Contending and Correcting Elections

"Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord."  Isaiah 1:18

George Rebane

There’s an ‘open letter to the President’ going around the email circuit beseeching him to invoke the Insurrection Act, activate National Guard and the military to seize ballots and vote computers across the nation, publish all the secret evidence of alleged voting fraud, and essentially proceed toward a redo of the national election under newly prescribed and strict supervision.  The letter was written by two lawyers – Stewart Rhodes and Kellye SoRelle.

Regardless of what we think about the legitimacy of the November election, at this stage of the game I don’t think that carrying out the open letter’s prescriptions is a good idea.  If tried, it will not occur peacefully, and will most certainly give rise to massive civil disturbances that could lead to a civil war.  The problem is that the US has a 250-year history of elections – admittedly some more contended than others – that have in the end been accepted by our citizens with relatively minimal turbulence (e.g. ‘Battle of Athens’).  Because of this, our country has not put in place mechanisms to peacefully contend and correct both statewide and national elections.

Now I believe there’s an 80% chance that nationwide incidents of election fraud, ranging from petty to massive, occurred.  And I also believe that there’s a 50% chance that such fraud, as supported by presented and rejected evidence, would overturn significant election results (e.g. the presidency) if allowed its day in court and found to be true.  But today, we are where we are, and there remain only a few low probability opportunities to change the overwhelmingly accepted election outcomes using in-place processes and procedures.  The enduring problem we shoulder going forward is that, given the polls, there is a significant fraction of Americans who no longer have faith in the manner our elections are conducted (I am one of them.)  So, what to do?

My recommendation is that we join in a bipartisan effort to put in place a comprehensive and transparent set of processes and procedures under which future national (and perhaps also statewide) elections may be contended and corrected in an orderly and peaceful manner.  This would be launched and supervised by a congressional commission with a staffed working group of people with appropriate legal and information systems expertise to devise, develop, and test the resulting federal System for Contending and Correcting Elections (SCCE).

The bipartisan SCCE would prescribe the required legal underpinnings for its field operations, and recommend to Congress any additional supporting legislation needed.  Its working group would publish the how/when/who functions that define such things as SCCE election monitoring mechanisms, election scheduling, means of voting, vetting of franchised voters, accepting and processing reported irregularities, ballot chains of custody, isolating voting machines, standards of identifying and adjudicating fraud, procedures for holding re-elections, and so on.

In the latter case when a re-election is warranted, the SCCE's procedures for the uninterrupted continuance of government in the interval would already be laid out, specifying which elected and appointed officials remain with what duties and powers.  It is not yet clear whether all this can be accomplished through legislation, or will the Constitution need to be amended to handle such interregnum matters.

In any case, this approach of commissioning a SCCE during the relative political quietude between elections would serve our country much better than today’s calls for tanks in the intersections and attack helicopters flying overhead.  And in the worst case, the attempt to launch such an initiative would be very revealing of which organs of the Deep State, which private sector institutions, which corporatists, and which political parties rise to oppose such approaches to restore public confidence in the elections which sustain our democratic republic.

These are my preliminary thoughts on the matter, and I'm sure readers have their own ideas to offer on what, if any, preparations need be made to avoid the now existential travails we continue to suffer from the elections of 2016 and 2020.

Comments

[Scott O]

Well, I'm on board but you know how the left and the Dems will react.
"voter suppression!"
Not because it does involve that, but because it's a great trigger phrase for the idiot masses. No evidence or proof needed - just keep screeching it every 30 minutes on all social media and news casts.
Meanwhile we have the Georgia elections - hang on tight!

[Gregory]

No. In fact, hell no. No f*cking way.

Grafting a brand new Federal System for Contending and Correcting Elections onto our constitutional hodgepodge is a non-starter.

The Congress may refine the instructions to the states on how to conduct elections, and “Paper ballots, voter ID, no unrequested absentee ballots, election day is election day, ballot harvesting is a felony” would solve essentially all of the ills of the last election... and be constitutional... without creating a parallel system for fighting the fights of 2020.

[D]

Simple solution,

If you win the popular and electoral college votes - you win!

If you only win the electoral college - you lose!

[George Rebane]

Gregory 1213pm - I understand your opposition, but not the constitutionality of your solution. The federal government has no constitutional authority to dictate how the states may conduct their elections. Since I'm in longtime agreement with your offered solution, I'm now looking for a way to induce the states to come into agreement on such a solution. But as long as the Democrats depend on the urban ghettos and suburban miseducated progressives to guarantee their elected offices, there's only a snowball's chance in hell that they'll agree to a reasonable and fair solution in the several states which are controlled from their dense population centers.

Only a federal agency that has judicial and congressional backing to investigate and expose election fraud and identify the fraudsters, is in a position to encourage the states to adopt the solution we both deem reasonable and effective. Left to their own devices they will not. But then, my suggestion of a SCCE is also not guaranteed a safe journey through Congress and SCOTUS. So how to proceed without another pass at civil war?

re D 304pm - Now here we again have a liberal who has no clue as to what problem the country has encountered, and then offering a non-solution to confirm his deficit.

[D]

The Conspiratorial Whiners are still trying,

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/trump-appeals-pa-supreme-court-2020-election-decisions-20201220.html

[paul emery]

George:

If there is a reevaluation of the way we do elections we need to look at McConnells election as well:

"BUSTED? Why the numbers behind Mitch McConnell's re-election don't add up

Even as Republicans across the country still insist that the election was rife with fraudulent Democratic votes, no one's asking how McConnell managed one of the most lopsided landslides of the Nov. 3 election. They should. An investigation of Kentucky voting results by DCReport raises significant questions about the vote tallies in McConnell's state.

McConnell racked up huge vote leads in traditionally Democratic strongholds, including counties that he had never before carried.
There were wide, unexplained discrepancies between the vote counts for presidential candidates and down-ballot candidates.
Significant anomalies exist in the state's voter records. Forty percent of the state's counties carry more voters on their rolls than voting-age citizens.
Kentucky and many other states using vote tabulation machines made by Election Systems & Software all reported down-ballot race results at significant odds with pre-election polls.

Here's the whole story

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/12/why-the-numbers-behind-mitch-mcconnells-re-election-dont-add-up/

[Gregory]

Section. 4.

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

[Gregory]

Punchy 358pm

Shirley, you jest.

Rawstory... a'gin?

[paul emery]

Did you read the story Gregory? Raw Story is certainly better than Breitbart which has zero integrity which is quoted over and over on this ste.

[George Rebane]

Gregory 432pm - Thanks Gregory, your point is supported. But do you really think that Congress stepping in to break a 250-year silence on prescribing a uniform method of states' elections is easier than to create a unified federal approach to detecting and prosecuting election fraud, thereby inducing proper behavior by the several states as they continue implementing their own procedures?

PaulE 520pm - you really ought to give up crucifying messengers and see if you can actually prove that their message erred, thereby giving your now empty charges some substance. Show us where Breitbart erred. And here's what your messengers actually do, as they give us harbingers of what our country will be like when your side gains absolute power.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/youtube-removes-trump-lawyers-opening-statement-from-senate-committee-hearing_3626087.html

[Gregory]

Rawstory isn't a legitimate news organization Punch, and you haven't found me quoting Breitbart often, have you?

There's a reason you keep dipping into the Rawstory well. Are you self aware enough to tell us why?

[Walt]

Just WHAT "voter suppression"?

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/20/arnold-schwarzenegger-to-biden-create-a-new-voting-rights-act-to-fight-voter-suppression/

[Walt]

Gregory... It ain't called "raw sewage" for nothing.

[paul emery]

George, Gregory

Here's a little historical perspective on Breitbart

Breitbart was founded by historic slimer Andrew Breitbart before being taken over by accused crook Steve Bannon. Last August he was arrested with three three others and were charged with mail fraud and money laundering in connection to the We Build the Wall campaign. He has pleaded not guilty and will stand trial in May. In November his Twitter account was permanently suspended after he suggested that Anthony Fauci and FBI Director Christopher Wray should be beheaded. He was kind of the Rasputin of the Trump White House before he was banished.

I thoroughly expect Trump will pardon him.

[Don Bessee]

Which has what to do with the news aggregation from other sources @734 which is most of their content?

;-)

[George Rebane]

PaulE 734pm - I guess you didn't understand my 527pm.

[paul emery]

George, Gregory

I noted the kind of ilk that have run and shaped Breitbart and I assume the integrity of the publication reflects the quality of those who started and have run it. If you or Gregory give me some background as to why you feel Raw Story is not a legitimate news source based on the founders and leadership I'll gladly check it out.

[Scott O]

Paul "...and I assume the integrity of the publication reflects the quality of those who started and have run it."
First you claim something as fact and then you admit it's only an assumption.
You also admit you are basing your current assessment of Breitbart on people that haven't had anything to do with Breitbart for years.
Go now to Breitbart and report back on what is false.
Can't?
Didn't think so.
You might find facts that don't confirm your altered reality.

[Gregory]

Legitimate news
Political advocacy

Choose one

Andrew Breitbart was an ok guy. An advocate. A different pov than you, punch, and you still hate him. Your loss.

[Bill Tozer]

Punchy brought up an interesting scenario. Can a President pardon someone who has not been tried or convicted of a crime? You can’t indemnify a person from future acts, can you? Mark Levin would know that answer in 10 seconds. But, since he ain’t here, anybody know. Maybe Bannon could be pardoned since he has been charged, or do you need a conviction? Why pardon someone who has not been to trial.

Bannon goes to trial in May, Trump apparently out of office in Jan. So pardon in advance of a conviction?

Punchy sez: “He [Steve Bannon] has pleaded not guilty and will stand trial in May.” Blah blah, blah....
“I thoroughly expect Trump will pardon him.”

Or.....pardon him for getting the boot from Twitter?

[Gregory]

Punchy 845pm

Here you go,Paul... this is the guy with the sterling reputation you stand up for:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_K._Byrne#Outing_of_political_figures

Slimy bastard.

[Gregory]

Emery?...
Emery?...
Emery?...
Emery?...
Emery?...
Emery?...

[Steven Frisch]

Don't want to post a naked link so I will just say consider the sources:

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article247010392.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Keepers

[Gregory]

Two links ... not connected to anything being discussed here?

[Steven Frisch]

Brush up on your reading comprehension skills Gregory...

From George's original post: "The letter was written by two lawyers – Stewart Rhodes and Kellye SoRelle."

The links relate directly to the two authors of the letter calling for invoking the Insurrection Act.

[Gregory]

Aaaaah, so your claim is the authors were wrong once so they can't ever be trusted ever a'gin?

[Paul Emery]

Gregory
Gregory
Gregory

Any federal indictments or pending trials for John K. Byrne?

[Todd Juvinall]

The election solution is simple. The states must allow observers and audits and be totally transparent. No need to change anything else.

[Gregory]

Punchy punchy punchy...

No conviction, he's innocent... until proven guilty. Yes?

And Andrew Breitbart. the dead guy you smeared... what was his crime?

john byrne, your hero founder and CEO of RawStory, is a known sleazebag who outed gay people who didn't want to be outed. True?

[Don Bessee]

They wont stop the cheat -

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-secretary-of-state-letters-8k-out-of-state-voters

;-)

[Todd Juvinall]

Check this out and let me hear the cheers. 18 minutes on RUMBLE

https://rumble.com/vbngzz-election-2020-the-true-invisible-enemy.html

[RXCross]

Hey George..one pf your favorite sources of misinformation is having to walk back its groundless claims that electronic voting system companies Smartmatic and Dominion were involved in some kind of nefarious attempt to steal the election. Contrary to Newmax claims passed on via social media and the Trump people, the walkback in part stated that “Neither Dominion nor Smartmatic has any relationship with George Soros. Smartmatic is a U.S. company and not owned by the Venezuelan government, Hugo Chavez or any foreign official or entity." So much for that pile of crap along with every other bogus claim of election fraud that you and yours so staunchly believe is true.

[D]

RX, You would have to be a Trumpkin to believe that Soros was connected, oh yeah.
And Smartmatic only had equipment in LA, but they were somehow part of the swing states that cheated.

[RXCross]

D -- There are two kinds of reality...truth and the world according to the trumpanzies..

[paul emery]

Gregory

Not a peep from you when various RR's chime in about Hillary to "Lock her up"

Breitbart was a sleazy journalist suid several times including this one:

"In 2011, Breitbart and one of his editors Larry O'Connor were sued for defamation by Shirley Sherrod, who had been fired after Breitbart posted a video of a speech given by Sherrod. The video had been selectively edited to suggest that she had purposely discriminated against a white farmer, while in reality the unedited video told the story of how she had helped that farmer"

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2015/07/breitbart-sherrod-near-libel-settlement-209824

[paul emery]

So the lies are being revealed by Newsmax and Fox:

Newsmax, a far-right news network that routinely peddles baseless conspiracy theories that favor Donald Trump, over the weekend began airing a lengthy clarification of its coverage about voter fraud in the presidential election.

In a nearly two-minute statement that is being read on all Newsmax shows, the channel is essentially walking back its own groundless claims that electronic voting system companies Smartmatic and Dominion were involved in some kind of nefarious attempt to steal the election.

“There are several facts our viewers and readers should be aware,” host John Tabacco said on Monday, before debunking a long list of conspiratorial claims.

“Neither Dominion nor Smartmatic has any relationship with George Soros. Smartmatic is a U.S. company and not owned by the Venezuelan government, Hugo Chavez or any foreign official or entity. Smartmatic states it has no operations in Venezuela,” he continued.

More here:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/newsmax-smartmatic-fox-news_n_5fe108e8c5b60d416344f057

[Scott O]

Paul - Sherrod had in fact purposely discriminated against a white farmer. After she realized that the media had picked up the story she then did an "oopsie" and ended up helping the farmer.
Her speech was part of her CYA for her racist attitude.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 652pm - How in your wildest dream does that recounting of relationships have anything to do with the allegations (evidence?) that the companies were involved in election fraud? Is this another dish of liberal logic?

[Walt]

Here we go again with "unnamed sources"
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/feds-have-discussed-making-legal-request-giuliani-s-electronic-communications-n1250714

Will Emery tell us how attorney client privilege has no bearing?.. I'm sure he has a law deg. to go along with his MED. degrees.

[paul emery]

George

Once again here is the situation expressed by Trumps favorite news service Newsmax whom you have also spoken favorably about. The link is from 6:52.

"the channel is essentially walking back its own groundless claims that electronic voting system companies Smartmatic and Dominion were involved in some kind of nefarious attempt to steal the election."

You spouted the connection with Dominion yourself as possibly being involved in altering the vote. They have refuted that claim from their perspective. It's also was part of the "evidence" in several lawsuits including the failed Texas effort.

[Bill Tozer]

Nothing like being tarred with that nasty ole Broadbrush, eh?

Bill Tozer
Well, at least Newsmax walked it back. I am still waiting for the Russian Collusion Hoax and the Spy-Gate deniers to begin to commence to start walking it back.

While I did not read the Newsmax piece, it was all over my sites that “hold the presses boys, somebody got that story wrong....and immediately, that day or hours latter We don’t sweep it under the rug, at least truth seekers don’t.

I confess that I don’t read Breitbart. Don’t need to. They come out with some good stuff all the time and I can most surely rely on Brother Walt and Cousin Don will let us know what’s going on over there. Same with Daily Caller. Wallt is on top on it and Dr. Rebane is on top of the Daily Signal.
I like the Daily Wire, but DAMN! ‘They’ have gone ape throttling back on the Daily Wire much more AFTER the election than even before. Like, the gloves are off and the Tech Giants are grabbing Shapiro by the throat and shaking his head violently while digging their thumbs in his air passage in a fevered attempt to choke him to death. He gets blocked every few hours now. Don’t know how long I will able to post a link from the Daily Wire. Half the time I can’t, recently. And great stories too. Lately, sometimes I can only see the articles’ headlines, but can’t open a link, any link. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe the Matrix is not perfect, maybe it’s working the bugs out since leaving S Cal in his rear view mirror and setting up shop in Nashville, Tennessee. A born and raised North Hollywood Jew in Tennessee, lol. Or maybe is time to jump to Parlor so I don’t have to live living on dialup. Just that site. Buchanan got axed for awhile for his historical account of Joe Biden’s foreign policy neo-con war mongering ways, shitting on our allies and kissing the asses of our enemies. Opps, off topic.

Anyway, I remember once reading that Briethbyrt issued a Mea Culpa. We t across the wires. So, I went over and checked it out. Sure enough, there was a front page lead story apology starting they got that one wrong in bold print and what exactly they got wrong with no minced CYA words. Included a link to the old article as well as below the “We Blew It” was a rewritten new article on the story with everything factual correct. That was 4 hours AFTER the original story.

Oh, sometimes the NYT will walk back a story four days later, buried on the bottom of the third column on A-17 or A-19-23. And no apology. The story “has been updated”

And da Wa Compost? They are getting better at fussing up to their mistakes on certain occasions when enough backlash hits them in the face. However, there are a few, just a little handful, of grievous totally ‘blew the stories” that wrongly slimed us righties for days on in and to this hour, of you read the comment section in the Union.
The Washington Farting Post will not, no way, no how, even broach the subject. Need I mention not even issuing an acknowledgment of being human and getting the story wrong and copping to fact their lead MAJOR HEADLINE SCREAMING stories were all made out of thin air. I know, they are only human. But sometimes you gotta wonder if those kind of humans have souls at all, or did they just temporary lose them. Pity the lost scarecrow souls, thinking they have a brain.

So, Newsmax got one wrong, eh. Darn, I thought they walked on water like CNN, the NYT, Wa Compost, and Raw Deal. How come nobody is reading the Huntington PMS Post anymore?

[George Rebane]

PaulE 820pm - Regardless of how it eventually falls out, at least Newsmax was upright enough change their report when they received new information - i.e. they then changed their mind. There is not a even a hint of any of the lamestream channels doing that after years upon years of promoting big lies to the American public. Rejoice that you've found at least one outlet that has the courage to correct itself when it thinks the facts warrant.

[Gregory]

Punchy 645pm

"Not a peep from you when various RR's chime in about Hillary to "Lock her up""

I'm not going to take your job here... you're the turd in this punchbowl,Punch, and we weren't discussing Hillary. The subject is your sliming of A. Breitbart and S. Bannon

[paul emery]

No sliming of Bannon, Gregory. It's a fact he's been arrested and is scheduled for trian in March. Breitbarts record of enhancing "facts" is established and has been for years.

[Scott O]

Paul - " Breitbarts record of enhancing "facts" is established and has been for years."
In other words, Paul can't find anything wrong with BB beyond the fact that he doesn't like their worldview.

[Walt]

Since Emery is a Queen and country kind of guy,, he must surely approve.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/12/22/exclusive-video-this-is-fascism-london-mayoral-candidate-faces-off-lockdown-cops/
"London Assembly Member David Kurten was questioned by police while giving an interview to Breitbart News, in which he characterised Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s response to the coronavirus as fascistic.

During an anti-lockdown protest on Saturday, London mayoral candidate David Kurten told Breitbart London that “riot” police came in to bust up a group of people surrounding him for supposedly breaching the city’s lockdown rules."

It ain't called "Londonstan" for nothing.

[D]

We finally have the proof! Case closed!

"Officials finally found a case of a dead person voting, accusing a Republican of pretending to be his dead mom to vote for Trump"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/officials-finally-found-case-dead-225210492.html

[Steven Frisch]

I don't think it is "sliming A. Breitbart" to point out that his publication libeled a public servant and that they eventually paid a settlement in that libel suit rather than go to court.

https://www.agri-pulse.com/articles/6066-sherrod-settles-lawsuit-over-breitbart-video-that-got-her-fired-from-usda

Nor is it "sliming" S. Bannon to point out that he is facing criminal fraud charges for defrauding veterans. (of course he also recently called for beheading some public officials too, so I found an article that covers both at one ironic fell swoop.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elanagross/2020/11/06/lawyers-wont-represent-steve-bannon-in-criminal-fraud-case-after-his-shocking-video/?sh=3c0c193b8fc3

[Barry Pruett]

Same with CNN and WaPo to then as well yes? See sandmann...

[D]

Sorry George, the "hints" abound,

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2017/not-fake-news-just-plain-wrong-top-media-corrections-of-2017/

[George Rebane]

Thank you D.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Barry Pruett | 22 December 2020 at 01:10 PM

Barry, just to be clear I believe that any media outlet that libels a member of the public or a public official should be held accountable, including the WaPo or CNN. The issue is whether or not the report is true, accurate or falls under the fair comment and criticism standard if an opinion piece.

Posted by: Scott O | 21 December 2020 at 07:05 PM

"Paul - Sherrod had in fact purposely discriminated against a white farmer. After she realized that the media had picked up the story she then did an "oopsie" and ended up helping the farmer.
Her speech was part of her CYA for her racist attitude."

Scott, your account is total unmitigated bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firing_of_Shirley_Sherrod

You can watch the full speech here, Archie.

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/shirleysherrodnaacpfreedom.htm

[Walt]

Oh... Wiki.. Edited for Proggy consumption.

Frischy must be getting writer's cramp filling out all the grant forms in preparation(H) for the bastard prezident's spending spree.
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/12/22/graham-if-you-think-the-spending-bill-is-bad-lose-georgia-and-see-what-happens/

[Gregory]

Any doubt, Stevie, that were the races reversed in 2020 that there would be no mercy shown?

The Cancel Culture is unforgiving.

[Walt]

That's right,, follow Kalif.'s lead.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/22/new-york-state-andrew-cuomo-automatic-voter-registration/
Motorvoter NY style.
"
The 2020 New York Automatic Voter Registration Act assigns to New York’s Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and other State agencies that directly interact with New York residents the responsibility of working with the State Board of Elections to integrate their agency and voter registration applications, a press release from Governor Cuomo’s office announced."

Has everyone got their replacement "real ID's" for the Kalif. screwup?

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Walt | 22 December 2020 at 09:06 PM

Yep, what a crime that we would seek to register all voters and do so with a form of ID...either a DL or a RID that is universally accepted in the US.

Of course you don't want people to vote...the higher the numbers the more you lose.

[Barry Pruett]

Steve. Nobody wants people not to vote. Nobody. That’s a strawman argument. Folks want to be assured that only citizens vote one time and there is absolutely no cheating. In order for our democracy to remain healthy, our elections must be pristine. We can never have another election shitshow like we just had in 2020. If we need to show ID in order to enter a federal building, then it’s completely reasonable and not a burden at all for people to show ID to vote so that we can rest assured that nobody is trying to manipulate our elections. My personal opinion is that election day should be a national holiday and that everybody is required to go to the polls to vote in person with ID (with exceptions for the infirm). I actually like how they dyed the finger of Iraqis after they voted. One person, one vote.

[Gregory]

The higher the numbers of illegal voters, the more we all lose, Steve.

[Barry Pruett]

Gregory. The less election and ballot security, we all as a nation lose. Insecure elections are detrimental to the foundation of our democracy.

[George Rebane]

re SteveF 322pm - Over the years such droppings have been regularly inserted in these pages so as to continue the attempt to claim the virtuous high ground with nothing more substantive than red herrings, such as presented here.

(A red herring is an attack on an argument with what is represented as a fact, but is actually false.)

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: Barry Pruett | 23 December 2020 at 07:29 AM

Except of course there was no election shit show in 2020....there is no evidence of any widespread vote fraud...and the entire argument you are premising your case on is a lie.

[Steven Frisch]

Posted by: George Rebane | 23 December 2020 at 09:20 AM

"Red herring,"is ironic coming from the guy who titles a post "The Sovietization of California."

[Gregory]

SF 1019am

It sure looks like an election shit show, Steve. Widespread? No... at most, it's targeted. A handful of states.

[RXCross]

Barry -- what is even more "detrimental to the foundation of our democracy" is proven secure elections that have been challenged by deranged people with no basis in fact what-so-ever! How many rejected court cases does it take to convince you people of the truth? How many lies can you ignore and still look in a mirror?

"Nobody wants people not to vote." another lie put forth by the right. Republicans don't want people of color to vote, otherwise all of the Republican controlled statehouses wouldn't implement acts of voter suppression. It is common knowledge that the Republican Party is the minority party and as such, has to suppress voters in order to win. As the last election has adequately demonstrated, high turnout favors Democrats. In seven of the last eight Presidential elections republicans have LOST the popular vote. The only way they can win the Whitehouse is by gaming the antiquated electoral college and the only way to do that is to suppress non-white voters, who typically vote with the Democrats, in key districts in key swing states. That is the reality of the situation.. like it or not.

[Gregory]

"... what is even more "detrimental to the foundation of our democracy" is proven secure elections that have been challenged by deranged people with no basis in fact what-so-ever! How many rejected court cases does it take to convince you people of the truth? How many lies can you ignore and still look in a mirror?"

Crossman... you and yours did it for four years with Russia Russia Russia, hobbling the Trump presidency. The "baseless" Russia bogosity.

How many lies can you stomach?

[George Rebane]

Interesting that EVERYONE of the Left is still ignorant of how the courts dealt with presented evidence of fraud. No court deigned to negate the evidence; ALL cases were denied on the basis of 'process'. To the Left such rulings negate unexamined evidence, in the same vein in which those of the Left consider their allegations to qualify as evidence.

[paul emery]

Looks like the weight of lies is going to take Rudy down and likely Trump too:

Lawyers representing Dominion Voting Systems have told Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani to preserve all records related to their client -- and that he faces an "imminent" defamation lawsuit for his smears of the company.

CNN reports that attorneys Tom Clare and Megan Meier from Clare Locke LLP, this week sent letters to Giuliani and White House counsel Pat Cipollone demanding that they preserve records and communications related to the Trump legal team's smear campaign against Dominion, which was falsely accused by exiled Trump lawyer Sidney Powell of conspiring with late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez to steal the election.

https://www.rawstory.com/giuliani-dominion-lawsuit/

The attorneys also warned Giuliani to stop making "defamatory claims against Dominion" and accused him of conducting a "smear campaign against the company."

CNN describes Clare and Meier as "well-known defamation attorneys" and the network speculates that their reputation may have been what spooked Giuliani into putting more explicit distance between the Trump campaign and Powell this week.

[paul emery]

George

I assume the DOJ and FBI examined the "evidence of fraud" as you describe it, and found nothing as expressed in their public statements on the matter.

[Walt]

Emery has been REAL quiet on THIS. Funny,, when it's YOUR side doing the whining,,, THAT'S Different!!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/attorney-marc-elias-leads-democrat-effort-to-overturn-house-race-in-iowas-2nd-district/

It just more fun to bitch about Trump... Right Emery?

[RXCross]

George --EVERYONE of the right is still ignorant of how the courts dealt with presented evidence of fraud.. they dismissed them without comment because there was NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD.. unexamined evidence ...there was none.. How long can you continue to believe the delusional ranting of fraud? How long can you continue to try and put lipstick on a pig? Your credibility, if there ever was any, is down to zero...

Greggy-- LOL .."How many lies can you stomach?" apparently not as many as you can. What is the count on Trump lies up to now 30,000? Perhaps some psychological counseling would help with your delusions.

[Barry Pruett]

RXCross. Evidence is examined during trials. How many trials were conducted since the election to sort through the evidence in order to determine whether there was fraud or not? The answer is zero trials. Zero substantive decisions. All decisions were procedural the majority of which were based on the issue of standing. Please show a link to one of the trials that sorted through the evidence. I’ll wait.

You and Steve are either ignorant of the facts or are intentionally misleading in order to rhetorically support your position. I thought that you guys are supposed to be the smartest guys in the room? 😂😂🇺🇸

[Bill Tozer]

“It just more fun to bitch about Trump... Right Emery?”

Oh Walt, It’s a lot more fun than spending hours extolling Biden’s virtues and policies. Nature abhors a vacuum.

I do ‘t need no stinking check and they send the money away. Like, what is this for? Those that live by the government’s teet, die by the government’s teet. Kinda of like slavery.
—————————
The danger I see here is that because of the one Newsmax story, the Dems and Commies shout out that the WHOLE ball of wax has been debunked, nothing to see here. Stop all inquires intp voting machines, folks.

And no signature verifications! It’s voter suppression.

[Walt]

"WE" will tell you what schools to go to.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/23/coronavirus-stimulus-package-specifically-blocks-school-choice/
Well HELL!!!,,,, Just pass the bong in class while your at it.
The more stupid the kid the better.. That's how LIBS get them to vote for them.

[paul emery]

Come on Barry you know that evidence is collected and used as a basis for arrests and indictments after they are presented to the AG or locally the District of Attorney . Then there are trials etc. You know that. The evidence was examined by DOJ and FBI and they determined there was no need to continue at this time.

[RXCross]

Barry -- I think you are supposed to be a lawyer..I would think that you might understand that in order to have a trial in the first place there must be sufficient evidence to proceed. It is obvious that at least 49 of the GOP suits did not fulfill that requirement or there would have been a trial. Like people in glass houses you shouldn't throw the term ignorant around.

[Barry Pruett]

I am a lawyer. I’m a really good lawyer. And your comment stands all by itself demonstrating how clearly ignorant of the legal system you are.

[D]

File under: Sue Their "Assets" Off,

"In an era of brazen political lies, Mr. Mugica (Dominion Voting Systems) has emerged as an unlikely figure with the power to put the genie back in the bottle. Last week, his lawyer sent scathing letters to the Fox News Channel, Newsmax and OAN demanding that they immediately, forcefully clear his company’s name — and that they retain documents for a planned defamation lawsuit. He has, legal experts say, an unusually strong case. And his new lawyer is J. Erik Connolly, who not coincidentally won the largest settlement in the history of American media defamation in 2017, at least $177 million, for a beef producer whose “lean finely textured beef” was described by ABC News as “pink slime.”

Now, Mr. Connolly’s target is a kind of red slime, the stream of preposterous lies coming from the White House and Republican officials around the country."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/business/media/smartmatic-lawsuit-fox-news-newsmax-oan.html?auth=login-email&login=email

[paul emery]

Barry

I would appreciate an explanation of your 12:37 as applied to this situation. Am I wrong in assuming the FBI investigates crimes and the DOJ decides if there should be trials and arrests. Much like locally when the sheriffs dept investigates and the District Attorney determines whether there is enough evidence for a trial.

In the case of federal voter fraud neither the FBI or BARR felt there was enough evidense for a trial which means there must h ave been some kind of investigation to make that determination.

[paul emery]

Make that Attorney General (In this case Barr) rather than DOJ

[paul emery]

Direct quote from Barr

"To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election," Barr said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Barr's comments are some of the sharpest rejections yet from a Cabinet member of Trump's false and baseless claims of a "rigged" election.

“There’s a growing tendency to use the criminal justice system as sort of a default fix-all, and people don’t like something they want the Department of Justice to come in and ‘investigate,’” Barr said.

"Most claims of fraud are very particularized to a particular set of circumstances or actors or conduct. They are not systemic allegations," he continued. "And those have been run down; they are being run down. Some have been broad and potentially cover a few thousand votes. They have been followed up on.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/barr-no-special-counsel-needed-election-fraud-or-hunter-biden-n1251927

[Walt]

Litigator Pruett. Emery is at TROLL status now. There is no getting through. If you tell him the sky is blue,, he will just ask,, "WHY????" It's time to stop feeding the TROLL.

Your better off just putting him in a round room, and telling
to pee in a corner. You will get better results.

[L]

Very much looking forward to a suit by Dominion claiming defamation. Good way to have a long look at their machines and system. Paul, not even Sydney Powell alleged that Hugo Chavez conspired with Dominion to rig our 2020 election- or didn't you hear, Chavez graduated to worm food in 2013, although his legacy is alive in your sentiments.

[Gregory]

crossman 1142am

"Greggy-- LOL .."How many lies can you stomach?" apparently not as many as you can. What is the count on Trump lies up to now 30,000? Perhaps some psychological counseling would help with your delusions."

You had to jump completely over the fraud of the previous election... the Russia collusion hoax. Not a shred of evidence, yet it kept dogging Trump until... even now.

The WaPo list I've never seen, as it's behind the paywall. I suspect you've not seen it either. But none of the Trump statements come to the bar set by Obama...
"President’s weekly address, June 6, 2009: "If you like the plan you have, you can keep it. If you like the doctor you have, you can keep your doctor, too. The only change you’ll see are falling costs as our reforms take hold."

I like the "falling costs" lie especially ... don't you?

Most of Trumps "lies" are pure hyperbole. Like saying his favorite color is blue when it's red.
https://youtu.be/0D7hFHfLEyk?t=140

[Barry Pruett]

Paul. How many months did the mueller investigation take?

[paul emery]

Well Walt you should be happy that I support Trump n his call for $2000 stimulus checks. Should make you happy that I'm coming around to supporting your guy.

[RXCross]

Barry 12:37 -- Procedural dismissals are the first level and the easiest, quickest, and most efficient way to dismiss frivolous lawsuits, which is just what happened. Why bother when the plaintiffs are clearly just throwing up mud in a failed effort to see what sticks.. in this case Guliani and co. were so incompetent they couldn't even frame the suits properly enough to get a court to listen to their fraudulent claims in the first place.

[Barry Pruett]

Read any civil procedure book and then we can have an intellectual conversation about these issues.

[Walt]

Well look at Emery... For the first time has he EVER liked what Trump has said... and now for wanting to spend money??
You find that corner in a round room yet?
Now where is the gripe about your queen of the DAMNED throwing money away in foreign lands?

[paul emery]

Either way Barry The FBI and Attorney General are on record saying no problem with voter fraud affecting the elections. That's where we stand as of today.

[Barry Pruett]

Arguing with you and cross is like arguing with my three year old grandson about why he can’t have a cookie. It takes years to develop these cases. Yet you expect it to be done in three weeks. Lol. Silly people.

[paul emery]

Am I correct is saying this Barry yes or no?

"That's where we stand as of today."

[paul emery]

Walt

I thought you'd be thrilled that I am supporting Trump on this one. You , being a solid Trump supporter, I'm sure you, as a solid Trumpster, support the $2000 proposal for assistance that Trump wants.

[Bill Tozer]

I am opposed to the 2,000 dollar checks, other than if someone’s unemployment ran out and the unemployment compensation was due solely to the Chinese spreading their virus. Like, some bird brain working for the Forest Service, who never missed one check, is going to get a nickle??? Screw that. US Forest workers do not deserve anything more than their paycheck.Government employees do not deserve one penny and neither do non-profits and others with their hands out for green energy, retrofitting homes, or Super Trains and bridges to nowhere.

I am glad there are provisions in the new free money that exclude some who got money earlier. Like, filing of taxes, employed at a certain timeline, 2019 tax returns, etc. At least we still exclude those non-legal foreign Nationals who broke into our country illegally. Like rewarding a thief who broke into your house by offering the thief a hot meal, shower, and guest room. That would be immoral.

[Barry Pruett]

I asked you a question Paul. How long did the mueller investigation take?

I’ll wait.

[Walt]

Hey Jeffy... Yours is a close to empty tomb.
Now why don't you go back there and talk to yourself.
Get me a cup of coffee while your at it.

[Barry Pruett]

I too am a grammar Nazi, but I have enough sense to keep my shit to myself. Elitist. 😂😂😂🇺🇸

[paul emery]

Mueller investigation took a coup;e of years Barry but that question is irrelevant to confirming the situation that as of now the Attorney General and FBI have not found evidence of voter fraud that could have changed the election. You apparently supported the Texas appeal to the Supreme court that would have reversed the election based on no evidence at the time.

[Walt]

The Frisco Kid is getting all uppity. Funny,, I haven't ever been fired.. How bout you?,,,, O girthy one.

[Walt]

Speaking of elections,, Repubs make LIBS soil themselves.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/23/capitol-police-board-democrats-guns/

A pesky right called the 2ND Amend.