooting, wounding, and killing several of those present. Four Americans were taken hostage, handcuffed, and later murdered elsewhere. Five U.S. soldiers lost their lives that day in a raid, it is now believed, involving Iranian planning and participation.

But Soleimani’s death puts the mullahs on notice: the one-sided war they have been fighting has now officially come to an end.

The demise of Soleimani hits close to home for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Not only was the general the second most powerful person in Iran, reporting directly to Khamenei, the two were good friends.

https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2020/01/04/zumwalt-soleimanis-demise-could-end-irans-long-one-way-war-with-america/

;-)

Bill Tozer

Re: update...the hated.

“In the coming 10 years someone will effectively stand up to them. They are the most hated people in America, and their entire program is accusation: you are racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic; you are a bigot, a villain, a white male, a patriarchal misogynist, your day is over. They never have a second move. Bow to them, as most do, and they’ll accuse you even more of newly imagined sins. They claim to be vulnerable victims, and moral. Actually they’re not. They’re mean and seek to kill, and like all bullies are cowards. … Everyone with an honest mind hates them. Someone will finally move effectively against them. Who?” —Dr. Rebane

My money is on the women folk. Womanhood is a beautiful things.

Washington Post Writer Can’t Figure Out Why Trump Supporters Won’t Talk To Her

“In corporate media, conservative women are simply presumed to be bigoted, or stupid, or who cares, as long as it’s an opportunity to trivialize them.”

https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/03/washington-post-writer-cant-figure-out-why-trump-supporters-wont-talk-to-her/
———-
Jameela Jamil Dumps Candace Owens From Podcast For Saying ‘Only Women Can Give Birth’

“Owens then sent the following tweet: “LOL ‘only women can get pregnant and only men can impregnate them’ is now considered a form of bullying. [Jameela Jamil] — keep us posted when 2+2=4 becomes a form of bullying as well.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/jameela-jamil-dumps-candace-owens-from-podcast-for-saying-only-women-can-give-birth

Walt

Tell us all about it Emery,, all 50 of them. Yup 50 Americans are supposed to hold back the invading masses.
"A senior administration official told reporters Monday that Sunday’s announcement did not constitute a full U.S. withdrawal from Syria and that only 50 to 100 U.S. special operations forces were moving to other locations in Syria.

The official explained that Trump’s decision to move the special operators out of the zone of a potential Turkish operation was done to protect troops and keep them out of the crossfire."

But continue with that fake outrage Emery.

Now don't forget(I know... too damned late) that was all a ruse to draw out a wanted terrorist.. And it DID. He's dead today as well.

Bill Tozer

VDH....worth a read. The art of getting one’s opponent to overreach.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/iranian-analytics/

“We are now in an election year. Iran yearns for a return of the U.S. foreign policy of John Kerry, Ben Rhodes, Susan Rice, and Samantha Power, the naïveté that had proved so lucrative and advantageous to Iran prior to 2017.

Yet it is hard to see how Trump, if he is careful and selective in his responses to future Iranian escalations, will be damaged politically. His base, of course, and all Americans, quite rightly do not want another war even remotely resembling endless Middle East conflicts perceived as fought for great game dramas. But disproportionate one-off air responses in response to Iran’s future attacks would not require U.S. ground troops or likely not risk a general Middle East war. And they would do Iran’s assets real damage.

The current exchange is surreal in that it may be the first Middle East crisis in modern history in which neither oil nor the fury of the Arab world at U.S. military action is at least for now an overriding strategic consideration. The world has adjusted to Iran’s oil being off-market. The U.S. is nearing energy independence. Our rivals like China are the most concerned over tensions in the Strait of Hormuz. If Hezbollah strikes Israel, the counter response would be overwhelming — and quietly also quite welcome in most Arab capitals.

There are no more neoconservatives of influence in Washington. Despite claims otherwise, they have zero influence over Trump.

Most are now fervent and bitter anti-Trump partisans. This past year, they could not decide whether Trump was a “Twitter tiger” appeaser or a provocative and dangerous bull in the Middle East china shop.

We are told his unpredictability creates “confusion,” but confusion and unpredictability are not always a disadvantage. In this case, both North Korea and China are both carefully calibrating U.S. reactions and are not quite sure what’s next.

Trump’s base is nationalist-populist and Jacksonian, not merely doctrinaire isolationist. “Don’t tread on me” translated into 2020 terms means something like “live and let live — or else.” If Iran hits the U.S. first, then the U.S. would shrug and hit Iran back harder — without any grand notions of preemption, ideological nation-building, regime-change agendas, ground wars, or larger policing commitments to international or allied interests. After the recent furor over Turkey in Syria, Trump’s base accepts that he is backing out of the Middle East firing, not firing to get in. How strange that his progressive opponents damned Trump for not exercising preemptive choices in Turkey to protect third parties, and damned him more for taking reactive action in Iraq to protect Americans.

In sum, a weaker Iran foolishly positioned itself into the role of aggressor, at a time of a shot economy, eroding military strength, waning terrorist appendages abroad, and little political leverage or wider support. China and Russia are confined to hoping the U.S. is somehow, somewhere bogged down. Europe will still lecture on the fallout from canceling the Iran Deal, but quietly welcomes the fact that Iran is weaker than in 2015 and weaker for them is far better. China wants access to Middle East oil. Russia has never objected to a major producer having its oil taken off the world market. Moscow’s Iranian policies are reductionist anti-American more than pro-Iranian.

The current Iranian crisis is complex and dangerous. And by all means retaliation must be designed to prevent more Iranian violence and aggression rather than aimed at a grandiose agenda of regime change or national liberation. But so far the Iranians, not the U.S., are making all the blunders.

George Rebane

The careful reader will note that VDH's stated policy of ad hoc responses (see Mr Tozer's 1215pm) is exactly what Rebane Doctrine has been outlining in these pages for years. But then, VDH and I have always flown in tight formation - I also consider him a teacher and mentor.

Don Bessee

Those mutha mullahs do not have the support of the street and are now under threat from inside and leaning crime does not pay under this administration. Timing is not on their side. -

In September, Rouhani left the United Nations General Assembly in New York and the only last credible chance of reaching a detente with the U.S. without an agreement to lift sanctions and end the standoff with Washington. On his arrival in Tehran he faced the challenge of drafting Iran’s most draconian annual budget since the Iran-Iraq war if the 1980s.

By November, the bloodiest protests since the 1979 revolution plunged the country into a state of heightened security as authorities, unable to contain the unrest, switched-off access to the internet and launched a crackdown on dissent that killed some 304 people within several days, according to the London-based Amnesty International.

“How do they expect people to rally behind them and support their cause for vengeance when they beat the same people on the streets and cut their internet just a few weeks ago?”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fear-hits-tehran-over-might-133724630.html

;-)

Don Bessee

A page from the gippers play book? -

Trump's Wish: Will Iran Bankrupt Itself Through Military Spending?
It's happened before. Just ask the Soviets.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/trumps-wish-will-iran-bankrupt-itself-through-military-spending-110826

;-)

Paul Emery

Walt

Here's the truth about what happened to the Kurds after we pulled out

"Thousands of civilians have fled their homes on both the Syrian and Turkish sides of the border, with the United Nations reporting Thursday that at least 70,000 Syrians were already displaced because of the latest escalation in the conflict. Days into the Turkish offensive, dozens of civilians and fighters have reportedly been killed on both sides.

On Saturday, the official SDF Twitter account stated that more than 200 people had been killed and wounded since Wednesday. “Today we are fighting on two fronts, one against the Turkish invasion and one against the ISIS mercenaries,” the group said.

Over the weekend, gruesome videos circulated online that purported to show Turkish-aligned Syrian fighters committing execution-style killings.

Then on Sunday, a Turkish air strike hit a convoy in the Syrian border town of Ras al Ain, killing at least 14 people and wounding 10 more, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. The SDF said the convoy included civilians and journalists."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/10/11/who-are-kurds-why-is-turkey-attacking-them/

Here's Trumps response to the Kurds:

"WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump, facing bipartisan condemnation over Turkey's invasion of Syria, defended his handling of the matter Wednesday as "strategically brilliant" and downplayed the U.S. alliance with the Kurds, who are "not angels," he said.

"They've got to work it out," Trump said "

Paul Emery

He's your guy Walt which makes you responsible for the slaughter and dislocation of our trusted allies.

scenes

re: VDH

"the creepy misadventure in Libya"

I rather like that phrase.

It strikes me as a canonical example of Blue Mob foreign policy and sort of a two-fer. You enable mass invasion of Europe from Africa plus you get a foreign head of state sodomized to death with a bayonet. It's a sort of speak loudly and manipulate a big stick sort of approach.

I think every day of what a bullet we dodged in Hillary Clinton.

Don Bessee

Its amazing how twisted the socialist blue mob is, bunch of self hating idiots -

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/04/watch-anti-war-activist-unacceptable-for-elizabeth-warren-to-call-soleimani-a-bad-guy/

;-)

Don Bessee

It appears that the prez is getting more support from Iranians and Iraqis on the street for taking out dr evil than from the socialist dems -

https://www.yahoo.com/news/soleimani-attack-cleared-iraqis-celebrate-131427709.html

;-)

Waldo'sNemesis

,,,Paul,,,where are Trump's drones? Are we going to take out a Turkish general now? Don't want to be hypocrites do we?

"Then on Sunday, a Turkish air strike hit a convoy in the Syrian border town of Ras al Ain, killing at least 14 people and wounding 10 more, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. The SDF said the convoy included civilians and journalists."

George Rebane

We've heard a lot of bitching about Trump pulling out 50 troops from the Syrian/Turkish border, but I have yet to see a better plan for America's involvement in the centuries old pissing match between the Ottoman Turks and Kurds. I wonder if our progressives have a workable Plan B squirreled away someplace; does PaulE know?

scenes

PEmery: ""They've got to work it out," Trump said ""

Boy howdy, ain't that the truth. What's the alternative? You gonna send a couple of divisions to Syria? The 420th Nevada City Volunteers can get a drummer and a fife player to lead the way.

I sure wish the globalists would just fade away. Worry about the people in this country first.

Don Bessee

Lets get real -

Arab Gulf States Scholar: Iran now knows this is not a one-way street

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/arab-gulf-states-scholar-iran-175504193.html

;-)


scenes

re: WaldosNem@1:43

How many US nationals were killed? Aside from foreign correspondents embedded deep in the belly of the beast of course.

Gregory

"to a long Serbian-like bombing campaign mess"

That phrase misses the mark.

That bombing campaign was designed to show the Saudis that we (meaning Bill Clinton) were willing to bomb Christians in support of Muslims who migrated into Serbia (which Kosovo always was) during the years of domination by the Croat dictator Tito in communist Yugoslavia. Before Tito, Kosovo was entirely Serbian.

Ethnic cleansing by Serbs was bad, but ethnic cleansing by ethnic Albanians once Serbs were forced to stop was ignored by the US and the UN.

Serbia was pushed towards the Russians as a result. It remains a poor country.

scenes

"Serbia was pushed towards the Russians as a result."

Although the whole area is a MixMaster(tm) of craziness, Serbia is primarily Slav/Orthodox, no? That strikes me as a difficult thing to overcome, even with the material advantages to being allied with Western Europe. They sure ain't gonna join up with the Turks.

Blood is thicker than practically anything, including water.

Walt

Not our war Emery. They have been killing each other LONG before we got there, and long after we leave.
You sure turned into a warmonger all of a sudden.
So how long should we stay there Emery?
"we are not the world's police force" HELL!! YOU, yes YOU!! even stated that the American revolution was an illegal war.
Yet now you try and make the case for moving 50 to 100 "advisers" as some sort of abandonment. Let them fight their own damned fight.

fish

Posted by: Walt | 04 January 2020 at 02:08 PM


Not our war Emery. They have been killing each other LONG before we got there, and long after we leave.


DING, DING, DING........!


You sure turned into a warmonger all of a sudden.


Master Sergeant Punchy of Scenes Proud Fightin 420th Nevada City Volunteers

Bill Tozer

“re: WaldosNem@1:43

How many US nationals were killed? Aside from foreign correspondents embedded deep in the belly of the beast of course.
Posted by: scenes | 04 January 2020 at 01:51 PM”
—-
I could be wrong Waldo’s World, but isn’t Turkey our Nato ally? We mustn’t attack our NATO allies, only defend them. That’s the rule book, is it not? I don’t have to like it, just accept it. Kinda like the results of the 2016 election...liking the results is not a requirement, but acceptance is.

At least Saddam ain’t gassing the Kurds no more.

Gregory

GR it wasn't 50 US troops pulled... it was 28. Them dying was to be the tripwire if Turks attacked.

George Rebane

Mea culpa and many apologies Greg ;-)

Gregory

Scenes 205pm

Serbs, Croats and Bosnians are all the same 'blood'.

Serbs/Montenegrins are generally Serbian Orthodox Christian.
Croats are generally Roman Catholic.
Bosnians are generally Moslem.

Serbia and Montengro are kinda like NorCal/SoCal.

They all kinda speaka the same language. Sort of. After a fashion.

In other words, it's a mess. Balkanization.

scenes

"I could be wrong Waldo’s World, but isn’t Turkey our Nato ally?"

Turkey really is an odd duck. In a world where the French and the Germans pretend to be a single polity, should the Greeks,Serbians,Armenians think of the Turks as their brothers? Maybe, maybe not.

In the last few decades there's been a lot of rather thin veneers across yer normal civilizational fault lines. They strike me as fragile and quick to disappear the moment that pressure increases.

Generally, an awful lot of modern treaties and politics generally are based on a short-lived era of wealth and relative peace. The moment the screws crank down, people revert to their normal behaviors.

Gregory

GR 228pm

Apologias accepted ;)

Gregory

Scenes 255pm

The "odd duck", Turkey, is what's left of the murderous Ottoman Empire. Not much chance of bro'hood with the folks who struggled against them, or suffered the first modern genocide at their hands.

scenes

Gregory: "Them dying was to be the tripwire if Turks attacked. "

Generally, I've always been uncomfortable with the concept of a 'tripwire'. It's an area where I would probably disagree with chunks of the Rebane Doctrine, but the post-WWII US concept of forward basing has largely been a matter of that. US presence in South Korea, particularly in the northern parts of the country, and the location of anti-Warsaw Pact US forces (USAREUR? my memory fades.) always seemed poised to be flattened...mostly to grease the skids of US public policy.

I suppose that one basic question to be answered is whether a German (or Korean) national is worth as much as a US citizen. At what cost should they be defended? To be purely honest, there's probably a sliding scale of nationalities in terms of value, you can certainly see that in terms of policy and it changes over time.

Bill Tozer

I am tempted to comment more on Turkey, but I feel it is best to wait for Jon to consult his Turkish friend to let us know what to think.

One thing for sure is that Trump kinda meant it when he said he wanted to bring our troops home. Whether he can remains to be seen. The Left is now in bed with the Establishment,, which kinda defeats the purpose of being a Lefty. Strange times.

Soviet Prime Minister Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev tried to de-Stalinize the USSR with democratic reforms and a pull back from the Soviet Republics to avoid a Cold War, but was overruled by the real powers in the USSR, aka, the Establishment. Military Industrial Complex, Deep State, and all that. They tossed Khrushchev ass out, but I did like his shoe pounding at the UN. The Deep State loves My Gal and that’s why Hillary was their Coronated One, but I digress.

Best to wait for “just a bureaucratic blunder” Jon.. What difference at this point does it matter anyway?

scenes

re: Gregory@2:48PM

I have some notion of that.

Remember what Bismark said about the Balkans.

scenes

re: Gregory "The "odd duck", Turkey, is what's left of the murderous Ottoman Empire. "

We'd have to ask Constantine XI Dragases Palaeologus about that to get the real scoop I suppose.

Gregory


The Balkans were set up to be the buffer between France and Germany, and the Ottomans.

The Ottomans at their largest almost reached Vienna to the West and Kiev to the north.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#/media/File:OttomanEmpireMain.png

Don Bessee

And now a word from the socialist blue mobs favorite has been -

Kaepernick Accuses Military of ‘Terrorist Attacks,’ Calls Troops Plunderers of the ‘Non White World’

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2020/01/04/kaepernick-military-denounces-troops-as-plunderers-of-the-non-white-world/

;-)

Don Bessee

I like that 52 targets in honor of the 52 diplomatic hostages taken by those mutha mullahs -

"Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD," Trump said Saturday, explicitly laying out that the U.S. will act if Iran retaliates.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-trump-warns-iran-we-have-targeted-52-iranian-sites

;-)

Bill Tozer

And now, the war of words:

“He (General Soleimani) already attacking our Embassy, and preparing for additional hits in other locations. Iran has been nothing but problems for many years,” Trump continued. “Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-trump-makes-major-announcement-in-new-threats-toward-iran-iran-signals-readiness-for-war

One has to marvel at the intelligence we gathered that was used for taking out Qasem Soleimani.

“There was an attack that was eminent that could have killed dozens or hundreds of Americans. We found an opportunity, and we delivered,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told Fox News on Friday. “He was traveling the region when he landed in Baghdad. The travels before that put him in places all around the region which were aimed solely at building out what they were referring to as ‘the big attack.’ They were aiming to take down significant amounts of Americans.”

“It would have undoubtedly killed locals, too, Iraqis, Lebanese, Syrians, perhaps, people all throughout the region,” Pompeo continued. “This was an attack that would have been to some scale. We can’t talk much about the details, but suffice [it] to say, the American people can know that the decision that President Trump made to take Qasem Soleimani down saved American lives.”

The Department of Defense confirmed Pompeo’s remarks in a statement: “General Soleimani was actively developing plans to attack American diplomats and service members in Iraq and throughout the region. General Soleimani and his Quds Force were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of American and coalition service members and the wounding of thousands more. He had orchestrated attacks on coalition bases in Iraq over the last several months – including the attack on December 27th – culminating in the death and wounding of additional American and Iraqi personnel. General Soleimani also approved the attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad that took place this week.”
——-
Seems to me it is the President’s job to protect American lives and assets against a designated terror organization’s attacks on Americans. We have finally taken a front seat in our political destiny. American lives matter.

Don Bessee

The back story -

…the plan that prompted the U.S. air strike that killed him.

"Imminent and sinister attacks on American diplomats and military personnel, but we caught him in the act."

Two militia commanders and two security sources have told Reuters of a meeting in Baghdad in October between Soleimani and several Iraqi paramilitary leaders, all allied to Iran.
Among them was Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis - also killed in Thursday's (January 2) strike.

At the time headlines were dominated by the massive anti-government protests in Iraq, in which hundreds died.

Protests sparked in part by outrage over Iran's influence in Iraqi politics and its security forces.

So, Soleimani instructed the militias -- all longtime enemies of the States -- to increase the number of attacks and frequency on U.S. targets.

The sources say the goal was to provoke a powerful military response that would redirect the protesters' anger against the Americans.

Iran has long denied involvement in attacks on U.S. target but, according to the sources, Muhandis's group was picked to lead the operation.

Some attacks had already begun.

A U.S. military source says forensic analysis of the attackers' advanced weapons then linked it back to Iran.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iranian-plan-soleimanis-death-thwarted-180411118.html

;-)

Paul Emery

Bill

You seemed to not complain about Bush when he was totally incompetent in dealing with
the lead up to 9-11 when the Saudis were openly enrolling in flight schools training for for their hijacks. The camaraderie between the Saudi's and the Bush family went way back

Don Bessee

BDS back in full effect @458, face it ya po'ol' fakenewsman you can not engage realistically just revert to the talking points. You rank right up there with stupid and ignorant TDS/BDS folks like this -

The State Department noted: "In 2016, the U.S. Treasury Department identified and sanctioned three senior AQ [Al Qaeda] operatives residing in Iran and noted that Iran had knowingly permitted these AQ members, including several of the 9/11 hijackers, to transit its territory on their way to Afghanistan for training and operational planning."

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/steve-kerr-mike-pence-iran-soleimani

;-)

Walt

Well Emery,, who could see into the future before 9-11? You?
Did you know about Arabs enrolled in one way fight training?
How come you didn't say anything? BDS rides again...

So OHHH great Emery.. Rubbing your crystal balls to tell us of the next great gov. screw up? Date and time please!

George Rebane

According to PaulE, the newly elected Bush2 was supposed to know more than the CIA, the Mossad, and the EU intelligence services about the Bin Laden's 9/11 plan and work-in-progress. I think this kind of naive commentary casts Monday morning quarterbacking in a whole new light. Now isn't being a liberal really easy?

Walt

Iran may have forgotten. They ain't dealing with "O" anymore.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/04/trump-warning-iran-revenge/

Iran and the like have been making threats for years. "we are going to do THIS!! WE are going to do THAT!! DEATH to America!! bla bla bla...."

Trump is like a police dog. As they say.." The dog don't "f*ck around."

You want world Peace Emery? You start by beating the shit out of the bad guys. What's your answer? Paying them off? a nice cozy hand job?
Your idea of being "nice" and plenty of apologies(like from your boy "O") sure worked out swell.

Paul Emery

Bush was in charge of defending our Country George and he failed pure and simple. He responded by invading Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. The Republicans have a poor record of defending our country George any way you look at it. Trumps latest misadventure is just the current example.

Walt

Not long ago,(just last month) the peaceniks were out protesting by one of the Beale AFB gates. Plenty of the usual signs and a fine tissue paper peace sign created on the chain link fence. Was that Emery strumming his guitar singing to the passing cars?(windows up and everything)
Coming by the next morning, all that peace garbage was still there.. Left for others to clean up.

Walt

DAMN Emery,, forget Vietnam was a Democrat's war?
That worked out swell.

Walt

Just have another drink Emery... That will make it all better.

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 January 2020 at 05:53 PM


Yeah......excellent point Punch.....you probably don't want to vote Republican again this election.

Paul Emery


Nixon was the one who lost the war Walt.

George Rebane

PaulE's 553pm is gratefully accepted as Exhibit A for my 542pm, and even explaining away the above mass migration stats. So noted.

And Paul's 614pm is literally over the top. What Nixon was handed in 1969 was an eight year ongoing disaster, and in 1973 he got us out of another Democrat initiated land war in Asia, just as Eisenhower got us out of the Korean conflict in 1953 right after he was inaugurated.

All this again confirms is that we have become two distinct peoples, sharing only a set of national boundaries and precious little else - most certainly not a common history, or a worldview, or the workings of reason and logic, or understandings of human behavior and motivation, or mores and values, or a desired destiny. In this configuration we remain nothing but a growing irritation to each other, the resolution of which remains ominously unknown.

Don Bessee

Now Dr R, the pony tail of ignorance set is never bothered by the reality of any situation. He is just happy to be a good ol' party parrot. Sad.

;-)

Walt

Holy shit Emery,, you have lost what marbles you had left.
And you still claim not to smoke dope?

Whoever is looking over Emery's shoulder there at the bar, please tell us how many shots of that cheap shit he downs, he has had. Tell the barmaid to cut him off.

Don Bessee

The socialist dems are being willfully ignorant and do not feel any embarrassment in their ignorance, Iran's shit has been happening across the region for years and even hotter in recent years. I am highly confidant that none of them even bother to educate themselves beyond the approved talking points for lefties sans facts or any real historical perspective.
-
I mean really, the mutha mullahs history seems to escape them all. Ok lets not look at 40 years since that's too hard. How about the last 5 with a focus on their open offensive actions like thanker, oil production and our $100,000,000.00 drone in international air space most recently which are all acts of war. We are not alone and the unsinkable Jewish aircraft carrier is always playing hard ball -

El Arabiya television reported that the strike hit Iranian ballistic missiles being transported in refrigerated food trucks. Several Hezbollah and Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps members were reportedly killed,

A second strike targeted another Iranian base, according to Asharq Al-Awsat. “The Ashraf base in Iraq, a former base used by the Iranian opposition People's Mujahedin of Iran, was targeted by an air raid,” according to the newspaper. “The base lies 80 kilometers from the border with Iran and 40 kilometers northeast of Baghdad. The sources revealed that the strikes targeted Iranian ‘advisors’ and a ballistic missile shipment that had recently arrived from Iran to Iraq.”

Compounding the mystery were initial reports that unidentified drones conducted the attacks.
Amos Yadlin, former head of Israeli military intelligence, told U.S. publication Breaking Defense that Israel probably did attack Iranian targets in Iraq. “Apparently, Israel is really operating in Iraq,” he said. “It is sensible that Israel will not claim responsibility for such an attack as it may complicate things for the U.S. Without referring to the specific attack I can say that the F-35 is the ideal aircraft for such an attack.”

As so often in the Middle East, especially in the shadow war between Israel and Iran, it’s hard to know exactly what happened. The tale changes with whoever tells it, and why they’re telling it. Still, we can make some educated guesses.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-israel-really-bomb-iraq-200000449.html

;-)


Paul Emery

George

Are you trying to say that Bush did not lose the war in Iraq? Can you name one thing he accomplished at the cost of 5000 American lives and trillions of dollars of debt that have to this day not been paid for? I challenge you to come up with one accomplishment our country achieved as a result of Bush's war.

Also George, if you recall, Nixon escalated the war into Laos and Cambodia, with the loss of an additional 22,000 American lives before he threw in the flag saying we quit as the Viet Cong were storming through Saigon dragging people off helicopters as they tried to escape.

Senior Bush got it right with pushing Saddam and his troops back into Baghdad and getting the hell out.

Now we've got trump trying to save his election with as yet unverified reasons to escalate our tensions with Iran to possibly war. He will need to answer to Congress about reasons for the assassination so we'll see. It's all because we are still in Iraq even though they want us out and are storming the streets.

Bill Tozer

THE LATEST ON IRAN

“.....You might think American Democrats would respond in similar fashion, or at least you might have thought so in an earlier era of American history. In fact, Democrats have pretty much universally condemned President Trump for taking strong action in retaliation for Iran’s besieging the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad–in some cases, just hours after they criticized Trump for responding weakly to the embassy attack. No one expects consistency from Democrats.

Iran has been issuing threats nonstop–no surprise there–and President Trump has again responded via (what else?) Twitter:”

“.........I like that–52 sites for the 52 American hostages, taken during a low ebb of American history and now, perhaps, to be avenged. Is Trump serious? I think so, yes. It reminds me of a story about Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses Grant. Or maybe it was Sherman. I couldn’t readily find it in my Civil War library, but it goes something like this: Lincoln was riding in a carriage in close proximity to Union troops, maybe he was reviewing them. A Union soldier approached Lincoln’s carriage and accosted the president, telling him a story that he thought Lincoln would hear sympathetically. The soldier had had some sort of conflict with the commanding general–Grant, I think, although it might have been Sherman–and the general had threatened to shoot the soldier if he didn’t obey orders. The soldier related this story in an outraged manner, but Lincoln replied along the lines of: “I know General Grant [or Sherman], and I believe he would do it. If I were you, I would do what he says.”

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/01/the-latest-on-iran.php

George Rebane

PaulE 731pm - We're not going to recircle that barn Paul. You will never accept the results of Bush2's Gulf War as having had any benefit to the security of Europe's oil supply, mid-east power balance, and the post-Saddam self-determination of the Iraqi people. Was it 'perfect victory'? Far from it. The same 'victory' with warts and all can be argued (but not with you) about Afghanistan. I'll have more to say later about my recommendations for our mid-east policy going forward. But I don't think you guys have anything to recommend other that rehashing TDS motivated grousings.

Walt

Here we go. Emery trying to write history again.
Try reading it first Emery.

Bill Tozer

@ 4:58 pm
“Bill
You seemed to not complain about Bush when he was totally incompetent in dealing with
the lead up to 9-11 when the Saudis were openly enrolling in flight schools......”.

Well Paul, I don’t seem to complain because I don’t want to be accused of going on a diatribe and copying and pasting to anchor something. Something bad, I imagine. That hurt my feeling and made me feel sad. I am a sensitive guy of the Phil Donahue school of thought. So, no complaining today!

The way I see it is Trump wants us out of Iraq as well. He wants to bring our troops home wherever possible, so much so that Mad Dog Mattis the Warrior Monk resigned over Trump’s America First Policy. And John Bolton, the war hawk who never saw something he did not want to bomb, yet now beloved by the media (and you) got the boot for his hawkish approach to Little Rocketman.

So, how does Trump do it? I could be wrong, but Trump’s plan appears to be to fall back and let Saudia Arabia check the Iranians. The old Shite vs Sunni conflict. We arm the crap out of the Saudis and they, in turn, kill the Persians and other Arabs. Muslim vs Muslim and let Allah sort them out.

George Washington warned is not to have long lasting alliances with countries. Things change.
Now, click your red ruby slippers together three times and say, “ Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi.”

Bill Tozer

“But I don't think you guys have anything to recommend other that rehashing TDS motivated grousings.

Posted by: George Rebane | 04 January 2020 at 07:41 PM“

Ah contraire, Dr. Rebane. If I may be so bold to point out we are Not rehashing TDS motivated grousing. It may have started out that why, but the keen observer will note that we have regressed into BDS for the past several hours.

Let’s do the Time Warp again!

Paul Emery

Bill writes "Trump’s plan appears to be to fall back and let Saudi Arabia check the Iranians."

You've got to be kidding!!! The Saudi's can't even scratch out a victory in Yemen with millions of dollars of our aid and you think they can match up to Iran? You are either hopelessly uneducated in the matter or you believe that this is what Trump has up his sleeve. Unbelievable!!!

Paul Emery

So George I take it you feel the 5000 American soldiers killed and trillions of dollars spent on the war in Iraq was worth it.

Walt

Still haven't figured it out Emery? Why should they, when they can get others to do their dirty work? (Like US)...

Bill Tozer

Yemen is where the Saudis are slugging it against the Iranians. We (Congress) have put restraints on our friends of the House of Saud. Otherwise....

“ Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi, Khashoggi.”

Walt

Emery. Your boy "O" gave rise to ISIS.. Was it worth it?
He allowed them to thrive and grow. Was it worth it?
"O" refused to stop them. Was it worth it? "O" had lawyers approve every bullet fired. Was it worth it?
A serviceman had to take a bullet before anyone could return fire. Was it worth it?

Walt

Tell ya what Emery, go take a day at any VA hospital. walk around the clinics where the waiting rooms are you ask them if it "was worth it". You will piss your depends at how many answers of "yes" you will get.
Dare ya',, Buzzard of Broad St. Go find out for yourself.
Come on new dude,, grow a pair and do some asking.
I know.. It's easier to hide behind that computer screen and take cheap shots here.

Paul Emery


So Walt I assume you believe that our misadventure in Iraq was worth the 5000 American lives and trillions of dollars of still unpaid debt.

Cheap Irish Whiskey

“So Walt I assume you......”

And there lies the problem

Bill Tozer

Now, let’s all take a breath as passions are know to rise on Saturday nights.

Do we have proof Qasam Soleimammie actually is dead??? Hmmm. I think not.

https://twitter.com/Qasam_Soleimani?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1213318398999965696&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.powerlineblog.com%2Farchives%2F2020%2F01%2Fa-twip-readers-addendum.php

https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/01/Screen-Shot-2020-01-03-at-1.00.10-PM.png?w=996&ssl=1

George Rebane

BillT 904pm - Is it not reasonable to believe that the authorities collected DNA samples from all the hamburger left in that pile of junk that was formerly a vehicle?

George Rebane

Paul, how about we get your take on the country's middle-class mass migrations that I reported on above. I think that is a more immediate and serious problem, especially as it affects the emigrant states like CA. What are your thoughts?

Bill Tozer

Dr. Rebane @ 9:10 pm

I dunno. Did you actually open and read my first link @ 9:04 pm? I think not. If Qasam Soleimammie is not dead, he ain’t feeling to good. Man, it’s hot down there. :)

No worries. AOC thought Trump killed Sean Connery.

Walt

No "misadventure" Emery. Your just an enemy sympathizer.
I see you have no stomach to answer MY questions.. Nice and cowardly of you.

Gregory

Toes 803pm

"Let’s do the Time Warp again!"

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

Bill Tozer

@ 9:10 pm. Tough crowd tonight at Open Mic. Hopefully Scenes will appreciate it. Ok, moving on
—————————
Re Update latest census data.

https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2020-1-3-thoughts-on-the-latest-census-data

Bill Tozer

“You've got to be kidding!!! The Saudi's can't even scratch out a victory in Yemen with millions of dollars of our aid and you think they can match up to Iran? You are either hopelessly uneducated in the matter or you believe that this is what Trump has up his sleeve. Unbelievable!!!

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 January 2020 at 08:12 PM

Now Mr. Emery, who said anything about the Saudis marching up to Iran?
Gotta look at it 180. It’s too keep Iran from marching on up the the Saudis. Plus, Iran has already Henning to march on up the Kingdom’s backside. Yemen is a defensive war in the Saudi’s eyes, but has resulted in way too much civilian casualties. Like, getting sloppy (both sides) in Yemen. A humanitarian crises of mega proportions. The biggest non reported crisis of the year, excluding the attack our democracy, IMHO.

Look, it’s my larger view all we are doing is flipping from backing The Muslim Brotherhood (Iran basically and going with the Saudis (basically Sunnis) to draw our red line in the sand. Kurds? This is the one time we have to trust the Turks, like it or not. Turkey done bit off a 10-20 mile wide corridor at the tip where Syria and Kurdish territory meet (siting the Turkish historical boundary as their reason) and hopefully the Turks are not trying to rebuild the Ottoman Empire. The Turks really don’t like the Arabs. But the Turks have armed and trained 40,000 Kurds to fight Syrians or what have ya.

Bottomline: We are not retreating. We are falling back to a better position. Moving assets around. Where the red line is, who knows at this point. Israel holds her own, cool with Egypt.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery | 04 January 2020 at 08:14 PM
You and your ilk have denigrated the sacrifice of the men who fought the Civil War so maybe you are just misguided?

Paul Emery

So George is this what you refer to as respecting the sovereignty of an independent nation? Apparently we are going to stay in Iraq whether they want us or not. Is this what Bush had in mind when he vowed to create a Democracy in Iraq costing us 5000 lives and trillions of dollars.

Pompeo defends presence in Iraq as its parliament moves to oust U.S. troops

"Iraqi Prime Minister Adil Abdul-Mahdi on Sunday criticized that strike as a "political assassination," according to The Washington Post, and urged parliament to take "urgent measures" to force the exit of American troops. His nation’s lawmakers voted Sunday in favor of a resolution that calls for ending foreign military presence in the country......

"Shortly after Pompeo's appearance on Fox, Iraq’s parliament formally voted to expel American service members from the country, according to the Associated Press — approving a resolution aimed at forcing the U.S. to withdraw roughly 5,000 soldiers stationed across Iraq."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/05/mike-pompeo-iraq-iran-troops-093961

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