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11 July 2020

Comments

L

I have this situation in my near neighborhood. My sister-in-law married a black man and their daughter seemingly without thought adopted her black persona and that was that. She has since grown up, married and has four kids, all of whom identify as black and confine their circle of acquaintances to other 'blacks.' I think you are correct: the advantages of being a victim outweigh any possible privilege available as a 'white'.

Steven Frisch

"Assigning the black label to everyone with even a tinge of Negroid heritage makes it seem as if such ancestry is a blight."

"And why is it asymmetric? Why is not a mostly Negro person with some white or Asian ancestry not then labeled ‘European-American’ or ‘Asian-American’, or simply ‘white’ or ‘Asian’? Why does every mixed-race person’s identity have to immediately revert to ‘black’ or ‘African-American’ when they are visibly a mulatto or of some other mixed-race ancestry?"

That may be the most tone deaf and ahistorical question I have every seen here.

The answer is simple; because white legal structures, society and culture defined anyone in the United States with even a hint of black blood as black.

In short we defined as black (African-American) any person with ANY black blood under the "one-drop rule," which meant that a single drop of "black blood" makes a person a black. This rule was enforced at first across the United States and later in the slave states under a number of different names including the "one black ancestor rule," or the "traceable amount rule." This definition emerged from the American South to become the nation's definition, generally accepted by whites and blacks. These rules were repeatedly upheld in courts, including the SCOTUS.

Blacks had no other choice.

And because they had no other choice, first under slavery then Jim Crow, they lost voting rights, many property rights, rights to equal access to education and housing, and in some cases inheritance rights.

So, white supremacist government created this segregated identity. And like many segregated and /or persecuted groups, Blacks created their own American culture, this became a cultural identity for a combination of self defense and self improvement.

I would argue that historically African American culture is actually more "American" than most European American cultural identities since it predated most European settlement by anyone but the British, Dutch and Spanish.


fish

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 12 July 2020 at 01:42 PM

I would argue that historically African American culture is actually more "American" than most European American cultural identities since it predated most European settlement by anyone but the British, Dutch and Spanish.


....and as usual......you would argue unconvincingly.

George Rebane

StevenF 142pm - Again you miss the point. Your historical citations don't explain away today's labeling - that was then, this is now. The big question remains is why the blacks condone and allow the Democrats to promote the use of such labeling to keep them on the plantation. And you Steve are among the leadership of those who have so imposed on our mixed-race Americans, and with your political cohorts continue to do so today. You leftists and hard-core collectivists would be dead at the ballot box if you ever lose the 'black vote'.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: fish | 12 July 2020 at 01:53 PM

Yeah, on what basis would my argument be unconvincing Fish?

In 1790 about 20% of the official population of the 13 colonies was Black; a larger number by race than almost any specific ethnic or national identity group in the US. In the first census the Black population was 757,000 people (counted at 3/5th BTW; and historians agree that black population was significantly undercounted due to their status as "property" driving state taxation); British and Ulster Scot-Irish (which was essentially British) was 2,400,000. The next closest national identity was German at 270,000. (Spanish was insignificant in the first census since Spanish colonial regions were not yet a part of the US)

I would say that is a pretty convincing case that Black culture in the US predated just about any other group.

Your constant knee jerk responses really just show what an idiot you are.

fish

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 12 July 2020 at 02:21 PM


Your constant knee jerk responses really just show what an idiot you are.


Idiot...maybe. Knee jerk.....never!

It just really seems to upset you when people don't immediately take your various pronouncements as gospel.

fish

.....Atlanta huh?



9-year-old shot 4 times while filming TIKTOK videos....



Probably a bunch of Crabb's Boogaloo Bois.....

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/year-old-shot-times-east-atlanta-was-filming-tiktok-videos-mother-says/cUpbKuZ7TsJwBcxKbFldIP/

Todd Juvinall

Reading Frisch about race cracks me up. He has never met a black person let alone hired one or married one. Never dated one either. So he gets his opinions from Al Ahrpton etal and to him that makes him an expert on race. People like me that lived and worked and hired and fired and promoted people that were a different color get lectured by the likes of Frisch which is just too funny. Frisich has no experience in the real world except maybe for a failing restaurant and liens. I think he should stick to those things he actually knows best and leave we how are not as racists talone.

fish

Interesting....


DEFUND HOLLYWOOD: Hollywood’s identity crisis: Actors, writers and producers warn of ‘reverse racism’ in the film industry which has created a ‘toxic’ climate for anyone who is a white, middle-age man.


It always starts in Hollywood......I wonder when the pale & doughy executives of high country non-profits will be shown the door .... for justice ...of course?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8513727/Actors-writers-producers-warn-reverse-racism-film-industry.html

The Estonian Fox

Steven Frisch @ 1:42PM-
In today's world, a male-bodied human can identify as female, even though there is no scientific basis for doing so. One has to consider that there is some benefit to spit in the face of science so blatantly. And so many people agree with him. STEM is not in those persons' vocabulary. After all, the 'S' stands for SCIENCE, not PSEUDOscience.

So if gender can be abandoned at will, so too can historical black-identifying characteristics be abandoned at will if they want. Since they don't want, there must be an advantage to identify as black. Pres. Obama's only shared commonality with American-born descendants of black Africans is that his daddy abandoned him when he was only two. And there is a good chance that his daddy's ancestors (Arabs/Muslims) were slave owners & traders, taking black Africans from eastern Africa to the Middle East.

Since Obama's white grandparents raised him from 10 years old, he abandoned the 'white' label that he could have readily adopted. Gender is fluid; race is fluid.

Scott O

Steven F 2:21 - "I would say that is a pretty convincing case that Black culture in the US predated just about any other group."
If you conveniently throw out the white Spanish. They were here, despite Frisch's denial.
So - the Africans predate the Asians and the meso-Americans.
For a while.
That's always the way the left loves to work it.
Carefully set markers in time - before and after don't count for some reason.
If we are going back to the 'one drop of blood' rule (we all know about that, Frisch) then the reparations game is thrown wide open.
And this is a sick game. It has very little to do with national heritage or skin color. It's the victim-hood hustle. And it has proven to be very profitable for those who play.

Steven Frisch

"Again you miss the point. Your historical citations don't explain away today's labeling - that was then, this is now. The big question remains is why the blacks condone and allow the Democrats to promote the use of such labeling to keep them on the plantation. And you Steve are among the leadership of those who have so imposed on our mixed-race Americans, and with your political cohorts continue to do so today. You leftists and hard-core collectivists would be dead at the ballot box if you ever lose the 'black vote'."

Posted by: George Rebane | 12 July 2020 at 02:07 PM
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

The very point that you describe today's black cultural identity as "labeling" says all that needs to be said.

A cultural identity is not about how others see members of a group it is about how the members of the group see and define themselves.
It is the group members self-conception and self-perception not the external society's.

Blacks in America define themselves as "African-Americans" because their fellow citizens segregated them, disempowered them, and oppressed them; and in that segregation and oppression they developed their own perceptions of religion, unique nomenclature, music, art, literature, cuisine, fashion, and even holidays and observances.

Blacks identify as blacks by choice because they have a unique experience. The very point of bringing up the fact that blacks in America were the second largest "group" at the founding was to state, in essence, being black is more historically "American" than being just about anything else in our history.

The very use of the "democrats keeping blacks on the plantation" meme is a racist trope. It presupposes that blacks cannot decide for themselves what policies, laws, changes, programs, or opportunities they seek to pursue.

https://medium.com/@SamMcKenzieJr/my-god-if-i-hear-democratic-plantation-one-more-time-41842277249b

Todd Juvinall

More mumbo-jumbo from Frisch. Maybe a trip to UNCLE TOM.com by Larry Elder a very smart man who is black can straighten out your crooked thoughts Bubba. Give it a try. Then report back.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Scott O | 12 July 2020 at 05:32 PM

Once again Scott is bringing a knife to a gunfight. I did not ignore or miss the Spanish influence Sherlock....The case being made was about the US in 1780-1790.


"I would argue that historically African American culture is actually more "American" than most European American cultural identities since it predated most European settlement by anyone but the British, Dutch and Spanish."--Frisch

"In 1790 about 20% of the official population of the 13 colonies was Black; a larger number by race than almost any specific ethnic or national identity group in the US. In the first census the Black population was 757,000 people (counted at 3/5th BTW; and historians agree that black population was significantly undercounted due to their status as "property" driving state taxation); British and Ulster Scot-Irish (which was essentially British) was 2,400,000. The next closest national identity was German at 270,000. (Spanish was insignificant in the first census since Spanish colonial regions were not yet a part of the US)"

Don Bessee

Says the guy who never shared a pizza with a black guy or lady you didn't know @540. LOL!

;-)

Gregory

Hey, Steve... what's the story behind your shrinking staff count?

I've not heard slaves in the US being referred to as a unified cultural block before, either before or after Emancipation. Different languages, different cultures, put together by force thanks to an effort by African and white Euro slavers working together.

They were and are individuals.

And regarding the "trope" of the Democratic Party Plantation, we have this gem from this past April...
https://www.newsweek.com/i-have-left-plantation-georgia-democratic-representative-resigns-after-being-attacked-his-1499450


George Rebane

re Frisch 540pm - Mr Frisch would be hard put to give cogent definition of 'racism' or 'racist', but that does not hinder his or other leftists' use of the pejorative. (BTW, you can see my understanding and use of it in these pages should you care to look it up.)

"It presupposes that blacks cannot decide for themselves what policies, laws, changes, programs, or opportunities they seek to pursue."

Again the man totally misses the point. The 'it' that is presupposed is not that blacks cannot decide, but it is that the Democrats firmly propose through their destructive racist policies that the blacks cannot decide (and if they could, they should not be allowed to - e.g. "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black."). I have a 13-year archive here in which is documented my strong opinion that African-Americans can indeed decide what is best for them, no matter your ignorance of that record. All Mr Frisch can do is accuse ex cathedra with no substantive back-up.

Scott O

Frisch - "The case being made was about the US in 1780-1790."
Yes - I pointed that out.
You need to fabricate a tiny sliver in time to make your case.
The rest of us are looking at the whole of history. Just because the Spaniards didn't get counted in the census back then hardly precludes them from their contribution to 'American' culture.
If you want to limit your entire argument to only ten years you can make any case you want.
Lets deal with reality, Steve.
My Bowie knife beats your cork pop-gun.
And the reality is the race hustle scam being perpetrated by the left.
If you'd like to discuss the topic George has raised, then bring it on.
For example - Why is Obama considered 'black' but George Zimmerman considered 'white'?

Bill Tozer

We have now a Black National Anthem and a "White" National Anthem. How do you like that for segregation? Nothing like unity...

BTW, in the African American community, Kamala Harris was frowned upon for her true ethnicity...like she is a Black American, but not an African America. "She's really not one of us", and she had to prove herself suitable to the Black Leadership and power brokers. They didn't take kindly to her, being black but not a Africian-American. They even grilled the lady on why did she marry a white man, roflmao. Guess she did not have the right stuff. Hey, the Africian-American self appointed leaders made an issue out of Kamala's heritage,
not me. No endorsement for you, ya dirty copper.

There are blacks and there a blacks. There are gospel singing Blacks and there are Jeramiah Wright/Minister Louis Farahkan blacks. There are blacks without a drop of slave blood in them (Barry Obama) and there a Indian-Jamacian blacks.

Scott O

Gregory 6:06 - re the link - ""I'm sick and tired of me and my family being attacked and harassed by the Democrat Party for putting my country before my party. I take pride in being an independent thinker," the Georgia politician said."

Uh oh! - no reparations for his family.

fish

Posted by: Gregory | 12 July 2020 at 06:06 PM


I've not heard slaves in the US being referred to as a unified cultural block before, either before or after Emancipation. Different languages, different cultures, put together by force thanks to an effort by African and white Euro slavers working together.

They were and are individuals.


.......and family’s, and extended family’s etc. but not as you say, a unified cultural block. Whatever the impact it/they (black culture(s)of that time) had it was diffuse and “at the fringes” in its effect on the larger white, really just the culture of the time. Reason.com had a great article about 5 years ago that I absolutely can’t find now addressing this very issue.

Steve is trying to 1619 Project another argument.

Barry Pruett

Steve. That was over 200 years ago. Since then we have had the Emancipation Proclamation, the Slavery Amendments, and countless civil rights acts. In the present, most Americans don’t care about skin color, but it certainly is helpful to win elections. 😉

Scott O

This will all stop once the Dems win all the elections:
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/07/13/1-year-old-boy-shot-to-death-outside-brooklyn-playground/
#BlackLivesDon'tActuallyMatter !
Da Mayor:
"“We’ve got to take resolve out of every situation like this. We can never give up,” he said. “We can never give up on our children, we can never give up on our families, we can never give up on our neighborhoods – no matter how tough it seems.”"
Yep - no matter how many dead black bodies pile up, we ain't gonna change how we do business.
Just wait til we hand out the reparation checks!
It's all good.

Gregory

"In the first census the Black population was 757,000 people (counted at 3/5th BTW; and historians agree that black population was significantly undercounted due to their status as "property" driving state taxation)"
-Frisch 221pm

Ummm... no, Steve. The 1790 census count of slaves in the 13 colonies was 694,280 and the count was 1:1. Persons, not 3/5ths persons... the only place there'd be a scaling of the slave count would have been when determining the number of seats in the Congress for slaver states. I'm not sure where you got the 757,000 number besides picking it from your own ass.

If you add the 59,150 count of other than white free persons, you get 753,430 but that would be a misuse of that census category, not to mention still short of your claims.

scenes

BarryP "Steve. That was over 200 years ago. Since then we have had the Emancipation Proclamation,..."

Don't be such a buzz kill. He genuinely gets pleasure from the outrage.

https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1558/57/1558572124607.png

L

Gregory @ 12:50- you seem to be up on it and I'm too lazy to look it up, but exactly who were the 59.150 other than free white persons? If freed slaves, it seems a lot, but certainly within reason; if Amerinds, the number seems ridiculously small (although also possible). And did they count persons in the 'western reserves" or only those east of the Appalachians? Interesting subject...

Hewrman G.

Interesting how all of the circle pile on with their insults and bullshit and seem incapable of understanding the issues at hand from any perspective other than their own misguided world view and do not belong to the two-thirds of Americans who think trump is totally blowing up and incapable of running a business let alone a country. It is mob rule, but not the 'blue mob' slogan you folks often use when describing political opponents. It's the mob like in the Al Capone mob. Hey just lie for me and I will get you off the hook.. fuck the rule of law it means nothing along with the Constitution. kind of mob... The trump mob. How stupid can you get before you realize what is really going on? Dunning-Kruger..

Gregory

"L", my expectation is that if someone didn't get counted as a white male or a white female, and they were free, they'd be added and become one of the 59,150.

I'd be guessing (I also be too lazy to inquire further) but I suspect there would be emancipated African slaves, Africans who came here of their own free will, native tribal Americans, Asians (north, south, east and west) and perhaps even real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri (in disguise, of course).

Don Bessee

I may have missed it but what about indentured European surfs? How did they count them?

;-)

Gregory

I didn't know about indentured surfs. Perhaps you were thinking of indentured Smurfs?

Indentured servants weren't property under the law.

Don Bessee

LOL! Serfs. Ya bro lets see if the serfs rockin'.

Well the ones with a year limit were way better off than the ones who had to buy out.

;-)

Scott O

This makes it pretty clear:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/african-american-history-museum-publishes-graphic-linking-rational-linear-thinking-nuclear-family-to-white-culture/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=top-bar-latest&utm_term=fifth
"The National Museum of African American History and Culture has published a graphic on its website that suggests concepts such as “rational linear thinking,” the “nuclear family,” and an emphasis on “hard work” are specific to “white culture.”
I'm well aware that these beliefs are not shared by millions of people of the African diaspora but this crap is getting a legitimacy it doesn't deserve.
It's pretty clear now that there is a concerted left-wing effort to totally F-up American blacks.
And the good folks waving the warning signs are called racists and worse.
The continuing sick joke is that the folks that decry 'normative white behavior' all love to enjoy the benefits of that sort of thinking and behavior.
'Cultural Appropriation'?
Let's make a bargain - I won't grow dreads and you can throw away all electronic devices and live in a mud hut.
Deal?

scenes


Gotta love the WokePo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/that-sound-youre-hearing-is-classical-musics-long-overdue-reckoning-with-racism/2020/07/15/1b883e76-c49c-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html

Is it just me imagining it, or don't orchestras use blind auditions? It sounds like they have about the most bias-free hiring practices of any business.

I expect that star singers (also mentioned in the article) are chosen to fill the seats with butts.

scenes

moi: "Is it just me imagining it, or don't orchestras use blind auditions? "

Hah. Just like clockwork. Predictable as all get-out.

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-auditions-orchestras-race.html

scenes

clickable link

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-auditions-orchestras-race.html

Scott O

scenes 7:50 - Very predictable. And after they make sure the racial make up of the orchestra is properly met, they'll set to work on the audience.
And then the NYTs will write articles wondering why the classical music scene fell apart to ruin.
I can hardly wait for the PGA to get 'woke'.

fish

Posted by: scenes | 17 July 2020 at 07:50 AM


Shit......if they were all black, or all Chinese, or all Amerindian I could probably put aside my Murderous Racism™ to enjoy the music!


Welcome to Bean Counter World!


Perhaps Mr. Frisch will grace us with his presence and whitesplain why mandatory population percentages are such an unalloyed good!

scenes

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/07/17/seattle-city-council-member-suggests-firing-white-officers-in-massive-reduction-of-police-department/

fish

Posted by: scenes | 17 July 2020 at 08:32 AM


Always good to be in a position to divvy up the spoils.........and let the rabble watch while you do!


"This of course would be even more egregious since Herbold wants to fire white officers due to their race alone. They would not be accused of any wrongdoing or failure. The problem is their race.

It is notable that is not an action that is part of or in furtherance of a valid affirmative action plans ordered by a court or approved by a federal agency. See United Steelworkers of America v. Weber (1979) and Johnson v. Transportation Agency (1987). In Ricci v. DeStefano (2009), the Supreme Court ruled against the city of New Haven after a group of white firefighters and a hispanic firefighter challenged the refusal to certify the results of promotion exams in order to promote black firefighters who performed less well. The Court held that the City’s refusal to certify the test was unlawful discrimination under Title VII. If found that “race-based action like the City’s in this case is impermissible under Title VII unless the employer can demonstrate a strong basis in evidence that, had it not taken the action, it would have been liable under the disparate-impact statute.”

Herbold would not only refuse to promote on the basis of race but would fire officers on that basis. No test. Just a pure racially discriminatory program of terminations. Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1 (2007), Chief Justice John Roberts once declared “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” That is clearly not the plan of Herbold and any of her colleagues who want to fire officers based on their race."


Oh well.....laboratories of democracy....and all that I suppose! Still have to wonder when this notion will start to trickle down to local non-profits of a "Business" and environmental bent?

Bill Tozer

Ah, just let Liberal Supremacists and White punks on dope tell us who the real Blacks are.

https://www.facebook.com/203805062990264/posts/3952506358120097/

scenes

Luckily, Cisco knows exactly how to have a 'conversation' with it's employees.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cisco-employees-fired-racist-comments-black-lives-matter-2020-7

scenes

Oh well, what could go wrong?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/must-read-body-cam-transcript-tells-different-story-death-george-floyd/

https://www.startribune.com/read-the-transcript-of-thomas-lane-s-body-camera-footage/571678791/

Check out page 12.

Bill Tozer

‘REPORT: Sage Steele Iced Out Of Race Special After ESPN Colleagues Complain Not ‘Black Enough.’ Here’s Her Response.’

https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-sage-steele-iced-out-of-race-special-after-espn-colleagues-complain-not-black-enough-heres-her-response


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