Extraterrestrials and Religion

George Rebane

Recently the Ignatius Forum held a session on ‘The Future of Space’ at our National Cathedral attended by theologians, government space officials, private sector space entrepreneurs, and academics.  Among the latter was Prof Avi Loeb of Harvard who is also active in SETI and a member of the international SETI group (of which I am a member) administered by the Berkeley SETI Research Center.

While the larger topic was finding ETs, a more focused topic of interest was how we earthlings bring the existence of ETIs into concordance with our notions of God and religion.  Prof Loeb is not a person of faith, but made it clear that “science and religion are not necessarily in conflict, as long as one is careful not to ignore the boundary between physics and meta-physics. … In finding advanced extraterrestrial intelligence, religion might simply reflect advanced science with a twist. Traditional religions described God as the creator of the Universe and life within it. They also suggested that humans were made in the image of God. But these notions are not necessarily in contradiction with science. A sufficiently advanced scientific civilization might be able to create synthetic life in its laboratories; in fact, some of our terrestrial laboratories almost reached that threshold. And with a good understanding of how to unify quantum-mechanics and gravity, an advanced scientific civilization could potentially create a baby universe in its laboratories. Therefore, an advanced scientific civilization might be a good approximation to God.” (more here with links to the forum)

Long time readers will recognize this as a position much discussed over the years in these pages, especially as it relates to my position as a copernican viz science.  In that, Loeb and many other scientists are kindred spirits.  What impressed me is the Harvard astro-physicist’s stance on the perspective humanity should assume when it considers cosmic matters - these being humility, modesty, and calmness.  In the greater scheme of things we are not important enough about which to make a great fuss.  I have dwelled on the quantitative measures of our ordinary insignificance in my SETI paper (here) among other postings.

In the final analysis of integrating religion, science, and an intelligent creator, I find nothing awkward or contrary in my particular understanding of Christianity as a faith compatible with civilizations across the universe.  It is a particularly comforting belief system to embrace as we seek to understand the Upanishad’s ‘Tat tvam asi!’

Postscript – ‘Who am I?’ is a question often heard from people seeking to find a deeper significance to their existence.  It is the wrong question, and we already know its answer, since ‘who’ seeks to identify one as a particular member of a known set.  ‘Tat tvam asi!’ points to the much deeper question of ‘What am I?’, the question which seeks to know the essence of the set itself.

Comments

[rlcrabb]

If ET lands in the US, he (It? They?)had better not bring any religion with them. https://thehill.com/homenews/media/581443-michael-flynn-says-of-the-us-we-have-to-have-one-religion

[Walt]

It's all good Crabbman,, Lefties have flooded us with plenty of fake religion. Like Global warming, from the unholy church of East Anglia.

As for "ET", I doubt very much we are "alone". Too much video of things defying the laws of physics. (maybe not quantum physics)

[George Rebane]

rlcrabb - 544pm - Interesting find Bob. I guess that's another reason few have nominated Flynn as their religious adviser.

[Bob Hobert]

Man is a spiritual being, setting us apart in the animal kingdom. We must believe in something. Insofar as that something is outside, beyond and better than ourselves, something to strive for, we are enriched. Here's some enrichment from awhile back worth reviewing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H17edn_RZoY

[scenes]

I'll have to give the household Lares a bit of wine today and ponder about Flynn's newfangled creed

" Lefties have flooded us with plenty of fake religion.".

They would argue that their movement isn't religious as it lacks supernatural underpinnings (aside from pretending that men can be women of course), but no doubt it hits all the same brain chemistry as flagellants scourging their way around Europe. A word that means 'religion' but can draw in a scad of civic culture is probably needed.

Can you have a country that isn't a nation? Maybe, but it takes a lot of top-down pressure. As a side note, you can make an argument that some religions are more rural in nature (Protestantism/Mormonism, especially the US variety with the self-reliance meme) and some are more urban (Catholicism/Judaism).

This new thing that has erupted in the West combines the magic of urbanism with a general lack of utility as it combines people who do little that is useful for living with those who do nothing at all. I don't give it long-term legs as adjacent cultures with higher birth rates will swamp it eventually, but a lot of damage can be done in the meantime.

[George Rebane]

scenes 740am - "... country that isn't a nation?" Examples that come to mind are Kurdistan, and the various culturally cohesive 'tribes' on the Indochina peninsula whose regions (countries?) overlap established sovereign nation-states. One could also say that of most of the conquered 'republics' of the USSR that were culturally very cohesive with known regional territories - my native Estonia having been one of them throughout most of its history.

[Gregoory]

The clip of flynn is abruptly cut, leaving me to wonder if he had gone on to make it clear he wasn't talking about one church/synagogue/mosque/coven/none of the above.
Freude schoener gotterfunken...

Crabby the Simpleminded was quick to jump to a conclusion,

[scenes]

"Examples that come to mind are Kurdistan"

It's interesting that the name has an ethnic group built in. I should be more exact, by 'exist' I mean 'exist for a long time'. A Peter Turchin notion is that nations are formed from adjacent ones to meet highly-foreign existential threats next door. Russia is a fine example, them steppe tribes was no joke. Protecting the gold and pretty wimmen is an honorable task for all. Question: Is the idea of a Western state even practical in Central Asia? I suppose that once you can get (force) everyone to sit on their ass in front of a computer all day the next logical step is sorting by region or something else, but it'll probably be a while in their case.

Modern boundaries are funny beasts. Some sort of combination of the British penchant for surveying, imposed borders, and a simple need to nail down every smidge of land in terms of ownership. Natural barriers aside, they used to be a lot more fluid and/or surrounded by marches. Even something like Hadrian's Wall wasn't so much a boundary in a legal sense but was a set of defensive works. Changes in shape are usually not as sudden as Poland (which had it's own territorial ambitions) taking a giant step to the left, but both large wars and large treaties give you large results

[scenes]

Gregory@10:25AM

That's probably a fair point. My search skills are being sore tested to find an original of the speech.

Hey, it's just modern times. Some guy emits some words. A 'news' site picks it up. All the other 'news' sites reference the first one. An unofficial phone bank breaks out with Mr. Crabb at the bottom. No doubt I've done the same thing and life goes on.

I like the idea of having a debate between GenFlynn and somebody like this guy.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10203843/Pro-CRT-parent-ex-member-black-militia-group-threatens-anti-CRT-parents.html

You could build a nearly unlimited number of CNN-esque 'news' channels starring people getting het up.

[George Rebane]

Mike Flynn's speech on video.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/michael-flynn-draws-condemnation-for-saying-u-s-should-only-have-one-religion-11636940136

[scenes]

re: GeorgeR 1:23PM

(aha, it took a second to find a browser/OS/security settings that would play that in my humble abode. That site doesn't play well with anything security oriented.)

Methinks that's just one more website that points back to the original clip that Gregory was referring to. A hard cut intended to maximize the shockingosity of the statement.

Personally, I don't much care what he says since he's just a private citizen standing on his two hind feet aside from just a general interest in taking a temperature of the water. In a world of ubiquitous surveillance, commercial & gubmint & those oh-so-well-meaning people with cell phones who just want to shoot stuff onto social media, everybody gets their few minutes of carrying-on. The rantings of the country are better used for predicting the future than they are current outrage. Who know, maybe all those evil Christians will start burning down buildings in Minneapolis some day.