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21 January 2022

Comments

Don Bessee

Interesting the left has no answer.

;-)

scenes

"Interesting the left has no answer."

No need. There's always an elegance to centralization until you actually try it.

I've always wondered what sort of hand waving goes on in meeting rooms as communications and power systems become more explicitly controlled in the interest of 'efficiency'.

Paul Emery

George

Can you list three or four countries that have come closest to enacting the principals you describe in this post.

Don Bessee

Again the ponytail of ignorance has nothing to offer @224. #posadfool

;-)

bossniglio

Posted by: Don Bessee | 26 January 2022 at 02:46 PM


He's playing radio interviewer again.....

Ask an open ended question.....head out to the parking lot for a smoke while the guest rambles on for 10 minutes!

An old DJ trick!

George Rebane

PaulE 223pm - I think you meant 'principles'; principals are usually people with agency in an organization or in a transaction/deal. I assume you mean countries that don't embrace the principles of nature and/or system science. A few that come to mind are - Red China, USSR, 3rd Reich, Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Haiti, Cambodia, Iran, Syria, Turkey, today’s Afghanistan, Myanmar (Burma), almost every African country, Argentina, Albania, … . Another good source is checking the Cato Institute's Human Freedom Index. There you can check countries on both end of the spectrum of collectivist governance.
https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index/2020

Paul Emery

Thanks for the correction George. Always get those two mixed up What I'm interested in are countries you feel have embraced the " principles of nature and/or system science" you refer to. I will check out the Cato link but I'm more interested in your opinion

Don Bessee

Says the guy with no opinion just talking points a la cnn @349. LOL

;-)

Scott O

Can you imagine Paul in the later 1700s in the British colony in North America?
Paul - "Can you show me any countries that embrace these principles that you describe, George?"
Mr Washington - "No - we'll be the first."

George Rebane

ScottO 523pm - Over the years it's become clear that in PaulE's world nothing can be done that hasn't been done. That is one of the immutable tenets of the liberal Left who also claim to be progressive while not having shown any evidence in that direction. With such mentality firmly in place in 1775, the American Revolution would never have taken place. What's even more alarming is that the unionized teachers are teaching these sclerotic principles to our kids.

Paul Emery

George

Checking out your CATO link I found this:

"The HFI is the most comprehensive freedom index so far created for a globally meaningful set of countries. The HFI covers 162 countries for 2018, the most recent year for which sufficient data are available. The index ranks countries beginning in 2008, the earliest year for which a robust enough index could be produced.:The jurisdictions that took the top 10 places, in order, were New Zealand, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Denmark, Australia, Canada, Ireland, Estonia, and Germany and Sweden (tied in 9th place).:"

Are these countries whose policies you would like to see us emulate? For example all have very sophisticated national health care programs which you oppose for us. Can you explain that?

scenes

"very sophisticated national health care "

Switzerland doesn't have a national health care system.

Also, keep in mind that decentralized control doesn't mean you can't have federal highways.

Bill Tozer

Netherlands just dumped all covid mandates

Bill Tozer

How did I know that by Punch's first post he would end up taking it to health care.

Hong Kong has no capital gains tax.

scenes

"How did I know that by Punch's first post he would end up taking it to health care. "

Part B will be 'healthcare in Denmark'. It's all so tiresome.

Looking through the original post, my take is that the tendency in the West will be to strengthen control systems as the whole deal gets tippy. Of course, the final result is more disastrous.

I was thinking in terms of automation of large organization behavior, much stronger surveillance and guidance of employees. The sketchier things get, the more you turn the crank. A world where senior management can see an employee's individual keystrokes (or their software can), generals give orders to privates via satellite, central bankers merge with the equities market, etc. is no bueno.

Don Bessee

@608 Still having those comprehension issues eh.

;-)

scenes

"@608 Still having those comprehension issues eh."

I think it's a fair point to look at 'free' countries.

Of course, the highest entries are always small countries with homogeneous populations, in fact they tend to have ethnicity that rhymes

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country

My guess is that Paul is making the point that you can have a fairly high degree of government interference in life as long as it's a place filled with white people.

Do I have that right Paul?

Paul Emery

Scenes

I went to the link George recommended and that's what I found. This was Georges recommendation to me:

" Another good source is checking the Cato Institute's Human Freedom Index. There you can check countries on both end of the spectrum of collectivist governance."

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index/2020

scenes

PE@7:14PM

So taking the list of top ten...

New Zealand, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Denmark, Australia, Canada, Ireland, Estonia, and Germany and Sweden

(Hong Kong? not for long...I wonder why Iceland isn't on that list)

I take your point that small homogeneous white nations tend to be more free, and that they have universal health care among other things (note the word: universal, not national. all those systems are pretty different from each other. Switzerland makes you buy insurance, go figure, and is run mostly at the canton level).

Given your example of white, homogeneous nations, what is the chance that government regulation is simply a codification of rules arrived at organically by the population? Said more simply, if everyone mostly agrees on something, you might as well write it down.

What do you think Paul?

Bill Tozer

@ 7:27 pm

interesting to note Ukraine is down near the basement of the outhouse along with Betnie's beloved Venezuel...along with every single Muslim country in the Mid-East and sub-Saharan Africa.

Personal freedom to marry, work, travel, and less business regulations are the key. Remember Gavin's assualt on work and freedom with his independent contractor squeeze? Definity not compatible with a good Freedom Index score.

Seems to be countries with less overeaching Big Brother are far freer than say the southern hemisphere.
Did also note that safety was a component of the Freedom Index. No wonder folks are pushing back on Soros backed DAs in Seattle, LA, Frisco, Chicago (Kim Foxx) NY and Philly. Safety makes one freer, for sure. Ease of starting a business is freedom. Not being censured is freedom.

scenes

@8:10pm

Ukraine would indicate that white ethnostates are no guarantee, top of the list is all ex-English colonies plus a swathe of Western Europe. Protestantism (minus Ireland) as common thread? Maybe that's it.

Freedom seems kind of loosely defined in those lists, but no biggie. I don't know what the Romans (or a goldrush-era miner) would make of one of our local planning commissions or drug police, but the modern West constrains behaviors in a million ways.

Gregory

Denmark has abandoned mask mandates.

Bill Tozer

Does this topic not evolve around central control? Central control is the anthesis to our Constitution. Yes, there are clearly defined Constitutional duties (and prohibitions) on the Federal government’s role in our Republic….just to beat the reader to the punch insinuating that I don’t believe in Federal Government or want to tear it down. With that disclaimer out of the way…..

Take current voting issues as an example. The Feds, through the DOJ, cannot mandate to each state how to run their voting apparatus. That duty is left to the states. Sure, we have the 15 sections of the Voting Rights Act to insure no one is discriminated against or barred from voting, which is the Federal Government’s role as enacted by Congress and signed by a sitting President. That is a safeguard.

Where the Lefties and The Woke get it wrong is the states decide on how to run elections and from the local jurisdictions up to the state level, the people tell the Federal government what they want and what the various states decide. It is bottom up, NOT top down.
Parlay the above paragraph into any current contentious issue that comes to mind. The folks in each state decide how to run things and then, if consensus, the collective states tell Washington DC what they desire and what they want and how they wish to run things. In turn, the representatives from the states on Capitol Hill hear what ‘the people’ want and laws are enacted. Central control outside of defined role of the Presidency is prohibited. Where the Constitution is silent, the states have authority.

The ants mysteriously and uniformly move as an army, but have no generals. Each ant’s role comes from not from edicts, but from within.

scenes

"Denmark has abandoned mask mandates."

Didn't they dump any restrictions? You'd think that the whole situation would be an epidemiologist's dream, what with a bunch of semi-similar countries with different rule sets.

I wonder if the county ladies in Denmark yell at anyone coming into their lair wearing a mask. Some things never change.

If occurred to me that since Mr. Paul is a universal healthcare expert, perhaps he could compare and contrast the systems in, say, the UK and Switzerland without resorting to posting links. The relationship between freedom (the topic) and providing healthcare is kind of a loose one, but I think that people have defined freedom as 'quality of life'. A small electrical charge to a brain pleasure center appears to be the ultimate freedom I guess.

Bill Tozer

Massive Truck Convoy Crosses Canada To Protest Vaccine Mandates. It May Be Longest Truck Convoy Ever Recorded.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/massive-truck-convoy-crosses-canada-to-protest-vaccine-mandates-it-may-be-longest-truck-convoy-ever-recorded
——————-
MASKS TODAY, MASKS TOMORROW, MASKS FOREVER!

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/masks-today-masks-tomorrow-masks-forever-3.php

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/masks-today-masks-tomorrow-masks-forever-3.php


Bill Tozer

‘Serious Cause For Alarm’: U.S. Economy Plunges Under Biden To All Time Low In Heritage ‘Index Of Economic Freedom’

https://www.dailywire.com/news/serious-cause-for-alarm-u-s-economy-plunges-under-biden-to-all-time-low-in-heritage-index-of-economic-freedom

George Rebane

re BillT 1147am - I posted Mr Tozer's link as part of an addendum to 'DHS ratchets free speech'.

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