« Scattershots – 1may22 | Main | Sandbox – 3may22 »

03 May 2022

Comments

Scott O

Daily Kos provides the usual amusement although just when you think they can't ratchet up the hysteria to eleven, they go to fifteen.
"The Supreme Court has gone totally rogue, and promises worse" the headline screams!
That's right, folks - not just 'rogue' but 'totally rogue'. As in 'totally, dude!'
Say it in a deep, dark voice - "and promises worse"
Off the rails? Hell, these people are off the planet.

"They’ve already eviscerated voting rights. All our other rights are going to start falling like dominoes now. This McConnell- and Trump-packed court is drunk on power and set to do what hard-right activists have been aiming to do for decades: cement the hard-right minority rule across the nation.
That’s the kind of single-minded ruthlessness we need to see from Democrats. So far, it’s missing."

So you see this is not really about abortion, it's just the Dems freaking out about not having power.
Abortion has always been their numero uno issue to go to when the base needs firing up. This seems to be the all-encompassing blanket that smothers every other issue of concern to the voters. It's the big desperate move ahead of the mid-terms.

Bill Tozer

Scott O
This morning after headline surfing, I saw a clip of Mark Levine already up and going. Definity worth catching a couple of minutes of his morning after reaction.

https://fb.watch/cN3vZHrO32/

scenes

" That’s the kind of single-minded ruthlessness we need to see from Democrats. So far, it’s missing."

Cool. It'd be like the Team Blue version of DarkMAGA.

Don Bessee

It would appear the wokesters want to intimidate the court, but it won't help. Electorally it will be popular in red states and drama in the blue sates so its a wash that both sides will raise big bucks off. Bottom line most folks are not ok with late term abortion. -

while abortion advocates suggest that America is a pro-abortion nation, when the extreme rhetoric and exaggerations are stripped away, Americans substantively agree with the Mississippi abortion law at issue in Dobbs, which bans most elective abortion after 15 weeks.

A 2021 Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll found that "65% said abortion should usually be illegal in the second trimester [after 12 weeks], and 80% said that about the third trimester [after 24 weeks]."

In other words, when the so-called "controversial" Mississippi law is stripped down to brass tax and bare bones, the American public expresses support.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/roe-wade-abortion-supreme-court-leak-kayleigh-mcenany?obOrigUrl=true&ucid=KJad0NPt

;-)

Gregory

Ruthless?

I do wonder where Ruth is.

There is much speculation the leak is courtesy a pissed-off clerk, but I'd not dismiss the possibility the perp is a pissed-off wise-assed Latina justice.

Bill Tozer

If nothing else, the reaction to the leaked draft has put to rest for the moment the age old question, “What is a woman?”

Hmm. I never heard the term “birthing people” once since the recent leak. Odd.

Bill Tozer

Don B @ 8:33 pm

“A 2021 Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll found that "65% said abortion should usually be illegal in the second trimester [after 12 weeks], and 80% said that about the third trimester [after 24 weeks]."

That is pretty much Punchy’s position. First trimester, 12-13 weeks. Mainstream, if you will.

scenes

re: Gregory@5:40AM

Maybe someone at Politico can leak who the leaker was. Wheels within wheels.

I expect lotsa signs held by proud people who identify as female, righteous anger, obsequious 'feminist' men, special outrage from postmenopausal birthing people. Some sort of incoherent talking points about coat hangers and The Handmaid's Tale, Dem politicians using it to get another term in office, just another day in Crazytown...all because the feds (or at least the federal courts) might try to wiggle their way out of the matter.

No doubt the Blue States will all push for abortion up to the second the baby breathes, no doctor's or parental permission required, paid for by taxpayers including the taxi ride to the clinic. It's always kind of arbitrary at what point a child is a child so maybe exposure on the rocks outside of town might be part of the package if you really don't want an infant.

A thinking person would view this as an opportunity. By pushing the issue to the states, you can apply more political pressure, and likely end up with Oregon-style law in a lot of places.

Gregory

I am intrigued at all the shrill calls for unfettered reproductive care for women, when the calls are really for anti-reproductive care. Make it dead, get it out.

scenes

Generally, I'd say that any medical or sanitary care that can be purely assigned to a birthing person body is called out to be both free and unrestricted. Maybe it's just a power play by a population who feel that they've always had a lack of influence. In any case, the outrage must provide an endorphin rush and there's a joy in being part of a mob.

You know, after watching the West's neo-liberalcons feel the need to crush the Russians rather than negotiate, nuclear war be-damned, and articles like this:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/04/29/birthing-person-midwife-students-taught-how-to-deliver-babies-through-male-genitalia/

I mostly just feel my inner nihilist expand to suit the situation. Letting Steve or Psul run the world provides endless opportunities for both fun and mockery and honestly we're about due for a Big Reset in any case.

Let the Crazy flow!

Barry Pruett

MY BODY MY CHOICE but you have to get a shitty vaccine and like it
WE ARE FOR DEMOCRACY but we don't want the people voting on reasonable abortion restrictions
BLACK LIVES MATTER but only if you are a progressive black and not a conservative "Uncle Tom"
REPUBLICANS WANT TO GET RID OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE but don't look at Clarence Thomas' white wife

If you believe any of the items in ALL CAPS above, you might be a clown. LOL

Bill Tozer

Well, the leak gives the Dems something to run on besides inflation, gas prices, faltering economy, Ukraine, and everything in between consenting Biden’s record.

‘Supreme Court leak is Democrats’ dirty May surprise for 2022 midterms’

https://nypost.com/2022/05/03/democrats-dirty-supreme-may-surprise/

Biden made another slip up. Dementia Joe does Roe:

“He also referred in his remarks to the baby in the womb as a “child,” a term abortion supporters generally avoid. “The idea that we’re going to make the judgment that is going to say that no one can make the judgment to choose to abort a child based on a decision by the Supreme Court, I think, goes way overboard,” Biden said.”

scenes

I figger when the marchers are done on Broad St., they can head on over to Denmark.

Per that unending fount of knowledge, Wikipedia:

Law involving Dobbs v Jackson:
"In March 2018, the state of Mississippi passed the Gestational Age Act, which banned any abortion operation after the first 15 weeks of pregnancy, with exceptions for medical emergencies or severe fetal abnormality, but did not include any exceptions for cases of rape or incest. "

Abortion law in Denmark:
"Abortion in Denmark was fully legalized on 1 October 1973,[1] allowing the procedure to be done on-demand if a woman's pregnancy has not exceeded its 12th week. Under Danish law, the patient must be over the age of 18 to decide on an abortion alone; parental consent is required for minors, except in special circumstances. An abortion can be performed after 12 weeks if the woman's life or health are in danger. A woman may also be granted an authorization to abort after 12 weeks if certain circumstances are proved to be present (such as poor socioeconomic condition of the woman, risk of birth defects in the baby, the pregnancy being the result of rape, or mental health risk to mother)"

Maybe the marchers would be mollified if Mississippi allowed a break for poor people and rapes. Of course, the pro-life folks could sneak in the 12 week cutoff.

Barry Wade Pruett

The Broad Street Clown Show. These people were marching with pink Planned Parenthood signs already!? Where did they get them? "Hey honey! We are going to a pro-baby killing demonstration in Nevada City! Grab all of our Planned Parenthood gear, and let's go. The Planned Parenthood gear in the box in the garage between the BLM stuff and my vagina hat. Oh yeah. Grab my vagina hat too!" Not serious people.

Gregory

I'd wager only about 15% of the BROAD street marchers were of a gender and an age to be realistically covered by any permissive abortion law.

Scott O

Here's another person who apparently has no idea what Roe v Wade is all about:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10782537/Biden-calls-MAGA-extreme-political-organization-American-history.html
"...suggests they'll ban LGBT children from classrooms if Roe v. Wade is overturned"
Wut??!!
Next he'll re-start his rant about the Rs putting blacks back in chains.

scenes

re: Gregory@2:23PM

I think they need more of a taste for the dramatic.

https://twitter.com/Sadenochill/status/1521692870331166721

Paul Emery

I wasn't there Gregory, you must have been to have the information. What ages are you suggesting the marchers were based on your observations ?

Gregory

Gee, punchy... the number of women older than 50 was significant. It appeared to be the usual suspects turning out for a leftist protest.

So, you think there is a fundamental constitutional right for a woman to kill her baby in utero, hidden in the text where no one saw it for two centuries?

Don Bessee

Not an issue thats going to help stave off the mid-term blood bath -

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/04/poll-plurality-of-likely-voters-support-overturning-roe-v-wade/

;-)

Bill Tozer

Don B.

The biggest women's parade and rally of the year, year after year, has been the Right To Life March in DC…year after year, the biggest story ne’er told, year after year. When I last checked about a dozen years ago, NOW had a membership of 200,000 and the United Christian Women or some organization with a like sounding name was 1.4 million. The largest woman’s organization in America. NOW got all the limelight and now our women are going on the warpath. Mercy. When Momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody going to be happy. Its the mom crowd that is up in arms and the Dems positioned themselves between Momma Bear and her adorable vulnerable cubs.

All the Dems have are educated upper middle class black women and limousine liberals and assorted other meatheads and that’s all they got. They don’t have the numbers, especially after peeling away half of the youth vote…ouch. Maybe the leaked first draft will get them to turn out….it’s there Hail Mary to savage what they can at the primaries……

I see Obama and Obama’s people calling the shots now.

Paul Emery

Gregory

How did you know the "the number of women older than 50 was significant." What was your source of that information? Were you there?

Roe v Wade v Dodd determined that there was that fundamental constitutional right and it was determined that it was "settled law" in many subsequent decisions. The current Supreme Court apparently disagrees with those decisions but we don't know for sure yet.

Here's some info into how at least one nominee changed his position from what he said he believed during his approval hearings.

"In his hearings, Kavanaugh was under great pressure on this issue, especially given how tight the vote was at the time. He needed Collins. When asked about Roe, he repeatedly described it as “precedent on precedent” and “settled as precedent,” citing other decisions that affirmed it, including Planned Parenthood v. Casey. He said a decision by the court to overturn precedent should be rare and that a majority of the court disagreeing with a prior decision should not be enough to overturn it. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/03/trump-justices-roe-collins/

Don Bessee

The ponytail of ignorance is flying that flag high today, Ruth Bader Ginsburg said roe was a bad decision that did not have grounding in the constitution. It's a state issue and will be again.
Wishing it was not so does not make it not so.

;-)

Don Bessee

The ponytail of ignorance throws out were you there when he himself admitted he was not. LOL
We have these computer thingys that show pictures and there are a ton out there, i know dont believe our lying eyes in the best lefty style.

;-)

Paul Emery


Don

I was not there and I didn't make the generalizations that Gregory did who was also not there. I was just wondering what factual information he used to make his statement if it were truth.

Gregory

All the Grey haired women, punch... it's a dead giveaway. Past childbearing years.

The 15%... that was my *estimate*... do you know what that means?

Bill Tozer

The woman in the Union article (2nd pic down, up front greenish overcoat with unbuttoned bottom button and mouth agape……well, when I saw her, Helen Ready appeared before me in the e-z chair and belted out, “I am woman, hear me roar.” Then gone in a flash.

How many of the Gray Brigade have had hysterectomies? Which one is Punchy’s sweetie that brings him a sandwich and water while he is standing in the sweltering Nov sun in a long polling line? All in all, they all looked pretty healthy for their age. Good living.

It’s just not Roe that reads like a Washington Compost op-ed. The ruling for Roe was based on the due process clause of the 14th Amendment……”the Court decided that this right to privacy extends to a woman's control over a pregnancy.”

Hey Punch. What does one of those post-menstrual friends of yours tastes like? A: Depends.

Bill Tozer

‘The Supreme Court’s integrity demands its leaker be prosecuted — and the decision released now’
By Andrew C. McCarthy

“It is even more clearly applicable to court cases — we don’t call it obstruction of justice for nothing.”

https://nypost.com/2022/05/03/the-supreme-courts-integrity-demands-its-leaker-be-prosecuted/

Has anyone hear of the Left screaming for an immediate Congressional investigation into catching the leaker, a true threat to our democracy? Me neither.

Paul Emery

So Gregory you based uyour estimate solely on one picture in the Union. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong?

Paul Emery


Once again Bill shows that he doesn't have the intelligence to respond without gross personal attacks. Whatever. I'm sure any women who read this blog will be offended as they should be.

Gregory

"So Gregory you based uyour estimate solely on one picture in the Union. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong?"

No, Punch, I based my estimate on all the pictures in The Union.

Scott O

Psul - "I'm sure any women who read this blog will be offended as they should be."
Says the guy who proudly voted for the perv.
Psul is now man-splaining to you wimmins as to how and when you should feel offended.
Guess you better obey!

Paul Emery


Thanks for the "correction" Gregory.

Gregory

What we obviously need is a constitutional amendment to make the Constitution clear and unambiguous. Here's a first pass:

"A woman's right to choose her anti-reproductive health care, being necessary to her self ownership, the right of women to have an abortion shall not be infringed".

A winner?

Bill Tozer

Gregory @ 2:20 pm

“the right of women to have an abortion shall not be infringed".

Oh, we just want common sense abortion laws….just like the lefties saying they want common-sense gun laws. Winner!

Clarance Thomas to Joe Biden: “Hello Joe, it’s been a long time.”

Gregory

toes 312p

How could it be misinterpreted? "the right of women to have an abortion shall not be infringed". Period!

;)

Scott O

Gregory 3:16 - Why just women? What happened to equal rights?
And -
What's a 'woman'?
"Period"??!!
Gregory - OMG, dude - Psul gonna be on your ass for that crack.

George Rebane

Gregory 220pm - Sounds about right to me. Now to get that amendment passed.

scenes

"A birthing person's or birthing furry's right to choose she/her anti-reproductive health care, being necessary to she/her self/them ownership, the right of a birthing person or birthing furry to have an abortion shall not be infringed".

Bill Tozer

Scott @ 5:08 pm.

“Gregory - OMG, dude - Psul gonna be on your ass for that crack.”

Crack? Really Scott.

OMG, dude - Psul gonna be on your ass for that crack.

scenes

" OMG, dude - Psul gonna be on your ass for that crack. "

Plumbers need love too.

scenes

Just because all the maniacs make me laugh.

"At the #Seattle pro-abortion protest on Tuesday, two activists were so infuriated at street preachers that they began attacking people on their own side, including a peacekeeper & several women. One of the assailants grabbed a sign from a fellow protester & hit her on the head."

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1522426819722772480

Don Bessee

This kind of crosses into the lying sacks of shit thread -

I learned things this week… that are pretty basic things that I did not know about abortion. Like in Europe, the modern countries of Europe are way more restrictive than we are or what they're even proposing!" Maher exclaimed. "If you are pro-choice, you would like it a lot less in Germany, and Italy, and France, and Spain, and Switzerland. Did you know that? I didn't know that."

"I learned most people who are pro-life are women. I did not know that. Most abortions are from… mothers, people who have a kid… And I thought this was interesting, most abortions now — even when you go to a clinic are done with the pill. The pill. And pills are easy to get in America," Maher continued. "So, you know, for the people who say we're going back to 1973, we're not. That's just factually inaccurate."

"There's got to be a point at which we say this is a human being capable of living outside the womb where maybe we don't — we don't do that," Tafoya said. "I think that's what you see a lot of in Europe and a lot of people are kind of settling around, ‘Okay, 15 weeks maybe.’"

Maher then railed against those who say Roe v. Wade is "settled law."

"This whole bulls--- argument about, ‘Well, it’s settled law.’ So was segregation. Plessy vs. Ferguson was ‘settled law’ in 1896 and thank God somebody said let's unsettle it. So that's a bulls--- argument. It's what you think,"

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-roe-v-wade-abortion-scotus

;-)

scenes

lol. Wow, there sure is a lot of arguin' going on at The Union.

Whack on 'Download PDF' here:

https://www.theadvocate.com/pdf_aa823250-cb32-11ec-a658-13a2d53d5c3e.html

...and a person can read the document that absolutely no marchers or arguers have read. Probably best to stick to the facts of the matter but that never stops anyone.

Given the Surveillance State growing up around us, it's funny to see abortion-oriented court decisions tied up into 'privacy' arguments. Perhaps the word means something different in legal circles.

I suppose that if birthing people want Oregon-style rules (rather than Denmark) the thing to do is to start lobbying state legislatures. It even makes sense given the wide latitude that appears to be at work here. This is way outside of my wheelhouse, perhaps it exists already, but I would think that the Supreme Court's role in any of this would tend to be restrictive, by more closely defining protectable human life.

Bill Tozer

Democrats hide abortion bill radical roots

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/democrats-hide-abortion-bill-radical-roots

Bill Tozer

‘The Angry, Vindictive Left Is Here To Stay And Their Reaction To The SCOTUS Leak ‘Proves

Winning the White House and taking full control of Congress didn’t assuage the left’s resentment. It made it worse.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/05/10/the-angry-vindictive-left-is-here-to-stay-and-their-reaction-to-the-scotus-leak-proves-it/

Paul Emery

Well one thing for sure the Dems will jump on this in the midterms with outlawing abortion being a very unpopular item amongst American voters. What a gift to the Dems this is. From Pew Research:

"Today, a 61% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases."

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/13/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases-2/

Barry Wade Pruett

Please explain how abortion is outlawed. Your poll fails to consider any nuance. Even pro-abortion folks (most of them) favor some limitations. Only a very small section of the population supports abortion at 40 weeks while a strong majority may support choice prior to say 10 weeks. Most people see shades of gray and not black and white as the poll you cited suggests.

Gregory

So Punch, you think a bambino ready to be born should be subject to their momma's whim and be dismembered before a live birth?

A real shame. Baby murderer!

George Rebane

BarryP 1213pm - Unfortunately, nuance is a bridge too far for almost all progressives, and also PaulE, as he has demonstrated here for years. That is a prime contributor to the Dems' ability to sell their constituents all kinds of BS propositions - nationwide outlawing of abortion is one of them, ask Paul.

Paul Emery

I don't believe that Gregory. I believe 16-20 weeks is enough time for a woman to make a thoughtful decision except in situations where a woman's health is in serious jeopardy or the baby is no longer capable of sustaining life.


Paul Emery

Barry

Look at Oklahoma for an example of what can happen. In that state a woman has no rights to an abortion.

"Clinics have already ceased providing abortions in Oklahoma since the governor signed into law HB 4327 in May.

That law bans abortions from the point of fertilization with limited exceptions by allowing private citizens to sue anyone who performs an abortion, or “aids or abets” someone in getting an abortion."

Paul Emery

George

Let me ask you as a Conservative what right does the GOVERNMENT have to interfere with the decision a woman may make concerning her body? Is that "right" explicit and defined in the Constitution?

Gregory

Punchy, what right does the GOVERNMENT have to keep parents from strangling their children?

The baby isn't a part of a woman's body, Punch. I thought you knew that.

Paul Emery

Gregory


That is your opinion Gregory. I contend the woman has the right to determine that.
Can you show me a legal federal decision that confirms that?

Barry Pruett

“Let me ask you as a Conservative what right does the GOVERNMENT have to interfere with the decision a woman may make concerning her body? Is that "right" explicit and defined in the Constitution?”

Your question is unclear and has faulty premises. Which government? A baby is not her “body.” There are two bodies, two minds, two hearts, two distinct people. Where are you finding this “right?” Nuance. You can’t just paint with that broad brush and expect intelligent responses.

George Rebane

PaulE 1257p - First, the ruling was on the interpretation of what the Constitution says about abortion rights (hint: nothing). Second, the Constitution is a restrictive document on federal powers viz states and individual rights. Third, I agree with Gregory's 120p as I try to make clear in the above figure first used in my 2012 piece 'Abortion and the Two Bodies Problem'.
https://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/10/abortion-and-the-two-bodies-problem.html

Paul Emery


So George since you are saying that a woman has no say in what she can do with her body-unborn child that she possesses. Are you saying the GOVERNMENT then represents the rights of the unborn? How does that suit you as a Conservative?

Gregory

The "baby" has DNA sequencing different from Mom. Half is from the momma unit, half from the daddy unit.

To the point that a body part from Baby isn't transplant-able into Mom.

Different people, different DNA.

Punchy, I thought you knew this stuff. No?

Ever see the movie Prometheus? Actress Noomi Rapace has an alien removed from her. Nasty critter!

Barry Pruett

The federal government has no business conferring rights. Rights are inherent and endowed by nature. As of today the federal government is out of the picture. Such decisions will be made regionally based upon the majority of folks in such region. I don’t get why progressives are tripping out. Nothing changed in most states. Who are you (a resident of California) to tell Hoosiers how to deal with abortion? The only place in our system authorized to deal with this issue is the states. I don’t even think that Congress can legislate constitutionally. Congress may not even have the authority in the constitution.

Paul Emery


So Gregory a one month fetus has rights that are enforced by the govrnment.

Gregory

"It's like an alien meat cake"
https://whyy.org/segments/the-placenta-went-viral-and-protomammals-were-born/

"“The placenta is essentially a fascinating organ because it allows for two human beings that are genetically very different. Because half of the fetus is maternal, but the other half is paternal, and yet the pregnancy can go on for nine months without the mom’s body destroying it,” Barroeta said. “And that, from an immune standpoint, is fascinating, because if you were to receive a piece of someone else and insert that under your skin, that would not last there for three days, your body will actively reject it.”

So the placenta has to be the most incredible gatekeeper. It has to let oxygen and nutrients get to the baby, and it has to let carbon dioxide and waste get out. For example, medicines can get through, protective antibodies can get through. But if the mother and baby ever actually touched, or if any blood got through, the mother’s immune system would immediately kill the baby.

Coolahan kept researching. She stumbled across a paper by Ed Chuong, who researches molecular cellular developmental biology at Biofrontiers Institute in Colorado. According to Chuong, “The placenta we think of as a defining characteristic of live-bearing mammals … primates, rodents, dogs, cats, etc.,” is estimated to have evolved about 150 million to 200 million years ago. Before that, if you wanted to reproduce, you had to lay eggs."

In other words, the placenta belongs to the baby.

Paul Emery


Barry, as an attorney what is your take on this? I understand they possibly man be able even to sue someone in another State.


"Texas’ abortion law, passed last year as Senate Bill 8, empowers private citizens to sue anyone who “aids or abets” an abortion after about six weeks of pregnancy.

The law is extremely broad — anyone, regardless of where they live or whether they have a connection to the person obtaining an abortion, can bring a lawsuit against anyone who helps someone obtain an abortion in virtually any way."

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/03/24/texas-abortion-law-legal-challenges/

Barry Pruett

I think the Supreme Court did the right thing in getting rid of Roe and Casey. Those decisions represent some of the worst judicial activism since Dred Scott. They were ill thought out and a complete aberration in constitutional law. Frankly, I don’t care what happens now. I’ll leave that up to the individual states to figure out how they want to deal with the balancing between the lives of two distinct individuals. Like the justices of the Supreme Court who decided to Roe and Casey. I am only a lawyer and not an ethicist or a legislative body which is designed to determine such balancing.

The comments to this entry are closed.