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15 April 2020

Comments

Bill Tozer

Bernie turned out to be just another politician selling out to the highest bidder.

https://www.facebook.com/KingforCongress/photos/a.169008886506462/3698154723591843/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3960134217330855&set=gm.918995285222249&type=3&theater

D

How much will our society be willing to accept in the name of contagion avoidance in order to get the economy going?

Will the people go for GPS tracking, temperatures taken before entering the workplace or dining out, and so forth?

George Rebane

D 125pm - at this stage of the game, don't you think that people who have a fever will not immediately self-sequester, request a test, and start an intensive watch over their symptoms so that they can have their physician get them into a hospital before things get really bad?? Who's enough of an idiot to continue going out after sensing a rise in temperature, and probably otherwise not feeling up to par (see the symptoms table I posted)?

rl crabb

Who's enough of an idiot? Apparently quite a few of our neighbors believe they're immune. We were out yesterday to mail some time-sensitive packages and were somewhat surprised to see many people out and about going about their usual business without any hint of protective clothing, including senior citizens. Parking lots were as full as they were before the plague.
It all goes to prove that there is no one village idiot in Nevada County. We all take turns

Bill Tozer

Mr Crabbman

Today, while driving a dog to the vet, I saw a lady wearing a most unique and practical face mask. It was a Huggies diaper. Not a bad idea. Has its own ape to keep it one. The vet was another story. I had to wait outside in the car, a nice lady (with a great sense of humor) came out and took the old boy, and disappeared back into the office. When it was all said and done, I handled her my credit card through the window and told her to just sign it for me. They definitely were taking it seriously.

Still have not made one trip to your neck of the woods. Heard it’s still a zoo. Still haven’t gone to do laundry either, so I am protecting the innocent.

The Estonian Fox

George, re "duly chastened"-

Old saying - "Man (in this case The Union) will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on."

You can only do what you do. Can't force someone to love you.

fish

Posted by: Bill Tozer | 15 April 2020 at 06:26 PM


Necessity being the mother of invention.......waiting for HEPA filtration in the form of a sanitary napkin taped across the face.....or perhaps a tampon for each nostril.

Bill Tozer

re: Autocracy rising

While we all (ok, most of us) are going along with the Great Hunkering with our self-imposed exile, practicing social distancing, and washing our paws, we are going along with full knowledge that these are temporary measures. We voluntarily to give up the rights to peacefully assemble, freedom of association, freedom of worship, etc. I would have no problem with some “public servant” limiting Church services or gatherings to ten people....if that ten person rule applied equality across the board to supermarkets, office buildings, pharmacies, gas stations, every place. Not good to single out freedom of religion and worship or not worship as one chooses.

I am not convinced the restrictions on our civil liberties will get back to normal....Pandemic or no pandemic. I am just waiting for some tryannt wannabee to declare in the future that this is the new normal. Yes, we are playing nice right now, going along, being good law abiding citizens.

Authority is good. It’s purpose is to be benefit the governed. Power is bad. It’s purpose is to benefit only the one yielding power.

‘The Coronavirus Is Exposing Little Tyrants All Over The Country’

“Some mayors and governors seem to think their authority is limitless in the face of the pandemic. They need a remedial lesson in the Constitution”

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/13/the-coronavirus-is-exposing-little-tyrants-all-over-the-country/

Bill Tozer

ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS was the phrase I was looking for in the above post, albeit it is power lusting politicians and faceless prune bureaucrats being arbitrary and capricious, not judges.
——————————————————————
‘READ IT: Attorney General Barr Warns Officials Targeting The Faithful, Backs Church Lawsuit’

https://www.dailywire.com/news/read-it-attorney-general-barr-warns-officials-targeting-the-faithful-backs-church-lawsuit
—————————-
Possible ‘Imprisonment’ Or Fine Of Up To $5,000 For Violating Maryland’s Executive Order On Face Coverings

https://www.dailywire.com/news/possible-imprisonment-or-fine-of-up-to-5000-for-violating-marylands-executive-order-on-face-coverings

MikeL

Next up ...the Climate Change Emergency .. I am making an executive order that only essential workers be allowed to run internal combustion engines.

scenes

billt: "Pandemic or no pandemic. I am just waiting for some tryannt wannabee to declare in the future that this is the new normal."

Oh, you just won't notice so much. I think it's a dead nuts certainty that any new tracking software on phones (for example) is never going to go away. A good case can be made for keeping up on where all your fellow citizens are at all times in an age of plague, but darn if that isn't generally useful. It'll help determine if you need an ad for Triscuits(tm) if nothing else.

rlcrabb: "(we) were somewhat surprised to see many people out and about going about their usual business "

My own experience has been that the homeless are going about their usual business, plus some, not so much jus' regular folks. That plus the $0 bail and turn & burn at the jail shows how quickly everyday law enforcement can disappear. Keep yer doors locked. As per usual, in any kind of sketchier situations, you are on your own.

The lack of (what everybody now knows as) PPE for grocery story and pharmacy clerks seems flat-out criminal though. There is low hanging fruit in who to protect and I would think that would be it.

MikeL: "Next up ...the Climate Change Emergency "

Since that lacks the fear of drowning in lung fluids, probably not so much. It'll still serve to feed the coffers of many many 'green' nonprofits though....and you know exactly what the 'green' part of that is (rubs fingers together).


scenes

georger: "at this stage of the game, don't you think that people who have a fever will not immediately self-sequester, request a test, and start an intensive watch over their symptoms so that they can have their physician get them into a hospital before things get really bad?? Who's enough of an idiot to...."

you might as well just stop right there.

That made me think of the bit of TV I allow myself, in this case a certain cop show that's live (or nearly so) and was watching some interactions. My favorites were the highly common situation in metro areas consisting of formerly decent motels, owned by East Asians, inhabited by young black male drug dealers and their obese white girlfriends. I suppose there's a reason that stereotypes exist. In any case, these are hypersocial people and won't stay cooped up long, the police are getting increasingly irritable about the whole thing, you can see how no one will cover themselves in glory.

Sitting in the scenesbunker with plenty of wine and coffee, it's easy to second-guess the behavior of cops and robbers. It's best to just stay out of everyone's way during the dramatic part of the play.

scenes

re: moi@8:28AM pardon. I meant 'southern Asians', not 'east'.

D

George, re 156pm

I refer to the loss of personal “freedoms” like the right-to-privacy if track and trace is implemented for asymptomatic carriers, and the latest theory that you can shed virus before you show symptoms.
I agree that most people will do the right thing. You are not accounting for the fact that not everyone will do as you would hope they would.

George Rebane

D 1004am - Sad but true. Everybody never does the hoped for thing. Nevertheless, the world operates on the basis of aggregate behaviors, and has done so for billions of years.

D

“San Francisco sounded the “back to work” bell too soon during the 1918 pandemic and doubled their death toll within a couple of months. Perhaps if the most at risk (would require access to medical records) were told to continue the self quarantine procedures the rest of us could get back to normal with minimal risk to others.

The first great San Francisco pandemic came to a close with a citywide celebration, at noon on Nov. 21, 1918.

A whistle blew, church bells rang, and citizens who had endured sickness, death and many hard days of sacrifice to battle the Spanish influenza tore off their mandatory masks and threw them into the streets.

“After four weeks of muzzled misery, San Francisco unmasked at noon yesterday and ventured to draw its breath,” The Chronicle reported the next day, describing the scene. “Despite the published prayers of the Health Department for conservation of gauze, the sidewalks and runnels were strewn with the relics of a torturous month.

Except that wasn’t the end. The flu roared back in January, nearly doubling the death toll, and taking advantage of a city that had completely let down its guard. The Bay Area, up until then a national pandemic success story, became a cautionary tale.

History is full of lessons, but this one seems to be screaming through the decades, more than a century later, carrying a message for this exact Bay Area moment. As some locals in 2020 strain to interpret positive coronavirus trends as an excuse to relax orders in the Bay Area, the dead of 1919 whisper: “Make sure you don’t give up the fight too soon.”

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-s-1918-Spanish-flu-debacle-A-15191518.php

D

Quotation mark at the beginning should go before “The first great San Francisco pandemic”

Scott O

re Obama's quote - "Calling Sanders a “man who has devoted his life to giving voice to working people’s hopes”"
I'd love to know the secret code for 'working people'.
I worked since I was 12 and he doesn't have a clue what my 'hopes' are.
Bill Gates?
He works.
Franklin Graham?
He works.

And...
"A more forward-looking and comprehensive deal would include Joe’s early resignation at the two-year mark for obvious (mental) health reasons,..."
But it's still Biden for Pres!
The KVMR crack newscaster better get busy on those election signs.

fish

Posted by: Scott O | 16 April 2020 at 05:33 PM

"A more forward-looking and comprehensive deal would include Joe’s early resignation at the two-year mark for obvious (mental) health reasons..."


You are way more generous than the "New Vanguard" will be........President Joe will spend much less time in the White House during a Biden administration than he already has as both Senator and Veep.

I'll put money down that he doesn't go 6 weeks past the inauguration after which we will of course suffer under the reign of President Kamala "Backdoor" Harris the First, Long May She Reign.

George Rebane

Gentlemen - second wave issues should be discussed under the appropriate post.

t

I am not sure what Brian Hamilton did to you. Can you fine tune that for a dummy like me? The paper is now in trouble like the SacBee is as well. I have suggested many times they need to start using other inputs to balance the lefty BS in the AP and the rest. But they never listen. So we will probably lose them and that is just too bad.

D

t: If I am not mistaken Jo Ann Rebane is on the editorial board of The Union. Does she not have any say in the political balance of the paper? I doubt that that there is a lefty BS bias. People alternately say the paper is Left biased or Right biased depending on whether or not they agree with what they are reading. If more articles, columns, or letters seem left biased it may be because this county is not overwhelmingly Republican.
That said, I don’t think the management of the paper does a stellar job. I don’t think they follow up enough on stories they have published on local happenings. They take up too much space with journalistic perp walks. They cannot keep reporters around long enough to become very familiar with local issues. Their articles often seem to be missing or misstate important information that would make the articles more clear.

George Rebane

D & t - Yes, Jo Ann is on the Union's editorial board which consists of 12 members of which 1.5 are conservatives (she's the 1.0 part), and the rest are solid liberals. Editorially The Union leans left politically, and that is their prerogative as a private business. Nevertheless, I as a conservetarian am grateful for our community having a daily newspaper, regardless of its political coloration. Even though I often don't agree with Brian Hamilton and Don Rogers, I like and respect them as people and businessmen. In today's world print media are hurting because it's only a fraction of the older population that really still enjoys holding pulp with the written word in their hands.

Bill Tozer

@11:02 am

Happened to notice JoAnne got raked over the coals (by the same usual suspects) for suggesting a simple “get America back to work” theme on Hits&Misses...in the Union. At what point, second wave of not, to we shoot ourselves in the foot and needlessly self- destruct our country, economy, and Q of L??

One column (that was posted recently?) had a line in it that said [the way the Left frames the argument] is we are left with the choice of killing grandma or worrying about our 401Ks.

Dr. Rebane. Please tell your lovely bride that I am taking her advice from a column last summer and hanging my clothes right now to dry on a cable I strung up between a tree and the house. Smells so fresh and sunshine is the best disinfectant. Thank you.

Gregory

So, who is the half-righty on theunion's ed board?

George Rebane

Gregory 106pm - Prudence and preserving peace dictate sealed lips on this matter. Although my spy on the board is willing, if pressed, to increase the gentleman's conservative rating to 0.75.

BillT 1211pm - Thank you for the kind words, Jo Ann has seen and appreciates your comment.

scenes

"we are left with the choice of killing grandma or worrying about our 401Ks."

Oh well, another one of those false choices, assuming that CCP-19 heavily disfavors the elderly.

You could easily invent a public policy that sez, 'everyone over 60 has to stay home', 'we'll send you a check for the trouble'. In an era where absolutely positively everyone has to be equal, no go.

It's sort of like arresting surfers for being in public. If a bunch of people in a New York tenement have to stay indoors, by gawd you have to.

Maybe it's just a matter of marketing. If you could make face masks with big ol' Nike logos and basketball player ads, the inner-city ne'er do wells might be persuaded to wear them.

scenes

lol. Seriously, you gotta love this place.

https://activenorcal.com/california-unanimously-approves-fishing-ban-in-rural-counties-due-to-coronavirus

George Rebane

scenes 149pm - As I mentioned in today's update, these people have no capacity for nuance. Their simplified ideology allows interpretation only in highly granular textures, this has been a constant over the life of RR. And when you point this out, the inevitable response is their departure into the sound of silence.

Bill Tozer

Re: reopening.

Once size definitely does not fit all. What, 20 states have only about 340 positive test results, Wyoming finally got its first death. Even in CA, not all counties are being slammed or even enough cases to write home about. Half the States are not anywhere close to a normal flu season (hospitalizations due to the Chinese lab leak).

A old friend stopped by the other day. He had the virus, waited for his first test since (negative afterwards, and is waiting for another test in a few days (14 days apart) so he can work or volunteer anywhere he chooses. With a clean bill of health, he has his choice of jobs. :)

I won’t indulge anymore to protect her privacy, but she did say if you got it, you will know it. Couldn’t breathe, felt like his/her lungs were crystallized, and the thing that helped the most was a simple inhaler given her by the doc. He/she also said the same thing I heard from others; “This was early on, before the virus news really hit.” Might be the first case in E. Nevada County? If not, one of the first cases. Another friend stayed in bed a week thinking she had the flu. Could have been. Again, early on. I told both on different occasions to stand back and don’t get too close cause you don’t want my murder on their heads. Or maybe they do. Hmmmm. :)

Wow, this is way off topic. Wait, progressives suck. There, back on topic.

My friend from Steve’s next of the woods blamed all the Bay Area fools driving up I-80 going to Tahoe for spreading the virus. I told him they should go back to Berkeley, those stinky-asses.

Bill Tozer

re: CNN. Don't listen to Tom Cotton. He is a conspiracy nut!

https://www.bucksexton.com/content/2020-04-17-sen-cotton-coronavirus-is-the-most-deadly-cover-up-in-history-of-mankind/

Paul Emery

George

So Trump is supporting the giveaway of over 3 trillion dollars that will make this years deficit over 4 Trillion bucks. Where is the Tea Party? Oh yeah, they are all Trump supporters. What hypocrites. Where do you stand on this George?

Less tweet more action

Trump the "liberator" is going to free you all from the oppression of the virus. Go free my people.. go out there and risk. your lives for my portfolio.. "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” “LIBERATE VIRGINIA,” trump said in a tweet. Liberate yourselves from those Democrat governors who are trying to save your lives but are keeping the economy down.

"Less talk...more action" trump demanded of Gov. Cuomo in an example of the pot calling the kettle black.
“The States have to step up their TESTING!” trump said as he doled out tests to those who kiss his ass but not to democrat controlled states most of which, like CA, are way ahead of the virus curve anyway because they dismissed trump's press briefings as bullshit.

Protesters have taken to the streets in Ohio, Texas, North Carolina, Kentucky, Virginia and Michigan, to demand the right to get infected in order to restart trumps stock portfolio.
Hebert Dunsmir of Charlottesville said that, " I would rather dies a horrible death from the virus than see trump lose money. Maybe since he fired all those nasty bean counters who would oversee the bailout, he can shuffle some bailout money his own way, like the real estate depreciation give away on page 203 of the stimulus package."

And so it goes.

Walt

No making Emery happy. I'm sure your all for everyone fending for themselves. No help from gov. Let the bodies pile up Emery.
So your in favor of the swamp queen staying home and keeping the House of Reps. closed. Not passing ANY relief aid.
Now how do you thin Main St. will vote come election day Emery?

George Rebane

PaulE 331pm - If the only two alternatives were govt spending to soften the C19 blow, and no spending whatever, then I'm for the spending to help tide over the economy and people. What I'm not for is the padding of the C19 aid funds with Democrat vote buying wish list of items that they could never get through Congress during normal times - that's sleaze of the highest order.

Recall my axiom here - if the US economy tanks, then the resulting death and misery will be more than any short-term C19 hit that quickly burns through our population. However, if we are 'flattening the curve' through public policies that also has the economy dying on the vine, then we need to prop it up so that people will jobs to go back to when it's over. And I am on record here, we should take the risks (a la Sweden) to get back to work.
https://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2020/03/your-money-or-your-life.html

BTW, not that you and yours could ever parse it, the Tea Party people are NOT hypocrites for blindly ALWAYS opposing any deficit spending. As with the rest of life, deficit spending is not simply a YES/NO tenet; it's more like a YES/DEPENDS/NO thing.

Not that I expect an answer, but I'll ask it anyway - Paul, what's your stand on the C19 deficit spending that Congress has pushed through, and considers adding to?

George Rebane

Less Tweet 412pm - Alright, we have a new sackhead in residence here. Do you have anything substantive to back up your bullshit allegations and assertions? Or are you here to exhibit your TDS and light thinking?

Gregory

gr 501

Les Tweetie sounds like Mary Wanna smells like Keachie.

No, he will never post anything of substance. A vandal, he's here to smear crap wherever he wants.

Les Tweet more bullcrap

George, in an example of the pot calling the kettle black: "Do you have anything substantive to back up your bullshit allegations and assertions.. Or are you here to exhibit your ... light thinking?"

George Rebane

re LesTweet 519pm - Well, that explains his deficit; he wouldn't recognize a substantive argument even if ... .

Gregory

gr 457pm

Let me post this musical interlude as a stand in for Punch's quiet pouting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtMV44yoXZ0

Gregory

Remind me again, George... calling the virus C19 and losing any advantage of language making it clear where the virus came from... SARS... helps you, how?

The Director-General of the WHO announced the made up COVID-19 name on February 11, knowing full well the virology taxonomists had pegged it as SARS-CoV-2 days earlier... in order to blunt what the WHO knew would be coming.

That said... how much of the US debt incurred to date is held by China?

Lester Tweet

You people never post anything of substance anyway.. just pseudo-science and right wing propaganda.. so what is the difference between what you post and satire? If you can insult the public by buying in to all the bull crap that comes out of trump's mouth then I can insult your lack of rational judgement with the truth.

Bill Tozer

Lol. What did I miss? Ah, just the same ole same ole mental midgets coming over here to deposit their daily constitutionals. Clean up on Aisle Six.

What some fail to grasp is government (State and Federal) directly caused the shut down of the economy. Millions thrown out of work due to government’s actions. Businesses, large and small, retail and manufacturing closed by our government. This economic strangulation of people’s livelihood is directly caused by government action, not by a fire, flood, hurricane, or whatever one’s imagination can think of.

Because government ordered and caused this upheaval to our great American robust economy, I have no problem with the same government trying to lessen the pain and misery with trillions of dollars appropriated via Congress.

I suppose some were going to cry bloody murder if the same trillions they grip about did not include 75 million for NPR and 25 million for the Kennedy Center. Heck, they are already shrieking to the heavens that the Republicans and “Tea Party hypocrites“ removed 8 billion smackers from the Coronavirus Relief Bills earmarked to pay off ALL of the USPS’s debts and obligations. Your can hear the Addicted to Outrage’s wailing and gnashing of teeth about the post office from here. What does NPR or the Post Office have to do with the Kung Flu??

Oh, BTW. Thank you very much ye hard working taxpayers for my $1,200 check that arrived exactly on time. Po folk like me went to the head of the line. We are the most vulnerable. I might just make a call and buy a couple more shares of BlackRock.. Thank you kindly, much appreciated

Bill Tozer

I look at the trillions of Yankee dollars earmarked for SARS The Sequel like the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor. We did not cause it, but we have to respond.

fish

Posted by: Lester Tweet | 17 April 2020 at 06:26 PM


Man.....I go away for a day and Keachie decides to have “Personality Jamboree” day.

Bill Tozer

re: update, The Great Invisible World for Progressives....good place for Daily Quotes

For the record: “[China] was going systematically around the world vacuuming up all of the personal protective equipment that people in America … would need to defend themselves.” —Trump economic advisor Peter Navarro

Political futures: “The Paycheck Protection Program ran out of money … because Democrats, led by Nancy Pelosi, blocked the necessary $250 billion replenishment for the program that Congressional Republicans tried to deliver. Now ‘Nancy Antoinette’ has to explain to America why she chose to show off her luxury refrigerators and … ice cream collection from her chateau in San Francisco instead of funding the Paycheck Protection Program which has saved millions of jobs all across the country.” —Republican National Committee

Never let a crisis go to waste: “Coronavirus gives us an opportunity to revamp our electoral system so that it permanently becomes more inclusive and becomes easier for the American people to access. It would be foolhardy to take these pro-democracy measures off the table after we get on the other side of the virus. These are changes that we should make permanent because it will enhance our democracy.” —Eric Holder

Friendly fire: “I think it’s legitimate to talk about these things. And if we want, if we again want to have integrity, you can’t say both believe women, support all of this, until it inconveniences you, until it inconveniences us.” —Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Joe Biden (That being the case, wandering minds want to know: Would she say the same thing if the allegation was against Bernie?)

Double standards: “Skepticism about accusations only when they are made against someone with whom we are ideologically aligned is not high-minded — it is intellectually dishonest. And yet. Reflexive acceptance of any and all allegations of sexual misconduct against any man is not staunch feminism — it is dangerous credulity that risks doing terrible injustice to the accused. #BelieveAllWomen was a dumb hashtag and a dumber approach to inevitably complex, fact-bound situations.” —The Washington Post’s Ruth Marcus (“Marcus was an avid defender of Dr. Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings, even going so far as to suggest that Kavanaugh did not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Ultimately, Marcus decides that the #BelieveAllWomen movement is now problematic because the movement’s primary target is, of course, an ally and not an opponent.” —Emily Zanotti)

Oxymoron for the ages: “We stopped elective surgeries here in Michigan, and some people have tried to say that that type of a procedure [abortion] is considered the same, and that’s ridiculous. You know, a woman’s healthcare, her whole future, her ability to decide if and when she starts a family is not an election, it is a fundamental to her life. It is life-sustaining, and it’s something that government should not be getting in the middle of.” —Michigan Democrat Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, who has no problem inserting the government almost everywhere else

Braying jackass: “What bothers me, what bothers me so much, is the president of the United States doesn’t take responsibility. … Nothing is his fault. Nothing is his responsibility.” —Joe Biden

Village idiot: “Last month was the first March without a school shooting in the United States since 2002. It took all schools to be closed and everyone forced to be inside because of a pandemic, but we finally did it.” —Chelsea Handler

And last… “The coronavirus epidemic is proof of the Founders’ wisdom. Whatever one thinks about how different states have reacted, the decentralized approach is preferable to letting any single politician in Washington, D.C., Republican or Democrat, dictate the terms by which 330 million people approach an unprecedented crisis.” —Timothy Sandefur

Scott O

Less-Tar Tweet 6:26 - "If you can insult the public by buying in to all the bull crap that comes out of trump's mouth then I can insult your lack of rational judgement with the truth."
That's a big 'if', Sparky.
The problem is that I've asked on numerous occasions for any one of you lefties to provide any evidence that we conservatives "buy in to all the bull crap" from Trump. Because we don't.
And we don't buy your BS either.
Any day you lefties want to provide some back up for your BS, we'll be all ears.
Instead, you just change your secret identity and change the subject.
As the election nears, the left must be starting to really squirm knowing that voting for the only person with any chance to knock off Trump is actually worse than Trump.
Enjoy!

Bill Tozet

re: Autocracy rising. Ick a quote, any quote.

‘Pandemic Panic Has Magnified The Worst Impulses Of The Power-Hungry Elite’

This pandemic has exposed the motives of our self-appointed betters in D.C. and the media, pushing anti-American policies to give themselves more power

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/17/pandemic-panic-has-magnified-the-worst-impulses-of-the-power-hungry-elite/

L

Bill @ 11:06 Great article, should be required reading for all, particularly the RR readers on the left who may wonder how the rest of us see things.

scenes

I did like this bit from GeorgeR's linked article on the Canadian healthcare system.

"Per capita, Canada has one-third as many ICU beds as the U.S. and about the same number as ravaged Italy. In some provinces, including Alberta and British Columbia, ICU beds number fewer per capita than Iran."

You know, I'm perfectly happy to think about different ways to architect a healthcare system, but for God's sake I'm bored with people waxing rhapsodic about how much better it is somewhere else (especially Denmark). Usually it seems to be mixed in with handwaving about 'public healthcare systems' as if all these countries have the same set up.

George Rebane

The big govt central planner & control Dems are evil to begin with, and now they see an opportunity to create a socio-economic environment for which they have been lusting for decades - a police state with neighbor watching and reporting on neighbor. In the People's Democratic Republic of Germany, the Stasi employed one out of three East German civilians as their eyes and ears. This is our Left's goal to create a controlled and compliant citizenry in which Agenda 2020 can be implemented with minimum resistance. But first and foremost, they have to get our guns.

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