Face Masks – A considered view

[Dr Hullett is a longtime friend, colleague, and RR reader.  As systems engineers and developers, we have traveled much of the long road together.  He has given permission to publish this personal correspondence.]

Wayne Hullett, PhD

The coronavirus particles are too small to be seen. A doctor on Youtube suggested thinking about coronavirus particles as the glitter worn by some people at festive events. If you have ever gotten any glitter on you, then you know how difficult it is to get off. As George has pointed out, the source of this glitter is the lungs of people who have the disease, most of whom do not yet have symptoms and thus probably do not know they have it. The glitter exits their bodies with normal breathing, talking, coughs and sneezes, and becomes an aerosol in the air. It can float in the air for several minutes before it settles on the floor, on nearby surfaces, or gets inhaled into the lungs of someone nearby. Those who inhale enough of it also become infected, and after an incubation period, they too become a source of the glitter. Anyone who touches a surface that has accumulated some glitter and then touches their mouth, nose or eyes also lets it into their system and can also become infected, thus becoming another source. This is how it spreads exponentially.

Here is a good discussion of the size of virus particles (the glitter) and how well mask materials trap them.

Three common materials and the amount of virus particles they trap are:

Hankerchief    28%
Surgical Mask    80%
N95 Mask    96%

There are two reasons to wear a mask: 1. to keep particles out and 2. to keep particles in. If you wear a mask to keep from catching the virus, you would want an N95 mask, which requires some care and training in fitting. This is what our doctors and nurses wear when treating coronavirus patients. And the patients (I hope) wear surgical masks to protect the medical personnel.

Now, I am guessing (I am an engineer, not a medical doctor), that the body's immune system can deal with a small number of particles, which is why the N95 masks, at 96% effectiveness) seem to work. Also, older people's immune system does not work as well as when they were young, which would explain the increased mortality with age.

The best reason to wear a mask, it seems to me, is to keep the particles IN; to keep from spreading them. A surgical mask (the blue pleated mask you see in hospital TV shows and any street scene of an Asian country) traps 80% of the particles. This, to me, is huge. If only 20% of the particles are getting into the air and on surfaces, then much fewer people will get infected. I am not sure whether it is 1 for 1 (80% fewer infections), but if the body's immune system is able to handle a small amount of particles, then common sense tells me that there will me many fewer infections, thus reducing the impact on the hospital system and buying us more time to develop an effective treatment or vaccine, resulting in fewer deaths.

So, while social distancing is effective, the next best thing we can do is for EVERYONE, especially the younger who may have only a mild case and not even know they are carriers, to wear surgical masks most of the time. Older folks should stay at home, and wear N95 masks when they have to emerge to buy groceries.

I am troubled by the CDC party line that masks do not help. I think they issued that statement because there is a shortage of masks, and by claiming that they do not help they hope to avert a rush to buy and horde masks, thus denying them to the medical professionals who have a greater need. Even the Surgeon General was defending that lie on TV today. I think the correct approach is to not lie, but to tell the truth and to cure the shortage. There are around 330 million people in the country, and the masks are single use, so I am thinking that we need a production capacity of somewhere between 100 million and 500 million surgical masks per day, and maybe 10% to 20% of that of N95 masks. Considering production capability this country developed in WWII, I would think that is readily achievable, for as long as it takes to develop and get approval for a vaccine. They should be on the supermarket shelves next to the bread and milk (and beer), and cost less than a penny each. In the interim, the CDC and Surgeon General could help not by lying but by showing us how to make the most effective homemade masks from commonly available materials. There are already a number of Youtube videos that show how to make masks of various qualities.

So, the key, for most people, is not to wear the mask to keep from getting the virus, but to keep everyone else from getting it from you, because you may not know you are a carrier. Protect your fellow citizens by wearing a mask.

**** [In my reply I included the following.}

Thanks much Wayne, I will definitely post this.  My take on masks may be a bit more broader than yours.  Not only do they reduce the fraction/size of the exhaled aerosols, but also capture a significant fraction (perhaps not as great as the exhaled part) of the infectious aerosol particles during inhalation.  Bottom line, a wide use of masks will help in two ways to reduce the ‘reproduction’ factor/rate among a population of infected pre-symptomatic and vulnerable uninfected people. 

Comments

[Don Bessee]

Given the high demand for the good masks for medical, first responders and the infected how are we going to quickly meet the added demand for the 300 million general public?

;-)

[scenes]

re: DonB@6:30PM

Oh well, like I opined on the 27th: "I'm not sure what the percentage of disease transmission is by the sick person outputting viruses via touch vs. breathing/sneezing, but I wonder what difference it would make to simply put a mask on everybody for a couple of months.

So, get the N95 thing going by beating on 3M until they produced 30 billion or so of the things,"

Beating on (or bribing) is probably the operative word, although perhaps it's harder to build the magic filter bit than you might think. If it's purely an intellectual property issue, just get out that ol' stick.

As far as their efficacy is concerned, I think I put up a link showing Fauci admiting that they are of value a while back. As usual, you can't trust nobody. I ground through a few papers on the subject (praise be to sci-hub) and they're about as useful as you'd expect. Fauci is now making 'maybe everyone should wear them' noises.

Hey, it's all an odds game in any case. N95's (or N100's) are just a sort of Monte Carlo experiment you get to run.

If anyone is interested, I can post up various methods for reuse,donning and doffing, fit checking. Dunno if a bit of glycerin is of value on a cheapie disposable mask.

[Don Bessee]

The reality -

Coronavirus Battle Creates a Global 'Free-for-All' to Find Masks

China vacuumed up a big share of global supplies after the outbreak emerged in January. It imported 2 billion masks in a five-week period starting then, according to Chinese customs data, roughly equivalent to 2 1/2 months of global production. It also imported 400 million pieces of other protective gear, from medical goggles to biohazard coveralls.

Some factories make products of suspect quality and some sellers will even try to swindle buyers. Last Thursday, a court in the Chinese city of Shaoxing sentenced a man to over 10 years in prison for repeatedly selling what looked like a cargo of masks but had only tree branches inside.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-battle-creates-global-free-185859231.html

;-)

[Don Bessee]

Cali was penny wise pound foolish and now the rooster has come home to roost -

Disposing of more than $200 million in what are now hard-to-replace pandemic response supplies in order to save up to $5.8 million annually is a political travesty deserving of as deep a public investigation as any other serious misdeed of this century.

This is a classic case of what happens when one party is in control of government — either party — and there is no effective loyal opposition to raise red flags and halt ill-advised, short-term financial Band-Aids that push the dire consequences into the future.

Maintaining good government is often not a sexy topic, and voters often fail to appreciate intelligent foresight over headline-grabbing, knee-jerk reactions. They do so at their own peril, as we see now.

If there isn't a ventilator available for you, call your legislator and ask why.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/letters-editor-california-got-rid-100052483.html

;-)

[George Rebane]

DonB 816pm - Could you please repost this comment under the 31mar20 Scattershots where I pointed out this Democrat disgrace. Your detail is more relevant there. Thanks.

[The Estonian Fox]

Yes, don't have a heart attack, from multiple sources-
"As the coronavirus stretches New York City emergency rooms and paramedics to their limits, a regional EMT group has issued new guidelines almost unthinkable even days ago -- if someone's in cardiac arrest and you can't revive them in the field, don't bring them to the emergency room.

The newly implemented order that takes effect Thursday was implemented in an effort to control the surge of patients in hospitals due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

The guidance from the Regional Emergency Medical Services Council of New York City applies to the city as well as Nassau and Suffolk counties. The group, known as REMSCO, is the state-designated coordinating authority for the region."

[The Estonian Fox]

When it comes to masks-
Our esteemed medical & emergency people seem to be missing from the ballpark with being able to forecast. That is, predicting the future. That is, examining the decision tree for emergency planning of possible future events and probablilities thereof.

With this Wuhan virus, the medicos are now considering whether it might be best to wear masks. How difficult is it to arrive at this choice? Do they know droplet sizes of coronaviruses? If not, why not? Are viruses carried on droplets and can stick to the large (10s of micron-size-holes in cheap masks, or are they weaponized into individual "particles" and will not "stick" to any kind of mask? It takes a substantial workout to weaponize anthrax, i.e. make it into really tiny, single-bacteria-spores, as we found out after 9/11. Otherwise it doesn't float very far in the air.

Who, or should it be WHO, our favorite UN sub-organization, is listening to this information that a lot of scientists & engineers already know? Even some (a few?; two?) politicians are capable of learning this as well. Why have they not implemented better information sooner, and not wait 2 months to tell us this?

[The Estonian Fox]

QUIZ time - What do these countries have in common?

U.S., Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Iran, UK, Switzerland, Turkey, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada, Austria. (Hint - rhymes with Aucasians). Seems that the Wuhan virus (WV) has turned out to be a white disease. Sure, Turks & Iranians may not all be formally recognized as white, but that's a distinction with no difference.

So if you were a Chinese bioscientist at the Level 4 biolab in Wuhan, and had instructions from Beijing to further the glory of the country, what better way than to set loose the WV. So what if China loses 10,000,000 people - what can the remaining citizens do? The idea is cleaner and with more plausible deniability than if they delivered a nuke to Seattle.

[The Estonian Fox]

Good news - no school shootings at all so far in 2020. Even with the increase in background gun checks.

Definition of mass shooting seems to have changed on Wikipedia. Covers any shooting with 4 or more VICTIMS, not 4 or more deaths.

"This is a list of mass shootings in the United States that have occurred in 2020.[2][3] This article only includes shootings with at least four total victims, including the shooter(s). As of February 29, there have been 55 shootings that fit this criteria, resulting in 74 deaths and 199 injuries, for a total of 273 victims."

[bewtie]

In the "dumber than a box of rocks" category --Duh Jon Trump said yesterday in reference to the mask shortage, "In many cases the scarf is better; it's thicker. I mean you can -- depending on the material, it's thicker,"

That doesn't really coincide very well with your assessment of the efficiency of various masks above. What is the excuse this time for yet another trump lie that will cost people their lives if followed?

Is trump ignorant (lacking in knowledge or awareness) or just plain stupid (having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense)?

[fish]

Posted by: bewtie | 03 April 2020 at 08:40 AM

That doesn't really coincide very well with your assessment of the efficiency of various masks above. What is the excuse this time for yet another trump lie that will cost people their lives if followed?

Cool story brah......you should test it!

[bewtie]

Sorry, unlike yourself and Fearless Leader, I am neither ignorant nor stupid, which apparently is your excuse.

[fish]

Posted by: bewtie | 03 April 2020 at 09:02 AM

Die Wechseljahre waren für Bertie schwierig

[Walt]

You have your DNR all written up,, right Dougy?
You still haven't said just which LIBshit can do a better job than Trump.(I know.. Because none can even come close.)

[Scott O]

brow-beaten 8:40 "What is the excuse this time for yet another trump lie that will cost people their lives if followed?"
Please keep tabs on those stats, bowie - let us know the body count of Trump advice-followers vs the 'free-thinkers'. So far it's your side that's losing.
Maybe it's time for another Hug-A-Chinaman day!
You could get Biden to organise it.

[bewrty]

In the category of "fuck you America" presidential nepotistic stooge Jared Kushner said this about the federal stash of medical supplies “The notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile. It’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use.”

I guess "our stockpile" refers to the trump cabal's personal use. Apparently Americans who live in states aren't supposed to touch Kushner's stash.

[George Rebane]

Looks like 'bertie' has donned a new sack. He should stop watching the C19 briefings, they're way too complex for him (Hmm, I wonder why he and his ilk watch them when their own lamestream outlets no longer carry the briefings.) Trump's advice on face coverings echoed that of Drs Fauci and Brix. In short, put some kind of cloth over your face if you don't have a N95, it will stop a whole slew of conversation-spawned aerosol droplets when you're out and about. And this was another reason for the Left to pile on??!

But Kushner's report really went over their heads. Most people not burdened with two-digit IQs understood the message that the national stockpile is a back-up and not the first line of supply for the cited items. In our federal system it's the responsibility of the states to prepare themselves for the various kinds of emergencies that they may encounter given their different locations, topographies, sizes, industries, population densities, urban areas, ...; another case of one size does not fit all (which is a basic leftwing tenet of governance). When states can no longer handle their emergency, then they may appeal to other states or the national stockpile for help. All too complex for the liberal mind.

[Walt]

Guess Dipshit actually believes Trump is the right man for the job. Since Dung can't name anyone he thinks is better.

[scenes]

I was thinking of our local Troll's observation about how President Trump, famous epidemiologist and man about town, said that a thick scarf is better.

And I do thank xir for the quote, it's on the MSM agenda this morning I noticed. Anything to win 2020.

The funny thing is that it's probably kinda true. I don't doubt that more layers of material = better filtering (why not after all?) and the sad truth is that the average 'murican probably can't properly put on the soft version of an N95 mask. Aside from the dummies with their noses still showing, you do really have to check the seal once it's on, plus there is sort of a protocol for donning. Medium story short, some sort of elastic lower face cover bandana thing might well work better for the hoi polloi.

A decent emergency government project might be to, quick like a bunny, find some readily available cloth that can be stylish, do a passable job of improving your odds, and a design that fits well. Make a billion. Dump 'em everywhere.

[scenes]

GeorgeR: "But Kushner's report really went over their heads. Most people not burdened with two-digit IQs understood the message that the national stockpile is a back-up and not the first line of supply for the cited items."

Hell, if the states had direct access, Cuomo (or whoever thought of it first) would have cleared them out toot sweet. There ain't no altruists in the Governor's office.

It's amusing how people think that the feds can magically fix disasters, like there's some giant FEMA army, probably in huge FEMA blimps, ready to swoop in. Truth is, their main super power is the ability to write checks.

[fish]

Posted by: bewrty | 03 April 2020 at 10:47 AM

I guess "our stockpile" refers to the trump cabal's personal use. Apparently Americans who live in states aren't supposed to touch Kushner's stash.

Es muss weh tun, so dumm zu sein.

[fish]

Posted by: scenes | 03 April 2020 at 12:07 PM

Truth is, their main super power is the ability to write checks.

Truth is, their only super power is the ability to write checks. And when they are really on top of the situation....to know when to get out of the way.

[scenes]

Cool.

https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-mask-using-hydro-knit-shop-towel-filters-better-2020-4

Just remember to not soak them in Brakleen first.

[scenes]

Think your small town is ready for the China Virus? No matter, it'll all get swept into the places with political clout.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/03/de-blasio-new-york-coronavirus

[Mary Wanna]

Obama began a program to develop a high-speed manufacturing process for surgical masks in 2015 to be used in case of a pandemic but of course the incompetent bumbling fool Trump has failed after 5 years to actually get the thing going, no doubt because Obama thought of the idea,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/federal-government-spent-millions-to-ramp-up-mask-readiness-but-that-isnt-helping-now/2020/04/03/d62dda5c-74fa-11ea-a9bd-9f8b593300d0_story.html

[Walt]

LIBS can really be dicks.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/catholic-group-slams-de-blasio-questioning-new-york-coronavirus-field-hospital
"Hoylman, who is gay, told NBC News that coronavirus is "too delicate to leave it to televangelists, purveyors of the faith, to handle out medical needs." "

"New York City Council Speaker Corey Johnson said he found it "extremely disturbing" that Samaritan's Purse would be involved in New York City's relief efforts and said he would be "monitoring the situation closely." "

"I said immediately to my team that we had to find out exactly what was happening," de Blasio said. "Was there going to be an approach that was truly consistent with the values and the laws in New York City, that everyone would be served and served equally?"

[Walt]

Leave it to Marty (in drag) to post a paywalled paragraph.
A good way to hide the rest of the story. Just post what looks good to him.
Now tell us why it was never implemented.

[Walt]

The REST of the story.
Sure Marty, blame Trump.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/federal-government-spent-millions-to-ramp-up-mask-readiness-but-that-isnt-helping-now/
"In September 2018, the Trump administration received detailed plans for a new machine designed to churn out millions of protective respirator masks at high speed during a pandemic.

The ONLY part that mentions O'loser.
"The plans, submitted to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) by the medical manufacturer O&M Halyard, were the culmination of a venture unveiled almost three years earlier by the Obama administration.

But HHS did not proceed with making the machine."

[fish]

Posted by: Mary Wanna | 03 April 2020 at 03:10 PM

Mary ist gerne am empfangenden Ende des Analsex.

[Mary Wanna]

Walt, look at the bottom of the Washington Post page. There is a pop up that lets you sign up for free coronavirus coverage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/federal-government-spent-millions-to-ramp-up-mask-readiness-but-that-isnt-helping-now/2020/04/03/d62dda5c-74fa-11ea-a9bd-9f8b593300d0_story.html

[Mary Wanna]

That Fish Troll is one strange bird.

[Walt]

Nice try. I don't "sign up" for TROLL spam.
It must be the only kind of emails you get.

[fish]

Posted by: Mary Wanna | 03 April 2020 at 03:43 PM

So sagt der Kommentator, der es für Geld in den Arsch nimmt.

[Walt]

Well Marty(in drag),, seems it your witch Pelosi that's the one who dropped the ball.. SHE and your side didn't FUND the manufacturing and authorization.
Lay off the dope for a while..

[Walt]

One from one of the local RABID foaming at the mouth LIBS..
YUP.. It's the REPUBs. fault that the KUNG FLU has hit Nevada County. (From the Union feed)

"Linda Kelleher
It true, due to Swift Communication Editorial Policy, The Union is trying to minimize or conceal the fact, the Truckee -Tahoe Basin, includes all counties that have Trump Republican State Senator Dahle and Congressman LaMalfa, is rapidly becoming a hot spot. Five days after Testing, Eastern Nevada County positives have climbed in the usual pattern of an area that has high rate of contagion. This pattern is also happening in Wahoe County and or Reno. The only good thing is that more populated Western Nevada County is reflecting a lower rate at this time. However as I have tracked this since…See More"

[George Rebane]

Did Mary Wanna forget to consider why Obama didn't "get the (mask) thing going" in the almost four years he had left while no one was attempting to impeach him or investigate him forty ways from Sunday?

[Gregory]

walt 408pm

Linda Kelleher nee Campbell, the crazy who phoned in the bomb scare against the TP marchers in a past 4th of July parade, is apparently off her meds a'gin.

[Walt]

George. Your better off asking the MJ plant for an answer.

[George Rebane]

Walt 452pm - My 429pm was posed merely for illustrative purposes as part of RR's ongoing expose of the bankrupt liberal mind.

[Don Bessee]

G @ 437 - with all the public meetings closed down she must be having withdrawals from not being able to scream at someone in close proximity! Right now if she did her usual spit flying purple in the face rants near someone there would likely be violence. LOL

;-)

[Walt]

I know George, but when dealing with those that are rooting for the virus to take the country down just to smear Trump, a little extra poo flinging is justified.

[scenes]

Mossad officer describes covert global battle to obtain ventilators at all costs

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-officer-describes-covert-global-battle-to-obtain-ventilators-at-all-costs/

[scenes]

From the Every Man For Himself Department. A post from a reddit nursing group:

"My hospital initially treated covid patients with airborne precautions. We have since switched to treating them as droplet precautions.

Imagine my surprise when I go to the mail room, and all of the "O" level (CEO,CFO,CNO, assistant CNO etc) employees are wearing N95 masks. Not only that, their secretaries are also wearing the n95 masks. These people are not even on the same floor as patients, yet we have enough supplies for them to be protected, and it's a free for all for the rest of us to even come across a surgical mask.

I have never been so disappointed in my choice of career."

[scenes]

I've read a couple of articles on this:

https://www.thebipartisanpress.com/news/cuomo-i-am-signing-an-exec-order-to-seize-ventilators-and-ppe/

and it occurred to me that if I was, let's just say, a local hospital administrator who happened to read these hallowed pages to keep an eye on the Local Deplorables and laugh at their Crazy Trump Worship, I'd start thinking about boating accidents and off-site storage units and whatnot. This is purely a theoretical discussion mind you.

Just sayin'.

[D]

I took a half-face respirator I use when for painting and such that uses screw on organic vapor cartridges, etc. and removed the innards of an old organic vapor cartridge. Then I used the optional press on dust filters that attach to the cartridges and added a cut out disk from a HEPA vacuum bag. That is supposed to be good for "99.97% (ASME, U.S. DOE)[5][6] of particles whose diameter is equal to 0.3 μm; with the filtration efficiency increasing for particle diameters both less than and greater than 0.3 μm"

Assuming that not all virus particles are virus only and most are probably attached to water molecules I think it would be a pretty safe mask to wear.

I can clean the rubber mask body with alcohol, isopropyl 70%, or the gallons of 190 proof alcohol I had stashed for medicinal purposes and replace the HEPA disks easily enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA

[George Rebane]

Thank you Mr D. For our family and friends Jo Ann has sewn heavy cotton masks that are both colorful and provide a modicum of protection, not as good as your rig, but then we're playing probabilities game here. In any case - et illegitimi non carborundum.

[scenes]

re: GR@12:22

At the risk of being repetitive.

https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-mask-using-hydro-knit-shop-towel-filters-better-2020-4

[Bill Tozer]

Necessity is the mother of invention.

https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/04/IMG_2775.jpg?

[Walt]

OHHH how the Left tries to paint the Right as the bad guy, the those pesky facts come out like high value trump cards.
Blame the Tea Party? LOL!! Nope,, Barry and the boys..
https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/04/stockpile-shortage-barack-obama-tea-party-claim/
"An April 3 article from ProPublica claims that “congressional Republicans elected on the Tea Party wave forced the White House to accept sweeping cuts to federal spending.”
Then conveniently LEAVES OUT
"It avoids including multiple reports that disprove the claim that congressional Republicans were to blame for the national stockpile shortage."

ProPublica’s article does admit that the Obama-Biden administration actually proposed cutting funds to the Strategic National Stockpile (SNS) – after claiming that the Tea Party was to blame.

In fact, the Obama administration also proposed cuts to the SNS in 2011, 2014 and 2015, according to CDC data reviewed by the Daily Caller.

An April 3 USA Today fact check on whether the Obama administration depleted the federal stockpile of N95 masks also disputes ProPublica’s report."

Proggys NEVER own up to their own actions.

[Bill Tozer]

Last week

California union digs up 39M masks to sell to hospitals: 'Turn over every rock'

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/california-union-digs-up-39-million-masks-to-sell-to-hospitals-turn-over-every-rock

https://www.seiu-uhw.org/press/union-locates-massive-supply-of-n95-masks/

[fish]

Well I can envision a few extra deaths.....

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1246569164325752833

https://mobile.twitter.com/nickgillespie/status/1246451361648193539

Like when a certain “Green Libertarian” head goes all asplodie after Trumps second inaguration.....or when Bertie Cross gets to the bottom of her last Valium bottle!

[fish]

DON’T GET TOO EXCITED, THIS IS IN VITRO NOT IN HUMANS YET: Coronavirus Can be Stopped in 48 Hours Using a Simple Anti-Parasitic Drug: Monash University. But it’s promising because Ivermectin is a common and well-tolerated drug. So stay tuned.

Plus you absolutely won't get Heartworm if you are taking it! Consult your veterinarian first however!

https://in.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-stopped-48-hours-using-103100205.html

[Bertie]

"the bankrupt liberal mind." pretty funny... kettle calling the pot black. If the liberal mind is bankrupt (an unusual term but appropriate considering republicans care more about the bankrupt economy than people's lives as evidenced by their paltry response to the pandemic) then the conservative mind is just plain stupid, unaware, and incapable of discerning between fact and fiction. Take for example the 9 republican governors who have yet to institute any kind of shelter at home directives, the churches in republican governed states that continue to hold live services, or republicans in Wisconsin who blocked the Democratic Governor's request to postpone elections for no apparent reason other than than the perception that somehow it will help them preserve power because low turnouts favor republicans and republicans are less likely to shelter in place. This goes beyond the pale to just plain dimwitted. Or what about Jared Kushner, who knows nothing at all about anything beyond being a slumlord, who has emerged as the point man for daddy-in-law's pandemic response team. Stories coming from the healthcare experts on the team suggest Kushner is hindering progress by forcing the team to waste their time discussing his half baked ideas out of fear they will get fired which will stymie progress even more.

So really George, your continuous and moronic attack of liberals is really just another republican pile of BS smokescreen to deflect attention away from the truth...republicans make hideous decisions based more on a distorted ideology than health and welfare of the American people. Why else would they be so laissez faire about a pandemic? It shows a lack of judgment and to attack people who criticize republican incompetence is a disservice to a country in crisis that needs facts not the ideologically based propaganda and divisiveness you serve up.

[scenes]

Everybody's Bestest, Bertie sez: "Why else would they be so laissez faire about a pandemic? "

Dunno, are they? Explain Sweden to us.

[fish]

Posted by: Bertie | 05 April 2020 at 10:44 AM

It shows a lack of judgment and to attack people who criticize republican incompetence is a disservice to a country in crisis that needs facts not the ideologically based propaganda and divisiveness you serve up.

Hey Bertie Dunning-Krueger checking in to save the country from itself.

[Walt]

Hummm... Where did Burt pilfer that Proggy screed from?
He worse the "O" without a teleprompter when it comes to
posting. (never can use his own thought pattern)

[scenes]

fish: "Hey Bertie Dunning-Krueger checking in to save the country from itself."

Oh well, it's just part of the semi-organized effort to blame Trump and Deplorables for killing grammaw on the ventilator. It's of slight intellectual honesty, but hey, any old fib in a storm.

Next thing you know, there'll be Red v. Blue scoreboards for deaths, first date of quarantine, slight missteps by R v. B governors. A giant World Wrestling Federation minus the charm. (BTW, how come so many sick people in Blue states? Don't they know how to wash their hands? /s).

A mini-story in all this that tells you all you need to know about the Blue Mob is the war against hydroxychloroquine. A half dozen studies say it might really help, one study that I've run into that says it doesn't do much, Trump mentions it as a possible aid. That last fact is enough to bring out the troops searching the interwebz for bad news on the substance with a fair amount of hope that it fails. I guess it's no different than wishing for a recession.

[scenes]

"Take for example the 9 republican governors who have yet to institute any kind of shelter at home directives, "

I hate to respond to a crazy person, but that actually makes sense.

You can only shut down the economy for so long and it's best to wait until the virus actually shows up. There'll be an optimal time to turn on a quarantine and then to turn it off, killing the disease without killing the patient is a tricky thing in both oncology and quarantines.

Why on Earth would Wyoming have the same stay at home rules and timing as NYC?

[George Rebane]

re Bertie 1044am - Perfect, another vituperative screed that offers nothing other than baseless attacks on the progressives' ideological opposites. No Democrat has yet to put forth a competing national response policy (let alone a demonstrably better one) to that now carried out by the current administration. Some on the Left are beginning to get a glimmer of this huge political deficit, and rumors are emerging that Bumblebrain is currently ensconced with advisers trying to cobble together an alternative C19 response policy that he can take on the campaign trail if and when the DNC will allow him. In the interval Cuomo is making political hay on many fronts. Stand by and rig for ram Joe.

[scenes]

"an alternative C19 response policy that he can take on the campaign trail "

Well, that should be easy enough. Simply use 100% hindsight, meander on about 'how it should have been done' while sniffing at any available female hair, talk about the future in easily deniable generalities.

Minus the female hair part, just like an Obama speech read off the teleprompter written by 50 staff members.

[George Rebane]

scenes 1154am - Don't think coming out with yet one more 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' screed will cut the mustard with the electorate. That's all the socialists cum communists have been able do so far (eg see 1044am), so Bumblebrain's contribution will look like more of the same ol' same ol'.

[Bill Tozer]

Face masks are highly recommended. Of all the things one can do, I believe the distancing is the best method. Seems hard to catch anything besides the common cold if you don’t leave the property.

Ahead of the curve. CDC recommended having a spray bottle of disinfectant in the car for mobile use and one at home for wiping down those counters as millions of women folk already do.
The CDC homemade recipe for disinfectant is a gallon of water and 1/4 cup of bleach....exactly what I splash on my arms, hands, neck, and top of ears before tearing out poison oak, lol Good for multiple uses. My own spray bottles of disinfectant consist of liquid anti-bacterial soap watered down with a bunch of isopropyl alcohol, put into two old spritzers. Better than buying fancy dispensers of the fu-fu juice, stronger, and cheaper.

Ok, all off topic. Topic to come

[fish]

Posted by: scenes | 05 April 2020 at 11:40 AM

I hate to respond to a crazy person, but that actually makes sense.

Hey...it's your call but I think you should have gone with your first instinct!

I understand the impulse to respond though....she's so delightfully crazy one would expect her to be up on someones roof wearing a down coat and thong/Speedo. Anything you do or say leads to a spittle flecked response worthy of a Manson or Unibomber.

Seriously....you guys have chemicals in the water up there....it seems that you have a ton more crazy than one would expect under more normal conditions?

[Walt]

Like I said. The LIBS are rooting for the virus.

[Gregory]

Half the cases are in the Democratic/Democratic-Socialist strongholds of New York State and City.

Why? Because of knee-jerk reactionary action against Trump's early actions... and anger that the Impeachment debacle ended as expected, rather than their dreamed endings.

Everyone, in every state, can choose for themselves to shelter in place even if it isn't backed up in the end by government employees with guns.

[Bill Tozer]

Dr. Rebane, scholars, and fellow scumbags:

re: woulda, coulda, shoulda until you shoulda all over yourselves.

When you wake up (come to) and find yourself neck deep in quicksand and sinking, the first thing you ask yourself is “How do I get out of here?”, not “How did I get into here?” There will be plenty of time to figure out how you got yourself into the fine mess after you get out of the hole.

Nothing can get back to “normal” or the new normal until the Chinese Virus is stamped down. Then we can reopen segments of society/the economy and get America back to work. First things first. Both sides appear to not grasp the seriousness of The Plague.

The Blame Game: Good simple read.

‘So many to blame for coronavirus crisis, so don’t bother: Goodwin’

https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/so-many-to-blame-for-coronavirus-crisis-so-dont-bother-goodwin/

[Walt]

Why don't we have enough face masks? Because "O" dropped the ball.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/05/usa-today-true-no-indication-obama-admin-replenished-mask-supply/

"The Obama administration significantly depleted the federal stockpile of N95 respirator masks to deal with the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009 and never rebuilt the stockpile despite calls to do so, according to reports."

In simple words, even Burt can (maybe) comprehend.

[Bill Tozer]

“Here's the mantra for the day: Wear a mask. Get back to work!”

‘I'm Mad as Hell, and I'm Not Going to Take This Anymore'

https://townhall.com/columnists/wayneallynroot/2020/04/05/im-mad-as-hell-and-im-not-going-to-take-this-anymore-n2566345

[scenes]

fish: "Hey...it's your call but I think you should have gone with your first instinct!"

I meant that the differing Governor's responses made sense. I should have been more clear. This English language stuff, it's inexact.

gregory: "Why? Because of knee-jerk reactionary action against Trump's early actions"

Interesting idea, it honestly hadn't occurred to me. WE HATE TRUMP FOR TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS, SO LET'S HAVE A BIG OL' CHINESE NEW YEARS PARTY & MARDI GRAS, THAT'LL SHOW HIM.

Dunno how you extract that from over-dense populations, big Chinese populations, mass transit, and (in the case of New Orleans) high BMI. Somebody with a giant data set is thinking about this, but will only publish if it's politically correct. The city dweller version of JIT delivery (go to the store or the restaurant every day) isn't looking real swift right now though.

billt: " the first thing you ask yourself is “How do I get out of here?”,"

Not if you're trying to win an election at any cost. The Mob's gonna Mob.

walt: "The Obama administration significantly depleted the federal stockpile of N95 respirator masks"

Oh well. A combination of hindsight and ponderous government. Truth is, problems that can happen nationally should probably be dealt with locally. Fedgov caches only work when an issue is regional or smaller. You not only get squabbling over a diminishing store, but you get the problem of transportation.

[Bill Tozer]

For Gregory

https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/04/Screen-Shot-2020-03-31-at-8.39.11-PM.png?w=1000&ssl=1

[Gregory]

toes 147pm

close enough for local gov't work.

[George Rebane]

re 147pm - It's true even down to the very nits - When there's a problem, don't bet against government as being its source.

[scenes]

ah, now there you go. (warning: bang on the translate button)

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/hemliga-finska-beredskapslager-oppnas

[Bill Tozer]

Masks. Can we wear gloves and masks into the banks now?

MASKS FOR THEE, NOT FOR ME
“Heh. Let’s not be ridiculous. Criticizing Trump is all in a day’s work, but wearing an unstylish face mask? Especially when one has already decamped for the countryside? That’s something else”

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/masks-for-thee-not-for-me.php

On the Dear Diary side of the ledger, I saw a couple of ladies talking a walk near Western Gateway today, one who was wearing this big black homemade looking face mask, cut into the shape of a black heart. Couldn’t tell if it was middle aged Joan Jett because the size of the mask,
covering the face, but the Queen of Hearts she most certainly was not. Creepy looking thang.

Maybe Dr. Rebane could grace us with pics of JoAnne’s handiwork. Bet Dr Rebane is walking around in a pink poodle mask. lol.