« Scattershots – 14sep20 (updated 15sep20) | Main | Democrat 2020 Platform – The Disaster Revealed »

15 September 2020

Comments

Ben Emery

George,
How can a guy who thinks so highly of his own intelligence be so stupid.

The only representation of the left in America are the millions of people in the streets for BLM, Environmental Justice, Stopping Fossil Fuel Pipelines, Occupy Wall St a.k.a. tax the living shit out of unearned income with HFT, Ending Illegal Wars, Ending Biotech/ Green Revolution, Climate Change, 6th Mass Extinction, Voter Suppression, etc...

Please show me anything the Democratic Party has done other than pander and spew out rhetoric that has addressed any of these issues seriously?

How do you take yourself serious?

Ben Emery

To think either the Democratic or Republican Party actually make the decisions of our government, which is only supposed to be done by our consent by the way is ridiculous.

The fact with the entire country going down in the shitter and the two major parties put forward a silver spooned below average intelligence bigoted bully in Donald Trump and 5 decade DC Beltway insider who appears to be in cognitive decline who votes for all illegal invasions, supports financial sector, biotech, part of the '96 Crime Bill, exempting student loans from bankruptcy, supports fossil fuels, and on and on it goes.

America is screaming at the top of our lungs we want representation not plutocracy or oligarchy.

Capitalism on global scale has failed miserably and we in the middle of Climate Change and 6th Mass Extinction. It is eating itself up just as we were told over 150 years ago.

The world is burning, literally, and you're playing a fiddle from your disgusting career pretending there is no connection.

George Rebane

BenE 901am - I'm doing the best I can with what I've got Ben. Never claimed to be the brightest bulb on the tree, but I am curious as to what about my career you find so disgusting. (I assume you did put some thought into choosing that descriptive.)

scenes

"but I am curious as to what about my career you find so disgusting."

Perhaps it was the spellchecker acting up and he meant dissolute....wait, that would be me.

My guess is that he has a notion that the country is made up of two groups...The Elite and The People.

The People are made to argue by The Elite in order for The Elite to keep power. If The People just all voted, then we'd have The PeopleElite or something.

It's the kind of thing you run into now and again, I wouldn't pay too much attention.

scenes

...as a side note, I've always been uncomfortable with the idea of scaling up the notion of 'evil'. It seems to me better applied only to individuals.

Mass behavior looks to have it's own rhyme and rhythm and isn't (obviously) just a large version of a singleton.

George Rebane

scenes 1031am - Apparently our readings and life's experience differ somewhat. I am familiar with many organizations whose structure and operational principles were purposely configured to provide institutional embodiments of evil. These organizations demonstrated the truth of this assessment during their lifetimes by taking in thousands of presumably pre-evil people, and turning them into evil individuals.

Ben Emery

George,

You need to tell me since this watered-down hogwash is now what I can find in your life's work. "Naturalized Citizen, Entrepreneur, Professional Engineer, and Systems Scientist formally trained in Physics, Complex Dynamic Systems, and Computer Science.".

Prior you bragged about how your family fleeing Estonia and how you have been a military producing bigoted hate filled killing machine.

I respect your honesty about your bigotry and perceived superiority but oppose your world view at basically every level.


Ben Emery

Scenes,
There are no elites and the people. There are people who have set up a system that keeps people from receiving equitable share of the wealth created. They are thieves and should be held accountable for their injustices. Guillotine seems like a good stick and the carrot would be to give the wealth back to the people who actually created it.

scenes

GeorgeR@10:43AM I see what you are saying here, that organizations and their defacto philosophies can create evil people, so the organization is evil, but I still wish there was a different word. 'Evil' to me implies a sort of inner world felt by an individual, often expressed in causing great harm with little benefit. Using that sort of nudge, I'd say that vandalism is more evil than burglary. Control of course is built into a lot of this.

In the end, perhaps being subjected to the tender ministrations of a freelance sadist vs. one 're-educating' you at the camp is perhaps a difference that makes no difference. Year Zero may yet give us the chance to judge the finer gradiations in all this.

Ben E.: "you have been a military producing bigoted hate filled killing machine. "

ooh, I bet you say that to all the girls.

George Rebane

BenE 1107am - Ben, you sure are one piece of work - very remarkable. You're the first person ever to look at my biography as a refugee and call it "bragging". BTW, a more complete bio is available on this website, and in the 'My Story' category of RR. Lots more there for you to hate.

scenes

BenE: "There are no elites and the people. There are people who have set up a system that keeps people from receiving equitable share of the wealth created. "

lol. That's sure a long way to say 'elites'.

OK, how about

1) people-who-have-set-up-a-system-that-keeps-people-from-receiving-equitable-share-of-the-wealth-created
2) people-who-are-kept-from-receiving-equitable-share-of-the-wealth-created-by-people

I'll call them The Elite, and The People for short, although you are welcome to use an acronym like PWHSUASTKPFRESOTWC and PWAKFRESOTWCBP.

Hie thee to a people-who-are-kept-from-receiving-equitable-share-of-the-wealth-created-by-people committee and become the leader. Lots of heads need nipping off and there's real profit opportunities available in those gigs. Keep in mind that the time in office tends to be depressingly short.

Ben Emery

Scenes,

Elite- a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.

superior at stealing the wealth of others, if that is what you meant by elite, then we agree.

scenes

Let's simplify that down to a power relationship. You appear to be saying that there's a (probably) small monolithic group of powerful people and a large monolithic group of unpowerful people who need to unify...and, well...that's it. Just trying to be on the same page and all.

Ben Emery

George,
You and I have conversed about your time in Estonia, you were what 5 years old. Yet, somehow you don't have any connection towards those children being locked in cages now. The native children being forced into Christian schools where they were not allow to speak their own language or practice their culture. Or how our "free trade" has promoted inequality to the point rural people throughout the Americas are migrating to US since their unsubsidized biotech corn cannot compete with prices creating a different type of migration that you seem to label as criminals.

Don't try and act like this is the first conversation about these topics. This is over years of having dialogues with you about, humanity and the natural world.

scenes

GeorgeR: "Ben, you sure are one piece of work - very remarkable. "

oh well, at least he didn't call you a bald military producing bigoted hate filled killing machine. That would be too much.

To Mr. Emery's credit, he's at least trying, in a rather uncouth way, to make some sort of point. It's a step-up from the daily Trump Poll.

Gregory

Ben, how's Nursing school goin'? Emptying bed pans now?

Gregory

"There are people who have set up a system that keeps people from receiving equitable share of the wealth created. They are thieves and should be held accountable for their injustices. Guillotine seems like a good stick and the carrot would be to give the wealth back to the people who actually created it"

Those are fighting words, Br'er Ben, and the Jacobin did not end well.

George Rebane

BenE 1152am - Ben, you aggrandize too much. I've never felt any need to "act like" anything in communicating with you. And all of our exchanges remain archived in these pages, shamelessly accessible to one and all.

I look forward to your assessment of the DNC platform here -
https://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2020/09/democrat-2020-platform-the-disaster-revealed.html

scenes

"Yet, somehow you don't have any connection towards those children being locked in cages now."

Oh jeez, here we go with the Whac-A-Mole, although honestly 'Children in Cages' sounds like a new Netflix blockbuster.

He must mean these cages.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/02/15/biden-finally-admits-he-and-obama-put-kids-in-cages-but-only-to-keep-them-safe-n381547

Scott O

BE 11:10 - Yeah, this is way more fun than the latest cherry-picked poll result.
"There are no elites and the people. There are people who have set up a system that keeps people from receiving equitable share of the wealth created. They are thieves and should be held accountable for their injustices. Guillotine seems like a good stick and the carrot would be to give the wealth back to the people who actually created it."
I'd actually think Ben had some sort of intelligence if he would name these worthies and let us in on when 'the system' was set up. Maybe let us in on the location of where the plan for the 'system' is.
Ben claims he knows all about it. But I think he's just full of hate and wound up with the latest from Mother Jones.
And of course there's that old standard - "equitable share".
Ben would - of course - be in charge of what's 'equitable'.
Funny how the deciders always seem to be the ones in the limousines while the happy workers trudge alongside the road with their 'equitable' share.
Pro tip for Ben - those folks you would like to see bereft of their noggins or their cash probably don't see things the way you do.
And they tend to act in rational ways to retain their body parts and their belongings. History has shown that folks with your ideas tend to be either be dispatched before the revolution, during the revolution or pretty soon afterwards no matter which side prevails.
Look to Castro's attitudes towards the 'true believers' after he took power. There was no place in his govt for anyone with your ideas.

scenes

"Ben would - of course - be in charge of what's 'equitable'."

Plus, real wealth can be measured in something other than money. If you are in charge of an organization that can hijack a commercial firm, like a union boss or .gov apparatchik, the simple power of the position is worth as much as the money. Heck, the union boss sometimes gets to run a thing that's essentially a monopoly.

One angle is the ability to parlay government influence into the ability to make things happen. You have to be quite wealthy to whistle up a helicopter or live in a mansion, but the right level of bureaucrat gets that thrown in with the job title. It's one reason (besides wage differential) that the Soviet Union had such a high GINI score.

Really, it boils down to the difference between natural ecosystems of human behavior, like free enterprise, with a minimum of control systems laid on top (bills of rights and whatnot) vs. active control of the whole she-bang. It's odd to think that a modern American probably has less freedom (and much higher taxes) than a citizen in the Roman Empire, but then top-down control systems have become a lot more common in the West since then.

Gregory

I wonder how folks like Oprah Winfrey would get their kosher cashectomies performed. Mme. Guillotine? Br'er Ben? Oprah is the first black multi-billionaire in North America, if the wiki is to be believed.

Did she get her wealth by screwing others out of their share?

George Rebane

As an aside, does anyone here think that BenE really understands any of this?

Bill Tozer

As an aside, Ben was not his usual nice mannered self today, Rather cantankerous. Or, maybe that polite articulate Ben is long gone. He takes a sabbatical from RR and comes back at full of piss and vinegar. Maybe because he has no viable 3rd Party to rally behind this time around. Left out in the cold. He is turning into an angry old white guy, I tell ya. I have seen it happen before....with regularity. Maybe the Plague put crimp in the barter system. Who knows? Boy, it’s probably been close to a hundred years since they took school children off the reservation and shipped them Back East to Christian Schools and were forbidden to speak in their native tongue. Ben remembers that like it was yesterday.....er.....like it happened today.

Waltons, Waltons, Waltons, Walton Family, Waltons, Waltons. It’s ALL Sam Walton’s fault. He rounded up the unskilled, pointed a shotgun at their backs, and made them apply for a job at Walmart. Kill the Waltons!

I did enjoy Brother Ben’s reference to the Holy Shrine of the Guillotine. Makes sense. Everytime I think of Brother Ben, I think of the French Green Party platform.....now with a guillotine. Nice Frenchie touch. Oh moi.

Bill Tozer

Evil: A direct link from Tom Hayden to the Weather Underground to today in the here and now.

'How The 1960s Riots Foreshadow Today’s Communist Weaponization Of Black Pain'

Many would have us believe that the riots and violence sweeping across America’s cities this year are spontaneous. But history and current evidence tell us otherwise.

"Young, bored, white college students decided to conduct their revolutionary experiment using black people as the trigger."

https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/14/how-the-1960s-riots-foreshadow-todays-communist-weaponization-of-black-pain/

Scott O

scenes 2:07 - "Plus, real wealth can be measured in something other than money."
You got that right. In the 50s in the USSR, the plumbers and electricians had the nicest clothes and were well fed. If you wanted the toilets to flush and the lights to work, you would (if you had any) have to bribe the workers with food, clothing, a radio - whatever - to jump the long waiting line.
By the 70s this elite group included the auto mechanics. There were enough doctors and mid-level stooges who had acquired cars to form a long line of those waiting for parts/repairs to keep their Soviet piles of crap running.
At least there were no billionaires to cause any misery in the workers' paradise.
Ben missed his time and place in history.

Bill Tozer

Scenes @ 10:31 am

“...as a side note, I've always been uncomfortable with the idea of scaling up the notion of 'evil'. It seems to me better applied only to individuals.

Mass behavior looks to have it's own rhyme and rhythm and isn't (obviously) just a large version of a singleton.”

Interesting conversation you had with Dr. Rebane. As a side bar, the English language is so limited in its words. Other languages had two words for evil. They had evil as Dr. Rebane used it, and they had evil personified. For an example, when Christians (not Steve nor either of the Emery’s’ favorite group of people) recite the Lord’s Prayer and say, “deliver us from evil”, that word evil is in the personified form of evil.

Thus, the text should read “deliver us from the Evil One.” There is evil and evil personified. So, perhaps you and Dr. Rebane are both correct.

Bill Tozer

There’s that word evil again.

https://thefederalist.com/?s=Evil+

Bill Tozer

Evil has many masks:

https://www.facebook.com/Breitbart/photos/a.10159587164165354/10166182793195354/

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)